https://www.syracuse.com/entertainment/2024/09/classic-rock-band-to-stop-touring-due-to-irreconcilable-differences.html
I thought Don Felder and Glen Frey were bad in the eighties touring together, but this tops that.
I kind of get why though. If one of the members had back surgery and hasn't recovered, the only choices are to either retire or get another member. I don't think this was as ego driven as the Eagles famous breakup. Fortunately, we got the Eagles to reunite with the classic lineup. I will say seeing REO a number of years ago in Champaign was so worth the drive down.
Yeah bands are usually LLCs or partnerships that give the owners various rights. My guess is that if two of the three members didn't want to tour with the bass player recovering from surgery, they just pulled the plug. The LLC will continue to collect and pay out royalties based on whatever agreements are in place.
Time to lock the Speedwagon up in the garage.
Saw them a couple of years ago anyway.
Honestly, I don't want to see any of these guys anymore. Most of them don't jam much anymore. They just play their stuff - a Spotify playlist is cheaper and likely better.
Quote from: hobsini2 on September 18, 2024, 09:58:41 AMI kind of get why though. If one of the members had back surgery and hasn't recovered, the only choices are to either retire or get another member. I don't think this was as ego driven as the Eagles famous breakup. Fortunately, we got the Eagles to reunite with the classic lineup. I will say seeing REO a number of years ago in Champaign was so worth the drive down.
This happened with Yes years ago when singer Jon Anderson had a near-fatal respiratory event. The remaining members decided to replace him and move on (and have since replaced the original Anderson replacement singer). Needless to say it's left a rift between Anderson and the rest of the group as well as been a longtime sore point with many fans.
Ah the tragedy of dinosaur bands touring with barely any original members. Coming to an indian casino or county fair near you!
BREAKING: boomer rock group gets too old to tour.
Quote from: TheHighwayMan3561 on September 18, 2024, 02:30:32 PMQuote from: hobsini2 on September 18, 2024, 09:58:41 AMI kind of get why though. If one of the members had back surgery and hasn't recovered, the only choices are to either retire or get another member. I don't think this was as ego driven as the Eagles famous breakup. Fortunately, we got the Eagles to reunite with the classic lineup. I will say seeing REO a number of years ago in Champaign was so worth the drive down.
This happened with Yes years ago when singer Jon Anderson had a near-fatal respiratory event. The remaining members decided to replace him and move on (and have since replaced the original Anderson replacement singer). Needless to say it's left a rift between Anderson and the rest of the group as well as been a longtime sore point with many fans.
Styx, too, when Dennis DeYoung had a medical condition that was causing vision problems under bright lights. In their case, though, they were already fighting so much about everything else that I think Tommy Shaw viewed DeYoung's desire to postpone touring at that time as a good excuse for firing him. Of course it led to litigation over whether and how DeYoung could use the name "Styx" in promoting his own work (I seem to recall the resolution was that he could refer to himself as a former member of Styx or as performing "the music of Styx" but could not call himself "the voice of Styx").
The younger crowd then asks "What is 'REO Speedwagon'?".
Mike
Quote from: triplemultiplex on September 18, 2024, 02:49:48 PMAh the tragedy of dinosaur bands touring with barely any original members. Coming to an indian casino or county fair near you!
And yet we have Chicago and other bands who are able to adapt with a mix of old and new members. Call me crazy, but I'm glad those bands are still going strong for more than 50 years after their founding.
Quote from: mgk920 on September 19, 2024, 12:09:11 PMThe younger crowd then asks "What is 'REO Speedwagon'?".
JoJo's Bizarre Adventure fans might have an idea who they are.
Quote from: Henry on September 19, 2024, 10:21:16 PMQuote from: triplemultiplex on September 18, 2024, 02:49:48 PMAh the tragedy of dinosaur bands touring with barely any original members. Coming to an indian casino or county fair near you!
And yet we have Chicago and other bands who are able to adapt with a mix of old and new members. Call me crazy, but I'm glad those bands are still going strong for more than 50 years after their founding.
Some phony bands like the current iteration of the Little River Band excepted, I agree. I think it's better for music to still have classic legacy groups out there. Just don't go if it's not your thing.
Quote from: TheHighwayMan3561 on September 20, 2024, 01:36:30 AMQuote from: Henry on September 19, 2024, 10:21:16 PMQuote from: triplemultiplex on September 18, 2024, 02:49:48 PMAh the tragedy of dinosaur bands touring with barely any original members. Coming to an indian casino or county fair near you!
And yet we have Chicago and other bands who are able to adapt with a mix of old and new members. Call me crazy, but I'm glad those bands are still going strong for more than 50 years after their founding.
Some phony bands like the current iteration of the Little River Band excepted, I agree. I think it's better for music to still have classic legacy groups out there. Just don't go if it's not your thing.
I don't know how it's "better for music" to have these guys touring. But yeah, if its your thing, go for it.
Quote from: SEWIGuy on September 20, 2024, 08:36:28 AMQuote from: TheHighwayMan3561 on September 20, 2024, 01:36:30 AMQuote from: Henry on September 19, 2024, 10:21:16 PMQuote from: triplemultiplex on September 18, 2024, 02:49:48 PMAh the tragedy of dinosaur bands touring with barely any original members. Coming to an indian casino or county fair near you!
And yet we have Chicago and other bands who are able to adapt with a mix of old and new members. Call me crazy, but I'm glad those bands are still going strong for more than 50 years after their founding.
Some phony bands like the current iteration of the Little River Band excepted, I agree. I think it's better for music to still have classic legacy groups out there. Just don't go if it's not your thing.
I don't know how it's "better for music" to have these guys touring. But yeah, if its your thing, go for it.
There are definitely some legacy bands that still tour and can still rock as if they were 30 or 40 years younger. I saw Santana in June for my first time. He was blazing hot that night. The Who and the Stones are still going strong. My music hero John Mellencamp, who I have seen 8 times in the last 30 years,can still rock but the years of smoking has taken a toll on his voice. Within the last 5 years or so you can hear it.
Quote from: SEWIGuy on September 20, 2024, 08:36:28 AMQuote from: TheHighwayMan3561 on September 20, 2024, 01:36:30 AMQuote from: Henry on September 19, 2024, 10:21:16 PMQuote from: triplemultiplex on September 18, 2024, 02:49:48 PMAh the tragedy of dinosaur bands touring with barely any original members. Coming to an indian casino or county fair near you!
And yet we have Chicago and other bands who are able to adapt with a mix of old and new members. Call me crazy, but I'm glad those bands are still going strong for more than 50 years after their founding.
Some phony bands like the current iteration of the Little River Band excepted, I agree. I think it's better for music to still have classic legacy groups out there. Just don't go if it's not your thing.
I don't know how it's "better for music" to have these guys touring. But yeah, if its your thing, go for it.
My doctor's recommendation for you is to stop being a stick in the mud all the time.
Quote from: TheHighwayMan3561 on September 20, 2024, 03:52:15 PMQuote from: SEWIGuy on September 20, 2024, 08:36:28 AMQuote from: TheHighwayMan3561 on September 20, 2024, 01:36:30 AMQuote from: Henry on September 19, 2024, 10:21:16 PMQuote from: triplemultiplex on September 18, 2024, 02:49:48 PMAh the tragedy of dinosaur bands touring with barely any original members. Coming to an indian casino or county fair near you!
And yet we have Chicago and other bands who are able to adapt with a mix of old and new members. Call me crazy, but I'm glad those bands are still going strong for more than 50 years after their founding.
Some phony bands like the current iteration of the Little River Band excepted, I agree. I think it's better for music to still have classic legacy groups out there. Just don't go if it's not your thing.
I don't know how it's "better for music" to have these guys touring. But yeah, if its your thing, go for it.
My doctor's recommendation for you is to stop being a stick in the mud all the time.
Eh. You have the choice to ignore me.
From what I've seen in videos, Clapton still kicks ass on stage!
Quote from: hobsini2 on September 18, 2024, 09:58:41 AMI kind of get why though. If one of the members had back surgery and hasn't recovered, the only choices are to either retire or get another member. I don't think this was as ego driven as the Eagles famous breakup. Fortunately, we got the Eagles to reunite with the classic lineup. I will say seeing REO a number of years ago in Champaign was so worth the drive down.
Still though Glen Frey and Don Felder managed to keep their anomosity going as Felder got fired in the late nineties and ended up suing him and Henley.
With prices of concert tickets being so insane these days I don't care if these "dinosaur bands" tour or not. I'm not paying $75 or more to see some band that has only 1 or 2 original members and hasn't had a hit since the 1980's.
About the only concerts I'll go to anymore are to see up and coming bands at smaller venues (usually some kind of bar or night club). Ticketmaster and LiveNation have ruined concert-going in so many other places.
20 or more years ago I used to have fun seeing old bands playing live. I saw Quiet Riot play at a local club called the Diamondback; I got my old vinyl LP of "Metal Health" signed by all four band members. Bands like April Wine and Great White played there in the same late 1990's era. Tickets were cheap. The casinos have taken over that tour circuit. Naturally the prices are a lot higher. Then there is the whole other level: seeing current big name bands play indoor arenas. It's easy to spend the equivalent of a house payment on those kinds of tickets.
Quote from: roadman65 on September 20, 2024, 04:33:52 PMFrom what I've seen in videos, Clapton still kicks ass on stage!
He's a terrible human being.
The whole anti-vax thing hasn't been helpful to the "dinosaur" stage of his live concert career.
Quote from: Bobby5280 on September 20, 2024, 10:55:39 PMThe whole anti-vax thing hasn't been helpful to the "dinosaur" stage of his live concert career.
Neither has his racism:
https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-features/eric-clapton-vaccine-lockdown-racist-comments-1239027/
Eric Clapton has been an ass all of his life. And he's not a great song-writer.
But he really is a hell of guitarist. Always has been.
Quote from: mgk920 on September 19, 2024, 12:09:11 PMThe younger crowd then asks "What is 'REO Speedwagon'?".
Mike
Meanwhile, the Greatest Generation was probably wondering if the body was by Fisher.
Those left from the Greatest Generation probably don't know much about what's going on any more. The youngest of them are in their mid-90s.
Quote from: TheHighwayMan3561 on September 20, 2024, 01:36:30 AMQuoteAnd yet we have Chicago and other bands who are able to adapt with a mix of old and new members. Call me crazy, but I'm glad those bands are still going strong for more than 50 years after their founding.
Some phony bands like the current iteration of the Little River Band excepted, I agree.
That points out a unique standard. The big bands in the '30s and '40s may have kept their bandleaders but the personnel changed. Major symphony orchestras that are 100+ years old obviously have had complete turnovers of personnel. Same with professional sports teams. Nobody has a problem with it.
What is it about rock bands that the popular thought is the entity has to dissolve when the original members leave?
Quote from: Rothman on September 21, 2024, 11:54:46 PMQuote from: Bobby5280 on September 20, 2024, 10:55:39 PMThe whole anti-vax thing hasn't been helpful to the "dinosaur" stage of his live concert career.
Neither has his racism:
https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-features/eric-clapton-vaccine-lockdown-racist-comments-1239027/
I don't know. He had a lot of black friends including Robert Cray, the Late BB King, and many classic blues artists. Plus he tours often with Greg Philapaines and Nathan East who are black musicians.
Occasionally, something will float across my Facebook feed along the lines of "bands with no original members remaining."
I'm not sure if Molly Hatchet is still around, but all of their original members are dead.
Chicago has three original members -- Robert Lamm, Lee Loughnane, and James Pankow -- remaining. They fired Danny Seraphine years ago, Walter Parazaider has Alzheimer's and has retired, and Peter Cetera left for a solo career in the 80s. But in my estimation, that band went on life support when Terry Kath died and finally kicked the bucket when they fired his replacement, Donnie Dacus.
I'm not sure how the bands' legal statuses are determined. Look at Kiss, for example. It started out as four equal partners. Then Peter Criss left, followed by Ace Frehley. When Paul Stanley and Gene Simmons got control, every subsequent Kiss member -- including Frehley and Criss when they came back -- was an employee rather than a co-equal boss the way the original foursome was set up.
I also heard rumors that Justin Hayward and John Lodge of the former Moody Blues don't get along. In fact Hayward said without Grame Edge, the late Moody Blues percussionist, he says he won't considering regrouping at all.
Justin says only business is discussed with Lodge as there is no personal relationship between the two former vocalists of the popular band.
Quote from: hbelkins on September 23, 2024, 02:53:37 PMI'm not sure how the bands' legal statuses are determined. Look at Kiss, for example. It started out as four equal partners. Then Peter Criss left, followed by Ace Frehley. When Paul Stanley and Gene Simmons got control, every subsequent Kiss member -- including Frehley and Criss when they came back -- was an employee rather than a co-equal boss the way the original foursome was set up.
Like many other businesses these things exist as shares and contracts between the members and management. In 1987 when David Gilmour and Nick Mason made the first Pink Floyd album after Roger Waters's departure, they wanted to bring back keyboardist Richard Wright whom Waters had dismissed from the band during The Wall's recording. However, Wright legally could not return to the band and played as a glorified side musician on that album until he could legally become a member again.
For Yes, the name is owned by Jon Anderson, Steve Howe, and the estates of the late Chris Squire and Alan White. This is why there were two legal bands called Yes touring, until the short-lived Anderson group with Trevor Rabin and Rick Wakeman disbanded and Howe continues to tour as Yes proper. It's probably why Anderson can call his latest project with the Band Geeks "Yes Epics And Classics" on tour.
At least the members of Genesis had got along reasonably well even after the departures of Peter Gabriel and Steve Hackett. Up until Phil Collins' health issues started a few years ago, they would occasionally show up randomly and play "one night only" events. I was hoping on the last Farewell Tour (2018 i think) Gabriel and Hackett would have done the tour. Unfortunately, they did not.
In terms of rock bands from the 1970's thru 1990's I think it really does matter how many original members are left in the band. I'd be more likely to pay decent money to see a dinosaur band live in concert that still had most or all of its original members versus paying to see a version of that band with maybe one or two original members. I couldn't care less about a band that had no remaining original members. As far as I'm concerned that's a tribute band, not the real thing.
Real rock bands seem like they're turning into a thing of the past. So many current "groups" are really just a solo performer surrounded by session musicians in the studio and touring musicians on the road. The one lead guy makes all the creative decisions (and keeps most of the money made).
It's very difficult for real rock bands to stay together for a long time. The Police was famous for its creative feuding (particularly Sting vs Stewart Copeland). All three members were great musicians with their own distinct creative visions. Those visions would often clash. The situation is easier when one "boss" guy is calling all the shots and the "hired help" just follows orders.
Quote from: Bobby5280 on September 24, 2024, 09:58:25 AMIn terms of rock bands from the 1970's thru 1990's I think it really does matter how many original members are left in the band. I'd be more likely to pay decent money to see a dinosaur band live in concert that still had most or all of its original members versus paying to see a version of that band with maybe one or two original members. I couldn't care less about a band that had no remaining original members. As far as I'm concerned that's a tribute band, not the real thing.
Real rock bands seem like they're turning into a thing of the past. So many current "groups" are really just a solo performer surrounded by session musicians in the studio and touring musicians on the road. The one lead guy makes all the creative decisions (and keeps most of the money made).
It's very difficult for real rock bands to stay together for a long time. The Police was famous for its creative feuding (particularly Sting vs Stewart Copeland). All three members were great musicians with their own distinct creative visions. Those visions would often clash. The situation is easier when one "boss" guy is calling all the shots and the "hired help" just follows orders.
Kind of like Bruce Springsteen and the E Street Band. HE is the Boss!
Quote from: Bobby5280 on September 24, 2024, 09:58:25 AMIn terms of rock bands from the 1970's thru 1990's I think it really does matter how many original members are left in the band. I'd be more likely to pay decent money to see a dinosaur band live in concert that still had most or all of its original members versus paying to see a version of that band with maybe one or two original members. I couldn't care less about a band that had no remaining original members. As far as I'm concerned that's a tribute band, not the real thing.
Real rock bands seem like they're turning into a thing of the past. So many current "groups" are really just a solo performer surrounded by session musicians in the studio and touring musicians on the road. The one lead guy makes all the creative decisions (and keeps most of the money made).
It's very difficult for real rock bands to stay together for a long time. The Police was famous for its creative feuding (particularly Sting vs Stewart Copeland). All three members were great musicians with their own distinct creative visions. Those visions would often clash. The situation is easier when one "boss" guy is calling all the shots and the "hired help" just follows orders.
For the most part, I agree with you, but I was/am a big fan of ELO, and sent to see them a few weeks ago in Indianapolis, which is billed as "Jeff Lynne's ELO". for the most part with the vocals, production, and songwriting, Jeff Lynne IS ELO and he handpicked exceptional talent to back him up that sounds like the originals. That being said, I also had a chance to see a group called "The Orchestra" which is comprised of many of the session and touring bands of ELO from the 70s, and watching them was quite an experience. Apparently they still tour some even this year.
Quote from: Bobby5280 on September 24, 2024, 09:58:25 AMThe Police was famous for its creative feuding (particularly Sting vs Stewart Copeland).
It's always weird seeing Stewart Copeland brought up as part of The Police; I primarily think of him as "the guy that did the
Spyro the Dragon soundtrack" (which sounds nothing at all like The Police).
Quote from: hobsini2 on September 24, 2024, 10:06:06 AMQuote from: Bobby5280 on September 24, 2024, 09:58:25 AMIn terms of rock bands from the 1970's thru 1990's I think it really does matter how many original members are left in the band. I'd be more likely to pay decent money to see a dinosaur band live in concert that still had most or all of its original members versus paying to see a version of that band with maybe one or two original members. I couldn't care less about a band that had no remaining original members. As far as I'm concerned that's a tribute band, not the real thing.
Real rock bands seem like they're turning into a thing of the past. So many current "groups" are really just a solo performer surrounded by session musicians in the studio and touring musicians on the road. The one lead guy makes all the creative decisions (and keeps most of the money made).
It's very difficult for real rock bands to stay together for a long time. The Police was famous for its creative feuding (particularly Sting vs Stewart Copeland). All three members were great musicians with their own distinct creative visions. Those visions would often clash. The situation is easier when one "boss" guy is calling all the shots and the "hired help" just follows orders.
Kind of like Bruce Springsteen and the E Street Band. HE is the Boss!
But unlike some other bands where one member dominates (Boston immediately comes to mind in that respect), most of the E Street Band's membership has remained relatively constant. Clarence Clemons and Danny Federici both died, but otherwise, the only significant change in the lineup came in the early 1980s when Steve Van Zandt left and was replaced by Nils Lofgren—but then, a few years later, the band went on hiatus for ten years and when they reunited, both Van Zandt and Lofgren returned.
When we saw Springsteen at Nationals Park earlier this month, he was talking about his first band when he was in high school in the 1960s and he noted that band stuck together for three years, which is a long time for a high school band. Then he laughed and said something like, "Now THESE motherfuckers and I have been together for FIFTY years!"
Heh, with all of this talk about original lineups, it's worth noting that REO Speedwagon replaced their original lead singer three years after the group was founded.
Recently, I read about Journey's recent clunker of a show that prompted frontman Arnel Pineda to propose being replaced by the same guy he took over for all those years ago, Steve Perry. That would be the rock equivalent of when Ray Combs got replaced by Richard Dawson on Family Feud (which may have played a role in taking his own life two years after the fact), or when Jay Leno replaced Conan O'Brien on the Tonight Show after a failed primetime experiment.
Quote from: Henry on September 25, 2024, 10:17:26 PMRecently, I read about Journey's recent clunker of a show that prompted frontman Arnel Pineda to propose being replaced by the same guy he took over for all those years ago, Steve Perry. That would be the rock equivalent of when Ray Combs got replaced by Richard Dawson on Family Feud (which may have played a role in taking his own life two years after the fact), or when Jay Leno replaced Conan O'Brien on the Tonight Show after a failed primetime experiment.
I don't think Perry has any interest right? He didn't even sing with them during their HOF induction.
Quote from: SEWIGuy on September 26, 2024, 07:03:05 AMQuote from: Henry on September 25, 2024, 10:17:26 PMRecently, I read about Journey's recent clunker of a show that prompted frontman Arnel Pineda to propose being replaced by the same guy he took over for all those years ago, Steve Perry. That would be the rock equivalent of when Ray Combs got replaced by Richard Dawson on Family Feud (which may have played a role in taking his own life two years after the fact), or when Jay Leno replaced Conan O'Brien on the Tonight Show after a failed primetime experiment.
I don't think Perry has any interest right? He didn't even sing with them during their HOF induction.
Perry basically gave his blessing that it was Pineda's band now at that HOF induction as well.
Journey seems to have other more major problems lately anyway (see: the legal battle between Neal Schon and Jonathan Cain)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LkgEZa7lDHw
For those who think Clapton is a racist.
Quote from: roadman65 on September 29, 2024, 04:39:11 PMhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LkgEZa7lDHw
For those who think Clapton is a racist.
Personal life/actions > for profit performance
(looks at this thread)
(suddenly remembers the constant drama on the Fleetwood Mac subreddit and ThePenguin.net between Lindsey Buckingham and Stevie Nicks partisans)
(then also amused that they were essentially in the FOURTH different lineup of the band, albeit the most successful one)
For the record: Saw them two years in a row in San Jose, 2013 and 2014 (after Christine had rejoined). I enjoyed both shows but weirdly felt the performance without Christine had a little more energy.
Quote from: Rothman on September 29, 2024, 07:30:52 PMQuote from: roadman65 on September 29, 2024, 04:39:11 PMhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LkgEZa7lDHw
For those who think Clapton is a racist.
Personal life/actions > for profit performance
Whatever.
I'm not going to stop listening to him because of politics. I'm not like my cousin who refuses to listen to Linda Ronstadt because she is a liberal and he is not.
Actions speak louder than words. I look at what people do rather than say. Words mean nothing. Actions say what words can't.
There are only a beyond very select few artists who I won't listen to out of principal (very, VERY few), otherwise their off-stage personas just come with the territory.
:meh:
Mike
Quote from: mgk920 on September 30, 2024, 12:02:40 PMThere are only a beyond very select few artists who I won't listen to out of principal (very, VERY few), otherwise their off-stage personas just come with the territory.
:meh:
Mike
Good point. I'm not going to not listen to Clapton. I just know he's a jerk...and that there are a lot of terrible people that are good performers (Jerry Garcia also comes to mind).
That said, I can't watch anything with Bill Cosby in it anymore. The disgust is too great.
I'm sure I'm contradictory somewhere along the line in terms of who I choose to listen to or watch and who I don't.
This reminds me of the old phrase "never meet your heroes."
Quote from: Rothman on September 30, 2024, 12:05:52 PMQuote from: mgk920 on September 30, 2024, 12:02:40 PMThere are only a beyond very select few artists who I won't listen to out of principal (very, VERY few), otherwise their off-stage personas just come with the territory.
:meh:
Mike
Good point. I'm not going to not listen to Clapton. I just know he's a jerk...and that there are a lot of terrible people that are good performers (Jerry Garcia also comes to mind).
That said, I can't watch anything with Bill Cosby in it anymore. The disgust is too great.
I'm sure I'm contradictory somewhere along the line in terms of who I choose to listen to or watch and who I don't.
I'm with you about Bill Cosby. I loved his work but I just can't support him in anyway shape or form.
As for musical artists, there's very few I have blacklisted and will never listen to as long as I can. The only one that comes to mind quickly is Ted Nugent. Just a fucking hypocrite with his "patriotism" but when it came time for him to serve, he crapped his pants on stage. In fact, he is on my "bus list". The bus list is people who need to load up on a bus and be driven off a short pier into Lake Michigan. Yes I am that vindictive to certain people who deserve it.
Quote from: roadman65 on September 30, 2024, 08:34:39 AMQuote from: Rothman on September 29, 2024, 07:30:52 PMQuote from: roadman65 on September 29, 2024, 04:39:11 PMhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LkgEZa7lDHw
For those who think Clapton is a racist.
Personal life/actions > for profit performance
Whatever.
I'm not going to stop listening to him because of politics. I'm not like my cousin who refuses to listen to Linda Ronstadt because she is a liberal and he is not.
Actions speak louder than words. I look at what people do rather than say. Words mean nothing. Actions say what words can't.
I think its very possible that Clapton has had some problematic views on race, but also has personal friends who are black, etc. I actually don't think that's as uncommon as people think.
But yeah, if you didn't listen to music because of one's views, you would be limiting your enjoyment to a large extent. For instance, Jimmy Page is by all accounts a pretty terrible person (like Clapton), but I am going to keep listening to Led Zeppelin just like I will Clapton.
Quote from: SEWIGuy on September 30, 2024, 01:28:43 PMQuote from: roadman65 on September 30, 2024, 08:34:39 AMQuote from: Rothman on September 29, 2024, 07:30:52 PMQuote from: roadman65 on September 29, 2024, 04:39:11 PMhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LkgEZa7lDHw
For those who think Clapton is a racist.
Personal life/actions > for profit performance
Whatever.
I'm not going to stop listening to him because of politics. I'm not like my cousin who refuses to listen to Linda Ronstadt because she is a liberal and he is not.
Actions speak louder than words. I look at what people do rather than say. Words mean nothing. Actions say what words can't.
I think its very possible that Clapton has had some problematic views on race, but also has personal friends who are black, etc. I actually don't think that's as uncommon as people think.
But yeah, if you didn't listen to music because of one's views, you would be limiting your enjoyment to a large extent. For instance, Jimmy Page is by all accounts a pretty terrible person (like Clapton), but I am going to keep listening to Led Zeppelin just like I will Clapton.
It's also possible he is unsure of his relationship with blacks although in reality he has friendships with many in the music industry that are not Caucasian which shows unknowingly or not, he really likes blacks.
Remember in politics you say with what your party does even when it isn't what you practice . Perfect example is Pelosi who says she is Catholic but does not believe in pro life. She holds on to both pro choice and Catholicism equally despite both cancel each other out. So what does it make her? Well for one may argue that's she is still both, as one can disagree with a pastor and embrace a congregation or she could be ignorant.
Point is if the m/o that Rothman holds is applied to the Former Speaker, then he would be calling Nancy a pro life embracer and her pro choice beliefs are not there.
Quote from: Rothman on September 30, 2024, 12:05:52 PMQuote from: mgk920 on September 30, 2024, 12:02:40 PMThere are only a beyond very select few artists who I won't listen to out of principal (very, VERY few), otherwise their off-stage personas just come with the territory.
:meh:
Mike
Good point. I'm not going to not listen to Clapton. I just know he's a jerk...and that there are a lot of terrible people that are good performers (Jerry Garcia also comes to mind).
That said, I can't watch anything with Bill Cosby in it anymore. The disgust is too great.
I'm sure I'm contradictory somewhere along the line in terms of who I choose to listen to or watch and who I don't.
This is reminiscent of the sad saga of Ray Gillen.
Who, you may ask?
He was briefly with Black Sabbath but is best known for his late-80s/early-90s albums with Badlands (featuring Jake E. Lee on guitar and Eric Singer of Black Sabbath and Kiss on drums).
He died of AIDS in 1993. Curiously absent from his Wikipedia entry is the fact that he knowingly infected women with the virus, to the point where Atlantic Records will no longer release the
Badlands and
Voodoo Highway albums. They will also not make the album available for download or streaming.
I had both CDs but they were stolen. At least I ripped them beforehand, so I have the music. And you can hear the
Badlands album on YouTube.
That debut album is one of the most underrated releases of the 1980s.
With Kris Kristofferson's passing on Saturday I remembered him standing with Sinéad O'Connor at a Bob Dylan tribute concert when the audience booed her off the stage. Very few people in the entertainment industry would stand up for her after she tore up a photo of the Pope on Saturday Night Live days earlier. But Kristofferson had the balls to do so.
Years later one child sex abuse scandal after another plagued the church, with institutional cover-ups going to the top, making it pretty clear O'Connor was right to do what she did.
Quote from: roadman65 on September 30, 2024, 03:49:09 PMQuote from: SEWIGuy on September 30, 2024, 01:28:43 PMQuote from: roadman65 on September 30, 2024, 08:34:39 AMQuote from: Rothman on September 29, 2024, 07:30:52 PMQuote from: roadman65 on September 29, 2024, 04:39:11 PMhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LkgEZa7lDHw
For those who think Clapton is a racist.
Personal life/actions > for profit performance
Whatever.
I'm not going to stop listening to him because of politics. I'm not like my cousin who refuses to listen to Linda Ronstadt because she is a liberal and he is not.
Actions speak louder than words. I look at what people do rather than say. Words mean nothing. Actions say what words can't.
I think its very possible that Clapton has had some problematic views on race, but also has personal friends who are black, etc. I actually don't think that's as uncommon as people think.
But yeah, if you didn't listen to music because of one's views, you would be limiting your enjoyment to a large extent. For instance, Jimmy Page is by all accounts a pretty terrible person (like Clapton), but I am going to keep listening to Led Zeppelin just like I will Clapton.
It's also possible he is unsure of his relationship with blacks although in reality he has friendships with many in the music industry that are not Caucasian which shows unknowingly or not, he really likes blacks.
Remember in politics you say with what your party does even when it isn't what you practice . Perfect example is Pelosi who says she is Catholic but does not believe in pro life. She holds on to both pro choice and Catholicism equally despite both cancel each other out. So what does it make her? Well for one may argue that's she is still both, as one can disagree with a pastor and embrace a congregation or she could be ignorant.
Point is if the m/o that Rothman holds is applied to the Former Speaker, then he would be calling Nancy a pro life embracer and her pro choice beliefs are not there.
This is pretty convoluted. "Unsure of his relationship with blacks?" I don't even know what that means.
He said some vile things about foreigners coming to England in the 1970s including using the phrase "keep England white." I have no idea if he still believes those things. I don't think he has ever denied, or apologized, or even addressed saying these things since that time. Being friends with some black people doesn't absolve him of his words.
But we are talking about a guy who also in the 1970s, dedicated one of his most famous albums to one of his best friend's wife, who he then married, abused and cheated on. We aren't exactly talking about a stellar human being here.
Quote from: formulanone on September 22, 2024, 11:00:48 AMQuote from: mgk920 on September 19, 2024, 12:09:11 PMThe younger crowd then asks "What is 'REO Speedwagon'?".
Meanwhile, the Greatest Generation was probably wondering if the body was by Fisher.
I wonder if anybody got the reference.
Quote from: SEWIGuy on September 30, 2024, 04:27:23 PMQuote from: roadman65 on September 30, 2024, 03:49:09 PMQuote from: SEWIGuy on September 30, 2024, 01:28:43 PMQuote from: roadman65 on September 30, 2024, 08:34:39 AMQuote from: Rothman on September 29, 2024, 07:30:52 PMQuote from: roadman65 on September 29, 2024, 04:39:11 PMhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LkgEZa7lDHw
For those who think Clapton is a racist.
Personal life/actions > for profit performance
Whatever.
I'm not going to stop listening to him because of politics. I'm not like my cousin who refuses to listen to Linda Ronstadt because she is a liberal and he is not.
Actions speak louder than words. I look at what people do rather than say. Words mean nothing. Actions say what words can't.
I think its very possible that Clapton has had some problematic views on race, but also has personal friends who are black, etc. I actually don't think that's as uncommon as people think.
But yeah, if you didn't listen to music because of one's views, you would be limiting your enjoyment to a large extent. For instance, Jimmy Page is by all accounts a pretty terrible person (like Clapton), but I am going to keep listening to Led Zeppelin just like I will Clapton.
It's also possible he is unsure of his relationship with blacks although in reality he has friendships with many in the music industry that are not Caucasian which shows unknowingly or not, he really likes blacks.
Remember in politics you say with what your party does even when it isn't what you practice . Perfect example is Pelosi who says she is Catholic but does not believe in pro life. She holds on to both pro choice and Catholicism equally despite both cancel each other out. So what does it make her? Well for one may argue that's she is still both, as one can disagree with a pastor and embrace a congregation or she could be ignorant.
Point is if the m/o that Rothman holds is applied to the Former Speaker, then he would be calling Nancy a pro life embracer and her pro choice beliefs are not there.
This is pretty convoluted. "Unsure of his relationship with blacks?" I don't even know what that means.
He said some vile things about foreigners coming to England in the 1970s including using the phrase "keep England white." I have no idea if he still believes those things. I don't think he has ever denied, or apologized, or even addressed saying these things since that time. Being friends with some black people doesn't absolve him of his words.
But we are talking about a guy who also in the 1970s, dedicated one of his most famous albums to one of his best friend's wife, who he then married, abused and cheated on. We aren't exactly talking about a stellar human being here.
I'm not here to define his character. I have been a fan of his for ages. I know all his sins especially his drugs and philandering. I'm not saying he is racist or not, but I find it odd that someone would be friends with many musicians of all creeds would be pegged as racist.
I'm not saying that's impossible to be friends with blacks and hate their existence at the same time. Plus the person on here saying that is an unhappy individual who has to pick on others to make himself feel superior and is been starting arguments with people especially when one person considers I-78 to end in Jersey City and not New York.
I like Clapton's music and that's it. Don't know him personally and don't care to and most likely never will
Eric Clapton is also a rapist.
It does take some gall to bite the blues musicians he built his career on.
Quote from: roadman65 on September 30, 2024, 07:55:48 PMQuote from: SEWIGuy on September 30, 2024, 04:27:23 PMQuote from: roadman65 on September 30, 2024, 03:49:09 PMQuote from: SEWIGuy on September 30, 2024, 01:28:43 PMQuote from: roadman65 on September 30, 2024, 08:34:39 AMQuote from: Rothman on September 29, 2024, 07:30:52 PMQuote from: roadman65 on September 29, 2024, 04:39:11 PMhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LkgEZa7lDHw
For those who think Clapton is a racist.
Personal life/actions > for profit performance
Whatever.
I'm not going to stop listening to him because of politics. I'm not like my cousin who refuses to listen to Linda Ronstadt because she is a liberal and he is not.
Actions speak louder than words. I look at what people do rather than say. Words mean nothing. Actions say what words can't.
I think its very possible that Clapton has had some problematic views on race, but also has personal friends who are black, etc. I actually don't think that's as uncommon as people think.
But yeah, if you didn't listen to music because of one's views, you would be limiting your enjoyment to a large extent. For instance, Jimmy Page is by all accounts a pretty terrible person (like Clapton), but I am going to keep listening to Led Zeppelin just like I will Clapton.
It's also possible he is unsure of his relationship with blacks although in reality he has friendships with many in the music industry that are not Caucasian which shows unknowingly or not, he really likes blacks.
Remember in politics you say with what your party does even when it isn't what you practice . Perfect example is Pelosi who says she is Catholic but does not believe in pro life. She holds on to both pro choice and Catholicism equally despite both cancel each other out. So what does it make her? Well for one may argue that's she is still both, as one can disagree with a pastor and embrace a congregation or she could be ignorant.
Point is if the m/o that Rothman holds is applied to the Former Speaker, then he would be calling Nancy a pro life embracer and her pro choice beliefs are not there.
This is pretty convoluted. "Unsure of his relationship with blacks?" I don't even know what that means.
He said some vile things about foreigners coming to England in the 1970s including using the phrase "keep England white." I have no idea if he still believes those things. I don't think he has ever denied, or apologized, or even addressed saying these things since that time. Being friends with some black people doesn't absolve him of his words.
But we are talking about a guy who also in the 1970s, dedicated one of his most famous albums to one of his best friend's wife, who he then married, abused and cheated on. We aren't exactly talking about a stellar human being here.
I'm not here to define his character. I have been a fan of his for ages. I know all his sins especially his drugs and philandering. I'm not saying he is racist or not, but I find it odd that someone would be friends with many musicians of all creeds would be pegged as racist.
I'm not saying that's impossible to be friends with blacks and hate their existence at the same time. Plus the person on here saying that is an unhappy individual who has to pick on others to make himself feel superior and is been starting arguments with people especially when one person considers I-78 to end in Jersey City and not New York.
I like Clapton's music and that's it. Don't know him personally and don't care to and most likely never will
My father in law didn't want black people living in his neighborhood. At his funeral, a black woman came up to the family saying how much she appreciated him because he would go out of his way to teach her what she needed to know to be a sheet-metal worker.
Human being are complex creatures with discriminations and prejudices that fall well short of "hating their existence."
People are human and we all make mistakes. We all demonstrate hypocrisy and we all demonstrate prejudice.
Racism and prejudice are not the same although the former starts with the latter. Prejudice is our own way of protecting ourselves against people with the same m/o of people we know that are just bad. It all depends on how we handle our prejudices is what matters.
It's a shame we become part of cliques or larger organizations including religion or political parties which demonstrate more prejudices than any one person can.
However, life isn't fair and we all need to just do our best and quit annalizing ourselves to find the cure for common human behavior as we will never find that answer.
Quote from: SEWIGuy on September 30, 2024, 01:28:43 PMI think its very possible that Clapton has had some problematic views on race, but also has personal friends who are black, etc. I actually don't think that's as uncommon as people think.
People think that's uncommon? "But I have friends who are Black" is practically a cliche at this point!
I think this thread outlived itself. It's no longer about about the fact REO Speedwagon called it quits. It's turning into whether Eric Clapton is a racist or not.
I think it maybe time to padlock this.
First I want to know how I can outlive myself, because it sounds like it would rule.
Quote from: Scott5114 on September 30, 2024, 11:21:58 PMFirst I want to know how I can outlive myself, because it sounds like it would rule.
I know someone who could help with that.
We could spin off a thread about celebrities who are suspected to be asswipes. Just a thought.
Quote from: hobsini2 on October 01, 2024, 09:11:10 AMWe could spin off a thread about celebrities who are suspected to be asswipes. Just a thought.
Maybe that thread could include the political and religious discussion certain users felt the need to include.
Quote from: bugo on September 30, 2024, 04:50:45 PMQuote from: formulanone on September 22, 2024, 11:00:48 AMQuote from: mgk920 on September 19, 2024, 12:09:11 PMThe younger crowd then asks "What is 'REO Speedwagon'?".
Meanwhile, the Greatest Generation was probably wondering if the body was by Fisher.
I wonder if anybody got the reference.
I aim to please, if not confuse.
Alec Baldwin can lead that series. 😂
Quote from: bugo on September 30, 2024, 04:50:45 PMQuote from: formulanone on September 22, 2024, 11:00:48 AMQuote from: mgk920 on September 19, 2024, 12:09:11 PMThe younger crowd then asks "What is 'REO Speedwagon'?".
Meanwhile, the Greatest Generation was probably wondering if the body was by Fisher.
I wonder if anybody got the reference.
Absolutely I did.