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Non-Road Boards => Off-Topic => Topic started by: CNGL-Leudimin on November 02, 2023, 06:28:48 AM

Title: Place names that should be spelt differently according to pronounciation
Post by: CNGL-Leudimin on November 02, 2023, 06:28:48 AM
A few days ago and in light of some maps of the least populated counties, I had to check the outlier in Georgia. That county, Taliaferro, surprised me for two things: It is directly on I-20 (and thus I would have expected it to be more populated) and its pronounciation. If I were to guess from the latter, I would say it would be written "Toliver" instead.

Other examples would include any places ending in -cester besides Cirencester in the UK (the "ce" part should go away) and Buena Vista, Colorado, which really should be "Biuna Vista" so that it doesn't sound bad to Spanish speakers like me. Not to mention if we start with non-English speaking countries (most notably Łódź, pretty much straightforward in its native Polish but its English exonym should be something like "Woodge"). Any other notable examples?
Title: Re: Place names that should be spelt differently according to pronounciation
Post by: Big John on November 02, 2023, 06:47:50 AM
Worcester MA
Title: Re: Place names that should be spelt differently according to pronounciation
Post by: 1995hoo on November 02, 2023, 07:40:11 AM
The county in Georgia is pronounced that way because it's named for Benjamin Taliaferro, a colonel during the Revolution who pronounced it as "Toliver." He was originally from Virginia and settled in Georgia after the war. Insofar as I'm aware, he was not related to Confederate General William Taliaferro, who pronounced his last name the same way. The latter Taliaferro was rector of William & Mary. My brother's first-year dorm there was named for him but, given the current fad of renaming things, now has a new name.

In terms of the OP's query, Buena Vista, Virginia, is another example where the first word is not pronounced as in Spanish. Rio Road in Charlottesville is not pronounced like the city in Brazil; rather, it's pronounced with a long "i," like referring to rye bread with an "o" on the end.
Title: Re: Place names that should be spelt differently according to pronounciation
Post by: GaryV on November 02, 2023, 07:52:35 AM
It was once noted that a phonetical pronunciation of Gratiot Ave (metro Detroit) could not be printed in a family newspaper.

A number of these "mis"-spellings result from a place name that comes from a different language, and eventually the locals who don't speak that language morph the sounds into their own language.

That doesn't explain English place name pronunciations though. How does Derby become "darby"?

Title: Re: Place names that should be spelt differently according to pronounciation
Post by: LilianaUwU on November 02, 2023, 08:00:28 AM
Don't get me started on the botched pronunciations of French names in the US.
Title: Re: Place names that should be spelt differently according to pronounciation
Post by: 1995hoo on November 02, 2023, 08:19:39 AM
Then, of course, there is this town in England that is not named for, nor pronounced like, a part of the male anatomy (https://maps.app.goo.gl/FRFw9W2LqB5gTczd8).
Title: Re: Place names that should be spelled differently according to pronounciation
Post by: kirbykart on November 02, 2023, 08:26:34 AM
Skaneateles, NY
Ischua, NY
Anything "Schuyler"

And one that maybe can't be spelled any differently, but I have to bring up Napoli (nuh-POLE-eye), NY.
Title: Re: Place names that should be spelt differently according to pronounciation
Post by: MATraveler128 on November 02, 2023, 09:22:44 AM
Leicester, Massachusetts
Title: Re: Place names that should be spelt differently according to pronounciation
Post by: kphoger on November 02, 2023, 10:36:01 AM
Texas has plenty.  Here are a couple of ones with a confusing final letter:

Bronte — Pronounced brahnt (neither brohnt nor brahntee.  Should probably be spelled Bront, except that it's named for Charlotte Brontë.

Boerne — Pronounced burnee (not born).  Should probably be spelled Bernie, except that it's named for Ludwig Börne.
Title: Re: Place names that should be spelt differently according to pronounciation
Post by: jlam on November 02, 2023, 11:49:03 AM
Colorado has a lot of them (mostly poor Spanish pronunciations):

Del Norte — Pronounced del nort (not the typical pronunciation of del nortay)

Huerfano — Pronounced warfuhno (not the typical pronunciation of wearfuhno)

Louisville — Pronounced looissvill (not Kentucky's pronunciation)

Monte Vista — Pronounced montuh visstuh (not the typical pronunciation of montay veestuh)

Rio Grande — Pronounced reeoh grand (not the typical pronunciation of reeoh granday)

Of course, that's just a few.
Title: Re: Place names that should be spelt differently according to pronounciation
Post by: kphoger on November 02, 2023, 11:56:25 AM
Quote from: jlam on November 02, 2023, 11:49:03 AM
uh

This is a sound that basically does not exist in Spanish.

Quote from: jlam on November 02, 2023, 11:49:03 AM
Louisville — Pronounced looissvill (not Kentucky's pronunciation)

So how should it be pronounced, then?  If anything, Kentucky's should change.

Quote from: jlam on November 02, 2023, 11:49:03 AM
Rio Grande — Pronounced reeoh grand (not the typical pronunciation of reeoh granday)

I can easily forgive this pronunciation.  It used to bug me a lot, but I'm now at the point that even I say it as reeoh grand.  Even though the river was probably first named the Río Grande by a Spanish-Mexican conquistador, the river is not called that in Mexico.  In Mexico, it's been known as the Rio Bravo for just as long—since the 1500s.  So, in my mind anyway, "Rio Grande" is actually the American name for the river (it never caught on in Mexico), so we can pronounce it however we like.
Title: Re: Place names that should be spelt differently according to pronounciation
Post by: 1995hoo on November 02, 2023, 12:19:44 PM
The references to the Rio Grande prompted me to think of Isle Royale in Michigan. "Royale" is pronounced like "Royal," to the point where I've seen the name of both the island and the national park misspelled as "Isle Royal," presumably by people who heard the name but had not seen it written. I've also heard it mispronounced with "Royale" having the more French-like pronunciation you might expect from seeing the word.

The reference to Louisville made me think of Louisbourg, Nova Scotia. It has a very plain British pronunciation as if it were spelled "Lewisburg." I'm sure that's because the British seized it from the French during the Seven Years' War. The first part, pronouncing "Louis" as "Lewis," doesn't strike me as odd at all, but I find pronouncing "-bourg" as plain "-burg" to be weird.
Title: Re: Place names that should be spelt differently according to pronounciation
Post by: mgk920 on November 02, 2023, 01:05:51 PM
Don't get me started on Wisconsin . . . for example, should 'Waupaca, WI' be spelled 'Waupacka, WI'?

Mike
Title: Re: Place names that should be spelt differently according to pronounciation
Post by: Takumi on November 02, 2023, 07:30:42 PM
Stanton, Virginia (The silent U is a mystery that baffles out of towners to this day)

Mebane, NC is "mebbin", not "me bane"
Title: Re: Place names that should be spelt differently according to pronounciation
Post by: tmoore952 on November 02, 2023, 07:47:25 PM
Who's to say they should be spelt differently? It's probably perfectly OK in the originating language. English has a lot of words and place names derived from other languages.

From my experiences in Iceland, at least there aren't many (if any) US place names derived from that language. That language is a whole other ballgame.
Title: Re: Place names that should be spelt differently according to pronounciation
Post by: golden eagle on November 03, 2023, 12:56:58 AM
Quote from: LilianaUwU on November 02, 2023, 08:00:28 AM
Don't get me started on the botched pronunciations of French names in the US.

Like Versailles (ver-sales), KY or Marseilles (mar-sales), IL.
Title: Re: Place names that should be spelt differently according to pronounciation
Post by: golden eagle on November 03, 2023, 12:58:42 AM
Quote from: 1995hoo on November 02, 2023, 07:40:11 AM
The county in Georgia is pronounced that way because it's named for Benjamin Taliaferro, a colonel during the Revolution who pronounced it as "Toliver." He was originally from Virginia and settled in Georgia after the war. Insofar as I'm aware, he was not related to Confederate General William Taliaferro, who pronounced his last name the same way. The latter Taliaferro was rector of William & Mary. My brother's first-year dorm there was named for him but, given the current fad of renaming things, now has a new name.

In terms of the OP's query, Buena Vista, Virginia, is another example where the first word is not pronounced as in Spanish. Rio Road in Charlottesville is not pronounced like the city in Brazil; rather, it's pronounced with a long "i," like referring to rye bread with an "o" on the end.

Also in Georgia, Houston County is pronounced House-ton, rather than the way the city in Texas is pronounced.
Title: Re: Place names that should be spelt differently according to pronounciation
Post by: golden eagle on November 03, 2023, 01:01:15 AM
Quote from: jlam on November 02, 2023, 11:49:03 AM
Colorado has a lot of them (mostly poor Spanish pronunciations):

Del Norte — Pronounced del nort (not the typical pronunciation of del nortay)


Del Norte County, CA is also pronounced this way.
Title: Re: Place names that should be spelt differently according to pronounciation
Post by: mgk920 on November 03, 2023, 01:13:27 AM
Quote from: golden eagle on November 03, 2023, 12:56:58 AM
Quote from: LilianaUwU on November 02, 2023, 08:00:28 AM
Don't get me started on the botched pronunciations of French names in the US.

Like Versailles (ver-sales), KY or Marseilles (mar-sales), IL.


'Detroit, MI' or the state name of 'Illinois'.

Mike
Title: Re: Place names that should be spelt differently according to pronounciation
Post by: GaryV on November 03, 2023, 08:03:26 AM
Quote from: Takumi on November 02, 2023, 07:30:42 PM
Stanton, Virginia (The silent U is a mystery that baffles out of towners to this day)
The silent U must be a hidden U as well.   :-D
Title: Re: Place names that should be spelt differently according to pronounciation
Post by: kphoger on November 03, 2023, 09:20:35 AM
Quote from: mgk920 on November 03, 2023, 01:13:27 AM
the state name of 'Illinois'.

Quote from: GaryV on November 03, 2023, 08:03:26 AM

Quote from: Takumi on November 02, 2023, 07:30:42 PM
Stanton, Virginia (The silent U is a mystery that baffles out of towners to this day)

The silent U must be a hidden U as well.

(https://img.ifunny.co/images/9443c78b873f5ebd5436e1a14ea4e54781f99299bb9f2ac41378bd7fad8f85f0_1.jpg)
Title: Re: Place names that should be spelt differently according to pronounciation
Post by: Takumi on November 03, 2023, 12:39:27 PM
Quote from: GaryV on November 03, 2023, 08:03:26 AM
Quote from: Takumi on November 02, 2023, 07:30:42 PM
Stanton, Virginia (The silent U is a mystery that baffles out of towners to this day)
The silent U must be a hidden U as well.   :-D

It's actually Staunton, but pronounced Stanton. I was making a joke.
Title: Re: Place names that should be spelt differently according to pronounciation
Post by: LilianaUwU on November 03, 2023, 01:22:40 PM
Quote from: golden eagle on November 03, 2023, 12:56:58 AM
Quote from: LilianaUwU on November 02, 2023, 08:00:28 AM
Don't get me started on the botched pronunciations of French names in the US.

Like Versailles (ver-sales), KY or Marseilles (mar-sales), IL.

(https://i.imgur.com/f9obFBd.png)
Title: Re: Place names that should be spelt differently according to pronounciation
Post by: JayhawkCO on November 03, 2023, 01:42:35 PM
Quote from: jlam on November 02, 2023, 11:49:03 AM
Colorado has a lot of them (mostly poor Spanish pronunciations):

Del Norte — Pronounced del nort (not the typical pronunciation of del nortay)

Huerfano — Pronounced warfuhno (not the typical pronunciation of wearfuhno)

Louisville — Pronounced looissvill (not Kentucky's pronunciation)

Monte Vista — Pronounced montuh visstuh (not the typical pronunciation of montay veestuh)

Rio Grande — Pronounced reeoh grand (not the typical pronunciation of reeoh granday)

Of course, that's just a few.

Those are all mild. Buena Vista is just atrocious.
Title: Re: Place names that should be spelt differently according to pronounciation
Post by: CtrlAltDel on November 03, 2023, 01:51:13 PM
Quote from: golden eagle on November 03, 2023, 12:58:42 AM
Also in Georgia, Houston County is pronounced House-ton, rather than the way the city in Texas is pronounced.

That's the right pronunciation for the spelling though. The Texas one is the outlier here.
Title: Re: Place names that should be spelt differently according to pronounciation
Post by: Rothman on November 03, 2023, 01:53:04 PM
Quote from: CtrlAltDel on November 03, 2023, 01:51:13 PM
Quote from: golden eagle on November 03, 2023, 12:58:42 AM
Also in Georgia, Houston County is pronounced House-ton, rather than the way the city in Texas is pronounced.

That's the right pronunciation for the spelling though. The Texas one is the outlier here.
See also Houston Street in NYC...

*laments Katz's Deli descent into becoming a huge tourist trap*
Title: Re: Place names that should be spelt differently according to pronounciation
Post by: vegas1962 on November 03, 2023, 02:55:34 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on November 02, 2023, 07:40:11 AM
In terms of the OP's query, Buena Vista, Virginia, is another example where the first word is not pronounced as in Spanish. Rio Road in Charlottesville is not pronounced like the city in Brazil; rather, it's pronounced with a long "i," like referring to rye bread with an "o" on the end.

The same thing applies to the northern Michigan town of Mio. Looks like it should be pronounced as "mee-oh" but it's actually pronounced "my-oh."

And I second all the mispronounced names of French origin in and around Detroit alone, not to mention elsewhere in Michigan.
Title: Re: Place names that should be spelt differently according to pronounciation
Post by: 1995hoo on November 03, 2023, 03:03:02 PM
Quote from: CtrlAltDel on November 03, 2023, 01:51:13 PM
Quote from: golden eagle on November 03, 2023, 12:58:42 AM
Also in Georgia, Houston County is pronounced House-ton, rather than the way the city in Texas is pronounced.

That's the right pronunciation for the spelling though. The Texas one is the outlier here.

Then you have General Zod, who as I recall pronounced it "Hoo-stun" in Superman II.
Title: Re: Place names that should be spelt differently according to pronounciation
Post by: roadman65 on November 03, 2023, 03:08:31 PM
Quote from: Rothman on November 03, 2023, 01:53:04 PM
Quote from: CtrlAltDel on November 03, 2023, 01:51:13 PM
Quote from: golden eagle on November 03, 2023, 12:58:42 AM
Also in Georgia, Houston County is pronounced House-ton, rather than the way the city in Texas is pronounced.

That's the right pronunciation for the spelling though. The Texas one is the outlier here.
See also Houston Street in NYC...

*laments Katz's Deli descent into becoming a huge tourist trap*

That's because it's named after someone who pronounced his name as such. Houston, TX is pronounced Hew Stun because Sam Houston, whom the Texas city is named, pronounced his name differently than the man whom NYC honored pronounced his.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Houstoun_(lawyer)

Here is a link to the lawyer that Houston Street is named for.

Title: Re: Place names that should be spelt differently according to pronounciation
Post by: kphoger on November 03, 2023, 03:30:00 PM
Here are some actual ideas:

Tuckson, AZ
Spocain, WA
Title: Re: Place names that should be spelt differently according to pronounciation
Post by: epzik8 on November 03, 2023, 04:00:26 PM
Quote from: kphoger on November 02, 2023, 11:56:25 AM
Quote from: jlam on November 02, 2023, 11:49:03 AM
Louisville — Pronounced looissvill (not Kentucky's pronunciation)
So how should it be pronounced, then?  If anything, Kentucky's should change.

Kentucky's pronunciation is fine.
Title: Re: Place names that should be spelt differently according to pronounciation
Post by: golden eagle on November 03, 2023, 05:57:37 PM
Quote from: vegas1962 on November 03, 2023, 02:55:34 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on November 02, 2023, 07:40:11 AM
In terms of the OP's query, Buena Vista, Virginia, is another example where the first word is not pronounced as in Spanish. Rio Road in Charlottesville is not pronounced like the city in Brazil; rather, it's pronounced with a long "i," like referring to rye bread with an "o" on the end.

The same thing applies to the northern Michigan town of Mio. Looks like it should be pronounced as "mee-oh" but it's actually pronounced "my-oh.
[/quote

Just like Clio, north of Flint.
Title: Re: Place names that should be spelt differently according to pronounciation
Post by: GaryV on November 03, 2023, 06:07:08 PM
Quote from: epzik8 on November 03, 2023, 04:00:26 PM
Quote from: kphoger on November 02, 2023, 11:56:25 AM
Quote from: jlam on November 02, 2023, 11:49:03 AM
Louisville — Pronounced looissvill (not Kentucky's pronunciation)
So how should it be pronounced, then?  If anything, Kentucky's should change.

Kentucky's pronunciation is fine.

Luv-vl
Title: Re: Place names that should be spelt differently according to pronounciation
Post by: Dirt Roads on November 03, 2023, 06:07:42 PM
Quote from: golden eagle on November 03, 2023, 12:58:42 AM
Also in Georgia, Houston County is pronounced House-ton, rather than the way the city in Texas is pronounced.

Quote from: CtrlAltDel on November 03, 2023, 01:51:13 PM
That's the right pronunciation for the spelling though. The Texas one is the outlier here.

In West Virginia, it is spelt "Hugheston".  And yes, in West Virginia it is acceptable to use the Queen's English "spelt" as part of the Appalachian dialect.  Other than folks in the Down East part of North Carolina, you'all hafta use "spelled" to be correct.
Title: Re: Place names that should be spelt differently according to pronounciation
Post by: formulanone on November 03, 2023, 06:14:45 PM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on November 03, 2023, 01:42:35 PM
Those are all mild. Buena Vista is just atrocious.

That's the one which makes me want to charge someone back for taking three years of Spanish in high school.

(Just the same, I could have spent the time butchering French or German.)
Title: Re: Place names that should be spelt differently according to pronounciation
Post by: Rothman on November 03, 2023, 07:47:57 PM
Quote from: roadman65 on November 03, 2023, 03:08:31 PM
Quote from: Rothman on November 03, 2023, 01:53:04 PM
Quote from: CtrlAltDel on November 03, 2023, 01:51:13 PM
Quote from: golden eagle on November 03, 2023, 12:58:42 AM
Also in Georgia, Houston County is pronounced House-ton, rather than the way the city in Texas is pronounced.

That's the right pronunciation for the spelling though. The Texas one is the outlier here.
See also Houston Street in NYC...

*laments Katz's Deli descent into becoming a huge tourist trap*

That's because it's named after someone who pronounced his name as such. Houston, TX is pronounced Hew Stun because Sam Houston, whom the Texas city is named, pronounced his name differently than the man whom NYC honored pronounced his.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Houstoun_(lawyer)

Here is a link to the lawyer that Houston Street is named for.
Baloney.  TX just can't admit that they're wrong.
Title: Re: Place names that should be spelt differently according to pronounciation
Post by: kurumi on November 03, 2023, 08:17:20 PM
Quote from: LilianaUwU on November 02, 2023, 08:00:28 AM
Don't get me started on the botched pronunciations of French names in the US.

If I were starting a new city in Texas, I'd spell it "Longueuil", and tell everyone it's pronounced exactly how it's spelled  :popcorn:
Title: Re: Place names that should be spelt differently according to pronounciation
Post by: LilianaUwU on November 03, 2023, 08:19:19 PM
Quote from: kurumi on November 03, 2023, 08:17:20 PM
Quote from: LilianaUwU on November 02, 2023, 08:00:28 AM
Don't get me started on the botched pronunciations of French names in the US.

If I were starting a new city in Texas, I'd spell it "Longueuil", and tell everyone it's pronounced exactly how it's spelled  :popcorn:
I believe you'd be tried for crimes against humanity if you did so.
Title: Re: Place names that should be spelt differently according to pronounciation
Post by: formulanone on November 03, 2023, 10:20:46 PM
Quote from: LilianaUwU on November 03, 2023, 08:19:19 PM
Quote from: kurumi on November 03, 2023, 08:17:20 PM
Quote from: LilianaUwU on November 02, 2023, 08:00:28 AM
Don't get me started on the botched pronunciations of French names in the US.

If I were starting a new city in Texas, I'd spell it "Longueuil", and tell everyone it's pronounced exactly how it's spelled  :popcorn:
I believe you'd be tried for crimes against humanity if you did so.

Gonna take a crack at it: "long wheel"?
Title: Re: Place names that should be spelt differently according to pronounciation
Post by: The Nature Boy on November 03, 2023, 10:22:09 PM
Quote from: kurumi on November 03, 2023, 08:17:20 PM
Quote from: LilianaUwU on November 02, 2023, 08:00:28 AM
Don't get me started on the botched pronunciations of French names in the US.

If I were starting a new city in Texas, I'd spell it "Longueuil", and tell everyone it's pronounced exactly how it's spelled  :popcorn:

I predict: Lon-gull
Title: Re: Place names that should be spelt differently according to pronounciation
Post by: GaryV on November 04, 2023, 07:20:25 AM
Quote from: Rothman on November 03, 2023, 07:47:57 PM
Baloney.  TX just can't admit that they're wrong.
Bologna?
Title: Re: Place names that should be spelt differently according to pronounciation
Post by: Big John on November 04, 2023, 07:37:08 AM
Quote from: GaryV on November 04, 2023, 07:20:25 AM
Quote from: Rothman on November 03, 2023, 07:47:57 PM
Baloney.  TX just can't admit that they're wrong.
Bologna?

So Sault (Ste Marie) me.
Title: Re: Place names that should be spelt differently according to pronounciation
Post by: webny99 on November 04, 2023, 10:39:58 AM
Quote from: kphoger on November 03, 2023, 03:30:00 PM
Here are some actual ideas:

Tuckson, AZ
Spocain, WA

I am on board with these. Tucson took me years to get right. It's too close to Tuscan (as in Tuscan Garden), and for whatever reason it's almost impossible to differentiate between 'cs' and the more common 'sc' at a quick glance. The latter is also a much more natural pronunciation that blends and rolls off the tongue much easier. Adding a 'k' to make that '-ck' sound stand out would be great.
Title: Re: Place names that should be spelt differently according to pronounciation
Post by: bwana39 on November 04, 2023, 12:37:03 PM
BOGATA (Texas) should be spelled BAGOTA.

B, Short A, G, Long O, T, short a.

Few people read it like aloud like Bogotá is said. They tend to read it as Bo gat a  with both of the a's short.
Title: Re: Place names that should be spelt differently according to pronounciation
Post by: kphoger on November 04, 2023, 01:57:02 PM
Quote from: bwana39 on November 04, 2023, 12:37:03 PM
BOGATA (Texas) should be spelled BAGOTA.

B, Short A, G, Long O, T, short a.

Few people read it like aloud like Bogotá is said. They tend to read it as Bo gat a  with both of the a's short.

Interesting.  Apparently, historians aren't sure if the wrong vowel is due to a misspelling on or a misreading of the original submission.
Title: Re: Place names that should be spelt differently according to pronounciation
Post by: Dirt Roads on November 04, 2023, 03:34:11 PM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on November 03, 2023, 01:42:35 PM
Those are all mild. Buena Vista is just atrocious.

Quote from: formulanone on November 03, 2023, 06:14:45 PM
That's the one which makes me want to charge someone back for taking three years of Spanish in high school.

In Virginia it is worse.  Locals pronounce Buena Vista as "bew-nuh" and they also pronounce Natural Bridge as "natt-chew-lehr".  We also say something similar to that in the Appalachian dialect, but we usually say it is "natch-you-lohr".  I had a hard time making the "lehr" sound correctly, but folks in the James River Gorge still accepted me since the Chesapeake and Ohio was my "home road".
Title: Re: Place names that should be spelt differently according to pronounciation
Post by: Dirt Roads on November 04, 2023, 03:43:48 PM
Exit 85 on the West Virginia Turnpike has a tough one for you'all:  Chelyan is pronounced "sheel-yun".
Title: Re: Place names that should be spelt differently according to pronounciation
Post by: JayhawkCO on November 04, 2023, 04:14:40 PM
Quote from: Dirt Roads on November 04, 2023, 03:34:11 PM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on November 03, 2023, 01:42:35 PM
Those are all mild. Buena Vista is just atrocious.

Quote from: formulanone on November 03, 2023, 06:14:45 PM
That's the one which makes me want to charge someone back for taking three years of Spanish in high school.

In Virginia it is worse.  Locals pronounce Buena Vista as "bew-nuh" and they also pronounce Natural Bridge as "natt-chew-lehr".  We also say something similar to that in the Appalachian dialect, but we usually say it is "natch-you-lohr".  I had a hard time making the "lehr" sound correctly, but folks in the James River Gorge still accepted me since the Chesapeake and Ohio was my "home road".

Assuming your "bew" = "byoo", that's how it's pronounced in Colorado too.
Title: Re: Place names that should be spelt differently according to pronounciation
Post by: webny99 on November 04, 2023, 09:29:59 PM
I say Bway-nah Vis-tah. Is that not right?
Title: Re: Place names that should be spelt differently according to pronounciation
Post by: kphoger on November 04, 2023, 10:17:56 PM
Quote from: webny99 on November 04, 2023, 09:29:59 PM
I say Bway-nah Vis-tah. Is that not right?

Depends on the town, I suppose.

Spanish pronunciation would be something like BWEH-nah BEE-stah

(Spanish e rarely sounds much like English ay, and it's always shorter.)

(Spanish v sounds exactly like Spanish b.  At the beginning of a phrase, the lips are fully closed;  between two vowels, the lips are only half closed.  There's one of each in there.)
Title: Re: Place names that should be spelt differently according to pronounciation
Post by: DandyDan on November 05, 2023, 06:54:49 AM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on November 03, 2023, 01:42:35 PM
Quote from: jlam on November 02, 2023, 11:49:03 AM
Colorado has a lot of them (mostly poor Spanish pronunciations):

Del Norte — Pronounced del nort (not the typical pronunciation of del nortay)

Huerfano — Pronounced warfuhno (not the typical pronunciation of wearfuhno)

Louisville — Pronounced looissvill (not Kentucky's pronunciation)

Monte Vista — Pronounced montuh visstuh (not the typical pronunciation of montay veestuh)

Rio Grande — Pronounced reeoh grand (not the typical pronunciation of reeoh granday)

Of course, that's just a few.

Those are all mild. Buena Vista is just atrocious.
Buena Vista County in Iowa is BOON-a Vista and so is Buena Vista University as well. It makes me wonder why I ever bothered with Spanish class in high school.
Title: Re: Place names that should be spelt differently according to pronounciation
Post by: CtrlAltDel on November 05, 2023, 01:56:22 PM
Quote from: webny99 on November 04, 2023, 10:39:58 AM
Quote from: kphoger on November 03, 2023, 03:30:00 PM
Here are some actual ideas:

Tuckson, AZ
Spocain, WA

I am on board with these. Tucson took me years to get right. It's too close to Tuscan (as in Tuscan Garden), and for whatever reason it's almost impossible to differentiate between 'cs' and the more common 'sc' at a quick glance. The latter is also a much more natural pronunciation that blends and rolls off the tongue much easier. Adding a 'k' to make that '-ck' sound stand out would be great.

Unless, I'm being whooshed, I'm not sure I follow. There is no "ck" sound in Tucson.
Title: Re: Place names that should be spelt differently according to pronounciation
Post by: webny99 on November 05, 2023, 03:04:37 PM
Quote from: CtrlAltDel on November 05, 2023, 01:56:22 PM
Quote from: webny99 on November 04, 2023, 10:39:58 AM
Quote from: kphoger on November 03, 2023, 03:30:00 PM
Here are some actual ideas:

Tuckson, AZ
Spocain, WA

I am on board with these. Tucson took me years to get right. It's too close to Tuscan (as in Tuscan Garden), and for whatever reason it's almost impossible to differentiate between 'cs' and the more common 'sc' at a quick glance. The latter is also a much more natural pronunciation that blends and rolls off the tongue much easier. Adding a 'k' to make that '-ck' sound stand out would be great.

Unless, I'm being whooshed, I'm not sure I follow. There is no "ck" sound in Tucson.

The 'c' makes the 'ck' sound, hence Tuckson.
Title: Re: Place names that should be spelt differently according to pronounciation
Post by: CtrlAltDel on November 05, 2023, 03:14:35 PM
Quote from: webny99 on November 05, 2023, 03:04:37 PM
Quote from: CtrlAltDel on November 05, 2023, 01:56:22 PM
Quote from: webny99 on November 04, 2023, 10:39:58 AM
Quote from: kphoger on November 03, 2023, 03:30:00 PM
Here are some actual ideas:

Tuckson, AZ
Spocain, WA

I am on board with these. Tucson took me years to get right. It's too close to Tuscan (as in Tuscan Garden), and for whatever reason it's almost impossible to differentiate between 'cs' and the more common 'sc' at a quick glance. The latter is also a much more natural pronunciation that blends and rolls off the tongue much easier. Adding a 'k' to make that '-ck' sound stand out would be great.

Unless, I'm being whooshed, I'm not sure I follow. There is no "ck" sound in Tucson.

The 'c' makes the 'ck' sound.

In the actual English pronunciation of Tucson, though, the "c" does not make a "ck" sound, but rather an "ss" sound. It's "too-sahn."
Title: Re: Place names that should be spelt differently according to pronounciation
Post by: vdeane on November 05, 2023, 03:30:20 PM
Quote from: CtrlAltDel on November 05, 2023, 03:14:35 PM
Quote from: webny99 on November 05, 2023, 03:04:37 PM
Quote from: CtrlAltDel on November 05, 2023, 01:56:22 PM
Quote from: webny99 on November 04, 2023, 10:39:58 AM
Quote from: kphoger on November 03, 2023, 03:30:00 PM
Here are some actual ideas:

Tuckson, AZ
Spocain, WA

I am on board with these. Tucson took me years to get right. It's too close to Tuscan (as in Tuscan Garden), and for whatever reason it's almost impossible to differentiate between 'cs' and the more common 'sc' at a quick glance. The latter is also a much more natural pronunciation that blends and rolls off the tongue much easier. Adding a 'k' to make that '-ck' sound stand out would be great.

Unless, I'm being whooshed, I'm not sure I follow. There is no "ck" sound in Tucson.

The 'c' makes the 'ck' sound.

In the actual English pronunciation of Tucson, though, the "c" does not make a "ck" sound, but rather an "ss" sound. It's "too-sahn."
No it doesn't.  The s is already there.  The c is just silent, hence Tucson not being pronounced as it's spelled.
Title: Re: Place names that should be spelt differently according to pronounciation
Post by: CtrlAltDel on November 05, 2023, 03:40:34 PM
Quote from: vdeane on November 05, 2023, 03:30:20 PM
Quote from: CtrlAltDel on November 05, 2023, 03:14:35 PM
Quote from: webny99 on November 05, 2023, 03:04:37 PM
Quote from: CtrlAltDel on November 05, 2023, 01:56:22 PM
Quote from: webny99 on November 04, 2023, 10:39:58 AM
Quote from: kphoger on November 03, 2023, 03:30:00 PM
Here are some actual ideas:

Tuckson, AZ
Spocain, WA

I am on board with these. Tucson took me years to get right. It's too close to Tuscan (as in Tuscan Garden), and for whatever reason it's almost impossible to differentiate between 'cs' and the more common 'sc' at a quick glance. The latter is also a much more natural pronunciation that blends and rolls off the tongue much easier. Adding a 'k' to make that '-ck' sound stand out would be great.

Unless, I'm being whooshed, I'm not sure I follow. There is no "ck" sound in Tucson.

The 'c' makes the 'ck' sound.

In the actual English pronunciation of Tucson, though, the "c" does not make a "ck" sound, but rather an "ss" sound. It's "too-sahn."

No it doesn't.  The s is already there.  The c is just silent, hence Tucson not being pronounced as it's spelled.

I agree that Tucson isn't pronounced like it's spelled, but the "ck" doesn't make it better, which is why I'm wondering if I'm being whooshed.
Title: Re: Place names that should be spelt differently according to pronounciation
Post by: Rothman on November 05, 2023, 08:21:02 PM
We're going from entertaining to excruciating.

Who's got two thumbs and is all for Tuckson?  Rothman.
Title: Re: Place names that should be spelt differently according to pronounciation
Post by: US 89 on November 05, 2023, 09:02:49 PM
That's ecks-ckruciating to you.
Title: Re: Place names that should be spelt differently according to pronounciation
Post by: Rothman on November 05, 2023, 10:40:23 PM
Quote from: US 89 on November 05, 2023, 09:02:49 PM
That's ecks-ckruciating to you.
Let's make that change, too.
Title: Re: Place names that should be spelt differently according to pronounciation
Post by: webny99 on November 06, 2023, 08:01:24 AM
Quote from: CtrlAltDel on November 05, 2023, 03:40:34 PM
Quote from: vdeane on November 05, 2023, 03:30:20 PM
Quote from: CtrlAltDel on November 05, 2023, 03:14:35 PM
Quote from: webny99 on November 05, 2023, 03:04:37 PM

The 'c' makes the 'ck' sound.

In the actual English pronunciation of Tucson, though, the "c" does not make a "ck" sound, but rather an "ss" sound. It's "too-sahn."

No it doesn't.  The s is already there.  The c is just silent, hence Tucson not being pronounced as it's spelled.

I agree that Tucson isn't pronounced like it's spelled, but the "ck" doesn't make it better, which is why I'm wondering if I'm being whooshed.

On second thought... I may have overthought this and taken kphoger too seriously.

Both Tuckson and Spokain emphasize the mistaken pronunciation, not the actual one.
Title: Re: Place names that should be spelt differently according to pronounciation
Post by: MikieTimT on November 06, 2023, 09:59:15 AM
Arkansas...
Title: Re: Place names that should be spelt differently according to pronounciation
Post by: kphoger on November 06, 2023, 11:55:50 AM
Quote from: webny99 on November 06, 2023, 08:01:24 AM
On second thought... I may have overthought this and taken kphoger too seriously.

Both Tuckson and Spokain emphasize the mistaken pronunciation, not the actual one.

Correct.  Although I actually typed "Spocain", but same difference.

Should be [not]Two Sonn[/not] and Spocann.
Title: Re: Place names that should be spelt differently according to pronounciation
Post by: mgk920 on November 06, 2023, 11:58:43 AM
Quote from: CtrlAltDel on November 05, 2023, 01:56:22 PM
Quote from: webny99 on November 04, 2023, 10:39:58 AM
Quote from: kphoger on November 03, 2023, 03:30:00 PM
Here are some actual ideas:

Tuckson, AZ
Spocain, WA

I am on board with these. Tucson took me years to get right. It's too close to Tuscan (as in Tuscan Garden), and for whatever reason it's almost impossible to differentiate between 'cs' and the more common 'sc' at a quick glance. The latter is also a much more natural pronunciation that blends and rolls off the tongue much easier. Adding a 'k' to make that '-ck' sound stand out would be great.

Unless, I'm being whooshed, I'm not sure I follow. There is no "ck" sound in Tucson.

'TOO-san', 'Toosan'

:cool:

Mike
Title: Re: Place names that should be spelt differently according to pronounciation
Post by: golden eagle on November 09, 2023, 11:14:10 PM
I just recently found out that Peabody, MA is pronounced Pea-ba-dee. I'll think of that pronunciation when I think of the Peabody Hotel in Memphis or watching Mr. Peabody & Sherman on the Rocky & Bullwinkle cartoons.
Title: Re: Place names that should be spelt differently according to pronounciation
Post by: Brandon on November 12, 2023, 09:36:26 AM
Quote from: Big John on November 02, 2023, 06:47:50 AM
Worcester MA

Exactly.  If you're going to pronounce it "Woostah", spell it "Woostah", not wor-ce-ster (and for God's sake, pronounce the frigging r).
Title: Re: Place names that should be spelt differently according to pronounciation
Post by: hotdogPi on November 12, 2023, 09:39:34 AM
Quote from: Brandon on November 12, 2023, 09:36:26 AM
(and for God's sake, pronounce the frigging r).

This is dependent on local accent. Personally, I don't drop R at the end of words, so I pronounce the final letter in Worcester.

If all spoken by the same person, Wooster OH, Worcester MA, and Worcester UK should all be pronounced identically, notwithstanding your proposal to change it.
Title: Re: Place names that should be spelt differently according to pronounciation
Post by: Rothman on November 12, 2023, 09:55:17 AM
Quote from: 1 on November 12, 2023, 09:39:34 AM
Quote from: Brandon on November 12, 2023, 09:36:26 AM
(and for God's sake, pronounce the frigging r).

This is dependent on local accent. Personally, I don't drop R at the end of words, so I pronounce the final letter in Worcester.

If all spoken by the same person, Wooster OH, Worcester MA, and Worcester UK should all be pronounced identically, notwithstanding your proposal to change it.
I had a teacher in elementary school in MA that would take all the unpronounced Rs and stick them in other places, such as when he's ask us to "draw(er) a picture."  Found the mixture of both not pronouncing and adding Rs to be somewhat rare in MA.
Title: Re: Place names that should be spelt differently according to pronounciation
Post by: CtrlAltDel on November 12, 2023, 10:49:34 AM
Quote from: webny99 on November 06, 2023, 08:01:24 AM
On second thought... I may have overthought this and taken kphoger too seriously.

Both Tuckson and Spokain emphasize the mistaken pronunciation, not the actual one.

Ah, so I was being whooshed. Now back to your regularly scheduled thread. 
Title: Re: Place names that should be spelt differently according to pronounciation
Post by: Brandon on November 12, 2023, 05:23:11 PM
Quote from: 1 on November 12, 2023, 09:39:34 AM
Quote from: Brandon on November 12, 2023, 09:36:26 AM
(and for God's sake, pronounce the frigging r).

This is dependent on local accent. Personally, I don't drop R at the end of words, so I pronounce the final letter in Worcester.

If all spoken by the same person, Wooster OH, Worcester MA, and Worcester UK should all be pronounced identically, notwithstanding your proposal to change it.

They'd all sound different.  One is obviously "Woo-ster".  The other two, to a speaker of Inland North, look like "wor-ces-ster".
Title: Re: Place names that should be spelt differently according to pronounciation
Post by: SD Mapman on November 12, 2023, 05:46:15 PM
Quote from: LilianaUwU on November 02, 2023, 08:00:28 AM
Don't get me started on the botched pronunciations of French names in the US.

Since you're from Quebec, we won't make fun of you when we ask how to pronounce Pierre, SD (we make fun of everyone else).
Honest question, how would you pronounce Belle Fourche? We pronounce it like "Bell Foosh" which I think is closer to the correct French but I never took any French in school.

My personal annoyance: Norfolk, NE (should be Norfork, started out as "North Fork" (of some sort) but the post office misread it into Norfolk and they never bothered to fix it).
Title: Re: Place names that should be spelt differently according to pronounciation
Post by: Urban Prairie Schooner on November 12, 2023, 08:31:43 PM
Natchitoches - pronounced "NACK-uh-tish"
Title: Re: Place names that should be spelt differently according to pronounciation
Post by: freebrickproductions on November 22, 2023, 09:58:00 PM
Quote from: SD Mapman on November 12, 2023, 05:46:15 PM
My personal annoyance: Norfolk, NE (should be Norfork, started out as "North Fork" (of some sort) but the post office misread it into Norfolk and they never bothered to fix it).

Just like Arab, AL.
Title: Re: Place names that should be spelt differently according to pronounciation
Post by: 7/8 on November 23, 2023, 03:02:01 PM
Quote from: Rothman on November 12, 2023, 09:55:17 AM
I had a teacher in elementary school in MA that would take all the unpronounced Rs and stick them in other places, such as when he's ask us to "draw(er) a picture."  Found the mixture of both not pronouncing and adding Rs to be somewhat rare in MA.

This is called "intrusive R (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linking_and_intrusive_R)". I hear used by English people on TV.
Quote from: WikipediaThe phenomenon of intrusive R is an overgeneralizing reinterpretation of linking R into an r-insertion rule that affects any word that ends in the non-high vowels /ə/, /ɪə/, /ɑː/, or /ɔː/; when such a word is closely followed by another word beginning in a vowel sound, an /r/ is inserted between them, even when no final /r/ was historically present. For example, the phrase bacteria in it would be pronounced /bækˈtɪəriərˌɪnɪt/. The epenthetic /r/ can be inserted to prevent hiatus (two consecutive vowel sounds).