Jonathan Joss, known for his roles in King of the Hill and Parks and Rec, was murdered on Saturday by his homophobic neighbor, 56-year-old Sigfredo Alvarez Cejam.
https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2025/jun/02/jonathan-joss-king-hill-actor-killed-shooting
Sadly, some terrible people are also very dangerous assholes with a disdain for others' lives.
That show is certainly cursed, with the voices of Dale, Lucky, Luanne and now John having passed away. But at least Dale will be recast in midseason so that he'll be allowed to continue as part of the main cast.
RIP Jonathan Joss
Quote from: LilianaUwU on June 02, 2025, 05:16:03 PMmurdered on Saturday by his homophobic neighbor
Quote from: San Antonio Police DepartmentDespite online claims of this being a hate crime, currently the investigation has found no evidence to indicate that the Mr. Joss's murder was related to his sexual orientation.
*sigh*
Quote from: kphoger on June 03, 2025, 10:06:14 AMQuote from: LilianaUwU on June 02, 2025, 05:16:03 PMmurdered on Saturday by his homophobic neighbor
Quote from: San Antonio Police DepartmentDespite online claims of this being a hate crime, currently the investigation has found no evidence to indicate that the Mr. Joss's murder was related to his sexual orientation.
*sigh*
Obviously can't speak to the validity of either claim, but you'd just hope that there was a good faith effort to investigate it.
Quote from: JayhawkCO on June 03, 2025, 10:21:08 AMQuote from: kphoger on June 03, 2025, 10:06:14 AMQuote from: LilianaUwU on June 02, 2025, 05:16:03 PMmurdered on Saturday by his homophobic neighbor
Quote from: San Antonio Police DepartmentDespite online claims of this being a hate crime, currently the investigation has found no evidence to indicate that the Mr. Joss's murder was related to his sexual orientation.
Obviously can't speak to the validity of either claim, but you'd just hope that there was a good faith effort to investigate it.
*sigh*
Point being, one can't always immediately tell if something is a hate crime the same way one cannot always know if a crime is premeditated, unless they leave a very obvious trail.
Police are not going to immediately release the transcript of interrogation as much as they won't immediately release the specific findings of crime scene(s), due to the nature of all the variables involved. That's why there's an investigation.
They may also not choose to charge as a hate crime because of the additional legwork and time involved before trial since they may just want to get this violent 50-something in prison for the rest of its life as soon as possible. So don't take it too harshly...I'd probably wish for swifter justice than protracted agony if I were involved. We're not talking about a 20-year-old who could reach a parole board in 30-40 years.
* personal unprofessional opinion, I watched Law & Order once
Quote from: JayhawkCO on June 03, 2025, 10:21:08 AMObviously can't speak to the validity of either claim, but you'd just hope that there was a good faith effort to investigate it.
Certainly more than |LilianaUwU| did.
Quote from: kphoger on June 03, 2025, 10:55:45 AMQuote from: JayhawkCO on June 03, 2025, 10:21:08 AMObviously can't speak to the validity of either claim, but you'd just hope that there was a good faith effort to investigate it.
Certainly more than |LilianaUwU| did.
I mean, Joss' husband, who obviously knows the situation a whole lot better than you or I do says it played a part. I'm going to go ahead and give the benefit of the doubt to someone who was actually there.
Quote from: JayhawkCO on June 03, 2025, 11:12:57 AMI mean, Joss' husband, who obviously knows the situation a whole lot better than you or I do says it played a part. I'm going to go ahead and give the benefit of the doubt to someone who was actually there.
I'll give the benefit of the doubt to investigators, considering the potential for witness bias/prejudice on the part of his husband.
Quote from: kphoger on June 03, 2025, 11:19:25 AMQuote from: JayhawkCO on June 03, 2025, 11:12:57 AMI mean, Joss' husband, who obviously knows the situation a whole lot better than you or I do says it played a part. I'm going to go ahead and give the benefit of the doubt to someone who was actually there.
I'll give the benefit of the doubt to investigators, considering the potential for witness bias/prejudice on the part of his husband.
I dunno. Where there's smoke, there is quite often fire. While there is certainly bias/prejudice on the part of the husband, you're saying there's a 0% chance that homophobia played a part?
Let's say you had an issue with your neighbor and the neighbor had told you that he didn't like you and your wife because of your skin color. Later down the line, you get in some kind of argument with the neighbor and there's a shooting. When speaking to the media, your wife mentions the previous conversations about skin color. Wichita PD does a cursory investigation, and the investigation can't prove anything about the racial angle. Would it be reasonable to completely dismiss what your wife said to the media? I'd argue no.
Quote from: JayhawkCO on June 03, 2025, 11:31:41 AMyou're saying there's a 0% chance that homophobia played a part?
No. I'm not saying that at all. Tristan's account certainly makes it sound like a hate crime—and, indeed, his account describes some pretty sick stuff. But, considering that the police department's post was three hours later, what I am saying is that there's also not a 0% chance that it
wasn't a hate crime.
Quote from: JayhawkCO on June 03, 2025, 11:31:41 AMLet's say you had an issue with your neighbor and the neighbor had told you that he didn't like you and your wife because of your skin color. Later down the line, you get in some kind of argument with the neighbor and there's a shooting. When speaking to the media, your wife mentions the previous conversations about skin color. Wichita PD does a cursory investigation, and the investigation can't prove anything about the racial angle. Would it be reasonable to completely dismiss what your wife said to the media? I'd argue no.
Perfect analogy. Of course you're right that they shouldn't completely dismiss it. And that's why the police said, "SAPD investigators handle these allegations very seriously and have thoroughly reviewed all available information." Obviously they might not have all the information they need to get to the truth, but I'm certain they have more than you and I do.
Both of your points are not incongruent to anything I've said. I merely said that I hoped that the police department investigated in good faith.
That said, if I had a gun to my head and had to pick which I believed more - that homophobia played a role or that it didn't (based on the police investigation), I would certainly lean to the former.
Quote from: JayhawkCO on June 03, 2025, 12:01:12 PMBoth of your points are not incongruent to anything I've said. I merely said that I hoped that the police department investigated in good faith.
Yeah, I don't think we actually disagree. Doesn't keep us from arguing, though! :D
Quote from: JayhawkCO on June 03, 2025, 12:01:12 PMThat said, if I had a gun to my head ...
... then hopefully whoever was with you would push you out of the way in time, as Tristan claims Jonathan did for him.
From what I've read, Joss gave as good as he got to the neighbor up until the shooting. Apparently there was a good deal of mutual animosity. I trust the police to do a thorough investigation of the killing of such a high-profile individual whose death has sparked so much outrage from a segment of the population.
Quote from: hbelkins on June 03, 2025, 03:34:04 PMFrom what I've read, Joss gave as good as he got to the neighbor up until the shooting. Apparently there was a good deal of mutual animosity. I trust the police to do a thorough investigation of the killing of such a high-profile individual whose death has sparked so much outrage from a segment of the population.
Cite?
Man, I was gonna start a watch-through of King of the Hill very soon too.
Quote from: JayhawkCO on June 03, 2025, 04:20:10 PMQuote from: hbelkins on June 03, 2025, 03:34:04 PMFrom what I've read, Joss gave as good as he got to the neighbor up until the shooting. Apparently there was a good deal of mutual animosity. I trust the police to do a thorough investigation of the killing of such a high-profile individual whose death has sparked so much outrage from a segment of the population.
Cite?
Totallyrealnews.ru?
Quote from: JayhawkCO on June 03, 2025, 04:20:10 PMQuote from: hbelkins on June 03, 2025, 03:34:04 PMFrom what I've read, Joss gave as good as he got to the neighbor up until the shooting. Apparently there was a good deal of mutual animosity. I trust the police to do a thorough investigation of the killing of such a high-profile individual whose death has sparked so much outrage from a segment of the population.
Cite?
+1. For the record, my source is the post made by Joss' husband, which is as good as any other mainstream media source, if not better since his husband was directly involved.
Quote from: LilianaUwU on June 03, 2025, 05:24:07 PMQuote from: JayhawkCO on June 03, 2025, 04:20:10 PMQuote from: hbelkins on June 03, 2025, 03:34:04 PMFrom what I've read, Joss gave as good as he got to the neighbor up until the shooting. Apparently there was a good deal of mutual animosity. I trust the police to do a thorough investigation of the killing of such a high-profile individual whose death has sparked so much outrage from a segment of the population.
Cite?
+1. For the record, my source is the post made by Joss' husband, which is as good as any other mainstream media source, if not better since his husband was directly involved.
Here is a news source describing some sort of mutual disdain:
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/jonathan-joss-king-of-the-hill-voice-actor-killed-san-antonio/
FWIW, I have no dog in the fight here. I had no idea who Johnathan Joss was until this thread kept populating today. If this is ultimately determined to be a hate crime the responsible party should be appropriately criminally charged.
Quote from: LilianaUwU on June 03, 2025, 05:24:07 PMFor the record, my source is the post made by Joss' husband, which is as good as any other mainstream media source, if not better since his husband was directly involved.
While, as I said, his post does describe some sick stuff... the bolded phrase did make me wonder what, exactly, they were yelling.
QuoteThis caused both of us severe emotional distress. We began yelling and crying in response to the pain of what we saw.
While we were doing this a man approached us. He started yelling violent homophobic slurs at us. He then raised a gun from his lap and fired.
Yelling what? It's enough to make me suspect the encounter wasn't simply a one-sided provocation.
Quote from: formulanone on June 03, 2025, 10:26:24 AMPoint being, one can't always immediately tell if something is a hate crime the same way one cannot always know if a crime is premeditated, unless they leave a very obvious trail.
Police are not going to immediately release the transcript of interrogation as much as they won't immediately release the specific findings of crime scene(s), due to the nature of all the variables involved. That's why there's an investigation.
They may also not choose to charge as a hate crime because of the additional legwork and time involved before trial since they may just want to get this violent 50-something in prison for the rest of its life as soon as possible. So don't take it too harshly...I'd probably wish for swifter justice than protracted agony if I were involved. We're not talking about a 20-year-old who could reach a parole board in 30-40 years.
* personal unprofessional opinion, I watched Law & Order once
Okay, but the statement from the police department reads as though they're actively trying to refute the assertion that this was a hate crime. If they really just didn't know or didn't feel like doing the legwork to go down that prosecution path, they could have simply kept their mouth shut. The decision to make a statement is telling.
Also, it's a police department in Texas - a.k.a. a source that is likely to have a vested political interest in it not being considered a hate crime, so we can't take their word as unbiased.
That said, yes it is
possible that the victim being gay is a coincidence and not a motive. We would need to know more details to determine for sure. Those details should at least come out in court one way or another.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on June 03, 2025, 05:30:08 PMHere is a news source describing some sort of mutual disdain:
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/jonathan-joss-king-of-the-hill-voice-actor-killed-san-antonio/
Maybe I define things differently, but I consider "often facing off with weapons" to be "violent"...
QuoteNeighbors told KENS-TV that Joss had a longstanding neighborhood feud with Alvarez and that the two men often argued and faced off with weapons. The neighbors said the men's confrontations never turned violent until Sunday.
Quote from: kphoger on June 03, 2025, 05:54:06 PMQuote from: Max Rockatansky on June 03, 2025, 05:30:08 PMHere is a news source describing some sort of mutual disdain:
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/jonathan-joss-king-of-the-hill-voice-actor-killed-san-antonio/
Maybe I define things differently, but I consider "often facing off with weapons" to be "violent"...
QuoteNeighbors told KENS-TV that Joss had a longstanding neighborhood feud with Alvarez and that the two men often argued and faced off with weapons. The neighbors said the men's confrontations never turned violent until Sunday.
That was my takeaway.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on June 03, 2025, 06:07:59 PMQuote from: kphoger on June 03, 2025, 05:54:06 PMQuote from: Max Rockatansky on June 03, 2025, 05:30:08 PMHere is a news source describing some sort of mutual disdain:
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/jonathan-joss-king-of-the-hill-voice-actor-killed-san-antonio/
Maybe I define things differently, but I consider "often facing off with weapons" to be "violent"...
QuoteNeighbors told KENS-TV that Joss had a longstanding neighborhood feud with Alvarez and that the two men often argued and faced off with weapons. The neighbors said the men's confrontations never turned violent until Sunday.
That was my takeaway.
I feel the need to mention that Joss' husband claimed that their house was burned down after threats from "people in the area who repeatedly told [them] they would set it on fire".
Quote from: LilianaUwU on June 03, 2025, 06:15:56 PMQuote from: Max Rockatansky on June 03, 2025, 06:07:59 PMQuote from: kphoger on June 03, 2025, 05:54:06 PMQuote from: Max Rockatansky on June 03, 2025, 05:30:08 PMHere is a news source describing some sort of mutual disdain:
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/jonathan-joss-king-of-the-hill-voice-actor-killed-san-antonio/
Maybe I define things differently, but I consider "often facing off with weapons" to be "violent"...
QuoteNeighbors told KENS-TV that Joss had a longstanding neighborhood feud with Alvarez and that the two men often argued and faced off with weapons. The neighbors said the men's confrontations never turned violent until Sunday.
That was my takeaway.
I feel the need to mention that Joss' husband claimed that their house was burned down after threats from "people in the area who repeatedly told [them] they would set it on fire".
I'm not disputing that he said that and that it could be true. Then again nobody involved in this seems to be really all that stable.
"Often faced off with weapons" seems like a pretty plausible way to describe one person threatening someone and the other having a baseball bat or something for protection in response. Why not the other way around? Well, because the one who was allegedly threatening was just charged with murder.
Again, I can't say with certainty either way, but Occam's Razor says that there was probably some motive in Mr. Alvarez' actions outside of "just don't like that guy. Want to kill him."
I'm curious as to who was calling the police to do mental welfare checks at tbe Joss residence. Has anyone seen anything regarding who was calling those in?
Quote from: Duke87 on June 03, 2025, 05:47:25 PMQuote from: formulanone on June 03, 2025, 10:26:24 AMPoint being, one can't always immediately tell if something is a hate crime the same way one cannot always know if a crime is premeditated, unless they leave a very obvious trail.
Police are not going to immediately release the transcript of interrogation as much as they won't immediately release the specific findings of crime scene(s), due to the nature of all the variables involved. That's why there's an investigation.
They may also not choose to charge as a hate crime because of the additional legwork and time involved before trial since they may just want to get this violent 50-something in prison for the rest of its life as soon as possible. So don't take it too harshly...I'd probably wish for swifter justice than protracted agony if I were involved. We're not talking about a 20-year-old who could reach a parole board in 30-40 years.
* personal unprofessional opinion, I watched Law & Order once
Okay, but the statement from the police department reads as though they're actively trying to refute the assertion that this was a hate crime. If they really just didn't know or didn't feel like doing the legwork to go down that prosecution path, they could have simply kept their mouth shut. The decision to make a statement is telling.
Also, it's a police department in Texas - a.k.a. a source that is likely to have a vested political interest in it not being considered a hate crime, so we can't take their word as unbiased.
That said, yes it is possible that the victim being gay is a coincidence and not a motive. We would need to know more details to determine for sure. Those details should at least come out in court one way or another.
That was my suspicion as well, but didn't want to accuse until more information comes out. Having a city getting branded with a higher-profile hate crime is a bad look.
I'm also not going pretend that I know what constitutes which level or type of crime from another.
https://bsky.app/profile/ultimateoutsider.bsky.social/post/3lqqemplres2r
Quote from: SEWIGuy on June 03, 2025, 07:58:06 PMhttps://bsky.app/profile/ultimateoutsider.bsky.social/post/3lqqemplres2r
- tweet
- tweet screenshot
- tweet screenshot posted to reddit
- screenshot of reddit post of tweet screenshot
- screenshot of reddit post of tweet screenshot posted to bluesky
- screenshot of reddit post of tweet screenshot posted to bluesky linked to aaroads
Welcome to the future!
Quote from: thspfc on June 03, 2025, 08:02:39 PMQuote from: SEWIGuy on June 03, 2025, 07:58:06 PMhttps://bsky.app/profile/ultimateoutsider.bsky.social/post/3lqqemplres2r
- tweet
- tweet screenshot
- tweet screenshot posted to reddit
- screenshot of reddit post of tweet screenshot
- screenshot of reddit post of tweet screenshot posted to bluesky
- screenshot of reddit post of tweet screenshot posted to bluesky linked to aaroads
Welcome to the future!
- said link now quoted twice within AARoads! :awesomeface:
By the way, the linked thread in that has a point. Mainstream media is a mouthpiece of the police, and they repeat police lies (i.e. refuting the claim made by the person who was there and knows what happened) without even mentioning it's a lie.
I don't know if the police are lying here or not. It would be terrible if they are hiding a larger crime. Jonathan Joss certainly didn't deserve to get shot and killed one way or another.
That said, it sure seems like some of Joss's actions might seem to suggest he had some degree of anger management issues. It isn't normal to confront your neighbor multiple times with weapons or have the police called to your home dozens of times (who was calling?). There isn't a lot of information to go on but it doesn't look like either party was willing to back down from the argument on the day of the murder. Regardless of the larger motivation that ended up with one person dead.
Joss didn't deserve to be murdered and his killer should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.
Whether or not there was a history of violent confrontations from both parties, or his husband is accurate that the neighbors didn't like them because of their relationship, or maybe a little of both, I am fine waiting until the investigation takes place before having an opinion.
How long until this thread gets locked?
Quote from: SEWIGuy on June 04, 2025, 09:08:49 AMJoss didn't deserve to be murdered and his killer should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.
Whether or not there was a history of violent confrontations from both parties, or his husband is accurate that the neighbors didn't like them because of their relationship, or maybe a little of both, I am fine waiting until the investigation takes place before having an opinion.
This. Which would include interviewing all witnesses, not just those with an inherent bias, and taking the statement of the accused if he chooses to make one. Plus, it's San Antonio, not some small-town Texas police department.
As I originally said, the scrutiny being applied online by a vocal segment of the population will ensure a thorough investigation.
FWIW, I'd never heard of Joss until this happened.
Quote from: LilianaUwU on June 04, 2025, 01:38:25 AMBy the way, the linked thread in that has a point. Mainstream media is a mouthpiece of the police, and they repeat police lies (i.e. refuting the claim made by the person who was there and knows what happened) without even mentioning it's a lie.
So... The police lie, therefore their word should not be trusted. The mainstream media merely publish what the police say without investigating, therefore their word should not be trusted. But the husband's word should be trusted 100% without question. Yeah, that's the not the lens through which I view the world.
Tristan's Facebook post (which is not a sworn statement to the police) said that Jonathan "was murdered by someone who could not stand the sight of two men loving each other". Somewhere around 30% of Americans do not think homosexuality is morally acceptable, and some unknown percentage of those Americans are disturbed loudmouth dickheads with guns. But that doesn't automatically make every crime committed by them a hate crime.
Maybe this was a hate crime. But Sigfredo's anti-gay bent doesn't automatically make it one.
Need evidence that there may have been more than just Joss's sexuality at play? How about the below:
Quote from: The Independent — 03 MAY 2025Over the past 36 hours, local residents have recounted tales of Joss having been, alternately, "really sweet," then at times wandering down the street "ranting and raving." One called Joss "erratic," and claimed he told people that "he was God." Another neighbor shared a video with local CBS affiliate KENS, purportedly showing Joss walking back and forth with a pitchfork, screaming. ... "I don't care if me and my husband were walking around with one pitchfork in our hand and another pitchfork up our a**, we didn't point any weapons at anybody," Kern de Gonzales told The Independent.
Quote from: NBC News — 04 JUN 2025Police records obtained by NBC News and interviews with Kern de Gonzales and the pair's neighbors paint a complicated picture of what led up to the voice actor's tragic killing. ...
Police were called to respond to incidents at their home more than four dozen times, according to call logs obtained by NBC News, with most of the calls labeled as "disturbances."
One of the pair's neighbors, who asked that their name not be shared due to fear of retaliation, said Joss was difficult to live by.
"He's been a nightmare," the neighbor said.
Kern de Gonzales acknowledged that his husband had a tendency to be "loud."
"Me and Jonathan would be out there late at night playing the drums, singing, being a nuisance," Kern de Gonzales said. "If you're going to make it hard for us to live here, you ain't going to get no sleep." ...
In June 2024, Ceja told police that Joss approached his house with a crossbow and hurled racial slurs at him, according to a separate police report. ...
And in January, Joss accused Ceja of burning their house down, according to police records.
Joss told police that on the morning of the fire, he was using a barbecue in his living room because he did not have heat or electricity, according to the report. However, he said he turned the barbecue off before leaving the house to get lunch.
Quote from: LilianaUwU on June 03, 2025, 06:15:56 PMI feel the need to mention that Joss' husband claimed that their house was burned down after threats from "people in the area who repeatedly told [them] they would set it on fire".
I feel the need to mention that Joss admitted they had been using a barbecue grill in their living room the morning of the house fire. They left at noon to get some lunch and, when they returned two hours later, their house was on fire. Even though they said they were sure they'd extinguished the grill before leaving the house, Joss told reporters, "It was my fault", and, "Very easily it could have started because of my stupidity". But then, because someone reported having seen Álvarez Ceja on their property the day before, they blamed him for the fire instead.
Technically, I guess, what Kern de Gonzales said is true: the house did burn down at a chronologically subsequent point in time...
I don't think the person behind the murder is behind the arson too, if it's even an arson case. It would make sense, don't get me wrong, but this is one thing I'll have to say I don't think is able to be 100% confirmed. It could always be a different neighbor, or as you said, a BBQ mishap.
With that said, the thing with the skull and bones of the dog is fucked up, no matter the intent.
Quote from: LilianaUwU on June 04, 2025, 05:46:42 PMWith that said, the thing with the skull and bones of the dog is fucked up, no matter the intent.
At first, I wondered how they could possibly identify the skull as their dog's. But then, with the harness being there too, I guess the inference would have been easy to make.
Yeah, whoever did that was one sick dude.
(https://thumbs.dreamstime.com/z/lock-road-sign-as-vector-illustration-lock-road-sign-151492681.jpg)
I don't think anything has been said in this thread that has been lock worthy. If anything the story just got broken down pretty thoroughly with the currently available information.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on June 04, 2025, 06:10:04 PMI don't think anything has been said in this thread that has been lock worthy. If anything the story just got broken down pretty thoroughly with the currently available information
Right. And everyone has been very respectful here thoughout.
I don't get why people post about locking the topic anyway. If it is inappropriate...report it. If the topic doesn't interest you...ignore it.
[youtube]
This contains some information I hadn't heard elsewhere, along with some that I had.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on June 04, 2025, 06:10:04 PMI don't think anything has been said in this thread that has been lock worthy.
Quote from: hbelkins on June 05, 2025, 01:55:18 PM[youtube
Welp, there went that.
(By the way, I'm not about to watch an hour-long video on this.)
Quote from: kphoger on June 05, 2025, 02:31:36 PMQuote from: Max Rockatansky on June 04, 2025, 06:10:04 PMI don't think anything has been said in this thread that has been lock worthy.
Quote from: hbelkins on June 05, 2025, 01:55:18 PM[youtube
Welp, there went that.
(By the way, I'm not about to watch an hour-long video on this.)
Yeah...fair chance that was straw that broke the camel's back.
Matt Walsh is a white nationalist. Linking him has no place here.
Quote from: hbelkins on June 05, 2025, 01:55:18 PM[youtube]
This contains some information I hadn't heard elsewhere, along with some that I had.
Jeez. Thanks for pissing in the pool. Matt Walsh?