Wilshire Boulevard in MacArthur Park

[Max Rockatansky]

You're the one that brought up the walking element.  I was trying to understand how what was being negatively impacted by Wilshire being closed.  I'm still confused why you brought that part up at all given your latest reply.

I eluded to the last time I visited MacArthur Park above.  Yes, I would agree that crime is by far the issue and closing Wilshire doesn't do much (if anything) to affect that.

I don't know, up my way in Fresno there are a lot of historically important roads tied US 99 closing (being razed) because of the High Speed Rail (and yes, I did use them regularly).  Rather than complain on the forum, I went out to take a crap ton of photos and used them as a basis to start a dedicated US 99 page.  Much of the Fresno Road Meet was also comprised of the roads that the HSR is taking.

[Plutonic Panda]

That doesn't mean it has to be closed and to me that's not a valid reason. This is just part of a crusade to eliminate as much car infrastructure as possible. This has nothing to do with reconnecting a park that's already heretically by a tunnel as is.

"already heretically by a tunnel" What does that even mean?

First and foremost, it's not all about you, and your potential inconvenience. Often, from your posts, you make it seem that way. It's about the specific community in that area; the area bisected by the park. Quoting from the original article: "The $2.5-million effort in MacArthur Park is mostly covered by a federal grant. It's part of a larger campaign to redress the harm caused by building roads that fractured communities, often cutting through low-income or already segregated areas."

Wilshire did not originally go through the park -- read the Kevin Roderick book. So the issue is how to make that community better. THat's a community that tends to be a park desert, other than MacArthur. So increasing the greenbelt does make life better for that neighborhood.

I can cite numerous examples of highway projects that have divided or destroyed low income neighborhoods, all for the convenience of the traveler (often who is higher income). Hollenbeck Park was hurt by the construction of I-5, Route 60, and I-10 in that area. West Adams by the I-10. Barrio Logan in San Diego. The impacts on Oakland from I-980. I just found an article on the impacts on the Asian American community from the western half of the Stockton Crosstown Freeway.

So it's not all about you, unless you are living on the edge of the park. Commuting through the area? There are other routes.

There's also other alternatives to increase connectivity, then just closing this road that I use a lot and so do a lot of other people.

Again, "I use a lot". The concern is the impact on the neighborhood.

But, if you don't like it, it is in the early planning stages. From the article: "City leaders announced the first step Tuesday toward eliminating vehicles on a less than half-mile stretch of Wilshire Boulevard bisecting MacArthur Park. Over the coming year, planners will seek community input, draft environmental documents and test closures in a bid to permanently shut down that portion of road."

Provide that community input. They are legally required to address it in the DEIR.

So this logic can apply to so many places so how many roads are we going to close then?

[Max Rockatansky]

Probably leaves them opened to being targeted for closure given the current stance by Los Angeles to push transit options.  That doesn't they "will be" though.

I feel like this whole thread would be my non-sarcastic answer for this thread:

https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=35009.0

[Plutonic Panda]

I brought up the walking element because I'm saying it's not an issue issue walking between both sides of the park and Wilshire is not dividing the park so they claim it is to warrant closing the road that a lot of people including me use. I will absolutely do my best to attend these public meetings. If I can voice, my opinion, and I will be interested to hear what other people have to say.

There doesn't seem to be any real thought, being put in to just dismantling the cities grid system, and shutting down parts and pieces of a road here and there because there's alternatives which is always the typical excuse with no plan on how to actually improve mobility in the city. Focus on getting actual transit projects done. They closed the lane of La Brea down each way for a bus lane which I could've lived with, but all they did was re-stripe the road. I take that from time to time down to Wilshire in the improvements are negligible at best.

Council members just wanna play the anti-Car crap and they really don't even seem like they're doing it right they're just trying to be politicians pandering and nothing more.

So yes, I am going to complain on this forum When stuff like this pops up. We've had this discussion before Max. Talk to a moderator and then they can tell me to stop and I'll stop. I do more than complain on this forum. I post a lot of updates and I cheer a lot of projects on. I also post a lot of updates and support a lot of transit projects in and around LA.

So either stop saying that I do nothing but complain or go talk to a moderator. I don't know what to tell you about that one.

[Max Rockatansky]

What makes you think I want to run to a moderator?  You're the one getting spun up because their logic is being questioned. 

To me threads like this are just entertainment on an otherwise boring day (like today).  If you don't like being questioned or having people disagree with you then perhaps reconsider the tact of what you post?

I feel it is fair to ask at this point, do you expect universal agreement when you post on this board?  The way you respond to most of us tends to read as though you are surprised when there is dissent not in your favor.

[Plutonic Panda]

What makes you think I want to run to a moderator?  You're the one getting spun up because their logic is being questioned. 

To me threads like this are just entertainment on an otherwise boring day (like today).  If you don't like being questioned or having people disagree with you then perhaps reconsider the tact of what you post?

I feel it is fair to ask at this point, do you expect universal agreement when you post on this board?  The way you respond to most of us tends to read as though you are surprised when there is dissent not in your favor.

I'm not spun up or mad man. I'm voicing my opinion. I disagree with this proposal. In my initial post, I don't even believe I gave my opinion. I just asked what other people thought. Then I gave my opinion and here you are for the second time saying I just sit here and complain and be selfish because I wanna drive wherever I want and have road plowing through wherever.

And you don't need to justify why you're engaging in a conversation with me. I'm not asking you to play moderator. It just seems like from time to time you try to call me out as if I'm spewing mindless banter, and that I really don't appreciate because it's not true.

[Max Rockatansky]

Where in any of the above did I call you selfish? 

While I get that you don't appreciate me not agreeing with you, what do expect?  The things you choose to usually get upset about usually aren't exactly worth the outrage.  This very topic is a perfect example of a largely minor road closure being blown way out of proportion.

To be clear, I'm not really seeing a point to closing Wilshire through the park.  All the same, I don't think this is worth the outrage you seem to think it deserves. 

Your arguments against this project are largely from a stance of it inconveniences you in a minor way.  How do you expect to go to a public hearing and get anyone to listen to you if that is all you have? 

I don't know, the "I'm outraged" argument is so soft that I usually dismiss outright.  Usually all attempts to reach people with that stance/mindset are a futile effort.  I feel as though you'd be better off not sharing the outrage stories unless you had a more coherently form counter argument. 

On Facebook and mainstream social media outrage gets a lot of attention.  On forums like this, it just gets picked apart.

[Plutonic Panda]

Max, I don't care if you agree with me or not. I don't get what I'm saying that makes you think I'm upset you don't agree with me.

[Max Rockatansky]

You can quit the back and forth with me at any time you like. 

All the same, if you insist on putting words in my mouth I'm always going to be game for a retort.  I don't need a moderator to clarify things when you accuse me of things I didn't say. 

[cahwyguy]

Adding a bit of perspective: We're talking about 1/2 mile here. Not an entire freeway. Not a large segment of road.

They also appear to be talking about removing the road in that stretch. Translation: Turn it back into planted green space, vs. heat-reflective asphalt. So although there is a tunnel that connects the two parts, green space is different. Green space is also safer than a tunnel for people using it.

As for the inconvenience: People do get used to it, for short segments. They did a road diet on Wilbur near me, adding bike lanes and removing a lane. People bitched and moaned for about a year, and now everyone is used to it. People will get used to it, and those that need to make time will use other streets, notably 3rd, 6th, 7th, Olympic (which used to be the state highway), and Beverly.

[Plutonic Panda]

^^^ again where does that logic end?

[pderocco]

Let me remind people that Wilshire was cut through Westlake Park (its name at the time) about 90 years ago. The idea that this harmed a neighborhood in a way that can be remedied now, 90 years later, is absurd. It's not the same community. It's completely different people who live there now, and they've lived with Wilshire Blvd passing through the park for as long as they can remember. It's no different from Wilshire Blvd passing through any other four block long area, except for the fact that there's a park there. The only rational justification for this project is that it would improve the park, not the neighborhood. Since there are already two ped tunnels under it, if they need better connectivity between the two parts of the park, they could add a footbridge.

Sure, drivers can adapt by using different roads, as they did in the 1920s when they'd jog down onto 7th St. (That's what old maps show as the natural extension of Wilshire into downtown.) But people who live there have adapted to the presence of Wilshire, too, as they have to every major thoroughfare built anywhere in any urban area.

And we're not exactly talking about an eight-lane freeway making it nearly impossible to get to the other side on foot.

[mrsman]

I would add that in Westside L.A. it is common for there to be a larger volume of "major" streets, but each is narrower in the sections closer to Downtown, but fewer streets and wider streets as you get closer to the Ocean.

So there are only 5 main thoroughfares crossing the 405 in the northern part of the Westside: Sunset, Wilshire, Santa Monica, Olympic, Pico.  The traffic from there (in particular the first three) splits off into more thoroughfares by the time we reach Crescent Heights: Hollywood, Fountain, Melrose, Beverly, 3rd, 6th, and San Vicente are added to the mix.  As you move even further east there are more options, particularly around Wilshire.  Beverly splits its traffic between Temple and 1st.  7th, 8th, and to a lesser degree 9th and 11th are decent local through streets east of Vermont.

[Scott5114]

There's a running joke around the area that you could catch a fish in the park and catch every STD known to man if you ate it.

What are you people doing to those poor fish that you're catching STDs from them?

[Plutonic Panda]

There's a running joke around the area that you could catch a fish in the park and catch every STD known to man if you ate it.

What are you people doing to those poor fish that you're catching STDs from them?

I mean, it just starts out with a casual walk you know like any other day and you see a fish that you just start talking to and like and start to fall in love with and then just it picks up from there. Then you get a phone call the next day and you should get tested.

[Max Rockatansky]

Why am I getting South Park Fish Sticks episode vibes from the forum today?

[Plutonic Panda]

Why am I getting South Park Fish Sticks episode vibes from the forum today?

My cover for not wanting Wilshire to be closed has been exposed. Damn it.

[Plutonic Panda]

Sitting in traffic now seeing how much traffic moves through this stretch of Wilshire and they want to close it. lol Jesus

[SeriesE]

This closure proposal is so minor in the grand scheme of things. If traffic ends up being that bad, they can change 7th Street and 6th Street into one-way couplets around the park.

[Plutonic Panda]

This closure proposal is so minor in the grand scheme of things. If traffic ends up being that bad, they can change 7th Street and 6th Street into one-way couplets around the park.

Should close those too to reconnect the neighborhoods.

[Max Rockatansky]

This is really taking a turn for the FreewayJim style alarmism now isn't it?

[Rothman]

This is really taking a turn for the FreewayJim style alarmism now isn't it?

Somebody needs to give the actual FreewayJim alarmist the John Cena treatment.

[Max Rockatansky]

This is really taking a turn for the FreewayJim style alarmism now isn't it?

Somebody needs to give the actual FreewayJim alarmist the John Cena treatment.

He had one post removed about a week ago.  It had something to do with a kid peddling a bike down a highway.  The rare admin action surprised the hell out of me.

[Plutonic Panda]

This is really taking a turn for the FreewayJim style alarmism now isn't it?

I mean, it's fair game, Max. We need to remove every freeway and road that is ever disconnected a neighborhood I'm sure there's an alternative nearby. No big deal.

[Max Rockatansky]

The way you're acting does serve as a motivator to be more in favor of closure projects like the one on Wilshire.  I'm sure it isn't helping your credibility with others when they keep seeing you top post rants on this board.