AARoads Forum

PennDOT has announced that later this year, the Interstate 376 designation will finally be extended.  While it was expected around New Year's Day, Dan Cessna says that contracts will be awarded in Allegheny County to bring it up to standards and that will allow the Department of Transportation to apply for the designation extension this Spring.  However, signage might not change until next year.

http://www.timesonline.com/articles/2009/02/18/news/doc499cab6897c36904400377.txt (http://www.timesonline.com/articles/2009/02/18/news/doc499cab6897c36904400377.txt)

[Added post icon. -S.]

So I guess we get to say goodbye to Interstate 279 then? Hmmm...

If PennDOT wanted to have this part of PA 60 designated an interstate highway, fine, but why must it be an extension of Interstate 376? So I guess the country is about to have two odd 3di's that touch their parent interstate in two places (I-520 in GA and SC being the other). This just helps the theory that the federal government can no longer create new interstate numbers, just extend old ones...

So, now we'll have a spur interstate that connects twice with its parent.

The east end meets up with I-76/PA TPK at Exit 57 (Monroeville) and it will cross I-76/TPK at Exit 10 before ending at I-80's Exit 4.

So, south of I-76 exit 10, it will be more like an even-numbered 3di (276, 476, 676) and north of that like an odd-numbered  3di (176, 376).

I don't think I-376 quite fits the new routing.  But, then again you have I-476 at the other end of the state as another hybrid loop/spur route and the infamous I-99.

Plus, I can't think of an I-xxx numbering that would work better.

Any ideas?

(I see flaroadgeek just posted with a similar message.)

Quote from: flaroadgeek on February 19, 2009, 10:42:55 PM
So I guess we get to say goodbye to Interstate 279 then? Hmmm...

There would still be the section of I-279 from exit 72 on I-79 south toward downtown and the I-376 junction.

Exactly. Yet another 3di interstate truncated and replaced, this time by another 3di!! All I have to say is insane. Once again I agree with Mightyace, this extension should be an even 3di. It could easily be an even I-x79, I-x80 or even have I-876, but not I-376.

Actually, I was trying to say that I don't like either an even or odd 3di for this route, but an even 3di would be less objectionable to me.

Two other goofy thing about this proposed routing.

First is that the proposed longer I-376 runs basically east-west on its current alignment and out to the Pittsburgh airport.  After that, it is basically north-south.  Will they try to shoehorn one set of cardinal directions on it (like Pittsburgh's current I-279 N/S or I-180 E/W near Williamsport) or will they have it switch directional orientation like many beltways do.

Second, the middle section of this route is a toll road.  How are they going to get away with that?

They could have resurrected I-876.  I guess PennDOT figures why redesignate the Parkway East a fourth time.

Frankly I think the extension is ridiculous which I mentioned in a blog entry (http://www.pahighways.com/blog/archives/2006/03.html) three years ago when the plan was announced, and proven by the Beaver County Commissioner's statement.

Quote from: mightyace on February 19, 2009, 11:06:54 PM
Actually, I was trying to say that I don't like either an even or odd 3di for this route, but an even 3di would be less objectionable to me.

I apologize for that. I've got too many things going on at the moment and really only glanced at what you had written before. Sorry about that  :pan:

How about Pennsylvania 376 west of Interstate 79 and Interstate 376 east of Interstate 79? *ducks*  :pan:

Or they could just leave it as it is so Interstate 279 doesn't have to get truncated and Interstate 376 still serves as a spur route into Pittsburgh from the east... :-o

Anyone got an exit number list for I-376 and I-279 for after the extension?

I did some googling last night and answered my own questions.

Quote from: mightyace on February 19, 2009, 11:06:54 PM
Two other goofy thing about this proposed routing.

First is that the proposed longer I-376 runs basically east-west on its current alignment and out to the Pittsburgh airport.  After that, it is basically north-south.  Will they try to shoehorn one set of cardinal directions on it (like Pittsburgh's current I-279 N/S or I-180 E/W near Williamsport) or will they have it switch directional orientation like many beltways do.

According to Wikipedia, the highway will be signed east-west from the airport through Pittsburgh to Monroeville and north-south from the I-80 through New Castle to the airport.

Quote from: mightyace on February 19, 2009, 11:06:54 PM
Second, the middle section of this route is a toll road.  How are they going to get away with that?

Well, like I-99, the I-376 designation was set via Congressional legislation.

Quote from: treichard on February 20, 2009, 03:50:53 PM
Anyone got an exit number list for I-376 and I-279 for after the extension?

The exit list is easy.  I think that PAHighways probably has most of that already on existing freeway pages.

The rub lies in the mileage numbering.  The standard convention is for mileage to start at 0 at the south end of a north-south highway and at the west end of an east-west highway.  With the split N/S and E/W signing (see post above), these 0 points come at the airport where the direction changes.

I doubt that even PennDOT is stupid enough to have two numbering for one highway unless they leave up the existing exit numbers!  :crazy:

This means that if the 0 mile is at I-80, the N/S section will be numbered in the wrong direction but the east-west part through Pittsburgh will be OK.  Conversely, if the 0 mile is at I-76 in Monroeville, the east-west section will be wrong and the north-south section will be OK.

I think the extension should and I-376 should be renumbered as another I-280.  Or maybe number the part west of I-79 as I-79W.  Or extend PA 576 north along PA 60, with PA 60 between I-79 and Turnpike 576 becoming a westward extension of I-279.

Quote from: mightyace on February 20, 2009, 04:30:14 PM

Quote from: treichard on February 20, 2009, 03:50:53 PM
Anyone got an exit number list for I-376 and I-279 for after the extension?

The exit list is easy.  I think that PAHighways probably has most of that already on existing freeway pages.

I have the current numbers but won't update the new numbers until they physically change.

I live nearby, and the arguments for I-376 are the complete opposite the arguments here.

The two main reasons for the renumbering were to:

A) Put the airport on an interstate, rather than PA-60.

B) To give one direct route # to the airport from Monroeville.

Previously, you'd take I-376 to I-279 South, to US22/US30 West, to PA-60 North. Without ever exiting the highway. Adding more new numbers doesn't solve that problem. Therefore, whatever number goes from downtown to I-79, had to continue to the airport.

There's no sense ending it at the airport when there's still more freeway for it to travel to I-80. Also, if you just throw a new number on, from Monroeville, you still have three different numbers for the same highway.

I-279 wouldn't make sense, as it would never reconnect with I-279 to form a true complete loop. And without renumbering the current I-376 portion, it made sense to simply extend it through downtown, through the Fort Pitt Tunnels along I-279 (the Parkway West), and out to the airport and beyond.

In a sense, it still is a spur. The fact it crosses its parent at another point is irrelevant.

At least this way, the Parkway East and Parkway West will both be on an east-west route (which I presume it will be labeled). Telling people I-279 south is 'west' and I-279 North is 'east' is not easy, just as is explaining the I-376/I-279/US20-30/PA60 dilemma.

Sykotyk

I mention the airport reason as well in my blog entry.  Former US Representative Melissa Hart once said, "We have the only international airport not served by an Interstate" but forgot that right outside the nation's capital is one not served by an Interstate.  I doubt that was one of the reasons USAirways de-hubbed PIA.

Leaving the airport, there are two options: Beaver/Moon and Pittsburgh. If one follows the signs for Pittsburgh, and don't take any exits, you'll end up in downtown no matter what the designation.

So, that would make I-376 over 80 miles long. Another 3di longer than I-97.

The numbering would be a bit goofy but then again it would be hard to make it not goofy given its nature. You could just make the new portion a new number (479?), but then you'd have a highway just spontaneously changing numbers upon crossing I-79 and while that might make the numbering fit the convention a bit better it would be far more confusing to motorists.

Personally, I think continuity in designation is more important than convention compliance in designation. If it's the same continuous highway, it shouldn't have two different numbers for different parts of it.

As for the exit numbers, considering that the N/S portion would be longer than the E/W portion, presumably you'd put the 0 milepost over on the east side of Pittsburgh and number it from south to north.

Make the entire route  a 3d 79 or 80 and it would work better...or  extend 279 the entire new route and leave 376 where it is currently.

...or just create I-980 or I-979 that runs from I-80 and ends at the current I-79/279/US-22/30 (Parkway West) interchange and leave the current I-279 be.

I think the mistake made here was that PA 60 should be a 3di interstate with I-79 being the parent. US 22 from Monroeville to Harrisburg should be a I-78 western extension and signing I-78 through downtown Pittsburgh would phase out I-376 and make PA 60 turn into I-379. The most important interstate corridor that doesn't exist is I-78 and it is even more important than the new I-73/74 corridor in the south.

So the ancient signs on PA 60 near New Castle will finally bite the dust?

From PAHighways:
I mention the airport reason as well in my blog entry.  Former US Representative Melissa Hart once said, "We have the only international airport not served by an Interstate" but forgot that right outside the nation's capital is one not served by an Interstate.  I doubt that was one of the reasons USAirways de-hubbed PIA.

This isn't even the only one in her state not served by an Interstate.  Harrisburg's airport is accessible from PA 283 and a connector spur.

Quote from: Truvelo on April 09, 2009, 12:34:46 PMSo the ancient signs on PA 60 near New Castle will finally bite the dust?

Yes those "factory originals" will be replaced.  Work will begin this fall to rehab interchanges on 60 between Beaver and Mercer Counties, and part of the project includes upgrading signage.

I think the relevant contract is SR 0060 Section B28 (ECMS 76610).  It has 122 sheets of signing plans but (cue long gusty sigh) whoever plotted them failed to make sure the CAD program had access to the Clearview fonts.

QuoteThis isn't even the only one in her state  not served by an Interstate.  Harrisburg's airport is accessible from PA 283 and a connector spur.

Then JFK is the only airport served by an Interstate.  Because Harrisburg's airport is no more than a mile or two off of I-283 (and I-76).  That connector is just east of I-283.

My original quote:
This isn't even the only one in her state  not served by an Interstate.  Harrisburg's airport is accessible from PA 283 and a connector spur.
From AlpsROADS:
Then JFK is the only airport served by an Interstate.  Because Harrisburg's airport is no more than a mile or two off of I-283 (and I-76).  That connector is just east of I-283.

I suppose it is a matter of interpretation.  Some airports have interstates going right into the terminals, like I-678 into JFK and I-195 into BWI.  Some have ramps that go directly into the airport, such as from I-95 to PHL, I-80 into SLC, and (I think) I-10 into PHX.  Harrisburg's, while close to two interstates, does not fit strictly into either category.  Just my opinion. . .

Rochester's airport is really close to I-390.  It's within 1/3 of a mile of the interchange with NY 204.  And NY 204 was supposed to be a freeway that would serve the airport (now it's a freeway stub that serves a warehouse at it's western end).

I-190 in Chicago goes right into O'Hare.

"I mention the airport reason as well in my blog entry.  Former US Representative Melissa Hart once said, "We have the only international airport not served by an Interstate" but forgot that right outside the nation's capital is one not served by an Interstate.  I doubt that was one of the reasons USAirways de-hubbed PIA."

Does this lady live under a rock? Orlando has no interstate connection to its international airport either.

Quote from: florida on April 22, 2009, 07:39:32 PM
"I mention the airport reason as well in my blog entry.  Former US Representative Melissa Hart once said, "We have the only international airport not served by an Interstate" but forgot that right outside the nation's capital is one not served by an Interstate.  I doubt that was one of the reasons USAirways de-hubbed PIA."

Does this lady live under a rock? Orlando has no interstate connection to its international airport either.

Probably now since she lost this past election to the person who unseated her the year I wrote that blog entry.

^^ I would hope so. What a disgrace full of misinformation.

^^ or ignorance and incompetence.

I was out in Pittsburgh recently, and some of the signs seem to have been changed to reflect I-376's future extension.  I don't remember the exact location - think it was on SB/WB/whatever the Turnpike to downtown direction of PA 28 is  near I-279 - or have photos - it's hard enough to drive Pittsburgh without trying to work a camera.  There was a "To West [I-376 shield]" that seemed to be replacing SB I-279.

I know the sign you're speaking of, on southbound 28 just before the 279/579 interchange.  It reads "I-279 South to I-376 West - Ft Pitt Bridge" and "I-579 South to I-376 East - Veterans Bridge" and has been there since at least December.

Quote from: akotchi on April 09, 2009, 12:53:29 PM
From PAHighways:
I mention the airport reason as well in my blog entry.  Former US Representative Melissa Hart once said, "We have the only international airport not served by an Interstate" but forgot that right outside the nation's capital is one not served by an Interstate.  I doubt that was one of the reasons USAirways de-hubbed PIA.

This isn't even the only one in her state not served by an Interstate.  Harrisburg's airport is accessible from PA 283 and a connector spur.

Make that 3 for PA....Allentown (Lehigh Valley International) isn't directly connected to I-78 or 476 either. 

don't forget all of the international airports in, say Montana, that have one flight a day to Moose Jaw. 

Another step closer:  PennDOT Awards Contract for US 22/US 30-PA 60 Interchange Rebuild (http://www.dot.state.pa.us/penndot/districts/district11.nsf/37fc68a0aa7b94e9852570a70047899c/5a1e330a036a7212852575c400505492?OpenDocument)

Quote from: froggie on May 29, 2009, 10:57:57 PM

QuoteAnother step closer:  PennDOT Awards Contract for US 22/US 30-PA 60 Interchange Rebuild

Are they rebuilding it as-is, or will it include some actual improvements upon the existing design?

Last I heard it would be a total rebuild but still be a cloverleaf with improvements to traffic flow at the on/off ramps of Exit 1 of PA 60.

Eastern I-72!

Will BUS PA 60 become BL 376?

Quote from: signalman on May 29, 2009, 03:34:45 PM

Quote from: akotchi on April 09, 2009, 12:53:29 PM
From PAHighways:
I mention the airport reason as well in my blog entry.  Former US Representative Melissa Hart once said, "We have the only international airport not served by an Interstate" but forgot that right outside the nation's capital is one not served by an Interstate.  I doubt that was one of the reasons USAirways de-hubbed PIA.

This isn't even the only one in her state not served by an Interstate.  Harrisburg's airport is accessible from PA 283 and a connector spur.

Make that 3 for PA....Allentown (Lehigh Valley International) isn't directly connected to I-78 or 476 either. 

Tulsa International Airport is served by OK 11.

Quote from: bugo on May 30, 2009, 03:22:50 AM
Will BUS PA 60 become BL 376?

Yes that's the plan

Quote from: bugo on May 30, 2009, 03:22:50 AM
Will BUS PA 60 become BL 376?

Yes, as the only segment left of SR 0060 will be from the 22/30 cloverleaf to the West End Circle-soon-to-be-Interchange.

Application to Extend I-376 Designation to be Filed Soon (http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/news/pittsburgh/s_627215.html)

Not just the former representative's stance:  "Renaming the highway would be a marketing boost for Pittsburgh International, the only major airport in the country not connected to an interstate," said Bill Hunt, president and CEO of Elmhurst Corporation, which is developing three business parks around the airport.

"Companies want to hear, 'How far is it to an interstate?' " Hunt said. "You can extol the virtues of PA 60, how it's just like an interstate, but to them it's got to be an interstate or nothing." - Apparently there are more roadgeeks in business than I thought.

I just received an e-mail today from a contributor who told me that the trailblazers around the Greentree area have been changed from 279 shields to 376 shields.

22/30/60 Cloverleaf Project to Begin Monday (http://www.dot.state.pa.us/penndot/districts/district11.nsf/37fc68a0aa7b94e9852570a70047899c/6ae66e086d3269ec852575cb005510fb?OpenDocument)

The Post-Gazette (http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/09155/974990-147.stm) article on the project explains more in detail the extent of the changes that will take place.

Quote from: PAHighways on June 04, 2009, 08:03:50 PM
22/30/60 Cloverleaf Project to Begin Monday (http://www.dot.state.pa.us/penndot/districts/district11.nsf/37fc68a0aa7b94e9852570a70047899c/6ae66e086d3269ec852575cb005510fb?OpenDocument)

The Post-Gazette (http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/09155/974990-147.stm) article on the project explains more in detail the extent of the changes that will take place.

I'm sure that this means more to the locals then replacing the PA 60 signs with I-376 signs.

Or, if a consequence of extending I-376 are upgrades of what are now considered sub-standard interchanges, then maybe the I-376 extension is worth it after all.

Quote from: mightyace on June 04, 2009, 08:42:37 PMI'm sure that this means more to the locals then replacing the PA 60 signs with I-376 signs.

Speaking as a semi-local, it is more meaningful and a much long-awaited improvement over the current design.

Quote from: mightyace on June 04, 2009, 08:42:37 PMOr, if a consequence of extending I-376 are upgrades of what are now considered sub-standard interchanges, then maybe the I-376 extension is worth it after all.

There has been talk of improving the interchange since Robinson Town Centre opened in the early 90s, and since then two other shopping developments have opened in the area.

So, in effect, they're converting 22/30/60 into a 6-ramp par-clo (if one includes the ramp from WB 22/30 to Campbell's Run Rd).

Quote from: froggie on June 05, 2009, 06:39:29 AM
So, in effect, they're converting 22/30/60 into a 6-ramp par-clo (if one includes the ramp from WB 22/30 to Campbell's Run Rd).

To be frank, I wouldn't even consider that ramp part of the 22-30-60 interchange, because it is so far away to the south.  What this project (ECMS 65122--plans are still online, but be warned:  the sheet order is reversed) does is to convert the existing 22-30-60 interchange, which is a cloverleaf with the SE link ramp missing, to a partial cloverleaf with loop ramps in the NE and SW quadrants.  To accomplish this, the existing loop ramp in the SE quadrant is being eradicated while the link ramps in the NE and SW quadrants are being rechannelized to handle left-turning traffic, which will be controlled by signals being installed as part of this contract.

So is this a net improvement to traffic flow?  In some respects no.  There is a net loss of pavement and the traffic capacity that goes with it.  Traffic on 22-30 not only will still have to TOTSO at this interchange, but will also have to do so through channel lanes attached to signalized intersections.  In effect notionally free-flowing movements are being replaced by signal-controlled ones.  Free flow is also being lost for the 22-30 EB to (future) I-376 NB movement, which is currently served by the soon-to-be-destroyed loop ramp and will be handled by a signalized left turn when construction is finished.

The motivation behind these interchange modifications seems to be traffic queue management.  Conceptually they are very similar to cloverleaf-to-SPUI conversions on surface arterials which are expected to retain that function instead of being upgraded to full freeway standard.  The main difference is that at 22-30-60 it is at least conceptually possible to provide flyover ramps to restore free flow and remove the TOTSOs on the 22-30 movements.  In the meantime, it does not make much sense overall to retain free flow for the 22-30 EB to I-376 NB movement if this results in queues or unsafe weaving operation on I-376 NB, and conceptually this movement too could be handled by its own flyover at some future point.

Quote from: J N Winkler on June 05, 2009, 10:30:13 AM
Traffic on 22-30 not only will still have to TOTSO at this interchange, but will also have to do so through channel lanes attached to signalized intersections.

Pardon my ignorance, what does TOTSO stand for?

TOTSO = turn off to stay on = take an exit to follow the same route.

I don't like one freeway being forced through a signal light to enter another freeway. Although, given, the 'I-376' is now the primary, there's several instances of this now throughout the country.

US22 and the eventual I-576 (currently Toll PA 576) will have stop-signs and left turns from one freeway to another.

Sykotyk

Quote from: Sykotyk on June 07, 2009, 08:52:13 PMUS22 and the eventual I-576 (currently Toll PA 576) will have stop-signs and left turns from one freeway to another.

It is PA Turnpike 576, and traffic between the two already has to endure stop signs and left turns.

PennDOT District 11-0 announced today that I-376 is now officially designated from I-79 to Monroeville:

http://tinyurl.com/m56xje (http://tinyurl.com/m56xje)
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/09161/976411-147.stm (http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/09161/976411-147.stm)

Quote from: PAHighways on June 10, 2009, 06:06:25 PM
PennDOT District 11-0 announced today that I-376 is now officially designated from I-79 to Monroeville:

http://tinyurl.com/m56xje (http://tinyurl.com/m56xje)
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/09161/976411-147.stm (http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/09161/976411-147.stm)

I read those but they did not say anything about how the new exit numbers would be done.

IIRC The old I-376 Mile 0 is at the I-279 junction and increases toward the turnpike.

Will the new Mile 0 be the I-376/I-79 junction, the eventual endpoint with I-80 near Sharon, or someplace else.

The new Mile 0 should be I-80.  I can't see posting milemarkers and exit numbers beginning at I-79 only to have to go back and change them out.

Quote from: PAHighways on June 10, 2009, 07:24:48 PM
The new Mile 0 should be I-80.  I can't see posting milemarkers and exit numbers beginning at I-79 only to have to go back and change them out.

Hopefully that's what will get done, but maybe not because that makes SENSE!   :-D :sombrero: :)

It will get done.  The new exit numbers are in the I-376 redesignation contracts.

Is it possible that once Interstate 376 is signed west of Interstate 79, that Pennsylvania Turnpike 576 could be upgraded to Interstate 576 since it will begin at another Interstate highway and end at U.S. 22-30 (NHS routes right?).

Quote from: J N Winkler on June 11, 2009, 04:34:55 AM
It will get done.  The new exit numbers are in the I-376 redesignation contracts.

Are the new exit numbers listed or only mentioned?  I've been looking for a list but didn't find one on the PennDOT site.

Quote from: AARoads on June 11, 2009, 11:44:59 AM
Is it possible that once Interstate 376 is signed west of Interstate 79, that Pennsylvania Turnpike 576 could be upgraded to Interstate 576 since it will begin at another Interstate highway and end at U.S. 22-30 (NHS routes right?).

That was the PTC's intent when they picked the "PA Turnpike 576" designation for the Southern Beltway and the leg into Monroeville.

Quote from: treichard on June 11, 2009, 12:39:32 PMAre the new exit numbers listed or only mentioned?  I've been looking for a list but didn't find one on the PennDOT site.

In one of the numerous e-mails I received yesterday, someone mentioned the milemarkers and exit numbers between the airport and Chippewa have been changed.  I might take a ride out there to field check and see if they are different.

Quote from: treichard on June 11, 2009, 12:39:32 PM

Quote from: J N Winkler on June 11, 2009, 04:34:55 AM
It will get done.  The new exit numbers are in the I-376 redesignation contracts.

Are the new exit numbers listed or only mentioned?  I've been looking for a list but didn't find one on the PennDOT site.

The exit numbers aren't tabulated as such in the various contracts and I am not aware that PennDOT has put a list online.  Someone on one of the other forums (SkyscraperCity, I think) put an exit list online, but I think it was generated by back-calculating from mileages and does not come from an authoritative source.

Each contract has sign layout sheets which show the new exit tabs which are to be installed as part of the work on I-376 in that contract.  The contracts I think to be part of the I-376 redesignation are as follows:

*  75905--I-376 rehabilitation and Squirrel Hill Tunnel overheight detector replacement

*  65122--22-30-60 interchange refurbishment

*  74898, 74899--I-376 rehabilitation

For your purposes the first two are the most important.  65122 includes signing work on what is now Pa. 60 north of the 22-30-60 interchange, I think all the way north to the start of the tolled section.  75905 definitely covers I-376 from Pittsburgh to the Turnpike at Monroeville.  I am not sure how Pa. 60 is being handled between the toll section and I-80 (I presume by a separate rehabilitation contract), I am assuming the Turnpike Commission will take care of numbering on its stretch of I-376, and I am also not sure what is being done about the signing between downtown Pittsburgh and the 22-30-60 interchange.

In the listing above the five-digit numbers are ECMS project codes, needed to find the actual plans here:

http://www.dot14.state.pa.us/ECMS/ (http://www.dot14.state.pa.us/ECMS/)

Choose "Enter as a guest," go to "Solicitations" dropdown, choose "Bid Packages," and enter the ECMS code for the project you are interested in at the box at upper right.

Edit:  Just found 76610, which changes the exit numbers on I-376 between (future) Exits 31 and 48.

Thanks  - I found blueprints for the highway signs in that ECMS system.  You can see the signs and exit numbers before they are built.

Exit 31  - PA 51 Chippewa
36 - Brighton
38 - PA 68 Beaver /Midland
39 - PA 18  Monaca/Shippingport
42 - Center
45 - Aliquippa
48 - PA 151  Hopewell

All from one document from one project.

Quote from: treichard on June 11, 2009, 05:10:15 PM
Thanks  - I found blueprints for the highway signs in that ECMS system.  You can see the signs and exit numbers before they are built.

Exit 31  - PA 51 Chippewa
36 - Brighton
38 - PA 68 Beaver /Midland
39 - PA 18  Monaca/Shippingport
42 - Center
45 - Aliquippa
48 - PA 151  Hopewell

All from one document from one project.

Those new exit numbers increase going to Pittsburgh.  Going back 31 miles from the PA 51 exit does put you at I-80.  I'm glad someone at PennDot is thinking ahead.  :clap:

Let's hope they're also re-signing the toll section because the 2009 PA map shows the PA 51 Chippewa exit as #29 and the numbers go up going north from there reaching 45 at US 422 near New Castle.

Quote from: mightyace on June 11, 2009, 06:23:36 PMThose new exit numbers increase going to Pittsburgh.  Going back 31 miles from the PA 51 exit does put you at I-80.  I'm glad someone at PennDot is thinking ahead.  :clap:

It's not your father's PennDOT.

Quote from: mightyace on June 11, 2009, 06:23:36 PMLet's hope they're also re-signing the toll section because the 2009 PA map shows the PA 51 Chippewa exit as #29 and the numbers go up going north from there reaching 45 at US 422 near New Castle.

It will.  The only reason that the exit numbers jump from 14 to 29 is because all Interstates and toll roads converted to mileage-based numbers, but other PennDOT expressways were allowed to stay sequential.  Now that it will be an Interstate from end-to-end, that won't be a problem.

Here are the new exit numbers that I could find from PennDOT's signing plans in the ECMS. The plans mention I-376 and I-376 BL as expected. Some signs will be replaced (using Clearview font), others will have an overlay (e.g. PA 60 removed and I-376 added).

How I found them:
Go to http://www.dot14.state.pa.us/ECMS/ (http://www.dot14.state.pa.us/ECMS/)
Log in as a guest.
Click on Sitemap at the bottom.
Click on Bid Packages Portal.
Enter the project number in the upper right. You might have to click on the page (not on links) a couple times to get an annoying blue box to vanish first.
(Not quite the path mentioned a few posts up, but this way worked in Firefox, while PennDOT seems to love IE.)

Project # 76610:
31 - PA 51 Chippewa
36 - Brighton
38 - PA 68 Beaver /Midland
39 - PA 18 Monaca/Shippingport
42 - Center
45 - Aliquippa
48 - PA 151 Hopewell

Project # 65122:
50 - I-376BL (north split)
51 - Flaugherty Road
52 - SR 3089 TO US 30 Clinton
53 - PT576 To US 22 & Airport
56 - McClaren Road
57 - I-376BL (south split)
58 - Montour Run Road
59 - Robinson Town Center Blvd.
60 - US 22/US 30/PA 60 Crafton/Weirton
61 - Ridge Road
62 - Campbells Run Road
64A - I-79 Erie/Washington

Project # 75905
I-376
64B - Rosslyn Farms
65 - PA 50 Heidelberg
67 - PA 121 Green Tree/Mt Lebanon
68 - Parkway Centre Dr.
69A - US 19/Trk 19/PA 51 Banksville Road/Uniontown
69B - South Trk US 19/PA 51 Uniontown
69C - North US 19/PA 51 West End
70A - Blvd. of the Allies/Liberty Ave/Mellon Arena
70B - Ft. Duquesne Blvs./ Convention Ctr/Strip District
70C - I-279 North Shore
70D - Stanwix Street
71A - Grant St.
71B - Second Ave.
72A - Forbes Avenue/Oakland
72B - Blvd. of the Allies/Liberty Bridge
73 - PA 885
74 - Squirrel Hill/Homestead
77 - Edgewood/Swissvale
78 - US 30/PA 8 Forest Hills/Wilkinsburg
79A - Greensburg Pike
79B - PA 130 Churchill
80 - US 22 Business Monroeville
81 - PA 791 Penn Hills
84 - PA 48 Monroeville
85 - I-76/PA Tpk Ohio/Harrisburg
none - US 22

I-279
1A - Convention Center/Strip District
1B - North Shore
1C - North PA 65 to US 19 Ohio River Blvd.
1D - PA 28 North Etna
2A - I-579 South Veterans Bridge
2B - To PA 28 North East Street
3 - Hazlett St
4 - Trk US 19 North McKnight Rd/Evergreen Rd
4 - Venture Street
5 - US 19 North Perrysville Avenue [sometimes Exit 4, maybe for HOV lane]
7 - Bellevue/West View
8 - Camp Horne Road
none - I-79

I couldn't find anything for the part from I-80 to New Castle.  I didn't find anything on the Tpk 60 section either, but I wouldn't expect to find that on PennDOT's site.

Exit numbers are not listed for I-376BL where you'd expect them after seeing the I-376 plans, so I assume it won't have any.

There are a few other sign mistakes in the plans. There are PA Tpk 76 signs in the plans near the PA 130 interchange. Yes, PA Turnpike 76, not I-76, not PA Tpk 576.   On SB I-79 at the north beginning of I-279, you have a choice of I-279 SOUTH Pittsburgh or I-279 SOUTH Washington [latter should be I-79]. There's an END US 8 shield at the PA 8 interchange of I-376.

There are also "OLD EXIT [number]" signs in the plans.

Several people mentioned a dislike for the I-99 and I-376 designations.  The last I-376 exit will be Exit 85 for the I-76 turnpike.  The last exit of I-99 would be Exit 85 for I-80 when that interchange is reconstructed (aside from the long-term extension into NY).   I therefore conclude that the number 85 causes dislike.

Quote from: treichard on June 12, 2009, 01:41:35 AMThere are a few other sign mistakes in the plans. There are PA Tpk 76 signs in the plans near the PA 130 interchange. Yes, PA Turnpike 76, not I-76, not PA Tpk 576.   On SB I-79 at the north beginning of I-279, you have a choice of I-279 SOUTH Pittsburgh or I-279 SOUTH Washington [latter should be I-79]. There's an END US 8 shield at the PA 8 interchange of I-376.

Sounds like there might be a few potential sign errors to photograph if they stick to the plans.

There is/was a PA Turnpike 76 shield on the off-ramp from 79 SB to 228 in Cranberry.

Quote from: treichard on June 12, 2009, 01:41:35 AMI couldn't find anything for the part from I-80 to New Castle.

Found it:  SR 0060 Section L06.

Quote
SR 60, Section L06 - I376 Redesignation in Lawrence County
   
    * Location
          o S.R. 60 from the Beaver County Line to the Mercer County Line in Neshannock, Pulaski, Wilmington & Union Townships, Lawrence County

    * Scope of Work
          o Interchange upgrades, new pavement lanes, guide rail upgrades, signing and sign structure replacements and other miscellaneous work required to re-designate S.R. 60 as I-376.

    * Estimated Construction Cost
          o $10 Million

    * Proposed Construction Schedule
          o Begin — Spring 2008
          o Complete — Fall/Winter 2008

    * For More Information Contact:
          o Doug Seeley, P.E., Project Manager
          o dseeley@state.pa.us
          o 412-429-4883

I'm doing a straight cut-and-paste since I'm not sure a direct link will actually go to this page.  The bread crumb trail is PennDOT District 11 homepage --> Roadwork --> Design --> Choose I-376 redesignation in Lawrence County.

Notwithstanding the statements about construction beginning in spring 2008 and finishing last autumn/winter, this contract has not yet been advertised.  (I wonder how up to date this page is kept.)

It's project # 76609  in the ECMS, but the site tells me "No records found" when I try to look at any project details.

I think it tells me that for any project flagged to be in the Design stage, and that is this project's status.

Yup, I just tried it and got the same result.  I think it is possible to get design information for 76609 elsewhere in ECMS, but only if you have an account with the appropriate access permissions (rather than the generic guest account we are all using).

ECMS does have a link to PennDOT's letting schedule:

ftp://ftp.dot.state.pa.us/public/Bureaus/Cpdm/MPMSDATA/letschdl.pdf

There is also a District 1 redesignation project, 86430, which is meant to cover the bit of Pa. 60/future I-376 in Shenango Township (essentially, in Mercer County between I-80 and the Lawrence County line).  Projected letting date is given as July 9, 2009.  In principle advertising should be imminent, but I get "No records" when I try that number (which strictly speaking is a MPMS number--the ECMS number is not necessarily the same).  There is no listing for 76609, either under that ECMS number or {PA060}.

Just to respond to the (so far) last post by 'admin' here (& apologies for self-replying):

http://clinched.s2.bizhat.com/viewtopic.php?p=1920&mforum=clinched#1920 (http://clinched.s2.bizhat.com/viewtopic.php?p=1920&mforum=clinched#1920)

PennDOT's ECMS actually contains bid packages going back to 2002, and construction plans going back either to late 2002 or early 2003.  For letting dates before January 1, 2004, PennDOT made the construction plans available as single sheets, which means that they have to be downloaded sheet by sheet in order to get a complete set.  This is a painful process for very large projects (say, the Lewistown Narrows job), but methods exist for automating it.  After January 1, 2004, plans were made available as groups of premerged sheet sets, initially as multipage TIFF files but latterly as raster PDFs.  PennDOT is increasingly moving toward plotted PDFs and this is already the dominant type of PDF from PennDOT Districts 6 and 8.

PennDOT's ECMS contains many thousands of pages of signing sheets.  I have personally collected almost 800 sheets of pattern-accurate sign design sheets, which typically comprise about one-quarter of the signing sheets in a project which has pattern-accurate signing.  I am sorry to say that there are quite a few PennDOT projects, including major ones like the Camp Hill Flyover and the I-78 Lebanon County refurbishment, which do not have pattern-accurate signing plans.

Feel free to register at that Clinched Highway Mapping forum.  We could use more people to help us keep up-to-date on highway changes for our ambitious project.  I'm known as "admin" there.

I lost count with how many single-page files I had to go through to pick off all those exit numbers from the ECMS plans.  It was indeed an tedious process that could be improved easily, perhaps with a single command.  Still it was interesting to see how it can take hundreds of pages of plans to spell out just the signs for a project. And it was a humbling reminder to see how many signs need to be updated or created and then posted just to do something that sounds so simple as "change parts of PA 60 and I-279 to I-376".

I've already heard reports of new I-376 shields posted along what is now I-279/I-376 SW of Pittsburgh.

Quote from: treichard on June 13, 2009, 12:02:49 PMI've already heard reports of new I-376 shields posted along what is now I-279/I-376 SW of Pittsburgh.

PennDOT did what NYSDOT did on NY 17 when I-86 was signed:  replaced the 279s with 376s, then moved the former designation down the "totem pole."

Tim, just look @ the picture I posted in the I-376 thread @ CHM. ;)

Quote from: treichard on June 13, 2009, 12:02:49 PMI lost count with how many single-page files I had to go through to pick off all those exit numbers from the ECMS plans.  It was indeed an tedious process that could be improved easily, perhaps with a single command.

It would be helpful if ECMS were structured so that choosing a particular project took you to a download area where you could download every sheet in a single *.ZIP file, and the downloading mechanism was either robust enough to tolerate bad or high-latency Internet connections (as is the case with Michigan DOT's plans download mechanism, which is a ColdFusion implementation) or allowed queuing in a specialist downloading program like Internet Download Manager.

However, the situation at present is not too bad.  As long as you have a browser window logged in to ECMS, you can download any of the plans files with another user agent, like IDM.  Downloads are also queuable and will proceed unattended as long as the ECMS session is active.  The main problem is that IDM's "Download all links" commands (and, I would presume, equivalents in other downloading programs) don't work directly with ECMS because they poll the logout link, and once that happens, you are logged out.  My workaround is to navigate to each download page for a project (typically indicated by a file-cabinet icon in the Bid Package or Project Development Checklist windows), save source, and use a text search-and-replace utility with regexp capability (BkReplaceEm in my case) to comment out the unwanted links and other layout cruft and then delete the comments.  I only need one of these files if the project is new enough to have premerged sheet sets, since all of the sheet sets (covering all functional disciplines) appear on a single download page.  But if it is older and has individual sheets only, I need at least one downloading file per functional discipline since the listings of individual sheets are broken up by functional discipline and, in the case of structures, by structure number.  For convenience I use a batch file to merge these files together (using DOS copy to append--highly inelegant and not HTML-compliant, but it works) so I need to feed just one file to IDM.

I think there is a browser limit on concurrent downloads, but this does not apply to IDM.  I have downloaded up to ten files simultaneously.  However, I have found ECMS is more reliable if I keep the number of concurrent downloads to three or fewer.

QuoteStill it was interesting to see how it can take hundreds of pages of plans to spell out just the signs for a project. And it was a humbling reminder to see how many signs need to be updated or created and then posted just to do something that sounds so simple as "change parts of PA 60 and I-279 to I-376".

The I-376 redesignation plans are unusual in that they cover much wider limits than the other pavement work--many of them are essentially sign replacement and updating contracts bolted onto small-scale resurfacing and interchange modification projects.  Their extremely high sheet counts of signing work (over 200 in the case of 75905 alone) are also very atypical for individual PennDOT projects.  It is not unusual for large PennDOT projects to have fewer than 50 signing sheets out of a set of more than 1000 sheets (exclusive of cross-sections) or 2000 sheets (including cross-sections).

PennDOT plans sets are a bit lightweight since PennDOT, like Caltrans but unlike TxDOT and MnDOT, does not include standard plan sheets; contractually these are incorporated by reference.  Nevertheless, large PennDOT projects still run to more than a thousand sheets.  The US 15 Appalachian Thruway project in Lycoming County (ECMS 05698) has over 3100 sheets including cross-sections, while the Lewistown Narrows project had 1305 sheets (not including cross-sections).

PennDOT in general does less signing work than other state DOTs, because--like California--it has a significant legacy of nonreflective laminated-panel button-copy signs.  Pure sign replacement contracts are much rarer for PennDOT than for MnDOT, TxDOT, or even Caltrans; SR 0080 Section 7S (ECMS 65022) is almost unique in this respect.

My main hobby activity is to collect pattern-accurate sign design sheets (though I also include sign layout sheets for certain state DOTs like NCDOT, Caltrans, and Ohio DOT which have historically not used sign design sheets), and PennDOT is just barely in my personal top ten with 954 sheets.  It falls out if I include non-American transport agencies like the Ministerio de Fomento in Spain (over 2500 sheets).

Here's some pictures I took today of the resigning of I-279 as I-376:

Alright, here we go...

This is the view from when you exit the Fort Pitt Tunnels going on South I-279/West I-376:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv645%2Frickmastfan67%2FInterstates%2FPA%2FI-376%2FP1050387s.jpg&hash=3c2f78d44a8c13b6270699f6c4665d91ca12f2a3)

This set of shields are just after Exit 4A:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv645%2Frickmastfan67%2FInterstates%2FPA%2FI-376%2FP1050391s.jpg&hash=abfcc24c7f294ba389dc6df2a3ab37c0b368712c)

And the final set of shields going toward the airport is right after the I-79 exit split.  Notice there is no "END" banner for the future extension of I-376:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv645%2Frickmastfan67%2FInterstates%2FPA%2FI-376%2FP1050397s.jpg&hash=d7b1d646f9a5dad5a14921a9114728e31bf3c1d4)

Now, going on NB I-279/EB I-376:
This is the first set of shields after you pass under I-79:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv645%2Frickmastfan67%2FInterstates%2FPA%2FI-376%2FP1050410s.jpg&hash=40af2bcfd5fa2592e3213cf2541b04730976fb15)

And here is some shots of the signage @ the PA-121 interchange:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv645%2Frickmastfan67%2FInterstates%2FPA%2FI-376%2FP1050418s.jpg&hash=61ce1e34268049d6699851b0df7f46e847da1277)
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv645%2Frickmastfan67%2FInterstates%2FPA%2FI-376%2FP1050419s.jpg&hash=0884314f300370b1a743c555b9af21075eb5fbb7)
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv645%2Frickmastfan67%2FInterstates%2FPA%2FI-376%2FP1050421s.jpg&hash=66bc20870d8f6f28958546abaebd21de0f2a0360)

I know why that last one is that way, as it is easier to change a "totem pole" than a BGS, but I'm sure that will confuse some people.  :no:

Good photos and fairly quickly, too!  :clap:

Quote from: mightyace on June 14, 2009, 11:37:40 PM
I know why that last one is that way, as it is easier to change a "totem pole" than a BGS, but I'm sure that will confuse some people.  :no:

Every BGS still had a I-279 shield on them.  That place in the last picture wasn't the only one.

Quote from: mightyace on June 14, 2009, 11:37:40 PM
Good photos and fairly quickly, too!  :clap:

Pays off to live there. ;)

Quote from: rickmastfan67 on June 14, 2009, 11:57:21 PM
Pays off to live there. ;)

I understand.  I pass through the TN 840 construction almost every day.

Quote from: froggie on June 15, 2009, 06:44:12 AM
Anyone else notice that the I-279 shield in the first photo is a bubble shield?

I noticed it was different, but I never knew that type had a name.  Are there many of them?

The guide sign for the Parkway at 79 SB still says 279 as well.

Just about the time I was watching the Stanley Cup come down the Boulevard of the Allies, I got an e-mail informing me that my 279 and 376 Exit Guides are out of date.  I didn't get to check out 279 to see if its numbers have been changed, but I doubt they have.

Quote from: froggie on June 15, 2009, 08:46:54 PM

QuoteI noticed it was different, but I never knew that type had a name.  Are there many of them?

It's an unofficial name AFAIK, coined by someone on MTR.  But it's fitting, so I've been using the term as well.

There's a few here and there scattered around.  Of the ones I remember off the top of my head, I've seen them on I-295 in DC, I-287 NJ, and I-H201.

I've seen the ones on I-287 in New Jersey.

Quote from: froggie on June 15, 2009, 06:44:12 AM
Anyone else notice that the I-279 shield in the first photo is a bubble shield?

They recently put several of those up on the Parkway North as well.  Eliminating several "Pennsylvania" shields in the process. :(

While the only progress I've seen on the Parkway West (as of this last Sunday) was addition of I-376 shields, it seems as if they're tackling the Parkway North (at least NB) for exit numbers / signs at the moment.
While not doing a total sign replacement, it seems they are putting in a decent amount of new BGS's (at least around the North Shore, the only area of the Parkway North I've traversed recently).
They've installed smaller "North Shore" signs on the Ft. Duquesne Bridge overheads with the "new" exit numbers (all suffixed "1's")

They've also installed new BGS's for the Rt. 28 exit (now 1c), which have removed the use of "To 28" in favor of just showing it going to Rt. 28. (When they installed new signs southbound when they restriped 279 as part of the Rt. 28 SB ramp project, they did the same thing with Rt. 65... the old ones said "To 65" but the new ones omit the "To".)

They have also changed the McKnight Rd's Exit number as well.  Can clearly see a #4 on the sign on PennDOT's traffic camera via KDKA.

http://kdka.com/webcams/26.567214.html?wmid=44 (http://kdka.com/webcams/26.567214.html?wmid=44)

I just received pictures from a contributor closer to Pittsburgh than I, and all of the numbers to Bellevue/West View have been changed.

We might be getting our first 70+ exit number on I-376/I-279 tonight.  The right lane of the Fort Pitt Tunnel Outbound is closed tonight.

As of right now, they still have the Exit #5C gore sign up.

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv645%2Frickmastfan67%2FInterstates%2FPA%2FI-376%2FD11-834.jpg&hash=b9e18189d8ee51e42e72c4d1a9e0ae98f261f556) (http://kdka.com/webcams/26.567214.html?wmid=6)


EDIT: Construction crews left around 1:40AM tonight without changing the Exit #5C gore sign.

They just did a story tonight on CW-19's 10 o'clock news about the exit number conversions.

http://kdka.com/local/Roads.Renaming.Routes.2.1086897.html (http://kdka.com/local/Roads.Renaming.Routes.2.1086897.html)

There is also a video there.

The Post-Gazette has an article about it as well.

http://www.postgazette.com/pg/09197/984249-455.stm (http://www.postgazette.com/pg/09197/984249-455.stm)

PennDOT just released officially some of the new I-376 exit numbers:

http://www.dot.state.pa.us/Penndot/Districts/district11.nsf/Sign_Redesignation?OpenForm (http://www.dot.state.pa.us/Penndot/Districts/district11.nsf/Sign_Redesignation?OpenForm)

However, it's just between I-79 and I-76 in the Pittsburgh area.

Looks like we got ourselves our first new "I-376" BGS on the Parkway West!

Just spotted this tonight @ the I-79/I-376/(Old I-279) interchange via the webcams being turned in the right direction.

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv645%2Frickmastfan67%2FInterstates%2FPA%2FI-376%2FD11-95.jpg&hash=9e54f5e18ccce56a6c9216fbcb5fe7c81f939221)
http://kdka.com/webcams/26.567214.html?wmid=64 (http://kdka.com/webcams/26.567214.html?wmid=64)

Still haven't spotted any new exit numbers for I-376 yet.  But it shows PennDOT is FINALLY getting around to changing the signs.  Now, they just need to get this all done before the G20. :P :-D

And we got another BGS changed.  This one you can clearly see the new "I-376 East" on the sign.

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv645%2Frickmastfan67%2FInterstates%2FPA%2FI-376%2FD11-105.jpg&hash=8b78c64e2fe30bc6f5de29f64a06ba9862fa8311)

Quote from: rickmastfan67 on August 12, 2009, 03:30:47 AMStill haven't spotted any new exit numbers for I-376 yet.  But it shows PennDOT is FINALLY getting around to changing the signs.  Now, they just need to get this all done before the G20. :P :-D

Onorato took a trip out that way today to find any places needing cleaned up.  He should call 11-0 and crack the whip for those new numbers before the end of September.

... And, perhaps, to get approval to sign the Parkway west in between the airport & I-79 done before the G-20; even if it hasn't yet officially been designated I-376.

They tout the change as a way to simplify the corridor for out-of-towners, and the G-20 seems a prime example of that.

Quote from: Mr_Northside on August 17, 2009, 09:23:54 AM
... And, perhaps, to get approval to sign the Parkway west in between the airport & I-79 done before the G-20; even if it hasn't yet officially been designated I-376.

They tout the change as a way to simplify the corridor for out-of-towners, and the G-20 seems a prime example of that.

What I don't get is why they didn't produce BGS for on I-79 that left space for adding a future I-376 West shield when they completed the Missing ramps...... (I'll post a picture later)

Really stupid IMO.  They now have to produce brand new BGS's if they want to keep the US-22/30 shields on them.....

We got our first new exit number!!!  This is going EB on I-376 (Old NB I-279).

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv645%2Frickmastfan67%2FInterstates%2FPA%2FI-376%2FD11-120-1.jpg&hash=4769e8475affd5d27a34b59ac0f27d1b035664be)

The Exit tab now shows Exit 69B-C.  Plus the BGS to the left is also updated.

Quote
What I don't get is why they didn't produce BGS for on I-79 that left space for adding a future I-376 West shield when they completed the Missing ramps...... (I'll post a picture later)

I agree with the general sentiment that they could've been more proactive about this upcoming change when installing all the new signs and such with the rather recent completion of the missing ramps project. 
(Also, I don't know that mile marker signs are that expensive compared to BGS's... but the last section of Parkway East rehabed last year involved putting up new (now outdated) mile markers)

Quote
Really stupid IMO.  They now have to produce brand new BGS's if they want to keep the US-22/30 shields on them....

Actually, I wouldn't be surprised if they have no intention of keeping the US 22/30 sheilds on them.  I'm sure 22/30 will be treated the way it has on other sections of Parkway shared with an interstate designation... a simple sign saying "22/30 follow 376"

Quote from: rickmastfan67 on August 17, 2009, 07:51:26 PMReally stupid IMO.  They now have to produce brand new BGS's if they want to keep the US-22/30 shields on them.....

None of the other signage to any of the Parkways mentions the multiplexed US route.  I'd say they leave any pull-through signage heading westbound at 79 alone until the designation is extended.

One of my contributors sent me some pictures of the changes taking place on the Beaver Valley Expressway.  The new 376 mile markers and shields are installed but are covered up with plastic and with PA 60 shields respectively.  The exit tabs have been replaced, but a temporary green overlay with the current 60 numbers cover up the 376 numbers.

Quote from: PAHighways on August 18, 2009, 01:58:52 PM

Quote from: rickmastfan67 on August 17, 2009, 07:51:26 PMReally stupid IMO.  They now have to produce brand new BGS's if they want to keep the US-22/30 shields on them.....

None of the other signage to any of the Parkways mentions the multiplexed US route.  I'd say they leave any pull-through signage heading westbound at 79 alone until the designation is extended.

You were saying? ;)

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv645%2Frickmastfan67%2FInterstates%2FPA%2FI-279%2FP1030912s.jpg&hash=8e2b92d5a81c76e53831765dc187e83629ceca30)
(Taken 05/10/09 going SB on I-79)

I still don't get why they put the US routes first....

Those were installed when the missing ramps were built.  I was referring to signage heading westbound on the Parkway.

Quote from: PAHighways on August 19, 2009, 02:59:11 PM
Those were installed when the missing ramps were built.  I was referring to signage heading westbound on the Parkway.

Alright.

Anyways, I have a new update on the Exit Number situation on the Parkway West.  I was on it today and 90% of the EB I-376 (NB I-279) signage has been changed and new exit numbers have been posted from I-79 to just shy of the PA-51 interchange.  About 50% of the signage for the PA-51 interchange exit numbers have been changed to the new numbers, while the rest still just has the old I-279 numbers.  As for WB I-376 (SB I-279) signage, nothing has changed going that way yet on the Parkway West.  As of right now, I don't have any pictures of the changes since I was only going WB at that time.  Hopefully, by the end of the weekend, I'll hopefully have shots of them.

Just a curious question about I-376.  Why did it have an odd first number when it connected two interstates?  I76 connected to I-279 via I-376.  Now that its being extended, it makes perfect sense to have the 3 in front of 76.  Maybe it was always meant to be extended?? 

the even numbers, ideally, tend to be loop roads that end at the same interstate.   I-805 in San Diego is a great example of this, as is I-405 in Los Angeles.

even-numbered 3dis also tend to be full beltways that encircle a city and connect to their parent route at two points on the circle, such as I-435 in Kansas City (and Kansas City).

the odd numbers tend to be a spur route from their parent, and are numbered without regard to what other interstates they may connect to.  In LA, I-110 and I-710 hit I-5, as well as various and sundry other 3dis, both odd and even.  (Okay, I-710 does not formally hit I-210 but it was intended to!)  They both hit I-10 exactly once, so they are given odd numbers.  Same with I-505 in Norcal that spurs off I-5 and ends up at I-80.

Don't ask me why I-605 is signed as a loop when it is most decisively a spur ... I think they were simply running short on x05 numbering options.  (Dunno when unsigned I-305 was designated - that number may have been available for the 605 corridor.)

Other counterexamples abound; for example I-210 is signed as a loop, even though technically it is a spur, and at the time of its designation, all five odd x10 possibilities were available.  I think 210 may have been intended to rejoin 10 in the west - it certainly does parallel 10 for many miles. 

Quote from: CMHroads on August 20, 2009, 03:23:21 PM
Just a curious question about I-376.  Why did it have an odd first number when it connected two interstates?  I76 connected to I-279 via I-376.  Now that its being extended, it makes perfect sense to have the 3 in front of 76.  Maybe it was always meant to be extended??

276, 476, and 676 were already being used and 876 had just been used for the Crosstown Boulevard just before I-376 was signed.  It could be said that I-376 was a spur into Pittsburgh considering at the time it was designated, I-279 basically ended at the same location.

Across PA, I-476 crosses it's parent and then runs north on the Northeast Extension of the Pennsylvania Turnpike where it ends north of Scranton at I-81.  Looks like a spur to me, especially as it links three metropolitan areas (Philly, Allentown/Bethlehem/Easton, Wilkes-Barre/Scranton).  Actually, it really behaves more as a 2di, but what the heck would you number it?

A bit to the west in Ohio, you have I-271 which is an eastern beltway/bypass of Cleveland but it ends at I-90.  Though, this Lake Erie kinda prevents 271 from rejoining it's parent.  :sombrero:

Around Toledo, I-280 ends at I-75 on its north end not I-80.  But, it is a bypass around Toledo.

QuoteActually, it really behaves more as a 2di, but what the heck would you number it?

That's the problem with these routes, like I-476, I-540 (AR), I-390 (NY), I-196, I-135 etc; somewhat too long or too rural for a 3-di, but too short for a 2-di.

^^^
But we know what I-390 (NY) may become:

I-99!  :evilgrin:

and at 129.61 miles I-476 is longer than several 2dis!

An even 3di can be a bypass as well.  I-590 is another violation; it's not a spur (can be called either a loop or a bypass).

what's the difference between a loop and a bypass?  I take it a loop is more a circle or semicircle (10 and 210 in Louisiana), while a bypass is approximately the same length as the road being bypassed?  (like 5 and 805)

In Columbus, I-270 south of I-70 is the official bypass while the northern (much longer) portion is a loop.  Officially the entire thing is called the outerbelt.  I-670 spurs from I-70 and does not return to I-70, but it does end at I-270, so I guess its even designation works.

Alright, I just got home today and I have a major update (with pictures) of the changes. ;)  Still have to get the pictures off my camera and resize them for upload.  Will post them once that's all done. ;)

Alright guys.  Here are the pictures. :)

We'll start off on NB I-79 @ the Noblestown Rd Interchange (Exit #57).  The 2 1/4 Miles advance sign that used to show I-279 North has now been converted over to show I-376 East.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv645%2Frickmastfan67%2FInterstates%2FPA%2FI-376%2F08-22-09%2FP1060230s.jpg&hash=04aa8d122c1491bdc6e51e048ec7401ff1362973)

Sign alerting people to follow I-376 Only (used to have both I-279 and I-376 shields) for US-22 & US-30 East.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv645%2Frickmastfan67%2FInterstates%2FPA%2FI-376%2F08-22-09%2FP1060232s.jpg&hash=662f2b1909493724b42f5b05142c1fe4385886dc)

Here are the last two signs before the ramp onto I-376 East.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv645%2Frickmastfan67%2FInterstates%2FPA%2FI-376%2F08-22-09%2FP1060234s.jpg&hash=74d9a13c7582fe3b28de3e075e8a212d4b5a1d21)
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv645%2Frickmastfan67%2FInterstates%2FPA%2FI-376%2F08-22-09%2FP1060235s.jpg&hash=d447c51fbe62142454377b7559ff4729cfc828b5)

I-376 EB (Former I-279 NB):

Here is the first set of standalone shields once you join the Inbound Parkway East to Downtown Pittsburgh.  Notice that something is missing from that pole that was just there less than 2 months ago...
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv645%2Frickmastfan67%2FInterstates%2FPA%2FI-376%2F08-22-09%2FP1060236s.jpg&hash=ce2b471d455fc0ac0472e3907685a9695454cf57)
(June '09:)
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv645%2Frickmastfan67%2FInterstates%2FPA%2FI-376%2FP1050410s.jpg&hash=40af2bcfd5fa2592e3213cf2541b04730976fb15)

Here is the first new exit number you see on I-376 EB; Exit #65. (Former I-279 Exit #2)
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv645%2Frickmastfan67%2FInterstates%2FPA%2FI-376%2F08-22-09%2FP1060238s.jpg&hash=f163ade1003a7c4453eae2a5775075755295b99f)

Sign telling you where to go for the Mellon Arena and other things downtown.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv645%2Frickmastfan67%2FInterstates%2FPA%2FI-376%2F08-22-09%2FP1060239s.jpg&hash=c2759b25bdbe78fa8d7c2d93e59f3c978963d9c4)

The Standalone signs you see just after the Busway HOV only exit:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv645%2Frickmastfan67%2FInterstates%2FPA%2FI-376%2F08-22-09%2FP1060241s.jpg&hash=cb1ff159d7551eab6c13c09109c0abc84b22b734)

Exit #65:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv645%2Frickmastfan67%2FInterstates%2FPA%2FI-376%2F08-22-09%2FP1060244s.jpg&hash=738529746953e1b8517f058204ee83aab8c01ff5)

1 3/4 Miles to Exit #67 (PA-121):
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv645%2Frickmastfan67%2FInterstates%2FPA%2FI-376%2F08-22-09%2FP1060245s.jpg&hash=fb4632692f0fefd806597bc0e64c142799d1cb31)

Shields you would see right before the Norfolk Southern RR Bridge:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv645%2Frickmastfan67%2FInterstates%2FPA%2FI-376%2F08-22-09%2FP1060247s.jpg&hash=89c7b7cc5640a8904c7f14a4971bc910e234f725)

More info about places to go in Downtown and what their exit numbers are:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv645%2Frickmastfan67%2FInterstates%2FPA%2FI-376%2F08-22-09%2FP1060249s.jpg&hash=15366d0553dfa50ec141da82132f382ea145f85c)

Greentree Hill; PA-121; Exit #67:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv645%2Frickmastfan67%2FInterstates%2FPA%2FI-376%2F08-22-09%2FP1060254s.jpg&hash=0e82f547346fca3fd0ead8fa038bcc755f22fd71)

Standalone shields after Greentree Exit:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv645%2Frickmastfan67%2FInterstates%2FPA%2FI-376%2F08-22-09%2FP1060257s.jpg&hash=e53518f85b2369abdddeef3e3479f0fa146b78a8)

1 Mile till US-19 & PA-51's exits; #69B & #69C:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv645%2Frickmastfan67%2FInterstates%2FPA%2FI-376%2F08-22-09%2FP1060258s.jpg&hash=2d26a562b147dc81c937a51f8f2cf8524155eb2e)

3/4 Miles now:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv645%2Frickmastfan67%2FInterstates%2FPA%2FI-376%2F08-22-09%2FP1060259s.jpg&hash=1489c615f78395023eb0e1c6e7be35b5f70a073b)

Sign you see from the entering NB US-19:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv645%2Frickmastfan67%2FInterstates%2FPA%2FI-376%2F08-22-09%2FP1060263s.jpg&hash=909a7f08f974926ca33acc397a35b78752994d56)

Brand new configuration for the signs before you enter the Fort Pitt Tunnels:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv645%2Frickmastfan67%2FInterstates%2FPA%2FI-376%2F08-22-09%2FP1060265s.jpg&hash=ce74ecb74fca8aba8c172b2f513922232c085e31)
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv645%2Frickmastfan67%2FInterstates%2FPA%2FI-376%2F08-22-09%2FP1060267s.jpg&hash=ebe6e0664992892db24b7e78692c0c52008d92d1)
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv645%2Frickmastfan67%2FInterstates%2FPA%2FI-376%2F08-22-09%2FP1060269s.jpg&hash=e201c819725c1fcfd667e23404f79882d92d4e9b)


And that is it.  Traffic was so bad tonight that we decided to bypass it via the West End Circle.  Hopefully, once they have fully finished redoing EB I-376's exit numbers, I can get the remaining ones till they get around to doing WB I-376.

Also, the ENTIRE Parkway West Inbound has been stripped on any I-279 signage except for mile markers and those little white signs.  Guess PennDOT thinks the public has it figured out already and took down the I-279 North shields.  However, the Outbound side still has all it's I-279 Exit numbers and BGS's at this time as well as standalone shields.


Enjoy!

Nice set of photos!

So unlike in other exit numbering resignings, we won't be faced with "old exit #" tabs for the next several years? That works for me.

Will Interstate 279's north departure from Interstate 376 be signed with an exit number?

How come some of the state route exits' shields have greenouts as well?

Quote from: AARoads on August 23, 2009, 01:09:11 PMSo unlike in other exit numbering resignings, we won't be faced with "old exit #" tabs for the next several years? That works for me.

There are still ones up from 2001!  District 11's press releases do mention "OLD EXIT" in reference to anything along 279.

Quote from: AARoads on August 23, 2009, 01:09:11 PMWill Interstate 279's north departure from Interstate 376 be signed with an exit number?

70C

Quote from: AARoads on August 23, 2009, 01:09:11 PM
So unlike in other exit numbering resignings, we won't be faced with "old exit #" tabs for the next several years? That works for me.

Well, there wasn't any on the BGS or the Exit signs at this time.  However, there are a few tabs on the advance signage on the sides of the metal poles as you can see in this picture:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv645%2Frickmastfan67%2FInterstates%2FPA%2FI-376%2F08-22-09%2FP1060258s.jpg&hash=2d26a562b147dc81c937a51f8f2cf8524155eb2e)

Quote from: AARoads on August 23, 2009, 01:09:11 PM
Will Interstate 279's north departure from Interstate 376 be signed with an exit number?

Look on the left in this picture:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv645%2Frickmastfan67%2FInterstates%2FPA%2FI-376%2F08-22-09%2FP1060265s.jpg&hash=ce74ecb74fca8aba8c172b2f513922232c085e31)

Quote from: AARoads on August 23, 2009, 01:09:11 PM
How come some of the state route exits' shields have greenouts as well?

No idea why.

What's nice about the renumbering of I-279 is that now the route makes sense going North/East (from Carnegie to Monroeville).

If you stay in the right lane through the Fort Pitt Tunnel, you'll stay on the same route (I-376). Before, to stay on I-279 meant you had to enter the Fort Pitt Tunnel in the left lane, and once on the Fort Pitt Bridge, had to move one lane over to the left to stay on I-279. Then, once I-279 departed I-376, you had to get over one more lane to the left to avoid exiting onto the 10th St Bypass.

No wonder I-79 was routed around the city. That bridge in morning rush hour is a horrible bottle neck (moreso than the tunnel) because of all the lane changing that must go on.

Sykotyk

One thing I've noticed about these signs is the greenouts. Pennsylvania must have the shields and lettering silk-screened or otherwise attached to the signs in such a way that they are not removable and must be covered up. If this was Kentucky, we'd be able to remove the old shields and lettering (i.e., I-279 North) and just replace with the new shields and lettering (i.e., I-376 East) without having to use greenouts.

I also noticed a couple of bubble shields in the set of new I-376 photos.

Quote from: Sykotyk on August 23, 2009, 07:33:12 PMNo wonder I-79 was routed around the city. That bridge in morning rush hour is a horrible bottle neck (moreso than the tunnel) because of all the lane changing that must go on.

The reason 79 and 279 were switched was mainly due to the fact 79 ended at the Point and there was no telling when/if the rest would be completed to Wexford.

The reason for the green-out on the Carnegie sign is that it used to read "50 WEST."

Since there weren't any pictures of any, I assume they haven't put up any new mile markers yet?

I was kind of surprised that a lot of the signs were just modified on the Parkway West.  Not that PennDOT should spend money on new signs when current ones will do... but it seems that they did just replace the majority of BGS's on the Parkway North for the re-numberings.

I have a photo of when I-79 was still routed downtown...from a flooded Parkway East.

http://www.gribblenation.com/swparoads/newsphotos/79downtown70s.jpg (http://www.gribblenation.com/swparoads/newsphotos/79downtown70s.jpg)

Quote from: Mr_Northside on August 24, 2009, 09:33:14 AM
Since there weren't any pictures of any, I assume they haven't put up any new mile markers yet?

You're correct.  No new MM's have been posted yet.

If you want to see an exit number being changed, go to this link RIGHT NOW!!

http://kdka.com/webcams/26.567214.html?wmid=56 (http://kdka.com/webcams/26.567214.html?wmid=56)

Quote from: CanesFan27 on August 24, 2009, 10:08:13 AM
I have a photo of when I-79 was still routed downtown...from a flooded Parkway East.

http://www.gribblenation.com/swparoads/newsphotos/79downtown70s.jpg (http://www.gribblenation.com/swparoads/newsphotos/79downtown70s.jpg)

I like that picture as well as the one you have of the workers replacing the 76 shield with a 376.

Quote from: rickmastfan67 on August 24, 2009, 09:52:44 PM
If you want to see an exit number being changed, go to this link RIGHT NOW!!

http://kdka.com/webcams/26.567214.html?wmid=56 (http://kdka.com/webcams/26.567214.html?wmid=56)

They were changing the "279 SOUTH" to a "376 WEST" at the time of this post.

Quote from: PAHighways on August 24, 2009, 10:24:04 PM

Quote from: rickmastfan67 on August 24, 2009, 09:52:44 PM
If you want to see an exit number being changed, go to this link RIGHT NOW!!

http://kdka.com/webcams/26.567214.html?wmid=56 (http://kdka.com/webcams/26.567214.html?wmid=56)

They were changing the "279 SOUTH" to a "376 WEST" at the time of this post.

Don't worry, I've been saving pictures of the change.  So, once it's all done, I'll post them. ;)  23 pictures and counting as of right now.

Is that what is going on in that picture??  I had thought that the 376 designation had just been assigned, and the 76 that the workers were holding up was just for show, being a replacement for 80S, which was the number being retired in entirety.

Quote from: rickmastfan67 on August 24, 2009, 10:24:47 PM

Quote from: PAHighways on August 24, 2009, 10:24:04 PM

Quote from: rickmastfan67 on August 24, 2009, 09:52:44 PM
If you want to see an exit number being changed, go to this link RIGHT NOW!!

http://kdka.com/webcams/26.567214.html?wmid=56 (http://kdka.com/webcams/26.567214.html?wmid=56)

They were changing the "279 SOUTH" to a "376 WEST" at the time of this post.

Don't worry, I've been saving pictures of the change.  So, once it's all done, I'll post them. ;)  23 pictures and counting as of right now.

And here are those pictures:

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv645%2Frickmastfan67%2FInterstates%2FPA%2FI-376%2F08-24-09_BGS-Change%2FD11-135_001.jpg&hash=6dab936f67a8a8d6c268957f61f8a495fc13654d) (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv645%2Frickmastfan67%2FInterstates%2FPA%2FI-376%2F08-24-09_BGS-Change%2FD11-135_002.jpg&hash=4b7f693624d08536aa321350dfb5ef3f904931e4)
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv645%2Frickmastfan67%2FInterstates%2FPA%2FI-376%2F08-24-09_BGS-Change%2FD11-135_003.jpg&hash=4962233c83bed20975e3c5d47a2723c6a8a6fc35) (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv645%2Frickmastfan67%2FInterstates%2FPA%2FI-376%2F08-24-09_BGS-Change%2FD11-135_004.jpg&hash=9fae45e2418f3f49c068b39f04fd6874ebf91d9a)
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv645%2Frickmastfan67%2FInterstates%2FPA%2FI-376%2F08-24-09_BGS-Change%2FD11-135_005.jpg&hash=4332a5660cb9740641b7a19bf80238e9b65e9204) (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv645%2Frickmastfan67%2FInterstates%2FPA%2FI-376%2F08-24-09_BGS-Change%2FD11-135_006.jpg&hash=8dd9c379355a7785dea2075eceeb0cb61698d03f)
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv645%2Frickmastfan67%2FInterstates%2FPA%2FI-376%2F08-24-09_BGS-Change%2FD11-135_007.jpg&hash=fbe672d885a67e30064efd7caf4853708023fa13) (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv645%2Frickmastfan67%2FInterstates%2FPA%2FI-376%2F08-24-09_BGS-Change%2FD11-135_008.jpg&hash=3e3aad1e3b3aed99363ddea7bcc8eaacbb64d57d)
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv645%2Frickmastfan67%2FInterstates%2FPA%2FI-376%2F08-24-09_BGS-Change%2FD11-135_009.jpg&hash=2460b58de1c0b01c15ea65c8936c5b4e27d14f67) (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv645%2Frickmastfan67%2FInterstates%2FPA%2FI-376%2F08-24-09_BGS-Change%2FD11-135_010.jpg&hash=67b20e8c456a3fe50bc451894568f91252eeb5c4)
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv645%2Frickmastfan67%2FInterstates%2FPA%2FI-376%2F08-24-09_BGS-Change%2FD11-135_011.jpg&hash=52fcf3518b2cc186a750b13c15503a24b2970e15) (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv645%2Frickmastfan67%2FInterstates%2FPA%2FI-376%2F08-24-09_BGS-Change%2FD11-135_012.jpg&hash=45c044ffdfa920980f3cc8a77588732650f68ab1)
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv645%2Frickmastfan67%2FInterstates%2FPA%2FI-376%2F08-24-09_BGS-Change%2FD11-135_013.jpg&hash=9f1f7b099bcbfa8d7fc30e7865f2b82d52360a03) (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv645%2Frickmastfan67%2FInterstates%2FPA%2FI-376%2F08-24-09_BGS-Change%2FD11-135_014.jpg&hash=85fde0f06077fe7f607f32965116524cc5abf3c4)
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv645%2Frickmastfan67%2FInterstates%2FPA%2FI-376%2F08-24-09_BGS-Change%2FD11-135_015.jpg&hash=67562213a8efe3135cd3e59aaeed4bd25e0f898d) (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv645%2Frickmastfan67%2FInterstates%2FPA%2FI-376%2F08-24-09_BGS-Change%2FD11-135_016.jpg&hash=f2eb4f5bdd6251ce4c95ed721d585808ff123b15)
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv645%2Frickmastfan67%2FInterstates%2FPA%2FI-376%2F08-24-09_BGS-Change%2FD11-135_017.jpg&hash=01f27abf9fea0bf6edb74b0def3781b24f333ea4) (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv645%2Frickmastfan67%2FInterstates%2FPA%2FI-376%2F08-24-09_BGS-Change%2FD11-135_018.jpg&hash=7056426bffb61b798495a771cb6aed3719bd242d)
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv645%2Frickmastfan67%2FInterstates%2FPA%2FI-376%2F08-24-09_BGS-Change%2FD11-135_019.jpg&hash=8f2d6e1c33c912d1c7be77de7518d7f3957b9d8d) (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv645%2Frickmastfan67%2FInterstates%2FPA%2FI-376%2F08-24-09_BGS-Change%2FD11-135_020.jpg&hash=fb593d6777aaf76434154b274f986f2456340e9a)
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv645%2Frickmastfan67%2FInterstates%2FPA%2FI-376%2F08-24-09_BGS-Change%2FD11-135_021.jpg&hash=35a0ac379199ee750f809e7918c7ad5966a317f0) (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv645%2Frickmastfan67%2FInterstates%2FPA%2FI-376%2F08-24-09_BGS-Change%2FD11-135_022.jpg&hash=8e7b95cc323b2dcc24f86e1f8158dfc523d440b6)
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv645%2Frickmastfan67%2FInterstates%2FPA%2FI-376%2F08-24-09_BGS-Change%2FD11-135_023.jpg&hash=69c9228092e94bcd88ba337c53b122f1b0a3b146) (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv645%2Frickmastfan67%2FInterstates%2FPA%2FI-376%2F08-24-09_BGS-Change%2FD11-135_024.jpg&hash=87fcefc9aa4dafb0647c012af6a81cb046b8549b)
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv645%2Frickmastfan67%2FInterstates%2FPA%2FI-376%2F08-24-09_BGS-Change%2FD11-135_025.jpg&hash=d17c0d0854a95a1b146eb01a55b425fd628fa056) (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv645%2Frickmastfan67%2FInterstates%2FPA%2FI-376%2F08-24-09_BGS-Change%2FD11-135_026.jpg&hash=6c0e2dcb693037c6128290dc635a9542000db55e)
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv645%2Frickmastfan67%2FInterstates%2FPA%2FI-376%2F08-24-09_BGS-Change%2FD11-135_027.jpg&hash=54eb2369ef2e6ccd0f26c96ec401202620de3956) (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv645%2Frickmastfan67%2FInterstates%2FPA%2FI-376%2F08-24-09_BGS-Change%2FD11-135_028.jpg&hash=3ab8ca0100cb41d07e22ecef04af94ad699ebfdb)
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv645%2Frickmastfan67%2FInterstates%2FPA%2FI-376%2F08-24-09_BGS-Change%2FD11-135_029.jpg&hash=17eadc77d8ba86926ad047a021dade237361ed8c) (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv645%2Frickmastfan67%2FInterstates%2FPA%2FI-376%2F08-24-09_BGS-Change%2FD11-135_030.jpg&hash=69da922de8aad3be20c126be2cba8a42bafe2613)
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv645%2Frickmastfan67%2FInterstates%2FPA%2FI-376%2F08-24-09_BGS-Change%2FD11-135_031.jpg&hash=184835b0677485d4723b45caa1ab8ab6359c51d9) (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv645%2Frickmastfan67%2FInterstates%2FPA%2FI-376%2F08-24-09_BGS-Change%2FD11-135_032.jpg&hash=6cb9b4776e8a1fec405f0786538916d227cd3f78)
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv645%2Frickmastfan67%2FInterstates%2FPA%2FI-376%2F08-24-09_BGS-Change%2FD11-135_033.jpg&hash=d158eebc85fed93e5240cffd6a2caa402f4523bd)

Jake,

80S never went through Pittsburgh - originally 70 did until 1963.  Then 76 did.  376 replaced 76 to the point.

See the bottom of Jeff's page:
http://www.pahighways.com/interstates/I376.html (http://www.pahighways.com/interstates/I376.html)
"Former designations"

80S only existed on the Turnpike.

Now a gem of a find would be a I-70S PA shield since that route only existed until 1963.

where did I-70S go in Pennsylvania?  I just know of the Baltimore/Washington split further east.

^^^
IIRC
When I-70 went through Pittsburgh (up from Washington, PA and down the turnpike), I-70S was the current I-70 from Washington to the turnpike at the New Stanton interchange.

Quote from: agentsteel53 on August 25, 2009, 12:21:41 PM
where did I-70S go in Pennsylvania?  I just know of the Baltimore/Washington split further east.

It went between Washington and New Stanton at the time mainline 70 went into Pittsburgh.

Quote from: rickmastfan67 on August 24, 2009, 11:03:34 PM

Quote from: rickmastfan67 on August 24, 2009, 10:24:47 PM

Quote from: PAHighways on August 24, 2009, 10:24:04 PM

Quote from: rickmastfan67 on August 24, 2009, 09:52:44 PM
If you want to see an exit number being changed, go to this link RIGHT NOW!!

http://kdka.com/webcams/26.567214.html?wmid=56 (http://kdka.com/webcams/26.567214.html?wmid=56)

They were changing the "279 SOUTH" to a "376 WEST" at the time of this post.

Don't worry, I've been saving pictures of the change.  So, once it's all done, I'll post them. ;)  23 pictures and counting as of right now.

And here are those pictures:

Nothing really special about the procedure.

Quote from: agentsteel53 on August 25, 2009, 12:21:41 PMwhere did I-70S go in Pennsylvania?  I just know of the Baltimore/Washington split further east.

http://www.pahighways.com/interstates/pdi.html#I70S (http://www.pahighways.com/interstates/pdi.html#I70S)

And prior to that it was PA 71 Alt.  Don't forget the brief section from the Hunker interchange (old US 119) to the Turnpike was at grade til about the same time I-70 moved to where it is at today.

You can find a number of older I-70 PA shields in and around the interchanges on that old stretch. (not the best shot as i was still using a cheap film camera then).

http://www.gribblenation.com/papics/various/i70wpa.jpg (http://www.gribblenation.com/papics/various/i70wpa.jpg)

I know this is changing the subject slight but lets not forget the short-lived white on green PA 43 TPK shield from 1999-2000.

Quote from: rickmastfan67 on August 24, 2009, 11:03:34 PM
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv645%2Frickmastfan67%2FInterstates%2FPA%2FI-376%2F08-24-09_BGS-Change%2FD11-135_009.jpg&hash=2460b58de1c0b01c15ea65c8936c5b4e27d14f67)

I'm curious - what are the dimensions and weight of an exit tab?

Weight depends on the substrate type and thickness.  Height is typically 30" (though California uses 24", and Arizona DOT uses 36"), and width is whatever it has to be in order to accommodate the legend--probably 150"-180" for the tab being lifted into place.

As a general rule, in states which use extruded panel or extrusheet construction for large guide signs, large guide signs need to be hoisted in place mechanically and then held suspended in the air while they are bolted to the sign structure.  This is not necessarily true for exit tabs, however, since they have a far smaller area and so are much lighter.  It looks as if this exit tab is light enough for two men to handle with a cherry-picker.

I am not sure what kind of sign substrate PennDOT uses now.  In the past they have used laminated panels--to all intents and purposes it looks the same as the Douglas A-10 honeycomb which Caltrans has traditionally used.

Quote from: PAHighways on August 25, 2009, 01:11:50 PM

Quote from: rickmastfan67 on August 24, 2009, 11:03:34 PM

Quote from: rickmastfan67 on August 24, 2009, 10:24:47 PM

Quote from: PAHighways on August 24, 2009, 10:24:04 PM

Quote from: rickmastfan67 on August 24, 2009, 09:52:44 PM
If you want to see an exit number being changed, go to this link RIGHT NOW!!

http://kdka.com/webcams/26.567214.html?wmid=56 (http://kdka.com/webcams/26.567214.html?wmid=56)

They were changing the "279 SOUTH" to a "376 WEST" at the time of this post.

Don't worry, I've been saving pictures of the change.  So, once it's all done, I'll post them. ;)  23 pictures and counting as of right now.

And here are those pictures:

Nothing really special about the procedure.

Still, for me, it's saying goodbye to an old friend since all I've know on that section of highway is I-279. ;)

QuoteStill, for me, it's saying goodbye to an old friend since all I've know on that section of highway is I-279.

Me too, even though I'm not a Jersey native.  I have tons of family in Pgh and I go every year.

Goodness i hate to see how you would have been in the 1970s when it went from I-79 to I-76 to I-279. 

Quote from: CanesFan27 on August 31, 2009, 09:49:30 AMGoodness i hate to see how you would have been in the 1970s when it went from I-79 to I-76 to I-279.

Or Crosstown Boulevard going from I-479 to I-876 to I-579.

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/news/breaking/s_640884.html (http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/news/breaking/s_640884.html)3

Apparently they will be working switching/modifing signage around the point nightly this week.

Their article is inconsistent though, as the first paragraph it says the work is being done southbound.  The second paragraph then says it will be on the bridges' upper decks... which are Northbound.

Quote from: Mr_Northside on August 31, 2009, 04:03:16 PM
http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/news/breaking/s_640884.html (http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/news/breaking/s_640884.html)3

Apparently they will be working switching/modifing signage around the point nightly this week.

Their article is inconsistent though, as the first paragraph it says the work is being done southbound.  The second paragraph then says it will be on the bridges' upper decks... which are Northbound.

About time. lol.

I was just on the Parkway West from Robinson to Blvd of the Allies, and from Greentree Rd out past the airport. Not one I-279 sign I saw.

Interesting, north on PA-60, there's I-376 shields covered by PA-60 shields waiting for their unveiling.

Sykotyk

Quote from: Sykotyk on August 31, 2009, 07:44:49 PM
I was just on the Parkway West from Robinson to Blvd of the Allies, and from Greentree Rd out past the airport. Not one I-279 sign I saw.

The I-279 shields were gone going Inbound on the Parkway West as of the time I took all those photos of the new signage.  There were (at that time) still up going Outbound.

So, I had a feeling that the Outbound ones days were numbered when they had disappeared from the Inbound side.

Quote from: Sykotyk on August 31, 2009, 07:44:49 PM
Interesting, north on PA-60, there's I-376 shields covered by PA-60 shields waiting for their unveiling.

I still don't get why PennDOT didn't do that on the signage @ I-376(I-279)/I-79 when they installed new signage as part of the missing ramps project.

They now have the signs on the top of the Fort Pitt. Bridge changed over.

Just happened to catch a view of the top deck of the bridge while they had the camera zoomed in clearly showing the new exit numbers. :)

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv645%2Frickmastfan67%2FInterstates%2FPA%2FI-376%2FD11-831.jpg&hash=2e933180dc26e6bca967aa49e0ca81df196c1fed)

They're just playing catch-up (http://www.pahighways.com/exits/I376exits.html).

Quote from: PAHighways on September 05, 2009, 11:19:52 PM
They're just playing catch-up (http://www.pahighways.com/exits/I376exits.html).

I noticed you have some incorrect exit numbers on that page of yours.

• You have the I-79 interchange as Exit #62, while it should be Exit #64A and the Rosslyn Farms one should be #64B.
• Both sides, the PA-50 exit is just #65, not #64B and #65.
• You have the WB PA-121 exit listed as #65, while it's suppose to be #67, just like the EB side.
• And the Parkway Center Drive interchange is #68, not #67.

Everything else matches PennDOT's lists.

Quote from: rickmastfan67 on September 05, 2009, 11:50:55 PM

Quote from: PAHighways on September 05, 2009, 11:19:52 PM
They're just playing catch-up (http://www.pahighways.com/exits/I376exits.html).

I noticed you have some incorrect exit numbers on that page of yours.

• You have the I-79 interchange as Exit #62, while it should be Exit #64A and the Rosslyn Farms one should be #64B.
• Both sides, the PA-50 exit is just #65, not #64B and #65.
• You have the WB PA-121 exit listed as #65, while it's suppose to be #67, just like the EB side.
• And the Parkway Center Drive interchange is #68, not #67.

Everything else matches PennDOT's lists.

The PDF that I downloaded from District 11 when I updated the exit guide had those numbers as well as Campbells Run Road with 61 (now it's marked 62).  Someone must have caught these discrepancies, as the version I just downloaded minutes ago has the actual numbers.

Downtown Pittsburgh still signs it as I-279 South for all the entrance signage and info signage on downtown streets.

Sykotyk

Quote from: Sykotyk on September 06, 2009, 05:03:20 PM
Downtown Pittsburgh still signs it as I-279 South for all the entrance signage and info signage on downtown streets.

The Wayfinder signs still had "279 SOUTH" which would have to be updated by Pittsburgh Public Works.

Yeah, but I-376 still has "I-279 South" signs from around Grant to the 279/376 interchange. Threw me off when I saw them.

Sykotyk

District 11 hasn't yet touched any signage on the original 376.

Yeah.... this isn't exactly looking like a rush job.
That being said, I'm sure getting it done faster would probably cost more $$, so I suppose they can take their time.

Old news as that PDF file has been up since July.  After all, I didn't just guess when I updated my exit guides.

They now have the bottom of the Fort Pitt Bridge signage updated.

Caught this picture this morning of the new 69C gore sign that used to be 5C.

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv645%2Frickmastfan67%2FInterstates%2FPA%2FI-376%2FD11-833.jpg&hash=74c2daa4edab749aba49c222f2ba218a26a2169d)

This just in....a PennDot Truck carrying signs was spotted on I-70/79/76/279/376...Hurry go look on the traffic cameras! Hurry! If you blink, you'll miss it!

UPDATE: It was only a truck carrying a bunch of drunk "Stiller" fans to the game tonight.

:-p

Goodness, I'd hate to see how some of ya'll would have reacted seven/eight years ago when Pennsylvania switched from sequential to mile based exit numbering. 

Quote from: CanesFan27 on September 10, 2009, 06:20:14 PM
Goodness, I'd hate to see how some of ya'll would have reacted seven/eight years ago when Pennsylvania switched from sequential to mile based exit numbering. 

Hey! :-P

Parkway East and Central Sign Changes Begin Thursday Night in Pittsburgh (http://www.dot.state.pa.us/Penndot/Districts/district11.nsf/93a05958cad04c09852571e60056cfc3/5bd9cddff5ab5c698525762d00435672?OpenDocument)

Quote from: PAHighways on September 10, 2009, 11:46:23 PM
Parkway East and Central Sign Changes Begin Thursday Night in Pittsburgh (http://www.dot.state.pa.us/Penndot/Districts/district11.nsf/93a05958cad04c09852571e60056cfc3/5bd9cddff5ab5c698525762d00435672?OpenDocument)

Let's see if they can get it done before the G20. :P

Quote from: treichard on June 12, 2009, 01:41:35 AM
There are a few other sign mistakes in the plans. There are PA Tpk 76 signs in the plans near the PA 130 interchange. Yes, PA Turnpike 76, not I-76, not PA Tpk 576.   On SB I-79 at the north beginning of I-279, you have a choice of I-279 SOUTH Pittsburgh or I-279 SOUTH Washington [latter should be I-79]. There's an END US 8 shield at the PA 8 interchange of I-376.

Did any of these sign errors from the plans show up along the highway?

Quote from: treichard on September 23, 2009, 12:43:20 PMDid any of these sign errors from the plans show up along the highway?

There was no new signage the last time I was on the Parkway East, but the number conversion was just about to start on that section.

I really don't understand why, to some in this forum, this is such a big deal prior to the G20.  It's not like the media and the politicians are going to be driving themselves.  Plus, from what I understand most of the action is taking place at the Allegheny County Airport.

And the folks protesting are against highways as it is...so if they are confused and get lost...does it really matter?

The renumbering had nothing to do with the G-20 meeting. It's been on the books to be resigned as I-376 and renumbered for a while now.

As for the road itself, the US22/US30/PA60/I376 interchange will be a diamond, correct? If so, anyone know why they don't want a direct freeway to freeway connection between two freeways?

They already did this once now with the three-level diamond on the Findlay Connector/US-22 interchange.

It's a disgrace, to me.

Sykotyk

Yes, I know it has nothing to do with the G-20 (I wasn't born yesterday)...but if you read the comments in this thread...a number of people want it done by the G-20.

Quote from: treichard on September 23, 2009, 12:43:20 PM

Quote from: treichard on June 12, 2009, 01:41:35 AM
There are a few other sign mistakes in the plans. There are PA Tpk 76 signs in the plans near the PA 130 interchange. Yes, PA Turnpike 76, not I-76, not PA Tpk 576.   On SB I-79 at the north beginning of I-279, you have a choice of I-279 SOUTH Pittsburgh or I-279 SOUTH Washington [latter should be I-79]. There's an END US 8 shield at the PA 8 interchange of I-376.

Did any of these sign errors from the plans show up along the highway?

Do-be-do-be-do.

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv645%2Frickmastfan67%2FInterstates%2FPA%2FI-376%2FP1050654s.jpg&hash=a0fd89cb18aac5cf4b9b66cf2b66bd4e97acc848)
(Taken July 30th, 2009)

On a related note, it "seems" like they might have gotten all the exit numbers changed.  This is based on how they did the change over on I-279, which was NB I-279 first, then SB.

Here's a view I caught tonight of EB I-376 heading toward The Point.

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv645%2Frickmastfan67%2FInterstates%2FPA%2FI-376%2FD11-315Z.jpg&hash=900417bfe77148a1e052281b346df3459949f637)

Quote from: Sykotyk on September 23, 2009, 07:26:18 PMThey already did this once now with the three-level diamond on the Findlay Connector/US-22 interchange.

Twice actually as there is a "volleyball" interchange at I-476 and US 1 outside of Philadelphia.

QuoteAs for the road itself, the US22/US30/PA60/I376 interchange will be a diamond, correct? If so, anyone know why they don't want a direct freeway to freeway connection between two freeways?

It's not gonna be a straight up diamond.  They're removing a loop or 2 to reduce weaving (so there will be a traffic signal or 2).  As for a freeway-freeway connection, I'm sure they probably wanted it... Or at least a partially direct (I.E. a flyover for West 22/30) connection.  But, as with many things, I'm guessing their budget did not allow it. 

QuoteOn a related note, it "seems" like they might have gotten all the exit numbers changed.  This is based on how they did the change over on I-279, which was NB I-279 first, then SB.

They've only really taken care of the downtown area signs so far.  Outbound as far as Forbes Ave, and Inbound new numbers / shields only start after the Grant St. Exit.  They did fully replace some of the "Forbes Ave / Oakland - Exit Only" signs outbound. 

and don't forget that east of the interchange Highway 60 is not a freeway. Are the plans for this revamped interchange online? 

Yes, there are construction plans for 22-30-60 in ECMS.  The work was folded into a broader I-376 redesignation contract.  ECMS number is 65122.

Jonathan,

You're speaking to someone who doesn't browse or hunts for these type of plans.  What is ECMS and how can I access it?

Go back to page 3 here.
https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=450.msg26970#msg26970 (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=450.msg26970#msg26970)

It's worth noting also that 76609 and 86430, which were not available on ECMS at the time posts on that page were made, have been advertised and are now available too.  I haven't checked, but I think we may now have redesignation plans for all of I-376 except possibly the tolled section of SR 60.

SR 7060 wouldn't be in there since it falls under the jurisdiction of the Turnpike Commission.

Quote from: PAHighways on September 24, 2009, 09:09:52 PM
SR 7060 wouldn't be in there since it falls under the jurisdiction of the Turnpike Commission.

I bet they will be changing that to SR 7376 once completed.

That is a pretty safe bet.

Inbound Parkway North Sign Changes Begin Thursday Night (http://www.dot.state.pa.us/Penndot/Districts/district11.nsf/93a05958cad04c09852571e60056cfc3/c5196443c1f1a8d48525764000668c51?OpenDocument)

Quote from: PAHighways on September 30, 2009, 12:02:07 AM
Inbound Parkway North Sign Changes Begin Thursday Night (http://www.dot.state.pa.us/Penndot/Districts/district11.nsf/93a05958cad04c09852571e60056cfc3/c5196443c1f1a8d48525764000668c51?OpenDocument)

Hmmm, that's already done with the exit number changes in that area. LOL.  Unless they are installing new BGS's, which IMO aren't needed at this time.  The BGS's in that area are perfectly fine still.

Now, if anything, they still need to finish updating the exit numbers @ the Point on I-279.  Because the old numbers for Exit #6A and a few others are still posted in that area.

They actually already replaced most of the BGS's on the Pkwy North (both directions). (And I agree that some of them probably didn't even need to be replaced).  The only inbound ones that I don't think got replaced a few weeks ago were the really big diagram signs for the East St. exit & I-279/I-579 split.
And there seems to be signs on the Parkway West that were simply modified that actually could have used replacement (at least compared with some of the Pkwy North signs)

A bit of an example of PennDOT's right hand not knowing what it's left hand is doing....

http://kdka.com/local/penndot.road.closures.2.1266537.html (http://kdka.com/local/penndot.road.closures.2.1266537.html)

QuoteThe outbound Parkway East will be closed nightly between exits 80 and 84. The on-ramp from Penn Hills to the outbound Parkway East will also be closed. The closures are so that crews can place structural beams for a new bridge in the area.

As of this morning, none of signs have been replaced at those exits yet indicating those exit numbers (Outbound they've made it up to the Forest Hills exit, and I don't think they've done any sign work inbound until after the Blvd. of the Allies), so the only people who would identify those exits (by number) are probably the sort of people who would read a forum like this.

That said, I'm sure most people will be able to figure it out anyway.

On my way back into town a few days ago, I noticed they finally got the new I-376 MM's posted along the Parkway West at least Inbound.

Quote from: Mr_Northside on October 23, 2009, 12:17:12 PMAs of this morning, none of signs have been replaced at those exits yet indicating those exit numbers (Outbound they've made it up to the Forest Hills exit, and I don't think they've done any sign work inbound until after the Blvd. of the Allies), so the only people who would identify those exits (by number) are probably the sort of people who would read a forum like this.

That said, I'm sure most people will be able to figure it out anyway.

One press release writer doesn't know what the others are doing either, since 11 will announce traffic changes in the Parkway East rehabilitation project zone with old exit numbers one day and the eventual exit numbers the next.

Quote from: PAHighways on October 25, 2009, 07:34:03 PM

Quote from: Mr_Northside on October 23, 2009, 12:17:12 PMAs of this morning, none of signs have been replaced at those exits yet indicating those exit numbers (Outbound they've made it up to the Forest Hills exit, and I don't think they've done any sign work inbound until after the Blvd. of the Allies), so the only people who would identify those exits (by number) are probably the sort of people who would read a forum like this.

That said, I'm sure most people will be able to figure it out anyway.

One press release writer doesn't know what the others are doing either, since 11 will announce traffic changes in the Parkway East rehabilitation project zone with old exit numbers one day and the eventual exit numbers the next.

Well, WPXI-11 last night and today when talking about the section of the Parkway East that was closed completely for construction was using the new exit numbers. lol.

Quote from: rickmastfan67 on October 25, 2009, 07:43:56 PMWell, WPXI-11 last night and today when talking about the section of the Parkway East that was closed completely for construction was using the new exit numbers. lol.

That's because the latest press release (http://www.dot.state.pa.us/Penndot/Districts/district11.nsf/7aff82f1f0b02eb9852576110057af69/8d404303dd4e68f585257655006b5a38?OpenDocument) from District 11 had the new exit numbers.

Quote from: PAHighways on October 25, 2009, 08:02:54 PM

Quote from: rickmastfan67 on October 25, 2009, 07:43:56 PMWell, WPXI-11 last night and today when talking about the section of the Parkway East that was closed completely for construction was using the new exit numbers. lol.

That's because the latest press release (http://www.dot.state.pa.us/Penndot/Districts/district11.nsf/7aff82f1f0b02eb9852576110057af69/8d404303dd4e68f585257655006b5a38?OpenDocument) from District 11 had the new exit numbers.

I know. lol.

Seems they are changing signs again on the Parkway West tonight......  Wish they would just get the exit number changes done on the Parkway East before they change any more signs on the segments that have already gotten their new numbers..... :pan: :no:

http://kdka.com/webcams/26.567214.html?wmid=57 (http://kdka.com/webcams/26.567214.html?wmid=57)
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv645%2Frickmastfan67%2FInterstates%2FPA%2FI-376%2FD11-130.jpg&hash=3304a9321c4f1447498959c4d88a6e7ffa85da3e)

James, you know the exit number changes would have been a great thing to track on your blog.

Well, the down side is that I can't get onto the Parkway East that often to keep track.  All I have to go by is the webcams on KDKA's site.

http://www.postgazette.com/pg/09310/1011377-455.stm (http://www.postgazette.com/pg/09310/1011377-455.stm)

Well... I guess it's official now for the whole route.  (Though they haven't finished redoing the sign work for the current I-376 yet)... though just having some shields out that way probably won't be too difficult or time consuming.

Quote from: J N Winkler on June 12, 2009, 10:56:36 AM
Yup, I just tried it and got the same result.  I think it is possible to get design information for 76609 elsewhere in ECMS, but only if you have an account with the appropriate access permissions (rather than the generic guest account we are all using).

ECMS does have a link to PennDOT's letting schedule:

ftp://ftp.dot.state.pa.us/public/Bureaus/Cpdm/MPMSDATA/letschdl.pdf (http://ftp://ftp.dot.state.pa.us/public/Bureaus/Cpdm/MPMSDATA/letschdl.pdf)

There is also a District 1 redesignation project, 86430, which is meant to cover the bit of Pa. 60/future I-376 in Shenango Township (essentially, in Mercer County between I-80 and the Lawrence County line).  Projected letting date is given as July 9, 2009.  In principle advertising should be imminent, but I get "No records" when I try that number (which strictly speaking is a MPMS number--the ECMS number is not necessarily the same).  There is no listing for 76609, either under that ECMS number or {PA060}.

These two sets of plans are available in the PennDOT ECMS now. 

76609 shows all the signing plans in the area of the New Castle bypass (I-376/US422). 

86430 shows the signing plans for I-80 to PA 18 as "Other4".

PA 60 north of I-80 becomes PA 760 (signed north-south), a number that I don't think has been used before in PA.

I-80 signs at the I-376 & PA 760 interchange:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcmap.m-plex.com%2Fimages%2Fi80i376pa760.gif&hash=c0ebab0208fc1b009ff71af7fc4eb84bd48f848c)

Quote from: Mr_Northside on November 06, 2009, 02:33:37 PM
http://www.postgazette.com/pg/09310/1011377-455.stm (http://www.postgazette.com/pg/09310/1011377-455.stm)

Well... I guess it's official now for the whole route.  (Though they haven't finished redoing the sign work for the current I-376 yet)... though just having some shields out that way probably won't be too difficult or time consuming.

Quote"Many businesses look for interstates and proximity to interstates when they are considering relocation and expansion," said Lawrence County Commissioner Daniel J. Vogler.

I didn't realize there were so many roadgeeks in business.

This is one reason why I entitled my blog entry on this plan "Extending I-376 For All the Wrong Reasons."  As I said to someone on MTR who thought Interstates were the be-all/end-all, it isn't as if the "Interstate Fairy" comes, waves her magic wand, and jobs magically appear.  The reason that Pennsylvania has a poor business climate is not for a lack of Interstates, but for a government "good ol' boy" system that traces its roots to the former industrial base.

Off the soapbox, here is the District 11 press release:  PennDOT Secretary Announces I-376 Officially Extends from Pa Turnpike in Monroeville through Pittsburgh to I-80 in Mercer County (http://www.dot.state.pa.us/penndot/districts/district11.nsf/37fc68a0aa7b94e9852570a70047899c/c1b1fb590f4c687a85257666006eb39e?OpenDocument)

Quote from: treichard on November 06, 2009, 08:54:08 PMPA 60 north of I-80 becomes PA 760 (signed north-south), a number that I don't think has been used before in PA.

No, it was never used in the past.  I figured it would have ended up a x18 since those are clustered around the Sharon area.

Well I guess it's a new route to add to PA State Ends..

They will be talking about this on the 11 O'Clock news tonight on KDKA-2.  Just a heads up for you other Pittsburgh area people.

An x18 number would be reasonable, but that would mean adhering to the original state route numbering system, something that was abandoned long ago (1950s?).  

Instead we have an x60 number, which has a certain logic to it.  It makes for a rare case of a new state route being both even and N-S.  Of course, it's just mimicking PA 60's unusual parity for a N-S expressway.

Most expressways that were given a new state route number fell into two classes:
- associated with an Interstate highway: last two digits match the last two digits of the Interstates (PA 581 with I-81,  PA 576 with I-76/376),
- not associated with an Interstate highway: lowest available two-digit number, odd if N-S (PA 33, PA 43), even if E-W (PA 12).

(You might think that this explanation would designate the Mon-Fayette Expressway as PA 37 since this number wasn't in use, but WV 37 was in use, so PA/WV 43 was the next lowest available number for both states.)

Yet PA 60 didn't fit either option in the 1950s.  It may have been a remnant of the old numbering system, with x0 routes not being restricted to E-W nor N-S routes.  The parity flip was in place by 1961, when state route numbers identical to the new Interstate numbers were renumbered with opposite parity (e.g., PA 95 --> PA 192, etc.).

Quote from: rickmastfan67 on November 06, 2009, 10:39:29 PM
They will be talking about this on the 11 O'Clock news tonight on KDKA-2.  Just a heads up for you other Pittsburgh area people.

Local Highway To Be Renamed I-376 (http://kdka.com/local/Interstate.376.airport.2.1297815.html)

Is route numbering logic really needed to be adhered to anymore?  With so many changes to routes being bypassed, decommissioned, extended etc.? 

With so many route numbers taken in PA - you have to throw the 'logic' or 'rules' out the window. 

Unused numbers are plentiful and the need for new numbers is rather low, so it's likely that a strict numbering system could still work for new routes.  PennDOT uses some system rather than random numbers, but it's not the original system nor a very strict system it seems. It's rather hard to predict what the next state route number would be.

I would have guessed that PA 260 would be the new route if I knew it'd be associated with PA 60, but I suppose the "76" in I-376 and PA 760 was somehow better in PennDOT's eyes.

Maybe they use the same logic that went into I-99 and US 400...

I took 60 from the Clinton interchange to Robinson yesterday and so far no changes, not even to the trailblazers.  Business PA 60 is still signed as such.  New exit numbers are posted as far as Churchill, probably due to the fact that 376 is being rehabbed from Penn Hills east.

I also noticed that all the new I-376 signs that have been put up, either by themselves or on the BGS's downtown & out the Parkway west for just the re-numbering project are the more traditonal shaped shields.
While the contractor doing the current Parkway East rehab from P.Hills <-> Monroeville is putting up new shields using that "bubble" shape. (Which I don't particularly care for).

End/Begin signs are now up at the new end of PA 60 at I-376/US 22/30 in Robinson.  Jason Reighard sent some photos over to me today.

http://surewhynotnow.blogspot.com/2009/11/pa-60-officially-truncated.html

Good to see PennDOT is making some progress.  All they need for that I-376 sign in the picture is a "JCT" sign above it that is blue.

Catching up...

Denny Pine sent some photos along of signs at the Montour Run Interchange.

http://surewhynotnow.blogspot.com/2009/11/more-i-376-signing-updates.html

Parkway East is renumbered and it's attack of the killer Clearview!!!!

Quote from: njroadhorse on November 25, 2009, 06:43:18 PM
Parkway East is renumbered and it's attack of the killer Clearview!!!!

Between the Turnpike and Churchill?  When I was on it on November 9, they were renumbered to the latter.

Quote from: PAHighways on November 26, 2009, 12:03:56 AM

Quote from: njroadhorse on November 25, 2009, 06:43:18 PM
Parkway East is renumbered and it's attack of the killer Clearview!!!!

Between the Turnpike and Churchill?  When I was on it on November 9, they were renumbered to the latter.

And before that too.  At least from Exit 3 to the PA Turnpike is Clearview, with the exception of the PA 48 interchange.

There's a couple of places that old signs are still in use (with a new tab), but a lot of signs have been replaced.  I think they're done Eastbound.

Westbound they still need to do between just after Edgewood/Swissvale <-> downtown.  (Actually, on the way back home last night I noticed they had put up a new "Old Exit 5" for Squirrel Hill, despite the fact they hadn't changed the actual tabs yet.  Then the pole for the next sign for the Squirrel Hill exit still had the "Old Exit 8" sign from the sequential-mileage conversion.  
Westbound they've also mostly installed new signs (where they have changed exit #'s so far), but 2 signs that they just added new tabs 2 are the PA-130/Churchill (Exit Only) signs.  These signs are looking like they should have been replaced as well.
No new mile-markers on the Parkway East yet either.

And as a side note, I like the replacement signs (Eastbound) for the Turnpike.  They added the destinations of Ohio & Harrisburg.  The old ones were just BGS's with a I-76 shield and a Penna-Turnpike Keystone (and distance to).

There were no 376 related changes anywhere on 60 when I was on it coming back from Columbus on the 9th.  Monday I have to travel to the Penguins' front office to pick up a donation for the LHHC's fundraiser on 12/12, so I might take a ride out to PIA if the rain isn't too bad.

Still no IBL-376 signage, but I-376 shields have been installed on PA 60 with 376 at the top of the totem pole and PA 60 playing second fiddle.  I-376 assemblies are now present at the entrance ramps on the interchanges west of 22/30.

Anyway, back to the real topic.

I just received an e-mail from a contributor to Pennsylvania Highways who found some IBL-376 assemblies on University Boulevard at its southern terminus.  Just as on the mainline, they are in tandem with the old Business PA 60 assemblies.

Thanks for the heads up.  Hopefully I'll be able to get over there in the next week or so and get some pictures for everybody.  Been having major car problems.

I WANT PICS :-p <ducks>

I suppose eventually there will be the overhead sign structure that features some unique shields at the Westbound split... With the not-seen-hardly-at-all-in-this-region Business interstate shield, and the adjacent BGS that features the "To" with the PA TPK 576 shield.

Quote from: PAHighways on December 03, 2009, 08:47:03 PM
I just received an e-mail from a contributor to Pennsylvania Highways who found some IBL-376 assemblies on University Boulevard at its southern terminus.  Just as on the mainline, they are in tandem with the old Business PA 60 assemblies.

Have pictures.  Will be posting later today once they are resized and uploaded and other things.

Quote from: rickmastfan67 on December 06, 2009, 04:44:43 PM

Quote from: PAHighways on December 03, 2009, 08:47:03 PM
I just received an e-mail from a contributor to Pennsylvania Highways who found some IBL-376 assemblies on University Boulevard at its southern terminus.  Just as on the mainline, they are in tandem with the old Business PA 60 assemblies.

Have pictures.  Will be posting later today once they are resized and uploaded and other things.

Pennsylvania Highways Gallery:  Highway Markers (http://www.pahighways.com/gallery/markers.html) - at the bottom of the list

I would say almost all of the I-279 shields are replaced as of this weekend.  In addition, the new MM are in place as well.  They have them signed every 1/2 mile.

They haven't gotten to the Parkway East yet with the new milemarkers..
Once they do, THIS mistake will be rectified.  (I'm not sure how long it's been like that, but it's been at least 2 years since I first noticed it.)
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fmysite.verizon.net%2F%7Evze3kr2y%2Fpics%2Fmm10.jpg&hash=e244fb8564d3ee6e202d875a091bc0b8c663d37c)

Of course, that should (have) been Mile 1.  They could have at least painted a dot and pretend it was 1.0
(also, it seems Google prefers calling that US 30... which is technically correct)

Quote from: LeftyJR on December 07, 2009, 11:59:38 AM
I would say almost all of the I-279 shields are replaced as of this weekend.  In addition, the new MM are in place as well.  They have them signed every 1/2 mile.

I said old 279, which is, of course, the Parkway West.  Sorry for the confusion.

Google has finally gotten around to changing the I-279 shields to I-376 (http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=Pittsburgh,+PA&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=34.671324,79.013672&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Pittsburgh,+Allegheny,+Pennsylvania&ll=40.425781,-80.050249&spn=0.065077,0.154324&z=13), and 376 is only designated as far as I-79.  The exit numbers are still 279's.

Quote from: PAHighways on December 26, 2009, 09:32:10 PM
Google has finally gotten around to changing the I-279 shields to I-376 (http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=Pittsburgh,+PA&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=34.671324,79.013672&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Pittsburgh,+Allegheny,+Pennsylvania&ll=40.425781,-80.050249&spn=0.065077,0.154324&z=13), and 376 is only designated as far as I-79.  The exit numbers are still 279's.

Time to start sending in error reports then with links to my pictures with the new exit numbers. LOL.

Also, the exit numbers are also still not updated on the original segment of I-376 in Google.

===

Also, they have "partially" updated I-279's exit numbers.  They now have the new numbers going SB, however the NB numbers are still the old ones..... Google, doing only half jobs since 1998. :P

Quote from: rickmastfan67 on December 26, 2009, 09:34:07 PMTime to start sending in error reports then with links to my pictures with the new exit numbers. LOL.

Just take them over to the Google office on CMU's campus.

Quote from: rickmastfan67 on December 26, 2009, 09:34:07 PMAlso, the exit numbers are also still not updated on the original segment of I-376 in Google.

Nor the Parkway North numbers.

Quote from: PAHighways on December 26, 2009, 10:01:35 PM

Quote from: rickmastfan67 on December 26, 2009, 09:34:07 PMAlso, the exit numbers are also still not updated on the original segment of I-376 in Google.

Nor the Parkway North numbers.

SB ONLY, they have updated the following (while the NB numbers haven't changed): 14 > 7; 12 > 5; 11 > 4

Quote from: PAHighways on December 26, 2009, 10:01:35 PM

Quote from: rickmastfan67 on December 26, 2009, 09:34:07 PMTime to start sending in error reports then with links to my pictures with the new exit numbers. LOL.

Just take them over to the Google office on CMU's campus.

Well, I sumbitted one big error report to them with a link to one of my pictures, plus the PDF that PennDOT posted showing the exit number changes from old to new.  Hopefully they can understand it. lol.  Because I recently got back several error reports from them saying:

Quote"The Google Maps problem you reported has been reviewed. We're currently unable to address issues of this type. We will keep your report and hope to do more to improve our map data in future."

And in those reports, I gave them clear info about what is incorrect and what needed to be changed......  Yet several of my other reports had no problems. Sigh.....

WE INTERRUPT THIS THREAD FOR THE FOLLOWING ANNOUNCEMENT

'TO' I-376 shields have replace 'TO' I-279 shields on PA 51 at the Liberty Tunnel interchange. (dramatic pause) and there are still some I-279 (w/Pennslvania) shields along the Blvd. of the Allies Downtown.

You may now resume your normal thread

I drove past the I-80/PA 60 exit on Christmas Eve going EB.  I do not remember seeing any I-376 signs there yet.

My brother thinks that he saw one on I-80 WB earlier this year.

Wow, Google MAJOR FAIL:

QuoteHi James,

The Google Maps problem you reported has been reviewed. We're currently unable to address issues of this type. We will keep your report and hope to do more to improve our map data in future.


Report history
Problem ID:

Your report: I see you have updated this from I-279 to I-376. However, you don't have the exit numbers correct anymore. This exit that you have listed as #2 is now #65 (both directions). Here's a link to a picture that I personally took on 08/22/09 of the new number: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v645/rickmastfan67/Interstates/PA/I-376/08-22-09/P1060244s.jpg Here's also a link to a PennDOT PDF file showing all of the new exit numbers for I-376 from I-79 all the way to the Turnpike (I-76) in Monroeville so that all the exit numbers can be corrected at the same time without me sending in several error reports for you guys to deal with. All those new exit numbers are already posted. ftp://ftp.dot.state.pa.us/public/Districts/District11/traffic/I-376_Exits.pdf
--
Thanks for your help,
The Google Maps team

Quote from: CanesFan27 on December 27, 2009, 08:36:43 AM
WE INTERRUPT THIS THREAD FOR THE FOLLOWING ANNOUNCEMENT

'TO' I-376 shields have replace 'TO' I-279 shields on PA 51 at the Liberty Tunnel interchange. (dramatic pause) and there are still some I-279 (w/Pennslvania) shields along the Blvd. of the Allies Downtown.

You may now resume your normal thread

The Parkway East has also finally gotten it's new mile-markers.
(Some of them replacing mile markers that were themselves replaced last year (The section rehabbed in 2008))

Quote from: rickmastfan67 on December 28, 2009, 12:05:10 AM
Wow, Google MAJOR FAIL:

QuoteHi James,

The Google Maps problem you reported has been reviewed. We're currently unable to address issues of this type. We will keep your report and hope to do more to improve our map data in future.


Report history
Problem ID:

Your report: I see you have updated this from I-279 to I-376. However, you don't have the exit numbers correct anymore. This exit that you have listed as #2 is now #65 (both directions). Here's a link to a picture that I personally took on 08/22/09 of the new number: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v645/rickmastfan67/Interstates/PA/I-376/08-22-09/P1060244s.jpg Here's also a link to a PennDOT PDF file showing all of the new exit numbers for I-376 from I-79 all the way to the Turnpike (I-76) in Monroeville so that all the exit numbers can be corrected at the same time without me sending in several error reports for you guys to deal with. All those new exit numbers are already posted. ftp://ftp.dot.state.pa.us/public/Districts/District11/traffic/I-376_Exits.pdf
--
Thanks for your help,
The Google Maps team

Stuff like this is probably why their map data is so bad right now.

We could all resubmit the error until they get sick of us...

I know what you mean.  Honestly, there are a few that they punted back to me that I feel like re-reporting..

It seems they have finally got around to finish the renumbering on the Parkway West.  Just caught this view on the traffic cams at the I-376/US-22/US-30/PA-60 interchange.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv645%2Frickmastfan67%2FInterstates%2FPA%2FI-376%2FD11-65.jpg&hash=3cc777271463d223738ee94de6a77c2f606d07a4)

Quote from: deanej on December 28, 2009, 06:36:52 PM

Quote from: rickmastfan67 on December 28, 2009, 12:05:10 AM
Wow, Google MAJOR FAIL:

QuoteHi James,

The Google Maps problem you reported has been reviewed. We're currently unable to address issues of this type. We will keep your report and hope to do more to improve our map data in future.


Report history
Problem ID:

Your report: I see you have updated this from I-279 to I-376. However, you don't have the exit numbers correct anymore. This exit that you have listed as #2 is now #65 (both directions). Here's a link to a picture that I personally took on 08/22/09 of the new number: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v645/rickmastfan67/Interstates/PA/I-376/08-22-09/P1060244s.jpg Here's also a link to a PennDOT PDF file showing all of the new exit numbers for I-376 from I-79 all the way to the Turnpike (I-76) in Monroeville so that all the exit numbers can be corrected at the same time without me sending in several error reports for you guys to deal with. All those new exit numbers are already posted. ftp://ftp.dot.state.pa.us/public/Districts/District11/traffic/I-376_Exits.pdf
--
Thanks for your help,
The Google Maps team

Stuff like this is probably why their map data is so bad right now.

Well, I've just re-checked Google Maps and they have now updated all of the exit numbers along I-376.  :-D  So, it seems they did pay attention to my report, but refused to acknowledge I was correct.

But they are still missing the numbers from Exit #60 to #64A (#64A is shown only going WB).

Also, they have gotten I-279 updated as well.

Yesterday I had to take a trip up to the Cleveland area for work, and went via I-376 to I-76..
None of the overhead BGS's in Allegheny County (West of I-79) have been modified to show I-376, though there are plenty of ground level shields, and the milemarkers... and the tabs have the new numbers.  Though the stretch between I-79 & PA-60, that never had any exit numbers & tabs, still does not.
(Observation about the new milemarkers - Once you get into Beaver county, the little 376 shields on them become bubble shields, and they don't bother with the ".0" for "whole" miles... which seems odd since it's the same PennDOT district as Allegheny County)

The PTC seems to have yet to do anything concerning the switch.  No new MM's, tabs, or even a single shield.  (And no reference to it on the mainline/76)

Quote from: Mr_Northside on February 04, 2010, 09:49:36 AM
Yesterday I had to take a trip up to the Cleveland area for work, and went via I-376 to I-76..
None of the overhead BGS's in Allegheny County (West of I-79) have been modified to show I-376, though there are plenty of ground level shields, and the milemarkers... and the tabs have the new numbers.  Though the stretch between I-79 & PA-60, that never had any exit numbers & tabs, still does not.
(Observation about the new milemarkers - Once you get into Beaver county, the little 376 shields on them become bubble shields, and they don't bother with the ".0" for "whole" miles... which seems odd since it's the same PennDOT district as Allegheny County)

The PTC seems to have yet to do anything concerning the switch.  No new MM's, tabs, or even a single shield.  (And no reference to it on the mainline/76)

Believe it or not around 1996 and 97, the exit gores for the stretch of the parkway between 79 and 60 had exit numbers.  The original Campbells Run Road Exit had either 12 or 13. I may still have a photo of it in some old shoebox somewhere.

By the time I graduated from RMU, the numbered exit gores had been removed from accidents and construction.  But I guess the state had planned to give US 22 from I-79 to the WV line exit numbers but it never went anywhere.

Have PA 760 signs appeared north of I-80?

Google (http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=40.784701,-80.510559&spn=1.035651,2.469177&z=9) has finally acknowledged the extension of I-376.  Coming back from the airport today I noticed the odd lack of exit numbers between 79 and 60 but the 22/30/60 cloverleaf has been changed from 1A/B to 60A/B.

Quote from: PAHighways on February 09, 2010, 08:41:03 PM
Google (http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=40.784701,-80.510559&spn=1.035651,2.469177&z=9) has finally acknowledged the extension of I-376.  Coming back from the airport today I noticed the odd lack of exit numbers between 79 and 60 but the 22/30/60 cloverleaf has been changed from 1A/B to 60A/B.

Mentioned that back on the 2nd. ;)

They knew the change was coming eventually, you think they'd have provisioned tab space, at least on all the new signs/structures they just put in for the I-279/I-79 missing ramps project.

Quote from: Mr_Northside on February 10, 2010, 09:59:08 AM
They knew the change was coming eventually, you think they'd have provisioned tab space, at least on all the new signs/structures they just put in for the I-279/I-79 missing ramps project.

I know what you mean.  That was just a waste of taxpayer money by not leaving space on the signs they had for US-22/30 (only) for a I-376 shield.

it is entirely possible that the signing plans were done prior to any of these announcements.

Quote from: CanesFan27 on February 10, 2010, 06:41:21 PM
it is entirely possible that the signing plans were done prior to any of these announcements.

If I remember correctly, they knew they were in the future going to change that to I-376 there before they did the signage plans for that interchange.  I could be wrong, but that's how I remember it.

Getting down to specifics:  the ECMS number for the I-79/I-279 missing ramps contract (SR 0079 Section A23) is 26995 and it had its bid opening on August 3, 2006.  According to Kurumi's guide to three-digit interchanges (http://www.kurumi.com/roads/3di/ix76.html#376pa), which is much more specific with regard to dates than the Wikipedia article on I-376 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interstate_376), the redesignation was already in the works by 2000 and was formally announced (to I-76 in Beaver County) by Rick Santorum (of "homosexuality is worse than bestiality" fame) in October 2005.  The further extension to I-80 was a later development.

The question, as I understand it, is whether PennDOT erred by failing to take account of the future I-376 redesignation in the signing plans for ECMS 26995.  Based on a quick review of the signing plans (which I downloaded almost a year ago), I would say No.  The plans contain no explicit indication that I-279 would become I-376 at some future point.  On the other hand, the sign panels are all at the correct sizes to accommodate replacement of I-279 shields with I-376 shields.  I am not aware of any text messages which would have had to be changed to longer legends (which would not fit on the sign panels without dropping a few alphabet series) as part of the redesignation.

Your personal views on Rick Santorum aside, there was also doubt on how quickly the US 22/30 and PA 60 parts of what is now I-376 would be upgraded to standards or even allowed.

Yup:  the October 2005 announcement fixed the January 1, 2009 date for I-376, but did not have any details regarding implementation.  So the sign designs for ECMS 26995 needed to cover the possibility that the ex-I-279 portion of what is now I-376 would remain part of I-279 some time after the project was finished.  They also had to leave enough room on the new signs for I-376 shields and destination messages for a changeover to I-376 within the lifetime of the signs.  Even if the sign designers had taken a gamble on early redesignation as I-376, the exit numbers would still have been wrong because they are keyed to the start of the route and that moved between 2005 (when the designs would have had to be finalized) and 2009.

Quote from: J N Winkler on February 11, 2010, 06:58:26 AMGetting down to specifics:  the ECMS number for the I-79/I-279 missing ramps contract (SR 0079 Section A23) is 26995 and it had its bid opening on August 3, 2006.  According to Kurumi's guide to three-digit interchanges (http://www.kurumi.com/roads/3di/ix76.html#376pa), which is much more specific with regard to dates than the Wikipedia article on I-376 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interstate_376), the redesignation was already in the works by 2000 and was formally announced (to I-76 in Beaver County) by Rick Santorum (of "homosexuality is worse than bestiality" fame) in October 2005.

According to a site more credible than Wikithevia, the announcement of the extension took place October 17, 2005 but the idea for extending the I-376 designation has been discussed since the late 1990s.

Quote from: PAHighways on February 12, 2010, 08:16:29 PM
According to a site more credible than Wikithevia,

That's uncalled for, Jeff. If you know of any instances of plagiarism by Wikipedia editors, let me know and the offending text or images will be scrubbed and the user dealt with.

Quote from: Scott5114 on February 13, 2010, 09:32:59 PMThat's uncalled for, Jeff. If you know of any instances of plagiarism by Wikipedia editors, let me know and the offending text or images will be scrubbed and the user dealt with.

I'm not the first person to use that term on this message board.  It wasn't meant as a personal attack against any of the editors here but rather a general observation of plagiarism I have seen too often on that website.

When I have found things copied verbatim, which seemed to happen a lot when Wikipedia began, I have alerted people I know who are editors. Then there was an instance of someone using the handle "Pahighways" who was incorrectly editing Pennsylvania road articles, and I didn't even know about that until an editor I know informed me of the issues they were having with that person.

Plus, the date information didn't actually come from Wikipedia.

I understand that information came from Scott's site.

Any news on PA 760?  Is it signed yet in Sharon or near I-80?

For a project I'm working on, I need to know if PA 760 will end at PA 418 & PA 718 or if it will extend (as PA 60 did) north along PA 718 up to US 62 Business. 

PennDOT has just advertised a contract to rehabilitate a portion of former SR 60 Business (now I-376 Business) which runs from the southern I-376 interchange to Pittsburgh International Airport.  ECMS number is 78283 and there are about ten pages of sign design sheets.  This road is a full freeway, more or less, with the exception of a traffic signal at University Blvd., and part but not all of the length being worked on is on PennDOT's books as SR 3160.

Quote from: J N Winkler on March 13, 2010, 12:29:00 PM
PennDOT has just advertised a contract to rehabilitate a portion of former SR 60 Business (now I-376 Business) which runs from the southern I-376 interchange to Pittsburgh International Airport.  ECMS number is 78283 and there are about ten pages of sign design sheets.  This road is a full freeway, more or less, with the exception of a traffic signal at University Blvd., and part but not all of the length being worked on is on PennDOT's books as SR 3160.

I think you mean the former terminal for the airport.  There is no direct access from Business 60/376 to the airport.  there is access to the Cargo terminals if that is what you are referring to.

Yes, that is right; I wasn't talking about the terminal access.  The portion involved in this contract fringes the airport to the north and some of the signs being replaced are for the cargo terminals and other airport facilities which do not handle passengers.

Quote from: J N Winkler on March 13, 2010, 12:29:00 PMThis road is a full freeway, more or less, with the exception of a traffic signal at University Blvd., and part but not all of the length being worked on is on PennDOT's books as SR 3160.

As well as carrying the Orange Belt.

I-376 Re-designation Sign Installation Continues Tonight in Allegheny County (http://www.dot.state.pa.us/Penndot/Districts/district11.nsf/93a05958cad04c09852571e60056cfc3/39041270cba68af9852576ee0062b30b?OpenDocument)

Quote from: PAHighways on March 22, 2010, 09:01:14 PM
I-376 Re-designation Sign Installation Continues Tonight in Allegheny County (http://www.dot.state.pa.us/Penndot/Districts/district11.nsf/93a05958cad04c09852571e60056cfc3/39041270cba68af9852576ee0062b30b?OpenDocument)

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!  This sounds like they are going to be replacing all the remaining Button Copy in Downtown!!!! :pan: :-(

All of those signs Downtown are still in very good shape.

This topic has been moved to General Highway Talk (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?board=12).

https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=2619.0 (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=2619.0)

===

All of the Airport Guide Sign stuff has now been moved to it's own topic. :)

Re-post by request:

Looks like they're back at work replacing signs.

Noticed this from a PennDOT camera along I-79 (yes, I am bored enough to peep that shit, and then post about it)....
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fmysite.verizon.net%2F%7Evze3kr2y%2Fpics%2Ferrorsign.jpg&hash=1b65e3e35429b1fd74f8301fb73b32a2117fa730)

Of course, this new sign has a slight error, with that "West" next to the 376.  (The tab & destinations show the sign is obviously for both directions of the Parkway)

I'd like to think the reason PennDOT is/was pointing the camera close up to the sign was because they noticed the same thing.  Who knows.

Jason Reighard sent along photos showing PA Business 60 has become Business Loop I-376 near Pittsburgh International Airport.

http://surewhynotnow.blogspot.com/2010/04/business-i-376-shields-now-up-near.html

Ed Szuba sent some photos of the conversion along the Beaver Valley Expressway...wow a lot different than the all text, sequential numbered, button copy signs I saw when I drove this road regularly.

http://surewhynotnow.blogspot.com/2010/04/more-photos-from-pa-60-to-i-376.html

Quote from: CanesFan27 on April 04, 2010, 01:23:18 PM
Jason Reighard sent along photos showing PA Business 60 has become Business Loop I-376 near Pittsburgh International Airport.

http://surewhynotnow.blogspot.com/2010/04/business-i-376-shields-now-up-near.html

Those are some ugly looking whiteouts behind the Business shields.....  Hey PENNDOT, other DOT's can post Business Interstate shields properly on BGS and don't have to add white boxes around them.... :pan:

Over on the other side of the state, PennDOT proved they CAN properly post a Bus-I shield on a BGS...
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=York,+PA&sll=39.962598,-76.727745&sspn=0.04684,0.077162&g=York,+PA&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=York,+Pennsylvania&ll=39.915135,-76.704397&spn=0.046872,0.109863&z=14&layer=c&cbll=39.915251,-76.704458&panoid=kDrBRz3Zo4TeqdaXyccWZA&cbp=12,356.63,,0,-7.52 (http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=York,+PA&sll=39.962598,-76.727745&sspn=0.04684,0.077162&g=York,+PA&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=York,+Pennsylvania&ll=39.915135,-76.704397&spn=0.046872,0.109863&z=14&layer=c&cbll=39.915251,-76.704458&panoid=kDrBRz3Zo4TeqdaXyccWZA&cbp=12,356.63,,0,-7.52)

It seems that PA-Tpk 576 set the pretty ugly precedent of a whiteout behind a green-and-white shield. 

(Technically, at the US-22/66 SPUI in Delmont, the TPK-66 shields also do that, and those signs have been there for almost a decade now.)

Quote from: rickmastfan67 on April 05, 2010, 08:30:43 AM

Quote from: CanesFan27 on April 04, 2010, 01:23:18 PM
Jason Reighard sent along photos showing PA Business 60 has become Business Loop I-376 near Pittsburgh International Airport.

http://surewhynotnow.blogspot.com/2010/04/business-i-376-shields-now-up-near.html

Those are some ugly looking whiteouts behind the Business shields.....  Hey PENNDOT, other DOT's can post Business Interstate shields properly on BGS and don't have to add white boxes around them.... :pan:

The white box background is an option for posting Business Loop Interstate signage on guide signs. There was a proposal to upgrade it to recommended versus allowed; see page 41 (item 167) of http://edocket.access.gpo.gov/2009/pdf/E9-28322.pdf

One would think it would suffice just to outwardly (and not inwardly) thicken the white shield border for use on green guide signs, where there's always some extra green space around the shield.  But keep it in a shield shape instead of expanding it to a distracting rectangle.

I think Nevada has had white squares for business loops as far back as the late 1990s. 

Quote from: AARoads on April 05, 2010, 11:24:38 AM

Quote from: rickmastfan67 on April 05, 2010, 08:30:43 AM

Quote from: CanesFan27 on April 04, 2010, 01:23:18 PM
Jason Reighard sent along photos showing PA Business 60 has become Business Loop I-376 near Pittsburgh International Airport.

http://surewhynotnow.blogspot.com/2010/04/business-i-376-shields-now-up-near.html

Those are some ugly looking whiteouts behind the Business shields.....  Hey PENNDOT, other DOT's can post Business Interstate shields properly on BGS and don't have to add white boxes around them.... :pan:

The white box background is an option for posting Business Loop Interstate signage on guide signs. There was a proposal to upgrade it to recommended versus allowed; see page 41 (item 167) of http://edocket.access.gpo.gov/2009/pdf/E9-28322.pdf

Still, it looks ugly as heck. :ded:

Was the white box background done to be sure the sign covered up the old BUS PA 60 signs?

Quote from: mightyace on April 05, 2010, 06:57:06 PM
Was the white box background done to be sure the sign covered up the old BUS PA 60 signs?

Highly unlikely.  If you look hard enough at the Exit #51 BL I-376 signs, you can clearly see a Greenout that covers the entire width of the sign.  Because nothing else changed on it:
http://maps.google.com/maps?client=firefox-a&hl=en&ie=UTF8&layer=c&cbll=40.506435,-80.281312&panoid=csoZqmOlZoQRLkMZIsnLZA&cbp=12,21.16,,0,0.08&ll=40.506613,-80.281252&spn=0,359.986063&z=17

However, I'm just hoping this is a temporary band-aid like on some of the signs on the Parkway West.  Because a few signs got greenovers when I-376 was placed on it, but then later got brand new signs.  I'm just hoping if they are temporary band-aids, that the new signs have no white box around the BL I-376 shields.

Quote from: rickmastfan67 on April 05, 2010, 07:24:22 PM
Highly unlikely.  If you look hard enough at the Exit #51 BL I-376 signs, you can clearly see a Greenout that covers the entire width of the sign.

I looked at those images and I still can't see it.  But, I'm glad you can.  Thanks for the information.

Quote from: mightyace on April 05, 2010, 07:51:25 PM

Quote from: rickmastfan67 on April 05, 2010, 07:24:22 PM
Highly unlikely.  If you look hard enough at the Exit #51 BL I-376 signs, you can clearly see a Greenout that covers the entire width of the sign.

I looked at those images and I still can't see it.  But, I'm glad you can.  Thanks for the information.

Guess it kinda helps that I have a LCD monitor and can see the color difference.

Quote from: rickmastfan67 on April 05, 2010, 08:19:10 PM

Quote from: mightyace on April 05, 2010, 07:51:25 PM

Quote from: rickmastfan67 on April 05, 2010, 07:24:22 PM
Highly unlikely.  If you look hard enough at the Exit #51 BL I-376 signs, you can clearly see a Greenout that covers the entire width of the sign.

I looked at those images and I still can't see it.  But, I'm glad you can.  Thanks for the information.

Guess it kinda helps that I have a LCD monitor and can see the color difference.

I have an LCD monitor but it's using VGA (analog) input as I couldn't get it to work with DVI!   :-(

Quote from: mightyace on April 05, 2010, 08:22:29 PM

Quote from: rickmastfan67 on April 05, 2010, 08:19:10 PM

Quote from: mightyace on April 05, 2010, 07:51:25 PM

Quote from: rickmastfan67 on April 05, 2010, 07:24:22 PM
Highly unlikely.  If you look hard enough at the Exit #51 BL I-376 signs, you can clearly see a Greenout that covers the entire width of the sign.

I looked at those images and I still can't see it.  But, I'm glad you can.  Thanks for the information.

Guess it kinda helps that I have a LCD monitor and can see the color difference.

I have an LCD monitor but it's using VGA (analog) input as I couldn't get it to work with DVI!   :-(

That stinks. :(  I was lucky to get the DVI to work on mine.  What type of Video card do you have in your system?  I have a ATI 4850 here.

PennDOT Announces Roadwork on SR 60 in Mercer County (http://www.dot.state.pa.us/penndot/Districts/D1news.nsf/fa7602f9709f548985256e97005f6fdb/89f51cf7835c63bb852576fc006b07b3/$FILE/Mercer%20County%20SR%2060%20Project.pdf)

Quote from: rickmastfan67 on April 05, 2010, 08:24:45 PM
That stinks. :(  I was lucky to get the DVI to work on mine.  What type of Video card do you have in your system?  I have a ATI 4850 here.

This is my work system and it has an ATI Radeon 9250 in here and is a Dell system connecting to a Dell monitor.  But, I think the issue is that I'm running Windows Server 2003 here and there's no driver for the card for this OS, so I had to use the XP driver.  Or, in other words, there's not much I can do to fix that as I don't control my hardware or OS here.

Quote from: rickmastfan67 on April 05, 2010, 07:24:22 PM
I'm just hoping if they are temporary band-aids, that the new signs have no white box around the BL I-376 shields.

I don't think I'd hold out too much hope for that... temporary or not.

Quote from: Mr_Northside on April 06, 2010, 09:31:21 AM

Quote from: rickmastfan67 on April 05, 2010, 07:24:22 PM
I'm just hoping if they are temporary band-aids, that the new signs have no white box around the BL I-376 shields.

I don't think I'd hold out too much hope for that... temporary or not.

I can still hope. :)

I-376 Re-designation Sign Installation Continues Next Week in Allegheny County (http://www.dot.state.pa.us/Penndot/Districts/district11.nsf/93a05958cad04c09852571e60056cfc3/4a5d564f5aeaeb75852577000061eae5?OpenDocument)

Quote from: PAHighways on April 09, 2010, 09:42:29 PM
I-376 Re-designation Sign Installation Continues Next Week in Allegheny County (http://www.dot.state.pa.us/Penndot/Districts/district11.nsf/93a05958cad04c09852571e60056cfc3/4a5d564f5aeaeb75852577000061eae5?OpenDocument)

I can confirm that they have been removing the Button Copy around I-579.  I was in Downtown Pittsburgh a few weeks ago and they had already changed some of the Button Copy to Clearview around Mellon Arena. :(

Quote from: PAHighways on April 05, 2010, 09:24:17 PM
PennDOT Announces Roadwork on SR 60 in Mercer County (http://www.dot.state.pa.us/penndot/Districts/D1news.nsf/fa7602f9709f548985256e97005f6fdb/89f51cf7835c63bb852576fc006b07b3/$FILE/Mercer%20County%20SR%2060%20Project.pdf)

Possibly the newest state route PA 760 will finally show up in signs.

It's now in a few maps:
Mercer County
http://ftp://ftp.dot.state.pa.us/public/pdf/BPR_pdf_files/Maps/GHS/Roadnames/mercer_GHSN.PDF
(PennDOT updated their county maps last week. April 2010 replaces the Oct. 2009 version.)

Shenango Township
http://ftp://ftp.dot.state.pa.us/public/pdf/BPR_pdf_files/Maps/Township/Mercer/43224.pdf

(Delete the "http://" that the forum adds to the URLs.)  (I tried, to no avail - SMA)

Just an update on the Button Copy signage in Downtown Pittsburgh.

BUTTON COPY IS DEAD (well, almost completely)

:no: :-(

There is just one sign remaining around the Mellon Arena that is Button Copy.  I'll have a blog post with pictures documenting this later.  Documented all this when I was Downtown for Game #2 of the Pens/Sens series.

Outbound Parkway West Lane Closures Monday and Tuesday Nights (http://www.dot.state.pa.us/Penndot/Districts/district11.nsf/93a05958cad04c09852571e60056cfc3/e203b0fb549ef63e8525770a005731fa?OpenDocument)

Sign work in conjunction with the change from 60 to 376 will involve the areas near Exit 50 (IBL-376) and Exit 56 (McLaren Road).

Quote from: treichard on April 10, 2010, 11:49:53 AM(Delete the "http://" that the forum adds to the URLs.)  (I tried, to no avail - SMA)

This problem has surfaced here before (SMF doesn't implement non-HTTP URLs).  Just deleting the "http://" won't work if the link has been copied, since SMF also deletes the colon between "ftp" and the double slash in the URL.  It is necessary to highlight the correct part of the displayed (butchered) URL with the cursor and then copy it.

Re-designation Sign Installation Continues Tonight in Southwest Allegheny County (http://www.dot.state.pa.us/Penndot/Districts/district11.nsf/93a05958cad04c09852571e60056cfc3/7c4c5009ae1d69c38525770c00498e7e?OpenDocument)

Quote from: PAHighways on April 21, 2010, 08:09:20 PM
Re-designation Sign Installation Continues Tonight in Southwest Allegheny County (http://www.dot.state.pa.us/Penndot/Districts/district11.nsf/93a05958cad04c09852571e60056cfc3/7c4c5009ae1d69c38525770c00498e7e?OpenDocument)

Wait a sec.......  I-576??????

QuotePennDOT District 11 is advising motorists intermittent, short-term single lane closures will occur on the Parkway West (I-376), Business 376, and I-576 (PA Turnpike) on Wednesday and Thursday nights, April 21-22, in Allegheny County, weather permitting.

Does that mean that the FHWA signed off on upgrading PA Turnpike 576 to I-576, or did PennDOT just screw up on the PR?

Quote from: rickmastfan67 on April 21, 2010, 10:03:10 PMDoes that mean that the FHWA signed off on upgrading PA Turnpike 576 to I-576, or did PennDOT just screw up on the PR?

I would guess the latter.

Quote from: rickmastfan67 on September 23, 2009, 08:31:30 PM

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv645%2Frickmastfan67%2FInterstates%2FPA%2FI-376%2FP1050654s.jpg&hash=a0fd89cb18aac5cf4b9b66cf2b66bd4e97acc848)
(Taken July 30th, 2009)

I-576 is taking over the lost Interstate mileage from PA 76.

(not true, of course)

Surely a mistake.  But now that PA 576 connects to an Interstate and has a second NHS terminus, could the completed part gain Interstate status as early as the second-next AASHTO meeting (Fall 2010)?  Five or so years ago, possibly before the I-376 extension was planned, the PTC told me they expected PA 576 to become I-576 when it was wholly completed from PA 60 to I-376 Monroeville.

(Or do PTC emails concerning tolled Interstates go in the FHWA spam folder now?)

I figured the PTC was waiting till it was done to make the switch (assuming they still wanted to).
Of course, there is the very real possibility that current 576 will be all there ever is to it.  (Though even if the rest of the Mon-Fayette / Southern beltway gets canceled due to lack of money, I personally think at least getting 576 continued to I-79 should be pursued... but that's getting off-topic).

Also, I can vouch that as of yesterday, the PA TPK-76 sign is still present in Churchill.

I too heard the PTC expected the I-576 designation to be applied to the Southern Beltway, but I don't expect it to happen much like I didn't expect I-80 to get tolled.

I-376 Re-designation Sign Installation Continues Next Week in Allegheny County (http://www.dot.state.pa.us/Penndot/Districts/district11.nsf/93a05958cad04c09852571e60056cfc3/1331a1f162c9de3a8525771c005e7cf0?OpenDocument)

Quote from: PAHighways on May 07, 2010, 09:44:48 PM
I-376 Re-designation Sign Installation Continues Next Week in Allegheny County (http://www.dot.state.pa.us/Penndot/Districts/district11.nsf/93a05958cad04c09852571e60056cfc3/1331a1f162c9de3a8525771c005e7cf0?OpenDocument)

Sounds like they are going to be finally replacing the really big BGS's on I-279 in this set of work for the I-279/I-579 split so they can include "TO I-376" shields.

Rolling Closures for Sign Installation on Interstate 80 and SR 60 in Mercer County (http://www.dot.state.pa.us/penndot/Districts/D1news.nsf/fa7602f9709f548985256e97005f6fdb/c999f66536700e3785257726005defd8/$FILE/Mercer%20County%20Interstate%2080%20Closures%20for%20Sign%20Replacement%20.pdf)

I-376 Re-designation Sign Installation Continues this week in Allegheny County (http://www.dot.state.pa.us/Penndot/Districts/district11.nsf/93a05958cad04c09852571e60056cfc3/e571f600b677064f85257727005e795a?OpenDocument)

A fan of Pennsylvania Highways from the New Castle area has posted pictures of the signage changes that have taken place at the I-80/I-376/PA 760 cloverleaf as well as along the PA 760 alignment on its Facebook (http://www.facebook.com/pahighways/) page.

Sweet.

Did anyone save the original button copy signs near New Castle or have they been sent to China to be melted down into something new?

If anything, they'll probably only go as far as Meadville to finish the PennDOT Sign Garden.

Joe Gerard also sent me the PA 760 photos...I've added them and a look at the old North end of PA 60 as well as a few other ends I just received from Denny Pine.

http://surewhynotnow.blogspot.com/2010/05/introducing-pa-760-and-other-pa-end.html

You gotta love that, despite being placed in the same general location & around the same time, the I-376 shield with the "end" tab is a "bubble" shield, but the "begin" shield is old-school.

Quote from: Mr_Northside on May 26, 2010, 09:30:59 AM
the "begin" shield is old-school.

the "begin" shield is nowhere close to old-school.

this is an old-school shield, and there is even older than that.

(//www.aaroads.com/shields/misc/interstate_pennsylvania_376.png)

I saw the new signs when I went past Exit 4 in Mercer County on May 23rd.  I didn't know that they had only been up a few days.

Alas, I have no photos as I went through at 10pm and we returned back via NC!   :-(

Because of all the new signage upgrades related to the extension of I-376, I-579 got a brand new END shield going Southbound.

Just saw it today, but was on the wrong road to get a picture of it (was on the Center Ave overpass).  It's approx location is on the lightpole in this StreetView (http://maps.google.com/maps?client=firefox-a&hl=en&ie=UTF8&ll=40.440211,-79.993215&spn=0,0.006968&z=18&layer=c&cbll=40.440017,-79.993391&panoid=7BNuyVoq3hZmGBEcdmLMDw&cbp=12,211.15,,0,-2.09) picture.

Meanwhile, this
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.interstate-guide.com%2Fimages579%2Fi-579_pa_nt_02.jpg&hash=718e7fde0fe0d305813142593131912e8b146a06)
END shield still remains as does all of the other state named I-579 shields.  In fact, I think the brand new Southbound END I-579 shield is the only one that doesn't have a state name in it.

Also, this "I-579 SOUTH; Liberty Bridge" sign (http://maps.google.com/maps?client=firefox-a&hl=en&ie=UTF8&ll=40.439517,-79.993612&spn=0,0.006968&z=18&layer=c&cbll=40.439608,-79.993575&panoid=fdXgeWaer57vHG6jYQ3ODw&cbp=12,203.94,,0,-3.06) was changed completely.  No longer does the replacement sign mention I-579.  It now says "TO US-19 PA-51; Liberty Bridge".  I hope to get pictures sometime in the future.

I saw it, unfortunately not in time to get a picture for the I-579 Ends (http://www.pahighways.com/interstates/ends/I579ends.html) page, a few weeks back but I remember it being located in front of the gantry (http://maps.google.com/maps?client=firefox-a&hl=en&ie=UTF8&layer=c&cbll=40.439509,-79.993617&panoid=5z1xCkVA-gJQs4baMQBKDQ&cbp=12,226.47,,0,-3.59&ll=40.439598,-79.993579&spn=0,0.004823&z=18).

Quote from: PAHighways on June 06, 2010, 12:51:15 AM
I saw it, unfortunately not in time to get a picture for the I-579 Ends (http://www.pahighways.com/interstates/ends/I579ends.html) page, a few weeks back but I remember it being located in front of the gantry (http://maps.google.com/maps?client=firefox-a&hl=en&ie=UTF8&layer=c&cbll=40.439509,-79.993617&panoid=5z1xCkVA-gJQs4baMQBKDQ&cbp=12,226.47,,0,-3.59&ll=40.439598,-79.993579&spn=0,0.004823&z=18).

Maybe you're right on the location.  I just noticed it barely today.

If PennDOT points the camera in the right direction, you can see the new "To 51/19" sign.  (That's how I noticed a few weeks ago, since I don't regularly drive down I-579)

Confusion Lingers Over the New Interstate 376 (http://www.wkbn.com/content/news/local/story/Confusion-Lingers-Over-the-New-Interstate-376/FrQIIiJURkS3V8kIBKKMaw.cspx)

New Signage Marks Turnpike 60 Conversion to I-376 (http://www.paturnpike.com/Press/2010/20100702121630.htm) - PTC

Denny Pine was kind enough to send two photos of the newly signed I-579 Southern end along.

http://surewhynotnow.blogspot.com/2010/07/interstate-579-southern-end-now-sign.html

Effective August 1 New Signage Marks Turnpike 60 Conversion to I-376 (http://www.paturnpike.com/Press/2010/20100726160344.htm) - PTC

From the press release:

QuoteTolls will remain the same.

Gee, I thought they'd raise the tolls to pay for the signage and/or the fact that it is an Interstate now.

I was just in the Beaver Falls area this past week and all of the signs along Route 18 still say "To Toll 60", no updates have been made in this area yet for 376.

Quote from: CanesFan27 on July 08, 2010, 11:15:12 AM
Denny Pine was kind enough to send two photos of the newly signed I-579 Southern end along.

http://surewhynotnow.blogspot.com/2010/07/interstate-579-southern-end-now-sign.html

What's up with the lane markings in the first picture?

Quote from: Truvelo on July 29, 2010, 04:39:17 PM

Quote from: CanesFan27 on July 08, 2010, 11:15:12 AM
Denny Pine was kind enough to send two photos of the newly signed I-579 Southern end along.

http://surewhynotnow.blogspot.com/2010/07/interstate-579-southern-end-now-sign.html

What's up with the lane markings in the first picture?

Crosstown Boulevard is only two lanes, but there is on-ramp that joins right there, so it is just an issue of lane spacing and how the ramps to the Liberty Bridge and Boulevard of the Allies connect.

I also noticed that PennDOT (at least in District 11) has been using an interesting twist on Clearview.  The first capital letter on many of these signs seems to be wider than the rest of the words.  Its just subtle enough that most people don't notice.

While it's not really related to the I-376 renumbering at all, I noticed that PennDOT has started to change the "Mellon Arena" on the BGS's on the Parkways to "Consol Center".

They should have done this in conjunction with the 376 redesignation work and knocked it all out in one swoop.

Unlike other press releases, this one (http://www.dot.state.pa.us/penndot/Districts/District11.nsf/93a05958cad04c09852571e60056cfc3/951d2c788aa3027f85257762006ccde1?OpenDocument) has a contact number for a person at the Penguins rather than someone with PennDOT.

Joe Gerard has posted a few pictures of the new signage along former Turnpike 60 on the Pennsylvania Highways Facebook page.  The James E. Ross Highway section now has 376 assemblies (http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=4682817&o=all&op=1&view=all&subj=80652462351&aid=-1&id=540662080) with the black-on-yellow "TOLL" auxiliary marker introduced in the 2009 MUTCD, which marks the first instance of their use in Pennsylvania.

Well, I think we'll only see that "TOLL" banner on the I-376 section of the Turnpike because the rest of the highway is free.  It at leasts let people know it's a TOLL road.  It would be worthless on the mainline of the PA Turnpike.  And with I-476, it's clear enought to tell where it goes from Free to Toll.

Why is I-376 extended from its original terminus towards I-79, then goes north to I-76 again, then north to I-80? why is it called I-376? why not I-876 or something like that?

---

Post Merge: April 28, 2011, 01:42:42 AM

---

In Pittsburgh area, i mean.

QuoteWhy is I-376 extended from its original terminus towards I-79, then goes north to I-76 again, then north to I-80?

I imagine because the whole corridor, with the exception of the trumpet @ New Castle (which they did a pretty good job with slight alterations making it seem like 376 is the "thru-route" with a left exit & merge), was crapped together over the years as a single road.

It was seen fit to number the whole thing as such (and politicians touted benefits of having an Interstate designation where there was previously none), rather than the hodgepodge of routes the corridor previously was.  

Quotewhy is it called I-376? why not I-876 or something like that?

I imagine that since I-376 already existed, it was seen as more simple and less confusing to just "extend" what was already there, rather than switch numbers to something new.

It's a goofy corridor to be sure, and though it's signed East-West, I'm pretty sure it does more North-South between it's termini. But in the long-term, for the Average Joe, I'd have to imagine it is easier to deal with.

Quote from: Buummu on April 28, 2011, 01:00:16 AM
Why is I-376 extended from its original terminus towards I-79, then goes north to I-76 again, then north to I-80? why is it called I-376? why not I-876 or something like that?

---

Post Merge: December 31, 1969, 06:59:59 PM

---

In Pittsburgh area, i mean.

Because Jeff Kitsko didn't want to write a new page on his website, that's why.

At least he'd write a new one and update, unlike WCR...

Quote from: Mr_Northside on April 28, 2011, 02:41:41 PM

QuoteWhy is I-376 extended from its original terminus towards I-79, then goes north to I-76 again, then north to I-80?

I imagine because the whole corridor, with the exception of the trumpet @ New Castle (which they did a pretty good job with slight alterations making it seem like 376 is the "thru-route" with a left exit & merge), was crapped together over the years as a single road.

It was seen fit to number the whole thing as such (and politicians touted benefits of having an Interstate designation where there was previously none), rather than the hodgepodge of routes the corridor previously was. 

Quotewhy is it called I-376? why not I-876 or something like that?

I imagine that since I-376 already existed, it was seen as more simple and less confusing to just "extend" what was already there, rather than switch numbers to something new.

It's a goofy corridor to be sure, and though it's signed East-West, I'm pretty sure it does more North-South between it's termini. But in the long-term, for the Average Joe, I'd have to imagine it is easier to deal with.

And let's not forget, the same problem exists around Augusta, GA, where I-520 meets its parent at both ends. At least it has an excuse for existing in two states (GA and SC).

PennDOT's Route 22/30/60 Interchange Reconstruction Earns Diamond Award Certificate for Engineering Excellence (http://www.dot.state.pa.us/penndot/districts/district11.nsf/37fc68a0aa7b94e9852570a70047899c/3ae316e829b4f68f852579b800593b62?OpenDocument)