Inspired by comments on "Aviation by MMM":
Quote from: MultiMillionMiler on January 03, 2023, 02:02:32 PM
I think Atomic clocks are a scam. You can't measure billionths of a second.
Quote from: abefroman329 on January 03, 2023, 03:13:28 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on January 03, 2023, 02:47:17 PM
Quote from: kphoger on January 03, 2023, 02:46:18 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on January 03, 2023, 02:11:23 PM
What else do you think are scams?
The lunar landing, radon, autism, farsightedness, the Exodus, and the Chicago—Kansas City Expressway. :hmmm:
Just one for me:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/652193852063501/?ref=share&mibextid=S66gvF
Can we make this it's own thread?
My contribution: MLMs. Every single one.
What else do you think are scams?
Cryptocurrency and NFTs in their entirety.
Those "You've made the 5 billionth Google search" pop up's that trick you into thinking you won a gift card or something.
Quote from: 1 on January 06, 2023, 08:21:47 AM
Cryptocurrency and NFTs in their entirety.
Amen. Technological beanie babies.
NFTs/crypto are definitely scams. Scams you could get lucky with, but scams nonetheless. See the FTX fiasco. I'm sure they aren't the only one.
Yearly sports video games, like Madden, FIFA, 2K games, F1, etc. There's not enough time in a year for developers to add enough content to justify another $60 or $70 per year just for fans to get the latest teams and rosters.
If it were all up to me, I'd charge significantly less money per year for each game, maybe $30, $40 at most. If it's a brand new game, made from the ground up for that season, ok, charge full price.
Another option would be to provide players of the previous year's game an upgrade path. Maybe 50% of the price of next year's game, and yes, this would carry over to the following year too. I know this won't happen, but I did say if it were completely up to me.
MMM and P13 posts.
Oh wait. That should go in the "What do you think are spams?" change-one-letter thread.
55 mph speed limits on long island.
https://www.facebook.com/letsrideIL?mibextid=LQQJ4d
https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=13802
Quote from: JayhawkCO on January 06, 2023, 09:10:51 AM
Quote from: 1 on January 06, 2023, 08:21:47 AM
Cryptocurrency and NFTs in their entirety.
Amen. Technological beanie babies.
I've always thought of 'cryptocurrency' as being the modern day investment equivalent of tulip bulbs a few centuries ago.
Mike
Let's see there's....
fake "bid" sites for consumer products (not like eBay, I'm talking about the ones you see advertised on TV)
essential oils
ambulance chasing lawyer ads for class action lawsuits (NO, tylanol didn't give your kid autism!)
testosterone supplements (Sorry, Frank Thomas.)
Airborne
NFT's for sure, especially ones with some kind of celebrity connection.
the entire diamond jewelry industry
credit scores
online colleges
reverse mortgages
the lottery
chiropractors
anything endorsed by Joe Rogan
charities that spend a lot of money buying TV ads
anything endorsed by a certain disgraced President
most vitamins
anything endorsed by Tom Brady
every "diet"
the gluten free label, especially when they put it on shit that can't possibly have wheat protein in it (Wow, gluten free eggs!)
same for "non-GMO"
Amway
CBD
home security systems
the tax collection industry
every religion
built-in obsolescence
sports gambling
casino gambling
the lawn care industry
...
There are so many scams, how much time you got?
Your Amazon Account Credit Card Has Ecpired. Please reknew Uour Amazon Account Credit Card So Your Curreent Purchase of Pure Gold iPhone 13 Can Proceed To Bee Shipped. Thank You. Your Personnel Amazon Account Repesentative.
"Your Icloud account is hacked!" I got those scam calls and I never owned an Apple Account however if you have an apple device you easily fall for it at first.
Quote from: bing101 on January 06, 2023, 12:21:27 PM
"Your Icloud account is hacked!"
They simply got the verb tense wrong - they meant to say "will be". Click here, and it will be hacked.
Quote from: triplemultiplex on January 06, 2023, 12:03:43 PM
Let's see there's....
the gluten free label, especially when they put it on shit that can't possibly have wheat protein in it (Wow, gluten free eggs!)
https://gfdwater.com/ (https://gfdwater.com/)
Quote from: kirbykart on January 06, 2023, 02:38:59 PM
Quote from: triplemultiplex on January 06, 2023, 12:03:43 PM
Let's see there's....
the gluten free label, especially when they put it on shit that can't possibly have wheat protein in it (Wow, gluten free eggs!)
https://gfdwater.com/ (https://gfdwater.com/)
I mean, Tito's made all of its money by advertising that it was gluten free, as if all liquors* weren't gluten free.
*In theory, in things like flavored vodka, the flavoring additive could have gluten, but the vodka itself prior to being manipulated was 100% gluten fee.
I also found this: https://dairycarrie.com/2014/04/29/are-grocery-stores-making-people-dumb/ (https://dairycarrie.com/2014/04/29/are-grocery-stores-making-people-dumb/)
Yes, gluten free green beans! Who woulda thought?
extended warranties, especially automobile warranties.
any "service" called from an unknown number.
When someone texts you looking for another person. It's not a wrong text text sent to you by accident, but someone trying to engage you to interact with them to get money out of you.
Sadly most are Filipino numbers.
Do not respond! Block it immediately!
Quote from: roadman65 on January 06, 2023, 04:29:38 PM
When someone texts you looking for another person. It's not a wrong text text sent to you by accident, but someone trying to engage you to interact with them to get money out of you.
Sadly most are Filipino numbers.
Do not respond! Block it immediately!
I like engaging. It's kinda fun. I just start getting real creepy and eventually they leave me alone.
Re: Gluten free
Let's not forget all the items nearly 100% sugar being labeled "Fat-Free"
I feel bad for all the kids from lunatic families who only feed them "gluten free" stuff. I bet they protest GMOs though, despite them being a great source of Vitamin A.
Organized religion
Quote from: skluth on January 06, 2023, 05:04:34 PM
Re: Gluten free
Let's not forget all the items nearly 100% sugar being labeled "Fat-Free"
Fun fact: Tic Tacs are labeled sugar free despite being almost 100% sugar due to their extremely small serving size allowing such a label per FDA rules.
Capitalism.
A good example from the other thread:
Quote from: kernals12 on January 06, 2023, 06:45:28 PM
Quote from: Road Hog on January 05, 2023, 09:17:22 PM
I counted 64 spokes on the tire in the OP (yes, I had that much free time), which means 256 total spokes on a four-wheeled vehicle.
If the average passenger car weighs 4,000 pounds, and 8 spokes at a time per tire are supporting the car's weight, each spoke would have to support 125 pounds without deforming while parked for long periods of time. Obviously more with SUVs, and way more still with fully-laden 18-wheelers. That's a lot of titanium and it ain't cheap.
Not if these guys have anything to say about it
https://iperionx.com/
Quote from: JayhawkCO on January 06, 2023, 02:41:12 PM
Quote from: kirbykart on January 06, 2023, 02:38:59 PM
Quote from: triplemultiplex on January 06, 2023, 12:03:43 PM
Let's see there's....
the gluten free label, especially when they put it on shit that can't possibly have wheat protein in it (Wow, gluten free eggs!)
https://gfdwater.com/ (https://gfdwater.com/)
I mean, Tito's made all of its money by advertising that it was gluten free, as if all liquors* weren't gluten free.
*In theory, in things like flavored vodka, the flavoring additive could have gluten, but the vodka itself prior to being manipulated was 100% gluten fee.
(https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/free.png)
Quote from: mgk920 on January 06, 2023, 11:13:02 AM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on January 06, 2023, 09:10:51 AM
Quote from: 1 on January 06, 2023, 08:21:47 AM
Cryptocurrency and NFTs in their entirety.
Amen. Technological beanie babies.
I've always thought of 'cryptocurrency' as being the modern day investment equivalent of tulip bulbs a few centuries ago.
Mike
Crypto has its niche, and well supported by goods in that area. Drugs, illegal weapon, slavery, extortion, blackmail etc are a real sector of economy, probably the healthiest industry business wise in US these days.
Congress. :)
High-Priority Corridors
98% of robocalls
The Red Sox signing of Pablo Sandoval
The building of CT 11 and saying "it'll be finished soon" .
Chiropractors
Quote from: hbelkins on January 06, 2023, 08:55:32 PM
Chiropractors
Heh. Some are. But, I've found that this is a common belief held in Appalachia. My mother eventually came around. :D
Quote from: tigerwings on January 06, 2023, 05:45:04 PM
Organized religion
I kinda figured this would come up sooner or later by someone (although, if we're being honest, most of them are).
Quote from: Scott5114 on January 06, 2023, 06:11:18 PM
Capitalism.
Perfect post. Should go in the favorite forum quotes thread.
Quote from: MultiMillionMiler on January 06, 2023, 09:56:05 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on January 06, 2023, 06:11:18 PM
Capitalism.
Perfect post. Should go in the favorite forum quotes thread.
Says the guy with 29k cash on hand who doesn't work.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on January 06, 2023, 10:03:48 PM
Quote from: MultiMillionMiler on January 06, 2023, 09:56:05 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on January 06, 2023, 06:11:18 PM
Capitalism.
Perfect post. Should go in the favorite forum quotes thread.
Says the guy with 29k cash on hand who doesn't work.
46,000 if you count my college account, which I didn't need much of, but believe me that's nothing with today's inflation. In my opinion, people with less worthy sources of income, like multimillionaire tik tok influencers should be taxed massively, such as 60 or 75%, and use that money to fund higher minimum wage and medical research.
Quote from: MultiMillionMiler on January 06, 2023, 10:15:26 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on January 06, 2023, 10:03:48 PM
Quote from: MultiMillionMiler on January 06, 2023, 09:56:05 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on January 06, 2023, 06:11:18 PM
Capitalism.
Perfect post. Should go in the favorite forum quotes thread.
Says the guy with 29k cash on hand who doesn't work.
46,000 if you count my college account, which I didn't need much of, but believe me that's nothing with today's inflation. In my opinion, people with less worthy sources of income, like multimillionaire tik tok influencers should be taxed massively, such as 60 or 75%, and use that money to fund higher minimum wage and medical research.
And this is helping your stance on not liking Capitalism how?
I do have it a little better than alot of people, but that's doesn't mean Capitalism in general is fair. I have empathy. I give up to $5, occasionally $20 to homeless people on the streets. I recently donated $40+ to a local animal shelter. When I start having income I will give more to other causes as well.
Quote from: MultiMillionMiler on January 06, 2023, 10:19:37 PM
I do have it a little better than alot of people, but that's doesn't mean Capitalism in general is fair. I have empathy. I give up to $5, occasionally $20 to homeless people on the streets. I recently donated $40+ to a local animal shelter. When I start having income I will give more to other causes as well.
How about...
...
I know it's a strange concept....
....
But no, I really mean that....
.....
yes, it is embarrassing....
.....
working 40+ hours a week as most of people on this forum?
Quote from: Rothman on January 06, 2023, 09:04:23 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on January 06, 2023, 08:55:32 PM
Chiropractors
Heh. Some are. But, I've found that this is a common belief held in Appalachia. My mother eventually came around. :D
What are the alternatives?
- Surgery that may not be affordable nor covered.
- Addiction to medications; increasing dosage or switching to stronger meds with harsher side effects.
- Dealing with unmanageable pain.
- I dunno...acupuncture?
I don't get all the chiro-hate, it's not as if the alternatives are anything other than suboptimal solutions. The first is ideal if it's covered and effective but the others (including chiropractic help) is just substituting one issue for another.
Quote from: formulanone on January 07, 2023, 09:37:18 AM
Quote from: Rothman on January 06, 2023, 09:04:23 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on January 06, 2023, 08:55:32 PM
Chiropractors
Heh. Some are. But, I've found that this is a common belief held in Appalachia. My mother eventually came around. :D
What are the alternatives?
- Surgery that may not be affordable nor covered.
- Addiction to medications; increasing dosage or switching to stronger meds with harsher side effects.
- Dealing with unmanageable pain.
- I dunno...acupuncture?
I don't get all the chiro-hate, it's not as if the alternatives are anything other than suboptimal solutions.
Well, there were chiropractors when I lived in CA that told my friends that they could cure diabetes, so chiroquackery does exist out there.
Quote from: Rothman on January 07, 2023, 09:38:44 AM
Quote from: formulanone on January 07, 2023, 09:37:18 AM
Quote from: Rothman on January 06, 2023, 09:04:23 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on January 06, 2023, 08:55:32 PM
Chiropractors
Heh. Some are. But, I've found that this is a common belief held in Appalachia. My mother eventually came around. :D
What are the alternatives?
- Surgery that may not be affordable nor covered.
- Addiction to medications; increasing dosage or switching to stronger meds with harsher side effects.
- Dealing with unmanageable pain.
- I dunno...acupuncture?
I don't get all the chiro-hate, it's not as if the alternatives are anything other than suboptimal solutions.v
Well, there were chiropractors when I lived in CA that told my friends that they could cure diabetes, so chiroquackery does exist out there.
That's just evil. I had a relative who wound up in a self-help cult that believed you could permanently transcend illnesses through stubborn willpower. That's well and good if you just stubbed your toe, or stranded alone in a forest, but a bit dangerous for just about any other situation.
The only experience I've heard was for people who had back pain from accidents and they said it made them feel good for a day or two, but usually necessitated scheduled visits for years.
Quote from: jp the roadgeek on January 06, 2023, 08:45:35 PM
The Red Sox signing of Pablo Sandoval
The whole thing are subsets of it? My favorite out of John Henry (all time, not just regarding the signing) was that "he came in with a body fat ratio of 17 percent", giving us the only time a team owner ever discussed the body fat percentage of a free agent signing and of course vastly underestimating it.
Quote from: formulanone on January 07, 2023, 09:37:18 AM
Quote from: Rothman on January 06, 2023, 09:04:23 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on January 06, 2023, 08:55:32 PM
Chiropractors
Heh. Some are. But, I've found that this is a common belief held in Appalachia. My mother eventually came around. :D
What are the alternatives?
- Surgery that may not be affordable nor covered.
- Addiction to medications; increasing dosage or switching to stronger meds with harsher side effects.
- Dealing with unmanageable pain.
- I dunno...acupuncture?
I don't get all the chiro-hate, it's not as if the alternatives are anything other than suboptimal solutions. The first is ideal if it's covered and effective but the others (including chiropractic help) is just substituting one issue for another.
My personal experience... I have a curse of upright posture - L4-L5-S1.
Doctors offered pain management.
A chiropractor could relax some muscles and basically that made me walk normally 360 days/year.
A trainer in a gym made me gain several pounds of core muscles and allowed to forget about the 2 options above.
Although there is still a chance I may still need a surgery (.....
if you live long enough for things to go real bad - I don't know if that is optimistic or pessimistic)
For the record, the gym is the most expensive option as it is not covered by insurance.... And all those are recurring things, no real fix except surgery - and no surgery while patient can walk as risks are non-negligible and not justified.
CBD. I know this was mentioned already but it deserves its own spotlight.
Quote from: skluth on January 07, 2023, 11:29:29 AM
CBD. I know this was mentioned already but it deserves its own spotlight.
Never used it, but I do know a friend who was dealing with some major anxiety and she took CBD which helped with it quite a bit.
Most of the stuff featured in posts on r/scams.
Quote from: CoreySamson on January 07, 2023, 12:09:49 PM
Quote from: skluth on January 07, 2023, 11:29:29 AM
CBD. I know this was mentioned already but it deserves its own spotlight.
Never used it, but I do know a friend who was dealing with some major anxiety and she took CBD which helped with it quite a bit.
the placebo effect is certainly not a scam. Great that it helps, but that's why a lot of medical research is based on double-blind testing.
Quote from: kalvado on January 07, 2023, 12:30:54 PM
Quote from: CoreySamson on January 07, 2023, 12:09:49 PM
Quote from: skluth on January 07, 2023, 11:29:29 AM
CBD. I know this was mentioned already but it deserves its own spotlight.
Never used it, but I do know a friend who was dealing with some major anxiety and she took CBD which helped with it quite a bit.
the placebo effect is certainly not a scam. Great that it helps, but that's why a lot of medical research is based on double-blind testing.
Yeah...have friends that jump from one trendy supplement, claim one helps "so much"...only to have them jump on the next trend for the same symptoms.
CBD is legal in NYS, about time. The scam was alcohol and cigars being legal but not a harmless plant.
Quote from: MultiMillionMiler on January 07, 2023, 12:53:05 PM
CBD is legal in NYS, about time. The scam was alcohol and cigars being legal but not a harmless plant.
For hundreds of years alcohol was a vital part of the human diet. Literally vital.
Its a bit less clear with smoking to me, but looks like it was an important part of the diet as well, even despite the lime trick.
Quote from: MultiMillionMiler on January 07, 2023, 12:53:05 PM
CBD is legal in NYS, about time. The scam was alcohol and cigars being legal but not a harmless plant.
Tobacco is a part of many Native American religious rituals, far more than peyote. We've already seen that banning alcohol doesn't work.
I will admit there is some nuance with these.
* Insurance. All private insurance regulation in the US is based on the principle of underwriting profit (any other profit insurance companies make by investing premiums is not considered when progressing rate cases).
* Oil consumption limits for internal-combustion car engines. Since the 1920's, automakers have known how to build engines that burn zero oil in normal service after the break-in period. They simply choose not to do so, typically for reasons related to the quality of oils expected to be on the market during a given design cycle.
* Advice for choosing trees for landscaping. Much of it does not stand the test of time. Forty years ago, Bradford pears were popular; now they are considered invasive and unreasonably vulnerable to wind damage. Sweet gum trees were also in fashion, and are now banned by many HOAs because of the gum balls. Seventy years ago, elms ruled--now we're dealing with the aftermath of Dutch elm disease.
* Can openers (manual or electric) that work by piercing the can lid. Can openers that work by cutting the side of the can just below the lid allow more of the product to be poured out and leave cut edges that are far less likely to break skin.
* Mandolines. They're just an ER visit in waiting unless used with Kevlar gloves.
Quote from: skluth on January 07, 2023, 02:00:31 PM
Quote from: MultiMillionMiler on January 07, 2023, 12:53:05 PM
CBD is legal in NYS, about time. The scam was alcohol and cigars being legal but not a harmless plant.
Tobacco is a part of many Native American religious rituals, far more than peyote. We've already seen that banning alcohol doesn't work.
Neither does banning literally any other drug, especially weed. Marijuana has been around longer than alcohol.
The useless, doesn't actually work, crap sold on TV commercials (egg peelers, microwave bacon fryers, socks with copper thread, Cubii foot elipticals, butter slicers, pocket hoses, flex seal, adhesive wall hangars, cord organizers, battery cases (who the hell needs to carry around a supply of 47 different consumer battery types?), etc., etc.). And they'll make it a Double Offer! -- just pay for the second one!
(I concede that I love seeing the "Oh no!" looks on the actors' faces during the black-and-white Before scenes. That's some quality B-list acting.)
Quote from: wanderer2575 on January 07, 2023, 02:37:43 PM
The useless, doesn't actually work, crap sold on TV commercials (egg peelers, microwave bacon fryers, socks with copper thread, Cubii foot elipticals, butter slicers, pocket hoses, flex seal, adhesive wall hangars, cord organizers, battery cases (who the hell needs to carry around a supply of 47 different consumer battery types?), etc., etc.). And they'll make it a Double Offer! -- just pay for the second one!
(I concede that I love seeing the "Oh no!" looks on the actors' faces during the black-and-white Before scenes. That's some quality B-list acting.)
'This amazing cookware set costs not $400, $300, or even $200, but just the factory-direct price of 5 easy payments of $39.95!'
'But hurry, Yummy Can will be discontinued! Due to rising supply costs, Yummy Can will stop production immediately! There is a strict limit of 4 Yummy Cans per order!' -(Who the hell needs 4 Yummy Cans?)
'It's an amazing $120 value, absolutely free!' -(I swear, they just take a somewhat reasonable number and add $50 to it.)
The kind of crap they put in these infomercials is just ridiculous.
Parties. I believe that we are all individuals with different beliefs on everything. No two people have the same exact beliefs. Therefore besides giving give false security as it creates situations where one who protects the environment can't be pro capital punishment. That is impossible for half the universe to be for the same pros and have the same exact cons.
To me they divide not unite.
Quote from: skluth on January 07, 2023, 02:00:31 PM
Quote from: MultiMillionMiler on January 07, 2023, 12:53:05 PM
CBD is legal in NYS, about time. The scam was alcohol and cigars being legal but not a harmless plant.
Tobacco is a part of many Native American religious rituals, far more than peyote. We've already seen that banning alcohol doesn't work.
We've also seen that moderation works better than both extremes.
Quote from: wanderer2575 on January 07, 2023, 02:37:43 PM
The useless, doesn't actually work, crap sold on TV commercials (egg peelers, microwave bacon fryers, socks with copper thread, Cubii foot elipticals, butter slicers, pocket hoses, flex seal, adhesive wall hangars, cord organizers, battery cases (who the hell needs to carry around a supply of 47 different consumer battery types?), etc., etc.). And they'll make it a Double Offer! -- just pay for the second one!
(I concede that I love seeing the "Oh no!" looks on the actors' faces during the black-and-white Before scenes. That's some quality B-list acting.)
"But wait", "amazing"
Quote from: roadman65 on January 07, 2023, 03:15:19 PM
Parties. I believe that we are all individuals with different beliefs on everything. No two people have the same exact beliefs. Therefore besides giving give false security as it creates situations where one who protects the environment can't be pro capital punishment. That is impossible for half the universe to be for the same pros and have the same exact cons.
To me they divide not unite.
Not to mention that the Constitution explicitly designed a system that shouldn't have them. Political parties destroy the very system of checks and balances the Founding Fathers intended for us to have.
Would be helpful to have more parties made viable with a better voting method. FPTP is just awful.
DFS. The sites' algorhythms are rigged against the bettor.
Quote from: skluth on January 07, 2023, 11:29:29 AM
CBD. I know this was mentioned already but it deserves its own spotlight.
I, too, think central business districts are scams.
Quote from: formulanone on January 07, 2023, 04:43:18 PM
Quote from: skluth on January 07, 2023, 02:00:31 PM
Quote from: MultiMillionMiler on January 07, 2023, 12:53:05 PM
CBD is legal in NYS, about time. The scam was alcohol and cigars being legal but not a harmless plant.
Tobacco is a part of many Native American religious rituals, far more than peyote. We've already seen that banning alcohol doesn't work.
We've also seen that moderation works better than both extremes.
The cancer risk of tobacco outweighs any benefit from it. For today, I like the current strategy of taxing the heck out of it, but am still troubled by the idea that we'll let people just get so addicted to the stuff that they may end up in financial and health ruin.
And weed hardly has any risks. Any laws against it are a scam. Can't wait to go to a local dispensary.
Weed still smells gross when smoked. Anyone who has tried to convince me otherwise is pulling a scam.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on January 07, 2023, 06:11:42 PM
Weed still smells gross when smoked. Anyone who has tried to convince me otherwise is pulling a scam.
^This. Smelling it in public is awful. Smoke it on your own in your home, but it's still a public nuisance.
That guy Morgan advocated for pot in Florida. The one who pats himself on the back for being Americas Largest Personal Injury firm and tells everyone to do your research before hiring a law firm.
Rumor has it he owns pot farms so of course he'd push legislation for it to be legally distributed.
Point is even the early baby boomers are coming around to the fact pot isn't so bad after all despite twenty years ago boomers were anti pot for generation X and Millennials to want.
Quote from: roadman65 on January 07, 2023, 06:22:56 PM
That guy Morgan advocated for pot in Florida. The one who pats himself on the back for being Americas Largest Personal Injury firm and tells everyone to do your research before hiring a law firm.
Rumor has it he owns pot farms so of course he'd push legislation for it to be legally distributed.
Point is even the early baby boomers are coming around to the fact pot isn't so bad after all despite twenty years ago boomers were anti pot for generation X and Millennials to want.
I don't know if he owns pot farms, but he's freely admitted he's invested millions in the business, so he stands to gain a lot with his lobbying.
Also, he is a scam. On many levels. Bragging about hiring RFK Jr on Boston-area billboards alone proves what a turd he is.
Home improvement ads, particularly replacement windows.
Quote from: Rothman on January 07, 2023, 06:16:43 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on January 07, 2023, 06:11:42 PM
Weed still smells gross when smoked. Anyone who has tried to convince me otherwise is pulling a scam.
^This. Smelling it in public is awful. Smoke it on your own in your home, but it's still a public nuisance.
Drunk drivers are much more of a public nuisance. A stoned driver sits there waiting for the stop sign to turn green.
Quote from: MultiMillionMiler on January 07, 2023, 06:54:54 PM
Quote from: Rothman on January 07, 2023, 06:16:43 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on January 07, 2023, 06:11:42 PM
Weed still smells gross when smoked. Anyone who has tried to convince me otherwise is pulling a scam.
^This. Smelling it in public is awful. Smoke it on your own in your home, but it's still a public nuisance.
Drunk drivers are much more of a public nuisance. A stoned driver sits there waiting for the stop sign to turn green.
You sound like my wife's Uncle when he tries to convince me it's okay for him to smoke pot inside my house.
Quote from: MultiMillionMiler on January 07, 2023, 06:59:31 PM
You sound like you need it so he's right. Take some deep breaths next time he's over and relax for once!
Can't, I'm a Federal Employee and get screened randomly. Marijuana is still a Federal Schedule I narcotic and thusly would appear on a screen. Likewise, I wouldn't allow someone to smoke a cigarette in my house either.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on January 07, 2023, 07:20:15 PM
Quote from: MultiMillionMiler on January 07, 2023, 06:59:31 PM
You sound like you need it so he's right. Take some deep breaths next time he's over and relax for once!
Can't, I'm a Federal Employee and get screened randomly. Marijuana is still a Federal Schedule I narcotic and thusly would appear on a screen. Likewise, I wouldn't allow someone to smoke a cigarette in my house either.
To be fair, the federal drug-testing policy is kind of a scam. It's led to a lot of government agencies being forced to contract out certain functions because it is entirely impossible to hire anyone qualified who tests clean. (Computer programming is the prime example–you don't
have to be high out of your mind to do software engineering, but it sure does help you make mental connections that you wouldn't otherwise.)
Quote from: Scott5114 on January 07, 2023, 07:24:46 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on January 07, 2023, 07:20:15 PM
Quote from: MultiMillionMiler on January 07, 2023, 06:59:31 PM
You sound like you need it so he's right. Take some deep breaths next time he's over and relax for once!
Can't, I'm a Federal Employee and get screened randomly. Marijuana is still a Federal Schedule I narcotic and thusly would appear on a screen. Likewise, I wouldn't allow someone to smoke a cigarette in my house either.
To be fair, the federal drug-testing policy is kind of a scam. It's led to a lot of government agencies being forced to contract out certain functions because it is entirely impossible to hire anyone qualified who tests clean. (Computer programming is the prime example–you don't have to be high out of your mind to do software engineering, but it sure does help you make mental connections that you wouldn't otherwise.)
I don't disagree, all the same I'm not risking my pension and 401k over some weed. A nice tall can of beer is more my speed anyways.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on January 07, 2023, 07:26:32 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on January 07, 2023, 07:24:46 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on January 07, 2023, 07:20:15 PM
Quote from: MultiMillionMiler on January 07, 2023, 06:59:31 PM
You sound like you need it so he's right. Take some deep breaths next time he's over and relax for once!
Can't, I'm a Federal Employee and get screened randomly. Marijuana is still a Federal Schedule I narcotic and thusly would appear on a screen. Likewise, I wouldn't allow someone to smoke a cigarette in my house either.
To be fair, the federal drug-testing policy is kind of a scam. It's led to a lot of government agencies being forced to contract out certain functions because it is entirely impossible to hire anyone qualified who tests clean. (Computer programming is the prime example–you don't have to be high out of your mind to do software engineering, but it sure does help you make mental connections that you wouldn't otherwise.)
I don't disagree, all the same I'm not risking my pension and 401k over some weed. A nice tall can of beer is more my speed anyways.
Having a pension definitely adds an element to the equation a lot of people don't have. An employer cannot legally repossess a 401K, however.
My wife used to be a teetotaler for the same reasons as you, but eventually decided that the quality of life increase by using was worth the risk, since it does help her a lot with chronic pain. For someone like me whose only real medical need for it is as a sleep aid, I could probably do without. Still, though, I think drugs might have allowed me to tolerate my last job far better, perhaps to the extent that I might still work there.
Quote from: Scott5114 on January 07, 2023, 07:37:16 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on January 07, 2023, 07:26:32 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on January 07, 2023, 07:24:46 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on January 07, 2023, 07:20:15 PM
Quote from: MultiMillionMiler on January 07, 2023, 06:59:31 PM
You sound like you need it so he's right. Take some deep breaths next time he's over and relax for once!
Can't, I'm a Federal Employee and get screened randomly. Marijuana is still a Federal Schedule I narcotic and thusly would appear on a screen. Likewise, I wouldn't allow someone to smoke a cigarette in my house either.
To be fair, the federal drug-testing policy is kind of a scam. It's led to a lot of government agencies being forced to contract out certain functions because it is entirely impossible to hire anyone qualified who tests clean. (Computer programming is the prime example–you don't have to be high out of your mind to do software engineering, but it sure does help you make mental connections that you wouldn't otherwise.)
I don't disagree, all the same I'm not risking my pension and 401k over some weed. A nice tall can of beer is more my speed anyways.
Having a pension definitely adds an element to the equation a lot of people don't have. An employer cannot legally repossess a 401K, however.
My wife used to be a teetotaler for the same reasons as you, but eventually decided that the quality of life increase by using was worth the risk, since it does help her a lot with chronic pain. For someone like me whose only real medical need for it is as a sleep aid, I could probably do without. Still, though, I think drugs might have allowed me to tolerate my last job far better, perhaps to the extent that I might still work there.
I'm not necessarily opposed to using marijuana products. In fact I used them somewhat regularly through high school until was 19 years old. At the time started to become involved with jobs that that might randomly test for marijuana byproducts. All I have really negative to say regarding marijuana was regarding the smell.
Regarding 401k, to clarify I'm referring to the 6% half matching contributions I get right now with my current employer. That's a lot of free money I'm not going to get anywhere else for what I do career wise. Likewise my pension can't be taken away that I'm vested. Another ten years is a short time to wait for a fully vested pension to hold off on smoking a joint or two.
The fact that is it classified as a "Schedule 1 Narcotic with no accepted medical use" alone is the biggest scam in the world. Literally every neuropharmacologist would disagree with that statement. It's about time states that still have tyrannical weed laws on the books get punished somehow by the federal government. Then again it's hard to reason with state governments that spend more on execution drugs than actual healthcare.
Quote from: MultiMillionMiler on January 07, 2023, 07:48:32 PM
The fact that is it classified as a "Schedule 1 Narcotic with no accepted medical use" alone is the biggest scam in the world. Literally every neuropharmacologist would disagree with that statement. It's about time states that still have tyrannical weed laws on the books get punished somehow by the federal government. Then again it's hard to reason with state governments that spend more on execution drugs than actual healthcare.
At this point retirement is closing in more and more rapidly. The way I see this marijuana debate (and a great many other things) is "not my battle." I see no point for me in poking the marijuana bear this close to the end of my career and flagging positive on a random screen.
No sure, don't take the chance. This country is still in the dark ages when it comes to drug laws.
Teetotaler here. Never felt the need or urge to take illicit drugs. All for reasonable drug laws and legalization of medically useful substances, but I have seen more harm come from friends who have gotten involved with harmful drugs than benefit.
Regarding weed, intoxication in general is overrated and surely cannot be beneficial to one's health long-term, no matter the intoxicant.
The Morgans of Morgan & Morgan infamy have Kentucky ties. I'd never hire them as a law firm because they once employed former Kentucky Attorney General and House Speaker Greg Stumbo. He is literally one human being upon whom I would pour gasoline if he was on fire.
I enjoy 2-4 drinks on occasion which gets me a mellow alcohol buzz. I don't like feeling of being intoxicated much less drunk.
I could never drink that disgusting stuff. I have never even tasted beer in my life and never will. If I had a dollar for every recorded Marijuana death in human history I couldn't even buy a pizza.
How do you know beer is disgusting if you haven't tried it?
All alcohol is poison.
Let's compare:
Alcohol side effects: Brain Cancer, liver failure, heart disease, drunk driving crashes, domestic violence, over 700,000 deaths a year. Few medical benefits.
Marijuana side effects: Increased appetite, relaxation, anxiety relief, reduced epilepsy, non-addictive pain relief, chemotherapy suffering reduction, increased cognitive performance, euphoria, less than 10 deaths in all of human history, (if any).
Case Closed.
I have ingested cannabis at second hand and decided it is not for me. I didn't particularly care for the type of person I became when high on it, and it took about ten days for my armpits to stop smelling of burnt rope. However, I generally support legalization.
Quote from: MultiMillionMiler on January 06, 2023, 05:16:28 PM
I feel bad for all the kids from lunatic families who only feed them "gluten free" stuff. I bet they protest GMOs though, despite them being a great source of Vitamin A.
If we have kids, that could potentially describe my wife. (And she's really into essential oils.)
Quote from: hbelkins on January 07, 2023, 08:16:59 PM
Regarding weed, intoxication in general is overrated and surely cannot be beneficial to one's health long-term, no matter the intoxicant.
I used to be of this mindset, but I've found many benefits to cannabis intoxication. The primary one is to creative work. With my inhibitions lowered, I am less likely to shut down an idea that seems to be "too hard" or "won't work". I've drawn plenty of things that when I was sober seemed like I had no hope of executing, but when high I just...did it.
Another is to housework and similar chores. When sober, I hate doing housework because I can't get my mind off of how much I'd rather be doing something else, and start to get frustrated and resentful that I'm wasting my time on it. When I'm high, I don't care, I just amuse myself with seeing how tightly I can pack the dishwasher or reorganizing the spice rack to be more efficient or whatever.
I can accept that for other people who have a different mindset or goals than me, they might not derive the same benefits I do.
Quote from: MultiMillionMiler on January 07, 2023, 08:45:20 PM
All alcohol is poison.
Let's compare:
Alcohol side effects: Brain Cancer, liver failure, heart disease, drunk driving crashes, domestic violence, over 700,000 deaths a year. Few medical benefits.
Marijuana side effects: Increased appetite, relaxation, anxiety relief, reduced epilepsy, non-addictive pain relief, chemotherapy suffering reduction, increased cognitive performance, euphoria, less than 10 deaths in all of human history, (if any).
Case Closed.
What is your problem - epilepcy or cancer?
Quote from: MultiMillionMiler on January 07, 2023, 08:45:20 PM
All alcohol is poison.
Let's compare:
Alcohol side effects: Brain Cancer, liver failure, heart disease, drunk driving crashes, domestic violence, over 700,000 deaths a year. Few medical benefits.
Marijuana side effects: Increased appetite, relaxation, anxiety relief, reduced epilepsy, non-addictive pain relief, chemotherapy suffering reduction, increased cognitive performance, euphoria, less than 10 deaths in all of human history, (if any).
Case Closed.
None of this is an explanation for how you know beer tastes disgusting despite never consuming it.
Quote from: elsmere241 on January 07, 2023, 08:48:16 PM
Quote from: MultiMillionMiler on January 06, 2023, 05:16:28 PM
I feel bad for all the kids from lunatic families who only feed them "gluten free" stuff. I bet they protest GMOs though, despite them being a great source of Vitamin A.
If we have kids, that could potentially describe my wife. (And she's really into essential oils.)
Every gluten free food I have tried tasted absolutely horrible or upset my stomach. Don't do that to your future kids over paranoid fears. I ate so much junk food an
as a kid, still do sometimes, and my physical health is fine.
Quote from: MultiMillionMiler on January 07, 2023, 08:59:02 PM
Quote from: elsmere241 on January 07, 2023, 08:48:16 PM
Quote from: MultiMillionMiler on January 06, 2023, 05:16:28 PM
I feel bad for all the kids from lunatic families who only feed them "gluten free" stuff. I bet they protest GMOs though, despite them being a great source of Vitamin A.
If we have kids, that could potentially describe my wife. (And she's really into essential oils.)
Every gluten free food I have tried tasted absolutely horrible or upset my stomach. Don't do that to your future kids over paranoid fears. I ate so much junk food an
as a kid, still do sometimes, and my physical health is fine.
So every potato chip you've ever ate has tasted horrible or made your stomach upset?
Quote from: MultiMillionMiler on January 07, 2023, 08:59:02 PM
Quote from: elsmere241 on January 07, 2023, 08:48:16 PM
Quote from: MultiMillionMiler on January 06, 2023, 05:16:28 PM
I feel bad for all the kids from lunatic families who only feed them "gluten free" stuff. I bet they protest GMOs though, despite them being a great source of Vitamin A.
If we have kids, that could potentially describe my wife. (And she's really into essential oils.)
Every gluten free food I have tried tasted absolutely horrible or upset my stomach. Don't do that to your future kids over paranoid fears. I ate so much junk food an
as a kid, still do sometimes, and my physical health is fine.
Wow, I can understand you don't drink beer - but how comes you didn't try any apples, peaches and blueberries? No steaks nor potatoes?
I do understand why you need to get high with such a diet!
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on January 07, 2023, 09:04:19 PM
Quote from: MultiMillionMiler on January 07, 2023, 08:59:02 PM
Quote from: elsmere241 on January 07, 2023, 08:48:16 PM
Quote from: MultiMillionMiler on January 06, 2023, 05:16:28 PM
I feel bad for all the kids from lunatic families who only feed them "gluten free" stuff. I bet they protest GMOs though, despite them being a great source of Vitamin A.
If we have kids, that could potentially describe my wife. (And she's really into essential oils.)
Every gluten free food I have tried tasted absolutely horrible or upset my stomach. Don't do that to your future kids over paranoid fears. I ate so much junk food an
as a kid, still do sometimes, and my physical health is fine.
So every potato chip you've ever ate has tasted horrible or made your stomach upset?
That's what they get at maximum security solitary - bread and water... I wonder how 420 is sneaked in...
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on January 07, 2023, 09:04:19 PM
Quote from: MultiMillionMiler on January 07, 2023, 08:59:02 PM
Quote from: elsmere241 on January 07, 2023, 08:48:16 PM
Quote from: MultiMillionMiler on January 06, 2023, 05:16:28 PM
I feel bad for all the kids from lunatic families who only feed them "gluten free" stuff. I bet they protest GMOs though, despite them being a great source of Vitamin A.
If we have kids, that could potentially describe my wife. (And she's really into essential oils.)
Every gluten free food I have tried tasted absolutely horrible or upset my stomach. Don't do that to your future kids over paranoid fears. I ate so much junk food an
as a kid, still do sometimes, and my physical health is fine.
So every potato chip you've ever ate has tasted horrible or made your stomach upset?
No, but that would explain why I don't like them.
I'm a teetotaler because I'd rather spend that money on other hobbies. Or vices like sweets.
Speaking of, most American chocolates are scams. They're rarely worth buying at full retail price compared to their Asian and European counterparts. I can never go back to brands that use butyric acid.
Quote from: MultiMillionMiler on January 07, 2023, 09:13:31 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on January 07, 2023, 09:04:19 PM
Quote from: MultiMillionMiler on January 07, 2023, 08:59:02 PM
Quote from: elsmere241 on January 07, 2023, 08:48:16 PM
Quote from: MultiMillionMiler on January 06, 2023, 05:16:28 PM
I feel bad for all the kids from lunatic families who only feed them "gluten free" stuff. I bet they protest GMOs though, despite them being a great source of Vitamin A.
If we have kids, that could potentially describe my wife. (And she's really into essential oils.)
Every gluten free food I have tried tasted absolutely horrible or upset my stomach. Don't do that to your future kids over paranoid fears. I ate so much junk food an
as a kid, still do sometimes, and my physical health is fine.
So every potato chip you've ever ate has tasted horrible or made your stomach upset?
No, but that would explain why I don't like them.
Most beer has that gluten goodness you're after.
Like JNW, I have tried marijuana several times and have decided that it's not for me, but support it being legal.
I like the alcohol buzz. I do not like the feeling of being stoned.
Quote from: MultiMillionMiler on January 07, 2023, 08:45:20 PM
Marijuana side effects: Increased appetite, relaxation, anxiety relief, reduced epilepsy, non-addictive pain relief, chemotherapy suffering reduction, increased cognitive performance, euphoria, less than 10 deaths in all of human history, (if any).
There are many long-term side effects to marijuana usage including addiction, inhibited brain development, long-term memory loss, attention deficit, and an increased chance of developing mental conditions such as psychosis, schizophrenia, and depression. It might be less dangerous than other drugs, but it still has a lot of dangers.
TV antennas that are sold as HD, or 4K, digital antennas. This includes the ClearTV & TV Freeway antennas. An antenna does not care if the signal is analog or digital. Some informercials for these TV antennas even claim that they can pick up cable, or satellite, channels. They are also not very clear about weather, or not, they can work in rural areas as well.
Quote from: Scott5114 on January 07, 2023, 07:24:46 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on January 07, 2023, 07:20:15 PM
Quote from: MultiMillionMiler on January 07, 2023, 06:59:31 PM
You sound like you need it so he's right. Take some deep breaths next time he's over and relax for once!
Can't, I'm a Federal Employee and get screened randomly. Marijuana is still a Federal Schedule I narcotic and thusly would appear on a screen. Likewise, I wouldn't allow someone to smoke a cigarette in my house either.
To be fair, the federal drug-testing policy is kind of a scam. It's led to a lot of government agencies being forced to contract out certain functions because it is entirely impossible to hire anyone qualified who tests clean. (Computer programming is the prime example–you don't have to be high out of your mind to do software engineering, but it sure does help you make mental connections that you wouldn't otherwise.)
Like everything, moderation is the key. There's a fine line between smoking oneself into 'the zone', vs. being so ripped you spend 45 minutes looking for a semicolon.
Quote from: MultiMillionMiler on January 07, 2023, 09:17:52 PM
Quote from: kalvado on January 07, 2023, 09:05:29 PM
Quote from: MultiMillionMiler on January 07, 2023, 08:59:02 PM
Quote from: elsmere241 on January 07, 2023, 08:48:16 PM
Quote from: MultiMillionMiler on January 06, 2023, 05:16:28 PM
I feel bad for all the kids from lunatic families who only feed them "gluten free" stuff. I bet they protest GMOs though, despite them being a great source of Vitamin A.
If we have kids, that could potentially describe my wife. (And she's really into essential oils.)
Every gluten free food I have tried tasted absolutely horrible or upset my stomach. Don't do that to your future kids over paranoid fears. I ate so much junk food an
as a kid, still do sometimes, and my physical health is fine.
Wow, I can understand you don't drink beer - but how comes you didn't try any apples, peaches and blueberries? No steaks nor potatoes?
I do understand why you need to get high with such a diet!
Apples I occasionally eat, they aren't good but they don't taste bad either. Broccoli is my vegetable of choice. I love chicken but don't remember if I've tried steak. Chicken cutlets are my favorite meal.
I'm not a big steak person, but the fact that you've never once tried steak in two decades makes me wonder if everything you post here can be subject matter for this thread.
The worst scam of all: YouTube Premium. Just use uBlock Origin and deal with ads in the rare case you watch on mobile.
Quote from: bm7 on January 07, 2023, 11:33:12 PM
Quote from: MultiMillionMiler on January 07, 2023, 08:45:20 PM
Marijuana side effects: Increased appetite, relaxation, anxiety relief, reduced epilepsy, non-addictive pain relief, chemotherapy suffering reduction, increased cognitive performance, euphoria, less than 10 deaths in all of human history, (if any).
There are many long-term side effects to marijuana usage including addiction, inhibited brain development, long-term memory loss, attention deficit, and an increased chance of developing mental conditions such as psychosis, schizophrenia, and depression. It might be less dangerous than other drugs, but it still has a lot of dangers.
Key word is longer term. Lexapro does those same things to people with brains not yet fully developed and parents still dope their kids up on meds like that. Addiction also doesn't automatically make something an issue. If you can grow it in your own garden, you're not going to resort to crime to obtain it. Legalizing drugs ensures the black market dies off along with all the crime that comes with it. But yes, many anti-depressant/anxiety meds used long term can have those same harmful effects on the brain. Not to mention they are less effective then weed is for those conditions.
Really popular scams:
QAnon
Election fraud theories
Anti-vaccination propaganda
Trickle down economics
Quote from: MultiMillionMiler on January 08, 2023, 11:06:46 AM
Quote from: bm7 on January 07, 2023, 11:33:12 PM
Quote from: MultiMillionMiler on January 07, 2023, 08:45:20 PM
Marijuana side effects: Increased appetite, relaxation, anxiety relief, reduced epilepsy, non-addictive pain relief, chemotherapy suffering reduction, increased cognitive performance, euphoria, less than 10 deaths in all of human history, (if any).
There are many long-term side effects to marijuana usage including addiction, inhibited brain development, long-term memory loss, attention deficit, and an increased chance of developing mental conditions such as psychosis, schizophrenia, and depression. It might be less dangerous than other drugs, but it still has a lot of dangers.
Key word is longer term. Lexapro does those same things to people with brains not yet fully developed and parents still dope their kids up on meds like that. Addiction also doesn't automatically make something an issue. If you can grow it in your own garden, you're not going to resort to crime to obtain it. Legalizing drugs ensures the black market dies off along with all the crime that comes with it. But yes, many anti-depressant/anxiety meds used long term can have those same harmful effects on the brain. Not to mention they are less effective then weed is for those conditions.
Legalization in California hasn't totally killed the black market for marijuana products. There is always someone out there who will offer something more potent for a price.
Quote from: MultiMillionMiler on January 08, 2023, 12:38:13 PM
Well maybe the government should legalize the sale of more potent stuff.
Says someone who doesn't know what full time job is
One size fits all solutions to anything much less crime and addiction rarely produce desired results.
Quote from: LilianaUwU on January 08, 2023, 11:04:26 AM
The worst scam of all: YouTube Premium. Just use uBlock Origin and deal with ads in the rare case you watch on mobile.
Unless you primarily watch on mobile (or TV, like using a console) like I do. It's worth paying for the amount of YouTube I watch, which is admittedly too much time wasted... I also don't mind paying since I don't usually subscribe to any other video streaming services outside of for about a month to watch something specific.
I'm just sick of watching ads in general. I work for money, I pay my money, I get no ads. Good deal to me.
- Panhandlers on busy street corners (I'd LOVE to sic some IRS auditors on them!)
- Voting at locations and times other than your local polling places on election day
- People who were (and still are) all wigged out over the 'Bug' for the past 3 years
- recorded calls from never before seen phone numbers
- The 16th Amendment
- Speed limits that are (politically) set to slow for their roads
Mike
Quote from: mgk920 on January 08, 2023, 01:19:02 PM
- Voting at locations and times other than your local polling places on election day
There is absolutely no reason why voting should last only one day. The longer the total time available, the shorter the lines are. This is effectively what early voting is.
Quote from: MultiMillionMiler on January 07, 2023, 08:45:20 PM
All alcohol is poison.
Let's compare:
Alcohol side effects: Brain Cancer, liver failure, heart disease, drunk driving crashes, domestic violence, over 700,000 deaths a year. Few medical benefits.
Marijuana side effects: Increased appetite, relaxation, anxiety relief, reduced epilepsy, non-addictive pain relief, chemotherapy suffering reduction, increased cognitive performance, euphoria, less than 10 deaths in all of human history, (if any).
Case Closed.
Then you want us to simply outlaw it. Kewl. :nod:
Mike
Maybe, it causes too much damage to society.
Quote from: mgk920 on January 08, 2023, 01:19:02 PMVoting at locations and times other than your local polling places on election day
Disagree. If I vote early in person or by mail, I sidestep poll workers hired for the day, functioning on little sleep, and often poorly trained.
Quote from: MultiMillionMiler on January 08, 2023, 01:34:00 PM
Maybe, it causes too much damage to society.
Says the guy with no actual experience in adult society.
No, just experience in a couple neuropharmacology classes from college.
Quote from: MultiMillionMiler on January 08, 2023, 02:38:20 PM
No, just experience in a couple neuropharmacology classes from college.
College education and the manifest destiny career expectations it brings to many young people is very divorced from how the actual real world works.
One might way, that certain aspect of the college experience is a scam.
Quote from: MultiMillionMiler on January 08, 2023, 02:49:26 PM
All highway tolls are scams, especially the Jersey Turnpike. I shouldn't have to drain my bank account $1000/year on extortion toll bills. They never use it to repair the roads anyway. I am not consuming any resources by traveling on a public road that my taxes already paid for 3x over. And what are the alternatives? Route 130? I-195 to I-295 LOL nope!
Someone want to explain to MMM that VMTs are basically inevitable?
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on January 08, 2023, 02:51:30 PM
Quote from: MultiMillionMiler on January 08, 2023, 02:38:20 PM
No, just experience in a couple neuropharmacology classes from college.
College education and the manifest destiny career expectations it brings to many young people is very divorced from how the actual real world works.
One might way, that certain aspect of the college experience is a scam.
I agree with all of that, I actually regret going. But I did enjoy the neuroscience/psychology classes which is how I know the dangers of drinking. The professor (PHD in neuropharmacology) agreed that all drugs, except alcohol, should be legal.
Quote from: MultiMillionMiler on January 08, 2023, 02:57:33 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on January 08, 2023, 02:51:30 PM
Quote from: MultiMillionMiler on January 08, 2023, 02:38:20 PM
No, just experience in a couple neuropharmacology classes from college.
College education and the manifest destiny career expectations it brings to many young people is very divorced from how the actual real world works.
One might way, that certain aspect of the college experience is a scam.
I agree with all of that, I actually regret going. But I did enjoy the neuroscience/psychology classes which is how I know the dangers of drinking. The professor (PHD in neuropharmacology) agreed that all drugs, except alcohol, should be legal.
Sounds like you should ask for a refund given they filled your head with some moon logic.
(Before you say it, I already know you didn't pay for classes.)
Quote from: MultiMillionMiler on January 08, 2023, 03:06:15 PM
So now Max R is a neuroscience expert ROTFL. While I don't agree that every hard core drug should be legal, I still think Alcohol is the scariest hard core drug there is and should stop being produced in this country.
The fact you use acronyms like this in sentences really illustrates why I think your degree is worthless. All this college experience and you do nothing with it, how sad. Saying things like "alcohol is the scariest hard core drug" really speaks to how divorced from reality you are.
Quote from: MultiMillionMiler on January 08, 2023, 03:21:38 PM
Alcohol is the worst gateway drug as well. And millions of Americans are starting to finally come to their senses and see the hypocrisy. LOL but believe me you are 100% right on how worthless college is. And FYI, alcohol is the first drug you loose touch with reality with the fastest out of any other drug. FWIW, even many baby boomers are starting to realize how pointless the war on drugs was and instead that should be shifted against alcohol.
See, you want to be acknowledged as the subject matter expert of everything you comment on. What you don't understand is that the content of your posts exposes your lack of real world experience. Speaking in absolutes regarding things like alcohol really puts on display how child-like your world view really is.
Most non-STEM university degrees are scams. We should have vocational schools set up specifically for such professional fields as doctors and lawyers, too.
Mike
Quote from: mgk920 on January 08, 2023, 03:42:22 PM
Most non-STEM university degrees are scams. We should have vocational schools set up specifically for such professional fields as doctors and lawyers, too.
Mike
Nothing wrong with humanities and business degrees (well, aside from the rise of the managerial class for the latter), at least if you have a career plan and a viable fallback option. The problem comes when someone doesn't know what they want to do with their lives and picks a humanities major because they're interested in the subject and don't have a plan beyond "get a college degree". Those fields are over-saturated, but their existence is valuable for society, so they shouldn't go away.
Over-saturation isn't just a humanities problem, either. Computer science has had that problem too.
I have a friend with a PhD in... Not sure formal spelling , but it is about human genetics, in particular certain class of bone problems. Fine print: she is severely affected by the same disorder, and she and her family are a part of her study.
I wonder if we see the same situation here...
Supermarkets that have these contests requiring you to buy things you don't normally purchase on a regular basis, stick a game piece on a useless map, and hope you win SOME kind of prize only to find out you don't because of stupid ass loopholes and stacks of contest rules septillions of miles long just flat out bugs me. Albertson's does this A LOT! Their Monopoly games that they advertise every year is flat out bogus. So, I tried it out one time, but I never completed the puzzle. I just kept thinking "this is a waste of time".
Quote from: Billy F 1988 on January 08, 2023, 07:35:21 PM
Supermarkets that have these contests requiring you to buy things you don't normally purchase on a regular basis, stick a game piece on a useless map, and hope you win SOME kind of prize only to find out you don't because of stupid ass loopholes and stacks of contest rules septillions of miles long just flat out bugs me. Albertson's does this A LOT! Their Monopoly games that they advertise every year is flat out bogus. So, I tried it out one time, but I never completed the puzzle. I just kept thinking "this is a waste of time".
There was one that Rite Aid did years ago. Toward the end, they gave out bags with hundreds of pieces so that all could be used. I got a single instant win of $2 out of all of those.
Quote from: J N Winkler on January 07, 2023, 02:10:31 PM
I will admit there is some nuance with these.
* Insurance. All private insurance regulation in the US is based on the principle of underwriting profit (any other profit insurance companies make by investing premiums is not considered when progressing rate cases).
^^^^^^^
This. A product that's a legislated requirement whereas the product itself is often withheld for reasons buried in mountains of legalese that no one will ever read because we don't have the time, nor a legal degree to translate.
Coffeezilla goes after some of the Scam Artists who act like cult leaders.
In this case Coffeezilla goes after Logan Paul over his Crypto Scam.
Quote from: mgk920 on January 06, 2023, 11:13:02 AM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on January 06, 2023, 09:10:51 AM
Quote from: 1 on January 06, 2023, 08:21:47 AM
Cryptocurrency and NFTs in their entirety.
Amen. Technological beanie babies.
I've always thought of 'cryptocurrency' as being the modern day investment equivalent of tulip bulbs a few centuries ago.
Mike
At least tulip bulbs were real.
Quote from: Billy F 1988 on January 08, 2023, 07:35:21 PM
Supermarkets that have these contests requiring you to buy things you don't normally purchase on a regular basis, stick a game piece on a useless map, and hope you win SOME kind of prize only to find out you don't because of stupid ass loopholes and stacks of contest rules septillions of miles long just flat out bugs me. Albertson's does this A LOT! Their Monopoly games that they advertise every year is flat out bogus. So, I tried it out one time, but I never completed the puzzle. I just kept thinking "this is a waste of time".
You realize the Monopoly games at McDonald's and such are basically just "there are 3 Marvin Gardens in the world. If you get one of those, you win." vs. actually a game to play where "collecting" does anything, right?
Quote from: JayhawkCO on January 09, 2023, 12:31:54 PM
Quote from: Billy F 1988 on January 08, 2023, 07:35:21 PM
Supermarkets that have these contests requiring you to buy things you don't normally purchase on a regular basis, stick a game piece on a useless map, and hope you win SOME kind of prize only to find out you don't because of stupid ass loopholes and stacks of contest rules septillions of miles long just flat out bugs me. Albertson's does this A LOT! Their Monopoly games that they advertise every year is flat out bogus. So, I tried it out one time, but I never completed the puzzle. I just kept thinking "this is a waste of time".
You realize the Monopoly games at McDonald's and such are basically just "there are 3 Marvin Gardens in the world. If you get one of those, you win." vs. actually a game to play where "collecting" does anything, right?
McDonald's actually gives you free menu items as very common instant wins unlike a lot of the other businesses that do it.
Quote from: 1 on January 09, 2023, 12:36:14 PM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on January 09, 2023, 12:31:54 PM
Quote from: Billy F 1988 on January 08, 2023, 07:35:21 PM
Supermarkets that have these contests requiring you to buy things you don't normally purchase on a regular basis, stick a game piece on a useless map, and hope you win SOME kind of prize only to find out you don't because of stupid ass loopholes and stacks of contest rules septillions of miles long just flat out bugs me. Albertson's does this A LOT! Their Monopoly games that they advertise every year is flat out bogus. So, I tried it out one time, but I never completed the puzzle. I just kept thinking "this is a waste of time".
You realize the Monopoly games at McDonald's and such are basically just "there are 3 Marvin Gardens in the world. If you get one of those, you win." vs. actually a game to play where "collecting" does anything, right?
McDonald's actually gives you free menu items as very common instant wins unlike a lot of the other businesses that do it.
Any business running any promotion is saying "you can get more for less than at our competitor" while it is actually "come more, buy more, so we can make more money"
Sometimes these are not contradictory, as business can lower their prices if they get more sales - but casino always wins at the end of the day.
Quote from: mgk920 on January 08, 2023, 01:19:02 PM
- Voting at locations and times other than your local polling places on election day
I can't agree with this one.
Quote from: Rothman on January 07, 2023, 09:38:44 AM
Quote from: formulanone on January 07, 2023, 09:37:18 AM
Quote from: Rothman on January 06, 2023, 09:04:23 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on January 06, 2023, 08:55:32 PM
Chiropractors
Heh. Some are. But, I've found that this is a common belief held in Appalachia. My mother eventually came around. :D
What are the alternatives?
- Surgery that may not be affordable nor covered.
- Addiction to medications; increasing dosage or switching to stronger meds with harsher side effects.
- Dealing with unmanageable pain.
- I dunno...acupuncture?
I don't get all the chiro-hate, it's not as if the alternatives are anything other than suboptimal solutions.
Well, there were chiropractors when I lived in CA that told my friends that they could cure diabetes, so chiroquackery does exist out there.
My dad was once on a jury for a civil case involving an automobile accident, and in the process of cross-examining the chiropractor who was serving as the plaintiff's expert witness, it came to light that the students at his alma mater performed something called the "Money Chant."
That doesn't help matters, either.
Quote from: J N Winkler on January 08, 2023, 01:41:18 PM
Quote from: mgk920 on January 08, 2023, 01:19:02 PMVoting at locations and times other than your local polling places on election day
Disagree. If I vote early in person or by mail, I sidestep poll workers hired for the day, functioning on little sleep, and often poorly trained.
Oh, you definitely did. I serve as an election judge here, and my Election Day starts at 5 am and ends around 9 pm.
Quote from: CtrlAltDel on January 09, 2023, 12:55:22 PM
Quote from: mgk920 on January 08, 2023, 01:19:02 PM
- Voting at locations and times other than your local polling places on election day
I can't agree with this one.
Sorry for going into politics, but...
Elections should be a secure procedure. Security concepts are evolving, as parties involved are becoming more aggressive and understanding of problems evolves. There is also a complication with identity verification and anonymizing results. Keeping as much of the process as possible exposed to public and monitors; and verifyable is the way problem is approached so far. Thats not the only option, but most traditional one.
With that....
A lot of recent policies are aimed at reducing elections security - possibly as unintended effect (if you believe in "unintended" part, I have some highway bridges for sale real cheap). Mail-in voting aka ballot harvesting, no government ID verification, early voting without monitors present, ballot photos are great examples of security backdoors which may not be used YET.
YET is the keyword.
On the same page - a lot of security aspects in our lives is evolving. We may dislike 2FA it is used more and more frequently. Chip-enabled credit cards are a mainstream. We still have door locks mostly preventing honest people from accidentally walking in - but now they are often supplemented with cameras...
Quote from: kalvado on January 09, 2023, 01:18:18 PM
Quote from: CtrlAltDel on January 09, 2023, 12:55:22 PM
Quote from: mgk920 on January 08, 2023, 01:19:02 PM
- Voting at locations and times other than your local polling places on election day
I can't agree with this one.
Sorry for going into politics, but...
Elections should be a secure procedure. Security concepts are evolving, as parties involved are becoming more aggressive and understanding of problems evolves. There is also a complication with identity verification and anonymizing results. Keeping as much of the process as possible exposed to public and monitors; and verifyable is the way problem is approached so far. Thats not the only option, but most traditional one.
With that....
A lot of recent policies are aimed at reducing elections security - possibly as unintended effect (if you believe in "unintended" part, I have some highway bridges for sale real cheap). Mail-in voting aka ballot harvesting, no government ID verification, early voting without monitors present, ballot photos are great examples of security backdoors which may not be used YET.
YET is the keyword.
On the same page - a lot of security aspects in our lives is evolving. We may dislike 2FA it is used more and more frequently. Chip-enabled credit cards are a mainstream. We still have door locks mostly preventing honest people from accidentally walking in - but now they are often supplemented with cameras...
Without getting too far into politics, I can't agree with a lot of this either.
Quote from: CtrlAltDel on January 09, 2023, 01:20:49 PM
Quote from: kalvado on January 09, 2023, 01:18:18 PM
Quote from: CtrlAltDel on January 09, 2023, 12:55:22 PM
Quote from: mgk920 on January 08, 2023, 01:19:02 PM
- Voting at locations and times other than your local polling places on election day
I can't agree with this one.
Sorry for going into politics, but...
Elections should be a secure procedure. Security concepts are evolving, as parties involved are becoming more aggressive and understanding of problems evolves. There is also a complication with identity verification and anonymizing results. Keeping as much of the process as possible exposed to public and monitors; and verifyable is the way problem is approached so far. Thats not the only option, but most traditional one.
With that....
A lot of recent policies are aimed at reducing elections security - possibly as unintended effect (if you believe in "unintended" part, I have some highway bridges for sale real cheap). Mail-in voting aka ballot harvesting, no government ID verification, early voting without monitors present, ballot photos are great examples of security backdoors which may not be used YET.
YET is the keyword.
On the same page - a lot of security aspects in our lives is evolving. We may dislike 2FA it is used more and more frequently. Chip-enabled credit cards are a mainstream. We still have door locks mostly preventing honest people from accidentally walking in - but now they are often supplemented with cameras...
Without getting too far into politics, I can't agree with a lot of this either.
Without going blue vs red, can you talk about how you would suggest voting policies implements in Alanland?
Quote from: MultiMillionMiler on January 07, 2023, 08:59:02 PM
Every gluten free food I have tried tasted absolutely horrible or upset my stomach. Don't do that to your future kids over paranoid fears. I ate so much junk food an
as a kid, still do sometimes, and my physical health is fine.
Just coming back to this since I was off the forum for a couple of days. So basically, all fruits, all vegetables, all meats, all dairy products, etc. taste horrible and upset your stomach?
Not to get into it and either, but it's paranoia. No amount of voting "anomalies" could offset an 8,000,000 or 11,000,000 majority for example. That's all I'm gonna say about that.
Quote from: kalvado on January 09, 2023, 01:18:18 PMThere is also a complication with identity verification and anonymizing results.
It would be impossible to completely anonymize mail-in voting. If you vote in person, and your ballot can't be counted, the issue can be fixed on the spot. If you vote by mail, then you really have no choice but to allow your ballot to be tied to you.
And if you think there's a massive issue with "identity verification," then I suggest you read up on voting procedures in jurisdictions that don't require every voter to show ID.
Also, a friendly reminder that the below is a complete list of elections where voter fraud was widespread and significant enough that it altered the results of the election:
Quote from: MultiMillionMiler on January 09, 2023, 01:25:46 PM
Not to get into it and either, but it's paranoia. No amount of voting "anomalies" could offset an 8,000,000 or 11,000,000 majority for example. That's all I'm gonna say about that.
Correct me if I am wrong, but Bush II vs Al Gore boiled down to a much smaller number of ballots. Presidential elections are decided in swing states, representative majorities on different levels are decided in swing districts....
Quote from: kalvado on January 09, 2023, 01:36:51 PM
Quote from: MultiMillionMiler on January 09, 2023, 01:25:46 PM
Not to get into it and either, but it's paranoia. No amount of voting "anomalies" could offset an 8,000,000 or 11,000,000 majority for example. That's all I'm gonna say about that.
Correct me if I am wrong, but Bush II vs Al Gore boiled down to a much smaller number of ballots. Presidential elections are decided in swing states, representative majorities on different levels are decided in swing districts....
I agree, the Electoral College is a scam. Get rid of that and there won't be any elections decided by swing states/districts, or by small margins (Gore won the national popular vote by about one million votes, as I recall).
Quote from: kalvado on January 09, 2023, 01:18:18 PM
Quote from: CtrlAltDel on January 09, 2023, 12:55:22 PM
Quote from: mgk920 on January 08, 2023, 01:19:02 PM
- Voting at locations and times other than your local polling places on election day
I can't agree with this one.
Sorry for going into politics, but...
Elections should be a secure procedure. Security concepts are evolving, as parties involved are becoming more aggressive and understanding of problems evolves. There is also a complication with identity verification and anonymizing results. Keeping as much of the process as possible exposed to public and monitors; and verifyable is the way problem is approached so far. Thats not the only option, but most traditional one.
With that....
A lot of recent policies are aimed at reducing elections security - possibly as unintended effect (if you believe in "unintended" part, I have some highway bridges for sale real cheap). Mail-in voting aka ballot harvesting, no government ID verification, early voting without monitors present, ballot photos are great examples of security backdoors which may not be used YET.
YET is the keyword.
On the same page - a lot of security aspects in our lives is evolving. We may dislike 2FA it is used more and more frequently. Chip-enabled credit cards are a mainstream. We still have door locks mostly preventing honest people from accidentally walking in - but now they are often supplemented with cameras...
Solving a voter fraud problem that doesn't exist.
Quote from: abefroman329 on January 09, 2023, 01:41:01 PM
Quote from: kalvado on January 09, 2023, 01:36:51 PM
Quote from: MultiMillionMiler on January 09, 2023, 01:25:46 PM
Not to get into it and either, but it's paranoia. No amount of voting "anomalies" could offset an 8,000,000 or 11,000,000 majority for example. That's all I'm gonna say about that.
Correct me if I am wrong, but Bush II vs Al Gore boiled down to a much smaller number of ballots. Presidential elections are decided in swing states, representative majorities on different levels are decided in swing districts....
I agree, the Electoral College is a scam. Get rid of that and there won't be any elections decided by swing states/districts, or by small margins (Gore won the national popular vote by about one million votes, as I recall).
The biggest problem with that it one word - 'recount'. Also, the USA's midsection (aka 'flyover country') world really become FLYOVER COUNTRY - only the interests of the biggest urban markets would ever get any attention from the media and the people in charge (those founding fathers™ were really smart people!).
Mike
Quote from: Rothman on January 09, 2023, 01:45:58 PM
Quote from: kalvado on January 09, 2023, 01:18:18 PM
Quote from: CtrlAltDel on January 09, 2023, 12:55:22 PM
Quote from: mgk920 on January 08, 2023, 01:19:02 PM
- Voting at locations and times other than your local polling places on election day
I can't agree with this one.
Sorry for going into politics, but...
Elections should be a secure procedure. Security concepts are evolving, as parties involved are becoming more aggressive and understanding of problems evolves. There is also a complication with identity verification and anonymizing results. Keeping as much of the process as possible exposed to public and monitors; and verifyable is the way problem is approached so far. Thats not the only option, but most traditional one.
With that....
A lot of recent policies are aimed at reducing elections security - possibly as unintended effect (if you believe in "unintended" part, I have some highway bridges for sale real cheap). Mail-in voting aka ballot harvesting, no government ID verification, early voting without monitors present, ballot photos are great examples of security backdoors which may not be used YET.
YET is the keyword.
On the same page - a lot of security aspects in our lives is evolving. We may dislike 2FA it is used more and more frequently. Chip-enabled credit cards are a mainstream. We still have door locks mostly preventing honest people from accidentally walking in - but now they are often supplemented with cameras...
Solving a voter fraud problem that doesn't exist.
There is no IT security problem until you are hacked or crime problem until you are robbed..
Rensselaer county election commissioner got federal charges filed, but that is too far away, right?
Quote from: abefroman329 on January 09, 2023, 01:41:01 PM
Quote from: kalvado on January 09, 2023, 01:36:51 PM
Quote from: MultiMillionMiler on January 09, 2023, 01:25:46 PM
Not to get into it and either, but it's paranoia. No amount of voting "anomalies" could offset an 8,000,000 or 11,000,000 majority for example. That's all I'm gonna say about that.
Correct me if I am wrong, but Bush II vs Al Gore boiled down to a much smaller number of ballots. Presidential elections are decided in swing states, representative majorities on different levels are decided in swing districts....
I agree, the Electoral College is a scam. Get rid of that and there won't be any elections decided by swing states/districts, or by small margins (Gore won the national popular vote by about one million votes, as I recall).
Still there is house of representatives which is divided close to 50-50, and majority party would have a few representatives who won by a small margin.
It may be the same at any representation level, it's a feature of a system - electing a single representative into a bigger body is prone to that.
Any political system other than a direct democracy is a scam.
Quote from: MultiMillionMiler on January 09, 2023, 02:20:14 PM
Any political system other than a direct democracy is a scam.
Says the guy who doesn't vote.
Quote from: MultiMillionMiler on January 09, 2023, 02:20:14 PM
Any political system other than a direct democracy is a scam.
Pure democracy to me is a scam. The 51% majority can get what it wants, leaving the 49% at their mercy. Democracy works when it has checks and balances (such as how the US was originally envisioned).
Quote from: CoreySamson on January 09, 2023, 02:35:43 PM
Quote from: MultiMillionMiler on January 09, 2023, 02:20:14 PM
Any political system other than a direct democracy is a scam.
Pure democracy to me is a scam. The 51% majority can get what it wants, leaving the 49% at their mercy. Democracy works when it has checks and balances (such as how the US was originally envisioned).
Not even that. Democracy works best when most (not 50%+1 vote) people share common goals and common grand vision. You cannot have democracy in a group of rabbits and wolves.
Quote from: MultiMillionMiler on January 09, 2023, 02:38:14 PM
That's exactly why I don't vote. Why bother in a state where there's a 7 to 1 majority of one party to the other, and therefore your vote will not change anything for EITHER candidate. Even for governor I disliked both Zeldin and Kathy, so what's the point?
Ironic coming from the part of the country with the biggest House GOP upsets.
Quote from: mgk920 on January 09, 2023, 01:52:11 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on January 09, 2023, 01:41:01 PM
Quote from: kalvado on January 09, 2023, 01:36:51 PM
Quote from: MultiMillionMiler on January 09, 2023, 01:25:46 PM
Not to get into it and either, but it's paranoia. No amount of voting "anomalies" could offset an 8,000,000 or 11,000,000 majority for example. That's all I'm gonna say about that.
Correct me if I am wrong, but Bush II vs Al Gore boiled down to a much smaller number of ballots. Presidential elections are decided in swing states, representative majorities on different levels are decided in swing districts....
I agree, the Electoral College is a scam. Get rid of that and there won't be any elections decided by swing states/districts, or by small margins (Gore won the national popular vote by about one million votes, as I recall).
The biggest problem with that it one word - 'recount'. Also, the USA's midsection (aka 'flyover country') world really become FLYOVER COUNTRY - only the interests of the biggest urban markets would ever get any attention from the media and the people in charge (those founding fathers™ were really smart people!).
Mike
So everyone's vote would count equally? How awful
Quote from: mgk920 on January 08, 2023, 01:19:02 PM
- Voting at locations and times other than your local polling places on election day
You can pry my mail voting from my cold, dead hands.
I am not waiting in line for hours to vote in a rushed manner when I could fill out my ballot from the comfort of home with plenty of time to actually research candidates and their policies. Mail voting increases turnout and makes it more accessible than polling stations ever could; in a truly democratic society, we'd all be using it.
I should note that Washington has had mail voting for over a decade and entrusted it to a Republican Secretary of State until very recently. The only real hiccups were either caused by DeJoy's USPS or the standard failed verifications (https://www.opb.org/article/2022/11/01/why-does-washington-state-reject-tens-of-thousands-of-ballots-hint-its-not-fraud/) that get rejected and have to be replaced. In 2016, an audit of Washington elections found only 2 fraudulent ballots (both non-counted) out of 3.25 million cast.
2 votes out of
3,245,282.
Quote from: Bruce on January 09, 2023, 03:51:29 PM
Quote from: mgk920 on January 08, 2023, 01:19:02 PM
- Voting at locations and times other than your local polling places on election day
You can pry my mail voting from my cold, dead hands.
I am not waiting in line for hours to vote in a rushed manner when I could fill out my ballot from the comfort of home with plenty of time to actually research candidates and their policies. Mail voting increases turnout and makes it more accessible than polling stations ever could; in a truly democratic society, we'd all be using it.
Ok, and how about $50 for that ballot so I can take the burden of research from you?
Quote from: Bruce on January 09, 2023, 03:51:29 PM
Quote from: mgk920 on January 08, 2023, 01:19:02 PM
- Voting at locations and times other than your local polling places on election day
You can pry my mail voting from my cold, dead hands.
I am not waiting in line for hours to vote in a rushed manner when I could fill out my ballot from the comfort of home with plenty of time to actually research candidates and their policies. Mail voting increases turnout and makes it more accessible than polling stations ever could; in a truly democratic society, we'd all be using it.
How does one's voting option impact the amount of time they have to research candidates and their positions? Anyone who actually wants to do this won't be going to a polling place on election day to only find out about the candidates for the first time. If they do, then they ignored the sample ballot and all other news and social media coverage about the candidates.
Quote from: kalvado on January 09, 2023, 03:53:43 PM
Quote from: Bruce on January 09, 2023, 03:51:29 PM
Quote from: mgk920 on January 08, 2023, 01:19:02 PM
- Voting at locations and times other than your local polling places on election day
You can pry my mail voting from my cold, dead hands.
I am not waiting in line for hours to vote in a rushed manner when I could fill out my ballot from the comfort of home with plenty of time to actually research candidates and their policies. Mail voting increases turnout and makes it more accessible than polling stations ever could; in a truly democratic society, we'd all be using it.
Ok, and how about $50 for that ballot so I can take the burden of research from you?
And how does requiring votes to be done in-person prevent any of that? I could offer money for votes to any of the bored people waiting in long lines.
Also should note that mail votes are less effected by weather or freak events. The mail might be delayed for those who wait until close to Election Day, but people are still able to cast their ballots.
Quote from: jeffandnicole on January 09, 2023, 03:58:07 PM
How does one's voting option impact the amount of time they have to research candidates and their positions? Anyone who actually wants to do this won't be going to a polling place on election day to only find out about the candidates for the first time. If they do, then they ignored the sample ballot and all other news and social media coverage about the candidates.
Even an informed voter like myself would be hard-pressed to memorize or note all the candidates in smaller elections. There might be 30+ elections to pick with hundreds of candidates in the primaries.
Quote from: Bruce on January 09, 2023, 03:58:21 PM
Quote from: kalvado on January 09, 2023, 03:53:43 PM
Quote from: Bruce on January 09, 2023, 03:51:29 PM
Quote from: mgk920 on January 08, 2023, 01:19:02 PM
- Voting at locations and times other than your local polling places on election day
You can pry my mail voting from my cold, dead hands.
I am not waiting in line for hours to vote in a rushed manner when I could fill out my ballot from the comfort of home with plenty of time to actually research candidates and their policies. Mail voting increases turnout and makes it more accessible than polling stations ever could; in a truly democratic society, we'd all be using it.
Ok, and how about $50 for that ballot so I can take the burden of research from you?
And how does requiring votes to be done in-person prevent any of that? I could offer money for votes to any of the bored people waiting in long lines.
Also should note that mail votes are less effected by weather or freak events. The mail might be delayed for those who wait until close to Election Day, but people are still able to cast their ballots.
Quote from: jeffandnicole on January 09, 2023, 03:58:07 PM
How does one's voting option impact the amount of time they have to research candidates and their positions? Anyone who actually wants to do this won't be going to a polling place on election day to only find out about the candidates for the first time. If they do, then they ignored the sample ballot and all other news and social media coverage about the candidates.
Even an informed voter like myself would be hard-pressed to memorize or note all the candidates in smaller elections. There might be 30+ elections to pick with hundreds of candidates in the primaries.
Idea is that payer has no way to verify the vote actually cast in-person as poll location is public and monitored, someone looking at your ballot would quickly get flagged. Otherwise you're free to collect $50 and vote the way you want, not the way you're paid for. That's why some places also have a ban on ballot pictures, and the actual ballot marking process is private.
You can easily let someone check the ballot before mailing (or mark and mail it for you) in exchange for cash. .
There are some interesting engineered approaches to keep process confidential and verifiable at the same time. Of course those don't resolve long lines or 20+ hour working days for poll workers.
If anything, I can see online vote with an opportunity to change your vote up until poll closing (vote A, get $50, walk away, re-vote B). That would require a method for robust personal identification online, something that is easier to say than to do. For example, SSN as a passcode is a fairly lame attempt causing significant problems... We're even struggling with robust personal identification in-person....
Quote from: kalvado on January 09, 2023, 04:15:45 PM
Quote from: Bruce on January 09, 2023, 03:58:21 PM
Quote from: kalvado on January 09, 2023, 03:53:43 PM
Quote from: Bruce on January 09, 2023, 03:51:29 PM
Quote from: mgk920 on January 08, 2023, 01:19:02 PM
- Voting at locations and times other than your local polling places on election day
You can pry my mail voting from my cold, dead hands.
I am not waiting in line for hours to vote in a rushed manner when I could fill out my ballot from the comfort of home with plenty of time to actually research candidates and their policies. Mail voting increases turnout and makes it more accessible than polling stations ever could; in a truly democratic society, we'd all be using it.
Ok, and how about $50 for that ballot so I can take the burden of research from you?
And how does requiring votes to be done in-person prevent any of that? I could offer money for votes to any of the bored people waiting in long lines.
Also should note that mail votes are less effected by weather or freak events. The mail might be delayed for those who wait until close to Election Day, but people are still able to cast their ballots.
Quote from: jeffandnicole on January 09, 2023, 03:58:07 PM
How does one's voting option impact the amount of time they have to research candidates and their positions? Anyone who actually wants to do this won't be going to a polling place on election day to only find out about the candidates for the first time. If they do, then they ignored the sample ballot and all other news and social media coverage about the candidates.
Even an informed voter like myself would be hard-pressed to memorize or note all the candidates in smaller elections. There might be 30+ elections to pick with hundreds of candidates in the primaries.
Idea is that payer has no way to verify the vote actually cast in-person as poll location is public and monitored, someone looking at your ballot would quickly get flagged. Otherwise you're free to collect $50 and vote the way you want, not the way you're paid for. That's why some places also have a ban on ballot pictures, and the actual ballot marking process is private.
You can easily let someone check the ballot before mailing (or mark and mail it for you) in exchange for cash. .
There are some interesting engineered approaches to keep process confidential and verifiable at the same time. Of course those don't resolve long lines or 20+ hour working days for poll workers.
If anything, I can see online vote with an opportunity to change your vote up until poll closing (vote A, get $50, walk away, re-vote B). That would require a method for robust personal identification online, something that is easier to say than to do. For example, SSN as a passcode is a fairly lame attempt causing significant problems... We're even struggling with robust personal identification in-person....
Or you can just do it the easy way that causes no problems -- mail in voting.
Quote from: JayhawkCO on January 09, 2023, 04:18:09 PM
Quote from: kalvado on January 09, 2023, 04:15:45 PM
Quote from: Bruce on January 09, 2023, 03:58:21 PM
Quote from: kalvado on January 09, 2023, 03:53:43 PM
Quote from: Bruce on January 09, 2023, 03:51:29 PM
Quote from: mgk920 on January 08, 2023, 01:19:02 PM
- Voting at locations and times other than your local polling places on election day
You can pry my mail voting from my cold, dead hands.
I am not waiting in line for hours to vote in a rushed manner when I could fill out my ballot from the comfort of home with plenty of time to actually research candidates and their policies. Mail voting increases turnout and makes it more accessible than polling stations ever could; in a truly democratic society, we'd all be using it.
Ok, and how about $50 for that ballot so I can take the burden of research from you?
And how does requiring votes to be done in-person prevent any of that? I could offer money for votes to any of the bored people waiting in long lines.
Also should note that mail votes are less effected by weather or freak events. The mail might be delayed for those who wait until close to Election Day, but people are still able to cast their ballots.
Quote from: jeffandnicole on January 09, 2023, 03:58:07 PM
How does one's voting option impact the amount of time they have to research candidates and their positions? Anyone who actually wants to do this won't be going to a polling place on election day to only find out about the candidates for the first time. If they do, then they ignored the sample ballot and all other news and social media coverage about the candidates.
Even an informed voter like myself would be hard-pressed to memorize or note all the candidates in smaller elections. There might be 30+ elections to pick with hundreds of candidates in the primaries.
Idea is that payer has no way to verify the vote actually cast in-person as poll location is public and monitored, someone looking at your ballot would quickly get flagged. Otherwise you're free to collect $50 and vote the way you want, not the way you're paid for. That's why some places also have a ban on ballot pictures, and the actual ballot marking process is private.
You can easily let someone check the ballot before mailing (or mark and mail it for you) in exchange for cash. .
There are some interesting engineered approaches to keep process confidential and verifiable at the same time. Of course those don't resolve long lines or 20+ hour working days for poll workers.
If anything, I can see online vote with an opportunity to change your vote up until poll closing (vote A, get $50, walk away, re-vote B). That would require a method for robust personal identification online, something that is easier to say than to do. For example, SSN as a passcode is a fairly lame attempt causing significant problems... We're even struggling with robust personal identification in-person....
Or you can just do it the easy way that causes no problems -- mail in voting.
Mail-in is not secure.
I am against bans on ballot selfies too. I routinely take a camera copy of my voted ballot--not because I sell my vote (which is illegal at both ends of the transaction), and not because I post it online to say I have voted, but rather to keep myself honest when some official or other makes an ass of himself or herself and I think to myself, "I can't possibly have voted for him or her."
Kansas does not ban ballot selfies, though in state law there is a ban on disclosure of individual votes that applies to persons having election duty, not voters.
Quote from: kalvado on January 09, 2023, 04:15:45 PM
Quote from: Bruce on January 09, 2023, 03:58:21 PM
Quote from: kalvado on January 09, 2023, 03:53:43 PM
Quote from: Bruce on January 09, 2023, 03:51:29 PM
Quote from: mgk920 on January 08, 2023, 01:19:02 PM
- Voting at locations and times other than your local polling places on election day
You can pry my mail voting from my cold, dead hands.
I am not waiting in line for hours to vote in a rushed manner when I could fill out my ballot from the comfort of home with plenty of time to actually research candidates and their policies. Mail voting increases turnout and makes it more accessible than polling stations ever could; in a truly democratic society, we'd all be using it.
Ok, and how about $50 for that ballot so I can take the burden of research from you?
And how does requiring votes to be done in-person prevent any of that? I could offer money for votes to any of the bored people waiting in long lines.
Also should note that mail votes are less effected by weather or freak events. The mail might be delayed for those who wait until close to Election Day, but people are still able to cast their ballots.
Quote from: jeffandnicole on January 09, 2023, 03:58:07 PM
How does one's voting option impact the amount of time they have to research candidates and their positions? Anyone who actually wants to do this won't be going to a polling place on election day to only find out about the candidates for the first time. If they do, then they ignored the sample ballot and all other news and social media coverage about the candidates.
Even an informed voter like myself would be hard-pressed to memorize or note all the candidates in smaller elections. There might be 30+ elections to pick with hundreds of candidates in the primaries.
Idea is that payer has no way to verify the vote actually cast in-person as poll location is public and monitored, someone looking at your ballot would quickly get flagged. Otherwise you're free to collect $50 and vote the way you want, not the way you're paid for. That's why some places also have a ban on ballot pictures, and the actual ballot marking process is private.
You can easily let someone check the ballot before mailing (or mark and mail it for you) in exchange for cash. .
There are some interesting engineered approaches to keep process confidential and verifiable at the same time. Of course those don't resolve long lines or 20+ hour working days for poll workers.
If anything, I can see online vote with an opportunity to change your vote up until poll closing (vote A, get $50, walk away, re-vote B). That would require a method for robust personal identification online, something that is easier to say than to do. For example, SSN as a passcode is a fairly lame attempt causing significant problems... We're even struggling with robust personal identification in-person....
If you had even a basic understanding of how election laws work as they stand now, then you wouldn't be asking some of the questions you're asking.
Quote from: kalvado on January 09, 2023, 04:20:00 PM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on January 09, 2023, 04:18:09 PM
Quote from: kalvado on January 09, 2023, 04:15:45 PM
Quote from: Bruce on January 09, 2023, 03:58:21 PM
Quote from: kalvado on January 09, 2023, 03:53:43 PM
Quote from: Bruce on January 09, 2023, 03:51:29 PM
Quote from: mgk920 on January 08, 2023, 01:19:02 PM
- Voting at locations and times other than your local polling places on election day
You can pry my mail voting from my cold, dead hands.
I am not waiting in line for hours to vote in a rushed manner when I could fill out my ballot from the comfort of home with plenty of time to actually research candidates and their policies. Mail voting increases turnout and makes it more accessible than polling stations ever could; in a truly democratic society, we'd all be using it.
Ok, and how about $50 for that ballot so I can take the burden of research from you?
And how does requiring votes to be done in-person prevent any of that? I could offer money for votes to any of the bored people waiting in long lines.
Also should note that mail votes are less effected by weather or freak events. The mail might be delayed for those who wait until close to Election Day, but people are still able to cast their ballots.
Quote from: jeffandnicole on January 09, 2023, 03:58:07 PM
How does one's voting option impact the amount of time they have to research candidates and their positions? Anyone who actually wants to do this won't be going to a polling place on election day to only find out about the candidates for the first time. If they do, then they ignored the sample ballot and all other news and social media coverage about the candidates.
Even an informed voter like myself would be hard-pressed to memorize or note all the candidates in smaller elections. There might be 30+ elections to pick with hundreds of candidates in the primaries.
Idea is that payer has no way to verify the vote actually cast in-person as poll location is public and monitored, someone looking at your ballot would quickly get flagged. Otherwise you're free to collect $50 and vote the way you want, not the way you're paid for. That's why some places also have a ban on ballot pictures, and the actual ballot marking process is private.
You can easily let someone check the ballot before mailing (or mark and mail it for you) in exchange for cash. .
There are some interesting engineered approaches to keep process confidential and verifiable at the same time. Of course those don't resolve long lines or 20+ hour working days for poll workers.
If anything, I can see online vote with an opportunity to change your vote up until poll closing (vote A, get $50, walk away, re-vote B). That would require a method for robust personal identification online, something that is easier to say than to do. For example, SSN as a passcode is a fairly lame attempt causing significant problems... We're even struggling with robust personal identification in-person....
Or you can just do it the easy way that causes no problems -- mail in voting.
Mail-in is not secure.
Says you. Colorado has been doing it since 2013 with no issues. I get a text when my ballot is mailed to me, delivered to me, received for counting, and counted. We have the best system in the country.
Quote from: abefroman329 on January 09, 2023, 04:28:48 PM
Quote from: kalvado on January 09, 2023, 04:15:45 PM
Quote from: Bruce on January 09, 2023, 03:58:21 PM
Quote from: kalvado on January 09, 2023, 03:53:43 PM
Quote from: Bruce on January 09, 2023, 03:51:29 PM
Quote from: mgk920 on January 08, 2023, 01:19:02 PM
- Voting at locations and times other than your local polling places on election day
You can pry my mail voting from my cold, dead hands.
I am not waiting in line for hours to vote in a rushed manner when I could fill out my ballot from the comfort of home with plenty of time to actually research candidates and their policies. Mail voting increases turnout and makes it more accessible than polling stations ever could; in a truly democratic society, we'd all be using it.
Ok, and how about $50 for that ballot so I can take the burden of research from you?
And how does requiring votes to be done in-person prevent any of that? I could offer money for votes to any of the bored people waiting in long lines.
Also should note that mail votes are less effected by weather or freak events. The mail might be delayed for those who wait until close to Election Day, but people are still able to cast their ballots.
Quote from: jeffandnicole on January 09, 2023, 03:58:07 PM
How does one's voting option impact the amount of time they have to research candidates and their positions? Anyone who actually wants to do this won't be going to a polling place on election day to only find out about the candidates for the first time. If they do, then they ignored the sample ballot and all other news and social media coverage about the candidates.
Even an informed voter like myself would be hard-pressed to memorize or note all the candidates in smaller elections. There might be 30+ elections to pick with hundreds of candidates in the primaries.
Idea is that payer has no way to verify the vote actually cast in-person as poll location is public and monitored, someone looking at your ballot would quickly get flagged. Otherwise you're free to collect $50 and vote the way you want, not the way you're paid for. That's why some places also have a ban on ballot pictures, and the actual ballot marking process is private.
You can easily let someone check the ballot before mailing (or mark and mail it for you) in exchange for cash. .
There are some interesting engineered approaches to keep process confidential and verifiable at the same time. Of course those don't resolve long lines or 20+ hour working days for poll workers.
If anything, I can see online vote with an opportunity to change your vote up until poll closing (vote A, get $50, walk away, re-vote B). That would require a method for robust personal identification online, something that is easier to say than to do. For example, SSN as a passcode is a fairly lame attempt causing significant problems... We're even struggling with robust personal identification in-person....
If you had even a basic understanding of how election laws work as they stand now, then you wouldn't be asking some of the questions you're asking.
That's the fun part about security - you need to look at how things MAY work as opposed to how they SHOULD work. If you had even a basic understanding of how traffic laws work as they stand now, then you wouldn't be expecting to see average speeds I do see.
I have never been a user. I don't smoke anything, and I don't drink. Every person I have ever met who habitually smokes marijuana always:
A) Tells me they are not addicted and can quit anytime.
B) Gets mad at me for not trying it (I still don't know why they even care).
C) Goes on and on about how safe it is.
D) Then proceeds to space out constantly, and the ones I worked with, would need to be told several times how to do the most menial tasks.
Maybe all of the hundreds of people I have met who smoke the stuff were all naturally dingbats anyway (so smoking it truly had no effect), although I do have a hard time with that one because the people I worked with that smoked it would be just a little crappy at their job without smoking, go hide somewhere to smoke and come back to work unable to even walk or concentrate. You can come at me with all the statistics you want about how safe and harmless it is, but I know if it didn't affect your mind in some way then people wouldn't do it, and to think that the mind-altering effect it has is 100% temporary and doesn't have a long-term effect is naive and just ignorant. Everything you eat or drink has a permanent effect on you so why wouldn't this?
I have experienced enough potheads to see that it can be addictive, people who are habitually doing it are compromised someway and I do not trust anyone behind the wheel of a car who is on the stuff no matter what statistics you pull up after watching the many vacant stares I have witnessed with people on the stuff (do you think I want someone spacing out when they drive? Drivers are crappy enough stone cold sober). I don't care if anyone does it, but to act like it is healthy and just as organic as drinking water is just wrong. Do it all you want, but I am not changing my mind that I want to stay far away from it.
Also any rewards program from a retailer is a scam.
Quote from: kalvado on January 09, 2023, 04:34:15 PMThat's the fun part about security - you need to look at how things MAY work as opposed to how they SHOULD work.
Presumably you also need to look at the current safeguards in place and whether they're sufficient to solve issues that MAY come up. And you haven't done that with election laws.
Quote from: kalvado on January 09, 2023, 04:34:15 PMIf you had even a basic understanding of how traffic laws work as they stand now, then you wouldn't be expecting to see average speeds I do see.
...no idea what this means, but ok.
Quote from: ethanhopkin14 on January 09, 2023, 05:05:58 PM
Also any rewards program from a retailer is a scam.
Absolutely not. For IHOP in particular, I think they're actually losing money on me. Other restaurants, like UNO, Outback, and Friendly's, are 1 in 16, 1 in 14, and 1 in 15 back, respectively.
Quote from: ethanhopkin14 on January 09, 2023, 05:05:58 PMMaybe all of the hundreds of people I have met who smoke the stuff were all naturally dingbats anyway (so smoking it truly had no effect)
And maybe the fact that all the people I've known who brag about not smoking anything or drinking are pious, judgmental pricks is a big coincidence. Who can say.
Addiction comes in many forms and they all light up the exact same part of your brain. And everybody has their own unhealthy coping skills. No need to break your arm jacking yourself off just because alcohol and marijuana aren't on your list.
Quote from: kalvado on January 09, 2023, 03:53:43 PM
Quote from: Bruce on January 09, 2023, 03:51:29 PM
Quote from: mgk920 on January 08, 2023, 01:19:02 PM
- Voting at locations and times other than your local polling places on election day
You can pry my mail voting from my cold, dead hands.
I am not waiting in line for hours to vote in a rushed manner when I could fill out my ballot from the comfort of home with plenty of time to actually research candidates and their policies. Mail voting increases turnout and makes it more accessible than polling stations ever could; in a truly democratic society, we'd all be using it.
Ok, and how about $50 for that ballot so I can take the burden of research from you?
I'm not Bruce, but I am from Washington State. If anything less of the BS administrative time of walking down to a polling place, waiting in line, marking the paper, and then waiting in line again to feed it into the machine leaves the voter with MORE time that they might use to research candidates. Having your sample ballot and computer in the comfort of your home before election day saves time and lets voters work in comfort. It also saves time to drop off your ballot at any of many convenient drop boxes within the county.
Voters must still show their ID in order to get registered to vote or to change their address. If a hypothetical bad guy intercepts the ballot, 1. they still have to sign it, and County elections will check it against the signature under which they registered. 2. the voter will probably notice, hey, my ballot hasn't come, and request a replacement. Then Elections will hold them both for close examination and probably discover the signature mismatch.
Moving the counting away from hundreds of separate precincts to a single Elections office in each county means every verification and counting operation is subject to examination by observers from both parties and the press. In that way it is considerably more secure than having every precinct count their own.
Quote from: abefroman329 on January 09, 2023, 05:12:18 PM
Quote from: kalvado on January 09, 2023, 04:34:15 PMThat's the fun part about security - you need to look at how things MAY work as opposed to how they SHOULD work.
Presumably you also need to look at the current safeguards in place and whether they're sufficient to solve issues that MAY come up. And you haven't done that with election laws.
Quote from: kalvado on January 09, 2023, 04:34:15 PMIf you had even a basic understanding of how traffic laws work as they stand now, then you wouldn't be expecting to see average speeds I do see.
...no idea what this means, but ok.
.
A common wisdom from OSHA is that safety compliance is better achieved by engineering the process rather than by regulating things. System which doesn't give people an opportunity to get into trouble is much better than a system which requires action or enforcement to keep things going safely.
If you have to appeal to paper safeguards, you already loosing control.
Even OSHA gets it right....
I think we can do without OSHA. Too many rules that can't be enforced and a society that don't follow rules.
Quote from: roadman65 on January 09, 2023, 05:38:50 PM
I think we can do without OSHA. Too many rules that can't be enforced and a society that don't follow rules.
I tend believe the opposite. As someone who has managed safety programs for the better part of two decades I know full well a lot of employers would put their employees deliberately at risk if permitted to. Most accidents and claims I deal with now are born out of the stupidity of an employee, not the employer. The fear of OSH laws keeps a lot of employers in check.
Some more scams:
astrology
The wedding-industrial complex
privatization
acupuncture
past life regression
Myers-Briggs "personality types"
any product with the word "smart" in it
public financing for privately owned sports venues
antioxidants
bottled water
"super foods"
"premium"
"gourmet"
flushable wipes (they are NOT flushable and will clog your sewers! Look up "fat berg" and learn.)
homeopathy
psychics
I saw this stupid thing on TV once; it was literally a baseball hat with LED lights they said helped with hair loss somehow. So obviously a scam.
Extra shout out when people combine two or more scams.
like multi-level marketing for essential oils
or psychics who talk to ancient aliens
My chiropractor recommended non-GMO, free range superfood antioxidants to help with my Havana Syndrome.
Quote from: kkt on January 09, 2023, 05:33:12 PM
Quote from: kalvado on January 09, 2023, 03:53:43 PM
Quote from: Bruce on January 09, 2023, 03:51:29 PM
Quote from: mgk920 on January 08, 2023, 01:19:02 PM
- Voting at locations and times other than your local polling places on election day
You can pry my mail voting from my cold, dead hands.
I am not waiting in line for hours to vote in a rushed manner when I could fill out my ballot from the comfort of home with plenty of time to actually research candidates and their policies. Mail voting increases turnout and makes it more accessible than polling stations ever could; in a truly democratic society, we'd all be using it.
Ok, and how about $50 for that ballot so I can take the burden of research from you?
I'm not Bruce, but I am from Washington State. If anything less of the BS administrative time of walking down to a polling place, waiting in line, marking the paper, and then waiting in line again to feed it into the machine leaves the voter with MORE time that they might use to research candidates. Having your sample ballot and computer in the comfort of your home before election day saves time and lets voters work in comfort. It also saves time to drop off your ballot at any of many convenient drop boxes within the county.
Voters must still show their ID in order to get registered to vote or to change their address. If a hypothetical bad guy intercepts the ballot, 1. they still have to sign it, and County elections will check it against the signature under which they registered. 2. the voter will probably notice, hey, my ballot hasn't come, and request a replacement. Then Elections will hold them both for close examination and probably discover the signature mismatch.
Moving the counting away from hundreds of separate precincts to a single Elections office in each county means every verification and counting operation is subject to examination by observers from both parties and the press. In that way it is considerably more secure than having every precinct count their own.
Lines are definitely not a designed part of an honest process (although someone here in NY found a way to use lines to engineer the vote, but that is a different story).
And there are several aspects. Most people on this forum seem to be willing to play by the rules. It's not universally true across the population, though. Poverty, addiction, indifference can play a role. Protecting voter from having their honest vote changed is one thing; protecting process from less-than-honest voters is another. Keeping everyone honest - even despite their will - is the way I am looking at it.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on January 09, 2023, 05:43:20 PM
Quote from: roadman65 on January 09, 2023, 05:38:50 PM
I think we can do without OSHA. Too many rules that can't be enforced and a society that don't follow rules.
I tend believe the opposite. As someone who has managed safety programs for the better part of two decades I know full well a lot of employers would put their employees deliberately at risk if permitted to. Most accidents and claims I deal with now are born out of the stupidity of an employee, not the employer. The fear of OSH laws keeps a lot of employers in check.
Do you think anybody ever reads the MDDS or whatever that large binder book is they require all restaurants and plants to have? Heck the MDDS says that Fantastic or Formula 409 is illegal to use to clean in a restaurant despite its ok to clean your own household with.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on January 09, 2023, 05:43:20 PM
Quote from: roadman65 on January 09, 2023, 05:38:50 PM
I think we can do without OSHA. Too many rules that can't be enforced and a society that don't follow rules.
I tend believe the opposite. As someone who has managed safety programs for the better part of two decades I know full well a lot of employers would put their employees deliberately at risk if permitted to. Most accidents and claims I deal with now are born out of the stupidity of an employee, not the employer. The fear of OSH laws keeps a lot of employers in check.
Everything is good at moderation. Did you ever have people spend a day before OSHA inspection bringing things up to standard and another day bringing them to usable condition? I saw people who openly said that is what they are doing...
Does OSHA overstep the threshold?...
Quote from: roadman65 on January 09, 2023, 05:48:06 PM
Do you think anybody ever reads the MDDS or whatever that large binder book is they require all restaurants and plants to have? Heck the MDDS says that Fantastic or Formula 409 is illegal to use to clean in a restaurant despite its ok to clean your own household with.
I certainly read MSDSes more than once. And more than once a month, actually. They became nearly useless after "improved and harmonized" SDS replaced MSDS... Talking about "overstepping"!
Those books are not so much for normal operation as they are for emergency use. I never saw anyone using a fire extinguisher....
^^^
Of course I've had people try to bring up to compliance at the last minute. When I do announced visits I call that "polishing the turd." Stuff like that is the primary reason I do most of my site visits and inspections unannounced.
My own observation is that OSHA generally doesn't overreach at first. But if you end up on OSHA's shit list you're on for a hard time avoiding being fined for nominal violations. That's not the right way to do things, but it's best to not even get on the radar of OSHA to begin with.
Quote from: roadman65 on January 09, 2023, 05:48:06 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on January 09, 2023, 05:43:20 PM
Quote from: roadman65 on January 09, 2023, 05:38:50 PM
I think we can do without OSHA. Too many rules that can't be enforced and a society that don't follow rules.
I tend believe the opposite. As someone who has managed safety programs for the better part of two decades I know full well a lot of employers would put their employees deliberately at risk if permitted to. Most accidents and claims I deal with now are born out of the stupidity of an employee, not the employer. The fear of OSH laws keeps a lot of employers in check.
Do you think anybody ever reads the MDDS or whatever that large binder book is they require all restaurants and plants to have? Heck the MDDS says that Fantastic or Formula 409 is illegal to use to clean in a restaurant despite its ok to clean your own household with.
Of course not (it's actually SDS now, not MSDS) outside of safety managers. Yeah sure, something like an SDS binder has no value to a non-safety person. All the same the fact that you are required have such a binder and maintain it somehow or risk a surprise OSHA visit where you could be cited/fined gets a lot of other safety items by extension into compliance. By no means am I defending every OSHA regulation, but the body does need to exist.
Expiration dates that are set Way Too Soon so that manufacturers hope their goods will just be thrown away and new ones bought.
Laundry care tags that prescribe excessively cautious care of clothing. Preshrunk solid color cotton T-shirts really are okay washed in "warm".
Yes the binder is like your appendix. Even though it’s a formality and it doesn’t help, it’s got to be there for show.
Just like flying the flag has to be flown on the left when indoors like on a stage or church altar. It serves no purpose to be solely on the left side of a room, yet congress once passed a bill that you can’t have the flag on the right.
Whether a flag is on the left or right doesn’t change the fact it’s there or not. Be glad you have the flag instead of creating protocol.
Quote from: roadman65 on January 09, 2023, 05:48:06 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on January 09, 2023, 05:43:20 PM
Quote from: roadman65 on January 09, 2023, 05:38:50 PM
I think we can do without OSHA. Too many rules that can't be enforced and a society that don't follow rules.
I tend believe the opposite. As someone who has managed safety programs for the better part of two decades I know full well a lot of employers would put their employees deliberately at risk if permitted to. Most accidents and claims I deal with now are born out of the stupidity of an employee, not the employer. The fear of OSH laws keeps a lot of employers in check.
Do you think anybody ever reads the MDDS or whatever that large binder book is they require all restaurants and plants to have? Heck the MDDS says that Fantastic or Formula 409 is illegal to use to clean in a restaurant despite its ok to clean your own household with.
There's lots of things you can do in your own house that you can't do in a restaurant. You're not allowed to dry dishes with a handtowel in a restaurant, for example. There's no sprinkler system or Exit signage in my house. And I'm not paying anyone to cook dinner tonight.
But handtowels are made of terry cloth and leave lint behind. Not very pretty, or tasty.
Amusingly when I mentioned hand washing dishes at home last night in a road group chat a lot of the commenters told I was being unsanitary.
Quote from: triplemultiplex on January 09, 2023, 05:43:40 PM
Extra shout out when people combine two or more scams.
like multi-level marketing for essential oils
or psychics who talk to ancient aliens
My chiropractor recommended non-GMO, free range superfood antioxidants to help with my Havana Syndrome.
Smart water
Quote from: jeffandnicole on January 09, 2023, 06:02:21 PM
Quote from: roadman65 on January 09, 2023, 05:48:06 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on January 09, 2023, 05:43:20 PM
Quote from: roadman65 on January 09, 2023, 05:38:50 PM
I think we can do without OSHA. Too many rules that can’t be enforced and a society that don’t follow rules.
I tend believe the opposite. As someone who has managed safety programs for the better part of two decades I know full well a lot of employers would put their employees deliberately at risk if permitted to. Most accidents and claims I deal with now are born out of the stupidity of an employee, not the employer. The fear of OSH laws keeps a lot of employers in check.
Do you think anybody ever reads the MDDS or whatever that large binder book is they require all restaurants and plants to have? Heck the MDDS says that Fantastic or Formula 409 is illegal to use to clean in a restaurant despite its ok to clean your own household with.
There's lots of things you can do in your own house that you can't do in a restaurant. You're not allowed to dry dishes with a handtowel in a restaurant, for example. There's no sprinkler system or Exit signage in my house. And I'm not paying anyone to cook dinner tonight.
If you don’t know where the nearest exit is in your house, then your in a lot of trouble.
^^^
People are creatures of habit. In almost every fire evacuation/drill we have about 90% of the employees will walk away from their nearest exit back to the one where they clock in at.
Quote from: Big John on January 09, 2023, 06:13:16 PM
Quote from: triplemultiplex on January 09, 2023, 05:43:40 PM
Extra shout out when people combine two or more scams.
like multi-level marketing for essential oils
or psychics who talk to ancient aliens
My chiropractor recommended non-GMO, free range superfood antioxidants to help with my Havana Syndrome.
Smart water
Herbalife is a lot of scams rolled into one (which my brother is big into).
Quote from: abefroman329 on January 09, 2023, 05:20:16 PM
Quote from: ethanhopkin14 on January 09, 2023, 05:05:58 PMMaybe all of the hundreds of people I have met who smoke the stuff were all naturally dingbats anyway (so smoking it truly had no effect)
everybody has their own unhealthy coping skills. No need to break your arm jacking yourself off just because alcohol and marijuana aren't on your list.
I'm not sure which part of his post prompted you to write this. Ad hominem
and strawman arguments, at the same time? Impressive.
Red Bull is a big scam. You’re paying a lot of money for the same stuff you get in coffee.
Plus you eventually lose the energy you started out with before you consumed it. You gain more energy added to your original energy and later on you loose more energy, plus a few more bucks out of your wallet.
Blame the Yager Bomb for its popularity.
Also spell correct sucks again. Can’t figure common words out to use.
I am not a safety person, but I have read the MSDSes for the motor oils I use. It's one way to find out the API group classifications of the basestocks in a name-brand oil, which is otherwise a proprietary blend.
Quote from: ethanhopkin14 on January 09, 2023, 05:05:58 PMI have never been a user. I don't smoke anything, and I don't drink. Every person I have ever met who habitually smokes marijuana always:
A) Tells me they are not addicted and can quit anytime.
B) Gets mad at me for not trying it (I still don't know why they even care).
C) Goes on and on about how safe it is.
D) Then proceeds to space out constantly, and the ones I worked with, would need to be told several times how to do the most menial tasks.
I have heard people say cannabis aggravates their anxiety and paranoia, so I'm willing to believe there is a spread in response to it, but my own was pretty much like your (D). My secondhand exposure to it was in Amsterdam, which I visited without knowing that cannabis-free lodging has to be searched for specifically, and by the time I left, I was still able to function normally--I got to the airport without incident--but had completely lost my ability to pick up on small deviations from normal procedure.
When I checked in at Schiphol, I put my backpack on the conveyor belt, and the ticket agent had to say about five or six times that he wanted me to put it on a luggage cart behind me. When I finally understood what he was trying to say, he gave me a look like he would lose it if he had to handle yet another pothead.
It also had effects on my mood. Superficially, I think I would have come across as more mellow than usual, but that wasn't what it felt like on the inside. It was more like an amping-up of indifference and dismissiveness. So that's another reason I've decided it is just not for me.
Quote from: kkt on January 09, 2023, 05:57:43 PM
Expiration dates that are set Way Too Soon so that manufacturers hope their goods will just be thrown away and new ones bought.
Laundry care tags that prescribe excessively cautious care of clothing. Preshrunk solid color cotton T-shirts really are okay washed in "warm".
Expiration date is a complex one. On one hand, I don't expect most things, especially food, to last forever. On the other hand, I don't expect a tuna can to be like Cinderella carriage and turn inedible once the clock strikes. Yet something has to be said about expected lifetime, and it better be clear directions. Hence the date...
My rule of thumb is "critical examination between 1 and 3 shelf lives"...
Quote from: roadman65 on January 09, 2023, 06:25:08 PM
Red Bull is a big scam. You're paying a lot of money for the same stuff you get in coffee.
I like Red Bull, I don't like coffee. I do prefer Monster and Rockstar over Red Bull, they also happen to be cheaper. Even still, Red Bull usually is less to buy individually over something like coffee shop coffee.
Quote from: roadman65 on January 09, 2023, 06:25:08 PMBlame the Yager Bomb for its popularity
There's also the lesser-known sake bomb.
And before either one of those, there was vodka and Red Bull.
Quote from: roadman65 on January 09, 2023, 06:25:08 PM
Red Bull is a big scam. You're paying a lot of money for the same stuff you get in coffee.
Plus you eventually lose the energy you started out with before you consumed it. You gain more energy added to your original energy and later on you loose more energy, plus a few more bucks out of your wallet.
Blame the Yager Bomb for its popularity.
Also spell correct sucks again. Can't figure common words out to use.
Store bought food is a big scam. You're paying a lot of money for the same stuff you can pick up in the field.
Plus you eventually lose the energy you started out with before you consumed it. You gain more energy added to your original energy and later on you loose more energy, plus a few more bucks out of your wallet.
Quote from: thspfc on January 09, 2023, 06:23:00 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on January 09, 2023, 05:20:16 PM
Quote from: ethanhopkin14 on January 09, 2023, 05:05:58 PMMaybe all of the hundreds of people I have met who smoke the stuff were all naturally dingbats anyway (so smoking it truly had no effect)
everybody has their own unhealthy coping skills. No need to break your arm jacking yourself off just because alcohol and marijuana aren't on your list.
I'm not sure which part of his post prompted you to write this.
The part I quoted, but really it could have been any of the other parts where he was, you know, about to break his arm jacking himself off because he doesn't drink or smoke pot.
Quote from: Big John on January 09, 2023, 06:13:16 PM
Quote from: triplemultiplex on January 09, 2023, 05:43:40 PM
Extra shout out when people combine two or more scams.
like multi-level marketing for essential oils
or psychics who talk to ancient aliens
My chiropractor recommended non-GMO, free range superfood antioxidants to help with my Havana Syndrome.
Smart water
I bought Smart Water once at an airport and it's the only time I felt thirstier even after consuming it. Probably from whatever added minerals they put in it. Nowadays I just refill a stainless steel bottle, but not every airport has the fountains to fill them.
For that matter, water with pH values above 7.5 can take a hike. Do that many people require their stomachs to produce extra acid to compensate?
Quote from: abefroman329 on January 09, 2023, 06:30:19 PM
Quote from: roadman65 on January 09, 2023, 06:25:08 PMBlame the Yager Bomb for its popularity
There's also the lesser-known sake bomb.
And before either one of those, there was vodka and Red Bull.
Actually before those, there was just Red Bull. Or just vodka, to be more precise. :D
Quote from: abefroman329 on January 09, 2023, 06:32:16 PM
Quote from: thspfc on January 09, 2023, 06:23:00 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on January 09, 2023, 05:20:16 PM
Quote from: ethanhopkin14 on January 09, 2023, 05:05:58 PMMaybe all of the hundreds of people I have met who smoke the stuff were all naturally dingbats anyway (so smoking it truly had no effect)
everybody has their own unhealthy coping skills. No need to break your arm jacking yourself off just because alcohol and marijuana aren't on your list.
I'm not sure which part of his post prompted you to write this.
The part I quoted, but really it could have been any of the other parts where he was, you know, about to break his arm jacking himself off because he doesn't drink or smoke pot.
What other kind of jacking would apply here? Foot jacking?
What gets me is that the expiration date on dairy products is supposed to be the last day sold, not last day consumed. Yet I find the milk to be sour on midnight at the end of the stamped day many times.
When I was a kid my milk was good days after the expiration date, so people are changing and lowering standards these days.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on January 09, 2023, 06:33:37 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on January 09, 2023, 06:32:16 PM
Quote from: thspfc on January 09, 2023, 06:23:00 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on January 09, 2023, 05:20:16 PM
Quote from: ethanhopkin14 on January 09, 2023, 05:05:58 PMMaybe all of the hundreds of people I have met who smoke the stuff were all naturally dingbats anyway (so smoking it truly had no effect)
everybody has their own unhealthy coping skills. No need to break your arm jacking yourself off just because alcohol and marijuana aren't on your list.
I'm not sure which part of his post prompted you to write this.
The part I quoted, but really it could have been any of the other parts where he was, you know, about to break his arm jacking himself off because he doesn't drink or smoke pot.
What other kind of jacking would apply here? Foot jacking?
I dunno man, I heard that line on Rick and Morty and I like it better than "try not to break your arm patting yourself on the back."
Quote from: roadman65 on January 09, 2023, 06:34:42 PM
What gets me is that the expiration date on dairy products is supposed to be the last day sold, not last day consumed. Yet I find the milk to be sour on midnight at the end of the stamped day many times.
When I was a kid my milk was good days after the expiration date, so people are changing and lowering standards these days.
One aspect in milk shelf life is antibiotics residue. Its recognized that preventive antibiotic treatment got out of hand in agriculture at some point. It is scaled back, though, but there is a huge price yet to be paid..
Milk going sour (in an open container, right?) is a tiny part of the situation.
Quote from: jeffandnicole on January 09, 2023, 06:02:21 PM
There's no sprinkler system or Exit signage in my house.
uh
(https://i.imgur.com/GiIjfXm.jpg)
Quote from: Scott5114 on January 09, 2023, 06:53:28 PM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on January 09, 2023, 06:02:21 PM
There's no sprinkler system or Exit signage in my house.
uh
(https://i.imgur.com/GiIjfXm.jpg)
Both arrows are uncovered. A good OSHA inspector would write you up immediately...
Quote from: ethanhopkin14 on January 09, 2023, 05:05:58 PM
A) Tells me they are not addicted and can quit anytime. [...] I have experienced enough potheads to see that it can be addictive [...]
They're probably telling the truth. I have a cannabis vape on my desk and I probably only use it once or twice a week or so. Sometimes I feel like doing it. Sometimes I don't. Honestly I have more of a problem telling myself not to eat fried foods and drink soda than I do cannabis.
You can get addicted to anything that gives you a dopamine hit. I've seen people addicted to gambling. Some people are addicted to sports. Or posting to a Web forum. The underlying mechanism of addiction is a lack of dopamine, which is why people with shit lives tend to get addicted to things easier. Some people have brains that are more structured to develop addictions than others. So yes, some people can get addicted to cannabis, but those people are just as likely to get addicted to alcohol or working out or buying Blu-Rays of
Live with Regis and Kathie Lee.
Quote from: kalvado on January 09, 2023, 06:59:59 PM
Both arrows are uncovered. A good OSHA inspector would write you up immediately...
That's always bothered me, but both of the chevrons (not arrows! the City of Norman's building code inspectors argue with each other over this) were popped out when I got the sign, and I haven't bothered to correct it, since I just put it up when we moved in as a goof.
Quote from: Scott5114 on January 09, 2023, 06:53:28 PM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on January 09, 2023, 06:02:21 PM
There's no sprinkler system or Exit signage in my house.
uh
(https://i.imgur.com/GiIjfXm.jpg)
How did you get a picture of jeffandnicole's house?
Quote from: kalvado on January 09, 2023, 06:59:59 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on January 09, 2023, 06:53:28 PM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on January 09, 2023, 06:02:21 PM
There's no sprinkler system or Exit signage in my house.
uh
(https://i.imgur.com/GiIjfXm.jpg)
Both arrows are uncovered. A good OSHA inspector would write you up immediately...
No illuminated backlight?
Quote from: abefroman329 on January 09, 2023, 06:32:16 PM
Quote from: thspfc on January 09, 2023, 06:23:00 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on January 09, 2023, 05:20:16 PM
Quote from: ethanhopkin14 on January 09, 2023, 05:05:58 PMMaybe all of the hundreds of people I have met who smoke the stuff were all naturally dingbats anyway (so smoking it truly had no effect)
everybody has their own unhealthy coping skills. No need to break your arm jacking yourself off just because alcohol and marijuana aren't on your list.
I'm not sure which part of his post prompted you to write this.
The part I quoted, but really it could have been any of the other parts where he was, you know, about to break his arm jacking himself off because he doesn't drink or smoke pot.
How did that make you think he's "about to break his arm jacking himself off because he doesn't drink or smoke pot" ?
Or are you just not interested in making a legitimate argument?
Quote from: Scott5114 on January 09, 2023, 07:06:03 PM
So yes, some people can get addicted to cannabis, but those people are just as likely to get addicted to alcohol or working out or buying Blu-Rays of Live with Regis and Kathie Lee.
This is like saying "there's a 50/50 chance you win the lottery, because you either do or you don't." Some things are way more addictive than others. (I'm not saying that cannabis is the most addictive or dangerously addictive.)
Quote from: thspfc on January 09, 2023, 07:26:14 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on January 09, 2023, 07:06:03 PM
So yes, some people can get addicted to cannabis, but those people are just as likely to get addicted to alcohol or working out or buying Blu-Rays of Live with Regis and Kathie Lee.
This is like saying "there's a 50/50 chance you win the lottery, because you either do or you don't." Some things are way more addictive than others. (I'm not saying that cannabis is the most addictive or dangerously addictive.)
I'm saying that's not a function of the cannabis, I'm saying it's a function of the person using it. When it does occur, it's not a chemical dependence (i.e. there are no "withdrawals"), it's a behavioral addiction, which has different root causes.
Quote from: Scott5114 on January 09, 2023, 07:37:57 PM
Quote from: thspfc on January 09, 2023, 07:26:14 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on January 09, 2023, 07:06:03 PM
So yes, some people can get addicted to cannabis, but those people are just as likely to get addicted to alcohol or working out or buying Blu-Rays of Live with Regis and Kathie Lee.
This is like saying "there's a 50/50 chance you win the lottery, because you either do or you don't." Some things are way more addictive than others. (I'm not saying that cannabis is the most addictive or dangerously addictive.)
I'm saying that's not a function of the cannabis, I'm saying it's a function of the person using it. When it does occur, it's not a chemical dependence (i.e. there are no "withdrawals"), it's a behavioral addiction, which has different root causes.
The use of "more likely" doesn't fit with this. You're trying to turn quantitative into qualitative.
Quote from: thspfc on January 09, 2023, 09:51:38 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on January 09, 2023, 07:37:57 PM
Quote from: thspfc on January 09, 2023, 07:26:14 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on January 09, 2023, 07:06:03 PM
So yes, some people can get addicted to cannabis, but those people are just as likely to get addicted to alcohol or working out or buying Blu-Rays of Live with Regis and Kathie Lee.
This is like saying "there's a 50/50 chance you win the lottery, because you either do or you don't." Some things are way more addictive than others. (I'm not saying that cannabis is the most addictive or dangerously addictive.)
I'm saying that's not a function of the cannabis, I'm saying it's a function of the person using it. When it does occur, it's not a chemical dependence (i.e. there are no "withdrawals"), it's a behavioral addiction, which has different root causes.
The use of "more likely" doesn't fit with this. You're trying to turn quantitative into qualitative.
something something quantity 420 something something quality time
Quote from: roadman65 on January 09, 2023, 06:19:35 PM
If you don't know where the nearest exit is in your house, then your in a lot of trouble.
I've read stories about when fire alarms go off in stores, people say they aren't told what to do. Since kindergarten, they've been told when an alarm goes off, go to the nearest exit. Or, hey, go to AN exit. Why do grown-ass adults need a 17 year old store employee to tell them to evacuate the store?
Quote from: Scott5114 on January 09, 2023, 06:53:28 PM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on January 09, 2023, 06:02:21 PM
There's no sprinkler system or Exit signage in my house.
uh
(https://i.imgur.com/GiIjfXm.jpg)
Where's the emergency lighting?
Quote from: jeffandnicole on January 09, 2023, 10:36:31 PM
Quote from: roadman65 on January 09, 2023, 06:19:35 PM
If you don't know where the nearest exit is in your house, then your in a lot of trouble.
I've read stories about when fire alarms go off in stores, people say they aren't told what to do. Since kindergarten, they've been told when an alarm goes off, go to the nearest exit. Or, hey, go to AN exit. Why do grown-ass adults need a 17 year old store employee to tell them to evacuate the store?
One time I was at work and the fire alarm went off. I immediately tossed the Window Closed sign up and started locking up the drawer. My supervisor asked me what I was doing. I said the fire alarm is going off so I'm evacuating. She said maybe we should wait until it's confirmed that it's not a false alarm. I said I'm not going to wait until it's too late to evacuate only to find out it's
not a false alarm, and came out from behind the counter. As I was leaving, she was putting her sign up too and followed me out to the parking lot.
(Yeah, it was a false alarm. But if it hadn't been, it wouldn't have been the first casino I worked at that caught fire, so I wasn't going to take any chances.)
Quote from: abefroman329 on January 09, 2023, 03:11:02 PM
Quote from: mgk920 on January 09, 2023, 01:52:11 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on January 09, 2023, 01:41:01 PM
Quote from: kalvado on January 09, 2023, 01:36:51 PM
Quote from: MultiMillionMiler on January 09, 2023, 01:25:46 PM
Not to get into it and either, but it's paranoia. No amount of voting "anomalies" could offset an 8,000,000 or 11,000,000 majority for example. That's all I'm gonna say about that.
Correct me if I am wrong, but Bush II vs Al Gore boiled down to a much smaller number of ballots. Presidential elections are decided in swing states, representative majorities on different levels are decided in swing districts....
I agree, the Electoral College is a scam. Get rid of that and there won't be any elections decided by swing states/districts, or by small margins (Gore won the national popular vote by about one million votes, as I recall).
The biggest problem with that it one word - 'recount'. Also, the USA's midsection (aka 'flyover country') world really become FLYOVER COUNTRY - only the interests of the biggest urban markets would ever get any attention from the media and the people in charge (those founding fathers™ were really smart people!).
Mike
So everyone's vote would count equally? How awful
"A 'democracy' is two wolves and a sheep deciding on what to have for lunch. 'Liberty' is a well-armed sheep contesting the outcome."
Mike
Quote from: Scott5114 on January 09, 2023, 10:45:22 PM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on January 09, 2023, 10:36:31 PM
Quote from: roadman65 on January 09, 2023, 06:19:35 PM
If you don't know where the nearest exit is in your house, then your in a lot of trouble.
I've read stories about when fire alarms go off in stores, people say they aren't told what to do. Since kindergarten, they've been told when an alarm goes off, go to the nearest exit. Or, hey, go to AN exit. Why do grown-ass adults need a 17 year old store employee to tell them to evacuate the store?
One time I was at work and the fire alarm went off. I immediately tossed the Window Closed sign up and started locking up the drawer. My supervisor asked me what I was doing. I said the fire alarm is going off so I'm evacuating. She said maybe we should wait until it's confirmed that it's not a false alarm. I said I'm not going to wait until it's too late to evacuate only to find out it's not a false alarm, and came out from behind the counter. As I was leaving, she was putting her sign up too and followed me out to the parking lot.
(Yeah, it was a false alarm. But if it hadn't been, it wouldn't have been the first casino I worked at that caught fire, so I wasn't going to take any chances.)
I'm one of our floor's fire captains, where we are supposed to do a walk around and make sure everyone gets out. When the alarm goes off, I'll wait a momemt. They tell us to tell everyone to leave. I'm not doing that. Again, they're grown ass adults. They know what to do. Only during my walk around will I say you gotta go if they're insistent on not leaving. If they don't, then I'll still leave and they'll get reported. I did my job.
During an earthquake a number of years ago, the alarm didn't go off, but someone said they're leaving and mentioned taking the elevator. I tried telling then that's the worse thing to do. She said she doesn't care, she's not walking down the steps. She, overall, was not one of our brightest employees to begin with.
Quote from: jeffandnicole on January 09, 2023, 10:59:44 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on January 09, 2023, 10:45:22 PM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on January 09, 2023, 10:36:31 PM
Quote from: roadman65 on January 09, 2023, 06:19:35 PM
If you don't know where the nearest exit is in your house, then your in a lot of trouble.
I've read stories about when fire alarms go off in stores, people say they aren't told what to do. Since kindergarten, they've been told when an alarm goes off, go to the nearest exit. Or, hey, go to AN exit. Why do grown-ass adults need a 17 year old store employee to tell them to evacuate the store?
One time I was at work and the fire alarm went off. I immediately tossed the Window Closed sign up and started locking up the drawer. My supervisor asked me what I was doing. I said the fire alarm is going off so I'm evacuating. She said maybe we should wait until it's confirmed that it's not a false alarm. I said I'm not going to wait until it's too late to evacuate only to find out it's not a false alarm, and came out from behind the counter. As I was leaving, she was putting her sign up too and followed me out to the parking lot.
(Yeah, it was a false alarm. But if it hadn't been, it wouldn't have been the first casino I worked at that caught fire, so I wasn't going to take any chances.)
I'm one of our floor's fire captains, where we are supposed to do a walk around and make sure everyone gets out. When the alarm goes off, I'll wait a momemt. They tell us to tell everyone to leave. I'm not doing that. Again, they're grown ass adults. They know what to do. Only during my walk around will I say you gotta go if they're insistent on not leaving. If they don't, then I'll still leave and they'll get reported. I did my job.
During an earthquake a number of years ago, the alarm didn't go off, but someone said they're leaving and mentioned taking the elevator. I tried telling then that's the worse thing to do. She said she doesn't care, she's not walking down the steps. She, overall, was not one of our brightest employees to begin with.
"A boy who cried wolf" is part of it.
I went through many annual evacuation drills. In a bad year, it was 3 in a single week as we have a big complex with evacuation drills done by the zone. Few low threat alarms from someone pulling the box accidentally to pizza slice in microwave set to 15 min instead of 15 seconds. Numerous chemical alarms about minor things.
The only time threat level was noticable (car on fire 3' from the building), it ended up with voice over PA orders, not building alarm.
How seriously do I take those alarms?....
Fun fact : during POTUS visit on site most alarms were disarmed....
Quote from: kalvado on January 10, 2023, 07:32:38 AM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on January 09, 2023, 10:59:44 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on January 09, 2023, 10:45:22 PM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on January 09, 2023, 10:36:31 PM
Quote from: roadman65 on January 09, 2023, 06:19:35 PM
If you don't know where the nearest exit is in your house, then your in a lot of trouble.
I've read stories about when fire alarms go off in stores, people say they aren't told what to do. Since kindergarten, they've been told when an alarm goes off, go to the nearest exit. Or, hey, go to AN exit. Why do grown-ass adults need a 17 year old store employee to tell them to evacuate the store?
One time I was at work and the fire alarm went off. I immediately tossed the Window Closed sign up and started locking up the drawer. My supervisor asked me what I was doing. I said the fire alarm is going off so I'm evacuating. She said maybe we should wait until it's confirmed that it's not a false alarm. I said I'm not going to wait until it's too late to evacuate only to find out it's not a false alarm, and came out from behind the counter. As I was leaving, she was putting her sign up too and followed me out to the parking lot.
(Yeah, it was a false alarm. But if it hadn't been, it wouldn't have been the first casino I worked at that caught fire, so I wasn't going to take any chances.)
I'm one of our floor's fire captains, where we are supposed to do a walk around and make sure everyone gets out. When the alarm goes off, I'll wait a momemt. They tell us to tell everyone to leave. I'm not doing that. Again, they're grown ass adults. They know what to do. Only during my walk around will I say you gotta go if they're insistent on not leaving. If they don't, then I'll still leave and they'll get reported. I did my job.
During an earthquake a number of years ago, the alarm didn't go off, but someone said they're leaving and mentioned taking the elevator. I tried telling then that's the worse thing to do. She said she doesn't care, she's not walking down the steps. She, overall, was not one of our brightest employees to begin with.
"A boy who cried wolf" is part of it.
I went through many annual evacuation drills. In a bad year, it was 3 in a single week as we have a big complex with evacuation drills done by the zone. Few low threat alarms from someone pulling the box accidentally to pizza slice in microwave set to 15 min instead of 15 seconds. Numerous chemical alarms about minor things.
The only time threat level was noticable (car on fire 3' from the building), it ended up with voice over PA orders, not building alarm.
How seriously do I take those alarms?....
Fun fact : during POTUS visit on site most alarms were disarmed....
The nice thing for me being the safety manager is that I'm also usually the person on site with the most seniority. Having the authority to tell people they don't have a choice in leaving is a huge help in evacuations. During last week a kid pulled an alarm station at Starbucks which necessitated a building evacuation. The Baja Fresh manager was giving two location supervisors trouble about evacuating until I got on the radio and told her to leave immediately.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on January 10, 2023, 08:18:37 AM
Quote from: kalvado on January 10, 2023, 07:32:38 AM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on January 09, 2023, 10:59:44 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on January 09, 2023, 10:45:22 PM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on January 09, 2023, 10:36:31 PM
Quote from: roadman65 on January 09, 2023, 06:19:35 PM
If you don't know where the nearest exit is in your house, then your in a lot of trouble.
I've read stories about when fire alarms go off in stores, people say they aren't told what to do. Since kindergarten, they've been told when an alarm goes off, go to the nearest exit. Or, hey, go to AN exit. Why do grown-ass adults need a 17 year old store employee to tell them to evacuate the store?
One time I was at work and the fire alarm went off. I immediately tossed the Window Closed sign up and started locking up the drawer. My supervisor asked me what I was doing. I said the fire alarm is going off so I'm evacuating. She said maybe we should wait until it's confirmed that it's not a false alarm. I said I'm not going to wait until it's too late to evacuate only to find out it's not a false alarm, and came out from behind the counter. As I was leaving, she was putting her sign up too and followed me out to the parking lot.
(Yeah, it was a false alarm. But if it hadn't been, it wouldn't have been the first casino I worked at that caught fire, so I wasn't going to take any chances.)
I'm one of our floor's fire captains, where we are supposed to do a walk around and make sure everyone gets out. When the alarm goes off, I'll wait a momemt. They tell us to tell everyone to leave. I'm not doing that. Again, they're grown ass adults. They know what to do. Only during my walk around will I say you gotta go if they're insistent on not leaving. If they don't, then I'll still leave and they'll get reported. I did my job.
During an earthquake a number of years ago, the alarm didn't go off, but someone said they're leaving and mentioned taking the elevator. I tried telling then that's the worse thing to do. She said she doesn't care, she's not walking down the steps. She, overall, was not one of our brightest employees to begin with.
"A boy who cried wolf" is part of it.
I went through many annual evacuation drills. In a bad year, it was 3 in a single week as we have a big complex with evacuation drills done by the zone. Few low threat alarms from someone pulling the box accidentally to pizza slice in microwave set to 15 min instead of 15 seconds. Numerous chemical alarms about minor things.
The only time threat level was noticable (car on fire 3' from the building), it ended up with voice over PA orders, not building alarm.
How seriously do I take those alarms?....
Fun fact : during POTUS visit on site most alarms were disarmed....
The nice thing for me being the safety manager is that I'm also usually the person on site with the most seniority. Having the authority to tell people they don't have a choice in leaving is a huge help in evacuations. During last week a kid pulled an alarm station at Starbucks which necessitated a building evacuation. The Baja Fresh manager was giving two location supervisors trouble about evacuating until I got on the radio and told her to leave immediately.
And the outcome is - according to the Murphy's law of unintended consequences- is that safety perceived not as a helping hand, but as that guy doing that dumb thing again. At some point it had become a net negative...
Anything that asks you to wire money to a Nigerian prince.
Quote from: kirbykart on January 10, 2023, 10:32:57 AM
Anything that asks you to wire money to a Nigerian prince.
That's not a scam, that is Darwin natural selection process at work.
Quote from: kalvado on January 10, 2023, 09:01:35 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on January 10, 2023, 08:18:37 AM
Quote from: kalvado on January 10, 2023, 07:32:38 AM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on January 09, 2023, 10:59:44 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on January 09, 2023, 10:45:22 PM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on January 09, 2023, 10:36:31 PM
Quote from: roadman65 on January 09, 2023, 06:19:35 PM
If you don't know where the nearest exit is in your house, then your in a lot of trouble.
I've read stories about when fire alarms go off in stores, people say they aren't told what to do. Since kindergarten, they've been told when an alarm goes off, go to the nearest exit. Or, hey, go to AN exit. Why do grown-ass adults need a 17 year old store employee to tell them to evacuate the store?
One time I was at work and the fire alarm went off. I immediately tossed the Window Closed sign up and started locking up the drawer. My supervisor asked me what I was doing. I said the fire alarm is going off so I'm evacuating. She said maybe we should wait until it's confirmed that it's not a false alarm. I said I'm not going to wait until it's too late to evacuate only to find out it's not a false alarm, and came out from behind the counter. As I was leaving, she was putting her sign up too and followed me out to the parking lot.
(Yeah, it was a false alarm. But if it hadn't been, it wouldn't have been the first casino I worked at that caught fire, so I wasn't going to take any chances.)
I'm one of our floor's fire captains, where we are supposed to do a walk around and make sure everyone gets out. When the alarm goes off, I'll wait a momemt. They tell us to tell everyone to leave. I'm not doing that. Again, they're grown ass adults. They know what to do. Only during my walk around will I say you gotta go if they're insistent on not leaving. If they don't, then I'll still leave and they'll get reported. I did my job.
During an earthquake a number of years ago, the alarm didn't go off, but someone said they're leaving and mentioned taking the elevator. I tried telling then that's the worse thing to do. She said she doesn't care, she's not walking down the steps. She, overall, was not one of our brightest employees to begin with.
"A boy who cried wolf" is part of it.
I went through many annual evacuation drills. In a bad year, it was 3 in a single week as we have a big complex with evacuation drills done by the zone. Few low threat alarms from someone pulling the box accidentally to pizza slice in microwave set to 15 min instead of 15 seconds. Numerous chemical alarms about minor things.
The only time threat level was noticable (car on fire 3' from the building), it ended up with voice over PA orders, not building alarm.
How seriously do I take those alarms?....
Fun fact : during POTUS visit on site most alarms were disarmed....
The nice thing for me being the safety manager is that I'm also usually the person on site with the most seniority. Having the authority to tell people they don't have a choice in leaving is a huge help in evacuations. During last week a kid pulled an alarm station at Starbucks which necessitated a building evacuation. The Baja Fresh manager was giving two location supervisors trouble about evacuating until I got on the radio and told her to leave immediately.
And the outcome is - according to the Murphy's law of unintended consequences- is that safety perceived not as a helping hand, but as that guy doing that dumb thing again. At some point it had become a net negative...
The problem with our own company safety program is that the people directing had a "more is better" approach for a long time. If you over saturate safety two things tend to happen I've found:
- Some people become dismissive of actual critical safety training because it is lumped in with a quagmire of fluff.
- Some people start reporting accidents they normally wouldn't have (or shouldn't have) which eventually leads to more medical claims.
I tend to prefer simplicity and keeping things like safety training to a minimum. The reason our claims have gone down the last five years is something I would attribute more to not treating employees like babies more than anything else.
Quote from: abefroman329 on January 09, 2023, 06:32:16 PM
Quote from: thspfc on January 09, 2023, 06:23:00 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on January 09, 2023, 05:20:16 PM
Quote from: ethanhopkin14 on January 09, 2023, 05:05:58 PMMaybe all of the hundreds of people I have met who smoke the stuff were all naturally dingbats anyway (so smoking it truly had no effect)
everybody has their own unhealthy coping skills. No need to break your arm jacking yourself off just because alcohol and marijuana aren't on your list.
I'm not sure which part of his post prompted you to write this.
The part I quoted, but really it could have been any of the other parts where he was, you know, about to break his arm jacking himself off because he doesn't drink or smoke pot.
Thank you for assuming I am deviantly pleasuring myself over this. The contrary. I don't think I even once talked about how awesome my life is because I don't partake in alcohol or marijuana. I was mainly pointing out how I always get the "pot is organic so it's not bad for you" of the "it's healthier for you than alcohol so why is it illegal" routines from everyone I have ever met who does it and then I observe the way they act and I think to myself, the way you just spaced out on me has a lot to do why it's a controlled substance. Never did I once say I am good, and you all are heathens for doing it. I even said specifically that I don't care if anyone does it. I personally would like it very much if everyone could not do any type of mind-altering drugs then drive, may it be marijuana, alcohol or meth. I have seen what any of those things do to a person on them without driving, and it's not good. I also know how awful some people drive stone cold sober. I seem to hear a lot how it's perfectly fine for a person to smoke marijuana and drive from someone who does it, while I observe them space off and forget why they were standing there.
I also don't care if anyone does it all they want, but if they work for me, as some do, don't so it at work and I would prefer you not do it before work, even though I have no control over what they do with their personal time. As a manager, I get tired of giving the same direction over and over again, and in some cases for years.
I have family members who have had addiction problems, so I have never had a holier than thou attitude toward people who use vs myself but thank you for assuming I do.
My only points were I don't think it's as safe and harmless as users say it is, considering the people I have associated that do it. I think, like a lot of things, a lot of mis-information gets propagated a lot along the way that mainly started as a way for users to justify what they do, not because any of it was hard facts. There may be some facts to it, and a lot of it makes sense. Smoking marijuana is probably way safer for you than drinking alcohol, I just think it's like saying drinking paint is better for you than drinking turpentine. They are both not good for you, but one is better, I guess.
Again, I say that not because I am a better person for not, but I just want to please put a stop to the "marijuana is perfectly fine for you" campaign I hear. It's not. It alters your mind and it's permanent (not saying you trip forever, just that if you use something that alters your mind, you better believe it has some kind of lasting effect).
Quote from: 1 on January 09, 2023, 05:14:29 PM
Quote from: ethanhopkin14 on January 09, 2023, 05:05:58 PM
Also any rewards program from a retailer is a scam.
Absolutely not. For IHOP in particular, I think they're actually losing money on me. Other restaurants, like UNO, Outback, and Friendly's, are 1 in 16, 1 in 14, and 1 in 15 back, respectively.
I think like you do too, especially Kohl's cash. Then I sit and think, this is a corporation, and they don't like losing money so there has to be a scam there. It may be them throwing you a bone here and there and you make it up somewhere eles, but what they really want is to harvest your information.
Quote from: 1 on January 09, 2023, 05:14:29 PM
Quote from: ethanhopkin14 on January 09, 2023, 05:05:58 PM
Also any rewards program from a retailer is a scam.
Absolutely not. For IHOP in particular, I think they're actually losing money on me. Other restaurants, like UNO, Outback, and Friendly's, are 1 in 16, 1 in 14, and 1 in 15 back, respectively.
I assure you that giving back 5% to IHOP does not make them lose money when they charge $10 for pancakes that cost about $0.60 to make. (Coming from a former restaurant GM that had a muuuuch higher food cost than something like IHOP.)
Quote from: ethanhopkin14 on January 10, 2023, 11:14:52 AM
Quote from: abefroman329 on January 09, 2023, 06:32:16 PM
Quote from: thspfc on January 09, 2023, 06:23:00 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on January 09, 2023, 05:20:16 PM
Quote from: ethanhopkin14 on January 09, 2023, 05:05:58 PMMaybe all of the hundreds of people I have met who smoke the stuff were all naturally dingbats anyway (so smoking it truly had no effect)
everybody has their own unhealthy coping skills. No need to break your arm jacking yourself off just because alcohol and marijuana aren't on your list.
I'm not sure which part of his post prompted you to write this.
The part I quoted, but really it could have been any of the other parts where he was, you know, about to break his arm jacking himself off because he doesn't drink or smoke pot.
Thank you for assuming I am deviantly pleasuring myself over this. The contrary. I don't think I even once talked about how awesome my life is because I don't partake in alcohol or marijuana. I was mainly pointing out how I always get the "pot is organic so it's not bad for you" of the "it's healthier for you than alcohol so why is it illegal" routines from everyone I have ever met who does it and then I observe the way they act and I think to myself, the way you just spaced out on me has a lot to do why it's a controlled substance. Never did I once say I am good, and you all are heathens for doing it. I even said specifically that I don't care if anyone does it. I personally would like it very much if everyone could not do any type of mind-altering drugs then drive, may it be marijuana, alcohol or meth. I have seen what any of those things do to a person on them without driving, and it's not good. I also know how awful some people drive stone cold sober. I seem to hear a lot how it's perfectly fine for a person to smoke marijuana and drive from someone who does it, while I observe them space off and forget why they were standing there.
I also don't care if anyone does it all they want, but if they work for me, as some do, don't so it at work and I would prefer you not do it before work, even though I have no control over what they do with their personal time. As a manager, I get tired of giving the same direction over and over again, and in some cases for years.
I have family members who have had addiction problems, so I have never had a holier than thou attitude toward people who use vs myself but thank you for assuming I do.
My only points were I don't think it's as safe and harmless as users say it is, considering the people I have associated that do it. I think, like a lot of things, a lot of mis-information gets propagated a lot along the way that mainly started as a way for users to justify what they do, not because any of it was hard facts. There may be some facts to it, and a lot of it makes sense. Smoking marijuana is probably way safer for you than drinking alcohol, I just think it's like saying drinking paint is better for you than drinking turpentine. They are both not good for you, but one is better, I guess.
Again, I say that not because I am a better person for not, but I just want to please put a stop to the "marijuana is perfectly fine for you" campaign I hear. It's not. It alters your mind and it's permanent (not saying you trip forever, just that if you use something that alters your mind, you better believe it has some kind of lasting effect).
Fair enough, although your original post certainly seemed to involve sneering at those who use.
The truth, of course, is somewhere between "marijuana is harmless" and "marijuana is 100 times as dangerous as whizzing on an electric fence." I've personally never argued that it's harmless, but I do believe it's less harmful than alcohol, and I also have a problem with the way the consumption of alcohol is glamorized almost everywhere you look, whereas with marijuana, we get dumbshit ONDCP ads with messages such as "don't get high more than three times, or someone will try to sexually assault you" (because that never happens when you get blackout drunk?)
As for driving while high, I'll admit I thought it was fine for a while, but then, one weekend, I went to see some friends' band play a show in Woodbridge, VA. I got high with them, and I remember getting in my car, getting on I-95 to drive back to DC, and then nothing between that and waking up in my own bed at my apartment. None of that was fine.
That's not how the rewards system at IHOP works. I usually eat from the $8 meals after 3 PM if I'm not using rewards. Typically, it's $5 spent to receive 1 PanCoin. However, they have had two promotions that allow me to get a whole bunch of PanCoins. In July 2022, an additional 10 each for your first four visits (I did 3). From December 15 or so to December 30, 20 if you go twice.
Rewards:
3 – 3 pancakes
12 – A burger or sandwich
The others are less efficient, except for 5 for 5 pancakes, which is too much food and too little variety for me.
This means that my 50 free PanCoins could get me 50 pancakes, or 48 if I solely go by threes. (I did use some for burgers.) Lots of free meals for lunch, while for dinner, I get the $8 omelette + 3 pancakes meal.
In addition, there have been a few times that I activated the reward and it didn't get deleted from my account, allowing me to use it a second time.
It helps that I'm typically by myself.
Also any rewards program from a retailer is a scam.
[/quote]^^^^
Except if you are a frequent flyer than the mileage points do save you on airfare over time.
The only restaurant rewards program I bother participating in is the one offered by Lettuce Entertain You.
Quote from: 1 on January 10, 2023, 11:51:49 AM
That's not how the rewards system at IHOP works. I usually eat from the $8 meals after 3 PM if I'm not using rewards. Typically, it's $5 spent to receive 1 PanCoin. However, they have had two promotions that allow me to get a whole bunch of PanCoins. In July 2022, an additional 10 for your first four visits (I did 3). From December 15 or so to December 30, 20 if you go twice.
Rewards:
3 – 3 pancakes
12 – A burger or sandwich
The others are less efficient, except for 5 for 5 pancakes, which is too much food and too little variety for me.
This means that my 50 free PanCoins could get me 50 pancakes, or 48 if I solely go by threes. (I did use some for burgers.) Lots of free meals for lunch, while for dinner, I get the $8 omelette + 3 pancakes meal.
It helps that I'm typically by myself.
But therein lies the great "mirage" of these things. A redemption of 50 PanCoins costs the company about $10 (assuming 3 pancakes cost $0.60 to make). If you spent more than $20 or so to earn those, they're still in the black. It's why when I was training young managers how to deal with guest complaints, I always told them that we should take a discount off their current meal as a last resort. The better option was to offer them a very generous gift card to return. If I take $50 off of their current meal, the restaurant lost $50. But if I gave them $100 to return another time, a) it gave us a chance to prove that their last bad experience was an outlier, b) they might never use it which means it didn't cost us anything, or c) they do use it and the $100 of revenue lost by using the gift card is really only $25 worth of food/drink (given our food and LBW cost).
Quote from: JayhawkCO on January 10, 2023, 11:59:31 AM
If you spent more than $20 or so to earn those, they're still in the black.
I'm not entirely sure. I spent $34 (they were $6 before they were $8) to receive 55 PanCoins (1 per purchase + 50 bonus), five three-egg omelettes with ham and cheese, and 15 pancakes (three per meal).
Oh one time I was a server. The manager comped a $50 meal due to an arrogant customer. I was his server, and I was super busy. He was impatient and saw he was not the only customer I had.
Of course my boss cared more about reputation than whether the man deserved it or not. However he didn't see when I was dealing with him. Well kinda. He asked for heated syrup, which I was going to gladly take care of for him. However other customers had request too, so I took care of my others first and when I finally walked passed his table he had his heated syrup. I then assumed one of my coworkers helped me out so I expressed how glad I was he got his syrup in a timely matter. His reaction was, " I got it myself" in a snarky tone like he was accusing me of forgetting him. Paid no attention to my concern which insulted me more than a lack of tip from him.
Quote from: 1 on January 10, 2023, 12:06:33 PM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on January 10, 2023, 11:59:31 AM
If you spent more than $20 or so to earn those, they're still in the black.
I'm not entirely sure. I spent $34 (they were $6 before they were $8) to receive 55 PanCoins (1 per purchase + 50 bonus), five three-egg omelettes with ham and cheese, and 15 pancakes (three per meal).
If I'm reading you correctly that the omelets and pancakes were your free redemptions, then I'd guess that:
3 Egg Omelet: $1.30 x 5 = $6.50
Pancake: $0.20 x 15 = $3.00
$9.50 in food cost. IHOP probably averages about 20-25% profit if they're well run, so you, maximizing their plan, made it about a break-even proposition for them to offer it. Most people wouldn't go to the lengths to maximize the rewards, so if they get any incremental loyalty from someone coming back that wouldn't have otherwise, it makes business sense for IHOP.
Quote from: JayhawkCO on January 10, 2023, 12:14:04 PM
Quote from: 1 on January 10, 2023, 12:06:33 PM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on January 10, 2023, 11:59:31 AM
If you spent more than $20 or so to earn those, they're still in the black.
I'm not entirely sure. I spent $34 (they were $6 before they were $8) to receive 55 PanCoins (1 per purchase + 50 bonus), five three-egg omelettes with ham and cheese, and 15 pancakes (three per meal).
If I'm reading you correctly that the omelets and pancakes were your free redemptions, then I'd guess that:
3 Egg Omelet: $1.30 x 5 = $6.50
Pancake: $0.20 x 15 = $3.00
$9.50 in food cost. IHOP probably averages about 20-25% profit if they're well run, so you, maximizing their plan, made it about a break-even proposition for them to offer it. Most people wouldn't go to the lengths to maximize the rewards, so if they get any incremental loyalty from someone coming back that wouldn't have otherwise, it makes business sense for IHOP.
The omelettes and pancakes were what I paid for to receive the qualifying visits. This doesn't include the free food from the 50 PanCoins, which I think I got two burgers from and used the rest for pancakes for lunch (or still have the PanCoins in my account).
I also want to point out that one visit, they gave me the wrong table's code to scan, and I received 19 PanCoins instead of 1.
Quote from: roadman65 on January 10, 2023, 12:10:20 PM
Oh one time I was a server. The manager comped a $50 meal due to an arrogant customer. I was his server, and I was super busy. He was impatient and saw he was not the only customer I had.
Of course my boss cared more about reputation than whether the man deserved it or not. However he didn't see when I was dealing with him. Well kinda. He asked for heated syrup, which I was going to gladly take care of for him. However other customers had request too, so I took care of my others first and when I finally walked passed his table he had his heated syrup. I then assumed one of my coworkers helped me out so I expressed how glad I was he got his syrup in a timely matter. His reaction was, " I got it myself" in a snarky tone like he was accusing me of forgetting him. Paid no attention to my concern which insulted me more than a lack of tip from him.
Welcome to the restaurant biz - the only industry where customers assume they more know about the business than those who work in it.
Quote from: 1 on January 10, 2023, 12:15:06 PM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on January 10, 2023, 12:14:04 PM
Quote from: 1 on January 10, 2023, 12:06:33 PM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on January 10, 2023, 11:59:31 AM
If you spent more than $20 or so to earn those, they're still in the black.
I'm not entirely sure. I spent $34 (they were $6 before they were $8) to receive 55 PanCoins (1 per purchase + 50 bonus), five three-egg omelettes with ham and cheese, and 15 pancakes (three per meal).
If I'm reading you correctly that the omelets and pancakes were your free redemptions, then I'd guess that:
3 Egg Omelet: $1.30 x 5 = $6.50
Pancake: $0.20 x 15 = $3.00
$9.50 in food cost. IHOP probably averages about 20-25% profit if they're well run, so you, maximizing their plan, made it about a break-even proposition for them to offer it. Most people wouldn't go to the lengths to maximize the rewards, so if they get any incremental loyalty from someone coming back that wouldn't have otherwise, it makes business sense for IHOP.
The omelettes and pancakes were what I paid for to receive the qualifying visits. This doesn't include the free food.
Now I'm reading it the way you intended. So, $34 spend to be able to redeem for 4 burgers probably is slightly in your favor (from the company's perspective). If you redeemed for 17 orders of pancakes, the company wins.
Quote from: mgk920 on January 09, 2023, 10:56:03 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on January 09, 2023, 03:11:02 PM
Quote from: mgk920 on January 09, 2023, 01:52:11 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on January 09, 2023, 01:41:01 PM
Quote from: kalvado on January 09, 2023, 01:36:51 PM
Quote from: MultiMillionMiler on January 09, 2023, 01:25:46 PM
Not to get into it and either, but it's paranoia. No amount of voting "anomalies" could offset an 8,000,000 or 11,000,000 majority for example. That's all I'm gonna say about that.
Correct me if I am wrong, but Bush II vs Al Gore boiled down to a much smaller number of ballots. Presidential elections are decided in swing states, representative majorities on different levels are decided in swing districts....
I agree, the Electoral College is a scam. Get rid of that and there won't be any elections decided by swing states/districts, or by small margins (Gore won the national popular vote by about one million votes, as I recall).
The biggest problem with that it one word - 'recount'. Also, the USA's midsection (aka 'flyover country') world really become FLYOVER COUNTRY - only the interests of the biggest urban markets would ever get any attention from the media and the people in charge (those founding fathers™ were really smart people!).
Mike
So everyone's vote would count equally? How awful
"A 'democracy' is two wolves and a sheep deciding on what to have for lunch. 'Liberty' is a well-armed sheep contesting the outcome."
Mike
Meanwhile, our actual system is more akin to four wolves and six sheep voting for three representatives deciding what to have for lunch, with two of the representatives voted for in districts comprising two wolves and one sheep, and the third in a district with four sheep.
Quote from: Scott5114 on January 07, 2023, 08:51:53 PM
When I'm high, I don't care, I just amuse myself with seeing how tightly I can pack the dishwasher or reorganizing the spice rack to be more efficient or whatever.
I don't understand why anyone would organize his spice rack in any manner that isn't alphabetical.
Quote from: JayhawkCO on January 10, 2023, 12:15:12 PM
Quote from: roadman65 on January 10, 2023, 12:10:20 PM
Oh one time I was a server. The manager comped a $50 meal due to an arrogant customer. I was his server, and I was super busy. He was impatient and saw he was not the only customer I had.
Of course my boss cared more about reputation than whether the man deserved it or not. However he didn't see when I was dealing with him. Well kinda. He asked for heated syrup, which I was going to gladly take care of for him. However other customers had request too, so I took care of my others first and when I finally walked passed his table he had his heated syrup. I then assumed one of my coworkers helped me out so I expressed how glad I was he got his syrup in a timely matter. His reaction was, " I got it myself" in a snarky tone like he was accusing me of forgetting him. Paid no attention to my concern which insulted me more than a lack of tip from him.
Welcome to the restaurant biz - the only industry where customers assume they more know about the business than those who work in it.
Are the customers who once waited tables for a summer in college and think all servers fall short of the sterling work they did better or worse than the customers who never worked in restaurants at all?
Quote from: abefroman329 on January 10, 2023, 01:15:32 PM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on January 10, 2023, 12:15:12 PM
Quote from: roadman65 on January 10, 2023, 12:10:20 PM
Oh one time I was a server. The manager comped a $50 meal due to an arrogant customer. I was his server, and I was super busy. He was impatient and saw he was not the only customer I had.
Of course my boss cared more about reputation than whether the man deserved it or not. However he didn't see when I was dealing with him. Well kinda. He asked for heated syrup, which I was going to gladly take care of for him. However other customers had request too, so I took care of my others first and when I finally walked passed his table he had his heated syrup. I then assumed one of my coworkers helped me out so I expressed how glad I was he got his syrup in a timely matter. His reaction was, " I got it myself" in a snarky tone like he was accusing me of forgetting him. Paid no attention to my concern which insulted me more than a lack of tip from him.
Welcome to the restaurant biz - the only industry where customers assume they more know about the business than those who work in it.
Are the customers who once waited tables for a summer in college and think all servers fall short of the sterling work they did better or worse than the customers who never worked in restaurants at all?
More annoying I think. When you get the whole "I used to wait tables" thing and then they proceed to one-time you (asking for one thing, when you return needing something else, etc.) and then follow up with a 14% tip? Sure you did, buddy. Sure you did. You must have been terrible.
Quote from: JayhawkCO on January 10, 2023, 01:29:15 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on January 10, 2023, 01:15:32 PM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on January 10, 2023, 12:15:12 PM
Quote from: roadman65 on January 10, 2023, 12:10:20 PM
Oh one time I was a server. The manager comped a $50 meal due to an arrogant customer. I was his server, and I was super busy. He was impatient and saw he was not the only customer I had.
Of course my boss cared more about reputation than whether the man deserved it or not. However he didn't see when I was dealing with him. Well kinda. He asked for heated syrup, which I was going to gladly take care of for him. However other customers had request too, so I took care of my others first and when I finally walked passed his table he had his heated syrup. I then assumed one of my coworkers helped me out so I expressed how glad I was he got his syrup in a timely matter. His reaction was, " I got it myself" in a snarky tone like he was accusing me of forgetting him. Paid no attention to my concern which insulted me more than a lack of tip from him.
Welcome to the restaurant biz - the only industry where customers assume they more know about the business than those who work in it.
Are the customers who once waited tables for a summer in college and think all servers fall short of the sterling work they did better or worse than the customers who never worked in restaurants at all?
More annoying I think. When you get the whole "I used to wait tables" thing and then they proceed to one-time you (asking for one thing, when you return needing something else, etc.) and then follow up with a 14% tip? Sure you did, buddy. Sure you did. You must have been terrible.
A friend of mine (with an extensive background in bartending/waiting tables) once reduced a waitress to tears because the waitress dropped a tray of drinks and said something like "this is why you don't overload a tray" and my friend thought she was blaming us for spilling the drinks. Don't ask me how. She blamed pregnancy hormones and refused to acknowledge that she'd done anything wrong.
Quote from: abefroman329 on January 10, 2023, 01:44:44 PM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on January 10, 2023, 01:29:15 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on January 10, 2023, 01:15:32 PM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on January 10, 2023, 12:15:12 PM
Quote from: roadman65 on January 10, 2023, 12:10:20 PM
Oh one time I was a server. The manager comped a $50 meal due to an arrogant customer. I was his server, and I was super busy. He was impatient and saw he was not the only customer I had.
Of course my boss cared more about reputation than whether the man deserved it or not. However he didn't see when I was dealing with him. Well kinda. He asked for heated syrup, which I was going to gladly take care of for him. However other customers had request too, so I took care of my others first and when I finally walked passed his table he had his heated syrup. I then assumed one of my coworkers helped me out so I expressed how glad I was he got his syrup in a timely matter. His reaction was, " I got it myself" in a snarky tone like he was accusing me of forgetting him. Paid no attention to my concern which insulted me more than a lack of tip from him.
Welcome to the restaurant biz - the only industry where customers assume they more know about the business than those who work in it.
Are the customers who once waited tables for a summer in college and think all servers fall short of the sterling work they did better or worse than the customers who never worked in restaurants at all?
More annoying I think. When you get the whole "I used to wait tables" thing and then they proceed to one-time you (asking for one thing, when you return needing something else, etc.) and then follow up with a 14% tip? Sure you did, buddy. Sure you did. You must have been terrible.
A friend of mine (with an extensive background in bartending/waiting tables) once reduced a waitress to tears because the waitress dropped a tray of drinks and said something like "this is why you don't overload a tray" and my friend thought she was blaming us for spilling the drinks. Don't ask me how. She blamed pregnancy hormones and refused to acknowledge that she'd done anything wrong.
I do want to hit in the septum people who say "Job opening!" when they hear a broken dish or glass. Cost of doing business sadly.
Quote from: kphoger on January 10, 2023, 01:13:20 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on January 07, 2023, 08:51:53 PM
When I'm high, I don't care, I just amuse myself with seeing how tightly I can pack the dishwasher or reorganizing the spice rack to be more efficient or whatever.
I don't understand why anyone would organize his spice rack in any manner that isn't alphabetical.
I only do that with CDs and DVDs, CDs by artist and DVDs by title (or series like
Star Wars). I sort my spice rack by container type and frequency of use since some of them come in giant Costco containers. Clothing is another type of sort as I sort my closet into clothing types and then by color. If I want to wear a black tee shirt, I can find it in the tee shirt section with its matching black plastic hanger. I rotate wearing other clothes like underwear and jeans so they wear more evenly.
Quote from: vdeane on January 10, 2023, 12:48:11 PM
Quote from: mgk920 on January 09, 2023, 10:56:03 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on January 09, 2023, 03:11:02 PM
Quote from: mgk920 on January 09, 2023, 01:52:11 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on January 09, 2023, 01:41:01 PM
Quote from: kalvado on January 09, 2023, 01:36:51 PM
Quote from: MultiMillionMiler on January 09, 2023, 01:25:46 PM
Not to get into it and either, but it's paranoia. No amount of voting "anomalies" could offset an 8,000,000 or 11,000,000 majority for example. That's all I'm gonna say about that.
Correct me if I am wrong, but Bush II vs Al Gore boiled down to a much smaller number of ballots. Presidential elections are decided in swing states, representative majorities on different levels are decided in swing districts....
I agree, the Electoral College is a scam. Get rid of that and there won't be any elections decided by swing states/districts, or by small margins (Gore won the national popular vote by about one million votes, as I recall).
The biggest problem with that it one word - 'recount'. Also, the USA's midsection (aka 'flyover country') world really become FLYOVER COUNTRY - only the interests of the biggest urban markets would ever get any attention from the media and the people in charge (those founding fathers™ were really smart people!).
Mike
So everyone's vote would count equally? How awful
"A 'democracy' is two wolves and a sheep deciding on what to have for lunch. 'Liberty' is a well-armed sheep contesting the outcome."
Mike
Meanwhile, our actual system is more akin to four wolves and six sheep voting for three representatives deciding what to have for lunch, with two of the representatives voted for in districts comprising two wolves and one sheep, and the third in a district with four sheep.
Given how everyone is willing to adopt a sheep and wolves analogy, its probably time to look for either a decent divorce lawyer or an ol'good dictator...
Quote from: kalvado on January 10, 2023, 03:15:57 PM
Given how everyone is willing to adopt a sheep and wolves analogy, its probably time to look for either a decent divorce lawyer or an ol'good dictator...
We have politicians on "both sides" that would love to fulfill role of the latter.
Quote from: JayhawkCO on January 10, 2023, 03:24:49 PM
Quote from: kalvado on January 10, 2023, 03:15:57 PM
Given how everyone is willing to adopt a sheep and wolves analogy, its probably time to look for either a decent divorce lawyer or an ol'good dictator...
We have politicians on "both sides" that would love to fulfill role of the latter.
Also, politicians get to make 90% of the rules which constitute their own jobs, so very little actually changes.
Quote from: JayhawkCO on January 10, 2023, 12:15:12 PM
Quote from: roadman65 on January 10, 2023, 12:10:20 PM
Oh one time I was a server. The manager comped a $50 meal due to an arrogant customer. I was his server, and I was super busy. He was impatient and saw he was not the only customer I had.
Of course my boss cared more about reputation than whether the man deserved it or not. However he didn't see when I was dealing with him. Well kinda. He asked for heated syrup, which I was going to gladly take care of for him. However other customers had request too, so I took care of my others first and when I finally walked passed his table he had his heated syrup. I then assumed one of my coworkers helped me out so I expressed how glad I was he got his syrup in a timely matter. His reaction was, " I got it myself" in a snarky tone like he was accusing me of forgetting him. Paid no attention to my concern which insulted me more than a lack of tip from him.
Welcome to the restaurant biz - the only industry where customers assume they more know about the business than those who work in it.
I think that's true of casino gaming too. The number of people who assert with confidence that we have a switch behind the counter that makes the machines pay out...
Quote from: kphoger on January 10, 2023, 01:13:20 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on January 07, 2023, 08:51:53 PM
When I'm high, I don't care, I just amuse myself with seeing how tightly I can pack the dishwasher or reorganizing the spice rack to be more efficient or whatever.
I don't understand why anyone would organize his spice rack in any manner that isn't alphabetical.
I actually don't have a traditional spice rack. Instead, one time when I was high, I found a small wire shelf that I had put in my locker in high school and had yet to find a use for since. I placed it over top of the bread, and then put a selection of our most frequently used spices and condiments (kosher salt, seasoned salt, a few other things I can't think of at the moment) on it. Before that they'd kind of float around the kitchen to wherever someone had used them last. (They still kind of do because my wife would rather die than put anything back where it goes, but at least it has a "correct place" now.)
The spices that are only used for cooking go in the little cabinet above the vent hood.
Quote from: kphoger on January 10, 2023, 01:13:20 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on January 07, 2023, 08:51:53 PM
When I'm high, I don't care, I just amuse myself with seeing how tightly I can pack the dishwasher or reorganizing the spice rack to be more efficient or whatever.
I don't understand why anyone would organize his spice rack in any manner that isn't alphabetical.
Color? Genus and species of the spice? Frequency of use?
I've spent a not-insignificant amount of time in casinos, and I'm fortunate not to have seen any meltdowns from guests. But I've heard stories.
When I was in Vegas in November, a young woman sitting next to me at a table said she wanted to be a dealer, and that she currently worked as a hairdresser. I said "you know the reaction you get when someone doesn't like the haircut you gave them? It's like that, only for your entire shift."
Quote from: kkt on January 10, 2023, 04:35:14 PM
Quote from: kphoger on January 10, 2023, 01:13:20 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on January 07, 2023, 08:51:53 PM
When I'm high, I don't care, I just amuse myself with seeing how tightly I can pack the dishwasher or reorganizing the spice rack to be more efficient or whatever.
I don't understand why anyone would organize his spice rack in any manner that isn't alphabetical.
Color? Genus and species of the spice? Frequency of use?
I can't think of a more logical way than alphabetical. Maybe most-used to least-used, but why?
Plus you'd have to decide whether Pink Himalayan Sea Salt should be filed under P for Pink, H for Himalayan, or S for Sea or Salt.
Quote from: abefroman329 on January 10, 2023, 04:46:44 PM
Quote from: kkt on January 10, 2023, 04:35:14 PM
Quote from: kphoger on January 10, 2023, 01:13:20 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on January 07, 2023, 08:51:53 PM
When I'm high, I don't care, I just amuse myself with seeing how tightly I can pack the dishwasher or reorganizing the spice rack to be more efficient or whatever.
I don't understand why anyone would organize his spice rack in any manner that isn't alphabetical.
Color? Genus and species of the spice? Frequency of use?
I can't think of a more logical way than alphabetical. Maybe most-used to least-used, but why?
Plus you'd have to decide whether Pink Himalayan Sea Salt should be filed under P for Pink, H for Himalayan, or S for Sea or Salt.
I organize them by type of food they're used with and by frequency of use. With spices, as with quite a few things, organizing things alphabetically is kind of a last resort.
(https://i.imgur.com/AcUWVoh.jpg)
The stuff on top is extra containers.
Windows 11, my computer has had a million more glitches ever since I upgraded to it.
Ours isn't alphabetical since it's a narrow cabinet and we have mini lazy Susans in there. The bottom is most common items. The middle is Latin cuisine. The upper is Asian cuisine.
Quote from: CtrlAltDel on January 10, 2023, 05:46:00 PM
I organize them by type of food they're used with and by frequency of use.
Quote from: JayhawkCO on January 10, 2023, 06:41:14 PM
The middle is Latin cuisine. The upper is Asian cuisine.
But aren't there spices you use in multiple cuisines?
Examples: I use cumin in Mexican food, but also in North African—type spice blends. I might put a bit of cinnamon in with the meat for enchiladas, or I might use a bit when making a homemade Chinese five-spice powder. I sometimes put turmeric in with the rice to boil to make it yellow, and I also put in the aforementioned North African—type spice blends. Et cetera.
Quote from: kphoger on January 10, 2023, 07:36:25 PM
Quote from: CtrlAltDel on January 10, 2023, 05:46:00 PM
I organize them by type of food they're used with and by frequency of use.
Quote from: JayhawkCO on January 10, 2023, 06:41:14 PM
The middle is Latin cuisine. The upper is Asian cuisine.
But aren't there spices you use in multiple cuisines?
Examples: I use cumin in Mexican food, but also in North African—type spice blends. I might put a bit of cinnamon in with the meat for enchiladas, or I might use a bit when making a homemade Chinese five-spice powder. I sometimes put turmeric in with the rice to boil to make it yellow, and I also put in the aforementioned North African—type spice blends. Et cetera.
If there's overlap, I choose the lower option.
MMM's latest scam split to his thread where it originated.
Ads for Camp Lejeune. Scams. Definitely scams.
I get that the people that were there probably suffered some sort of illness or injury, but at this point there are probably pennies left for the actual victims after all the scam TV ad lawyers get their cut. Also, I think about half of my spam email folder is for Camp Lejeune scams.
Quote from: tchafe1978 on January 11, 2023, 12:32:35 AM
Ads for Camp Lejeune. Scams. Definitely scams.
I get that the people that were there probably suffered some sort of illness or injury, but at this point there are probably pennies left for the actual victims after all the scam TV ad lawyers get their cut. Also, I think about half of my spam email folder is for Camp Lejeune scams.
I think you're right as attorney John Morgan hasn't spoken about this like he done with the Johnson and Johnson scandal with Round Up weed killer. Remember when non profit ads were playing out that scandal. Well Morgan stepped in for us not to buy into them but let his lawyers handle that. He hasn't tried to sell his firm to yet help with Camp LeJune victims AFAIK.
iPhone battery class action lawsuit: $25, two or three emails total.
Zoom class action lawsuit: $15 ($25 if you paid for Zoom), two or three emails total.
MacBook Pro keyboard class action lawsuit: $125 for me, $50 or $395 for others, one email so far, still ongoing.
Camp Lejeune class action lawsuit: TV ads all the time, and apparently 4-5 emails per day (although I don't get any), even for those who never went to the camp.
I just got a check in the mail for the Equifax identity breach settlement. $5.26. It was accompanied by a letter suggesting I contact a CPA for instructions on how to claim it on my taxes...
Quote from: Scott5114 on January 11, 2023, 07:17:08 AM
I just got a check in the mail for the Equifax identity breach settlement. $5.26. It was accompanied by a letter suggesting I contact a CPA for instructions on how to claim it on my taxes...
Lucky! Mine was $5.12.
Quote from: Scott5114 on January 11, 2023, 07:17:08 AM
I just got a check in the mail for the Equifax identity breach settlement. $5.26. It was accompanied by a letter suggesting I contact a CPA for instructions on how to claim it on my taxes...
I still can't believe they didn't get the death penalty for that mess. I've never understood how a company has a right to our SSN and everything that comes with it, and at minimum how that right can't be removed when they screw it up.
Quote from: SectorZ on January 11, 2023, 08:54:55 AM
Quote from: Scott5114 on January 11, 2023, 07:17:08 AM
I just got a check in the mail for the Equifax identity breach settlement. $5.26. It was accompanied by a letter suggesting I contact a CPA for instructions on how to claim it on my taxes...
I still can't believe they didn't get the death penalty for that mess. I've never understood how a company has a right to our SSN and everything that comes with it, and at minimum how that right can't be removed when they screw it up.
This in one of the big reasons why I consider the 16th Amendment to be a total scam. That and one of its biggest effects of working to keep the riff-raff out of the elites' country clubs.
Mike
I also consider those "x month's supply!" emergency food kits to be a scam.
Mike
Quote from: abefroman329 on January 10, 2023, 11:51:12 AM
The truth, of course, is somewhere between "marijuana is harmless" and "marijuana is 100 times as dangerous as whizzing on an electric fence." I've personally never argued that it's harmless, but I do believe it's less harmful than alcohol, and I also have a problem with the way the consumption of alcohol is glamorized almost everywhere you look, whereas with marijuana, we get dumbshit ONDCP ads with messages such as "don't get high more than three times, or someone will try to sexually assault you" (because that never happens when you get blackout drunk?)
The big difference for me is that there are non-intoxicating recreational uses for alcohol. Some people like the taste of alcoholic drinks. I know of no non-intoxicating recreational uses for weed. You don't smoke it because you like the aroma. You smoke it to get high. People do drink alcoholic beverages for reasons other than getting drunk.
It helps if the company involved has deep pockets--the Facebook Internet tracking settlement was about $50 per claimant.
Quote from: hbelkins on January 11, 2023, 12:03:33 PM
The big difference for me is that there are non-intoxicating recreational uses for alcohol. Some people like the taste of alcoholic drinks. I know of no non-intoxicating recreational uses for weed. You don't smoke it because you like the aroma. You smoke it to get high. People do drink alcoholic beverages for reasons other than getting drunk.
Never heard of medicinal marijuana?
Also, for the record, I like the taste of weed just fine.
Straight battery-electric cars and light trucks.
Mike
Quote from: hbelkins on January 11, 2023, 12:03:33 PM
The big difference for me is that there are non-intoxicating recreational uses for alcohol. Some people like the taste of alcoholic drinks. I know of no non-intoxicating recreational uses for weed. You don't smoke it because you like the aroma. You smoke it to get high. People do drink alcoholic beverages for reasons other than getting drunk.
Except, as we've already discussed, I think most people
wouldn't drink alcoholic beverages if there
weren't a buzz. That's true for me: I've never had any desire to try non-alcoholic versions of any alcoholic beverage. [insert history of Welch's grape juice here]
Quote from: kphoger on May 31, 2022, 03:48:11 PM
At some level, I agree: the effect of alcohol on one's behavior is by definition an intoxicating one. However, I disagree with the notion that having a moderately altered state of mind is the definition of intoxicated. Rather, intoxication is the state of having one's state of mind significantly altered, such that one's self control is noticeably inhibited. Therefore, the intoxicating nature of alcohol is part of both its appeal and its danger.
I know you're a Christian, so allow me to use a Biblical example. The intoxicating property of wine that prompted the proverb ...
"Who has woe? Who has sorrow? Who has strife? Who has complaining? Who has wounds without cause? Who has redness of eyes? Those who tarry long over wine ... (Proverbs 23:29-30a RSV)"
... is the very same intoxicating property of wine that prompted the psalmist to write ...
"Thou dost cause the grass to grow for ... man to cultivate, that he may bring forth ... wine to gladden the heart of man ... (Psalm 104:14-15a RSV)".
So, yes, I can say that having my "senses altered" is indeed part of "the point in drinking alcoholic beverages", and I believe that the moderate use of alcohol is wholly in keeping with the Christian virtues of sobriety and self-control.
In fact, alcohol above about 1.5% (ABV) can actually be tasted on the tongue, activating bitter and sweet receptors. Above about 20% ABV, an alcohol 'burn' becomes noticeable, which, while it isn't strictly a taste, does contribute to the overall flavor of the beverage. Alcohol also binds to other flavor agents, changing the way we perceive them. For example, removing the alcohol from a glass of wine would dramatically alter the flavor of that wine. All that is to say, you can't create a hard distinction between the flavor of wine and the intoxicating effects of wine, because alcohol contributes to
both.
Quote from: JayhawkCO on January 11, 2023, 12:17:58 PM
Also, for the record, I like the taste of weed just fine.
I've never smoked anything in my life, and I've never really had a desire to either. But I've considered trying out pipe smoking. I just love the smell of a tobacco shop, and I'm curious to know if any of that comes through in the flavor of the smoke.
Quote from: kphoger on January 11, 2023, 12:26:34 PM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on January 11, 2023, 12:17:58 PM
Also, for the record, I like the taste of weed just fine.
I've never smoked anything in my life, and I've never really had a desire to either. But I've considered trying out pipe smoking. I just love the smell of a tobacco shop, and I'm curious to know if any of that comes through in the flavor of the smoke.
I've never smoked a cigarette. Cigars are fun every once in a while, but I wake up the next day still tasting it. Never actually smoked a pipe but I wouldn't mind.
Marijuana barely gets you "high". It just makes you feel good and relaxed. It probably shouldn't even be called a "drug". It grows naturally on the earth and existed long before humans figured out how to ferment alcohol.
Health insurance is a scam.
With car insurance, I can try to find a friend to do the repairs, or I can try to do it myself, instead of filing an insurance claim and taking it to a mechanic. Therefore, we consumers have some measure of control over the cost of car repairs. In contrast, it's a felony to practice medicine without a license, and hospitals and drug companies are free to set whatever prices they want, leaving consumers with no measure of control over the cost of care.
Furthermore, car insurance has a deductible: the amount I have to pay out of pocket before coverage kicks in. Health insurance has that too, but then most plans still make you dish out a copay when you go to the doctor anyway. Besides which, health insurance deductibles are awfully high, considering the cost of the plan to begin with: it's ridiculous that paying $20,000 per year for a family plan can mean you still have to pay out of pocket.
And lastly, health insurance should not cover routine checkups, just as most car insurance doesn't cover oil changes and tire rotations. This is another way in which consumers are shielded from the true cost of care, which means they no longer have a free-market mechanism by which to keep that cost low.
... or maybe I mean 'racket' ...
Quote from: kphoger on January 11, 2023, 01:26:58 PMHealth insurance is a scam.
In the US, where medicine is regarded as a field for free enterprise, there are few checks on provider lobbies, and the health care system has spawned its own ecosystems for medical billing--yes, absolutely.
Quote from: kphoger on January 11, 2023, 01:26:58 PMWith car insurance, I can try to find a friend to do the repairs, or I can try to do it myself, instead of filing an insurance claim and taking it to a mechanic. Therefore, we consumers have some measure of control over the cost of car repairs. In contrast, it's a felony to practice medicine without a license, and hospitals and drug companies are free to set whatever prices they want, leaving consumers with no measure of control over the cost of care.
However, cars and health are similar in that prevention typically yields much better returns than cure. In that sense, performing oil changes regularly and driving defensively are comparable to adhering to a nutritious diet and staying physically active.
Quote from: kphoger on January 11, 2023, 01:26:58 PMAnd lastly, health insurance should not cover routine checkups, just as most car insurance doesn't cover oil changes and tire rotations. This is another way in which consumers are shielded from the true cost of care, which means they no longer have a free-market mechanism by which to keep that cost low.
I disagree on this one. Failure to cover routine checkups creates a perverse incentive to postpone necessary care until it is more expensive, less cost-efficient to provide, leads to worse outcomes, and yet is still covered. (If you are going to go with a car metaphor, I suggest routine maintenance is more comparable to grocery shopping than health care.)
A nationalized single-payer healthcare system would cost less per person and have fewer complications than the absolute clusterfuck we deal with. I had to go through so many hoops to get Medicaid coverage for a relative, which should in theory be simple because it's all in-house...but nope, the private carriers lobbied their way into screwing up the public market.
Quote from: Bruce on January 11, 2023, 02:00:50 PMA nationalized single-payer healthcare system would cost less per person and have fewer complications than the absolute clusterfuck we deal with. I had to go through so many hoops to get Medicaid coverage for a relative, which should in theory be simple because it's all in-house...but nope, the private carriers lobbied their way into screwing up the public market.
In Britain, the NHS, which provides cradle-to-grave coverage free at the point of use (aside from modest copays for prescription drugs, dentistry, and vision care), allocates about 10% of GDP. Our severely dysfunctional system allocates 20% of GDP yet struggles to provide good, worry-free care to patients who don't have goldplated insurance. Life expectancy is longer in Britain than in the US.
Quote from: hbelkins on January 11, 2023, 12:03:33 PMI know of no non-intoxicating recreational uses for weed. You don't smoke it because you like the aroma. You smoke it to get high.
Nonsense - in fact, if you use medical cannabis as prescribed, you won't get high.
It's odd how you regularly brag about having no personal knowledge of cannabis, yet you seem to be an expert on it at the same time.
Quote from: skluth on January 07, 2023, 11:29:29 AM
CBD. I know this was mentioned already but it deserves its own spotlight.
Actually, of all the people I know who've tried CBD oil for various things, I can't think of a single one who had bad things to say about it. Most of them reported positive results.
I smoked a cigarette once. It was disgusting and I have no desire to do it again.
Quote from: kphoger on January 11, 2023, 12:26:34 PMI've never smoked anything in my life, and I've never really had a desire to either. But I've considered trying out pipe smoking. I just love the smell of a tobacco shop, and I'm curious to know if any of that comes through in the flavor of the smoke.
I tried getting into smoking a pipe in college. The smell of burning pipe tobacco is heavenly, but it has a sickly-sweet taste when you smoke it.
Quote from: kphoger on January 11, 2023, 02:46:43 PM
Quote from: skluth on January 07, 2023, 11:29:29 AM
CBD. I know this was mentioned already but it deserves its own spotlight.
Actually, of all the people I know who've tried CBD oil for various things, I can't think of a single one who had bad things to say about it. Most of them reported positive results.
The only negative effects of marijuana are the consequences of it being illegal. So anti-legalization advocates use the circular argument: "It should remain illegal, due to how it destroys lives...because it's illegal".
Quote from: kphoger on January 11, 2023, 02:46:43 PM
Quote from: skluth on January 07, 2023, 11:29:29 AM
CBD. I know this was mentioned already but it deserves its own spotlight.
Actually, of all the people I know who've tried CBD oil for various things, I can't think of a single one who had bad things to say about it. Most of them reported positive results.
Depends on what it's being used for:
https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/cannabidiol-cbd-what-we-know-and-what-we-dont-2018082414476
Quote from: US 89 on January 11, 2023, 03:28:33 PM
I smoked a cigarette once. It was disgusting and I have no desire to do it again.
That is definitely for the best.
Quote from: J N Winkler on January 11, 2023, 01:52:24 PM
Quote from: kphoger on January 11, 2023, 01:26:58 PMHealth insurance is a scam.
In the US, where medicine is regarded as a field for free enterprise, there are few checks on provider lobbies, and the health care system has spawned its own ecosystems for medical billing--yes, absolutely.
Health insurance being tied to employment is especially a scam. Suspending employer-paid health insurance is one of the go-to methods for an employer to attempt to break a strike. Employment-based health insurance also helps to disincentivize entrepreneurship (reducing competition in the workplace, natch) and forces some people to work when they'd otherwise not–I had plenty of coworkers at the casino who were well over the normal retirement age who were working because they needed the health coverage. And then there's the whole chicken-and-egg problem of what to do with those whose medical needs are so great they temporarily or permanently cannot work because of them.
Quote from: Scott5114 on January 11, 2023, 04:26:20 PM
Quote from: J N Winkler on January 11, 2023, 01:52:24 PM
Quote from: kphoger on January 11, 2023, 01:26:58 PMHealth insurance is a scam.
In the US, where medicine is regarded as a field for free enterprise, there are few checks on provider lobbies, and the health care system has spawned its own ecosystems for medical billing--yes, absolutely.
Health insurance being tied to employment is especially a scam. Suspending employer-paid health insurance is one of the go-to methods for an employer to attempt to break a strike. Employment-based health insurance also helps to disincentivize entrepreneurship (reducing competition in the workplace, natch) and forces some people to work when they'd otherwise not–I had plenty of coworkers at the casino who were well over the normal retirement age who were working because they needed the health coverage. And then there's the whole chicken-and-egg problem of what to do with those whose medical needs are so great they temporarily or permanently cannot work because of them.
Sometimes I don't agree with you, but this isn't one of those times.
Quote from: J N Winkler on January 11, 2023, 02:11:11 PM
Quote from: Bruce on January 11, 2023, 02:00:50 PMA nationalized single-payer healthcare system would cost less per person and have fewer complications than the absolute clusterfuck we deal with. I had to go through so many hoops to get Medicaid coverage for a relative, which should in theory be simple because it's all in-house...but nope, the private carriers lobbied their way into screwing up the public market.
In Britain, the NHS, which provides cradle-to-grave coverage free at the point of use (aside from modest copays for prescription drugs, dentistry, and vision care), allocates about 10% of GDP. Our severely dysfunctional system allocates 20% of GDP yet struggles to provide good, worry-free care to patients who don't have goldplated insurance. Life expectancy is longer in Britain than in the US.
One thing to keep in mind is a profit to be made.
Significant cost and significant profit are associated with novel drugs treatment of hard to treat, deadly problems like HepC or oncology. Development costs are mind blowing, and patents don't run long. So the common strategy is to release in US at astronomic price, then later in Europe at huge price, then after few years drug becomes relatively affordable across the globe - but an even better one is released at astronomic price...
I am not sure about life expectancy, but given we are talking about WW2 generation expiring, and baby boomers reaching that point, demographics of Europe vs US may be part of the real. Would be interesting to look up data ..
I don't think there should be a right to make a profit in any given field. In fact, I'd say something like medicine is critical enough to the well-being of society that making a profit in medicine should be illegal.
Quote from: Scott5114 on January 11, 2023, 06:53:30 PM
I don't think there should be a right to make a profit in any given field. In fact, I'd say something like medicine is critical enough to the well-being of society that making a profit in medicine should be illegal.
So what would make people work in those fields and try to work even harder for better outcome? Money is a universal carrot. What do you want to replace it with? Just bare stick?
It's an everlasting question, not limited to medical field....
Quote from: kalvado on January 11, 2023, 06:57:24 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on January 11, 2023, 06:53:30 PM
I don't think there should be a right to make a profit in any given field. In fact, I'd say something like medicine is critical enough to the well-being of society that making a profit in medicine should be illegal.
So what would make people work in those fields and try to work even harder for better outcome? Money is a universal carrot. What do you want to replace it with? Just bare stick?
It's an everlasting question, not limited to medical field....
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/59/Jonas_Salk_candid.jpg/220px-Jonas_Salk_candid.jpg)
Quote from: Scott5114 on January 11, 2023, 06:53:30 PM
I don't think there should be a right to make a profit in any given field. In fact, I'd say something like medicine is critical enough to the well-being of society that making a profit in medicine should be illegal.
But they do deserve the highest salaries.
Let me get this interpretation straight. While I agree with you that medicine (and politics) should not be a profit driven industry, if we do that to all industries that would murder any interest in doing said jobs, resulting in massive unemployment for people cause there's no incentive to work. 45 years of slaving for capitalism just to be forced by law to break even, then we die. That's a disaster.
Quote from: Scott5114 on January 11, 2023, 07:01:38 PM
Quote from: kalvado on January 11, 2023, 06:57:24 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on January 11, 2023, 06:53:30 PM
I don't think there should be a right to make a profit in any given field. In fact, I'd say something like medicine is critical enough to the well-being of society that making a profit in medicine should be illegal.
So what would make people work in those fields and try to work even harder for better outcome? Money is a universal carrot. What do you want to replace it with? Just bare stick?
It's an everlasting question, not limited to medical field....
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/59/Jonas_Salk_candid.jpg/220px-Jonas_Salk_candid.jpg)
One altruistic person can make a difference. Modern drug development can take billions of dollars and thousands man years. Most of those hundreds and thousands people working don't get recognition beyond the paycheck....
Quote from: Roadgeek Adam on January 11, 2023, 07:08:18 PM
Let me get this interpretation straight. While I agree with you that medicine (and politics) should not be a profit driven industry, if we do that to all industries that would murder any interest in doing said jobs, resulting in massive unemployment for people cause there's no incentive to work. 45 years of slaving for capitalism just to be forced by law to break even, then we die. That's a disaster.
By saying "there is not a right for you to make a profit in any given field", I simply mean exactly that. I am tired of policy decisions being made on the basis of "somebody makes money doing this so therefore it's untouchable". You could probably profit by killing people and selling their organs on the free market too, but somewhere along the line we decided the interest everyone has in not being killed and having their organs sold on the free market outweighs the interest in creating jobs doing that.
I think we should be more willing to re-evaluate whether allowing someone to profit on something is a good idea or not, and not just assume that because someone makes a profit doing it we should allow it because it creates jobs or whatever.
Thus going back to healthcare: one of the arguments against a single-payer system is "think of all of the people in the health insurance industry that will lose their jobs".
I don't give a damn about their jobs. I'd rather people live than health insurance people have jobs. The health insurance people can figure out other arrangements for employment. The dead people can't make other arrangements because they're dead.
But my point is that if you strip people of their "right to profit", there would be no incentive for anyone to work. No one takes a job expecting to not make some kind of profit/return on their time investment. At that point, there would be no one working and society would probably come to a complete halt. And even as a big government-welfare socialist myself, that's just asking to doom society.
As I said, I have no problem regulating profit out of medicals/political industries. It's a big no-no that people make profit over death. (We probably have the cure for cancer somewhere, but it's big money in keeping people sick.) But if we do it in all industries, the entire country would grind to a halt inevitably?
Quote from: Scott5114 on January 11, 2023, 07:17:23 PM
Quote from: Roadgeek Adam on January 11, 2023, 07:08:18 PM
Let me get this interpretation straight. While I agree with you that medicine (and politics) should not be a profit driven industry, if we do that to all industries that would murder any interest in doing said jobs, resulting in massive unemployment for people cause there's no incentive to work. 45 years of slaving for capitalism just to be forced by law to break even, then we die. That's a disaster.
By saying "there is not a right for you to make a profit in any given field", I simply mean exactly that. I am tired of policy decisions being made on the basis of "somebody makes money doing this so therefore it's untouchable". You could probably profit by killing people and selling their organs on the free market too, but somewhere along the line we decided the interest everyone has in not being killed and having their organs sold on the free market outweighs the interest in creating jobs doing that.
I think we should be more willing to re-evaluate whether allowing someone to profit on something is a good idea or not, and not just assume that because someone makes a profit doing it we should allow it because it creates jobs or whatever.
Thus going back to healthcare: one of the arguments against a single-payer system is "think of all of the people in the health insurance industry that will lose their jobs".
I don't give a damn about their jobs. I'd rather people live than health insurance people have jobs. The health insurance people can figure out other arrangements for employment. The dead people can't make other arrangements because they're dead.
Few people care about hospital CEOs and accounting offices.
Here is another dilemma, though: doctors are basically allowed to practice if they are qualified. Who can determine that? Of course other doctors.
Now that creates a negative incentive to keep competition away an limit influx of new professionals.
50 years later, lots of experienced baby boomers head to retirement....
Now, while we are at this,. What do you think about unions?
Quote from: Roadgeek Adam on January 11, 2023, 07:22:44 PM
But my point is that if you strip people of their "right to profit", there would be no incentive for anyone to work. No one takes a job expecting to not make some kind of profit/return on their time investment. At that point, there would be no one working and society would probably come to a complete halt. And even as a big government-welfare socialist myself, that's just asking to doom society.
As I said, I have no problem regulating profit out of medicals/political industries. It's a big no-no that people make profit over death. (We probably have the cure for cancer somewhere, but it's big money in keeping people sick.) But if we do it in all industries, the entire country would grind to a halt inevitably?
You're reading something there that I didn't write. I'm saying you don't have a
right to profit. In the same way nobody has a
right to drive a car. It is a privilege that is extended on good behavior. Likewise, I don't think anyone should have a
right to make money, I don't know, selling fossil fuels or killing rare wildlife or shooting orphans in the head or whatever else if we come to a collective agreement that we're worse off as a society with that being allowed.
As it is now, if you try to regulate most anything, people will fall down on the floor, begin wailing uncontrollably, snot all over their red, swollen face, choking back tearful sobs as they cry out in a high-pitched voice "but somebody makes money doing that!" I just think we should respond to that with "So what?"
Remember, I live in Oklahoma. We get a lot more of that profit tantrum behavior here than in New York, where they tell people like that to grow up and think of someone other than themselves.
Quote from: kalvado on January 11, 2023, 07:24:45 PM
What do you think about unions?
As I said not too long ago when the subject came up, "At my last job, I'd have gladly paid $20 a month to tell my boss to go fuck herself."
Quote from: Roadgeek Adam on January 11, 2023, 07:22:44 PM
But my point is that if you strip people of their "right to profit", there would be no incentive for anyone to work. No one takes a job expecting to not make some kind of profit/return on their time investment. At that point, there would be no one working and society would probably come to a complete halt. And even as a big government-welfare socialist myself, that's just asking to doom society.
As I said, I have no problem regulating profit out of medicals/political industries. It's a big no-no that people make profit over death. (We probably have the cure for cancer somewhere, but it's big money in keeping people sick.) But if we do it in all industries, the entire country would grind to a halt inevitably?
Hm. You might look at the funeral industry and be horrified, then, especially since in most states, oversight boards are simply filled with funeral home directors. It's little mystery why funerals are so expensive...
Quote from: Scott5114 on January 11, 2023, 07:29:38 PM
Quote from: Roadgeek Adam on January 11, 2023, 07:22:44 PM
But my point is that if you strip people of their "right to profit", there would be no incentive for anyone to work. No one takes a job expecting to not make some kind of profit/return on their time investment. At that point, there would be no one working and society would probably come to a complete halt. And even as a big government-welfare socialist myself, that's just asking to doom society.
As I said, I have no problem regulating profit out of medicals/political industries. It's a big no-no that people make profit over death. (We probably have the cure for cancer somewhere, but it's big money in keeping people sick.) But if we do it in all industries, the entire country would grind to a halt inevitably?
You're reading something there that I didn't write. I'm saying you don't have a right to profit. In the same way nobody has a right to drive a car. It is a privilege that is extended on good behavior. Likewise, I don't think anyone should have a right to make money, I don't know, selling fossil fuels or killing rare wildlife or shooting orphans in the head or whatever else if we come to a collective agreement that we're worse off as a society with that being allowed.
As it is now, if you try to regulate most anything, people will fall down on the floor, begin wailing uncontrollably, snot all over their red, swollen face, choking back tearful sobs as they cry out in a high-pitched voice "but somebody makes money doing that!" I just think we should respond to that with "So what?"
Remember, I live in Oklahoma. We get a lot more of that profit tantrum behavior here than in New York, where they tell people like that to grow up and think of someone other than themselves.
Quote from: kalvado on January 11, 2023, 07:24:45 PM
What do you think about unions?
As I said not too long ago when the subject came up, "At my last job, I'd have gladly paid $20 a month to tell my boss to go fuck herself."
It is fairly straightforward to ban everyone from doing something. A bit more tricky with "except for the government".. Think killing people. Everything is well defined in criminal code, including government's right for capital punishment where it exists.
Now, how do you force SOME people into doing something? Preferably doing it well?
Regulation of healthcare already exists - think about all those licenses and certifications. But how do you regulate the reward for someone who literally makes the living looking into people's shitholes? I mean proctologists....
Wait are you talking about the insurance companies or the doctors themselves? I think Doctors and even nurses earn every penny. With the amount of debt you accrue and decade+ of your life studying/going to med school and running 80 hr shifts in residency, and very high malpractice insurance, I think their salaries should be much higher. I mean tik tok influencers can make 6x the salary of a neurosurgeon, so that aspect alone is justification for higher pay. I would say you have a right to make what your Job deserves, which is often way more than minimum wage. And that doesn't just go by skill level. A fast food worker in NYC can be extremely stressed out all day on the job having to flip from one customer to another extremely fast without a break, whereas a computer programmer can finish their project or whatever early and just relax in the cushy office the rest of the time. The same reason truckers can make 6 figures. For an extremely high IQ person "high level jobs" can be just as easy as an average person with a minimum wage job, even without the exhaustion factor. But why is selling fossil fuels in the same category of killing orphans and endangered wildlife?
Quote from: Rothman on January 11, 2023, 07:33:45 PMIt's little mystery why funerals are so expensive...
Well, all of that and the fact that three companies hold a near-oligarchy on all of the funeral parlors in the country. And the fact that you have to buy the casket from the funeral parlor.
I know way too much about this, having worked on a class-action lawsuit brought against the three companies about fifteen years ago.
Quote from: Scott5114 on January 11, 2023, 07:29:38 PM
Remember, I live in Oklahoma. We get a lot more of that profit tantrum behavior here than in New York, where they tell people like that to grow up and think of someone other than themselves.
My oh my is THAT a rose-tinted view of how things work in New York. :-D
Quote from: Duke87 on January 11, 2023, 08:16:08 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on January 11, 2023, 07:29:38 PM
Remember, I live in Oklahoma. We get a lot more of that profit tantrum behavior here than in New York, where they tell people like that to grow up and think of someone other than themselves.
My oh my is THAT a rose-tinted view of how things work in New York. :-D
Eh, I've never been there. 🤷
Quote from: MultiMillionMiler on January 11, 2023, 07:44:50 PM
Wait are you talking about the insurance companies or the doctors themselves? I think Doctors and even nurses earn every penny. With the amount of debt you accrue and decade+ of your life studying/going to med school and running 80 hr shifts in residency, and very high malpractice insurance, I think their salaries should be much higher. I mean tik tok influencers can make 6x the salary of a neurosurgeon, so that aspect alone is justification for higher pay. I would say you have a right to make what your Job deserves, which is often way more than minimum wage. And that doesn't just go by skill level. A fast food worker in NYC can be extremely stressed out all day on the job having to flip from one customer to another extremely fast without a break, whereas a computer programmer can finish their project or whatever early and just relax in the cushy office the rest of the time. The same reason truckers can make 6 figures. For an extremely high IQ person "high level jobs" can be just as easy as an average person with a minimum wage job, even without the exhaustion factor. But why is selling fossil fuels in the same category of killing orphans and endangered wildlife?
"To each according to his contribution" was one of basic principles of society operation promoted by the Soviet Union... Just saying
Quote from: Scott5114 on January 11, 2023, 08:19:31 PM
Quote from: Duke87 on January 11, 2023, 08:16:08 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on January 11, 2023, 07:29:38 PM
Remember, I live in Oklahoma. We get a lot more of that profit tantrum behavior here than in New York, where they tell people like that to grow up and think of someone other than themselves.
My oh my is THAT a rose-tinted view of how things work in New York. :-D
Eh, I've never been there. 🤷
In New York, if you have a lot of money, you can simply tell the government to shut up and they will do so. At least that is my understanding.
Quote from: MultiMillionMiler on January 11, 2023, 07:44:50 PM
A fast food worker in NYC can be extremely stressed out all day on the job having to flip from one customer to another extremely fast without a break, whereas a computer programmer can finish their project or whatever early and just relax in the cushy office the rest of the time.
To get his job, the computer programmer needed 4+ years of college, which he probably paid tens of thousands for. The fast food worker needed a week of training.
If the computer programmer quits his job, the pool of possible replacements is exponentially smaller than the pool of possible replacements if the fast food worker quits his job.
If the computer programmer stops working, the entire project stops for days, weeks, or perhaps permanently depending on how valuable he was to the team. To replace him, they have to hire from a much smaller pool and train that hire for much longer than in the fast food situation. If the fast food worker stops working, orders might take an extra minute or two until they hire someone else from a large pool and train him in a few days.
If the fast food worker, who needed no prior education and is fully trained within a week, is paid more than the computer programmer who needed to spend thousands on 4+ years of college, given the two options, is anyone going to choose to be a computer programmer? Nope. What happens then? With no computer programmers, we don't technologically advance as a society.
(I know we have a lot of users on here who want to go back to more basic times, but quality-of-life indexes disagree.)
The point is, supply and demand defeats feelings every time. Does the fast food worker have a harder job? Depending on how you look at it, maybe. (In my opinion, absolutely not - the average person would do far better working fast food than they would programming computers) But even if he does, the supply is higher and the demand is lower. That means less pay.
There are also a lot of jobs that require a college degree that simply don't pay enough. In my opinion, this an area where our education system falls way short. Kids are told that going to college is a good option, which in general I agree with. But what they're not told is that some college majors are, to suit the thread, scams. Art, theater, graphic design, culinary arts, fashion design, athletic training, etc. - sure, there are well-paying jobs to be had in those areas, but a large chunk of people who major in those things will end up with a job that doesn't pay enough to dig them out from under a mountain of student debt.
Quote from: abefroman329 on January 11, 2023, 02:14:04 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on January 11, 2023, 12:03:33 PMI know of no non-intoxicating recreational uses for weed. You don't smoke it because you like the aroma. You smoke it to get high.
Nonsense - in fact, if you use medical cannabis as prescribed, you won't get high.
There's no such thing as using medical marijuana as prescribed. It's illegal for doctors to prescribe it in the United States. Some doctors may recommend it, but that recommendation is not a prescription. As a schedule 1 substance, even doing medical research that might lead to confirming medical benefit for mariuana is illegal.
Quote from: thspfc on January 11, 2023, 08:35:31 PM
Quote from: MultiMillionMiler on January 11, 2023, 07:44:50 PM
A fast food worker in NYC can be extremely stressed out all day on the job having to flip from one customer to another extremely fast without a break, whereas a computer programmer can finish their project or whatever early and just relax in the cushy office the rest of the time.
To get his job, the computer programmer needed 4+ years of college, which he probably paid tens of thousands for. The fast food worker needed a week of training.
If the computer programmer quits his job, the pool of possible replacements is exponentially smaller than the pool of possible replacements if the fast food worker quits his job.
If the computer programmer stops working, the entire project stops for days, weeks, or perhaps permanently depending on how valuable he was to the team. To replace him, they have to hire from a much smaller pool and train that hire for much longer than in the fast food situation. If the fast food worker stops working, orders might take an extra minute or two until they hire someone else from a large pool and train him in a few days.
If the fast food worker, who needed no prior education and is fully trained within a week, is paid more than the computer programmer who needed to spend thousands on 4+ years of college, given the two options, is anyone going to choose to be a computer programmer? Nope. What happens then? With no computer programmers, we don't technologically advance as a society.
(I know we have a lot of users on here who want to go back to more basic times, but quality-of-life indexes disagree.)
The point is, supply and demand defeats feelings every time. Does the fast food worker have a harder job? Depending on how you look at it, maybe. (In my opinion, absolutely not - the average person would do far better working fast food than they would programming computers) But even if he does, the supply is higher and the demand is lower. That means less pay.
There are also a lot of jobs that require a college degree that simply don't pay enough. In my opinion, this an area where our education system falls way short. Kids are told that going to college is a good option, which in general I agree with. But what they're not told is that some college majors are, to suit the thread, scams. Art, theater, graphic design, culinary arts, fashion design, athletic training, etc. - sure, there are well-paying jobs to be had in those areas, but a large chunk of people who major in those things will end up with a job that doesn't pay enough to dig them out from under a mountain of student debt.
My justice and your justice are not necessarily the same thing. What you say is totally true from the programmer's perspective (who would likely to faint out in the kitchen), but not from an overworked burger flipper's perspective who failed that damn computer class in high school twice.
Fun fact: as far as I know, McDonalds required everyone in HQ to spent some time (a day a year? every few years?) as a regular restaurant crew. I have a picture of my friend, a high-level database designer, actually flipping burgers...
Mother nature is neither about justice, political correctness or anything like that. It's about the survival of the fittest. MCPH1 is probably the most insulting thing ever existed - by today's standards...
Quote from: kalvado on January 11, 2023, 08:49:03 PM
Quote from: thspfc on January 11, 2023, 08:35:31 PM
Quote from: MultiMillionMiler on January 11, 2023, 07:44:50 PM
A fast food worker in NYC can be extremely stressed out all day on the job having to flip from one customer to another extremely fast without a break, whereas a computer programmer can finish their project or whatever early and just relax in the cushy office the rest of the time.
To get his job, the computer programmer needed 4+ years of college, which he probably paid tens of thousands for. The fast food worker needed a week of training.
If the computer programmer quits his job, the pool of possible replacements is exponentially smaller than the pool of possible replacements if the fast food worker quits his job.
If the computer programmer stops working, the entire project stops for days, weeks, or perhaps permanently depending on how valuable he was to the team. To replace him, they have to hire from a much smaller pool and train that hire for much longer than in the fast food situation. If the fast food worker stops working, orders might take an extra minute or two until they hire someone else from a large pool and train him in a few days.
If the fast food worker, who needed no prior education and is fully trained within a week, is paid more than the computer programmer who needed to spend thousands on 4+ years of college, given the two options, is anyone going to choose to be a computer programmer? Nope. What happens then? With no computer programmers, we don't technologically advance as a society.
(I know we have a lot of users on here who want to go back to more basic times, but quality-of-life indexes disagree.)
The point is, supply and demand defeats feelings every time. Does the fast food worker have a harder job? Depending on how you look at it, maybe. (In my opinion, absolutely not - the average person would do far better working fast food than they would programming computers) But even if he does, the supply is higher and the demand is lower. That means less pay.
There are also a lot of jobs that require a college degree that simply don't pay enough. In my opinion, this an area where our education system falls way short. Kids are told that going to college is a good option, which in general I agree with. But what they're not told is that some college majors are, to suit the thread, scams. Art, theater, graphic design, culinary arts, fashion design, athletic training, etc. - sure, there are well-paying jobs to be had in those areas, but a large chunk of people who major in those things will end up with a job that doesn't pay enough to dig them out from under a mountain of student debt.
What you say is totally true from the programmer's perspective (who would likely to faint out in the kitchen)
Would he be likely to faint out in the kitchen though? Nah. Chances are, unless he works really slowly or poorly under pressure (traits that are not common for computer programmers), he would be just fine after a few days of training. The fast food worker would still be hopelessly lost at computer programming after the same amount of training in that field.
Quotewho failed that damn computer class in high school twice.
And whose fault is that?
QuoteFun fact: as far as I know, McDonalds required everyone in HQ to spent some time (a day a year? every few years?) as a regular restaurant crew. I have a picture of my friend, a high-level database designer, actually flipping burgers...
I think that's a great idea, but it doesn't refute my point.
Quote from: kalvado on January 11, 2023, 06:42:19 PMQuote from: J N Winkler on January 11, 2023, 02:11:11 PMQuote from: Bruce on January 11, 2023, 02:00:50 PMA nationalized single-payer healthcare system would cost less per person and have fewer complications than the absolute clusterfuck we deal with. I had to go through so many hoops to get Medicaid coverage for a relative, which should in theory be simple because it's all in-house...but nope, the private carriers lobbied their way into screwing up the public market.
In Britain, the NHS, which provides cradle-to-grave coverage free at the point of use (aside from modest copays for prescription drugs, dentistry, and vision care), allocates about 10% of GDP. Our severely dysfunctional system allocates 20% of GDP yet struggles to provide good, worry-free care to patients who don't have goldplated insurance. Life expectancy is longer in Britain than in the US.
One thing to keep in mind is a profit to be made.
This is true. And I realize there has been a debate upthread about whether there is a right to make a profit in any given sector of the economy. From an economist's point of view, however, profit is monopoly and monopoly is profit. There is abundant precedent for regulating monopolies in all sectors of the economy to promote competition, as well as for capping rate of return in industries (generally utilities) where the returns to scale are so compelling they are defined as natural monopolies.
Quote from: kalvado on January 11, 2023, 06:42:19 PMSignificant cost and significant profit are associated with novel drugs treatment of hard to treat, deadly problems like HepC or oncology. Development costs are mind blowing, and patents don't run long. So the common strategy is to release in US at astronomic price, then later in Europe at huge price, then after few years drug becomes relatively affordable across the globe - but an even better one is released at astronomic price...
It is a stylized fact that pharmaceutical firms expect to recoup drug development costs in the US market. And it is also true that socialized health care systems sometimes restrict expensive treatments that physicians in the US would otherwise prescribe, because the benefits are not considered to justify the costs (e.g., five figures for a drug that buys at most one additional month of very low quality of life for end-stage cancer patients). However, we in the US pay far too much even for well-established drugs like insulin, and pharmaceuticals in general are only a facet of the problem with our health care system.
Quote from: kalvado on January 11, 2023, 06:42:19 PMI am not sure about life expectancy, but given we are talking about WW2 generation expiring, and baby boomers reaching that point, demographics of Europe vs US may be part of the real. Would be interesting to look up data ..
The US has a much higher Gini coefficient for per-capita income than any major European country. I think that goes some way toward explaining bad health care outcomes for us.
Quote from: thspfc on January 11, 2023, 09:00:30 PM
Quote from: kalvado on January 11, 2023, 08:49:03 PM
Quote from: thspfc on January 11, 2023, 08:35:31 PM
Quote from: MultiMillionMiler on January 11, 2023, 07:44:50 PM
A fast food worker in NYC can be extremely stressed out all day on the job having to flip from one customer to another extremely fast without a break, whereas a computer programmer can finish their project or whatever early and just relax in the cushy office the rest of the time.
To get his job, the computer programmer needed 4+ years of college, which he probably paid tens of thousands for. The fast food worker needed a week of training.
If the computer programmer quits his job, the pool of possible replacements is exponentially smaller than the pool of possible replacements if the fast food worker quits his job.
If the computer programmer stops working, the entire project stops for days, weeks, or perhaps permanently depending on how valuable he was to the team. To replace him, they have to hire from a much smaller pool and train that hire for much longer than in the fast food situation. If the fast food worker stops working, orders might take an extra minute or two until they hire someone else from a large pool and train him in a few days.
If the fast food worker, who needed no prior education and is fully trained within a week, is paid more than the computer programmer who needed to spend thousands on 4+ years of college, given the two options, is anyone going to choose to be a computer programmer? Nope. What happens then? With no computer programmers, we don't technologically advance as a society.
(I know we have a lot of users on here who want to go back to more basic times, but quality-of-life indexes disagree.)
The point is, supply and demand defeats feelings every time. Does the fast food worker have a harder job? Depending on how you look at it, maybe. (In my opinion, absolutely not - the average person would do far better working fast food than they would programming computers) But even if he does, the supply is higher and the demand is lower. That means less pay.
There are also a lot of jobs that require a college degree that simply don't pay enough. In my opinion, this an area where our education system falls way short. Kids are told that going to college is a good option, which in general I agree with. But what they're not told is that some college majors are, to suit the thread, scams. Art, theater, graphic design, culinary arts, fashion design, athletic training, etc. - sure, there are well-paying jobs to be had in those areas, but a large chunk of people who major in those things will end up with a job that doesn't pay enough to dig them out from under a mountain of student debt.
What you say is totally true from the programmer's perspective (who would likely to faint out in the kitchen)
Would he be likely to faint out in the kitchen though? Nah. Chances are, unless he works really slowly or poorly under pressure (traits that are not common for computer programmers), he would be just fine after a few days of training. The fast food worker would still be hopelessly lost at computer programming after the same amount of training in that field.
Quotewho failed that damn computer class in high school twice.
And whose fault is that?
QuoteFun fact: as far as I know, McDonalds required everyone in HQ to spent some time (a day a year? every few years?) as a regular restaurant crew. I have a picture of my friend, a high-level database designer, actually flipping burgers...
I think that's a great idea, but it doesn't refute my point.
Who's fault is that John has IQ of 140 and Jim is only 90? That Jay suffers from muscular degradation and Jack can win heavy lifting competition with little training? That Bob struggles with hand-eye coordination, and Tom can thread the needle with his eyes closed?
I don't know how to answer those questions. I don't know how ideal society would look like.
I am very willing to provoke others to express their thought though :)
Quote from: J N Winkler on January 11, 2023, 09:13:41 PM
Quote from: kalvado on January 11, 2023, 06:42:19 PMQuote from: J N Winkler on January 11, 2023, 02:11:11 PMQuote from: Bruce on January 11, 2023, 02:00:50 PMA nationalized single-payer healthcare system would cost less per person and have fewer complications than the absolute clusterfuck we deal with. I had to go through so many hoops to get Medicaid coverage for a relative, which should in theory be simple because it's all in-house...but nope, the private carriers lobbied their way into screwing up the public market.
In Britain, the NHS, which provides cradle-to-grave coverage free at the point of use (aside from modest copays for prescription drugs, dentistry, and vision care), allocates about 10% of GDP. Our severely dysfunctional system allocates 20% of GDP yet struggles to provide good, worry-free care to patients who don't have goldplated insurance. Life expectancy is longer in Britain than in the US.
One thing to keep in mind is a profit to be made.
This is true. And I realize there has been a debate upthread about whether there is a right to make a profit in any given sector of the economy. From an economist's point of view, however, profit is monopoly and monopoly is profit. There is abundant precedent for regulating monopolies in all sectors of the economy to promote competition, as well as for capping rate of return in industries (generally utilities) where the returns to scale are so compelling they are defined as natural monopolies.
Quote from: kalvado on January 11, 2023, 06:42:19 PMSignificant cost and significant profit are associated with novel drugs treatment of hard to treat, deadly problems like HepC or oncology. Development costs are mind blowing, and patents don't run long. So the common strategy is to release in US at astronomic price, then later in Europe at huge price, then after few years drug becomes relatively affordable across the globe - but an even better one is released at astronomic price...
It is a stylized fact that pharmaceutical firms expect to recoup drug development costs in the US market. And it is also true that socialized health care systems sometimes restrict expensive treatments that physicians in the US would otherwise prescribe, because the benefits are not considered to justify the costs (e.g., five figures for a drug that buys at most one additional month of very low quality of life for end-stage cancer patients). However, we in the US pay far too much even for well-established drugs like insulin, and pharmaceuticals in general are only a facet of the problem with our health care system.
Quote from: kalvado on January 11, 2023, 06:42:19 PMI am not sure about life expectancy, but given we are talking about WW2 generation expiring, and baby boomers reaching that point, demographics of Europe vs US may be part of the real. Would be interesting to look up data ..
The US has a much higher Gini coefficient for per-capita income than any major European country. I think that goes some way toward explaining bad health care outcomes for us.
Well, but how do you suggest to fund drug development, when 1 out of 1000 promising candidates makes in through long and expensive testing and vetting process to the pharmacy? So far, it is essentially a venture capitalist or a big company funding 1000 candidates with the hope to get 1 successful to pay for all of them. Sure its possible to make that a government function. I am not sure it will be way more efficient or cheaper. And well, not paying for development isn't a better choice in a long run. After all, even with very basic treatment life expectancy would be much better than 100 years ago.
As for "very expensive treatment"... Human life is priceless**. So standard criterion of $50k/year of quality life isn't too unreasonable, at least for me as a relatively healthy person. Possibly my opinion would be different if I had a different health situation. That is in the ballpark for annual GDP per capita as well....
______________________
**"priceless" is between $1M and $10M for engineering calculations.
A good number of medical developments are already funded through government grants (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK50972/). My reading of that article makes it seem to me like the current model is that government-funded researchers do the initial science work and then the capitalists do feasibility research afterward that leads it to becoming a product.
Quote from: kalvado on January 11, 2023, 09:26:25 PMWell, but how do you suggest to fund drug development, when 1 out of 1000 promising candidates makes in through long and expensive testing and vetting process to the pharmacy? So far, it is essentially a venture capitalist or a big company funding 1000 candidates with the hope to get 1 successful to pay for all of them. Sure its possible to make that a government function. I am not sure it will be way more efficient or cheaper. And well, not paying for development isn't a better choice in a long run. After all, even with very basic treatment life expectancy would be much better than 100 years ago.
We do already have significant government involvement in pharmaceutical development--much of the basic research occurs in government labs.
As much of the cost of bringing a new drug to market is incurred in clinical trials, I think giving Medicare negotiating authority (which, per current legislation, it does not have) would lead to the price finding a level between the US and other First World countries that have stringent drug licensing.
And yes, it is true making health care more accessible to a previously underserved population with easily controllable problems (as community rating tried to do for people previously considered all but uninsurable, like Type I diabetics) is one way to boost life expectancy. I see this as a feature rather than a bug of socialized health care systems.
Quote from: kalvado on January 11, 2023, 09:26:25 PMAs for "very expensive treatment"... Human life is priceless**. So standard criterion of $50k/year of quality life isn't too unreasonable, at least for me as a relatively healthy person. Possibly my opinion would be different if I had a different health situation. That is in the ballpark for annual GDP per capita as well....
______________________
**"priceless" is between $1M and $10M for engineering calculations.
I think this is more or less how Britain's NICE (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Institute_for_Health_and_Care_Excellence) evaluates cost-effectiveness. The key criterion is cost per quality-adjusted life year gained. One example might be Avastin as part of a third-line treatment for Stage IV colon cancer which has ceased to respond to first- and second-line therapies. At that stage the patient might be barely conscious, so it would not be considered a good use of resources to spend, say, $30,000 for an additional month in a coma followed by death, which the quality adjustment would dial down to no additional lifetime gained.
Quote from: kkt on January 11, 2023, 08:41:36 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on January 11, 2023, 02:14:04 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on January 11, 2023, 12:03:33 PMI know of no non-intoxicating recreational uses for weed. You don't smoke it because you like the aroma. You smoke it to get high.
Nonsense - in fact, if you use medical cannabis as prescribed, you won't get high.
There's no such thing as using medical marijuana as prescribed. It's illegal for doctors to prescribe it in the United States. Some doctors may recommend it, but that recommendation is not a prescription. As a schedule 1 substance, even doing medical research that might lead to confirming medical benefit for mariuana is illegal.
Yeah well that federal scheduling classification should be abolished. Schedule 1 is "a potentially high risk for addiction, narcotic, with no accepted medical use.
Literally all 3 parts of that statement are wrong. Anyone imprisoned for Marijuana even in thr past, should get compensated for any time served. Absolutely absurd and asinine that anyone was ever arrested for smoking a harmless, naturally growing, plant.
Quote from: Scott5114 on January 11, 2023, 09:41:37 PM
A good number of medical developments are already funded through government grants (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK50972/). My reading of that article makes it seem to me like the current model is that government-funded researchers do the initial science work and then the capitalists do feasibility research afterward that leads it to becoming a product.
Pretty much true. There is also much more open information produced by general-purpose research than companies would release. "Qualified workforce" (aka students who work for pennies to gain certain professional standing) is another outcome of such government-sponsored work.
Fine lines between fundamental science, R&D, pre-production qualification - and probably a few more stages.
There are reasons, IMHO, to keep at least part of the process out of dark hole of proprietary-secret-confidential.
I don't think government-run vetting and production would be great. If nothing else, clinical trials are about someone proving to the government that the drug work, and production oversight is again proving things to government inspectors. Having two offices of government work against each other - and probably ultimately reporting to the same appointed official...
They are here to help, run away as fast as you can!
Quote from: kalvado on January 11, 2023, 10:31:30 PM
I don't think government-run vetting and production would be great. If nothing else, clinical trials are about someone proving to the government that the drug work, and production oversight is again proving things to government inspectors. Having two offices of government work against each other - and probably ultimately reporting to the same appointed official... They are here to help, run away as fast as you can!
Do you feel the same way about the Department of Transportation?
Quote from: J N Winkler on January 11, 2023, 09:55:25 PM
And yes, it is true making health care more accessible to a previously underserved population with easily controllable problems (as community rating tried to do for people previously considered all but uninsurable, like Type I diabetics) is one way to boost life expectancy. I see this as a feature rather than a bug of socialized health care systems.
Sometimes I am flirting with idea of tiered healthcare, where different levels of care are socialized or privatized.
Any child with tonsilitis or pneumonia should get antibiotics without a problem. Appendicitis, broken limb are also cheap enough to treat socially.
$10000/day stage 4 cancer treatment may be reserved to the Rockefeller family. They would definitely pay a lot...
But where to draw lines in between? Just as a harsh thought - maybe socialize <$5k/year-of-life treatments, for example? How big %% would that be in terms of overall spending, I wonder?
Quote from: Scott5114 on January 11, 2023, 10:34:59 PM
Quote from: kalvado on January 11, 2023, 10:31:30 PM
I don't think government-run vetting and production would be great. If nothing else, clinical trials are about someone proving to the government that the drug work, and production oversight is again proving things to government inspectors. Having two offices of government work against each other - and probably ultimately reporting to the same appointed official... They are here to help, run away as fast as you can!
Do you feel the same way about the Department of Transportation?
Can you be more specific? I certainly have less than great (and actually less than unfavorable) opinions about the engineering work of certain DOTs. But who is going to hold them responsible until there is a headline-worthy scandal? Even then, it appears to be a search for the guilty and punishing the innocent...
More competitive operation could be more efficient (or even more mismanaged, but that is a different story)
Quote from: 1 on January 09, 2023, 05:14:29 PM
Quote from: ethanhopkin14 on January 09, 2023, 05:05:58 PM
Also any rewards program from a retailer is a scam.
Absolutely not. For IHOP in particular, I think they're actually losing money on me. Other restaurants, like UNO, Outback, and Friendly's, are 1 in 16, 1 in 14, and 1 in 15 back, respectively.
I agree, but many rewards programs require such a high degree of loyalty that they're only worthwhile to regular customers. Many of our local pizza chains have some sort of rewards program (like fake "bucks" or a magnet pizza slice) for each transaction that can be redeemed for a pizza. But the rewards are often time sensitive, and in the case of Guida Bucks, also location sensitive. And if you have to go there 6-8 times or more which could take months, keep track of them yourself,
and actually remember to use them when you have enough,
if they still have the program going by then, is it really even worth your time and energy? More often than not I would say no.
Meanwhile, a few months ago Dunkin' overhauled their app/rewards program and watered it down considerably. To explain a bit... It used to be 200 points for a free drink of any size, 10 points per dollar spent, and 100 bonus points for ordering ahead on Mondays most weeks. For me that worked out to about one in every three drinks being free while paying for the other two drinks and the occasional breakfast.
Now, rewards aren't limited to just drinks. You can get anything on the menu, but it's a tiered points system, starting at 150 points for an expresso shot or 3-pc munchkins on up to 800 points for breakfast sandwiches and 900 points for signature drinks. The specialty drink I usually get is now worth 700 points, and it's more annoying to redeem because I have to wait longer to earn enough points, then choose the specific item and remember to apply it to my order (rather than just scanning a generic barcode at the point of sale). They've tried to compensate by offering "boosted status" for regular customers which makes every dollar spent worth 12 points instead of 10. Even so, it's a lot less valuable than it used to be. I've stuck with it because I'm a regular and probably would be even without the rewards, but it's not very appealing to anyone who only goes there once in a while.
The TL;DR version: Most rewards programs are fine if you use them regularly, know how it works, and remember to use them, but can seem like a scam if you don't use them often enough. Rewards programs that seem too good to be true usually prove to be so one way or another and are eventually changed or replaced.
Quote from: kalvado on January 11, 2023, 10:47:47 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on January 11, 2023, 10:34:59 PM
Quote from: kalvado on January 11, 2023, 10:31:30 PM
I don't think government-run vetting and production would be great. If nothing else, clinical trials are about someone proving to the government that the drug work, and production oversight is again proving things to government inspectors. Having two offices of government work against each other - and probably ultimately reporting to the same appointed official... They are here to help, run away as fast as you can!
Do you feel the same way about the Department of Transportation?
Can you be more specific? I certainly have less than great (and actually less than unfavorable) opinions about the engineering work of certain DOTs. But who is going to hold them responsible until there is a headline-worthy scandal? Even then, it appears to be a search for the guilty and punishing the innocent...
More competitive operation could be more efficient (or even more mismanaged, but that is a different story)
Engineering work of certain DOTs...and yet a lot is contracted out through competitive bidding...
Quote from: Rothman on January 12, 2023, 07:07:56 AM
Quote from: kalvado on January 11, 2023, 10:47:47 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on January 11, 2023, 10:34:59 PM
Quote from: kalvado on January 11, 2023, 10:31:30 PM
I don't think government-run vetting and production would be great. If nothing else, clinical trials are about someone proving to the government that the drug work, and production oversight is again proving things to government inspectors. Having two offices of government work against each other - and probably ultimately reporting to the same appointed official... They are here to help, run away as fast as you can!
Do you feel the same way about the Department of Transportation?
Can you be more specific? I certainly have less than great (and actually less than unfavorable) opinions about the engineering work of certain DOTs. But who is going to hold them responsible until there is a headline-worthy scandal? Even then, it appears to be a search for the guilty and punishing the innocent...
More competitive operation could be more efficient (or even more mismanaged, but that is a different story)
Engineering work of certain DOTs...and yet a lot is contracted out through competitive bidding...
Who specifies the layout, for example? Of course there is a public hearing, where two options of a poorly thought of roundabout and a very poorly thought of roundabout are presented.
Who is getting held responsible for a poor design? I thought we discussed it a few times, and the answer was "meh"
Quote from: kalvado on January 12, 2023, 07:13:20 AM
Quote from: Rothman on January 12, 2023, 07:07:56 AM
Quote from: kalvado on January 11, 2023, 10:47:47 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on January 11, 2023, 10:34:59 PM
Quote from: kalvado on January 11, 2023, 10:31:30 PM
I don't think government-run vetting and production would be great. If nothing else, clinical trials are about someone proving to the government that the drug work, and production oversight is again proving things to government inspectors. Having two offices of government work against each other - and probably ultimately reporting to the same appointed official... They are here to help, run away as fast as you can!
Do you feel the same way about the Department of Transportation?
Can you be more specific? I certainly have less than great (and actually less than unfavorable) opinions about the engineering work of certain DOTs. But who is going to hold them responsible until there is a headline-worthy scandal? Even then, it appears to be a search for the guilty and punishing the innocent...
More competitive operation could be more efficient (or even more mismanaged, but that is a different story)
Engineering work of certain DOTs...and yet a lot is contracted out through competitive bidding...
Who specifies the layout, for example? Of course there is a public hearing, where two options of a poorly thought of roundabout and a very poorly thought of roundabout are presented.
Who is getting held responsible for a poor design? I thought we discussed it a few times, and the answer was "meh"
Things you don't like aren't scams.
In that case, mushrooms are scams.
Quote from: jeffandnicole on January 12, 2023, 08:03:20 AM
Quote from: kalvado on January 12, 2023, 07:13:20 AM
Quote from: Rothman on January 12, 2023, 07:07:56 AM
Quote from: kalvado on January 11, 2023, 10:47:47 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on January 11, 2023, 10:34:59 PM
Quote from: kalvado on January 11, 2023, 10:31:30 PM
I don't think government-run vetting and production would be great. If nothing else, clinical trials are about someone proving to the government that the drug work, and production oversight is again proving things to government inspectors. Having two offices of government work against each other - and probably ultimately reporting to the same appointed official... They are here to help, run away as fast as you can!
Do you feel the same way about the Department of Transportation?
Can you be more specific? I certainly have less than great (and actually less than unfavorable) opinions about the engineering work of certain DOTs. But who is going to hold them responsible until there is a headline-worthy scandal? Even then, it appears to be a search for the guilty and punishing the innocent...
More competitive operation could be more efficient (or even more mismanaged, but that is a different story)
Engineering work of certain DOTs...and yet a lot is contracted out through competitive bidding...
Who specifies the layout, for example? Of course there is a public hearing, where two options of a poorly thought of roundabout and a very poorly thought of roundabout are presented.
Who is getting held responsible for a poor design? I thought we discussed it a few times, and the answer was "meh"
Things you don't like aren't scams.
In that case, mushrooms are scams.
I didn't say "scam".
But if you will, the lack of accountability in any government office is an open door for scams. On one hand, it makes sense to have at least some degree of government immunity. The other side of the coin, though...
Not that promoting away incompetent people is unique for the government as well....
UPD: "too big to fail" may be on the same page.
Quote from: kalvado on January 12, 2023, 08:09:45 AM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on January 12, 2023, 08:03:20 AM
Quote from: kalvado on January 12, 2023, 07:13:20 AM
Quote from: Rothman on January 12, 2023, 07:07:56 AM
Quote from: kalvado on January 11, 2023, 10:47:47 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on January 11, 2023, 10:34:59 PM
Quote from: kalvado on January 11, 2023, 10:31:30 PM
I don't think government-run vetting and production would be great. If nothing else, clinical trials are about someone proving to the government that the drug work, and production oversight is again proving things to government inspectors. Having two offices of government work against each other - and probably ultimately reporting to the same appointed official... They are here to help, run away as fast as you can!
Do you feel the same way about the Department of Transportation?
Can you be more specific? I certainly have less than great (and actually less than unfavorable) opinions about the engineering work of certain DOTs. But who is going to hold them responsible until there is a headline-worthy scandal? Even then, it appears to be a search for the guilty and punishing the innocent...
More competitive operation could be more efficient (or even more mismanaged, but that is a different story)
Engineering work of certain DOTs...and yet a lot is contracted out through competitive bidding...
Who specifies the layout, for example? Of course there is a public hearing, where two options of a poorly thought of roundabout and a very poorly thought of roundabout are presented.
Who is getting held responsible for a poor design? I thought we discussed it a few times, and the answer was "meh"
Things you don't like aren't scams.
In that case, mushrooms are scams.
I didn't say "scam".
But if you will, the lack of accountability in any government office is an open door for scams. On one hand, it makes sense to have at least some degree of government immunity. The other side of the coin, though...
Not that promoting away incompetent people is unique for the government as well....
UPD: "too big to fail" may be on the same page.
But where's the lack of accountability? Road design goes thru numerous approvals. If it meets federal and state guidelines, then what's wrong with it other than "I don't like roundabouts"?
Quote from: jeffandnicole on January 12, 2023, 08:27:46 AM
Quote from: kalvado on January 12, 2023, 08:09:45 AM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on January 12, 2023, 08:03:20 AM
Quote from: kalvado on January 12, 2023, 07:13:20 AM
Quote from: Rothman on January 12, 2023, 07:07:56 AM
Quote from: kalvado on January 11, 2023, 10:47:47 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on January 11, 2023, 10:34:59 PM
Quote from: kalvado on January 11, 2023, 10:31:30 PM
I don't think government-run vetting and production would be great. If nothing else, clinical trials are about someone proving to the government that the drug work, and production oversight is again proving things to government inspectors. Having two offices of government work against each other - and probably ultimately reporting to the same appointed official... They are here to help, run away as fast as you can!
Do you feel the same way about the Department of Transportation?
Can you be more specific? I certainly have less than great (and actually less than unfavorable) opinions about the engineering work of certain DOTs. But who is going to hold them responsible until there is a headline-worthy scandal? Even then, it appears to be a search for the guilty and punishing the innocent...
More competitive operation could be more efficient (or even more mismanaged, but that is a different story)
Engineering work of certain DOTs...and yet a lot is contracted out through competitive bidding...
Who specifies the layout, for example? Of course there is a public hearing, where two options of a poorly thought of roundabout and a very poorly thought of roundabout are presented.
Who is getting held responsible for a poor design? I thought we discussed it a few times, and the answer was "meh"
Things you don't like aren't scams.
In that case, mushrooms are scams.
I didn't say "scam".
But if you will, the lack of accountability in any government office is an open door for scams. On one hand, it makes sense to have at least some degree of government immunity. The other side of the coin, though...
Not that promoting away incompetent people is unique for the government as well....
UPD: "too big to fail" may be on the same page.
But where's the lack of accountability? Road design goes thru numerous approvals. If it meets federal and state guidelines, then what's wrong with it other than "I don't like roundabouts"?
Well, what happens when an approved and signed-off design ends up a high accident location?
When design not performing to the expectations becomes a bottleneck for decades?
I may dislike roundabouts (although that's not true - I dislike the way they are abused by designers), but I am thinking specifically non-roundabout locations.
Quote from: Rothman on January 12, 2023, 07:07:56 AM
Quote from: kalvado on January 11, 2023, 10:47:47 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on January 11, 2023, 10:34:59 PM
Quote from: kalvado on January 11, 2023, 10:31:30 PM
I don't think government-run vetting and production would be great. If nothing else, clinical trials are about someone proving to the government that the drug work, and production oversight is again proving things to government inspectors. Having two offices of government work against each other - and probably ultimately reporting to the same appointed official... They are here to help, run away as fast as you can!
Do you feel the same way about the Department of Transportation?
Can you be more specific? I certainly have less than great (and actually less than unfavorable) opinions about the engineering work of certain DOTs. But who is going to hold them responsible until there is a headline-worthy scandal? Even then, it appears to be a search for the guilty and punishing the innocent...
More competitive operation could be more efficient (or even more mismanaged, but that is a different story)
Engineering work of certain DOTs...and yet a lot is contracted out through competitive bidding...
Construction work is based in price. Engineering is supposed to be based on qualifications and not price, if the governmental agency is ethical.
Quote from: kkt on January 11, 2023, 08:41:36 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on January 11, 2023, 02:14:04 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on January 11, 2023, 12:03:33 PMI know of no non-intoxicating recreational uses for weed. You don't smoke it because you like the aroma. You smoke it to get high.
Nonsense - in fact, if you use medical cannabis as prescribed, you won't get high.
There's no such thing as using medical marijuana as prescribed. It's illegal for doctors to prescribe it in the United States. Some doctors may recommend it, but that recommendation is not a prescription. As a schedule 1 substance, even doing medical research that might lead to confirming medical benefit for mariuana is illegal.
If you must split that hair, you must, but I'd be happy to share the medical advice my late father-in-law received on using cannabis to treat the pain, lack of appetite, etc. associated with his cancer, and I can assure you that he did not spend his last ~6 months on Mars.
Quote from: Scott5114 on January 11, 2023, 06:53:30 PM
I don't think there should be a right to make a profit in any given field. In fact, I'd say something like medicine is critical enough to the well-being of society that making a profit in medicine should be illegal.
Quote from: Scott5114 on January 11, 2023, 07:29:38 PM
Quote from: kalvado on January 11, 2023, 07:24:45 PM
What do you think about unions?
As I said not too long ago when the subject came up, "At my last job, I'd have gladly paid $20 a month to tell my boss to go fuck herself."
With the recent nurses' strike making headlines, my mom brought it up in conversation the other day. She worked in nursing all her pre-retirement life, since 1973. She told me that, historically, nursing has remained non-unionized because (1) it was seen as a profession rather than a trade, and because (2) of the fear of what would happen if all nurses went on strike.
On that second point, what would happen to the patients' health if there were no nurses to care for them? Or, in other words, it was considered to be in the best interest of the well-being of society that nurses
not be able to unionize.
Quote from: kphoger on January 12, 2023, 11:23:51 AMit was considered to be in the best interest of the well-being of society that nurses not be able to unionize.
I don't think there's any such thing as a profession that shouldn't be allowed to unionize. And if hospitals don't want nurses to go on strike, then they shouldn't try to, you know, screw over nurses on pay/benefits/etc.
Quote from: abefroman329 on January 12, 2023, 11:28:28 AM
Quote from: kphoger on January 12, 2023, 11:23:51 AM
it was considered to be in the best interest of the well-being of society that nurses not be able to unionize.
I don't think there's any such thing as a profession that shouldn't be allowed to unionize. And if hospitals don't want nurses to go on strike, then they shouldn't try to, you know, screw over nurses on pay/benefits/etc.
I don't personally have a strong opinion about unions. In general, I think they were probably necessary decades ago, but some industry unions nowadays don't seem to be very effective. Anyway, I wasn't saying nurses should or should not be able to unionize.
Quote from: kphoger on January 12, 2023, 11:53:43 AMI think they were probably necessary decades ago
I don't think mine owners are any less likely to knowingly murder their employees now than they would have been 100-150 years ago.
Quote from: Scott5114 on January 11, 2023, 04:26:20 PM
Quote from: J N Winkler on January 11, 2023, 01:52:24 PM
Quote from: kphoger on January 11, 2023, 01:26:58 PMHealth insurance is a scam.
In the US, where medicine is regarded as a field for free enterprise, there are few checks on provider lobbies, and the health care system has spawned its own ecosystems for medical billing--yes, absolutely.
Health insurance being tied to employment is especially a scam. Suspending employer-paid health insurance is one of the go-to methods for an employer to attempt to break a strike. Employment-based health insurance also helps to disincentivize entrepreneurship (reducing competition in the workplace, natch) and forces some people to work when they'd otherwise not–I had plenty of coworkers at the casino who were well over the normal retirement age who were working because they needed the health coverage. And then there's the whole chicken-and-egg problem of what to do with those whose medical needs are so great they temporarily or permanently cannot work because of them.
That was all fallout from homefront rules during World War II. FDR administration wage and price controls during the War prevented employers from rewarding good, loyal employees with cash wage raises so they started offering non-cash things ('fringe benefits') such as covering their major medical insurance plans, instead.
Mike
Quote from: mgk920 on January 12, 2023, 12:50:03 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on January 11, 2023, 04:26:20 PM
Quote from: J N Winkler on January 11, 2023, 01:52:24 PM
Quote from: kphoger on January 11, 2023, 01:26:58 PMHealth insurance is a scam.
In the US, where medicine is regarded as a field for free enterprise, there are few checks on provider lobbies, and the health care system has spawned its own ecosystems for medical billing--yes, absolutely.
Health insurance being tied to employment is especially a scam. Suspending employer-paid health insurance is one of the go-to methods for an employer to attempt to break a strike. Employment-based health insurance also helps to disincentivize entrepreneurship (reducing competition in the workplace, natch) and forces some people to work when they'd otherwise not–I had plenty of coworkers at the casino who were well over the normal retirement age who were working because they needed the health coverage. And then there's the whole chicken-and-egg problem of what to do with those whose medical needs are so great they temporarily or permanently cannot work because of them.
That was all fallout from homefront rules during World War II. FDR administration wage and price controls during the War prevented employers from rewarding good, loyal employees with cash wage raises so they started offering non-cash things ('fringe benefits') such as covering their major medical insurance plans, instead.
Mike
Right, but that was intended as a stopgap measure, and it should have been replaced with some sort of government-sponsored health care (as was the case in, you know, every other first-world country), but it never was. The NHS was founded in 1948; we didn't even get Medicare until almost twenty years later.
Quote from: abefroman329 on January 12, 2023, 12:57:37 PM
Quote from: mgk920 on January 12, 2023, 12:50:03 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on January 11, 2023, 04:26:20 PM
Quote from: J N Winkler on January 11, 2023, 01:52:24 PM
Quote from: kphoger on January 11, 2023, 01:26:58 PMHealth insurance is a scam.
In the US, where medicine is regarded as a field for free enterprise, there are few checks on provider lobbies, and the health care system has spawned its own ecosystems for medical billing--yes, absolutely.
Health insurance being tied to employment is especially a scam. Suspending employer-paid health insurance is one of the go-to methods for an employer to attempt to break a strike. Employment-based health insurance also helps to disincentivize entrepreneurship (reducing competition in the workplace, natch) and forces some people to work when they'd otherwise not–I had plenty of coworkers at the casino who were well over the normal retirement age who were working because they needed the health coverage. And then there's the whole chicken-and-egg problem of what to do with those whose medical needs are so great they temporarily or permanently cannot work because of them.
That was all fallout from homefront rules during World War II. FDR administration wage and price controls during the War prevented employers from rewarding good, loyal employees with cash wage raises so they started offering non-cash things ('fringe benefits') such as covering their major medical insurance plans, instead.
Mike
Right, but that was intended as a stopgap measure, and it should have been replaced with some sort of government-sponsored health care (as was the case in, you know, every other first-world country), but it never was. The NHS was founded in 1948; we didn't even get Medicare until almost twenty years later.
Stopgap.... NYC still has 16000 rent-controlled apartments, which were a stopgap measure for soldiers returning home after WW2....
Quote from: kalvado on January 12, 2023, 08:39:54 AM
Well, what happens when an approved and signed-off design ends up a high accident location?
When design not performing to the expectations becomes a bottleneck for decades?
I may dislike roundabouts (although that's not true - I dislike the way they are abused by designers), but I am thinking specifically non-roundabout locations.
Obviously it depends on why an intersection has become a high accident location or becomes a bottleneck. If the intersection was designed for a certain level of traffic and suddenly a high-volume warehouse is built nearby, or an obstruction that didn't previously exists now does, that's not the fault of the engineers. Maybe enough people got together to persuade the state to knock down an interstate highway, and suddenly a minor roadway becomes a heavily traveled alternative.
Since normal traffic engineering looks about 25 years into the future, if designed for such time and nothing abnormal happens, it'll be about 2-3 decades anyway when the intersection may be reviewed for upgrading. Why would it be 'decades' (which you appeared to make out as a longer time period) if someone doesn't work out?
Quote from: kphoger on January 12, 2023, 11:23:51 AM
Quote from: Scott5114 on January 11, 2023, 06:53:30 PM
I don't think there should be a right to make a profit in any given field. In fact, I'd say something like medicine is critical enough to the well-being of society that making a profit in medicine should be illegal.
Quote from: Scott5114 on January 11, 2023, 07:29:38 PM
Quote from: kalvado on January 11, 2023, 07:24:45 PM
What do you think about unions?
As I said not too long ago when the subject came up, "At my last job, I'd have gladly paid $20 a month to tell my boss to go fuck herself."
With the recent nurses' strike making headlines, my mom brought it up in conversation the other day. She worked in nursing all her pre-retirement life, since 1973. She told me that, historically, nursing has remained non-unionized because (1) it was seen as a profession rather than a trade, and because (2) of the fear of what would happen if all nurses went on strike.
On that second point, what would happen to the patients' health if there were no nurses to care for them? Or, in other words, it was considered to be in the best interest of the well-being of society that nurses not be able to unionize.
Members of a union don't have to strike. And in some cases, it's illegal to strike. NJ doesn't permit teachers and public workers to strike, for example. Of course, they could do a sick-out. And you don't have to be in a union to have a sick-out.
Quote from: abefroman329 on January 12, 2023, 11:28:28 AM
Quote from: kphoger on January 12, 2023, 11:23:51 AMit was considered to be in the best interest of the well-being of society that nurses not be able to unionize.
I don't think there's any such thing as a profession that shouldn't be allowed to unionize. And if hospitals don't want nurses to go on strike, then they shouldn't try to, you know, screw over nurses on pay/benefits/etc.
What I hear is that east coast nurses are treated much worse than their west coast colleagues. Now that nurses don't want to work in those conditions, fewer remaining ones are assigned more work. What can go wrong?...
But there are different situations. In the same thread mentioned above someone characterized certain union as "not going to defend indefencible things"
My pet peeve with NY handling on it....
A guy, not on duty, got into an accident.
He was drunk, run a red light, hit another car and drove away. Person in a car he hit had to seek some medical help.
Union insisted on giving the guy a second chance. He had to pay dearly, though, reimbursing $50 medical expenses to the person who was hurt.
Again - an off-duty police officer in DUI hit-and-run with injury got a second chance and continued as police officer after paying $50 fine
He did it again in a few months, though - and I believe was transferred to a more rural department.... That's the type of a strong union we need....
Quote from: jeffandnicole on January 12, 2023, 01:24:04 PM
Quote from: kalvado on January 12, 2023, 08:39:54 AM
Well, what happens when an approved and signed-off design ends up a high accident location?
When design not performing to the expectations becomes a bottleneck for decades?
I may dislike roundabouts (although that's not true - I dislike the way they are abused by designers), but I am thinking specifically non-roundabout locations.
Obviously it depends on why an intersection has become a high accident location or becomes a bottleneck. If the intersection was designed for a certain level of traffic and suddenly a high-volume warehouse is built nearby, or an obstruction that didn't previously exists now does, that's not the fault of the engineers. Maybe enough people got together to persuade the state to knock down an interstate highway, and suddenly a minor roadway becomes a heavily traveled alternative.
Since normal traffic engineering looks about 25 years into the future, if designed for such time and nothing abnormal happens, it'll be about 2-3 decades anyway when the intersection may be reviewed for upgrading. Why would it be 'decades' (which you appeared to make out as a longer time period) if someone doesn't work out?
One example I have in mond is a ramp from the interstate to interstate which was designed to handle 2 lanes at 55 MPH. After accidents started to pile up, same ramp signed down to 30 MPH single lane cannot handle traffic. Lane signage wasn't really updated as well. I live in the area for about 20 years, and nothing changed.
In any society, those without economic power deserve advocacy on their behalf. Unions can be a very effective vehicle for this, but they can also be extremely dysfunctional, as is also true of corporations and the government.
Most of us--I would say almost all of us who are American and below the age of 50--have not lived in a time when private-sector unions in the US were not in decline. My grandmother, who lived and worked when they were at the apogee of their influence, had nuanced views on them. She saw them as beneficial for her uncles and cousins who mined coal in southwestern Pennsylvania (her mother's oldest brother served as head of his UMWA local), but lived through disruption in the early 1970's when Southwestern Bell (her employer) had nonunionized clerical employees cover for union employees during a strike, and had trouble getting a settlement out of the International Typographical Union (my grandfather's union) when he died of cancer at age 59. (The ITU folded almost a decade later.)
Quote from: webny99 on January 12, 2023, 12:10:46 AM
The TL;DR version: Most rewards programs are fine if you use them regularly, know how it works, and remember to use them, but can seem like a scam if you don't use them often enough. Rewards programs that seem too good to be true usually prove to be so one way or another and are eventually changed or replaced.
I wouldn't go as far as to call them scams, but..(1) company sets the terms (2) artificially sets the "value" of the points (3) changes the rules frequently (4) good luck transferring any of them reliably. And that goes for airlines, hotels, rental cars, food services, or any other rewards program.
The point is that you're paying for the system in some small way to offset the freebies you (or someone else) may get. Which isn't any different if a business is giving away a product/service due to policy or resolve an issue, but a rewards system involves some cost of maintenance and infrastructure, but that's keeping up with everyone else.
For a limited-use member of a rewards program, it's not terribly useful, especially if the points expire. I just don't bother keeping up every possible rewards program if I only use them once every 5-6 years. One problem that annoyed me was Panera's program, which I'd use about once a month; I linked it to my old phone number years ago and didn't change it to my new number because I felt I didn't want to be bothered with spam calls...someone else got the number and proceeded to dispose of my points. Ooops, but that's probably only $10 lost. But like social media, your info also keeps it going.
Quote from: kalvado on January 12, 2023, 01:17:41 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on January 12, 2023, 12:57:37 PM
Quote from: mgk920 on January 12, 2023, 12:50:03 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on January 11, 2023, 04:26:20 PM
Quote from: J N Winkler on January 11, 2023, 01:52:24 PM
Quote from: kphoger on January 11, 2023, 01:26:58 PMHealth insurance is a scam.
In the US, where medicine is regarded as a field for free enterprise, there are few checks on provider lobbies, and the health care system has spawned its own ecosystems for medical billing--yes, absolutely.
Health insurance being tied to employment is especially a scam. Suspending employer-paid health insurance is one of the go-to methods for an employer to attempt to break a strike. Employment-based health insurance also helps to disincentivize entrepreneurship (reducing competition in the workplace, natch) and forces some people to work when they'd otherwise not–I had plenty of coworkers at the casino who were well over the normal retirement age who were working because they needed the health coverage. And then there's the whole chicken-and-egg problem of what to do with those whose medical needs are so great they temporarily or permanently cannot work because of them.
That was all fallout from homefront rules during World War II. FDR administration wage and price controls during the War prevented employers from rewarding good, loyal employees with cash wage raises so they started offering non-cash things ('fringe benefits') such as covering their major medical insurance plans, instead.
Mike
Right, but that was intended as a stopgap measure, and it should have been replaced with some sort of government-sponsored health care (as was the case in, you know, every other first-world country), but it never was. The NHS was founded in 1948; we didn't even get Medicare until almost twenty years later.
Stopgap.... NYC still has 16000 rent-controlled apartments, which were a stopgap measure for soldiers returning home after WW2....
It would be really helpful if you explained why you're bringing up a completely unrelated topic.
Quote from: kalvado on January 12, 2023, 01:25:13 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on January 12, 2023, 11:28:28 AM
Quote from: kphoger on January 12, 2023, 11:23:51 AMit was considered to be in the best interest of the well-being of society that nurses not be able to unionize.
I don't think there's any such thing as a profession that shouldn't be allowed to unionize. And if hospitals don't want nurses to go on strike, then they shouldn't try to, you know, screw over nurses on pay/benefits/etc.
What I hear is that east coast nurses are treated much worse than their west coast colleagues. Now that nurses don't want to work in those conditions, fewer remaining ones are assigned more work. What can go wrong?...
But there are different situations. In the same thread mentioned above someone characterized certain union as "not going to defend indefencible things"
My pet peeve with NY handling on it....
A guy, not on duty, got into an accident.
He was drunk, run a red light, hit another car and drove away. Person in a car he hit had to seek some medical help.
Union insisted on giving the guy a second chance. He had to pay dearly, though, reimbursing $50 medical expenses to the person who was hurt.
Again - an off-duty police officer in DUI hit-and-run with injury got a second chance and continued as police officer after paying $50 fine
He did it again in a few months, though - and I believe was transferred to a more rural department.... That's the type of a strong union we need....
Oh, believe me, I have nothing kind to say about the FOP. A few blocks from where I live, a cop driving a vehicle with numerous illegal modifications ran a stop sign and killed an eight-year-old boy on a bicycle, and up went the ol' Blue Wall of Silence. But advocating for the abolition of unions for cops turns into advocating for the abolition of unions for all public employees if you're not careful about it.
Quote from: abefroman329 on January 12, 2023, 01:42:33 PM
Quote from: kalvado on January 12, 2023, 01:17:41 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on January 12, 2023, 12:57:37 PM
Quote from: mgk920 on January 12, 2023, 12:50:03 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on January 11, 2023, 04:26:20 PM
Quote from: J N Winkler on January 11, 2023, 01:52:24 PM
Quote from: kphoger on January 11, 2023, 01:26:58 PMHealth insurance is a scam.
In the US, where medicine is regarded as a field for free enterprise, there are few checks on provider lobbies, and the health care system has spawned its own ecosystems for medical billing--yes, absolutely.
Health insurance being tied to employment is especially a scam. Suspending employer-paid health insurance is one of the go-to methods for an employer to attempt to break a strike. Employment-based health insurance also helps to disincentivize entrepreneurship (reducing competition in the workplace, natch) and forces some people to work when they'd otherwise not–I had plenty of coworkers at the casino who were well over the normal retirement age who were working because they needed the health coverage. And then there's the whole chicken-and-egg problem of what to do with those whose medical needs are so great they temporarily or permanently cannot work because of them.
That was all fallout from homefront rules during World War II. FDR administration wage and price controls during the War prevented employers from rewarding good, loyal employees with cash wage raises so they started offering non-cash things ('fringe benefits') such as covering their major medical insurance plans, instead.
Mike
Right, but that was intended as a stopgap measure, and it should have been replaced with some sort of government-sponsored health care (as was the case in, you know, every other first-world country), but it never was. The NHS was founded in 1948; we didn't even get Medicare until almost twenty years later.
Stopgap.... NYC still has 16000 rent-controlled apartments, which were a stopgap measure for soldiers returning home after WW2....
It would be really helpful if you explained why you're bringing up a completely unrelated topic.
Just analogous "stop-gap" solution in what is supposed to be a somewhat-free market. People who were benefiting from stopgap are mostly dead, situation changed many times - but stopgap will outlive most of us.
Quote from: kalvado on January 12, 2023, 01:45:43 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on January 12, 2023, 01:42:33 PM
Quote from: kalvado on January 12, 2023, 01:17:41 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on January 12, 2023, 12:57:37 PM
Quote from: mgk920 on January 12, 2023, 12:50:03 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on January 11, 2023, 04:26:20 PM
Quote from: J N Winkler on January 11, 2023, 01:52:24 PM
Quote from: kphoger on January 11, 2023, 01:26:58 PMHealth insurance is a scam.
In the US, where medicine is regarded as a field for free enterprise, there are few checks on provider lobbies, and the health care system has spawned its own ecosystems for medical billing--yes, absolutely.
Health insurance being tied to employment is especially a scam. Suspending employer-paid health insurance is one of the go-to methods for an employer to attempt to break a strike. Employment-based health insurance also helps to disincentivize entrepreneurship (reducing competition in the workplace, natch) and forces some people to work when they'd otherwise not–I had plenty of coworkers at the casino who were well over the normal retirement age who were working because they needed the health coverage. And then there's the whole chicken-and-egg problem of what to do with those whose medical needs are so great they temporarily or permanently cannot work because of them.
That was all fallout from homefront rules during World War II. FDR administration wage and price controls during the War prevented employers from rewarding good, loyal employees with cash wage raises so they started offering non-cash things ('fringe benefits') such as covering their major medical insurance plans, instead.
Mike
Right, but that was intended as a stopgap measure, and it should have been replaced with some sort of government-sponsored health care (as was the case in, you know, every other first-world country), but it never was. The NHS was founded in 1948; we didn't even get Medicare until almost twenty years later.
Stopgap.... NYC still has 16000 rent-controlled apartments, which were a stopgap measure for soldiers returning home after WW2....
It would be really helpful if you explained why you're bringing up a completely unrelated topic.
Just analogous "stop-gap" solution in what is supposed to be a somewhat-free market. People who were benefiting from stopgap are mostly dead, situation changed many times - but stopgap will outlive most of us.
OK, well, I'd be fine with eliminating rent-control laws. Clearly they've failed, since affordable housing is still lacking in NYC.
And if you want to mention other stop-gap measures, I'll let you know if I agree that they should be eliminated as well. I can't think of any right now.
Quote from: abefroman329 on January 12, 2023, 01:45:35 PM
Quote from: kalvado on January 12, 2023, 01:25:13 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on January 12, 2023, 11:28:28 AM
Quote from: kphoger on January 12, 2023, 11:23:51 AMit was considered to be in the best interest of the well-being of society that nurses not be able to unionize.
I don't think there's any such thing as a profession that shouldn't be allowed to unionize. And if hospitals don't want nurses to go on strike, then they shouldn't try to, you know, screw over nurses on pay/benefits/etc.
What I hear is that east coast nurses are treated much worse than their west coast colleagues. Now that nurses don't want to work in those conditions, fewer remaining ones are assigned more work. What can go wrong?...
But there are different situations. In the same thread mentioned above someone characterized certain union as "not going to defend indefencible things"
My pet peeve with NY handling on it....
A guy, not on duty, got into an accident.
He was drunk, run a red light, hit another car and drove away. Person in a car he hit had to seek some medical help.
Union insisted on giving the guy a second chance. He had to pay dearly, though, reimbursing $50 medical expenses to the person who was hurt.
Again - an off-duty police officer in DUI hit-and-run with injury got a second chance and continued as police officer after paying $50 fine
He did it again in a few months, though - and I believe was transferred to a more rural department.... That's the type of a strong union we need....
Oh, believe me, I have nothing kind to say about the FOP. A few blocks from where I live, a cop driving a vehicle with numerous illegal modifications ran a stop sign and killed an eight-year-old boy on a bicycle, and up went the ol' Blue Wall of Silence. But advocating for the abolition of unions for cops turns into advocating for the abolition of unions for all public employees if you're not careful about it.
I said it before and I say it again: very strong teacher's union is one of major - if not the biggest - economic problems of NYS.
And as public employers are, effectively employed by the public, including yours truly, those unions are my direct opponents. Unions are a great idea when they have some ethical do and do nots. Pushing things to the limit... well, I may have a right to do the same in response.
Quote from: abefroman329 on January 12, 2023, 01:52:18 PM
OK, well, I'd be fine with eliminating rent-control laws. Clearly they've failed, since affordable housing is still lacking in NYC.
And if you want to mention other stop-gap measures, I'll let you know if I agree that they should be eliminated as well. I can't think of any right now.
All I am saying is that there is nothing more permanent than a temporary stopgap.
And rent control in NYC is not the same as rent stabilization. But that is a totally different story.
Quote from: kalvado on January 12, 2023, 01:52:26 PMI said it before and I say it again: very strong teacher's union is one of major - if not the biggest - economic problems of NYS.
The existence of a teachers' union is fine with me. Teaching isn't seen as a profession in jurisdictions where teachers don't have unions (see, e.g. Florida declaring that any military veteran can teach with no additional credentials).
Quote from: kalvado on January 12, 2023, 01:52:26 PMUnions are a great idea when they have some ethical do and do nots.
Unless they're actively working to ensure their employees can, quite literally, get away with murder, as police unions do, then I'm not too worried about ethics. Especially when employers have shown themselves to be completely unethical, and the response from the public is "well, just go work somewhere else if you don't like it!"
Quote from: abefroman329 on January 12, 2023, 01:58:42 PM
Quote from: kalvado on January 12, 2023, 01:52:26 PMI said it before and I say it again: very strong teacher's union is one of major - if not the biggest - economic problems of NYS.
The existence of a teachers' union is fine with me. Teaching isn't seen as a profession in jurisdictions where teachers don't have unions (see, e.g. Florida declaring that any military veteran can teach with no additional credentials).
Quote from: kalvado on January 12, 2023, 01:52:26 PMUnions are a great idea when they have some ethical do and do nots.
Unless they're actively working to ensure their employees can, quite literally, get away with murder, as police unions do, then I'm not too worried about ethics. Especially when employers have shown themselves to be completely unethical, and the response from the public is "well, just go work somewhere else if you don't like it!"
Teachers certainly should be able to unionize. But the result is that NY is a distant top 1 in school costs in US, and "schools are underfunded!" is heard all the time.
However, if you think about school cost as a credit society gives to a person which is repayed via taxes... You think $50k college debt is a significant handicap? NY 12 years of school cost over $250k per student today...
Quote from: abefroman329 on January 11, 2023, 02:14:04 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on January 11, 2023, 12:03:33 PMI know of no non-intoxicating recreational uses for weed. You don't smoke it because you like the aroma. You smoke it to get high.
Nonsense - in fact, if you use medical cannabis as prescribed, you won't get high.
You, and one other poster who responded, missed the word in bold in my quote above.
Recreational. That, by definition, excludes any medical uses.
Quote from: abefroman329 on January 12, 2023, 01:58:42 PM
The existence of a teachers' union is fine with me. Teaching isn't seen as a profession in jurisdictions where teachers don't have unions
Weren't unions originally 'trade unions'–that is, something for trades rather than something for professions?
One problem with unions, no matter if they represent the lowest grunts or highest level professionals, is that they have to continue to justify their existence. This often means that once some goals have been achieved in contracts, they have to come up with new goals and demands. Because else, why will people continue to support the union?
The same thing happens with advocacy organizations. They have to keep changing their focus and goals, or else they will go out of existence and their leaders will be jobless. Take for example the March of Dimes. This is a very worthwhile organization, but their focus has changed over the years. They started as a fund to combat polio. Then moved on to birth defects and infant mortality. From there it was a short step to premature births. Now their rather generic goal is to improve the health of mothers and babies.
Quote from: kalvado on January 11, 2023, 09:16:00 PM
Quote from: thspfc on January 11, 2023, 09:00:30 PM
Quote from: kalvado on January 11, 2023, 08:49:03 PM
Quote from: thspfc on January 11, 2023, 08:35:31 PM
Quote from: MultiMillionMiler on January 11, 2023, 07:44:50 PM
A fast food worker in NYC can be extremely stressed out all day on the job having to flip from one customer to another extremely fast without a break, whereas a computer programmer can finish their project or whatever early and just relax in the cushy office the rest of the time.
To get his job, the computer programmer needed 4+ years of college, which he probably paid tens of thousands for. The fast food worker needed a week of training.
If the computer programmer quits his job, the pool of possible replacements is exponentially smaller than the pool of possible replacements if the fast food worker quits his job.
If the computer programmer stops working, the entire project stops for days, weeks, or perhaps permanently depending on how valuable he was to the team. To replace him, they have to hire from a much smaller pool and train that hire for much longer than in the fast food situation. If the fast food worker stops working, orders might take an extra minute or two until they hire someone else from a large pool and train him in a few days.
If the fast food worker, who needed no prior education and is fully trained within a week, is paid more than the computer programmer who needed to spend thousands on 4+ years of college, given the two options, is anyone going to choose to be a computer programmer? Nope. What happens then? With no computer programmers, we don't technologically advance as a society.
(I know we have a lot of users on here who want to go back to more basic times, but quality-of-life indexes disagree.)
The point is, supply and demand defeats feelings every time. Does the fast food worker have a harder job? Depending on how you look at it, maybe. (In my opinion, absolutely not - the average person would do far better working fast food than they would programming computers) But even if he does, the supply is higher and the demand is lower. That means less pay.
There are also a lot of jobs that require a college degree that simply don't pay enough. In my opinion, this an area where our education system falls way short. Kids are told that going to college is a good option, which in general I agree with. But what they're not told is that some college majors are, to suit the thread, scams. Art, theater, graphic design, culinary arts, fashion design, athletic training, etc. - sure, there are well-paying jobs to be had in those areas, but a large chunk of people who major in those things will end up with a job that doesn't pay enough to dig them out from under a mountain of student debt.
What you say is totally true from the programmer's perspective (who would likely to faint out in the kitchen)
Would he be likely to faint out in the kitchen though? Nah. Chances are, unless he works really slowly or poorly under pressure (traits that are not common for computer programmers), he would be just fine after a few days of training. The fast food worker would still be hopelessly lost at computer programming after the same amount of training in that field.
Quotewho failed that damn computer class in high school twice.
And whose fault is that?
QuoteFun fact: as far as I know, McDonalds required everyone in HQ to spent some time (a day a year? every few years?) as a regular restaurant crew. I have a picture of my friend, a high-level database designer, actually flipping burgers...
I think that's a great idea, but it doesn't refute my point.
Who's fault is that John has IQ of 140 and Jim is only 90? That Jay suffers from muscular degradation and Jack can win heavy lifting competition with little training? That Bob struggles with hand-eye coordination, and Tom can thread the needle with his eyes closed?
I don't know how to answer those questions. I don't know how ideal society would look like.
I am very willing to provoke others to express their thought though :)
We don't live in a socialist utopia yet, so according to capitalism, the laws of supply and demand dictate that computer programmers make more than fast food workers as there is a greater supply of one over the other.
Is it fair?
Yes.
What makes me think that?
I have been both. It look a lot more education to attain the ability to program computers. Thus, fewer people put forth the effort or have the aptitude, especially given how hard every company works computer programmers, which are not hourly workers (at least in every corporation that I've ever looked into) like fast food workers other than managers. In fact, it is so much work, I left my Sr. Systems Programming job in the Information Systems Division at a Fortune 1 company (60-80 hour work weeks) and started my own IT consulting business, just so I could get back to being compensated on an hourly basis like the good old fast food days. Obviously demand a much higher hourly rate than I did back in the days of punching dough, topping pizzas, and feeding the ovens at CiCi's.
Anyone who thinks they were a skilled chef after a week of training at McDonalds is fooling themselves. If that was the case, culinary schools wouldn't exist.
Quote from: hbelkins on January 12, 2023, 02:29:16 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on January 11, 2023, 02:14:04 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on January 11, 2023, 12:03:33 PMI know of no non-intoxicating recreational uses for weed. You don't smoke it because you like the aroma. You smoke it to get high.
Nonsense - in fact, if you use medical cannabis as prescribed, you won't get high.
You, and one other poster who responded, missed the word in bold in my quote above. Recreational. That, by definition, excludes any medical uses.
The reason you know of no non-intoxicating
recreational uses for weed is the fact that you (proudly) know almost nothing about it. The number of people who use cannabis, but don't get blazed, is significant higher than zero. And there are plenty of people who drink more than one alcoholic beverage per day/week/etc. They're called alcoholics.
Quote from: hbelkins on January 12, 2023, 02:29:16 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on January 11, 2023, 02:14:04 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on January 11, 2023, 12:03:33 PMI know of no non-intoxicating recreational uses for weed. You don't smoke it because you like the aroma. You smoke it to get high.
Nonsense - in fact, if you use medical cannabis as prescribed, you won't get high.
You, and one other poster who responded, missed the word in bold in my quote above. Recreational. That, by definition, excludes any medical uses.
As I wrote above, I like the smell and taste of weed. And I don't remember the last time I was "high". Just as you could have a beer, not be drunk, but tell that you have ingested alcohol, I can take a hit of my vape pen and pleasantly go on with my day (or more probably, night) without being dramatically intoxicated.
Quote from: kalvado on January 11, 2023, 09:16:00 PM
Who's fault is that John has IQ of 140 and Jim is only 90? That Jay suffers from muscular degradation and Jack can win heavy lifting competition with little training? That Bob struggles with hand-eye coordination, and Tom can thread the needle with his eyes closed?
I don't know how to answer those questions. I don't know how ideal society would look like.
I am very willing to provoke others to express their thought though :)
I was going to let this comment go because there's obviously a lot of gray area here. But we can't just attribute everyone's successes and failures to genetics. Are some people naturally gifted? Yes. Are some people naturally at a significant disadvantage? Yes. But most people are neither. 9 times out of 10, our hypothetical fast food worker failed the computer class because he didn't work hard enough at it.
I've long believed that the political divide in the US boils down to one single issue: how much of the average person's life situation falls on their decisions, and how much of it falls on chance? The answer is obviously between the two extremes. I think it's a lot more chance than it is choices, but the people who act like it's 100% all chance are the ones who usually end up dissatisfied. (Not talking about anyone in particular here.)
Quote from: JayhawkCO on January 12, 2023, 03:36:49 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on January 12, 2023, 02:29:16 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on January 11, 2023, 02:14:04 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on January 11, 2023, 12:03:33 PMI know of no non-intoxicating recreational uses for weed. You don't smoke it because you like the aroma. You smoke it to get high.
Nonsense - in fact, if you use medical cannabis as prescribed, you won't get high.
You, and one other poster who responded, missed the word in bold in my quote above. Recreational. That, by definition, excludes any medical uses.
As I wrote above, I like the smell and taste of weed. And I don't remember the last time I was "high". Just as you could have a beer, not be drunk, but tell that you have ingested alcohol, I can take a hit of my vape pen and pleasantly go on with my day (or more probably, night) without being dramatically intoxicated.
certainly rings the bell with the trends which lead to Prohibition...
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.theathlete.org%2Fdrug-abuse%2Fimages%2FFig5-8.jpg&hash=050ca157f6b41d5979d3561e881060ac7cd68629)
Quote from: thspfc on January 12, 2023, 03:40:27 PM
Quote from: kalvado on January 11, 2023, 09:16:00 PM
Who's fault is that John has IQ of 140 and Jim is only 90? That Jay suffers from muscular degradation and Jack can win heavy lifting competition with little training? That Bob struggles with hand-eye coordination, and Tom can thread the needle with his eyes closed?
I don't know how to answer those questions. I don't know how ideal society would look like.
I am very willing to provoke others to express their thought though :)
I was going to let this comment go because there's obviously a lot of gray area here. But we can't just attribute everyone's successes and failures to genetics. Are some people naturally gifted? Yes. Are some people naturally at a significant disadvantage? Yes. But most people are neither. 9 times out of 10, our hypothetical fast food worker failed the computer class because he didn't work hard enough at it.
I've long believed that the political divide in the US boils down to one single issue: how much of the average person's life situation falls on their decisions, and how much of it falls on chance? The answer is obviously between the two extremes. I think it's a lot more chance than it is choices, but the people who act like it's 100% all chance are the ones who usually end up dissatisfied. (Not talking about anyone in particular here.)
From societal perspective, everyone has to push their life to achieve their best - whatever "best" would mean. It is fairly recent thing from historical perspective that people can afford very little effort and still not find out the true meaning of words "starvation" and "poverty".
I had somewhat similar discussions in terms of disabled people support. Darwin says some nasty things, humanism says they have to be thoroughly accommodated. Strong accommodation removes incentives to push hard for better outcome... Was it CA or IL where 15% of drivers had "disabled" plaques?
Again, I don't know...
Quote from: thspfc on January 12, 2023, 03:40:27 PM
Quote from: kalvado on January 11, 2023, 09:16:00 PM
Who's fault is that John has IQ of 140 and Jim is only 90? That Jay suffers from muscular degradation and Jack can win heavy lifting competition with little training? That Bob struggles with hand-eye coordination, and Tom can thread the needle with his eyes closed?
I don't know how to answer those questions. I don't know how ideal society would look like.
I am very willing to provoke others to express their thought though :)
I was going to let this comment go because there's obviously a lot of gray area here. But we can't just attribute everyone's successes and failures to genetics. Are some people naturally gifted? Yes. Are some people naturally at a significant disadvantage? Yes. But most people are neither. 9 times out of 10, our hypothetical fast food worker failed the computer class because he didn't work hard enough at it.
Working hard is a scam.
Quote from: kalvado on January 12, 2023, 03:48:44 PMStrong accommodation removes incentives to push hard for better outcome
You believe that quadriplegics need to pull themselves up by their bootstraps?
Quote from: kalvado on January 12, 2023, 03:48:44 PMWas it CA or IL where 15% of drivers had "disabled" plaques?
Wasn't IL - it's difficult to get even a temporary handicapped parking permit.
And I'm sure the percentage of AZ and FL residents who have handicapped parking permits is quite high, given the number of retirees that live there, but I'm not sure what that's supposed to prove.
Quote from: Scott5114 on January 12, 2023, 05:14:48 PM
Working hard is a scam.
Work harder so the people above you can take credit for your effort!
Quote from: abefroman329 on January 12, 2023, 05:19:50 PM
Quote from: kalvado on January 12, 2023, 03:48:44 PMStrong accommodation removes incentives to push hard for better outcome
You believe that quadriplegics need to pull themselves up by their bootstraps?
You do realize that's an expression and never meant to be taken verbatim literally?
Someone says to me, "You should do what your grandparents did to survive." I was born without a paternal grandfather. Should I say their advice is not applicable on a technicality due to me having an incomplete set of grandparents? No, I get what they are saying, which the inference is to do what was done in a simpler time.....
Quote from: ethanhopkin14 on January 12, 2023, 05:25:33 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on January 12, 2023, 05:19:50 PM
Quote from: kalvado on January 12, 2023, 03:48:44 PMStrong accommodation removes incentives to push hard for better outcome
You believe that quadriplegics need to pull themselves up by their bootstraps?
You do realize that's an expression and never meant to be taken verbatim literally?
I do, yes.
You do realize that "pull yourself up by your bootstraps" is a physical impossibility and was intended to satirize people who think hard work, and hard work alone, will get you out of poverty?
Quote from: abefroman329 on January 12, 2023, 05:28:23 PM
Quote from: ethanhopkin14 on January 12, 2023, 05:25:33 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on January 12, 2023, 05:19:50 PM
Quote from: kalvado on January 12, 2023, 03:48:44 PMStrong accommodation removes incentives to push hard for better outcome
You believe that quadriplegics need to pull themselves up by their bootstraps?
You do realize that's an expression and never meant to be taken verbatim literally?
I do, yes.
You do realize that "pull yourself up by your bootstraps" is a physical impossibility and was intended to satirize people who think hard work, and hard work alone, will get you out of poverty?
Yes I read that article about that subject that is the internet's newest fetish to try to discredit something on a technicality. I heard it all my life. I never cared if you can pull your bootstraps up by yourself or not or the physicaly ablitiy to do so and I still don't. I know what my dad was saying to me when he yelled it to me. "Stop being lazy, feeling sorry for yourself and go do something about it."
Quote from: ethanhopkin14 on January 12, 2023, 05:32:53 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on January 12, 2023, 05:28:23 PM
Quote from: ethanhopkin14 on January 12, 2023, 05:25:33 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on January 12, 2023, 05:19:50 PM
Quote from: kalvado on January 12, 2023, 03:48:44 PMStrong accommodation removes incentives to push hard for better outcome
You believe that quadriplegics need to pull themselves up by their bootstraps?
You do realize that's an expression and never meant to be taken verbatim literally?
I do, yes.
You do realize that "pull yourself up by your bootstraps" is a physical impossibility and was intended to satirize people who think hard work, and hard work alone, will get you out of poverty?
Yes I read that article about that subject that is the internet's newest fetish to try to discredit something on a technicality. I heard it all my life. I never cared if you can pull your bootstraps up by yourself or not or the physicaly ablitiy to do so and I still don't. I know what my dad was saying to me when he yelled it to me. "Stop being lazy, feeling sorry for yourself and go do something about it."
So...quadriplegics just need to stop being lazy and feeling sorry for themselves, and they need to go do something about it?
I think a huge factor in all of this that's not being acknowledged is a big fat dose of luck. No matter how skilled or well-off someone may start out, it always requires some level of luck to be able to become successful or make huge money. Even many rich singers/social media influencers/CEOs probably didn't expect for their company/talent/social media channel to explode the way it did. Sometimes it's just like hitting the lottery, just with easier odds than mega millions.
And of course you can work hard and apply yourself and not give up for years and get exactly jack squat out of it.
Quote from: abefroman329 on January 12, 2023, 05:40:09 PM
Quote from: ethanhopkin14 on January 12, 2023, 05:32:53 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on January 12, 2023, 05:28:23 PM
Quote from: ethanhopkin14 on January 12, 2023, 05:25:33 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on January 12, 2023, 05:19:50 PM
Quote from: kalvado on January 12, 2023, 03:48:44 PMStrong accommodation removes incentives to push hard for better outcome
You believe that quadriplegics need to pull themselves up by their bootstraps?
You do realize that's an expression and never meant to be taken verbatim literally?
I do, yes.
You do realize that "pull yourself up by your bootstraps" is a physical impossibility and was intended to satirize people who think hard work, and hard work alone, will get you out of poverty?
Yes I read that article about that subject that is the internet's newest fetish to try to discredit something on a technicality. I heard it all my life. I never cared if you can pull your bootstraps up by yourself or not or the physicaly ablitiy to do so and I still don't. I know what my dad was saying to me when he yelled it to me. "Stop being lazy, feeling sorry for yourself and go do something about it."
So...quadriplegics just need to stop being lazy and feeling sorry for themselves, and they need to go do something about it?
I don't know. My dad was yelling at me, not a quadriplegic. I do not know about their situation. Half of the time I barely know my situation.
Quote from: ethanhopkin14 on January 12, 2023, 05:52:32 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on January 12, 2023, 05:40:09 PM
Quote from: ethanhopkin14 on January 12, 2023, 05:32:53 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on January 12, 2023, 05:28:23 PM
Quote from: ethanhopkin14 on January 12, 2023, 05:25:33 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on January 12, 2023, 05:19:50 PM
Quote from: kalvado on January 12, 2023, 03:48:44 PMStrong accommodation removes incentives to push hard for better outcome
You believe that quadriplegics need to pull themselves up by their bootstraps?
You do realize that's an expression and never meant to be taken verbatim literally?
I do, yes.
You do realize that "pull yourself up by your bootstraps" is a physical impossibility and was intended to satirize people who think hard work, and hard work alone, will get you out of poverty?
Yes I read that article about that subject that is the internet's newest fetish to try to discredit something on a technicality. I heard it all my life. I never cared if you can pull your bootstraps up by yourself or not or the physicaly ablitiy to do so and I still don't. I know what my dad was saying to me when he yelled it to me. "Stop being lazy, feeling sorry for yourself and go do something about it."
So...quadriplegics just need to stop being lazy and feeling sorry for themselves, and they need to go do something about it?
I don't know. My dad was yelling at me, not a quadriplegic. I do not know about their situation. Half of the time I barely know my situation.
Ah, ok. My question was really directed at kalvado, who appeared to be arguing that disabled people need to get off their asses and be productive.
Quote from: Scott5114 on January 12, 2023, 05:49:34 PM
And of course you can work hard and apply yourself and not give up for years and get exactly jack squat out of it.
Yeah.
Also, banging on a keyboard isn't "hard work."
Quote from: abefroman329 on January 12, 2023, 05:55:39 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on January 12, 2023, 05:49:34 PM
And of course you can work hard and apply yourself and not give up for years and get exactly jack squat out of it.
Yeah.
Also, banging on a keyboard isn't "hard work."
You're even less likely to be successful doing hard physical work than you are banging on a keyboard.
Quote from: Scott5114 on January 12, 2023, 05:14:48 PM
Quote from: thspfc on January 12, 2023, 03:40:27 PM
Quote from: kalvado on January 11, 2023, 09:16:00 PM
Who's fault is that John has IQ of 140 and Jim is only 90? That Jay suffers from muscular degradation and Jack can win heavy lifting competition with little training? That Bob struggles with hand-eye coordination, and Tom can thread the needle with his eyes closed?
I don't know how to answer those questions. I don't know how ideal society would look like.
I am very willing to provoke others to express their thought though :)
I was going to let this comment go because there's obviously a lot of gray area here. But we can't just attribute everyone's successes and failures to genetics. Are some people naturally gifted? Yes. Are some people naturally at a significant disadvantage? Yes. But most people are neither. 9 times out of 10, our hypothetical fast food worker failed the computer class because he didn't work hard enough at it.
Working hard is a scam.
And the better option is?
Quote from: thspfc on January 12, 2023, 06:05:02 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on January 12, 2023, 05:14:48 PM
Quote from: thspfc on January 12, 2023, 03:40:27 PM
Quote from: kalvado on January 11, 2023, 09:16:00 PM
Who's fault is that John has IQ of 140 and Jim is only 90? That Jay suffers from muscular degradation and Jack can win heavy lifting competition with little training? That Bob struggles with hand-eye coordination, and Tom can thread the needle with his eyes closed?
I don't know how to answer those questions. I don't know how ideal society would look like.
I am very willing to provoke others to express their thought though :)
I was going to let this comment go because there's obviously a lot of gray area here. But we can't just attribute everyone's successes and failures to genetics. Are some people naturally gifted? Yes. Are some people naturally at a significant disadvantage? Yes. But most people are neither. 9 times out of 10, our hypothetical fast food worker failed the computer class because he didn't work hard enough at it.
Working hard is a scam.
And the better option is?
arson
Quote from: Scott5114 on January 12, 2023, 05:59:49 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on January 12, 2023, 05:55:39 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on January 12, 2023, 05:49:34 PM
And of course you can work hard and apply yourself and not give up for years and get exactly jack squat out of it.
Yeah.
Also, banging on a keyboard isn't "hard work."
You're even less likely to be successful doing hard physical work than you are banging on a keyboard.
Trades seem quite profitable nowadays.
Quote from: abefroman329 on January 12, 2023, 05:19:50 PM
Quote from: kalvado on January 12, 2023, 03:48:44 PMStrong accommodation removes incentives to push hard for better outcome
You believe that quadriplegics need to pull themselves up by their bootstraps?
Not the OP, but wow, way to miss the point. I already set aside people who were born genuinely disadvantaged.
Quote from: abefroman329 on January 12, 2023, 05:40:09 PM
Quote from: ethanhopkin14 on January 12, 2023, 05:32:53 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on January 12, 2023, 05:28:23 PM
Quote from: ethanhopkin14 on January 12, 2023, 05:25:33 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on January 12, 2023, 05:19:50 PM
Quote from: kalvado on January 12, 2023, 03:48:44 PMStrong accommodation removes incentives to push hard for better outcome
You believe that quadriplegics need to pull themselves up by their bootstraps?
You do realize that's an expression and never meant to be taken verbatim literally?
I do, yes.
You do realize that "pull yourself up by your bootstraps" is a physical impossibility and was intended to satirize people who think hard work, and hard work alone, will get you out of poverty?
Yes I read that article about that subject that is the internet's newest fetish to try to discredit something on a technicality. I heard it all my life. I never cared if you can pull your bootstraps up by yourself or not or the physicaly ablitiy to do so and I still don't. I know what my dad was saying to me when he yelled it to me. "Stop being lazy, feeling sorry for yourself and go do something about it."
So...quadriplegics just need to stop being lazy and feeling sorry for themselves, and they need to go do something about it?
Wow 😬
Quote from: Scott5114 on January 12, 2023, 05:59:49 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on January 12, 2023, 05:55:39 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on January 12, 2023, 05:49:34 PM
And of course you can work hard and apply yourself and not give up for years and get exactly jack squat out of it.
Yeah.
Also, banging on a keyboard isn't "hard work."
You're even less likely to be successful doing hard physical work than you are banging on a keyboard.
You say that now, but once an infinite number of monkeys at an infinite number of keyboards recreate the works of Shakespeare.
Quote from: Scott5114 on January 12, 2023, 06:06:01 PM
Quote from: thspfc on January 12, 2023, 06:05:02 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on January 12, 2023, 05:14:48 PM
Quote from: thspfc on January 12, 2023, 03:40:27 PM
Quote from: kalvado on January 11, 2023, 09:16:00 PM
Who's fault is that John has IQ of 140 and Jim is only 90? That Jay suffers from muscular degradation and Jack can win heavy lifting competition with little training? That Bob struggles with hand-eye coordination, and Tom can thread the needle with his eyes closed?
I don't know how to answer those questions. I don't know how ideal society would look like.
I am very willing to provoke others to express their thought though :)
I was going to let this comment go because there's obviously a lot of gray area here. But we can't just attribute everyone's successes and failures to genetics. Are some people naturally gifted? Yes. Are some people naturally at a significant disadvantage? Yes. But most people are neither. 9 times out of 10, our hypothetical fast food worker failed the computer class because he didn't work hard enough at it.
Working hard is a scam.
And the better option is?
arson
Drugs....definitely drugs.
Quote from: MultiMillionMiler on January 12, 2023, 05:48:07 PM
I think a huge factor in all of this that's not being acknowledged is a big fat dose of luck. No matter how skilled or well-off someone may start out, it always requires some level of luck to be able to become successful or make huge money. Even many rich singers/social media influencers/CEOs probably didn't expect for their company/talent/social media channel to explode the way it did. Sometimes it's just like hitting the lottery, just with easier odds than mega millions.
Quote from: thspfc on January 12, 2023, 03:40:27 PM
The answer is obviously between the two extremes. I think it's a lot more chance than it is choices
Quote from: thspfc on January 12, 2023, 06:07:11 PMNot the OP, but wow, way to miss the point. I already set aside people who were born genuinely disadvantaged.
OK, since you decided to insert yourself in a conversation that was never directed at you to begin with, who gets to decide who is "born genuinely disadvantaged" and who isn't?
Quote from: thspfc on January 12, 2023, 03:40:27 PMThe answer is obviously between the two extremes. I think it's a lot more chance than it is choices
FWIW, I don't disagree with any of this. The answer is almost always in the mushball middle.
Quote from: abefroman329 on January 12, 2023, 06:11:38 PM
Quote from: thspfc on January 12, 2023, 06:07:11 PMNot the OP, but wow, way to miss the point. I already set aside people who were born genuinely disadvantaged.
OK, since you decided to insert yourself in a conversation that was never directed at you to begin with, who gets to decide who is "born genuinely disadvantaged" and who isn't?
Why is that an important question to this conversation? I'm just sharing my opinions, not trying to change the world. I'd say any of the following makes you "genuinely disadvantaged":
a) born with a major disability (we don't need to go through every genetic condition here)
b) born into poverty (don't be like "well someone making $1 above the poverty line isn't genuinely disadvantaged then?" it's a spectrum)
c) victim of a tragic event (i.e. natural disaster, debilitating car crash or other accident, etc.)
d) probably other things I'm not thinking of
Quote from: kalvado on January 12, 2023, 03:41:12 PM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on January 12, 2023, 03:36:49 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on January 12, 2023, 02:29:16 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on January 11, 2023, 02:14:04 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on January 11, 2023, 12:03:33 PMI know of no non-intoxicating recreational uses for weed. You don't smoke it because you like the aroma. You smoke it to get high.
Nonsense - in fact, if you use medical cannabis as prescribed, you won't get high.
You, and one other poster who responded, missed the word in bold in my quote above. Recreational. That, by definition, excludes any medical uses.
As I wrote above, I like the smell and taste of weed. And I don't remember the last time I was "high". Just as you could have a beer, not be drunk, but tell that you have ingested alcohol, I can take a hit of my vape pen and pleasantly go on with my day (or more probably, night) without being dramatically intoxicated.
certainly rings the bell with the trends which lead to Prohibition...
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.theathlete.org%2Fdrug-abuse%2Fimages%2FFig5-8.jpg&hash=050ca157f6b41d5979d3561e881060ac7cd68629)
Can you expound? I don't understand what you're getting at.
Quote from: abefroman329 on January 12, 2023, 05:40:09 PM
Quote from: ethanhopkin14 on January 12, 2023, 05:32:53 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on January 12, 2023, 05:28:23 PM
Quote from: ethanhopkin14 on January 12, 2023, 05:25:33 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on January 12, 2023, 05:19:50 PM
Quote from: kalvado on January 12, 2023, 03:48:44 PMStrong accommodation removes incentives to push hard for better outcome
You believe that quadriplegics need to pull themselves up by their bootstraps?
You do realize that's an expression and never meant to be taken verbatim literally?
I do, yes.
You do realize that "pull yourself up by your bootstraps" is a physical impossibility and was intended to satirize people who think hard work, and hard work alone, will get you out of poverty?
Yes I read that article about that subject that is the internet's newest fetish to try to discredit something on a technicality. I heard it all my life. I never cared if you can pull your bootstraps up by yourself or not or the physicaly ablitiy to do so and I still don't. I know what my dad was saying to me when he yelled it to me. "Stop being lazy, feeling sorry for yourself and go do something about it."
So...quadriplegics just need to stop being lazy and feeling sorry for themselves, and they need to go do something about it?
Well, sure. It may be not very efficient, though.
Overall, I don't know. Neither did Stephen Hawking...
Another extreme is someone refusing to go to work in mid-2022 because of covid fears.
Quote from: Rothman on January 12, 2023, 06:06:53 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on January 12, 2023, 05:59:49 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on January 12, 2023, 05:55:39 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on January 12, 2023, 05:49:34 PM
And of course you can work hard and apply yourself and not give up for years and get exactly jack squat out of it.
Yeah.
Also, banging on a keyboard isn't "hard work."
You're even less likely to be successful doing hard physical work than you are banging on a keyboard.
Trades seem quite profitable nowadays.
Supply and demand again. I've got 3 kids, one of which will be out of high school in 3.5 years. Told them all that I wouldn't bat an eye for them to use their somewhat meager college fund for trade school instead.
College is the scam nowadays. Most everything of substance can be learned on a curriculum focused on the desired career choice, or better yet, under an apprenticeship to learn on the job.
I went to college for free and still think it was a waste of time. Paying for it is definitely a scam.
I don't know if college is a scam, but advanced degrees often are.
I have a master's in communications and I don't know that it has materially improved my life over merely having a bachelor's degree.
I don't think unions are scams, they're more like cults. The amount of groupthink exhibited by union loyalists boggles the mind. There's definitely an emphasis on the collective as opposed to the individual.
Quote from: hbelkins on January 12, 2023, 09:32:13 PM
I don't know if college is a scam, but advanced degrees often are.
Not if you get paid to get them.
Quote from: hbelkins on January 12, 2023, 09:32:13 PM
There's definitely an emphasis on the collective as opposed to the individual.
Now why would an organization formed for the purpose of establishing a collective bargaining agreement emphasize the collective? :hmmm:
Quote from: hbelkins on January 12, 2023, 09:32:13 PM
I don't know if college is a scam, but advanced degrees often are.
I have a master's in communications and I don't know that it has materially improved my life over merely having a bachelor's degree.
We had a few people get masters degrees over the past few years, and then they expect to be promoted, except the promotional title doesn't need a masters, and they don't have the experience within the organization to get the promotion, so they are stuck in their same position making the same amount of money.
I don't think going to college in my case was a scam. If you go to a school that costs less, and even better, go community college for the first two years, and choose a degree worth pursuing (i.e., engineering in my case), it's worth it.
Most universities still charge atrociously high amounts though.
A few more scams:
pay day loans
numerology
whenever something says "real" food or "real" ingredients
lie detectors
plastic recycling is a scam by the plastics industry to externalize the disposal cost of their products
corn ethanol as a motor fuel
Quote from: JoePCool14 on January 13, 2023, 09:26:20 AM
Most universities still charge atrociously high amounts though.
I've noticed that the better schools charge less.
My total student debt for UMass Lowell, which is about average in quality and cost for the average person, is about $39,000. This includes graduate school, but it's less than most other people because I lived at home rather than there and had free tuition (about 1/5 of the total cost), several grants, and $5000 from something I won in high school that was a combination of academic achievement and being low-income.
MIT says that if someone can't afford it, they'll cover it. Being low-income at the time, I likely would have spent less there if I had gotten in.
On the opposite end of the spectrum, schools like the University of Phoenix let almost anyone in but cost quite a lot.
Quote from: triplemultiplex on January 13, 2023, 09:26:40 AM
plastic recycling is a scam by the plastics industry to externalize the disposal cost of their products
People appear to have finally learned this.
Quote from: triplemultiplex on January 13, 2023, 09:26:40 AMpay day loans
Anything that preys on the poor, really. People can slam "woke capitalism" all they want, but if it leads to banks having a meaningful presence in majority-minority neighborhoods, that's fine by me.
Quote from: triplemultiplex on January 13, 2023, 09:26:40 AMcorn ethanol as a motor fuel
I mean, farm subsidies are a scam, but if we must have them, then I'd rather turn the corn into fuel than high-fructose corn syrup.
Quote from: 1 on January 13, 2023, 09:35:23 AMOn the opposite end of the spectrum, schools like the University of Phoenix let almost anyone in but cost quite a lot.
For-profit colleges and universities are a scam.
Quote from: hbelkins on January 12, 2023, 09:32:13 PM
I don't know if college is a scam, but advanced degrees often are.
I have a master's in communications and I don't know that it has materially improved my life over merely having a bachelor's degree.
My MBA has helped me get a few jobs where I didn't have the extensive background in financial services my coworkers have. But I concentrated in management, and have yet to manage anyone, so.
Quote from: hbelkins on January 12, 2023, 09:32:13 PMThere's definitely an emphasis on the collective as opposed to the individual.
One would hope.
Quote from: hbelkins on January 12, 2023, 09:32:13 PM
merely having a bachelor's degree.
I admire the humble brag.
Quote from: hbelkins on January 12, 2023, 09:32:13 PM
I don't think unions are scams, they're more like cults. The amount of groupthink exhibited by union loyalists boggles the mind. There's definitely an emphasis on the collective as opposed to the individual.
Unions to me are exactly like HOAs. Both were more than needed for their time and place and through time have both amassed so much power they abuse it. They are still warranted today, but maybe not in their current capacity.
My Masters hasn't gotten me a job yet, 5 years later. But I don't blame the education. I'm terrible at promoting myself. I stutter and ramble during job interviews. Nerves and autism make me very hard to market.
Quote from: abefroman329 on January 13, 2023, 09:53:38 AM
Quote from: triplemultiplex on January 13, 2023, 09:26:40 AMcorn ethanol as a motor fuel
I mean, farm subsidies are a scam, but if we must have them, then I'd rather turn the corn into fuel than high-fructose corn syrup.
I'd rather not promote a fuel that increases the profitability of rainforest deforestation.
I've read that sugar cane makes for better ethanol than corn, but last I checked we don't have a sugar cane lobby.
Quote from: kphoger on January 13, 2023, 10:15:33 AM
Quote from: abefroman329 on January 13, 2023, 09:53:38 AM
Quote from: triplemultiplex on January 13, 2023, 09:26:40 AMcorn ethanol as a motor fuel
I mean, farm subsidies are a scam, but if we must have them, then I'd rather turn the corn into fuel than high-fructose corn syrup.
I'd rather not promote a fuel that increases the profitability of rainforest deforestation.
Pizza trees is all we really need.
And why education is a scum.. A high school graduate should be able to collect data about arable land available in US, average harvest numbers, and per capita demand of food/fuel/energy to see how things add up. I wonder if today's MS is enough for such task
Quote from: kphoger on January 13, 2023, 09:50:26 AM
Quote from: triplemultiplex on January 13, 2023, 09:26:40 AM
plastic recycling is a scam by the plastics industry to externalize the disposal cost of their products
People appear to have finally learned this.
I have always thought that the best use of that stuff was to be ground up and used as boiler fuel. Maybe as a locomotive fuel if the railroads still ran on steam. Ditto tires.
Mike
That would make diesel tailpipe emissions look like sugarplum fairy farts.
Quote from: triplemultiplex on January 13, 2023, 04:30:14 PM
That would make diesel tailpipe emissions look like sugarplum fairy farts.
Actually, most of hazardous wastes are treated by incineration. burning plastic as an additive fuel should be very clean - except for PVC and teflon, of course
Quote from: triplemultiplex on January 13, 2023, 09:26:40 AM
whenever something says "real" food or "real" ingredients
I always wonder what the "non-real" ingredients would be. Are they imaginary? Or when it says something contains flour, it might actually be sawdust?
Another scam is alkaline water. Drinking it can't change the pH level of your body, and if it did, you'd most likely die.
^^when I see "real" it usually means "real gross" or "real disgusting".
Quote from: bm7 on January 14, 2023, 12:21:00 AM
Quote from: triplemultiplex on January 13, 2023, 09:26:40 AM
whenever something says "real" food or "real" ingredients
I always wonder what the "non-real" ingredients would be. Are they imaginary? Or when it says something contains flour, it might actually be sawdust?
Another scam is alkaline water. Drinking it can't change the pH level of your body, and if it did, you'd most likely die.
Well, non-real ingredients are real. sometimes they are mostly harmless, sometimes they are specifically marketed as such, and sometimes it is shaky.
Vanillin instead of real vanilla is a pretty standard and accepted option. "I can't believe this is not butter" or "plant burgers" are proudly sold as such.
It may be less honest, though.
There was a pretty interesting story about fake eggs. Like eggs made out of gelatine and dye with much less cooking or nutritious value
palm oil based substitutes for milk fats like cream or butter could be billed as plant-based, but process to create solid fats involves some serious chemical treatment.
Flavored corn syrup can be presented as honey.
quite a few things can be like that. Labeling requirements protect to some extent, but creative approach to these regulations also exists.
Quote from: kalvado on January 14, 2023, 06:04:54 AM
Quote from: bm7 on January 14, 2023, 12:21:00 AM
Quote from: triplemultiplex on January 13, 2023, 09:26:40 AM
whenever something says "real" food or "real" ingredients
I always wonder what the "non-real" ingredients would be. Are they imaginary? Or when it says something contains flour, it might actually be sawdust?
Another scam is alkaline water. Drinking it can't change the pH level of your body, and if it did, you'd most likely die.
Well, non-real ingredients are real. sometimes they are mostly harmless, sometimes they are specifically marketed as such, and sometimes it is shaky.
Vanillin instead of real vanilla is a pretty standard and accepted option. "I can't believe this is not butter" or "plant burgers" are proudly sold as such.
It may be less honest, though.
There was a pretty interesting story about fake eggs. Like eggs made out of gelatine and dye with much less cooking or nutritious value
palm oil based substitutes for milk fats like cream or butter could be billed as plant-based, but process to create solid fats involves some serious chemical treatment.
Flavored corn syrup can be presented as honey.
quite a few things can be like that. Labeling requirements protect to some extent, but creative approach to these regulations also exists.
Nothing about those ingredients is fake, though. They are very much real, and they are in the food. "Made with real cheese" makes sense. "Made with real ingredients" doesn't, as every food contains ingredients that are real.
Heh. "Vanilla instead of real vanilla." At least in NY, it's imitation vanilla and vanilla extract. Price is also a big indicator of the difference.
Haven't seen corn syrup passed off as honey. Honey here is labeled as pure honey.
New and Improved.
Quote from: Takumi on January 13, 2023, 10:26:13 AM
I've read that sugar cane makes for better ethanol than corn, but last I checked we don't have a sugar cane lobby.
Because the US has very little land suitable for sugar cane cultivation. I'm sure it would be a powerful lobby if the US was located closer to the tropics like Brazil.
Quote from: Rothman on January 14, 2023, 11:01:45 AM
Heh. "Vanilla instead of real vanilla." At least in NY, it's imitation vanilla and vanilla extract. Price is also a big indicator of the difference.
Haven't seen corn syrup passed off as honey. Honey here is labeled as pure honey.
I was certainly thinking about chemical synthesis of vanillin vs good old vanilla beans. There are still a few places where you can get beans, once you get past the price shock. I don't think "imitation" is used that much anymore
Quote from: Rothman on January 14, 2023, 11:01:45 AM
Heh. "Vanilla instead of real vanilla." At least in NY, it's imitation vanilla and vanilla extract. Price is also a big indicator of the difference.
Haven't seen corn syrup passed off as honey. Honey here is labeled as pure honey.
And as for honey... Once upon a time I did a proper analysis of honey I had on hand. All 10 bottles. I just happened to get some access to equipment....
All local honey looked real and natural. 'Orange blossom" from of 2 big retailers over here came out... questionable. Not to the point I would send a letter to AG, but enough for me to send a memo to myself - "local honey only!"
Another way to make semi-real stuff is to feed bees with syrup. The result will be something like honey, but not quite it.
And in terms of "real ingredients".. There was a scandal when they did DNA testing on pharmacy-purchased medical herbs. I believe more than half had no traces of the plant named on the label....
Quote from: Roadgeek Adam on January 13, 2023, 10:09:41 AM
My Masters hasn't gotten me a job yet, 5 years later. But I don't blame the education. I'm terrible at promoting myself. I stutter and ramble during job interviews. Nerves and autism make me very hard to market.
What were your career goals and objectives in pursing those history degrees? What kind of job market is there for someone with a post-graduate degree in history?
Community college history professor. Still my dream. Still achievable, but I'm just trying to have a 9-5 job that my degrees fit for now so I can start adjuncting on the side.
Quote from: skluth on January 14, 2023, 12:07:50 PM
Quote from: Takumi on January 13, 2023, 10:26:13 AM
I've read that sugar cane makes for better ethanol than corn, but last I checked we don't have a sugar cane lobby.
Because the US has very little land suitable for sugar cane cultivation. I'm sure it would be a powerful lobby if the US was located closer to the tropics like Brazil.
Big Sugar is not a recording artist in Florida.
Sugar's farmland grip is still a mere fraction of corn's in the US.
Quote from: formulanone on January 15, 2023, 09:42:18 PM
Quote from: skluth on January 14, 2023, 12:07:50 PM
Quote from: Takumi on January 13, 2023, 10:26:13 AM
I've read that sugar cane makes for better ethanol than corn, but last I checked we don't have a sugar cane lobby.
Because the US has very little land suitable for sugar cane cultivation. I'm sure it would be a powerful lobby if the US was located closer to the tropics like Brazil.
Big Sugar is not a recording artist in Florida.
Sugar's farmland grip is still a mere fraction of corn's in the US.
Big Sugar left some cool ghost towns in the Everglades at least:
https://www.flickr.com/gp/151828809@N08/HJqf2C7q4D
Rockstar Games is a scam. I bought GTA 5 almost a year ago and it's now saying "activation required" even when I am fully connected to the internet. All their support team does is give a bunch of gibberish technobabble troubleshooting steps which don't end up working (obviously). I may have even bought the game a 2nd time for nothing. Now I have to turn my computer clock back again to January 2nd, (for some reason rolling the time back seems to temporarily fix this problem) to play the game offline. Life is too hard.
Quote from: skluth on January 06, 2023, 05:04:34 PM
Re: Gluten free
Let's not forget all the items nearly 100% sugar being labeled "Fat-Free"
It's not a lie, there's no fat in sugar. :awesomeface:
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on January 07, 2023, 07:26:32 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on January 07, 2023, 07:24:46 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on January 07, 2023, 07:20:15 PM
Quote from: MultiMillionMiler on January 07, 2023, 06:59:31 PM
You sound like you need it so he's right. Take some deep breaths next time he's over and relax for once!
Can't, I'm a Federal Employee and get screened randomly. Marijuana is still a Federal Schedule I narcotic and thusly would appear on a screen. Likewise, I wouldn't allow someone to smoke a cigarette in my house either.
To be fair, the federal drug-testing policy is kind of a scam. It's led to a lot of government agencies being forced to contract out certain functions because it is entirely impossible to hire anyone qualified who tests clean. (Computer programming is the prime example–you don't have to be high out of your mind to do software engineering, but it sure does help you make mental connections that you wouldn't otherwise.)
I don't disagree, all the same I'm not risking my pension and 401k over some weed. A nice tall can of beer is more my speed anyways.
(https://www.captainlawrencebrewing.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/11/ClassicLager.jpg)
Quote from: MultiMillionMiler on January 07, 2023, 08:30:04 PM
I could never drink that disgusting stuff. I have never even tasted beer in my life and never will. If I had a dollar for every recorded Marijuana death in human history I couldn't even buy a pizza.
There's always this tasty spread made from the leavings of beer brewing:
(https://ii.worldmarket.com/fcgi-bin/iipsrv.fcgi?FIF=/images/worldmarket/source/2850_XXX_v1.tif&qlt=50&wid=392&cvt=jpeg)
It's loverly on matzo for breakfast or a snack.
Quote from: mgk920 on January 08, 2023, 01:19:02 PM
- People who were (and still are) all wigged out over the 'Bug' for the past 3 years
Mike
Yeah, I was doing at least a code a night when the 'bug' was really nasty there 3 years back. And my nursing home was lucky, we got a handle on it earlier than most. Even so, we were stacking the deceased up in our mourge nightly for a good 6 months.
Quote from: Otto Yamamoto on January 16, 2023, 02:40:19 AM
Quote from: MultiMillionMiler on January 07, 2023, 08:30:04 PM
I could never drink that disgusting stuff. I have never even tasted beer in my life and never will. If I had a dollar for every recorded Marijuana death in human history I couldn't even buy a pizza.
There's always this tasty spread made from the leavings of beer brewing:
(https://ii.worldmarket.com/fcgi-bin/iipsrv.fcgi?FIF=/images/worldmarket/source/2850_XXX_v1.tif&qlt=50&wid=392&cvt=jpeg)
It's loverly on matzo for breakfast or a snack.
Reminds me of an I Love Lucy episode with a product Lucy was to endorse with a similar name.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r7IfR4fZW_k
Quote
Again, I say that not because I am a better person for not, but I just want to please put a stop to the "marijuana is perfectly fine for you" campaign I hear. It's not. It alters your mind and it's permanent (not saying you trip forever, just that if you use something that alters your mind, you better believe it has some kind of lasting effect).
Funny thing that. I have worked in nursing homes with residents that have had substance abuse problems for many years. Guess how many are related to cannibis?
Quote from: Otto Yamamoto on January 16, 2023, 02:40:19 AM
Quote from: MultiMillionMiler on January 07, 2023, 08:30:04 PM
I could never drink that disgusting stuff. I have never even tasted beer in my life and never will. If I had a dollar for every recorded Marijuana death in human history I couldn't even buy a pizza.
There's always this tasty spread made from the leavings of beer brewing:
(https://ii.worldmarket.com/fcgi-bin/iipsrv.fcgi?FIF=/images/worldmarket/source/2850_XXX_v1.tif&qlt=50&wid=392&cvt=jpeg)
It's loverly on matzo for breakfast or a snack.
I've had Marmite before and IMO that stuff was nasty.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on January 15, 2023, 10:32:47 PM
Quote from: formulanone on January 15, 2023, 09:42:18 PM
Quote from: skluth on January 14, 2023, 12:07:50 PM
Quote from: Takumi on January 13, 2023, 10:26:13 AM
I've read that sugar cane makes for better ethanol than corn, but last I checked we don't have a sugar cane lobby.
Because the US has very little land suitable for sugar cane cultivation. I'm sure it would be a powerful lobby if the US was located closer to the tropics like Brazil.
Big Sugar is not a recording artist in Florida.
Sugar's farmland grip is still a mere fraction of corn's in the US.
Big Sugar left some cool ghost towns in the Everglades at least:
https://www.flickr.com/gp/151828809@N08/HJqf2C7q4D
Fun factoid: Bryant still has its own zip code (33439).
I like using it on the rare occasions I get asked for a zip code.
Quote from: roadman65 on January 16, 2023, 02:54:11 AM
Quote from: Otto Yamamoto on January 16, 2023, 02:40:19 AM
Quote from: MultiMillionMiler on January 07, 2023, 08:30:04 PM
I could never drink that disgusting stuff. I have never even tasted beer in my life and never will. If I had a dollar for every recorded Marijuana death in human history I couldn't even buy a pizza.
There's always this tasty spread made from the leavings of beer brewing:
(https://ii.worldmarket.com/fcgi-bin/iipsrv.fcgi?FIF=/images/worldmarket/source/2850_XXX_v1.tif&qlt=50&wid=392&cvt=jpeg)
It's loverly on matzo for breakfast or a snack.
Reminds me of an I Love Lucy episode with a product Lucy was to endorse with a similar name.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r7IfR4fZW_k
No "Down Under" reference?
Quote from: Otto Yamamoto on January 16, 2023, 02:48:12 AM
Quote from: mgk920 on January 08, 2023, 01:19:02 PM
- People who were (and still are) all wigged out over the 'Bug' for the past 3 years
Mike
Yeah, I was doing at least a code a night when the 'bug' was really nasty there 3 years back. And my nursing home was lucky, we got a handle on it earlier than most. Even so, we were stacking the deceased up in our mourge nightly for a good 6 months.
Nursing homes and assisted living centers have normally been going into 'no visitors' mode when there are flu bugs going around for several years now (a couple of times per year for a week or two at a time), but how they were turned into virtual prisons during that time was beyond what was truly called for.
Mike
Quote from: mgk920 on January 16, 2023, 11:56:22 AM
Quote from: Otto Yamamoto on January 16, 2023, 02:48:12 AM
Quote from: mgk920 on January 08, 2023, 01:19:02 PM
- People who were (and still are) all wigged out over the 'Bug' for the past 3 years
Mike
Yeah, I was doing at least a code a night when the 'bug' was really nasty there 3 years back. And my nursing home was lucky, we got a handle on it earlier than most. Even so, we were stacking the deceased up in our mourge nightly for a good 6 months.
Nursing homes and assisted living centers have normally been going into 'no visitors' mode when there are flu bugs going around for several years now (a couple of times per year for a week or two at a time), but how they were turned into virtual prisons during that time was beyond what was truly called for.
Mike
This does not describe the nursing home in downstate IL where my wife's now-deceased aunt lived during COVID - I was there frequently in the summer of 2020 and COVID mitigation measures bordered on non-existent.
And even if it did, no one who refused to follow COVID recommendations gets to complain about health care facilities getting turned into "virtual prisons" - if it bothered you that much, then you should have done what you needed to do to stop the spread.
COVID trutherism is a scam.
Quote from: abefroman329 on January 16, 2023, 12:04:38 PM
COVID trutherism is a scam.
Did all of these contortions work?
Mike
Quote from: mgk920 on January 16, 2023, 12:08:09 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on January 16, 2023, 12:04:38 PM
COVID trutherism is a scam.
Did all of these contortions work?
Mike
Top-ranking deaths per capita, total from the beginning to now: AZ, MS, WV, AL, NM, AR, TN, MI, OK, NY, NJ, KY, LA, FL.
NY and NJ got it early, and the earliest months had the highest case-fatality ratio. Other than NM, the rest are red states, although this could easily be quality of life rankings rather than political party (which would explain why NM is on the list).
Of the 14 states I mentioned, four (NM, NY, NJ, FL) have above-average vaccination rates, it's been suspected that FL is overcounted because of people moving to or from there and being double-counted in both Florida and another state, and as I said earlier, a lot of NY and NJ's deaths came from before there was a vaccine.
Quote from: 1 on January 16, 2023, 12:10:41 PM
Quote from: mgk920 on January 16, 2023, 12:08:09 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on January 16, 2023, 12:04:38 PM
COVID trutherism is a scam.
Did all of these contortions work?
Mike
Top-ranking deaths per capita, total from the beginning to now: AZ, MS, WV, AL, NM, AR, TN, MI, OK, NY, NJ, KY, LA, FL.
NY and NJ got it early, and the earliest months had the highest case-fatality ratio. Other than NM, the rest are red states, although this could easily be quality of life rankings rather than political party (which would explain why NM is on the list).
Of the 14 states I mentioned, four (NM, NY, NJ, FL) have above-average vaccination rates, it's been suspected that FL is overcounted because of people moving to or from there and being double-counted in both Florida and another state, and as I said earlier, a lot of NY and NJ's deaths came from before there was a vaccine.
We also know that COVID cases/deaths in FL were underreported.
Quote from: formulanone on January 15, 2023, 09:42:18 PM
Quote from: skluth on January 14, 2023, 12:07:50 PM
Quote from: Takumi on January 13, 2023, 10:26:13 AM
I've read that sugar cane makes for better ethanol than corn, but last I checked we don't have a sugar cane lobby.
Because the US has very little land suitable for sugar cane cultivation. I'm sure it would be a powerful lobby if the US was located closer to the tropics like Brazil.
Big Sugar is not a recording artist in Florida.
Sugar's farmland grip is still a mere fraction of corn's in the US.
Small but highly influential. Protectionist tariffs on imported cane sugar were the reason we invented high fructose corn syrup. I suppose the sugar beet farmers were on board with those import tariffs, too.
Obviously demand exceeded supply making sugar artificially expensive thus incentivizing the market to develop a cheaper alternative. Now it's the default for any pre-made food item in America, even after import tariffs on sugar have been retired.
But speaking of which, there's a lot of scammers out there trying to scare people about high fructose corn syrup. They will blame literally anything on it, but they've got shit evidence to back it up. At the end of the day, sugar is sugar is sugar. You're body doesn't care if it came from sugar cane, beets, corn, or a damn apple. It's only the quantity one consumes that truly matters.
Quote from: abefroman329 on January 16, 2023, 12:20:51 PM
Quote from: 1 on January 16, 2023, 12:10:41 PM
Quote from: mgk920 on January 16, 2023, 12:08:09 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on January 16, 2023, 12:04:38 PM
COVID trutherism is a scam.
Did all of these contortions work?
Mike
Top-ranking deaths per capita, total from the beginning to now: AZ, MS, WV, AL, NM, AR, TN, MI, OK, NY, NJ, KY, LA, FL.
NY and NJ got it early, and the earliest months had the highest case-fatality ratio. Other than NM, the rest are red states, although this could easily be quality of life rankings rather than political party (which would explain why NM is on the list).
Of the 14 states I mentioned, four (NM, NY, NJ, FL) have above-average vaccination rates, it's been suspected that FL is overcounted because of people moving to or from there and being double-counted in both Florida and another state, and as I said earlier, a lot of NY and NJ's deaths came from before there was a vaccine.
We also know that COVID cases/deaths in FL were underreported.
The conspiracy theory that FL deaths were underreported was a scam.
Quote from: abefroman329 on January 16, 2023, 12:21:17 PM
Quote from: mgk920 on January 16, 2023, 12:08:09 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on January 16, 2023, 12:04:38 PM
COVID trutherism is a scam.
Did all of these contortions work?
Mike
What "contortions" were those?
My sense is that when the next 'pandemic' is declared, regardless of how truly serous it is, most of the public in general will be in 'the Boy who Cried WOLF!' mode. Scary indeed.
Mike
Quote from: mgk920 on January 16, 2023, 12:31:29 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on January 16, 2023, 12:21:17 PM
Quote from: mgk920 on January 16, 2023, 12:08:09 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on January 16, 2023, 12:04:38 PM
COVID trutherism is a scam.
Did all of these contortions work?
Mike
What "contortions" were those?
My sense is that when the next 'pandemic' is declared, regardless of how truly serous it is, most of the public in general will be in 'the Boy who Cried WOLF!' mode. Scary indeed.
Mike
My sense is that people who respond to minor inconveniences with MUH FREEDOM and a temper tantrum are petulant children.
Quote from: zzcarp on January 16, 2023, 12:27:03 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on January 16, 2023, 12:20:51 PM
Quote from: 1 on January 16, 2023, 12:10:41 PM
Quote from: mgk920 on January 16, 2023, 12:08:09 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on January 16, 2023, 12:04:38 PM
COVID trutherism is a scam.
Did all of these contortions work?
Mike
Top-ranking deaths per capita, total from the beginning to now: AZ, MS, WV, AL, NM, AR, TN, MI, OK, NY, NJ, KY, LA, FL.
NY and NJ got it early, and the earliest months had the highest case-fatality ratio. Other than NM, the rest are red states, although this could easily be quality of life rankings rather than political party (which would explain why NM is on the list).
Of the 14 states I mentioned, four (NM, NY, NJ, FL) have above-average vaccination rates, it's been suspected that FL is overcounted because of people moving to or from there and being double-counted in both Florida and another state, and as I said earlier, a lot of NY and NJ's deaths came from before there was a vaccine.
We also know that COVID cases/deaths in FL were underreported.
The conspiracy theory that FL deaths were underreported was a scam.
Uh huh.
https://www.sun-sentinel.com/coronavirus/fl-ne-coronavirus-florida-desantis-spin-ss-prem-20201203-tyjmgkos6bd7vo7vnripqliany-htmlstory.html
Are we really going to rehash the COVID thread again?
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on January 16, 2023, 12:45:27 PM
Are we really going to rehash the COVID thread again?
Hehehehe
Mike
Quote from: mgk920 on January 16, 2023, 02:36:06 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on January 16, 2023, 12:45:27 PM
Are we really going to rehash the COVID thread again?
Hehehehe
Mike
I think I'd rather hear about how Illinois isn't flat and how helicopter grapple hooks will save us from automotive accidents.
Illinois is not flat. No place on a spherical planet is flat. Everywhere on the earth is curved.
This thread is a scam.