Another Issaac Newton idea from our wonderful leaders at the LADOT to completely close vehicle traffic through the park. What are your thoughts?
https://www.msn.com/en-us/travel/news/it-s-bold-l-a-moves-to-close-wilshire-boulevard-through-macarthur-park/ar-BB1pJl7g?ocid=msedgntp&pc=DCTS&cvid=ecbb8f7ed3684437adbfe2ce9a1aa74e&ei=23#comments
Another article: https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/la-s-2-5-million-plan-to-close-road-in-macarthur-park-raises-local-eyebrows/ar-BB1pKeNY?ocid=BingNewsSearch&cvid=64568674214e44bbbb68925e4b7e61ff&ei=15
Utterly stupid and pointless.
Somebody left a cake out in the rain.
I'm aware that Wilshire used to end at the park until 1934. While I'm indifferent to whether or not Wilshire is closed to traffic I don't really get how it is "bold." Getting rid of the road doesn't magically fix the problems the park has.
I mostly think of MacAuthur Park (and visited it) in relation to the scenes it featured in Falling Down.
Tunnel.
A tunnel isn't going to cost $2,500,000.
From a crime and safety perspective, simply closing Wilshire isn't going to do much. This is a dangerous neighborhood in an increasingly dangerous city. There are a lot of issues beyond the scope of traffic that do need to be addressed first to improve the situation.
From a traffic perspective, I don't believe that this is going to be the disaster that some people upthread portend. As it is, Wilshire already ends at Grand, so it is really only accessible to about half of the Downtown area. Traffic on Wilshire will have to turn on Figueroa, Flower, Hope, or Grand to reach 4th, 6th, 7th or 9th. If they have to turn off Wilshire anyway, they might as well do so at Park View to reach either 6th or 7th.
Fortunately, Park View is quite wide. If the diagonal parking were replaced with parallel parking, the street could be two lanes of traffic in each direction. Two lanes of Wilshire turning left onto two lanes of Park View and then two lanes of 6th into Downtown. (Right lane right turn only, left lane left or right). One lane of Wilshire turning right onto Park View and at 7th, the left lane will turn left and the right lane will turn right.
Once Wilshire is broken, the section between Grand and Alvarado will naturally be far less busy so there would be fewer traffic problems there. Once people have turned onto 6th or 7th via Park View, there is little reason that they would head back to Wilshire, unless their destination were on that 1.5 mile section of street. I can see a need for a spot widening of Alvarado, so that cars can make a left onto 6th.
Will this impact traffic? Yes. Will it be absolutely horrendous? Given L.A.'s numerous other problems, this is workable.
Make the city festive apparently. But there's more to this that we cannot see yet.
What about narrowing the street by removing the street parking, And then depressing the Road a little bit and placing a part cap over it? I mean houston made tunnels. Why can't LA do it
Quote from: Plutonic Panda on July 11, 2024, 02:22:40 PMWhat about narrowing the street by removing the street parking, And then depressing the Road a little bit and placing a part cap over it? I mean houston made tunnels. Why can't LA do it
There are train tunnels underneath Wilshire on the west side of the park, so lowering the road might not be an option
Quote from: Rothman on July 10, 2024, 11:29:39 PMSomebody left a cake out in the rain.
That was inevitable.
Quote from: Road Hog on July 12, 2024, 02:23:05 AMQuote from: Rothman on July 10, 2024, 11:29:39 PMSomebody left a cake out in the rain.
That was inevitable.
I was going to eat that cake, but now it's all wet and I don't think I want any.
Quote from: Rothman on July 10, 2024, 11:29:39 PMSomebody left a cake out in the rain.
Jurassic Park is frightening in the dark
All the dinosaurs are running wild
Someone shut the fence off in the rain
I wanted to wait until all the gnashing and wailing was done before commenting.
Think about Wilshire at this point. It isn't a major thoroughfare. If you want to cross the city, you're either on the Santa Monica Freeway or Olympic (which is MUCH faster). The local users are primarily transit users. The city wants to encourage people to use transit, and one way to do that is to make driving less attractive. Thus, this proposal.
If I were doing it, I'd make one little mod: Two BUS ONLY BRT lanes through the park. No cars. This makes transit even more attractive, and serves the resident population that uses the buses better.
Lots of people drive through the stretch. I'm one of them. 6th, 3rd, 7th and James Wood can all get backed up. This kind of mentality of oh it's just this one section it's not a big deal will just lead to more of this nonsense. They've talked about closing Hollywood between orange and highland before. It's just one stretch. There alternatives like Franklin, Hawthorn, and Sunset.
There are alternatives, and people do adapt.
Quote from: cahwyguy on July 13, 2024, 07:03:18 PMThere are alternatives, and people do adapt.
That doesn't mean it has to be closed and to me that's not a valid reason. This is just part of a crusade to eliminate as much car infrastructure as possible. This has nothing to do with reconnecting a park that's already heretically by a tunnel as is.
There's also other alternatives to increase connectivity, then just closing this road that I use a lot and so do a lot of other people.
Quote from: Plutonic Panda on July 13, 2024, 08:22:49 PMThat doesn't mean it has to be closed and to me that's not a valid reason. This is just part of a crusade to eliminate as much car infrastructure as possible. This has nothing to do with reconnecting a park that's already heretically by a tunnel as is.
"already heretically by a tunnel" What does that even mean?
First and foremost, it's not all about you, and your potential inconvenience. Often, from your posts, you make it seem that way. It's about the specific community in that area; the area bisected by the park. Quoting from the original article: "The $2.5-million effort in MacArthur Park is mostly covered by a federal grant. It's part of a larger campaign to redress the harm caused by building roads that fractured communities, often cutting through low-income or already segregated areas."
Wilshire did not originally go through the park -- read the Kevin Roderick book. So the issue is how to make that community better. THat's a community that tends to be a park desert, other than MacArthur. So increasing the greenbelt does make life better for that neighborhood.
I can cite numerous examples of highway projects that have divided or destroyed low income neighborhoods, all for the convenience of the traveler (often who is higher income). Hollenbeck Park was hurt by the construction of I-5, Route 60, and I-10 in that area. West Adams by the I-10. Barrio Logan in San Diego. The impacts on Oakland from I-980. I just found an article on the impacts on the Asian American community from the western half of the Stockton Crosstown Freeway.
So it's not all about you, unless you are living on the edge of the park. Commuting through the area? There are other routes.
Quote from: Plutonic Panda on July 13, 2024, 08:22:49 PMThere's also other alternatives to increase connectivity, then just closing this road that I use a lot and so do a lot of other people.
Again, "I use a lot". The concern is the impact on the neighborhood.
But, if you don't like it, it is in the early planning stages. From the article: "City leaders announced the first step Tuesday toward eliminating vehicles on a less than half-mile stretch of Wilshire Boulevard bisecting MacArthur Park. Over the coming year, planners will seek community input, draft environmental documents and test closures in a bid to permanently shut down that portion of road."
Provide that community input. They are legally required to address it in the DEIR.
So this is a problem mostly because you use Wilshire through the park?
Maybe they'll consider just closing it to traffic on weekends or other off-peak times. That's what SF did with JFK Drive through Golden Gate Park (though they later closed it 24/7 permanently, post-COVID). Downside is you still have to maintain the road as opposed to replacing it, but that can be a good thing: people can use the hard, maintained surface for walking, biking, rollerskating, etc.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on July 14, 2024, 12:52:39 PMSo this is a problem mostly because you use Wilshire through the park?
It's like you guys are not even bothering to read what I post. I clearly said I use Wilshire Park as well to go and walk around.
And how does the road being closed to traffic affect your ability to walk around the park?
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on July 14, 2024, 12:52:39 PMSo this is a problem mostly because you use Wilshire through the park?
OK, I went back and reread my post. I wasn't clear enough. I actually do use this park. This park, Echo Park, Griffith, Runyon, and The recently redone Los Angeles State Park are parks that I frequent. But that doesn't mean anything.
This park is already connected by a tunnel. I don't know why that is unclear to that other guy who's asking what do I mean by that? I think it's fairly obvious what that means.
And a big reason why I want Wilshire to remain open because I do use it a lot. I'm not the only one either. How often do you visit MacArthur Park? Because I'll be the first to tell you if you haven't been filled in, Removing Wilshire Boulevard to the park, won't even begin to scratch the surface of the problems that place is plagued by.
In fact, if anything, I think you could make the case, the park would be safer by keeping the road open so more people are going through it but removing street parking so the park is more visible. Now that I would support. When I go to MacArthur Park, I don't even park my car there because that is the only place other than San Francisco where I've had my car broken into multiple times. I take the red line to the MacArthur Park when I go there.
Every time we have this conversation about roads and connectivity, you act like it's just some sort of selfish act that I have where I want the road open for me. It really just seems like you're playing Devils Advocate to just argue with me.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on July 14, 2024, 02:59:42 PMAnd how does the road being closed to traffic affect your ability to walk around the park?
OK, I'm not even gonna respond to post like this dude because that doesn't make any sense. Where did I say it's going to affect my ability to walk around the park? It's not going to affect my ability to walk around the park. My ability to walk around the park is just fine. There's this magical thing called a tunnel, the connects both sides of the park. As I said in the reply that I posted while you were replying to me, One of the biggest issues with the park, security and safety.
This could be solved by a number of ways, One of which I've always thought street parking should be removed as I said in another one of my post. Extend the sidewalks or the park a little bit to fill-in the park a little closer to the road and narrow the road a little little bit, but keep it four lanes.
My other idea is a full-time ranger station to park rangers there. They do this at scissor park in Oklahoma City.
Now this also goes into a deeper conversation that teeters On the edge of getting political so I want to be careful how I phrase this but I'm sure you know LA has a huge homeless problem, And there are other issues that need to be addressed because it stands MacArthur Park is a pretty large homeless encampment a lot of areas.
There's a running joke around the area that you could catch a fish in the park and catch every STD known to man if you ate it.
You're the one that brought up the walking element. I was trying to understand how what was being negatively impacted by Wilshire being closed. I'm still confused why you brought that part up at all given your latest reply.
I eluded to the last time I visited MacArthur Park above. Yes, I would agree that crime is by far the issue and closing Wilshire doesn't do much (if anything) to affect that.
I don't know, up my way in Fresno there are a lot of historically important roads tied US 99 closing (being razed) because of the High Speed Rail (and yes, I did use them regularly). Rather than complain on the forum, I went out to take a crap ton of photos and used them as a basis to start a dedicated US 99 page. Much of the Fresno Road Meet was also comprised of the roads that the HSR is taking.
Quote from: cahwyguy on July 14, 2024, 12:26:49 PMQuote from: Plutonic Panda on July 13, 2024, 08:22:49 PMThat doesn't mean it has to be closed and to me that's not a valid reason. This is just part of a crusade to eliminate as much car infrastructure as possible. This has nothing to do with reconnecting a park that's already heretically by a tunnel as is.
"already heretically by a tunnel" What does that even mean?
First and foremost, it's not all about you, and your potential inconvenience. Often, from your posts, you make it seem that way. It's about the specific community in that area; the area bisected by the park. Quoting from the original article: "The $2.5-million effort in MacArthur Park is mostly covered by a federal grant. It's part of a larger campaign to redress the harm caused by building roads that fractured communities, often cutting through low-income or already segregated areas."
Wilshire did not originally go through the park -- read the Kevin Roderick book. So the issue is how to make that community better. THat's a community that tends to be a park desert, other than MacArthur. So increasing the greenbelt does make life better for that neighborhood.
I can cite numerous examples of highway projects that have divided or destroyed low income neighborhoods, all for the convenience of the traveler (often who is higher income). Hollenbeck Park was hurt by the construction of I-5, Route 60, and I-10 in that area. West Adams by the I-10. Barrio Logan in San Diego. The impacts on Oakland from I-980. I just found an article on the impacts on the Asian American community from the western half of the Stockton Crosstown Freeway.
So it's not all about you, unless you are living on the edge of the park. Commuting through the area? There are other routes.
Quote from: Plutonic Panda on July 13, 2024, 08:22:49 PMThere's also other alternatives to increase connectivity, then just closing this road that I use a lot and so do a lot of other people.
Again, "I use a lot". The concern is the impact on the neighborhood.
But, if you don't like it, it is in the early planning stages. From the article: "City leaders announced the first step Tuesday toward eliminating vehicles on a less than half-mile stretch of Wilshire Boulevard bisecting MacArthur Park. Over the coming year, planners will seek community input, draft environmental documents and test closures in a bid to permanently shut down that portion of road."
Provide that community input. They are legally required to address it in the DEIR.
So this logic can apply to so many places so how many roads are we going to close then?
Probably leaves them opened to being targeted for closure given the current stance by Los Angeles to push transit options. That doesn't they "will be" though.
I feel like this whole thread would be my non-sarcastic answer for this thread:
https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=35009.0
I brought up the walking element because I'm saying it's not an issue issue walking between both sides of the park and Wilshire is not dividing the park so they claim it is to warrant closing the road that a lot of people including me use. I will absolutely do my best to attend these public meetings. If I can voice, my opinion, and I will be interested to hear what other people have to say.
There doesn't seem to be any real thought, being put in to just dismantling the cities grid system, and shutting down parts and pieces of a road here and there because there's alternatives which is always the typical excuse with no plan on how to actually improve mobility in the city. Focus on getting actual transit projects done. They closed the lane of La Brea down each way for a bus lane which I could've lived with, but all they did was re-stripe the road. I take that from time to time down to Wilshire in the improvements are negligible at best.
Council members just wanna play the anti-Car crap and they really don't even seem like they're doing it right they're just trying to be politicians pandering and nothing more.
So yes, I am going to complain on this forum When stuff like this pops up. We've had this discussion before Max. Talk to a moderator and then they can tell me to stop and I'll stop. I do more than complain on this forum. I post a lot of updates and I cheer a lot of projects on. I also post a lot of updates and support a lot of transit projects in and around LA.
So either stop saying that I do nothing but complain or go talk to a moderator. I don't know what to tell you about that one.
What makes you think I want to run to a moderator? You're the one getting spun up because their logic is being questioned.
To me threads like this are just entertainment on an otherwise boring day (like today). If you don't like being questioned or having people disagree with you then perhaps reconsider the tact of what you post?
I feel it is fair to ask at this point, do you expect universal agreement when you post on this board? The way you respond to most of us tends to read as though you are surprised when there is dissent not in your favor.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on July 14, 2024, 03:59:33 PMWhat makes you think I want to run to a moderator? You're the one getting spun up because their logic is being questioned.
To me threads like this are just entertainment on an otherwise boring day (like today). If you don't like being questioned or having people disagree with you then perhaps reconsider the tact of what you post?
I feel it is fair to ask at this point, do you expect universal agreement when you post on this board? The way you respond to most of us tends to read as though you are surprised when there is dissent not in your favor.
I'm not spun up or mad man. I'm voicing my opinion. I disagree with this proposal. In my initial post, I don't even believe I gave my opinion. I just asked what other people thought. Then I gave my opinion and here you are for the second time saying I just sit here and complain and be selfish because I wanna drive wherever I want and have road plowing through wherever.
And you don't need to justify why you're engaging in a conversation with me. I'm not asking you to play moderator. It just seems like from time to time you try to call me out as if I'm spewing mindless banter, and that I really don't appreciate because it's not true.
Where in any of the above did I call you selfish?
While I get that you don't appreciate me not agreeing with you, what do expect? The things you choose to usually get upset about usually aren't exactly worth the outrage. This very topic is a perfect example of a largely minor road closure being blown way out of proportion.
To be clear, I'm not really seeing a point to closing Wilshire through the park. All the same, I don't think this is worth the outrage you seem to think it deserves.
Your arguments against this project are largely from a stance of it inconveniences you in a minor way. How do you expect to go to a public hearing and get anyone to listen to you if that is all you have?
I don't know, the "I'm outraged" argument is so soft that I usually dismiss outright. Usually all attempts to reach people with that stance/mindset are a futile effort. I feel as though you'd be better off not sharing the outrage stories unless you had a more coherently form counter argument.
On Facebook and mainstream social media outrage gets a lot of attention. On forums like this, it just gets picked apart.
Max, I don't care if you agree with me or not. I don't get what I'm saying that makes you think I'm upset you don't agree with me.
You can quit the back and forth with me at any time you like.
All the same, if you insist on putting words in my mouth I'm always going to be game for a retort. I don't need a moderator to clarify things when you accuse me of things I didn't say.
Adding a bit of perspective: We're talking about 1/2 mile here. Not an entire freeway. Not a large segment of road.
They also appear to be talking about removing the road in that stretch. Translation: Turn it back into planted green space, vs. heat-reflective asphalt. So although there is a tunnel that connects the two parts, green space is different. Green space is also safer than a tunnel for people using it.
As for the inconvenience: People do get used to it, for short segments. They did a road diet on Wilbur near me, adding bike lanes and removing a lane. People bitched and moaned for about a year, and now everyone is used to it. People will get used to it, and those that need to make time will use other streets, notably 3rd, 6th, 7th, Olympic (which used to be the state highway), and Beverly.
^^^ again where does that logic end?
Let me remind people that Wilshire was cut through Westlake Park (its name at the time) about 90 years ago. The idea that this harmed a neighborhood in a way that can be remedied now, 90 years later, is absurd. It's not the same community. It's completely different people who live there now, and they've lived with Wilshire Blvd passing through the park for as long as they can remember. It's no different from Wilshire Blvd passing through any other four block long area, except for the fact that there's a park there. The only rational justification for this project is that it would improve the park, not the neighborhood. Since there are already two ped tunnels under it, if they need better connectivity between the two parts of the park, they could add a footbridge.
Sure, drivers can adapt by using different roads, as they did in the 1920s when they'd jog down onto 7th St. (That's what old maps show as the natural extension of Wilshire into downtown.) But people who live there have adapted to the presence of Wilshire, too, as they have to every major thoroughfare built anywhere in any urban area.
And we're not exactly talking about an eight-lane freeway making it nearly impossible to get to the other side on foot.
I would add that in Westside L.A. it is common for there to be a larger volume of "major" streets, but each is narrower in the sections closer to Downtown, but fewer streets and wider streets as you get closer to the Ocean.
So there are only 5 main thoroughfares crossing the 405 in the northern part of the Westside: Sunset, Wilshire, Santa Monica, Olympic, Pico. The traffic from there (in particular the first three) splits off into more thoroughfares by the time we reach Crescent Heights: Hollywood, Fountain, Melrose, Beverly, 3rd, 6th, and San Vicente are added to the mix. As you move even further east there are more options, particularly around Wilshire. Beverly splits its traffic between Temple and 1st. 7th, 8th, and to a lesser degree 9th and 11th are decent local through streets east of Vermont.
Quote from: Plutonic Panda on July 14, 2024, 03:07:35 PMThere's a running joke around the area that you could catch a fish in the park and catch every STD known to man if you ate it.
What are you people doing to those poor fish that you're catching STDs from them?
Quote from: Scott5114 on July 15, 2024, 12:13:15 PMQuote from: Plutonic Panda on July 14, 2024, 03:07:35 PMThere's a running joke around the area that you could catch a fish in the park and catch every STD known to man if you ate it.
What are you people doing to those poor fish that you're catching STDs from them?
I mean, it just starts out with a casual walk you know like any other day and you see a fish that you just start talking to and like and start to fall in love with and then just it picks up from there. Then you get a phone call the next day and you should get tested.
Why am I getting South Park Fish Sticks episode vibes from the forum today?
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on July 15, 2024, 03:09:58 PMWhy am I getting South Park Fish Sticks episode vibes from the forum today?
My cover for not wanting Wilshire to be closed has been exposed. Damn it.
Sitting in traffic now seeing how much traffic moves through this stretch of Wilshire and they want to close it. lol Jesus
This closure proposal is so minor in the grand scheme of things. If traffic ends up being that bad, they can change 7th Street and 6th Street into one-way couplets around the park.
Quote from: SeriesE on July 15, 2024, 08:52:28 PMThis closure proposal is so minor in the grand scheme of things. If traffic ends up being that bad, they can change 7th Street and 6th Street into one-way couplets around the park.
Should close those too to reconnect the neighborhoods. ;)
This is really taking a turn for the FreewayJim style alarmism now isn't it?
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on July 15, 2024, 09:10:40 PMThis is really taking a turn for the FreewayJim style alarmism now isn't it?
Somebody needs to give the actual FreewayJim alarmist the John Cena treatment.
Quote from: Rothman on July 15, 2024, 09:12:10 PMQuote from: Max Rockatansky on July 15, 2024, 09:10:40 PMThis is really taking a turn for the FreewayJim style alarmism now isn't it?
Somebody needs to give the actual FreewayJim alarmist the John Cena treatment.
He had one post removed about a week ago. It had something to do with a kid peddling a bike down a highway. The rare admin action surprised the hell out of me.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on July 15, 2024, 09:10:40 PMThis is really taking a turn for the FreewayJim style alarmism now isn't it?
I mean, it's fair game, Max. We need to remove every freeway and road that is ever disconnected a neighborhood I'm sure there's an alternative nearby. No big deal.
The way you're acting does serve as a motivator to be more in favor of closure projects like the one on Wilshire. I'm sure it isn't helping your credibility with others when they keep seeing you top post rants on this board.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on July 15, 2024, 11:09:00 PMThe way you're acting does serve as a motivator to be more in favor of closure projects like the one on Wilshire. I'm sure it isn't helping your credibility with others when they keep seeing you top post rants on this board.
And I'm just OK with that. If the community at large really wants this section of the road closed then I support with the community wants at the end of the day. I don't wish to be a dictator. But it is my opinion this road shouldn't be closed. I don't know how to say it where it doesn't sound like a rant, I guess
It's also funny like one of the first comments on this thread was "utterly stupid and pointless" And you conveniently skip that comment and the fact that I virtually gave no opinion at all in my original comment other than just ask what people thought, Only to turn around and then shit on me when I do give my comments and explain that I am somewhat passionate about this particular issue and this stretch of road. I know we've kind of butted heads in the past, same with CAHWYGUY, But I'm genuinely baffled at just how adamant you are about carrying on with me on this issue.
Again, again, if you don't agree with me, that's fine. I'm not expecting everyone to agree with me. I'm just really curious what your angle is here. At least when I argue with people like Rothman About getting my tunnel built under Syracuse, I can see where they're coming from and why they are taking the position they are.
But man, I really feel like if we were back in the days where we could have a street dual, You would've challenged me to one by now. lol
And yet you somehow missed that I've said numerous times that I didn't think the closure here is necessary. It would also be true to say that I don't think this closure is worth the battle fighting against.
I also said what my angle was yesterday. You obviously missed all that when you were busy putting words in my mouth. Maybe actually read what I actually wrote next time?
So yes, I don't understand the angst at hand. This is such a small closure in the grand scheme of things and not the portend of an onslaught of forcible urbanism. You clearly disagree but I can't help but feel it is largely because you stand to be nominally inconvenienced.
Quote from: Plutonic Panda on July 15, 2024, 08:53:03 PMQuote from: SeriesE on July 15, 2024, 08:52:28 PMThis closure proposal is so minor in the grand scheme of things. If traffic ends up being that bad, they can change 7th Street and 6th Street into one-way couplets around the park.
Should close those too to reconnect the neighborhoods. ;)
Can't have them pushing buttons and waiting for Walk signals. Pretty soon they'll be speaking different languages on the two sides of Wilshire.
Similar closures have occurred in other cities. They all have survived. It is easier in a city since the detouring is a very short distance. And it is easier if they make certain improvements to make the turning along Park View easier.
Some examples: 6th Ave, 7th Ave, Lenox, St Nicholas, AC Powell are north south streets that are blocked by Central Park in NYC. Now the park has been there for a long time, but you used to be able to drive on the park roads and it provided a mini-expressway (limited traffic signals) to connect Midtwon to Harlem. About 15 years ago, the roads were closed to cars forcing detours onto other avenues. Traffic yes, but no catastrophe.
5th Ave is blocked on its south by Washington Square park. While this is an old arrangement, it is illustrative to see how a busy street can have traffic redirected onto other streets (like Broadway) to continue south. Heck, Broadway's transformation and pedestrianization further uptown is also illustrative.
Public Square in Cleveland has gone through many iterations. Roads through the park open, all roads closed, and then the current setup that allows only buses to go through E-W, and N-S traffic has to go around.
Security concerns in Washington DC has closed E Street and Pennsylvania Ave around the White House. These are major streets with a lot of traffic and the diversions to Constitution or H and I streets are extremely busy. But it is still manageable as people are aware of the closure. For all intents and purpose, the White House grounds acts like a very large park. Again it is manageable.
and a bit south, Mile Square Park in Fountain Valley cut off through access for Heil Avenue and Ward Street. Traffic just detoured around the park.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on July 15, 2024, 11:40:05 PMAnd yet you somehow missed that I've said numerous times that I didn't think the closure here is necessary. It would also be true to say that I don't think this closure is worth the battle fighting against.
I also said what my angle was yesterday. You obviously missed all that when you were busy putting words in my mouth. Maybe actually read what I actually wrote next time?
So yes, I don't understand the angst at hand. This is such a small closure in the grand scheme of things and not the portend of an onslaught of forcible urbanism. You clearly disagree but I can't help but feel it is largely because you stand to be nominally inconvenienced.
Alright fair enough.
Quote from: SeriesE on July 16, 2024, 01:36:48 AMand a bit south, Mile Square Park in Fountain Valley cut off through access for Heil Avenue and Ward Street. Traffic just detoured around the park.
True. It seems that every E-W arterial in LA/OC south of Rosecrans and north of 22 freeway (other than Katella/Willow/Sepulveda) is blocked at some point along its journey and traffic just manages to go around.
Wilshire is very busy. But we are not talking about the closure of a freeway here and the traffic maladies that will come. Traffic will eventually adjust and fortunately there are a lot of parallel options.