YES!!! (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/42852700/ns/world_news-south_and_central_asia/)
Yeah, I'm watching the breaking news right now.
looks like Osama picked the wrong day to quit hiding.
It was just hitting the news websites around 10:00. I watched it go up - even Wikipedia beat them (had NYTimes/CNN as its source)
Watching the news about it right now. HOWEVER, they are now just repeating the same thing over and over again. They could have at least just gone back to local programing for a few minutes instead of repeating the same stuff again and again until Obama gives the 2 minute warning.
EDIT: Finally, the 2 minute warning...
Obama's should be coming out very shortly. But hell yeah!!
I'd say it's the best news in 10 years!!! Obama should declare a special holiday next weekend.
We've been waiting for this moment for so long. It's sweet, isn't it?
So what will be the implications for US security; particularly airport and TSA related security?
I doubt it changes a thing- if anything we need to be on high alert for a counter attack for a while.
That said-
YES!
Okay, come on, back to roads, no need to add to this topic.
Just kidding! Post away! We got the fucker!
Quote from: corco on May 02, 2011, 12:27:01 AM
I doubt it changes a thing- if anything we need to be on high alert for a counter attack for a while.
That said-
YES!
I would agree.
Whiskey For my men, beer for my horses.
My initial reaction. Excited, no.
Relieved - Hell yes!
And, kudos to all the military and political leaders who "took the long view" and didn't let Bin Laden fade away.
The crowds in Washington and New York are singing the wrong portion of the National Anthem. Today is a day for singing the third verse (although most of those people won't know the lyrics):
And where is that band who so vauntingly swore
That the havoc of war and the battle's confusion,
A home and a country, should leave us no more?
Their blood has washed out their foul footsteps' pollution.
No refuge could save the hireling and slave
From the terror of flight, or the gloom of the grave:
And the star-spangled banner in triumph doth wave,
O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave!
Quote from: 1995hoo on May 02, 2011, 09:27:44 AM
The crowds in Washington and New York are singing the wrong portion of the National Anthem. Today is a day for singing the third verse (although most of those people won't know the lyrics):
And where is that band who so vauntingly swore
That the havoc of war and the battle's confusion,
A home and a country, should leave us no more?
Their blood has washed out their foul footsteps' pollution.
No refuge could save the hireling and slave
From the terror of flight, or the gloom of the grave:
And the star-spangled banner in triumph doth wave,
O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave!
But not before they sing the second verse:
O thus be it ever when free men shall stand
Between their homeland and the war's desolation;
Blessed in victory and peace, may the heaven-rescued land
Praise the power that hath brought and preserved us a nation!
Then conquer we must, when our cause it is just
And this be our motto: "In God is our trust."
And the star-spangled banner in triumph shall wave
O'er the land of the free, and the home of the brave!
And BTW, hooray for the armed forces killing the terrorist SOB!
Quote from: Henry on May 02, 2011, 04:18:08 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on May 02, 2011, 09:27:44 AM
The crowds in Washington and New York are singing the wrong portion of the National Anthem. Today is a day for singing the third verse (although most of those people won't know the lyrics):
And where is that band who so vauntingly swore
That the havoc of war and the battle's confusion,
A home and a country, should leave us no more?
Their blood has washed out their foul footsteps' pollution.
No refuge could save the hireling and slave
From the terror of flight, or the gloom of the grave:
And the star-spangled banner in triumph doth wave,
O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave!
But not before they sing the second verse:
O thus be it ever when free men shall stand
Between their homeland and the war's desolation;
Blessed in victory and peace, may the heaven-rescued land
Praise the power that hath brought and preserved us a nation!
Then conquer we must, when our cause it is just
And this be our motto: "In God is our trust."
And the star-spangled banner in triumph shall wave
O'er the land of the free, and the home of the brave!
And BTW, hooray for the armed forces killing the terrorist SOB!
Actually, that's the fourth verse. Full lyrics are as follows:
O! say can you see by the dawn's early light,
What so proudly we hailed at the twilight's last gleaming,
Whose broad stripes and bright stars through the perilous fight,
O'er the ramparts we watched, were so gallantly streaming?
And the rockets' red glare, the bombs bursting in air,
Gave proof through the night that our flag was still there;
O! say does that star-spangled banner yet wave,
O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave?
On the shore dimly seen through the mists of the deep,
Where the foe's haughty host in dread silence reposes,
What is that which the breeze, o'er the towering steep,
As it fitfully blows, half conceals, half discloses?
Now it catches the gleam of the morning's first beam,
In full glory reflected now shines in the stream:
'Tis the star-spangled banner, O! long may it wave
O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave.
And where is that band who so vauntingly swore
That the havoc of war and the battle's confusion,
A home and a country, should leave us no more?
Their blood has washed out their foul footsteps' pollution.
No refuge could save the hireling and slave
From the terror of flight, or the gloom of the grave:
And the star-spangled banner in triumph doth wave,
O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave!
O! thus be it ever, when freemen shall stand
Between their loved home and the war's desolation.
Blest with vict'ry and peace, may the Heav'n rescued land
Praise the Power that hath made and preserved us a nation!
Then conquer we must, when our cause it is just,
And this be our motto: "In God is our trust;"
And the star-spangled banner in triumph shall wave
O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave!
today is not a day for singing any verse. we're in full "fuck yeah" mode over what is the execution of a criminal. this is a moment to acknowledge quietly that we've done a necessary evil. planet Earth certainly needed to be rid of the guy, but the whole idea of civilization is to rise above the lizard instinct to celebrate in a vengeful manner.
and besides, the problem isn't anywhere near over.
we've got one dead maniac, and who knows how many live ones. we can go full-on "fuck yeah" mode when religious extremism as a whole is exterminated.
oh and, yeah, unemployment is back to a normal level, bankers aren't dicking around with the Banach-Tarski paradox, and I can fly with standard toiletries.
Yup--this is real Hannibal-in-the-tunnels stuff. With AQAP repackaging jihad into a mass-market consumer good, Osama was becoming almost an irrelevance. The best we can hope for is that his death improves our long-term outlook and makes it easier for us to deal with the problems of imperial overstretch that have set in in the ten years we have been hunting him.
Quote from: Master son on May 01, 2011, 11:29:25 PM
looks like Osama picked the wrong day to quit hiding.
Nice reference to 'Airplane!'
It's good that we got him. I am glad we could avoid a trial. Can you imagine the circus it would be?
Mr. Agentsteel, with all due respect, we need a Fuck Yeah moment after the shit we've been through the last several years. Let us have our revelry for a day or two.
Quote from: AlpsROADS on May 02, 2011, 06:28:46 PM
Mr. Agentsteel, with all due respect, we need a Fuck Yeah moment after the shit we've been through the last several years. Let us have our revelry for a day or two.
most of that shit has been courtesy of Bear Stearns, Fannie Mae, and the like.
Nice to have a definitive moment of accomplishment amid an otherwise murky and messy conflict.
USA, USA, indeed.
Better savor this feeling of satisfaction because we aren't going to get another one like this from our current foreign entanglements.
Quote from: AlpsROADS on May 02, 2011, 06:28:46 PM
Mr. Agentsteel, with all due respect, we need a Fuck Yeah moment after the shit we've been through the last several years. Let us have our revelry for a day or two.
+1 I agree
I honestly am surprised to see the "fuck yeah!" spirit popping back up. I thought we had abandoned that attitude and forgotten about the whole war on terror thing several years ago. I know I certainly had...
Well, regardless, it is still a big symbolic victory, of the sort we need right about now... even if it isn't practically meaningful.
Quote from: Brandon on May 02, 2011, 05:54:28 PM
It's good that we got him. I am glad we could avoid a trial. Can you imagine the circus it would be?
IMO, I don't think that would have been a problem. Worst case, he would have been "shot while trying to escape." ;-)
Quote from: Duke87 on May 02, 2011, 09:02:36 PM
I honestly am surprised to see the "fuck yeah!" spirit popping back up. I thought we had abandoned that attitude and forgotten about the whole war on terror thing several years ago. I know I certainly had...
So did Bush in 2002.
Quote from: mightyace on May 02, 2011, 09:08:36 PM
IMO, I don't think that would have been a problem. Worst case, he would have been "shot while trying to escape." ;-)
I much prefer it this way. I'd rather our leaders overtly announce their decision, as opposed to hiding behind fictions of legalese and convenience. "it was a mission to kill" is significantly more honest than "he was shot trying to escape" - certainly much more honest than the politics we've grown used to.
I cannot 100% endorse the decision to assassinate (though I do endorse it 99% simply because the evidence was clearly in hand, so a fair and impartial trial would've likely resulted in a sentence of death anyway), but again I am pleased to note that it wasn't covered in a thin veneer of government-issue bullshit.
Quote from: 1995hoo on May 02, 2011, 04:27:14 PM
Actually, that's the fourth verse. Full lyrics are as follows:
O! say can you see by the dawn's early light,
What so proudly we hailed at the twilight's last gleaming,
Whose broad stripes and bright stars through the perilous fight,
O'er the ramparts we watched, were so gallantly streaming?
And the rockets' red glare, the bombs bursting in air,
Gave proof through the night that our flag was still there;
O! say does that star-spangled banner yet wave,
O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave?
On the shore dimly seen through the mists of the deep,
Where the foe's haughty host in dread silence reposes,
What is that which the breeze, o'er the towering steep,
As it fitfully blows, half conceals, half discloses?
Now it catches the gleam of the morning's first beam,
In full glory reflected now shines in the stream:
'Tis the star-spangled banner, O! long may it wave
O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave.
And where is that band who so vauntingly swore
That the havoc of war and the battle's confusion,
A home and a country, should leave us no more?
Their blood has washed out their foul footsteps' pollution.
No refuge could save the hireling and slave
From the terror of flight, or the gloom of the grave:
And the star-spangled banner in triumph doth wave,
O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave!
O! thus be it ever, when freemen shall stand
Between their loved home and the war's desolation.
Blest with vict'ry and peace, may the Heav'n rescued land
Praise the Power that hath made and preserved us a nation!
Then conquer we must, when our cause it is just,
And this be our motto: "In God is our trust;"
And the star-spangled banner in triumph shall wave
O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave!
Well, thanks for clearing that up!
Add one more "F*** yeah!!!" to the celebration. :clap:
Eagerly awaiting the photos and video of how our Navy SEALs 86ed the scum.
Quote from: mjb2002 on May 03, 2011, 12:07:03 PM
Eagerly awaiting the photos and video of how our Navy SEALs 86ed the scum.
give 'em a few more days. Pixar can only work their magic so fast...
Quote from: agentsteel53 on May 03, 2011, 02:51:05 AM
I much prefer it this way. I'd rather our leaders overtly announce their decision, as opposed to hiding behind fictions of legalese and convenience. "it was a mission to kill" is significantly more honest than "he was shot trying to escape" - certainly much more honest than the politics we've grown used to.
And of course, either one would have been significantly more honest than anything we ever got out of the liar who left office in Jan 2009.
If you missed Jon Stewart's hilarious take on this (http://xfinitytv.comcast.net/tv/The-Daily-Show-With-Jon-Stewart/89142/1906576155/The-Daily-Show-5-2-2011/videos?skipTo=66&cmpid=FCST_xfinitytv), then check it out.
Quote from: agentsteel53 on May 03, 2011, 02:51:05 AM
I cannot 100% endorse the decision to assassinate (though I do endorse it 99% simply because the evidence was clearly in hand, so a fair and impartial trial would've likely resulted in a sentence of death anyway), but again I am pleased to note that it wasn't covered in a thin veneer of government-issue bullshit.
An irrelevant argument. His bodyguards would not have let us take him alive. We've known for years that they had orders to shoot him if they got cornered. Indeed, that may very well have been exactly what happened.
Reporter FAIL:
[youtube=425,350]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mMP7Ys57ha4[/youtube]
Quote from: berberry on May 03, 2011, 05:44:50 PM
If you missed Jon Stewart's hilarious take on this (http://xfinitytv.comcast.net/tv/The-Daily-Show-With-Jon-Stewart/89142/1906576155/The-Daily-Show-5-2-2011/videos?skipTo=66&cmpid=FCST_xfinitytv), then check it out.
"Video not available"
Quote from: berberry on May 03, 2011, 05:31:35 PM
Quote from: agentsteel53 on May 03, 2011, 02:51:05 AM
I much prefer it this way. I'd rather our leaders overtly announce their decision, as opposed to hiding behind fictions of legalese and convenience. "it was a mission to kill" is significantly more honest than "he was shot trying to escape" - certainly much more honest than the politics we've grown used to.
And of course, either one would have been significantly more honest than anything we ever got out of the liar who left entered office in Jan 2009.
FIFY.
Quote from: Brandon on May 04, 2011, 01:13:18 PM
Quote from: berberry on May 03, 2011, 05:31:35 PM
Quote from: agentsteel53 on May 03, 2011, 02:51:05 AM
I much prefer it this way. I'd rather our leaders overtly announce their decision, as opposed to hiding behind fictions of legalese and convenience. "it was a mission to kill" is significantly more honest than "he was shot trying to escape" - certainly much more honest than the politics we've grown used to.
And of course, either one would have been significantly more honest than anything we ever got out of the liar who left entered office in Jan 2009.
FIFY.
If the first word stands for "fucked", then yeah, you did!
Post Merge: May 04, 2011, 02:36:55 PM
Quote from: US71 on May 04, 2011, 11:35:45 AM
Quote from: berberry on May 03, 2011, 05:44:50 PM
If you missed Jon Stewart's hilarious take on this (http://xfinitytv.comcast.net/tv/The-Daily-Show-With-Jon-Stewart/89142/1906576155/The-Daily-Show-5-2-2011/videos?skipTo=66&cmpid=FCST_xfinitytv), then check it out.
"Video not available"
Dunno what to say about this one. I checked it just now and it works for me. Sorry, I really wish you could see it.
Quote from: berberry on May 04, 2011, 01:41:39 PM
Quote from: Brandon on May 04, 2011, 01:13:18 PM
Quote from: berberry on May 03, 2011, 05:31:35 PM
And of course, either one would have been significantly more honest than anything we ever got out of the liar who left entered office in Jan 2009.
FIFY.
If the first word stands for "fucked", then yeah, you did!
Prepare the gladiators for combat.
guys, guys, guys, break it up. let's just agree that all elected officials are lying scumbags!
Quote from: agentsteel53 on May 04, 2011, 04:06:04 PM
guys, guys, guys Children, break it up. let's just agree that all elected officials are lying scumbags!
FIFY
Quote from: berberry on May 04, 2011, 01:41:39 PM
If the first word stands for "fucked",
Quote from: agentsteel53 on May 04, 2011, 10:39:20 PM
Quote from: AlpsROADS on May 04, 2011, 10:27:32 PM
Quote from: agentsteel53 on May 04, 2011, 04:06:04 PM
I think Alps should fuck this goat for me.
FIFY
thanks!
Sorry, it was too good to pass up :-D
Quote from: agentsteel53 on May 04, 2011, 04:06:04 PM
guys, guys, guys, break it up. let's just agree that all elected officials are lying scumbags!
Not sure exactly how this president is lying about this matter, but I'm pretty sure he's lied about other things so I'm inclined to agree with you. The only constant in life is the speed of light, which means there
must be an exception to your rule somewhere, though.
FWIW, I'm pretty sure we haven't had such an exception in the White House in many decades if not centuries.
Quote from: berberry on May 05, 2011, 11:26:07 AM
FWIW, I'm pretty sure we haven't had such an exception in the White House in many decades if not centuries.
maybe Washington... maybe.
Washington definitely. Chester Arthur definitely. Everybody else sucked.
what about Polk? now that I think about it, he outlined an agenda for his four years, got it all accomplished, did not run for re-election, and died six months later.
* Polk engaged in aggressive war of the kind subsequently outlawed by the Kellogg-Briand pact.
* What about Honest Abe?
Quote from: J N Winkler on May 05, 2011, 03:09:24 PM
* Polk engaged in aggressive war of the kind subsequently outlawed by the Kellogg-Briand pact.
* What about Honest Abe?
if you're going to bring that up about Polk ... Honest Abe put the entire state of Maryland under martial law! It technically may have been constitutional ("state of emergency" and other horseshit), but it's actually far worse than anything the TSA, the Border Patrol, etc are doing today.
Martial law is just what you have to do when the civil authorities are bent on violating the human rights of a sizable segment of the population. Are our reasons for getting involved in Libya in 2011 so very different from our reasons for getting involved in the Southern states in 1866?
Quote from: J N Winkler on May 05, 2011, 03:22:36 PM
Martial law is just what you have to do when the civil authorities are bent on violating the human rights of a sizable segment of the population. Are our reasons for getting involved in Libya in 2011 so very different from our reasons for getting involved in the Southern states in 1866?
maybe so, but I still do not agree with the suspension of habeas corpus.
It is important to look at the downstream consequences. The state of emergency did eventually come to an end, as did the suspension of habeas corpus. Was anyone thereafter subject to indefinite detention as a result of that suspension?
Quote from: J N Winkler on May 05, 2011, 03:41:36 PM
It is important to look at the downstream consequences. The state of emergency did eventually come to an end, as did the suspension of habeas corpus. Was anyone thereafter subject to indefinite detention as a result of that suspension?
shades of the whole "enemy combatant" thing - the US really likes to do that, whether it is Maryland, Japanese internment, or Guantanamo.
under what subsection of the generally-agreed-upon laws of war is it legal to hold your own citizens without trial, regardless of whether or not, eventually, the ends justified the means?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Habeas_corpus_in_the_United_States#Suspension_during_the_Civil_War
What happened to the Japanese during World War II was far worse than what happened during the Civil War because they were not just interned without trial--they were subject to an area exclusion order (not very different from what the Germans and Russians were doing at the same time with internal deportations) and were required to sell up before they reported to internment camps.
With the exception of Yasser Hamdi, who had US citizenship at the time but subsequently renounced it by agreement, no US citizen has ever been held in Guantánamo.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_detainees_at_Guantanamo_Bay
I agree it was wrong to hold Padilla without charge for years, first as a material witness and then as an enemy combatant. But I'm not sure how we go about chucking out Ex parte Quirin in the present climate.
Frankly, I worry more about prosecutorial immunity and the lack of an enforceable right to exoneration than I do about martial law per se. US citizens who become enemy combatants and get caught in the toils of this particular area of the law are still a very microscopic proportion of the overall US population. In contradistinction, the army of people who have been falsely convicted of crimes as a result of faulty evidence or prosecutorial misconduct is large. We also retain the right to trial by jury for historical reasons, as a check against arbitrary exercise of authority, but we have no meaningful safeguards against juries who convict speculatively.
FWIW: I doubt the 9th President, William Henry Harrison, lied... or lied much.
But then, he was only in office a month :ded:
Quote from: US71 on May 05, 2011, 05:16:15 PM
FWIW: I doubt the 9th President, William Henry Harrison, lied... or lied much.
But then, he was only in office a month :ded:
He lied to get to the presidency (Tippecanoe was a hollow victory over 20 indians). Then lied about the weather on the day of his inaguration (it's not cold), which led to his pneumonia.
Okay, back on topic, soft of.
Now that Bin Laden has assumed room temperature, what next?
Quote from: mightyace on May 06, 2011, 03:26:33 AM
Now that Bin Laden has assumed room temperature, what next?
I reckon he's assumed the temperature of the sea water he's sunk in.