RIP Jonathan Joss

[LilianaUwU]

Jonathan Joss, known for his roles in King of the Hill and Parks and Rec, was murdered on Saturday by his homophobic neighbor, 56-year-old Sigfredo Alvarez Cejam.

https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2025/jun/02/jonathan-joss-king-hill-actor-killed-shooting

[formulanone]

Sadly, some terrible people are also very dangerous assholes with a disdain for others' lives.

[Henry]

That show is certainly cursed, with the voices of Dale, Lucky, Luanne and now John having passed away. But at least Dale will be recast in midseason so that he'll be allowed to continue as part of the main cast.

RIP Jonathan Joss

[kphoger]

murdered on Saturday by his homophobic neighbor

Despite online claims of this being a hate crime, currently the investigation has found no evidence to indicate that the Mr. Joss's murder was related to his sexual orientation.

*sigh*

[JayhawkCO]

murdered on Saturday by his homophobic neighbor

Despite online claims of this being a hate crime, currently the investigation has found no evidence to indicate that the Mr. Joss's murder was related to his sexual orientation.

*sigh*

Obviously can't speak to the validity of either claim, but you'd just hope that there was a good faith effort to investigate it.

[formulanone]

murdered on Saturday by his homophobic neighbor

Despite online claims of this being a hate crime, currently the investigation has found no evidence to indicate that the Mr. Joss's murder was related to his sexual orientation.

Obviously can't speak to the validity of either claim, but you'd just hope that there was a good faith effort to investigate it.

*sigh*

Point being, one can't always immediately tell if something is a hate crime the same way one cannot always know if a crime is premeditated, unless they leave a very obvious trail.

Police are not going to immediately release the transcript of interrogation as much as they won't immediately release the specific findings of crime scene(s), due to the nature of all the variables involved. That's why there's an investigation.

They may also not choose to charge as a hate crime because of the additional legwork and time involved before trial since they may just want to get this violent 50-something in prison for the rest of its life as soon as possible. So don't take it too harshly...I'd probably wish for swifter justice than protracted agony if I were involved. We're not talking about a 20-year-old who could reach a parole board in 30-40 years.

* personal unprofessional opinion, I watched Law & Order once

[kphoger]

Obviously can't speak to the validity of either claim, but you'd just hope that there was a good faith effort to investigate it.

Certainly more than |LilianaUwU| did.

[JayhawkCO]

Obviously can't speak to the validity of either claim, but you'd just hope that there was a good faith effort to investigate it.

Certainly more than |LilianaUwU| did.

I mean, Joss' husband, who obviously knows the situation a whole lot better than you or I do says it played a part. I'm going to go ahead and give the benefit of the doubt to someone who was actually there.

[kphoger]

I mean, Joss' husband, who obviously knows the situation a whole lot better than you or I do says it played a part. I'm going to go ahead and give the benefit of the doubt to someone who was actually there.

I'll give the benefit of the doubt to investigators, considering the potential for witness bias/prejudice on the part of his husband.

[JayhawkCO]

I mean, Joss' husband, who obviously knows the situation a whole lot better than you or I do says it played a part. I'm going to go ahead and give the benefit of the doubt to someone who was actually there.

I'll give the benefit of the doubt to investigators, considering the potential for witness bias/prejudice on the part of his husband.

I dunno. Where there's smoke, there is quite often fire. While there is certainly bias/prejudice on the part of the husband, you're saying there's a 0% chance that homophobia played a part?

Let's say you had an issue with your neighbor and the neighbor had told you that he didn't like you and your wife because of your skin color. Later down the line, you get in some kind of argument with the neighbor and there's a shooting. When speaking to the media, your wife mentions the previous conversations about skin color. Wichita PD does a cursory investigation, and the investigation can't prove anything about the racial angle. Would it be reasonable to completely dismiss what your wife said to the media? I'd argue no.

[kphoger]

you're saying there's a 0% chance that homophobia played a part?

No.  I'm not saying that at all.  Tristan's account certainly makes it sound like a hate crime—and, indeed, his account describes some pretty sick stuff.  But, considering that the police department's post was three hours later, what I am saying is that there's also not a 0% chance that it wasn't a hate crime.

Let's say you had an issue with your neighbor and the neighbor had told you that he didn't like you and your wife because of your skin color. Later down the line, you get in some kind of argument with the neighbor and there's a shooting. When speaking to the media, your wife mentions the previous conversations about skin color. Wichita PD does a cursory investigation, and the investigation can't prove anything about the racial angle. Would it be reasonable to completely dismiss what your wife said to the media? I'd argue no.

Perfect analogy.  Of course you're right that they shouldn't completely dismiss it.  And that's why the police said, "SAPD investigators handle these allegations very seriously and have thoroughly reviewed all available information."  Obviously they might not have all the information they need to get to the truth, but I'm certain they have more than you and I do.

[JayhawkCO]

Both of your points are not incongruent to anything I've said. I merely said that I hoped that the police department investigated in good faith.

That said, if I had a gun to my head and had to pick which I believed more - that homophobia played a role or that it didn't (based on the police investigation), I would certainly lean to the former.

[kphoger]

Both of your points are not incongruent to anything I've said. I merely said that I hoped that the police department investigated in good faith.

Yeah, I don't think we actually disagree.  Doesn't keep us from arguing, though! 

That said, if I had a gun to my head ...

... then hopefully whoever was with you would push you out of the way in time, as Tristan claims Jonathan did for him.

[hbelkins]

From what I've read, Joss gave as good as he got to the neighbor up until the shooting. Apparently there was a good deal of mutual animosity. I trust the police to do a thorough investigation of the killing of such a high-profile individual whose death has sparked so much outrage from a segment of the population.

[JayhawkCO]

From what I've read, Joss gave as good as he got to the neighbor up until the shooting. Apparently there was a good deal of mutual animosity. I trust the police to do a thorough investigation of the killing of such a high-profile individual whose death has sparked so much outrage from a segment of the population.

Cite?

[Hunty2022]

Man, I was gonna start a watch-through of King of the Hill very soon too.

[NE2]

From what I've read, Joss gave as good as he got to the neighbor up until the shooting. Apparently there was a good deal of mutual animosity. I trust the police to do a thorough investigation of the killing of such a high-profile individual whose death has sparked so much outrage from a segment of the population.

Cite?

Totallyrealnews.ru?

[LilianaUwU]

From what I've read, Joss gave as good as he got to the neighbor up until the shooting. Apparently there was a good deal of mutual animosity. I trust the police to do a thorough investigation of the killing of such a high-profile individual whose death has sparked so much outrage from a segment of the population.

Cite?

+1. For the record, my source is the post made by Joss' husband, which is as good as any other mainstream media source, if not better since his husband was directly involved.

[Max Rockatansky]

From what I've read, Joss gave as good as he got to the neighbor up until the shooting. Apparently there was a good deal of mutual animosity. I trust the police to do a thorough investigation of the killing of such a high-profile individual whose death has sparked so much outrage from a segment of the population.

Cite?

+1. For the record, my source is the post made by Joss' husband, which is as good as any other mainstream media source, if not better since his husband was directly involved.

Here is a news source describing some sort of mutual disdain:

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/jonathan-joss-king-of-the-hill-voice-actor-killed-san-antonio/

FWIW, I have no dog in the fight here.  I had no idea who Johnathan Joss was until this thread kept populating today.  If this is ultimately determined to be a hate crime the responsible party should be appropriately criminally charged.

[kphoger]

For the record, my source is the post made by Joss' husband, which is as good as any other mainstream media source, if not better since his husband was directly involved.

While, as I said, his post does describe some sick stuff...  the bolded phrase did make me wonder what, exactly, they were yelling.

This caused both of us severe emotional distress. We began yelling and crying in response to the pain of what we saw.

While we were doing this a man approached us. He started yelling violent homophobic slurs at us. He then raised a gun from his lap and fired.

Yelling what?  It's enough to make me suspect the encounter wasn't simply a one-sided provocation.

[Duke87]

Point being, one can't always immediately tell if something is a hate crime the same way one cannot always know if a crime is premeditated, unless they leave a very obvious trail.

Police are not going to immediately release the transcript of interrogation as much as they won't immediately release the specific findings of crime scene(s), due to the nature of all the variables involved. That's why there's an investigation.

They may also not choose to charge as a hate crime because of the additional legwork and time involved before trial since they may just want to get this violent 50-something in prison for the rest of its life as soon as possible. So don't take it too harshly...I'd probably wish for swifter justice than protracted agony if I were involved. We're not talking about a 20-year-old who could reach a parole board in 30-40 years.

* personal unprofessional opinion, I watched Law & Order once

Okay, but the statement from the police department reads as though they're actively trying to refute the assertion that this was a hate crime. If they really just didn't know or didn't feel like doing the legwork to go down that prosecution path, they could have simply kept their mouth shut. The decision to make a statement is telling.

Also, it's a police department in Texas - a.k.a. a source that is likely to have a vested political interest in it not being considered a hate crime, so we can't take their word as unbiased.

That said, yes it is possible that the victim being gay is a coincidence and not a motive. We would need to know more details to determine for sure. Those details should at least come out in court one way or another.

[kphoger]

Here is a news source describing some sort of mutual disdain:

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/jonathan-joss-king-of-the-hill-voice-actor-killed-san-antonio/

Maybe I define things differently, but I consider "often facing off with weapons" to be "violent"...

Neighbors told KENS-TV that Joss had a longstanding neighborhood feud with Alvarez and that the two men often argued and faced off with weapons. The neighbors said the men's confrontations never turned violent until Sunday.

[Max Rockatansky]

Here is a news source describing some sort of mutual disdain:

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/jonathan-joss-king-of-the-hill-voice-actor-killed-san-antonio/

Maybe I define things differently, but I consider "often facing off with weapons" to be "violent"...

Neighbors told KENS-TV that Joss had a longstanding neighborhood feud with Alvarez and that the two men often argued and faced off with weapons. The neighbors said the men's confrontations never turned violent until Sunday.

That was my takeaway.

[LilianaUwU]

Here is a news source describing some sort of mutual disdain:

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/jonathan-joss-king-of-the-hill-voice-actor-killed-san-antonio/

Maybe I define things differently, but I consider "often facing off with weapons" to be "violent"...

Neighbors told KENS-TV that Joss had a longstanding neighborhood feud with Alvarez and that the two men often argued and faced off with weapons. The neighbors said the men's confrontations never turned violent until Sunday.

That was my takeaway.

I feel the need to mention that Joss' husband claimed that their house was burned down after threats from "people in the area who repeatedly told [them] they would set it on fire".

[Max Rockatansky]

Here is a news source describing some sort of mutual disdain:

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/jonathan-joss-king-of-the-hill-voice-actor-killed-san-antonio/

Maybe I define things differently, but I consider "often facing off with weapons" to be "violent"...

Neighbors told KENS-TV that Joss had a longstanding neighborhood feud with Alvarez and that the two men often argued and faced off with weapons. The neighbors said the men's confrontations never turned violent until Sunday.

That was my takeaway.

I feel the need to mention that Joss' husband claimed that their house was burned down after threats from "people in the area who repeatedly told [them] they would set it on fire".

I'm not disputing that he said that and that it could be true.  Then again nobody involved in this seems to be really all that stable.