Exit Gore Signage

[myosh_tino]

Stemming from a recent discussion in the Clearview thread about exit gore signs, I got to drawing exit gore signs based on California spec and FHWA spec.  California's gore signs (G84-2 and G84-3) are significantly narrower than those used in other states and I suspect the reason has to do with "lateral offsets".  The G84-2 sign is basically the pre-exit numbering gore point sign (G84) with the arrow moved to one side to accommodate the 1 or 2 digit exit number.  The G84-3 sign for 3 and 4 digit exit numbers is narrower than the G84-2 sign and the exit number and arrow are stacked one on top of the other.  I suspect that because the new gore point signs were supposed to use the existing wood post, the lateral offset issue became a major factor when Caltrans designed their new exit number gore point signs.  Here are the signs I drew and these are proportionally correct...

California -- G84-2 & G84-3...


FHWA -- E5-1A (1-2 Digit, 3-Digit & 4-Digit)...




On my last visit to Las Vegas, I decided to use CA-99 to CA-152 to return to San Jose instead of cutting over to I-5.  While driving through Fresno I spotted an FHWA-style 3-digit exit gore sign for Exit 133/CA-180 East.  I also spotted a similar sign at Exit 166/CA-152 West north of Madera.  I thought these were sign goofs by an out of state contractor until I came across project plans for CA-41 to rehab the gore points and add maintenance vehicle pullouts (project 06-0E3104).  The signing plans for this project includes the installation of new FHWA-style gore point signs.  As part of the reconstruction of the gore points, the gore signs have been moved back to provide the correct lateral offset.  What's odd is the sign code for the new gore point sign is still G84-2(CA) even though 3 and 4 digit exit numbers are supposed to use the G84-3(CA) sign.

Whether this means Caltrans is going to adopt the FHWA gore signs remains to be seen.  I've been scouring the currently advertised projects on the Caltrans' website and have yet to see the FHWA-style gore signs show up on any other project.  It's entirely possible District 6 is testing the FHWA-style gore signs to help Caltrans make a decision to use them statewide.

[froggie]

Although I don't have any examples drawn up, here are MnDOT's specs for gore signs with a single-digit exit number (E5-1B, 72" x 60"), having 2 or more digits in the exit number (also E5-1B, variable width and 84" height), and gore signs without an exit number (E5-1, also 72" x 60").

[CL]

Within the last five or six years, Utah has deviated from the FHWA specifications by making the numerals of the exit number in series D. I wonder where they see the wisdom in that change...

[myosh_tino]

Although I don't have any examples drawn up, here are MnDOT's specs for gore signs with a single-digit exit number (E5-1B, 72" x 60"), having 2 or more digits in the exit number (also E5-1B, variable width and 84" height), and gore signs without an exit number (E5-1, also 72" x 60").

Froggie, I'm curious if you have any idea why Minnesota decided to go with the "stacked" exit gore signs versus the FHWA standard?  I'm pretty sure California did it due to the lateral offset issue.

Also, I found a large table within the 2009 MUTCD that specifies sizes for gore point signs (there are 8 of them!).  Since there are no drawings of these signs, I'm going to start with the ones I drew (based on specs I found at the Oregon DOT).

Within the last five or six years, Utah has deviated from the FHWA specifications by making the numerals of the exit number in series D. I wonder where they see the wisdom in that change...

Was there an accompanying reduction in sign width?  Series D numerals on gore signs that large would look kind of strange wouldn't it?

[vtk]

I thought I saw stacked versions in the MUTCD, too.  Ohio seems to favor the stacked style lately, particularly where there isn't much lateral space (like at the start of a barrier-separated deceleration lane) but sometimes when there's just no good reason for it.  I personally prefer the FHWA E51A non-stacked type, aesthetically.

[The Premier]

West Virginia have used this type of exit gore for triple digit numbers. Not sure if Ohio has this type, however.



Actual sign:

http://maps.google.com/?ll=39.391508,-81.439633&spn=0.004129,0.006899&z=17&layer=c&cbll=39.391133,-81.439683&panoid=yQgoUBKs7W-BRWt7AcBNUA&cbp=12,175.36,,0,0.98

[Revive 755]

^ Missouri used to use that style, but the arrow was more centered.  Now Missouri mostly uses the stacked design, but will occasionally use the more standard FHWA design.

Iowa also used to use a design similar to that above, but the number tab did not go for the whole width of the sign:
http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ll=41.049253,-95.820229&spn=0.013723,0.033023&z=16&layer=c&cbll=41.049253,-95.820229&panoid=rKwFu1Dowdp3wtzIdCXdFw&cbp=12,200.45,,0,3.68

Nebraska uses the above design, but switches the placement of 'EXIT' and the number:
http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ll=40.894497,-96.557057&spn=0.006837,0.016512&z=17&layer=c&cbll=40.894638,-96.55664&panoid=ctsJ6do59byWpFTaUmZIWA&cbp=12,256.44,,0,-0.53

[Android]

Within the last five or six years, Utah has deviated from the FHWA specifications by making the numerals of the exit number in series D. I wonder where they see the wisdom in that change...

Was there an accompanying reduction in sign width?  Series D numerals on gore signs that large would look kind of strange wouldn't it?

Here's one of those Utah Series D signs, EB I-80 Castle Rock exit 185. 




And speaking of EXIT 185, and of narrow typeface lettering, here's another one, CA this time:



As mentioned before, a fair number of Gore sign photos were posted in that Clearview thread, those were mine.  Here in Wyoming there has always been a lack of consistancly on their signs, so we have Clearview, Series E, Series D. Plus the state has gone to a compact style of sign over the last 10 years.  Even now, several years after Clearview first started showing up on interstate signs, you still see FHWA lettering used  from time to time. some samples of signs put up in 2008 and 2009:

[myosh_tino]

And speaking of EXIT 185, and of narrow typeface lettering, here's another one, CA this time:

Those are Series C numerals and is actually the standard typeface for the 3-4 digit exit gore sign according to the spec sheet for the G84-3 sign.  However, there are numerous 3-digit exit gore signs that use Series D numerals.  I prefer the Series D numerals for legibility reasons.

[CL]

Here's one of those Utah Series D signs, EB I-80 Castle Rock exit 185. 

That sign's actually a bit substandard as far as our exit gore signage goes, but that's the crux of what's going on. Driving around today I tried to pay attention to the width of the exit signs, and I think you (myosh tino) are right in regards to sign width. Looks like they're using the two-digit sign width for three-digit exit numbers, which are in series D. Strange, but that's UDOT for you.

[roadfro]

I think Nevada was actually using the FHWA 3-digit spec for 1- & 2-digit exits for some time. Recent replacements in the Reno area have been narrower than others, but still using the FHWA design. I hadn't realized this until noticing some of the newer signs recently.

[froggie]

Froggie, I'm curious if you have any idea why Minnesota decided to go with the "stacked" exit gore signs versus the FHWA standard?

Not sure.  I've never asked, and MnDOT's gone with their version of the stacked gore sign since at least 1975.

[Brandon]

Found this bizarre example while on I-380 in Iowa yesterday.



An exit tab for an exit gore sign. 

[hobsini2]

IDOT used to make some different exit gore signs then the standard.  I was hoping i could find an example.  Brandon, do you have an of the pics of the "old" exit gores on I-55 or I-80 in Joliet? I know on I-55 at US 52, IL 59, and US 6 exits had the ones i am talking about.  Most exits in IL had them.  Unfortunately, when IDOT finally widened I-55 to I-80, those signs where changed to the standard bigger ones.  I am going to see if i can still find one though.

Added on Thut 7/7:
Today when i was out working, I did see one of the "types" i was talking about earlier on I-55 SB at US 12-20-45 La Grange Rd (Exit 279A-B).

BTW, I did find a link that does have the sign i was looking for.
http://www.highwayexplorer.com/il_EndsPage.php?id=3080&section=1
Look under I-80 East Bound Exit 133 Richards St in Joliet. It's tough to see, but you will see the number is very different from the typical gore sign.

[Kacie Jane]

WSDOT (Washington) seems to use both the FHWA and stacked styles semi-randomly.  (There's some correlation towards using the narrower sign for a narrower space, but it doesn't seem to be the rule 100% of the time.)  The difference between WSDOT and the California examples posted though, is that WSDOT uses Series E and the long arrow on both styles.

[Scott5114]

Here's an...uhm...creative approach for a gore sign from Lawton, OK...

[stormwatch7721]

Ohio does have the CA-style signs on I-77 in Ohio in Gurnset County, but the use the FHWA series E font, except exit numbers 44 and
46, which they use the Blue highway Series D font.

[vdeane]

Here's an...uhm...creative approach for a gore sign from Lawton, OK...

Well, the arrow does point in the direction the ramp goes!

[deathtopumpkins]

Looks like something Maryland would do. I know they use different arrows for different types of ramps, like particularly sharp ones get a horizontal arrow.

[SignBridge]

How about a blast from the past? Does anyone remember the original gore signs on New Jersey's Garden State Parkway back in the 1960's? They used a short arrow in a circle that extended out at the top right corner of the rectangular sign. I don't think there are any of those left, regrettably.

Or how about New York Thruway's original blue gore signs from the 1950's? They used a long arrow positioned horizontally under the legend.  Deanej? 

[Ace10]

West Virginia have used this type of exit gore for triple digit numbers. Not sure if Ohio has this type, however.

Actual sign:

http://maps.google.com/?ll=39.391508,-81.439633&spn=0.004129,0.006899&z=17&layer=c&cbll=39.391133,-81.439683&panoid=yQgoUBKs7W-BRWt7AcBNUA&cbp=12,175.36,,0,0.98

I saw one like this on FL 408 going westbound near I-4. Definitely not the standard of Florida to post gore signs like this, especially on the toll freeways.

[vdeane]

How about a blast from the past? Does anyone remember the original gore signs on New Jersey's Garden State Parkway back in the 1960's? They used a short arrow in a circle that extended out at the top right corner of the rectangular sign. I don't think there are any of those left, regrettably.

Or how about New York Thruway's original blue gore signs from the 1950's? They used a long arrow positioned horizontally under the legend.  Deanej? 

I'm afraid the 50s is well before my time.  By about 40 years.

[Ian]

From what I've seen, the Maryland Transportation Authority uses the "stacked" style gore sign (the G84-3 one).

[SignBridge]

Sorry Dean, I only noticed your logo, not your age. (Chuckle!) But I thought if you're into NY Thruway stuff, you might have found old photos, etc. I'm quite a student of the original T'way myself. Point of trivia: Our nationally standardized BGS system is an outgrowth of the original Thruway sign system from the 1950's combined with features from California's standard system of the same era.

[vtk]

Looks like something Maryland would do. I know they use different arrows for different types of ramps, like particularly sharp ones get a horizontal arrow.

That should be done everywhere, IMO.  Actually, I thought the MUTCD said something to this effect, at least regarding exit direction signs.