Stemming from a recent discussion in the Clearview thread about exit gore signs, I got to drawing exit gore signs based on California spec and FHWA spec. California's gore signs (G84-2 and G84-3) are significantly narrower than those used in other states and I suspect the reason has to do with "lateral offsets". The G84-2 sign is basically the pre-exit numbering gore point sign (G84) with the arrow moved to one side to accommodate the 1 or 2 digit exit number. The G84-3 sign for 3 and 4 digit exit numbers is narrower than the G84-2 sign and the exit number and arrow are stacked one on top of the other. I suspect that because the new gore point signs were supposed to use the existing wood post, the lateral offset issue became a major factor when Caltrans designed their new exit number gore point signs. Here are the signs I drew and these are proportionally correct...
California -- G84-2 & G84-3...
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.markyville.com%2Faaroads%2FG84-2.png&hash=84f88566381a47ec24c9318338d652e6ab50aea8) (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.markyville.com%2Faaroads%2FG84-3.png&hash=08a48d3b82829ba1c83b5db7e7da6545cea68ecf)
FHWA -- E5-1A (1-2 Digit, 3-Digit & 4-Digit)...
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.markyville.com%2Faaroads%2FE5-1A_2n.png&hash=df6359ce391b65b52f67fc70692ea51548dce902) (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.markyville.com%2Faaroads%2FE5-1A_3n.png&hash=a2aadc5d506de3739621b11793a94b781e6801ea)
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.markyville.com%2Faaroads%2FE5-1A_4n.png&hash=71eca097a701197487350621c135727fa6444397)
On my last visit to Las Vegas, I decided to use CA-99 to CA-152 to return to San Jose instead of cutting over to I-5. While driving through Fresno I spotted an FHWA-style 3-digit exit gore sign for Exit 133/CA-180 East. I also spotted a similar sign at Exit 166/CA-152 West north of Madera. I thought these were sign goofs by an out of state contractor until I came across project plans for CA-41 to rehab the gore points and add maintenance vehicle pullouts (project 06-0E3104). The signing plans for this project includes the installation of new FHWA-style gore point signs. As part of the reconstruction of the gore points, the gore signs have been moved back to provide the correct lateral offset. What's odd is the sign code for the new gore point sign is still G84-2(CA) even though 3 and 4 digit exit numbers are supposed to use the G84-3(CA) sign.
Whether this means Caltrans is going to adopt the FHWA gore signs remains to be seen. I've been scouring the currently advertised projects on the Caltrans' website and have yet to see the FHWA-style gore signs show up on any other project. It's entirely possible District 6 is testing the FHWA-style gore signs to help Caltrans make a decision to use them statewide.
Although I don't have any examples drawn up, here are MnDOT's specs for gore signs with a single-digit exit number (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/trafficeng/publ/mnstdsigns/E%20Series/E5-1B-1.pdf) (E5-1B, 72" x 60"), having 2 or more digits (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/trafficeng/publ/mnstdsigns/E%20Series/E5-1B-2.pdf) in the exit number (also E5-1B, variable width and 84" height), and gore signs without an exit number (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/trafficeng/publ/mnstdsigns/E%20Series/E5-1.pdf) (E5-1, also 72" x 60").
Within the last five or six years, Utah has deviated from the FHWA specifications by making the numerals of the exit number in series D. I wonder where they see the wisdom in that change...
Quote from: froggie on July 04, 2011, 08:41:48 AM
Although I don't have any examples drawn up, here are MnDOT's specs for gore signs with a single-digit exit number (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/trafficeng/publ/mnstdsigns/E%20Series/E5-1B-1.pdf) (E5-1B, 72" x 60"), having 2 or more digits (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/trafficeng/publ/mnstdsigns/E%20Series/E5-1B-2.pdf) in the exit number (also E5-1B, variable width and 84" height), and gore signs without an exit number (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/trafficeng/publ/mnstdsigns/E%20Series/E5-1.pdf) (E5-1, also 72" x 60").
Froggie, I'm curious if you have any idea why Minnesota decided to go with the "stacked" exit gore signs versus the FHWA standard? I'm pretty sure California did it due to the lateral offset issue.
Also, I found a large table within the 2009 MUTCD that specifies sizes for gore point signs (there are 8 of them!). Since there are no drawings of these signs, I'm going to start with the ones I drew (based on specs I found at the Oregon DOT).
Quote from: CL on July 04, 2011, 09:15:17 AM
Within the last five or six years, Utah has deviated from the FHWA specifications by making the numerals of the exit number in series D. I wonder where they see the wisdom in that change...
Was there an accompanying reduction in sign width? Series D numerals on gore signs that large would look kind of strange wouldn't it?
I thought I saw stacked versions in the MUTCD, too. Ohio seems to favor the stacked style lately, particularly where there isn't much lateral space (like at the start of a barrier-separated deceleration lane) but sometimes when there's just no good reason for it. I personally prefer the FHWA E51A non-stacked type, aesthetically.
West Virginia have used this type of exit gore for triple digit numbers. Not sure if Ohio has this type, however.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg695.imageshack.us%2Fimg695%2F2707%2Fi77exit185wvexitgore.png&hash=a10032525f4741b2a0ec4ee8dd6f5936e7a796dd)
Actual sign:
http://maps.google.com/?ll=39.391508,-81.439633&spn=0.004129,0.006899&z=17&layer=c&cbll=39.391133,-81.439683&panoid=yQgoUBKs7W-BRWt7AcBNUA&cbp=12,175.36,,0,0.98 (http://maps.google.com/?ll=39.391508,-81.439633&spn=0.004129,0.006899&z=17&layer=c&cbll=39.391133,-81.439683&panoid=yQgoUBKs7W-BRWt7AcBNUA&cbp=12,175.36,,0,0.98)
^ Missouri used to use that style, but the arrow was more centered. Now Missouri mostly uses the stacked design, but will occasionally use the more standard FHWA design.
Iowa also used to use a design similar to that above, but the number tab did not go for the whole width of the sign:
http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ll=41.049253,-95.820229&spn=0.013723,0.033023&z=16&layer=c&cbll=41.049253,-95.820229&panoid=rKwFu1Dowdp3wtzIdCXdFw&cbp=12,200.45,,0,3.68 (http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ll=41.049253,-95.820229&spn=0.013723,0.033023&z=16&layer=c&cbll=41.049253,-95.820229&panoid=rKwFu1Dowdp3wtzIdCXdFw&cbp=12,200.45,,0,3.68)
Nebraska uses the above design, but switches the placement of 'EXIT' and the number:
http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ll=40.894497,-96.557057&spn=0.006837,0.016512&z=17&layer=c&cbll=40.894638,-96.55664&panoid=ctsJ6do59byWpFTaUmZIWA&cbp=12,256.44,,0,-0.53 (http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ll=40.894497,-96.557057&spn=0.006837,0.016512&z=17&layer=c&cbll=40.894638,-96.55664&panoid=ctsJ6do59byWpFTaUmZIWA&cbp=12,256.44,,0,-0.53)
Quote from: myosh_tino on July 04, 2011, 01:38:06 PM
Quote from: CL on July 04, 2011, 09:15:17 AM
Within the last five or six years, Utah has deviated from the FHWA specifications by making the numerals of the exit number in series D. I wonder where they see the wisdom in that change...
Was there an accompanying reduction in sign width? Series D numerals on gore signs that large would look kind of strange wouldn't it?
Here's one of those Utah Series D signs, EB I-80 Castle Rock exit 185.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fmembers.trainorders.com%2Fandroid%2Fmisc%2FExit185-Gore-SerD.jpg&hash=b23326e3ce2aa1083241bae80572752c1bf68f85)
And speaking of EXIT 185, and of narrow typeface lettering, here's another one, CA this time:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fmembers.trainorders.com%2Fandroid%2Fmisc%2FEXIT185C.jpg&hash=6dfed014945848dc802724d57e583808a8576c5c)
As mentioned before, a fair number of Gore sign photos were posted in that Clearview thread, those were mine. Here in Wyoming there has always been a lack of consistancly on their signs, so we have Clearview, Series E, Series D. Plus the state has gone to a compact style of sign over the last 10 years. Even now, several years after Clearview first started showing up on interstate signs, you still see FHWA lettering used from time to time. some samples of signs put up in 2008 and 2009:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fmembers.trainorders.com%2Fandroid%2Fmisc%2F2008GoreSigns.jpg&hash=572c456b0de60c438bd5f02f9608ff1c1c9bd356)
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fmembers.trainorders.com%2Fandroid%2Fmisc%2F2009GoreSigns.jpg&hash=6b1e895e135ce3513755a16fa2091ee0fd97ed1d)
Quote from: Android on July 04, 2011, 09:39:28 PM
And speaking of EXIT 185, and of narrow typeface lettering, here's another one, CA this time:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fmembers.trainorders.com%2Fandroid%2Fmisc%2FEXIT185C.jpg&hash=6dfed014945848dc802724d57e583808a8576c5c)
Those are Series C numerals and is actually the standard typeface for the 3-4 digit exit gore sign according to the spec sheet for the G84-3 sign. However, there are numerous 3-digit exit gore signs that use Series D numerals. I prefer the Series D numerals for legibility reasons.
Quote from: Android on July 04, 2011, 09:39:28 PM
Here's one of those Utah Series D signs, EB I-80 Castle Rock exit 185.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fmembers.trainorders.com%2Fandroid%2Fmisc%2FExit185-Gore-SerD.jpg&hash=b23326e3ce2aa1083241bae80572752c1bf68f85)
That sign's actually a bit substandard as far as our exit gore signage goes, but that's the crux of what's going on. Driving around today I tried to pay attention to the width of the exit signs, and I think you (myosh tino) are right in regards to sign width. Looks like they're using the two-digit sign width for three-digit exit numbers, which are in series D. Strange, but that's UDOT for you.
I think Nevada was actually using the FHWA 3-digit spec for 1- & 2-digit exits for some time. Recent replacements in the Reno area have been narrower than others, but still using the FHWA design. I hadn't realized this until noticing some of the newer signs recently.
QuoteFroggie, I'm curious if you have any idea why Minnesota decided to go with the "stacked" exit gore signs versus the FHWA standard?
Not sure. I've never asked, and MnDOT's gone with their version of the stacked gore sign since at least 1975.
Found this bizarre example while on I-380 in Iowa yesterday.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi837.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fzz298%2Fmidamcrossrds%2F100_1336.jpg&hash=2bcf01efe18917720c0c93ff3f352668ee5a7756)
An exit tab for an exit gore sign. :spin:
IDOT used to make some different exit gore signs then the standard. I was hoping i could find an example. Brandon, do you have an of the pics of the "old" exit gores on I-55 or I-80 in Joliet? I know on I-55 at US 52, IL 59, and US 6 exits had the ones i am talking about. Most exits in IL had them. Unfortunately, when IDOT finally widened I-55 to I-80, those signs where changed to the standard bigger ones. I am going to see if i can still find one though.
Added on Thut 7/7:
Today when i was out working, I did see one of the "types" i was talking about earlier on I-55 SB at US 12-20-45 La Grange Rd (Exit 279A-B).
BTW, I did find a link that does have the sign i was looking for.
http://www.highwayexplorer.com/il_EndsPage.php?id=3080§ion=1
Look under I-80 East Bound Exit 133 Richards St in Joliet. It's tough to see, but you will see the number is very different from the typical gore sign.
WSDOT (Washington) seems to use both the FHWA and stacked styles semi-randomly. (There's some correlation towards using the narrower sign for a narrower space, but it doesn't seem to be the rule 100% of the time.) The difference between WSDOT and the California examples posted though, is that WSDOT uses Series E and the long arrow on both styles.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.denexa.com%2Froadgeek%2Froad-photos%2Fmain.php%3Fcmd%3Dimage%26amp%3Bvar1%3Dok%252Fcomanche%252Fimg_4513.jpg%26amp%3Bvar2%3D1000_85&hash=4211cecad5d2fcd65122b94278df4bb9e49fc5c7)
Here's an...uhm...creative approach for a gore sign from Lawton, OK...
Ohio does have the CA-style signs on I-77 in Ohio in Gurnset County, but the use the FHWA series E font, except exit numbers 44 and
46, which they use the Blue highway Series D font.
Quote from: Scott5114 on July 06, 2011, 06:30:58 PM
Here's an...uhm...creative approach for a gore sign from Lawton, OK...
Well, the arrow
does point in the direction the ramp goes!
Looks like something Maryland would do. I know they use different arrows for different types of ramps, like particularly sharp ones get a horizontal arrow.
How about a blast from the past? Does anyone remember the original gore signs on New Jersey's Garden State Parkway back in the 1960's? They used a short arrow in a circle that extended out at the top right corner of the rectangular sign. I don't think there are any of those left, regrettably.
Or how about New York Thruway's original blue gore signs from the 1950's? They used a long arrow positioned horizontally under the legend. Deanej?
Quote from: The Premier on July 04, 2011, 08:29:05 PM
West Virginia have used this type of exit gore for triple digit numbers. Not sure if Ohio has this type, however.
Actual sign:
http://maps.google.com/?ll=39.391508,-81.439633&spn=0.004129,0.006899&z=17&layer=c&cbll=39.391133,-81.439683&panoid=yQgoUBKs7W-BRWt7AcBNUA&cbp=12,175.36,,0,0.98 (http://maps.google.com/?ll=39.391508,-81.439633&spn=0.004129,0.006899&z=17&layer=c&cbll=39.391133,-81.439683&panoid=yQgoUBKs7W-BRWt7AcBNUA&cbp=12,175.36,,0,0.98)
I saw one like this on FL 408 going westbound near I-4. Definitely not the standard of Florida to post gore signs like this, especially on the toll freeways.
Quote from: SignBridge on July 09, 2011, 08:39:10 PM
How about a blast from the past? Does anyone remember the original gore signs on New Jersey's Garden State Parkway back in the 1960's? They used a short arrow in a circle that extended out at the top right corner of the rectangular sign. I don't think there are any of those left, regrettably.
Or how about New York Thruway's original blue gore signs from the 1950's? They used a long arrow positioned horizontally under the legend. Deanej?
I'm afraid the 50s is well before my time. By about 40 years.
From what I've seen, the Maryland Transportation Authority uses the "stacked" style gore sign (the G84-3 one).
Sorry Dean, I only noticed your logo, not your age. (Chuckle!) But I thought if you're into NY Thruway stuff, you might have found old photos, etc. I'm quite a student of the original T'way myself. Point of trivia: Our nationally standardized BGS system is an outgrowth of the original Thruway sign system from the 1950's combined with features from California's standard system of the same era.
Quote from: deathtopumpkins on July 07, 2011, 12:17:29 PM
Looks like something Maryland would do. I know they use different arrows for different types of ramps, like particularly sharp ones get a horizontal arrow.
That should be done everywhere, IMO. Actually, I thought the MUTCD said something to this effect, at least regarding exit direction signs.
Quote from: vtk on July 10, 2011, 11:43:41 PM
Quote from: deathtopumpkins on July 07, 2011, 12:17:29 PM
Looks like something Maryland would do. I know they use different arrows for different types of ramps, like particularly sharp ones get a horizontal arrow.
That should be done everywhere, IMO. Actually, I thought the MUTCD said something to this effect, at least regarding exit direction signs.
Maybe it does - I don't know off the top of my head. Maryland's just the only place I've seen it done with any regularity.
You're right ..........The 2009 MUTCD Sec. 2E.37-03 states that the gore sign arrow should be aligned to approximate the angle of departure. I think that should also apply to the arrow on the preceding exit direction sign, but it doesn't. Sec. 2E.36-07-A requires only a diagonally upward-pointing directional arrow. Oh well.............
I'm thinking of OH 15 in Findlay, eastbound, just beyond the split from I-75. There's a really tight exit for a road whose name I forget, but it's old US 25 -- so tight, it's basically like a right-in-right-out driveway. Either the exit direction sign or the gore sign has a horizontal arrow, IIRC. I can't remember seeing anything but "standard" arrow angles anywhere else for exit direction or exit gore signs.
Quote from: myosh_tino on July 04, 2011, 02:16:23 AM
Stemming from a recent discussion in the Clearview thread about exit gore signs, I got to drawing exit gore signs based on California spec and FHWA spec. California's gore signs (G84-2 and G84-3) are significantly narrower than those used in other states and I suspect the reason has to do with "lateral offsets". The G84-2 sign is basically the pre-exit numbering gore point sign (G84) with the arrow moved to one side to accommodate the 1 or 2 digit exit number. The G84-3 sign for 3 and 4 digit exit numbers is narrower than the G84-2 sign and the exit number and arrow are stacked one on top of the other. I suspect that because the new gore point signs were supposed to use the existing wood post, the lateral offset issue became a major factor when Caltrans designed their new exit number gore point signs. Here are the signs I drew and these are proportionally correct...
On my last visit to Las Vegas, I decided to use CA-99 to CA-152 to return to San Jose instead of cutting over to I-5. While driving through Fresno I spotted an FHWA-style 3-digit exit gore sign for Exit 133/CA-180 East. I also spotted a similar sign at Exit 166/CA-152 West north of Madera. I thought these were sign goofs by an out of state contractor until I came across project plans for CA-41 to rehab the gore points and add maintenance vehicle pullouts (project 06-0E3104). The signing plans for this project includes the installation of new FHWA-style gore point signs. As part of the reconstruction of the gore points, the gore signs have been moved back to provide the correct lateral offset. What's odd is the sign code for the new gore point sign is still G84-2(CA) even though 3 and 4 digit exit numbers are supposed to use the G84-3(CA) sign.
Whether this means Caltrans is going to adopt the FHWA gore signs remains to be seen. I've been scouring the currently advertised projects on the Caltrans' website and have yet to see the FHWA-style gore signs show up on any other project. It's entirely possible District 6 is testing the FHWA-style gore signs to help Caltrans make a decision to use them statewide.
Hello. Caltrans District 6, as a pilot project, is using the federal exit gore sign to improve the safety for maintenance workers. As the sign is larger than the California standard exit gore sign on a single post, it is placed about 250 feet downstream of the gore point, where it is less likely to be struck by a vehicle cutting across the gore point. At least one other district will also be trying the larger two-post gore signs.
I've recently noticed that ODOT's recently-installed gore signs in District 6 are all the narrower style, but what I think is strange is the mounting. The posts they're mounted on are forked like old-fashioned football goalposts, with the horizontal member clearly visible a few inches below the bottom edge of the sign. It just seems to me that the installation would be a lot more elegant if the horizontal member were high enough to be behind the sign.
Jonah, 250 ft. downstream? Did you maybe mean 25 feet?
Actually, 250 feet. The installation of the standard California single-post exit gore sign is at the 23 foot point between the mainline and the off-ramp. That's where the asphalt paving ends. Now there is typically another 150 feet of stamped concrete, and the two-post gore sign is placed 100 feet beyond that. I would be interested in knowing what the convention is in other states as to where to place the exit gore sign. I've seen pictures of their installations, but no plans or guidance that shows where they go.
It's not that your placement is strange, it's that your ramp geometry is strange. Other states don't have their exit ramps continue nearly parallel to the freeway for 1/4 mile.
Actually, 250 feet is a hair under 1/20 of a mile (1 mile = 5280 feet), and is fairly small compared to the typical maximum legibility distance of a freeway guide sign (16" uppercase, 12" lowercase) under favorable conditions--usually around 800 feet or so.
Quote from: deanej on October 02, 2011, 12:55:31 PM
It's not that your placement is strange, it's that your ramp geometry is strange. Other states don't have their exit ramps continue nearly parallel to the freeway for 1/4 mile.
Jonah is right. Here is a clipping I extracted from Caltrans project 06-0e3104 which shows the placement of the new FHWA exit gore signs in the gore points...
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fmarkyville.com%2Faaroads%2Fca-gore-sign-plan.png&hash=c6f714861dade0601e7c84e61a0c52477ec062a5)
According to the diagram above, the California-standard gore point signs are placed 270 ft from where the white lines diverge. The new FHWA-standard signs are to be placed 520 ft from where the white lines diverge, 250 ft behind the existing sign.
Is NY just doing it wrong then? We place our gore signs right after the pavement ends no matter what the distance is from the white lines diverging. In CA it just happens that the ramp has yet to diverge from the main road at this point which is VERY unusual.
Quote from: deanej on October 03, 2011, 12:43:51 PM
Is NY just doing it wrong then? We place our gore signs right after the pavement ends no matter what the distance is from the white lines diverging. In CA it just happens that the ramp has yet to diverge from the main road at this point which is VERY unusual.
I know that Caltrans has very strict rules/guidelines regarding lateral offsets and sign placements. I am not sure if the national MUTCD addresses lateral offsets when placing signs like the exit gore sign but if the MUTCD does not address this issue and New York does not address it in its supplement (or state MUTCD), then New York is not "doing it wrong".
No! I quite like Caltrans style in exit gore signage. It seems much more uniform. I always thought the FHWA standard was obnoxious, even though it may be more legible due to larger numerals.
Edited for improper markup.
Quote from: myosh_tino on October 03, 2011, 03:34:59 PMI know that Caltrans has very strict rules/guidelines regarding lateral offsets and sign placements. I am not sure if the national MUTCD addresses lateral offsets when placing signs like the exit gore sign but if the MUTCD does not address this issue and New York does not address it in its supplement (or state MUTCD), then New York is not "doing it wrong".
The
MUTCD addresses lateral sign placement (in Chapter 2A, if memory serves), but it is hardly the sole authority on this point--there are AASHTO guidelines which require, among other things, that a sign must be protected by guardrail or installed on frangible supports if it is within the clear zone (which, for freeways, is 30' out from the edge of the traveled way). Since gore signs are typically installed within the clear zone, this is why they nearly always have breakaway supports.
I wonder if part of the motivation for Caltrans' experiment with vanilla
MUTCD gore signs is to afford maintenance crews a better standard of protection from traffic without having to close the ramp.
In Columbus, EB I-270's new Exit 26 geometry features an excessively long diverge taper, after which the ramp unnecessarily and without a smooth curve becomes parallel with the mainline again, before finally curving away from the freeway. (Where the exit splits into north and south forks, it does the same thing again. It's a distinct lack of elegance, in my opinion.) There was originally a narrow-style exit gore sign placed ridiculously far back from the theoretical gore, much like the California situations described upthread. I found that, while legible from a distance, the sign didn't convey sufficient guidance because it was seemingly nowhere near the exit to which it belonged. Anyway, it has recently been replaced by a traditional (2-post) style gore sign much closer to the theoretical gore, which means it now stands in the middle of a lot of pavement.
On an unrelated but still on-topic note, I recently observed a bridge-mounted exit gore sign hanging over I-71 NB in metro Cincinnati.
Quote from: vtk on October 05, 2011, 01:43:19 AM
On an unrelated but still on-topic note, I recently observed a bridge-mounted exit gore sign hanging over I-71 NB in metro Cincinnati.
I saw that one a few months ago, but I didn't manage to get a photo.
I can't help but think it totally defeats the purpose of having a gore sign.
Quote from: Central Avenue on October 05, 2011, 02:30:50 AM
Quote from: vtk on October 05, 2011, 01:43:19 AM
On an unrelated but still on-topic note, I recently observed a bridge-mounted exit gore sign hanging over I-71 NB in metro Cincinnati.
I saw that one a few months ago, but I didn't manage to get a photo.
I can't help but think it totally defeats the purpose of having a gore sign.
Maybe if they hung it much lower, and hinged so it would swing back into place after being struck by errant vehicles...
Found a very large exit gore sign on US 15/105 just south of I-85 in Durham, NC.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.formulanone.org%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2011%2F11%2FBigExitGoreSign.jpg&hash=4a18ab4f9b16dc6618a8419d6f57b3d7a04c273f)
(Map Link) (http://maps.google.com/?ll=36.017067,-78.948398&spn=0.020515,0.038581&t=h&z=15&vpsrc=6)
Hell, that's not a gore, it's more like a median! :-P
Quote from: formulanone on November 16, 2011, 01:49:00 PM
Found a very large exit gore sign on US 15/105 just south of I-85 in Durham, NC.
North Carolina: where the exit gore signs are larger than the actual BGS's!
Garden State Parkway in NJ will have something similar for Exits 88 C-B-A. Current theory is to put the arrow next to the 88 to try to reduce the width. (My earliest mockup had "88C-" "B-A /")
Quote from: PennDOTFan on November 16, 2011, 11:55:47 PM
Quote from: formulanone on November 16, 2011, 01:49:00 PM
Found a very large exit gore sign on US 15/105 just south of I-85 in Durham, NC.
North Carolina: where the exit gore signs are larger than the actual BGS's!
Yeah, but the numbers on the newer gore signs look like Florida's...
http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.139259772790158.27133.100001184090862&type=1&l=e04e9633fc
(can't find the link directly to the photo)
Look at the first 540 picture. That says it all.
Quote from: OracleUsr on November 18, 2011, 12:47:12 PM
Look at the first 540 picture. That says it all.
I remember seeing that one on the drive back to RDU on I-40...figured that has to be one of the tallest BGS I've ever seen.
The northbound advance guide signage for I-395 on I-95 in Bangor, ME, gives that sign some serious competition, though
Quote from: formulanone on November 18, 2011, 11:08:00 PM
Quote from: OracleUsr on November 18, 2011, 12:47:12 PM
Look at the first 540 picture. That says it all.
I remember seeing that one on the drive back to RDU on I-40...figured that has to be one of the tallest BGS I've ever seen.
And I always thought that this BGS on I-90 in Buffalo was overkill:
http://g.co/maps/hv8x7
Quote from: deanej on July 10, 2011, 01:14:09 PM
Quote from: SignBridge on July 09, 2011, 08:39:10 PM
How about a blast from the past? Does anyone remember the original gore signs on New Jersey's Garden State Parkway back in the 1960's? They used a short arrow in a circle that extended out at the top right corner of the rectangular sign. I don't think there are any of those left, regrettably.
Or how about New York Thruway's original blue gore signs from the 1950's? They used a long arrow positioned horizontally under the legend. Deanej?
I'm afraid the 50s is well before my time. By about 40 years.
The last of the old style Thruway exit gore signs that I remember lasted until 1987 or so for Exits 47 and 48. Exit 48 had a complete set of the older layout (but they were dark green, not blue) up until 1987.
ROUTE 98
Batavia
EXIT 48 1 MILE
NYSDOT exit gore signs up until 1983 actually had the word "EXIT" in the upper left hand corner with the arrow taking up the whole right side. I suggested they switch back to those, as it doesn't crowd the arrow as much with the word EXIT off center and drew one here:
http://www.upstatenyroads.com/signshop3.shtml
Sorry about dredging up a 5+ year old topic but there's been some interesting movement in California with regards to gore signage.
In a memo dated August 12th, 2015, Caltrans basically gave it's blessing for the local districts to use the FHWA-standard exit gore sign (E5-1a) in lieu of their own G84 series sign. The justification for the switch was, as JN Winkler speculated, to improve the safety of the maintenance crews. The Caltrans study also found that by moving the gore sign back the 250 or so feet, it also reduced the chances of the sign being knocked down by drivers cutting through the gore point.
Like I originally said, a number of exits on CA-99 through District 6 use the E5-1a exit gore sign but they began popping up on US 101 in the Prunedale area too a few years ago. Today, Caltrans is advertising a ramp gore paving project at various points on CA-37 and I-80 in Solano county (04-4G9604) and these plans call for the removal of the G84 series gore signs and the installation of E5-1a signs instead. This is, AFAIK, the first installation of the E5-1a signs on a S.F. Bay Area freeway (Caltrans District 4).
Note: Mods, I just noticed this topic was still in General Highway Talk (probably because it was so old it pre-dated the split). Can you please move this to the Traffic Control sub-board? Thanks!
ADOT has the stacked type (in Clearview) on a portion of I-17 between I-10 and Loop 101 in Phoenix, as well on the Loop 202 Red Mountain Freeway between Loop 101 and Gilbert Road. I wonder if the South Mountain Freeway will use the stacked type in FHWA. For some reason the newly widened Loop 101 Pima Freeway uses the standard type, however.
Quote from: myosh_tino on September 19, 2016, 02:10:51 PM
Sorry about dredging up a 5+ year old topic but there's been some interesting movement in California with regards to gore signage.
In a memo dated August 12th, 2015, Caltrans basically gave it's blessing for the local districts to use the FHWA-standard exit gore sign (E5-1a) in lieu of their own G84 series sign. The justification for the switch was, as JN Winkler speculated, to improve the safety of the maintenance crews. The Caltrans study also found that by moving the gore sign back the 250 or so feet, it also reduced the chances of the sign being knocked down by drivers cutting through the gore point.
Like I originally said, a number of exits on CA-99 through District 6 use the E5-1a exit gore sign but they began popping up on US 101 in the Prunedale area too a few years ago. Today, Caltrans is advertising a ramp gore paving project at various points on CA-37 and I-80 in Solano county (04-4G9604) and these plans call for the removal of the G84 series gore signs and the installation of E5-1a signs instead. This is, AFAIK, the first installation of the E5-1a signs on a S.F. Bay Area freeway (Caltrans District 4).
I see they used an E5-1a exit gore when the I-5/CA74 Ortega Hwy interchange was rebuilt last year:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi96.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fl200%2Fmrkf%2FE5-1a%2520I-5S%2520at%2520CA74_zpsp5xzrvnn.jpg&hash=138014a003b3ee3af69bf38c90942cf906cddb19)
Quote from: MarkF on September 26, 2016, 01:51:13 AM
I see they used an E5-1a exit gore when the I-5/CA74 Ortega Hwy interchange was rebuilt last year:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi96.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fl200%2Fmrkf%2FE5-1a%2520I-5S%2520at%2520CA74_zpsp5xzrvnn.jpg&hash=138014a003b3ee3af69bf38c90942cf906cddb19)
I seem to recall someone in another thread saying that E5-1a exit gore signs were starting to pop up in Orange County (Caltrans District 12). FWIW, the northbound I-5 exit features what I call a hybrid exit gore sign (https://goo.gl/maps/fp5SJRtpXs32). It's sized like the E5-1a but is laid out like a G84 series gore sign with the shorter shafted arrow and Series D numerals.