On the Southeast board is a thread talking about Louisiana's hyphenated "route families". The entire time I was reading it I was thinking "only in Louisiana". What else is out there that makes you say "only in this state"? :hmmm:
Quote from: cjk374 on December 13, 2012, 04:39:44 PM
On the Southeast board is a thread talking about Louisiana's hyphenated "route families". The entire time I was reading it I was thinking "only in Louisiana". What else is out there that makes you say "only in this state"? :hmmm:
The fractional route numbering of West Virginia.
There are hyphenated county road numbers all over Missouri.
In Hawaii, county route markers identical to the state markers (except on Maui island, where county roads often have slightly different and uglier versions of the state marker).
Quote from: cjk374 on December 13, 2012, 04:39:44 PM
On the Southeast board is a thread talking about Louisiana's hyphenated "route families". The entire time I was reading it I was thinking "only in Louisiana". What else is out there that makes you say "only in this state"? :hmmm:
Arkansas: Multiple occurrences of a route number (AR 60, AR 74 come to mind right away)
I can attest to Missouri's hyphenated county roads (and lake roads) such as 86-3 or JJ-6 as kphoger mentioned. I wonder if they ever get double hyphened such a JJ-6-A ?
If I'm not mistaken, California is the only state route shield that is never displayed in a square/rectangle.
Quote from: US71 on December 13, 2012, 07:06:16 PM
I can attest to Missouri's hyphenated county roads (and lake roads) such as 86-3 or JJ-6 as kphoger mentioned. I wonder if they ever get double hyphened such a JJ-6-A ?
Oh, absolutely. Here is a portion of Stone County. Toward the bottom center area, you can easily pick out a road named DD-20-C. On the other side of the point is D-25-B. Et cætera. Sorry, Louisiana.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1092.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fi410%2Fkphoger%2Fhyphenated_zpsbad34d8a.png&hash=4e0c212baa5d15d425003209e459a3a4f29a8730)
Only in Florida: a route marker that looks like a drooping penis.
Only in Connecticut: BGS's with reflective button copy and route markers on the signs with green backgrounds.
Only in Mass.: Signs that say "Thickly Settled" when reaching a town
Only in Vermont: Yellow signs that warn of frost heaves.
Only in New York: The little green reference markers every 1/5 of a mile
Only in Delaware: Blinking green signals.
How much time do you have, buddy?
Quote from: jp the roadgeek on December 13, 2012, 09:15:55 PM
Only in Delaware: Blinking green signals.
Where exactly in Delaware have you seen flashing green signals? I've heard of them existing in Massachusetts, but I didn't know anywhere else in the US had them.
Quote from: PennDOTFan on December 13, 2012, 09:33:45 PM
Quote from: jp the roadgeek on December 13, 2012, 09:15:55 PM
Only in Delaware: Blinking green signals.
Where exactly in Delaware have you seen flashing green signals? I've heard of them existing in Massachusetts, but I didn't know anywhere else in the US had them.
I remember seeing one on DE 1 between Dover and Rehoboth.
Quote from: jp the roadgeek on December 13, 2012, 09:15:55 PM
Only in Delaware: Blinking green signals.
Outside of the U.S., but pretty close, Ontario has blinking green, at least they did when I visited Toronto in 1997.
Quote from: jp the roadgeek on December 13, 2012, 09:35:50 PM
Quote from: PennDOTFan on December 13, 2012, 09:33:45 PM
Quote from: jp the roadgeek on December 13, 2012, 09:15:55 PM
Only in Delaware: Blinking green signals.
Where exactly in Delaware have you seen flashing green signals? I've heard of them existing in Massachusetts, but I didn't know anywhere else in the US had them.
I remember seeing one on DE 1 between Dover and Rehoboth.
I too remember seeing flashing green on DE 1 in that vicinity....it was at least 15 years ago but I definitely remember seeing it and thinking "hey! I thought flashing green was just a Massachusetts thing!"
Quote from: cpzilliacus on December 13, 2012, 09:36:31 PM
Quote from: jp the roadgeek on December 13, 2012, 09:15:55 PM
Only in Delaware: Blinking green signals.
Outside of the U.S., but pretty close, Ontario has blinking green, at least they did when I visited Toronto in 1997.
Vancouver BC had them as of 2011. On major street only. Cross street had stop signs and push-button pedestrian signals on those intersections.
Quote from: PurdueBill on December 13, 2012, 09:45:36 PM
Quote from: jp the roadgeek on December 13, 2012, 09:35:50 PM
Quote from: PennDOTFan on December 13, 2012, 09:33:45 PM
Quote from: jp the roadgeek on December 13, 2012, 09:15:55 PM
Only in Delaware: Blinking green signals.
Where exactly in Delaware have you seen flashing green signals? I've heard of them existing in Massachusetts, but I didn't know anywhere else in the US had them.
I remember seeing one on DE 1 between Dover and Rehoboth.
I too remember seeing flashing green on DE 1 in that vicinity....it was at least 15 years ago but I definitely remember seeing it and thinking "hey! I thought flashing green was just a Massachusetts thing!"
Interesting. I had no clue that Delaware had them, so this is news to me. I'm willing to bet that these are gone by now?
Does any state besides New Mexico have the "Dust Storms May Exist" signs? [I think Texas and maybe other states have "Watch for Dust Storms" signs.]
We were pretty tired by the time we drove thru and the wording just seemed very...existential...to us. We were somewhere between philosophical and punchy....
Most people think jughandles are only in NJ, but they definitely exist elsewhere. Here's one that's pretty uniquely NJ: traffic circles with ambiguous traffic control and at least one leg, if not two or more legs, where the entrance has priority over the circle.
Only in Quebec: road signs in French. :-P
Only in Prince Edward Island - everything is on an LGS
Only in Pennsylvania - the roads follow the landscape instead of being built straight :P
"Do Not Drive Into Smoke" signs on the Will Rogers Turnpike here in Oklahoma.
Oregon's "SPEED" signs.
Are there any other states other than Wisconsin that exclusively use letters to designate county highways?
Quote from: DaBigE on December 13, 2012, 11:48:54 PM
Are there any other states other than Wisconsin that exclusively use letters to designate county highways?
Missouri
Louisiana: Route families (LA 1208-1, -2, -3, -4, -5); parish markers instead of county markers; four state gravel highways.
Mississippi: numbering each old US highway alignment with a 1XX, as in, Old US 84 is 184, even if it exists twenty times.
Arkansas: Business routes are XXB. In Huttig, AR 129 is AR 129B.
Quote from: jp the roadgeek on December 14, 2012, 12:05:06 AM
Quote from: DaBigE on December 13, 2012, 11:48:54 PM
Are there any other states other than Wisconsin that exclusively use letters to designate county highways?
Missouri
Some lettered routes in Missouri have a number after the letter(s). And unlike in Wisconsin, lettered routes in Missouri are secondary state highways rather than county highways.
Quote from: Rick1962 on December 13, 2012, 11:07:13 PM
"Do Not Drive Into Smoke" signs on the Will Rogers Turnpike here in Oklahoma.
The Kansas Turnpike has those as well.
California has a pretty large list.
Only in Wisconsin - one piece sine salads and ladder-like signal mast arms.
Quote from: SSOWorld on December 14, 2012, 07:10:26 AM
Only in Wisconsin - one piece sine salads
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.alpsroads.net%2Froads%2Fri%2Fus_6%2Fw116.jpg&hash=186dd685d15e6dc817a24101572953459af6643b)
This and others on http://www.alpsroads.net/roads/ri/us_6/
Quote from: jp the roadgeek on December 13, 2012, 09:35:50 PM
Quote from: PennDOTFan on December 13, 2012, 09:33:45 PM
Quote from: jp the roadgeek on December 13, 2012, 09:15:55 PM
Only in Delaware: Blinking green signals.
Where exactly in Delaware have you seen flashing green signals? I've heard of them existing in Massachusetts, but I didn't know anywhere else in the US had them.
I remember seeing one on DE 1 between Dover and Rehoboth.
There was one on DE 7 near Hockessin as well in the 90's...it's now a regular traffic light. In fact, I think there was 3 in New Castle County; none of which remain.
Quote from: Steve on December 13, 2012, 11:06:18 PM
Most people think jughandles are only in NJ, but they definitely exist elsewhere. Here's one that's pretty uniquely NJ: traffic circles with ambiguous traffic control and at least one leg, if not two or more legs, where the entrance has priority over the circle.
Along with numerous entrances/exits of private businesses directly into and out of the circle via curb cuts. And in at least one case, a gas station directly in the middle of the circle.
Quote from: SSOWorld on December 14, 2012, 07:10:26 AM
Only in Wisconsin - one piece sine salads and ladder-like signal mast arms.
IIRC, I've seen the "ladder-like" (a.k.a. trombone arms) in areas Pennsylvania and Texas. Illinois has a variation on it as well (curved arm).
Quote from: jp the roadgeek on December 13, 2012, 09:15:55 PM
Only in Connecticut: BGS's with reflective button copy and route markers on the signs with green backgrounds.
California was the originator of this concept and you can still see plenty of examples there. CT - for some reason - resurrected this (at the time) 25 year old concept in the 1980s but discontinued it about 20 years ago.
Quote from: jp the roadgeek on December 13, 2012, 09:15:55 PM
Only in Vermont: Yellow signs that warn of frost heaves.
No, not only in Vermont. New Hampshire, Maine and Massachusetts commonly have such signs.
Quote from: jp the roadgeek on December 13, 2012, 09:15:55 PM
Only in New York: The little green reference markers every 1/5 of a mile
The format may be unique to New York, but the concept is common. One could say the same of the complex little black on white markers that highways in CA have had for decades.
Quote from: jp the roadgeek on December 13, 2012, 09:15:55 PM
Only in Delaware: Blinking green signals.
This is common in many other countries, it usually implies that the green period is about to end - but can also mean "left turn only". Depends where you are.
Only in IL: States as control cities (especially around Chicagoland)
VT has green reference markers as well, but at irregular intervals.
Only in NY: boxed street names on guide signs
Only in ON: using a different font size for every control city on a sign
Only in QC: those yellow trapezoids that replace the exit tab
Quote from: DaBigE on December 14, 2012, 09:19:49 AM
Quote from: SSOWorld on December 14, 2012, 07:10:26 AM
Only in Wisconsin - one piece sine salads and ladder-like signal mast arms.
IIRC, I've seen the "ladder-like" (a.k.a. trombone arms) in areas Pennsylvania and Texas. Illinois has a variation on it as well (curved arm).
And trombone arms are common in New Jersey and New Mexico.
Quote from: Henry on December 14, 2012, 10:46:20 AM
Only in IL: States as control cities (especially around Chicagoland)
There are some instances of MoDOT doing this as well ("Kansas" for I-635, "Illinois" for I-55 NB).
Not sure if it's elsewhere, but when I think of Massachusetts, I immediately think of text signs with arrows through the numbers
http://www.flickr.com/photos/33445721@N04/6454615515/
Quote from: StogieGuy7 on December 14, 2012, 10:36:43 AM
Quote from: jp the roadgeek on December 13, 2012, 09:15:55 PM
Only in Delaware: Blinking green signals.
This is common in many other countries, it usually implies that the green period is about to end - but can also mean "left turn only". Depends where you are.
While the flashing green is common in other countries, the use of it in Delaware was vastly different.
In Delaware, the main road would have a flashing green; the side road would have a flashing red. The concept was that traffic on the side road would be permitted to enter the intersection when safe to do so. But unlike a flashing yellow/red combo, if traffic remained on the side road too long, the traffic light would quit flashing and would go into normal mode. After the side road received the green light (then yellow, then red), the main road would get the steady green again. After a few moments, the light would change back to flashing green/flashing red.
While the thinking behind it was sound - no need to stop the traffic on the main road when a single car on a side road could find a break in traffic - it was a bit confusing because it was too unique, especially to those that never encountered such a signal. And traffic volumes were rising on these roads, decreasing the significant breaks in traffic that allowed this type of signal to work properly. Thus, the flashing green/red was eliminated from the Delaware landscape.
Quote from: jeffandnicole on December 14, 2012, 08:57:39 AM
Quote from: jp the roadgeek on December 13, 2012, 09:35:50 PM
Quote from: PennDOTFan on December 13, 2012, 09:33:45 PM
Quote from: jp the roadgeek on December 13, 2012, 09:15:55 PM
Only in Delaware: Blinking green signals.
Where exactly in Delaware have you seen flashing green signals? I've heard of them existing in Massachusetts, but I didn't know anywhere else in the US had them.
I remember seeing one on DE 1 between Dover and Rehoboth.
There was one on DE 7 near Hockessin as well in the 90's...it's now a regular traffic light. In fact, I think there was 3 in New Castle County; none of which remain.
One was located on Chapman Road at Regal Boulevard (http://goo.gl/maps/Bbs2T). I regularly saw this one as I attended adjacent Christiana High School. Another, as you mentioned, was indeed on DE 7 toward Hockessin. The one on DE 7 was in use before Limestone Road was fully four-laned. It may have been at Valley Road or Brackenville Road, but I cannot remember.
Only in Virginia is the mileage signs on off freeways posted along with the reassurence shields post intersection.
Only in New Jersey is the jughandle system used statewide. Although parts of other states use it, but not as regular as New Jersey.
Also in New Jersey exclusively are mast arms used more than the amount of directions in places. Sometimes you can find up to eight individual mast arms at one intersection with only four ways of movement/ direction.
In the Garden State you will find one signal head placed to the left of the center line unless there is a left turn signal. In addition the Emergency Signals are usually out completely instead of the typical flashing yellow. In many areas here, the light goes on during an emergency and then turns back off once the response vehicle leaves the intersection.
http://maps.google.com/maps?q=Colonia,+Woodbridge+Township,+NJ&hl=en&ll=40.600016,-74.313583&spn=0.004122,0.009345&sll=27.698638,-83.804601&sspn=9.834914,19.138184&oq=colonia,+n&t=h&hnear=Colonia,+Woodbridge+Township,+Middlesex,+New+Jersey&z=17&layer=c&cbll=40.600005,-74.313716&panoid=dAcqh6BZzTnkGpy3a4ewNQ&cbp=12,95.14,,0,0
Quote from: Henry on December 14, 2012, 10:46:20 AM
Only in IL: States as control cities (especially around Chicagoland)
Until the early 1990s, it was common for BGS (and some LGS) panels on some routes in Massachusetts to use "NH-Maine" as the northbound control destination. AFAIK, the only such signs remaining are on ramps exiting the Mass. Pike for I-95 (128) north in Weston and I-495 north in Marlborough.
Once could also argue that the "New York" destination that appears almost everywhere on I-95 south in Rhode Island refers to the state, as it doesn't include the word "City".
Quote from: Big John on December 14, 2012, 10:48:51 AM
Quote from: DaBigE on December 14, 2012, 09:19:49 AM
Quote from: SSOWorld on December 14, 2012, 07:10:26 AM
Only in Wisconsin - one piece sine salads and ladder-like signal mast arms.
IIRC, I've seen the "ladder-like" (a.k.a. trombone arms) in areas Pennsylvania and Texas. Illinois has a variation on it as well (curved arm).
And trombone arms are common in New Jersey and New Mexico.
The ones in New Mexico are pretty much confined to Albuquerque. Otherwise the mast arms are monotube.
Only in South Carolina, AFAIK: Secondary road markers that give the county number as well as the route number (e.g., S-30-301, which is in Laurens County (#30)).
Quote from: Scott5114 on December 14, 2012, 11:27:29 AM
Quote from: Henry on December 14, 2012, 10:46:20 AM
Only in IL: States as control cities (especially around Chicagoland)
There are some instances of MoDOT doing this as well ("Kansas" for I-635, "Illinois" for I-55 NB).
and now Alabama at I-65's southern terminus. Florida and Mississippi instead of Pensacola and Pascagoula
Only in Louisiana (maybe not totally): Are 3di's squished into 2di shields. I know other states do this, but we seem to have it across the board. I-220 and US 171 come to mind
Only in Colorado...State Route markers that:
1) Use
Five different colors in the same state route shield (the most of any numbered route shield in the US)
2) Incorporate their state flag in their state route shields.
Quote from: bassoon1986 on December 14, 2012, 02:27:26 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on December 14, 2012, 11:27:29 AM
Quote from: Henry on December 14, 2012, 10:46:20 AM
Only in IL: States as control cities (especially around Chicagoland)
There are some instances of MoDOT doing this as well ("Kansas" for I-635, "Illinois" for I-55 NB).
and now Alabama at I-65's southern terminus. Florida and Mississippi instead of Pensacola and Pascagoula
I-70 West in Colorado, beginning in Grand Junction, uses Utah as the Control city.
Only in California: Arrows that point down and to the left (right) to the start of the entrance ramp on FREEWAY ENTRANCE sign assemblies. At least, CA's the only place I've seen those. Any other places have them?
Google Maps Example (https://maps.google.com/maps?q=El+Sobrante,+CA&hl=en&ll=33.865307,-118.324771&spn=0.003568,0.006968&sll=42.685464,-73.962708&sspn=0.81263,1.783905&oq=el+so&hnear=El+Sobrante,+Contra+Costa,+California&t=m&layer=c&cbll=33.865579,-118.325221&panoid=bOb3qh1YK1KPbrPdCGqfXA&cbp=12,216.36,,0,13.58&z=18)
Quote from: Doctor Whom on December 14, 2012, 01:44:13 PM
Only in South Carolina, AFAIK: Secondary road markers that give the county number as well as the route number (e.g., S-30-301, which is in Laurens County (#30)).
Nebraska does this with their link/spur routes but I don't know if they're considered primary or secondary.
North Carolina used to do this with their 1001-series signs but I believe they've stopped doing that.
I would also argue that SC incorporates their state flag into their state highway signs.
Virginia might be the only state that doesn't allow duplication of state route numbers and secondary numbers where it would be possible to do so (e.g. North Carolina and Pennsylvania don't have 4-digit state routes; Missouri secondary routes aren't integers, etc).
Mapmikey
Quote from: Henry on December 14, 2012, 10:46:20 AM
Only in IL: States as control cities (especially around Chicagoland)
On most of the Indiana Toll Road the control "cities" are Chicago and Ohio.
Only in California:
- Plentiful amounts of button-copy signage
- Internal exit tabs (though Penna has some as well)
- The FasTrak electronic tolling
- Lane markings such as the one explained on this post by myosh_tino on the "California Questions" thread:
Quote from: myosh_tino on November 09, 2012, 01:01:08 PM
Native California-roadgeek here.
The type of shoulder striping realjd is referring to, where the right shoulder line ends and a new one forms to the right and arcs out to form a new right shoulder line, is to indicate an upcoming freeway exit when there is poor visibility like dense fog. According to the California MUTCD, this angled line is supposed to begin 350 feet prior to the exit. I know this is standard in California but I am not sure if this is a national standard (my guess is probably not).
Here is an illustration of the standard California freeway shoulder striping I clipped from the California MUTCD...
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fmarkyville.com%2Faaroads%2Fca_shoulder_striping.png&hash=3a7349b41c758884200105af6a8ff595abfccfeb)
All I could think of right now...
I have seen isolated examples of some of the things mentioned above in other states.
New Jersey used Pennsylvania as the control city for I-95 south from U.S. 1 to the Scudders Falls Bridge, though some now say Philadelphia.
If memory serves, I have seen Freeway Entrance signs in Arizona, but I don't think the route assembly is underneath it.
I see locations in many states where 3di route numbers are in 2di shields. Same with the U.S. route markers.
I recall in Niagara Falls seeing flashing green to mean a lead left turn phase at a signalized intersection. This was back in 2000 when I saw it.
New Jersey, however, is the only state (DOT, anyway) whose practice is to use shields with black backgrounds (expect interstates) on their guide signs.
Pennsylvania is the only state I have seen to use a weaving area sign. It is a warning sign (diamond), used largely in advance of auxiliary lanes with cloverleafs, with a symbol of two crossing arrows for a weaving movement. I will see if I can get a picture, unless other Pa. participants here already have one.
Only in Texas:
- Interstates are called "IH-xx" instead of the regular "I-xx"
- Frontage roads in the goonies
- FM and RM roads
Quote from: akotchi on December 14, 2012, 04:08:35 PM
Pennsylvania is the only state I have seen to use a weaving area sign. It is a warning sign (diamond), used largely in advance of auxiliary lanes with cloverleafs, with a symbol of two crossing arrows for a weaving movement. I will see if I can get a picture, unless other Pa. participants here already have one.
Here you go (http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5299/5540813091_2346d0e436_b.jpg)!
Here are a few of mine...
-Only in Pennsylvania will you have a flat, straight section of 2-lane road with lots of visibility and still have a double yellow line.
-Only in Quebec will you see a sign like this (http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8447/7866810760_a498c9285d_b.jpg).
-Only in New York will you see suffixed route with odd letters, such as NY 9P or NY 17K.
-Only in New York will you see different varieties of speed limits written on signs, such as state (http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8482/8161339748_da70bccc2d_b.jpg), and village (http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7011/6535075977_905552c1bc_b.jpg).
-Only in New Hampshire will you see the suffix on a suffixed route get written below the number on a route shield, like so (http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8010/7630851262_06731fd5ce_h.jpg).
-Only in Vermont and New Hampshire will you see a sign with a skidding motorcycle (http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7123/7630822108_e7a300edfd_h.jpg).
This probably isn't really a fair one to post, but what the heck.
Only in Virginia, and only in Charlottesville, will you find the University of Virginia V-Sabres logo used on a BGS as though it were a shield: http://www.gribblenation.com/vapics/us29/us29bus_uva_us250-cvl.jpg
Arkansas: rumble strips inside the stripe. They drive me crazy.
Quote from: US81 on December 13, 2012, 10:56:46 PM
Does any state besides New Mexico have the "Dust Storms May Exist" signs? [I think Texas and maybe other states have "Watch for Dust Storms" signs.]
We were pretty tired by the time we drove thru and the wording just seemed very...existential...to us. We were somewhere between philosophical and punchy....
Arizona has these. also at one time Arizona had Flipable BG Pullthrus/ Yellow Blowing Dust Warning with flashing lights posted on I-8 (Casa Grande to Glia Bend) and I-10 (Queen Creek Road to Casa Grande).
Only in North Carolina do the white signs advising of an impending drop in the speed limit use the grammatically-correct "REDUCE SPEED AHEAD" rather than the form "REDUCED SPEED AHEAD" (which I maintain is grammatically incorrect because it is the speed limit that is reduced, and we've all seen speed-limit decreases that nobody obeys).
Quote from: theline on December 14, 2012, 05:17:43 PM
Arkansas: rumble strips inside the stripe. They drive me crazy.
And in Pennsylvania, rumble strips along the double yellow line on every state highway! :pan:
Quote from: NE2 on December 14, 2012, 08:05:42 AM
Quote from: SSOWorld on December 14, 2012, 07:10:26 AM
Only in Wisconsin - one piece sine salads
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.alpsroads.net%2Froads%2Fri%2Fus_6%2Fw116.jpg&hash=186dd685d15e6dc817a24101572953459af6643b)
This and others on http://www.alpsroads.net/roads/ri/us_6/
New Hampshire has them as well, though these may just be LGS's...
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm8.staticflickr.com%2F7250%2F7630863150_00931083ed_z.jpg&hash=7b0a2542af1dc917b9007fd8845301776e48f2a9)
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm9.staticflickr.com%2F8001%2F7630861856_d9947e6720_z.jpg&hash=eec80662850ceb6c7fbc92f2465f7b37edb79b29)
Quote from: PennDOTFan on December 14, 2012, 05:47:16 PM
Quote from: theline on December 14, 2012, 05:17:43 PM
Arkansas: rumble strips inside the stripe. They drive me crazy.
And in Pennsylvania, rumble strips along the double yellow line on every state highway! :pan:
....
I've seen that in Maryland as well (US-15 near Point of Rocks readily comes to mind), and I think I've seen it in Virginia but I'm not positive about that. In either case it's far less common than it is in Pennsylvania, though.
Quote from: Scott5114 on December 14, 2012, 01:22:32 AM
Quote from: Rick1962 on December 13, 2012, 11:07:13 PM
"Do Not Drive Into Smoke" signs on the Will Rogers Turnpike here in Oklahoma.
The Kansas Turnpike has those as well.
Help! How can I not find a picture of those signs online right now???
Quote from: BamaZeus on December 14, 2012, 11:34:07 AM
Not sure if it's elsewhere, but when I think of Massachusetts, I immediately think of text signs with arrows through the numbers
http://www.flickr.com/photos/33445721@N04/6454615515/
I think it was Colorado that used to do that also, but I'm far too lazy and have not enough time to verify.
Quote from: 1995hoo on December 14, 2012, 05:32:22 PM
Only in North Carolina do the white signs advising of an impending drop in the speed limit use the grammatically-correct "REDUCE SPEED AHEAD" rather than the form "REDUCED SPEED AHEAD" (which I maintain is grammatically incorrect because it is the speed limit that is reduced, and we've all seen speed-limit decreases that nobody obeys).
And in Arizona, it's inside a yellow warning sign and reads "SPEED REDUCED AHEAD".
Quote from: jp the roadgeek on December 14, 2012, 12:05:06 AM
Quote from: DaBigE on December 13, 2012, 11:48:54 PM
Are there any other states other than Wisconsin that exclusively use letters to designate county highways?
Missouri
Those are state roads, not county.
Quote from: deanej on December 14, 2012, 10:46:44 AMOnly in ON: using a different font size for every control city on a sign
More specifically: Road names larger than destinations on BGSes.
Quote from: PennDOTFan on December 14, 2012, 04:26:57 PM
-Only in New York will you see suffixed route with odd letters, such as NY 9P or NY 17K.
OK 412P and OK 77S beg to differ!
Quote from: PennDOTFan on December 14, 2012, 04:26:57 PM
-Only in New Hampshire will you see the suffix on a suffixed route get written below the number on a route shield, like so (http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8010/7630851262_06731fd5ce_h.jpg).
Virginia does this with Y routes and used to do them with secondary T routes...
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.vahighways.com%2Fva-ends%2Fbannered%2Fwye006_et_02.jpg&hash=4c42fc2a1cd8cfda73d2bc09f57ff60219f01556)
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.vahighways.com%2Fva-ends%2Fbannered%2Fwye132_wt_02.jpg&hash=5c67d7208a073a0a2273a08f4971dc0c9e92e59f)
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.vahighways.com%2Fva-ends%2Fbannered%2Fwye180_st_02.jpg&hash=03cbe36f387a02780fbefd53a723702402e15d12)
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.vahighways.com%2Fva-ends%2Fbannered%2Fwye205_wt.jpg&hash=1d15349fcd616bd82961578fa55d4dd661012664)
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.vahighways.com%2Foldsigns%2FoldT631.jpg&hash=50bc68714fff5fdf88f3ada80131362014da591e)
Also, Virginia does do the rumble strips in the center line...US 15 north of Leesburg and US 1 in a couple locations north of Richmond. I want to say US 460 between Petersburg and Suffolk has some as well.
Mapmikey
Quote from: EchoCharlieHotel on December 14, 2012, 03:07:36 PM
Only in California: Arrows that point down and to the left (right) to the start of the entrance ramp on FREEWAY ENTRANCE sign assemblies. At least, CA's the only place I've seen those. Any other places have them?
West Virginia.
Quote from: Mapmikey on December 14, 2012, 09:43:13 PM
Also, Virginia does do the rumble strips in the center line...US 15 north of Leesburg and US 1 in a couple locations north of Richmond. I want to say US 460 between Petersburg and Suffolk has some as well.
Mapmikey
US 460 definitely has rumble strips in Sussex County between Waverly and Wakefield. I'll be more certain when I drive to Wakefield next week.
Quote from: hbelkins on December 14, 2012, 10:13:09 PM
Quote from: EchoCharlieHotel on December 14, 2012, 03:07:36 PM
Only in California: Arrows that point down and to the left (right) to the start of the entrance ramp on FREEWAY ENTRANCE sign assemblies. At least, CA's the only place I've seen those. Any other places have them?
West Virginia.
Washington does an all-out California-style assembly (with route shield and down arrows) extremely rarely, but they do exist; typically it's just the green FREEWAY ENTRANCE sign.
However, at least two on-ramps here in Bellingham have new signage, where the simple Freeway Entrance sign has been replaced by a much larger green sign retaining the legend and adding a downward pointing arrow (still no shields though).
Quote from: PennDOTFan on December 14, 2012, 04:26:57 PM
-Only in New Hampshire will you see the suffix on a suffixed route get written below the number on a route shield, like so (http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8010/7630851262_06731fd5ce_h.jpg).
the very first suffixed interstate shields were like this, but I don't think there are any examples left. same with Maine or Massachusetts routes with A suffix, which used to be below the number.
Quote from: Steve on December 14, 2012, 06:06:41 PM
I think it was Colorado that used to do that also, but I'm far too lazy and have not enough time to verify.
(//www.aaroads.com/shields/img/CO/CO19493051i1.jpg)
Quote from: hbelkins on December 14, 2012, 10:13:09 PM
Quote from: EchoCharlieHotel on December 14, 2012, 03:07:36 PM
Only in California: Arrows that point down and to the left (right) to the start of the entrance ramp on FREEWAY ENTRANCE sign assemblies. At least, CA's the only place I've seen those. Any other places have them?
West Virginia.
I believe there are a few in Yuma, AZ as well - but they clearly were done by a CA contractor.
Nebraska is the only state with highway intersection diagram signs when two state highways meet.
Quote from: agentsteel53 on December 14, 2012, 11:39:29 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on December 14, 2012, 10:13:09 PM
Quote from: EchoCharlieHotel on December 14, 2012, 03:07:36 PM
Only in California: Arrows that point down and to the left (right) to the start of the entrance ramp on FREEWAY ENTRANCE sign assemblies. At least, CA's the only place I've seen those. Any other places have them?
West Virginia.
I believe there are a few in Yuma, AZ as well - but they clearly were done by a CA contractor.
I thought I saw these in the Phoenix area too. Anyway, they're in the MUTCD now.
Quote from: Mapmikey on December 14, 2012, 09:43:13 PM
Virginia does this with Y routes and used to do them with secondary T routes...
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.vahighways.com%2Foldsigns%2FoldT631.jpg&hash=50bc68714fff5fdf88f3ada80131362014da591e)
Mapmikey
I have never seen one of these T routes in my life. What and where are they?
T-xxx is a state-maintained route inside town limits. These still exist, but now they drop the T.
Only in NC: Black on white mileage pointers at intersections (currently being phased out, it appears).
Only in KY: BGS supports that have the interior support bars going in all different directions.
-AA Hwy has rumble strips in the middle of the road also (in response to the many comments above)
Only in VA: No junction signs at state/US hwy intersections (they do have many at state/US hwy intersections with I-hwys).
Quote from: agentsteel53 on December 14, 2012, 11:39:29 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on December 14, 2012, 10:13:09 PM
Quote from: EchoCharlieHotel on December 14, 2012, 03:07:36 PM
Only in California: Arrows that point down and to the left (right) to the start of the entrance ramp on FREEWAY ENTRANCE sign assemblies. At least, CA's the only place I've seen those. Any other places have them?
West Virginia.
I believe there are a few in Yuma, AZ as well - but they clearly were done by a CA contractor.
some remain in Minnesota.
Quote from: 74/171FAN on December 14, 2012, 10:17:48 PM
Quote from: Mapmikey on December 14, 2012, 09:43:13 PM
Also, Virginia does do the rumble strips in the center line...US 15 north of Leesburg and US 1 in a couple locations north of Richmond. I want to say US 460 between Petersburg and Suffolk has some as well.
Mapmikey
US 460 definitely has rumble strips in Sussex County between Waverly and Wakefield. I'll be more certain when I drive to Wakefield next week.
Wisconsin started installing them on centerlines - then putting up warning signs saying they're there.
IL: Warning signs saying "High Shoulder" on freeways (I-155 and I-72 are the only two I saw so far) WTF is a high shoulder???
Quote from: theline on December 14, 2012, 05:17:43 PM
Arkansas: rumble strips inside the stripe. They drive me crazy.
Been done in Missouri at least once on US 61 between Hannibal and I-70.
Only in Missouri though will you see a road with 10' lanes and both rumble centerline and rumble edgeline.
Quote from: Mapmikey on December 14, 2012, 09:43:13 PM
Also, Virginia does do the rumble strips in the center line...US 15 north of Leesburg and US 1 in a couple locations north of Richmond. I want to say US 460 between Petersburg and Suffolk has some as well.
VA 13 and US 522 in Powhatan County also have them. I'm about to head to Suffolk, so I'll verify where the 460 rumble strips begin and end.
Only in Virginia (particularly Virginia Beach) are routes that haven't existed since the 1960s still posted with modern signage.
Quote from: PennDOTFan on December 14, 2012, 04:26:57 PM
-Only in Vermont and New Hampshire will you see a sign with a skidding motorcycle (http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7123/7630822108_e7a300edfd_h.jpg).
Interesting to see the GROOVED SHOULDERS warning underneath the motorcycle diamond. In TX, you're not warned about grooves in advance, they're just there.
In Arizona, one highway can inherit its mileposts equal to the mileposts of another highway it branches from. For example, if AZ 79 branches off AZ 77 at milepost 95, the next milepost on AZ 79 will be milepost 96. Many of the older state and US highways do this. This also explains the mileposts and exit numbering for I-17.
Only in the Buffalo area have I heard an interstate referred to with the word "The" before the highway. Exit 52 off THE (pronounced thee) I-90 (what other I-90 is there?)
Quote from: jp the roadgeek on December 13, 2012, 09:15:55 PM
Only in Connecticut: BGS's with reflective button copy and route markers on the signs with green backgrounds.
Only in Mass.: Signs that say "Thickly Settled" when reaching a town
Only in Vermont: Yellow signs that warn of frost heaves.
Only in New York: The little green reference markers every 1/5 of a mile
Only in Delaware: Blinking green signals.
The little green reference markers appear every 1/10 of a miles, not 1/5. There are also virtually identical markers used in Vermont. As far as flashing green signals, I've seen them in Massachusetts as well.
Only in Massachusetts: Signs indicating that a lane ends by saying "Lane Drop."
Only in New Jersey: County routes numbered on a statewide basis (CR 501, etc.)
Also only in New Jersey: Two different two-digit interstates with the same number, I-95 in the Trenton area and I-95 for the New Jersey Turnpike. This one will eventually be fixed once they build the I-95/I-276 interchange in Pennsylvania.
Texas: "HIGHWAY INTERSECTION AHEAD" on a yellow warning sign in addition to any route markings near a junction.
California: Yellow school zone crossings.
Quote from: jp the roadgeek on December 15, 2012, 10:06:11 AM
Only in the Buffalo area have I heard an interstate referred to with the word "The" before the highway. Exit 52 off THE (pronounced thee) I-90 (what other I-90 is there?)
Must be a merger between "The Thruway" and "Route 90". Also, there is a NY 90 two hours to the east.
Quote from: dgolub on December 15, 2012, 10:58:44 AM
Also only in New Jersey: Two different two-digit interstates with the same number, I-95 in the Trenton area and I-95 for the New Jersey Turnpike. This one will eventually be fixed once they build the I-95/I-276 interchange in Pennsylvania.
You also have the western/eastern Turnpike spur in northern NJ both being I-95. I don't think there are any plans to fix that one.
Quote from: Steve on December 15, 2012, 01:32:27 AM
Quote from: agentsteel53 on December 14, 2012, 11:39:29 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on December 14, 2012, 10:13:09 PM
Quote from: EchoCharlieHotel on December 14, 2012, 03:07:36 PM
Only in California: Arrows that point down and to the left (right) to the start of the entrance ramp on FREEWAY ENTRANCE sign assemblies. At least, CA's the only place I've seen those. Any other places have them?
West Virginia.
I believe there are a few in Yuma, AZ as well - but they clearly were done by a CA contractor.
I thought I saw these in the Phoenix area too. Anyway, they're in the MUTCD now.
Nevada has had this practice for years on all freeways (except for Summerlin Pkwy in Las Vegas). It's a freeway entrance sign, with route shield(s), directional banner(s) and downward angled arrow--usually at least one on each side of the ramp entrance.
Quote from: dgolub on December 15, 2012, 10:58:44 AM
Only in New Jersey: County routes numbered on a statewide basis (CR 501, etc.)
And Iowa, and Florida, and California.
Quote from: Revive 755 on December 15, 2012, 08:20:58 AM
Quote from: theline on December 14, 2012, 05:17:43 PM
Arkansas: rumble strips inside the stripe. They drive me crazy.
Been done in Missouri at least once on US 61 between Hannibal and I-70.
Only in Missouri though will you see a road with 10' lanes and both rumble centerline and rumble edgeline.
Clearly you haven't been to Pennsylvania.
Quote from: jp the roadgeek on December 15, 2012, 10:06:11 AM
Only in the Buffalo area have I heard an interstate referred to with the word "The" before the highway. Exit 52 off THE (pronounced thee) I-90 (what other I-90 is there?)
You've never heard "The 405?" California.
Quote from: Steve on December 15, 2012, 12:55:23 PM
Quote from: Revive 755 on December 15, 2012, 08:20:58 AM
Quote from: theline on December 14, 2012, 05:17:43 PM
Arkansas: rumble strips inside the stripe. They drive me crazy.
Been done in Missouri at least once on US 61 between Hannibal and I-70.
Only in Missouri though will you see a road with 10' lanes and both rumble centerline and rumble edgeline.
Clearly you haven't been to Pennsylvania.
Quote from: jp the roadgeek on December 15, 2012, 10:06:11 AM
Only in the Buffalo area have I heard an interstate referred to with the word "The" before the highway. Exit 52 off THE (pronounced thee) I-90 (what other I-90 is there?)
You've never heard "The 405?" California.
How about The 408 in Orlando?
Quote from: roadman65 on December 15, 2012, 01:03:57 PM
Quote from: Steve on December 15, 2012, 12:55:23 PM
Quote from: Revive 755 on December 15, 2012, 08:20:58 AM
Quote from: theline on December 14, 2012, 05:17:43 PM
Arkansas: rumble strips inside the stripe. They drive me crazy.
Been done in Missouri at least once on US 61 between Hannibal and I-70.
Only in Missouri though will you see a road with 10' lanes and both rumble centerline and rumble edgeline.
Clearly you haven't been to Pennsylvania.
Quote from: jp the roadgeek on December 15, 2012, 10:06:11 AM
Only in the Buffalo area have I heard an interstate referred to with the word "The" before the highway. Exit 52 off THE (pronounced thee) I-90 (what other I-90 is there?)
You've never heard "The 405?" California.
How about The 408 in Orlando?
If he means people referring to "The I-90" in Buffalo, though, that's definitely different. LA usage is "the X" where X is the number--be it state, US, or I-. The 5, the 101, the 60, etc. etc... They never say "the eye four-oh-five" with the I- in it. (Do they? Been to southern California many times, heard lots of KNX traffic reports, never heard the "I-" included there or by locals in conversation.
Quote from: hbelkins on December 14, 2012, 10:13:09 PM
Quote from: EchoCharlieHotel on December 14, 2012, 03:07:36 PM
Only in California: Arrows that point down and to the left (right) to the start of the entrance ramp on FREEWAY ENTRANCE sign assemblies. At least, CA's the only place I've seen those. Any other places have them?
West Virginia.
I recalled seeing them in (Mesquite) Nevada as well.
Quote from: roadfro on December 15, 2012, 12:49:32 PM
Quote from: Steve on December 15, 2012, 01:32:27 AM
Quote from: agentsteel53 on December 14, 2012, 11:39:29 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on December 14, 2012, 10:13:09 PM
Quote from: EchoCharlieHotel on December 14, 2012, 03:07:36 PM
Only in California: Arrows that point down and to the left (right) to the start of the entrance ramp on FREEWAY ENTRANCE sign assemblies. At least, CA's the only place I've seen those. Any other places have them?
West Virginia.
I believe there are a few in Yuma, AZ as well - but they clearly were done by a CA contractor.
I thought I saw these in the Phoenix area too. Anyway, they're in the MUTCD now.
Nevada has had this practice for years on all freeways (except for Summerlin Pkwy in Las Vegas). It's a freeway entrance sign, with route shield(s), directional banner(s) and downward angled arrow--usually at least one on each side of the ramp entrance.
One of the disadvantages of threads like this: if you're not widely traveled, these things are more common than you think.
Something else I've only ever noticed in Texas, but could be more common than that: Interstate business loops with letter suffixes. I noticed a lot of them on I-20 west of DFW on my trip there and back in 2009. I think I recall them incrementing west to east.
True, I used to think New Jersey was the only state to have a second left turn signal head on the far left corner, until I visited Illinois. Then I noticed that California, also has two left turn signal heads with one on the far left as well.
Quote from: roadman65 on December 15, 2012, 02:09:36 PM
True, I used to think New Jersey was the only state to have a second left turn signal head on the far left corner, until I visited Illinois. Then I noticed that California, also has two left turn signal heads with one on the far left as well.
Arizona and Nevada have this too.
Quote from: NE2 on December 15, 2012, 12:50:08 PM
Quote from: dgolub on December 15, 2012, 10:58:44 AM
Only in New Jersey: County routes numbered on a statewide basis (CR 501, etc.)
And Iowa, and Florida, and California.
I'm familiar with Iowa's grid system for numbering county highways. Are there numbering systems for the other states mentioned?
Quote from: kphoger on December 15, 2012, 02:28:01 PM
Quote from: NE2 on December 15, 2012, 12:50:08 PM
Quote from: dgolub on December 15, 2012, 10:58:44 AM
Only in New Jersey: County routes numbered on a statewide basis (CR 501, etc.)
And Iowa, and Florida, and California.
I'm familiar with Iowa's grid system for numbering county highways. Are there numbering systems for the other states mentioned?
California has a rough alphanumeric system too. Florida's county roads are mostly former state roads that retained their numbers.
Quote from: kphoger on December 15, 2012, 02:28:01 PM
Quote from: NE2 on December 15, 2012, 12:50:08 PM
Quote from: dgolub on December 15, 2012, 10:58:44 AM
Only in New Jersey: County routes numbered on a statewide basis (CR 501, etc.)
And Iowa, and Florida, and California.
I'm familiar with Iowa's grid system for numbering county highways. Are there numbering systems for the other states mentioned?
Connecticut has a unique secret state route system that actually works in some instances by county.
400's: Special service roads statewide (ie. Bradley Airport connector extension, Hammonasset connector)
500's: Minor state roads in Hartford & Tolland counties
600's: Minor state roads in Windham, Middlesex and New London counties
700's: Minor state roads in New Haven county
800's: Minor state roads in Farifield and Litchfield counties
900's: Very short connector roads less than 1 mile (statewide)
Quote from: EchoCharlieHotel on December 15, 2012, 01:44:53 PM
Something else I've only ever noticed in Texas, but could be more common than that: Interstate business loops with letter suffixes. I noticed a lot of them on I-20 west of DFW on my trip there and back in 2009. I think I recall them incrementing west to east.
I think those are unique to Texas. Connecticut has a practice of numbering old alignments. For example, along US 1, you'll have Old Post Road #1, #2, #3, etc. Not sure how often they reset - either at county boundaries (which are otherwise useless) or within each town or city.
Quote from: NE2 on December 15, 2012, 02:52:23 AM
T-xxx is a state-maintained route inside town limits. These still exist, but now they drop the T.
There are still a number of signed T routes. They just put the T in front of the number (in rectangles and circle shields) instead of above it like they used to. The photo I posted is from Eastville on the Eastern Shore - there are two of those shields there and are the only two I have run into since I moved back to Virginia in 1995.
QuoteOnly in VA: No junction signs at state/US hwy intersections (they do have many at state/US hwy intersections with I-hwys).
While this IS the norm, some JCT signage does exist at a few primary intersections that are not freeways/interstates. This is on VA 45:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.vahighways.com%2Fva-ends%2Fva000%2Fva045_nt_06.jpg&hash=622b0bff9c5556e809ee2a23534e47ca5cd59078)
Oddly, what is more common are JCT signs with SR markers along primary routes, mostly in District 4 (Richmond region).
Mapmikey
Quote from: EchoCharlieHotel on December 14, 2012, 03:07:36 PM
Only in California: Arrows that point down and to the left (right) to the start of the entrance ramp on FREEWAY ENTRANCE sign assemblies. At least, CA's the only place I've seen those. Any other places have them?
Add Oregon to the list of states that have these types of assemblies at freeway on-ramps...
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi572.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fss166%2Fxonhulu%2FInterstate%2520Routes%2FI5KueblerBlvd1.jpg%3Ft%3D1283122133&hash=b8183fe2e1415a26b44966002cb8f983832f02d4)
Image from the "California-style freeway entrance signage makes its way to Oregon" (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=3389.0) thread on the Northwest board.
Too many posts to try to go back and quote from.
Re: Virginia: I've seen plenty of Txxx signs in rectangles, and there are getting to be a few JCT markers in the eastern part of the state.
Re: Rumble strips: Kentucky is using them more and more often.
Quote from: hbelkins on December 15, 2012, 03:57:28 PM
Too many posts to try to go back and quote from.
Re: Virginia: I've seen plenty of Txxx signs in rectangles, and there are getting to be a few JCT markers in the eastern part of the state.
Re: Rumble strips: Kentucky is using them more and more often.
I have seen plenty of states now using shoulder and center line rumble strips. Some use the road reflectors lined in an even row across the pavement as such, like here in Florida.
Nothing beats CA and NV with their ceramic buttons, as they act like rumple strips when changing lanes. If either CA used them exclusively or did NV, it would be a mention in this post, but it cannot.
I think though, Pennsylvania has one unique situation as the span wire guardrails have posts that are I shaped steel beams planted in the ground. Or do they? I do know NYS uses span wire guard rails in some places, but with rounded metal posts.
Also, speaking of NYS, I have only seen the box girder guardrails there so far. PennDOT used to use it on I-70 from Washington, PA to New Stanton decades ago, but last I know they might of changed it to Jersey Barrier. That may be a New York thing now.
Quote from: myosh_tino on December 15, 2012, 03:51:34 PM
Quote from: EchoCharlieHotel on December 14, 2012, 03:07:36 PM
Only in California: Arrows that point down and to the left (right) to the start of the entrance ramp on FREEWAY ENTRANCE sign assemblies. At least, CA's the only place I've seen those. Any other places have them?
Add Oregon to the list of states that have these types of assemblies at freeway on-ramps...
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi572.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fss166%2Fxonhulu%2FInterstate%2520Routes%2FI5KueblerBlvd1.jpg%3Ft%3D1283122133&hash=b8183fe2e1415a26b44966002cb8f983832f02d4)
Image from the "California-style freeway entrance signage makes its way to Oregon" (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=3389.0) thread on the Northwest board.
Yep, that's them. They've not made their way to Tucson yet (that I've seen), but, if they're in the MUTCD now, then it's likely a matter of time.
I remember first seeing them on a business trip to the LA area back in 1997. Nothing wrong with them, but those angled-down arrows just don't look quite right to this born-and-raised-east-of-the-Mississippi soul. Yet.
Quote from: EchoCharlieHotel on December 15, 2012, 04:17:55 PM
Quote from: myosh_tino on December 15, 2012, 03:51:34 PM
Add Oregon to the list of states that have these types of assemblies at freeway on-ramps...
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi572.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fss166%2Fxonhulu%2FInterstate%2520Routes%2FI5KueblerBlvd1.jpg%3Ft%3D1283122133&hash=b8183fe2e1415a26b44966002cb8f983832f02d4)
Image from the "California-style freeway entrance signage makes its way to Oregon" (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=3389.0) thread on the Northwest board.
Yep, that's them. They've not made their way to Tucson yet (that I've seen), but, if they're in the MUTCD now, then it's likely a matter of time.
I remember first seeing them on a business trip to the LA area back in 1997. Nothing wrong with them, but those angled-down arrows just don't look quite right to this born-and-raised-east-of-the-Mississippi soul. Yet.
The only difference between the Oregon assembly and a typical California assembly is the order of the signs and shields. California's typically puts the "FREEWAY ENTRANCE" sign on top followed by the route shield then directional banner and finally the diagonal arrow.
(https://www.aaroads.com/california/images680/north_main_st_08.jpg)
From the AARoads Gallery
It's also interesting to note that the California standard "FREEWAY ENTRANCE" sign (sign code G92-CA) is the same size as the MUTCD-standard one (sign code D13-3) but uses 5" legend while the MUTCD-standard uses 6" legend.
Quote from: myosh_tino on December 15, 2012, 04:48:47 PM
The only difference between the Oregon assembly and a typical California assembly is the order of the signs and shields. California's typically puts the "FREEWAY ENTRANCE" sign on top followed by the route shield then directional banner and finally the diagonal arrow.
(https://www.aaroads.com/california/images680/north_main_st_08.jpg)
From the AARoads Gallery
It's also interesting to note that the California standard "FREEWAY ENTRANCE" sign (sign code G92-CA) is the same size as the MUTCD-standard one (sign code D13-3) but uses 5" legend while the MUTCD-standard uses 6" legend.
The FREEWAY ENTRANCE assemblies used on nearly every California freeway on-ramp (or similar variant at toll road entrances (http://maps.google.com/maps?q=Rancho+Santa+Margarita,+CA&hl=en&ll=33.643313,-117.602956&spn=0.009986,0.01929&sll=33.640855,-117.603104&sspn=0.159776,0.308647&oq=Rancho+Santa+Margarita,+CA&t=h&gl=us&hnear=Rancho+Santa+Margarita,+Orange,+California&z=16&layer=c&cbll=33.643313,-117.603048&panoid=8BRzsfUjXHn0DwGE_q5nmg&cbp=12,301.94,,0,12.21)) that I have driven is perhaps the single-best feature of Caltrans-maintained freeway-class roads.
Curiously, while I have been in Oregon (though only in metropolitan Portland), I don't recall seeing those assemblies there (but then, I did not drive there at all).
Were it my call to make, such assemblies would be mandated by the MUTCD at
every freeway entrance in the United States.
Quote from: hbelkins on December 15, 2012, 03:57:28 PM
Re: Virginia: I've seen plenty of Txxx signs in rectangles
There were a few on US 460 in Windsor (Isle of Wight County). One of them (SR 1805) also had a shield, which did not have the T.
Regarding my previous post on the US 460 rumble strips, they go from New Bohemia (where the 50 MPH section begins) to where the speed limit drops to 45 in Suffolk, with a small break at a new intersection in Prince George County and through Waverly, Wakefield, and part of Ivor, but Windsor has them most of the way through town.
Quote from: cpzilliacus on December 15, 2012, 05:42:57 PM
Were it my call to make, such assemblies would be mandated by the MUTCD at every freeway entrance in the United States.
Define freeway. Are parts of the George Washington Parkway a freeway?
* Only in NE Illinois: Road name included as a separate tab on the junction assembly:
http://maps.google.com/maps?q=lake+villa,+il&hl=en&ll=42.413429,-88.071138&spn=0.006725,0.016512&sll=42.032432,-88.091192&sspn=0.215482,0.528374&hnear=Lake+Villa,+Lake,+Illinois&t=m&z=17&layer=c&cbll=42.413344,-88.071051&panoid=90dA-l6YPDozsJ8ui1uJQA&cbp=12,330.2,,0,10.29 (http://maps.google.com/maps?q=lake+villa,+il&hl=en&ll=42.413429,-88.071138&spn=0.006725,0.016512&sll=42.032432,-88.091192&sspn=0.215482,0.528374&hnear=Lake+Villa,+Lake,+Illinois&t=m&z=17&layer=c&cbll=42.413344,-88.071051&panoid=90dA-l6YPDozsJ8ui1uJQA&cbp=12,330.2,,0,10.29)
* Formerly only in Iowa: The interstate junction assembly on cross roads had a tab with 'Interchange No. x'
http://maps.google.com/maps?q=iowa+city,+ia&hl=en&ll=41.681434,-91.535522&spn=0.003385,0.008256&sll=41.681278,-91.535382&sspn=0.027212,0.066047&hnear=Iowa+City,+Johnson,+Iowa&t=m&z=18&layer=c&cbll=41.681278,-91.535394&panoid=fYJHwQFTlRBfIIG5gEaQFQ&cbp=12,5.47,,0,8.42 (http://maps.google.com/maps?q=iowa+city,+ia&hl=en&ll=41.681434,-91.535522&spn=0.003385,0.008256&sll=41.681278,-91.535382&sspn=0.027212,0.066047&hnear=Iowa+City,+Johnson,+Iowa&t=m&z=18&layer=c&cbll=41.681278,-91.535394&panoid=fYJHwQFTlRBfIIG5gEaQFQ&cbp=12,5.47,,0,8.42)
* Only in Missouri: 2/10 milemarkers on interstates through the whole state, not just the urban areas.
* I think Nebraska is the only state that has the distance signs following an interchange with the first line usually as '[Route shield] [City Name] Exit [distance]
* Only in Nebraska are the rumble strips on the approach to a stop controlled intersection called rumble bars and marked with a little yellow sign.
Quote from: cpzilliacus on December 15, 2012, 05:42:57 PM
Were it my call to make, such assemblies would be mandated by the MUTCD at every freeway entrance in the United States.
Not to change the topic, but since someone brought it up, I've never really seen the point of these signs, rather, I've just seen them as being extra clutter. Wisconsin doesn't even have it in their library of signs, however, I did see one rogue one at an on-ramp near downtown Milwaukee the other week. What do these signs tell the driver that they shouldn't already know based on other signs, pavement markings, and geometries? How does this sign change any of their behavior? Count me as one who hopes it
never becomes mandated by the MUTCD.
Presumably the sign 1) marks the point of no return, beyond which you cannot escape joining the route marked and/or the freeway, and 2) marks the beginning of any laws which may apply to freeways (minimum speed, maximum heights, no self-propelled vehicles, etc.), much like the chopsticks sign on British motorways.
Quote from: Scott5114 on December 15, 2012, 08:07:55 PM
2) marks the beginning of any laws which may apply to freeways (minimum speed, maximum heights, no self-propelled vehicles, etc.), much like the chopsticks sign on British motorways.
Problem is there are no such laws in many states, including California. That's what the white sign behind the 'freeway entrance' is for, if such restrictions exist.
Quote from: bassoon1986 on December 14, 2012, 02:29:25 PM
Only in Louisiana (maybe not totally): Are 3di's squished into 2di shields. I know other states do this, but we seem to have it across the board. I-220 and US 171 come to mind
The opposite happens in Texas, with 2di interstate routes placed within a 3di shield.
Quote from: DaBigE on December 15, 2012, 07:54:34 PM
Quote from: cpzilliacus on December 15, 2012, 05:42:57 PM
Were it my call to make, such assemblies would be mandated by the MUTCD at every freeway entrance in the United States.
Not to change the topic, but since someone brought it up, I've never really seen the point of these signs, rather, I've just seen them as being extra clutter. Wisconsin doesn't even have it in their library of signs, however, I did see one rogue one at an on-ramp near downtown Milwaukee the other week. What do these signs tell the driver that they shouldn't already know based on other signs, pavement markings, and geometries? How does this sign change any of their behavior? Count me as one who hopes it never becomes mandated by the MUTCD.
I have
never seen even one in the states I drive in the most (Md., Va., D.C., W.Va., Del., Penna., N.J., N.Y., N.C. and S.C.).
The reason I am in favor of such assemblies is I think they prevent at least some wrong-way incursions onto freeways - and - in areas where a driver is in unfamiliar territory, it makes it much easier to find the entrance to the freeway, in particular at night and in snowy, foggy or heavy rain conditions.
Only in Ohio:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dot.state.oh.us%2Fnews%2FPublishingImages%2FSpeedsign.gif&hash=ef82c16b5689caf3ea21622657d9855c87a9ad8e)
They can't just say "trucks"? These are posted on freeway mainlines, with traffic going by at full speed.
And yes, these still exist on non-Interstate freeways and expressways.
Only in Illinois, you have interstate entrance ramps from County, State, and US routes signed with the next sequential cities and the ramps from interstate to interstate signed with next major US city as control points.
Quote from: Scott5114 on December 15, 2012, 08:07:55 PM
Presumably the sign 1) marks the point of no return, beyond which you cannot escape joining the route marked and/or the freeway, and 2) marks the beginning of any laws which may apply to freeways (minimum speed, maximum heights, no self-propelled vehicles, etc.), much like the chopsticks sign on British motorways.
Those are both good reasons to pose such signs, though I assert that safety and "user friendliness" are even better reasons to install them.
The word "chopsticks" threw me for a loop for a minute (I would call them "enter motorway" or "begin motorway" signs). They are generally installed for the reasons you mention above. Here (https://maps.google.com/maps?q=kungsholmen,+stockholm,+sweden&hl=en&ll=59.335187,18.012385&spn=0.003059,0.009645&sll=59.346938,18.029948&sspn=0.00308,0.009645&t=h&gl=us&hnear=Kungsholmen,+Stockholm,+Stockholm+County,+Sweden&z=17&layer=c&cbll=59.335155,18.012202&panoid=LT0ZBIaCmVUD99YK1jlr3A&cbp=12,255.08,,0,16.52) is an entrance to the E4/E20 motorway (
Essingeleden) in Stockholm, Sweden.
[
The gantry in the image is a collection station for the Stockholm congestion tax cordon.]
Quote from: cpzilliacus on December 15, 2012, 09:08:42 PM
The word "chopsticks" threw me for a loop for a minute (I would call them "enter motorway" or "begin motorway" signs).
I believe "chopsticks" is the British roadgeek term for them.
Quote from: vtk on December 15, 2012, 08:59:01 PM
Only in Ohio:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dot.state.oh.us%2Fnews%2FPublishingImages%2FSpeedsign.gif&hash=ef82c16b5689caf3ea21622657d9855c87a9ad8e)
They can't just say "trucks"? These are posted on freeway mainlines, with traffic going by at full speed.
And yes, these still exist on non-Interstate freeways and expressways.
Actually...
(https://www.aaroads.com/midwest/indiana080/i-080_090_eb_exit_039_02.jpg)
This is on the Indiana Toll Road, with similar signage used between the Portage and Eastpoint toll barriers. This is the only major Indiana highway that uses this type of signage.
Photo courtesy of www.aaroads.comIronically, the Ohio Turnpike (also I-80/90) does NOT use that type of signage in the state known for using it (they did at one time, but they chucked those signs).
Quote from: cpzilliacus on December 15, 2012, 08:55:06 PM
Quote from: DaBigE on December 15, 2012, 07:54:34 PM
Quote from: cpzilliacus on December 15, 2012, 05:42:57 PM
Were it my call to make, such assemblies would be mandated by the MUTCD at every freeway entrance in the United States.
Not to change the topic, but since someone brought it up, I've never really seen the point of these signs, rather, I've just seen them as being extra clutter. Wisconsin doesn't even have it in their library of signs, however, I did see one rogue one at an on-ramp near downtown Milwaukee the other week. What do these signs tell the driver that they shouldn't already know based on other signs, pavement markings, and geometries? How does this sign change any of their behavior? Count me as one who hopes it never becomes mandated by the MUTCD.
I have never seen even one in the states I drive in the most (Md., Va., D.C., W.Va., Del., Penna., N.J., N.Y., N.C. and S.C.).
The reason I am in favor of such assemblies is I think they prevent at least some wrong-way incursions onto freeways - and - in areas where a driver is in unfamiliar territory, it makes it much easier to find the entrance to the freeway, in particular at night and in snowy, foggy or heavy rain conditions.
Isn't that what proper [upstream] route marker signage is for? The average driver doesn't care if they're entering a freeway, expressway, parkway, etc., they care about the route number and direction/destination.
I can see the benefit of such a sign at parclo location, such as what is shown in Figure 2D-14, but not as a mandate at
all instances of an on-ramp. What would be the point at a diamond interchange ramp or SPUI?
Quote from: vtk on December 15, 2012, 08:59:01 PM
Only in Ohio:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dot.state.oh.us%2Fnews%2FPublishingImages%2FSpeedsign.gif&hash=ef82c16b5689caf3ea21622657d9855c87a9ad8e)
They can't just say "trucks"? These are posted on freeway mainlines, with traffic going by at full speed.
And yes, these still exist on non-Interstate freeways and expressways.
Finally on July 1, 2009 the speed limit was raised to 65 for trucks. http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2009/07/ohio_truck_speed_limit_goes_to.html
Knowing how much Ohio hates 18 wheelers I imagine the state police give tickets at 66mph as they did at 56mph when the limit was 55. Yes I have seen a 56mph ticket written to a truck driver with my own eye, it may have been the drivers attitude that caused the ticket but none the less, it was written.
Texas is the only state where I've seen U-turns under underpasses leading from one frontage road to the other. They are actually quite handy.
Quote from: Road Hog on December 16, 2012, 12:36:34 AM
Texas is the only state where I've seen U-turns under underpasses leading from one frontage road to the other. They are actually quite handy.
These are used elsewhere, such as US 19 in Pinellas County, FL.
Quote from: nwi_navigator_1181 on December 15, 2012, 10:55:17 PM
Quote from: vtk on December 15, 2012, 08:59:01 PM
Only in Ohio:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dot.state.oh.us%2Fnews%2FPublishingImages%2FSpeedsign.gif&hash=ef82c16b5689caf3ea21622657d9855c87a9ad8e)
.........
Ironically, the Ohio Turnpike (also I-80/90) does NOT use that type of signage in the state known for using it (they did at one time, but they chucked those signs).
The Turnpike also used the more vertical version seen on ODOT roads as well (pic courtesy Steve's site); this example had been not only whited-out on the bottom for the truck part but then also altered at the top--it was likely a 60/55 before being changed.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.alpsroads.net%2Froads%2Foh%2Fi-275%2Fssl.jpg&hash=120926a5046839f5008654f45fde9554dcc92116)
The Turnpike similarly whited out their vertical signs to cover the Truck 55 part, but those signs went away when they changed to 70 last year. The Turnpike now just has standard signs for the 70 limit.
ODOT also uses assemblies of two separate signs, especially on expressway-type roads like US 30. This view of one is very oblique but shows the idea (http://goo.gl/maps/a0M9p)--it was the first one I could come up with. How sad that I knew exactly where to find it. Type in "Delphos OH", zoom to street view at almost perfectly the spot...sigh. Guess driving by there many times a year I've gotten used to that route.
The whited-out ones based on the example illustrated in vtk's post now look very strange; they either have the bottom third whited out or removed just below the dividing line, depending on ODOT region it seems. The result is a very nonstandard sign for a single speed limit; I know they were trying to save money but I wonder if it is totally compliant.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww2.uakron.edu%2Fgenchem%2Fspeedcrop1.png&hash=6b5f8d1de3fbcaa7f93201980b297c4837743ee7)
bottom removed at seam; seen sometimes
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww2.uakron.edu%2Fgenchem%2Fspeedwhite1.png&hash=22e283cadd96cb0551824bf31033c14ed8fe1a1e)
bottom whited out; seen more often it seems
Speaking of speed limits, does not Vermont have only a 50 mph maximum on non freeways? I know that the Super 2 part of US 7 does allow 55 mph, but that is a freeway.
The only other state that has a 50 mph maximum, is Delaware, but US 13, US 40, and US 113 because these are divided highways that only allow for 55 mph under Delaware law and 65 to freeways.
New Jersey, at one time, did not allow 2 lane roads to be posted at 55 mph, and had the same rule as Delaware. I believe that the Garden State, though, only let two 2 lane highways to have the 55 mph: NJ 54 and NJ 72.
Only in Florida:
(most obvious)
-A1A
(going out on a limb)
-Having at least one suffixed state road (SR 30A for example), yet having multiple suffixed county roads with the same number.
-At least one state route that is only a state route while concurrent with another state route.
-Very thick [height-wise] pavement markings and stop bar lines. I call it "80s pavement". http://goo.gl/maps/JwM4v
Quote from: florida on December 16, 2012, 05:44:35 AM
-At least one state route that is only a state route while concurrent with another state route.
226 and 437 both do this, the former because 24A was created and the latter because the rest is now a county road.
Quote from: Road Hog on December 16, 2012, 12:36:34 AM
Texas is the only state where I've seen U-turns under underpasses leading from one frontage road to the other. They are actually quite handy.
They are seen in other states, but are most common in Texas that they are referred to as "Texas U-turn"
Quote from: Road Hog on December 16, 2012, 12:36:34 AM
Texas is the only state where I've seen U-turns under underpasses leading from one frontage road to the other. They are actually quite handy.
I've seen two in Rochester, NY:
-NY 104 at Goodman Street
-NY 252 (not a freeway; this even existed prior to it becoming a divided highway) at NY 15
Quote from: roadman65 on December 16, 2012, 02:46:17 AM
Speaking of speed limits, does not Vermont have only a 50 mph maximum on non freeways? I know that the Super 2 part of US 7 does allow 55 mph, but that is a freeway.
US 2 has some occasional 55mph zones in isolated areas.
Quote from: DaBigE on December 15, 2012, 11:12:20 PM
Quote from: cpzilliacus on December 15, 2012, 08:55:06 PM
Quote from: DaBigE on December 15, 2012, 07:54:34 PM
Quote from: cpzilliacus on December 15, 2012, 05:42:57 PM
Were it my call to make, such assemblies would be mandated by the MUTCD at every freeway entrance in the United States.
Not to change the topic, but since someone brought it up, I've never really seen the point of these signs, rather, I've just seen them as being extra clutter. Wisconsin doesn't even have it in their library of signs, however, I did see one rogue one at an on-ramp near downtown Milwaukee the other week. What do these signs tell the driver that they shouldn't already know based on other signs, pavement markings, and geometries? How does this sign change any of their behavior? Count me as one who hopes it never becomes mandated by the MUTCD.
I have never seen even one in the states I drive in the most (Md., Va., D.C., W.Va., Del., Penna., N.J., N.Y., N.C. and S.C.).
The reason I am in favor of such assemblies is I think they prevent at least some wrong-way incursions onto freeways - and - in areas where a driver is in unfamiliar territory, it makes it much easier to find the entrance to the freeway, in particular at night and in snowy, foggy or heavy rain conditions.
Isn't that what proper [upstream] route marker signage is for? The average driver doesn't care if they're entering a freeway, expressway, parkway, etc., they care about the route number and direction/destination.
[
Emphasis added to your words above]
Consistency is good. Those Caltrans-style FREEWAY ENTRANCE assemblies make it consistently clear where the entrance ramp(s) are, and what direction they lead drivers to. Especially in the dark or when conditions are bad. They also benefit older drivers.
I don't live in California, and I have not (at least not yet) driven my own vehicle there from the Atlantic coast. So all of my miles are in a vehicle belonging to someone else. I know some parts of Los Angeles, Orange and San Diego Counties pretty well, but I found that more than once, those assemblies made it much easier for me to find my way correctly onto the freeways.
Quote from: DaBigE on December 15, 2012, 11:12:20 PM
I can see the benefit of such a sign at parclo location, such as what is shown in Figure 2D-14, but not as a mandate at all instances of an on-ramp. What would be the point at a diamond interchange ramp or SPUI?
Parclos
and SPUIs
may be the places where such assemblies are most needed. But why stop there? We are not talking about large overhead structures here.
My opinion is that if such assemblies are to be used, they should be predictably used at
all freeway and toll road entrances. Combine them with the consistent assemblies used by Caltrans to deter wrong-way entry, and I think there is significant public benefit.
Quote from: roadman65 on December 16, 2012, 02:46:17 AM
The only other state that has a 50 mph maximum, is Delaware
Don't know of any 2 lane roads in CT or RI that have a 55 MPH speed limit. Max I've seen is 50 in rural areas.
Quote from: swbrotha100 on December 15, 2012, 09:13:08 AM
In Arizona, one highway can inherit its mileposts equal to the mileposts of another highway it branches from. For example, if AZ 79 branches off AZ 77 at milepost 95, the next milepost on AZ 79 will be milepost 96. Many of the older state and US highways do this. This also explains the mileposts and exit numbering for I-17.
Alaska sometimes does that too. AK 3's mileposts at its southern end pick up on AK 1's mileposts, with 36 the lowest AK 3 milepost. North of Fairbanks, the Steese Highway changes number from AK 2 to AK 6, but the milepost sequence stays the same, while AK 2's mileposts reset to zero with the name change to the Elliott Highway. Most unusually, AK 1's mileposts south of Anchorage pick up on AK 9's mileposts -- including both the Seward Highway part of AK 1 east of the AK 9 junction, and the Sterling Highway part west of that junction. So when you travel south on AK 1, the mileposts descend from 124 in Anchorage to 38 east of the AK 9 junction, then start ascending again on the other side of the junction, from 37 near the junction to 171 in Homer. All this because Alaska mileposts follow named rather than numbered highways.
Alaskans also generally refer to highways by name rather than number, but so do Hawaiians (they both seem to consider route numbers a lower-48 thing).
Quote from: oscar on December 16, 2012, 11:19:33 AM
Quote from: swbrotha100 on December 15, 2012, 09:13:08 AM
In Arizona, one highway can inherit its mileposts equal to the mileposts of another highway it branches from. For example, if AZ 79 branches off AZ 77 at milepost 95, the next milepost on AZ 79 will be milepost 96. Many of the older state and US highways do this. This also explains the mileposts and exit numbering for I-17.
Alaska sometimes does that too. AK 3's mileposts at its southern end pick up on AK 1's milemarkers. Most unusually, AK 1's mileposts south of Anchorage pick up on AK 9's mileposts -- including both the part east of AK 1 east of the AK 9 junction, and the part west of the junction. So when you travel south on AK 1, the milemarkers descend to 38 east of the AK 9 junction, then start ascending again on the other side of the junction. (Alaska milemarkers follow named rather than numbered highways, and AK 1 goes through a name change at the AK 9 junction.)
Does Alaska 11 have mileposts all the way up to its northern terminus?
Quote from: Road Hog on December 16, 2012, 12:36:34 AM
Texas is the only state where I've seen U-turns under underpasses leading from one frontage road to the other. They are actually quite handy.
They also exist under Interstate 595 in south Florida.
Quote from: xcellntbuy on December 16, 2012, 11:52:07 AM
Quote from: Road Hog on December 16, 2012, 12:36:34 AM
Texas is the only state where I've seen U-turns under underpasses leading from one frontage road to the other. They are actually quite handy.
They also exist under Interstate 595 in south Florida.
There's some in Missouri:
* MO 367 freeway north of I-270
http://maps.google.com/maps?q=st.+louis&hl=en&ll=38.779995,-90.23486&spn=0.004997,0.008256&sll=42.032432,-88.091192&sspn=0.215482,0.528374&hnear=St+Louis,+Missouri&t=k&z=18 (http://maps.google.com/maps?q=st.+louis&hl=en&ll=38.779995,-90.23486&spn=0.004997,0.008256&sll=42.032432,-88.091192&sspn=0.215482,0.528374&hnear=St+Louis,+Missouri&t=k&z=18)
* US 40 at the MO 141 interchange:
http://maps.google.com/maps?q=st.+louis&hl=en&ll=38.642136,-90.508236&spn=0.00354,0.008256&sll=42.032432,-88.091192&sspn=0.215482,0.528374&hnear=St+Louis,+Missouri&t=k&z=18 (http://maps.google.com/maps?q=st.+louis&hl=en&ll=38.642136,-90.508236&spn=0.00354,0.008256&sll=42.032432,-88.091192&sspn=0.215482,0.528374&hnear=St+Louis,+Missouri&t=k&z=18)
* There were going to be a few along the joint section of MO 94/MO 364, but they were cut due to funding constraints.
Illinois has just one that I know of right now at the Elign O'Hare and Mecham Road:
http://maps.google.com/maps?q=Elk+Grove+Village,+IL&hl=en&ll=41.9922,-88.044643&spn=0.003369,0.008256&sll=41.9923,-88.045388&sspn=0.003369,0.008256&oq=elk+gro&t=k&hnear=Elk+Grove+Village,+Cook,+Illinois&z=18 (http://maps.google.com/maps?q=Elk+Grove+Village,+IL&hl=en&ll=41.9922,-88.044643&spn=0.003369,0.008256&sll=41.9923,-88.045388&sspn=0.003369,0.008256&oq=elk+gro&t=k&hnear=Elk+Grove+Village,+Cook,+Illinois&z=18)
There has been one proposed under I-290 at Woodfield Road, and I think the Elgin O'Hare Extension may get a couple.
Does anyone other than Springfield, IL have a one-way couplet that extends beyond the downtown area with a 'left side drive' setup, complete with a grade separated transition back to a traditional two-way roadway?
http://maps.google.com/maps?q=springfield,+il&hl=en&ll=39.806429,-89.673631&spn=0.002462,0.004128&sll=41.991777,-88.047309&sspn=0.026952,0.066047&hnear=Springfield,+Sangamon,+Illinois&t=k&z=19 (http://maps.google.com/maps?q=springfield,+il&hl=en&ll=39.806429,-89.673631&spn=0.002462,0.004128&sll=41.991777,-88.047309&sspn=0.026952,0.066047&hnear=Springfield,+Sangamon,+Illinois&t=k&z=19)
Quote from: cpzilliacus on December 16, 2012, 11:31:18 AM
Does Alaska 11 have mileposts all the way up to its northern terminus?
Yes. They start at MP1 about a mile north of jct AK 2, and end at MP413 on the south edge of Deadhorse. No mileposts for the last two miles to the terminus at Lake Colleen Drive.
Only in Michigan (almost): Michigan left turns.
Only in Illinois: centered exit tabs.
Quote from: national highway 1 on December 15, 2012, 08:33:35 PM
Quote from: bassoon1986 on December 14, 2012, 02:29:25 PM
Only in Louisiana (maybe not totally): Are 3di's squished into 2di shields. I know other states do this, but we seem to have it across the board. I-220 and US 171 come to mind
The opposite happens in Texas, with 2di interstate routes placed within a 3di shield.
Louisiana is the only state that can fit 5 digits (refering to the state route shields) on what most states would consider to be a 2 digit shield. I never knew there was such a thing until I started noticing Arkansas's shield sizes, then Mississippi's. Then after being on this site I read about them. Now Louisiana has what most states would consider to be a 3 digit shield. You could probably fit 7 or 8 digits on these signs! :sombrero:
What has shocked me so far about this thread is how many things some states have in common.
Quote from: CentralCAroadgeek on December 16, 2012, 05:17:10 PM
Quote from: pianocello on December 16, 2012, 02:45:17 PM
Only in Illinois: centered exit tabs.
Also in Oregon...
And Washington (centered text on a full-width tab). Centered tabs are less common but still easily found in New Jersey and Connecticut.
Quote from: pianocello on December 16, 2012, 02:45:17 PM
Only in Michigan (almost): Michigan left turns.
Only in Illinois: centered exit tabs.
Michigan left turns are on US 301 now on MD's Eastern Shore.
Kacie Jane is right about NJ. I have not been to the Pacific North-West, but I can also tell you that NYS has some places with centered exit tabs and have them photographed on my flickr page as well.
In fact, I believe that Georgia is one of a kind with its exit numbers being on the main part of the sign inside a rectangle just like the PA Turnpike interchange names and unlike the NJ Turnpike that has the exit numbers within the sign, but not in a separate box.
Quote from: cpzilliacus on December 16, 2012, 09:33:33 AM
Quote from: DaBigE on December 15, 2012, 11:12:20 PM
Quote from: cpzilliacus on December 15, 2012, 08:55:06 PM
Quote from: DaBigE on December 15, 2012, 07:54:34 PM
Quote from: cpzilliacus on December 15, 2012, 05:42:57 PM
Were it my call to make, such assemblies would be mandated by the MUTCD at every freeway entrance in the United States.
Not to change the topic, but since someone brought it up, I've never really seen the point of these signs, rather, I've just seen them as being extra clutter. Wisconsin doesn't even have it in their library of signs, however, I did see one rogue one at an on-ramp near downtown Milwaukee the other week. What do these signs tell the driver that they shouldn't already know based on other signs, pavement markings, and geometries? How does this sign change any of their behavior? Count me as one who hopes it never becomes mandated by the MUTCD.
I have never seen even one in the states I drive in the most (Md., Va., D.C., W.Va., Del., Penna., N.J., N.Y., N.C. and S.C.).
The reason I am in favor of such assemblies is I think they prevent at least some wrong-way incursions onto freeways - and - in areas where a driver is in unfamiliar territory, it makes it much easier to find the entrance to the freeway, in particular at night and in snowy, foggy or heavy rain conditions.
Isn't that what proper [upstream] route marker signage is for? The average driver doesn't care if they're entering a freeway, expressway, parkway, etc., they care about the route number and direction/destination.
[Emphasis added to your words above]
Consistency is good. Those Caltrans-style FREEWAY ENTRANCE assemblies make it consistently clear where the entrance ramp(s) are, and what direction they lead drivers to. Especially in the dark or when conditions are bad. They also benefit older drivers.
I don't live in California, and I have not (at least not yet) driven my own vehicle there from the Atlantic coast. So all of my miles are in a vehicle belonging to someone else. I know some parts of Los Angeles, Orange and San Diego Counties pretty well, but I found that more than once, those assemblies made it much easier for me to find my way correctly onto the freeways.
Quote from: DaBigE on December 15, 2012, 11:12:20 PM
I can see the benefit of such a sign at parclo location, such as what is shown in Figure 2D-14, but not as a mandate at all instances of an on-ramp. What would be the point at a diamond interchange ramp or SPUI?
Parclos and SPUIs may be the places where such assemblies are most needed. But why stop there? We are not talking about large overhead structures here.
My opinion is that if such assemblies are to be used, they should be predictably used at all freeway and toll road entrances. Combine them with the consistent assemblies used by Caltrans to deter wrong-way entry, and I think there is significant public benefit.
Until there is some hard numbers/research released on the effect of such signage, I think we'll have to agree to disagree. Many of the interchanges are turning into sign forests already, regardless of whether the Freeway Entrance sign is an overhead structure or not. We've gotten by just fine without them around here for so long, I say use the limited money on signage elsewhere. The wrong way issues we
are having cannot be solved by signage...rather they are of the inebriated driver variety. You could post a million flashing signs and they'd still not get the message.
True in the last post. I did not want to make too many quotes, so I started another post in regards to the last one.
No matter what road agencies do. No matter how many signs go up. No matter how simple you can make it for drivers, some drivers do not get the message. Overhead lane control with EXIT ONLY for ending lanes does not stop last minuet lane changes, especially with the dotted lines used in conjunction with the black on yellow exit only warnings. Even my first time seeing the dotted pavement markings in my 1988 trip to CA, I instantly figured out what those lines meant. Being that they were by themselves to the far right, made me realize something was happening to that lane I was in. Within a split second, I figured out my lane was exiting as there could be no other explanation to why those dotted lines were there.
What gets me is experienced truck drivers drive in exiting lanes and make their way back at the point of diverge. I used to operate a CB radio, so I know that truckers do indeed know the roads and most likely road geeks of the 80s were using these like I did then for great road conversations before internet came in to the scene.
All truckers that had radios, back in the day were able to talk freely about every instance and things about highways and actually did. Yet, in 1989 when I used to travel I-287 to work many CB gabbing truck drivers were suprised that the right lane of the four lane carriageway of I-287 NB at NJ 27 became the ramp to NJ 27 south and quickly weaved over into the main roadway.
In Celebration, FL it took many warning signs and flashing yellow lights and red flashing STOP signs along with overhead flashing beacons (now fully operational signal since Celebration High School opened nearby), and a large wall at the southern end of World Drive to inform motorists that the roadway ended and a retention pond beyond the pavement ending. This is all because many motorists would drive into the pond when a moron with a half a brain could figure out that the road was ending and intersecting with another road! I will even bet that to this day, the wall at the end gets crashed into spite everything including a 35 mph posted speed limit on World Drive.
Quote from: DaBigE on December 16, 2012, 06:02:55 PM
Until there is some hard numbers/research released on the effect of such signage, I think we'll have to agree to disagree.
That is
perfectly O.K.
Quote from: DaBigE on December 16, 2012, 06:02:55 PM
Many of the interchanges are turning into sign forests already, regardless of whether the Freeway Entrance sign is an overhead structure or not.
In my opinion, putting them overhead defeats the purpose of having them. Caltrans-style FREEWAY ENTRANCE assemblies should be on both
sides of every ramp in order to "show the way" for drivers.
Quote from: DaBigE on December 16, 2012, 06:02:55 PM
We've gotten by just fine without them around here for so long, I say use the limited money on signage elsewhere. The wrong way issues we are having cannot be solved by signage...rather they are of the inebriated driver variety. You could post a million flashing signs and they'd still not get the message.
I agree with you that many wrong way drivers are about drivers that are drunk or otherwise impaired. But I think that obsessively signing on- and off-ramps to and from freeways (as Caltrans does) are one way to
deter (
not prevent) wrong-way incursions (and the resulting head-on and frequently fatal wrecks).
Quote from: roadman65 on December 16, 2012, 06:42:13 PM
True in the last post. I did not want to make too many quotes, so I started another post in regards to the last one.
No matter what road agencies do. No matter how many signs go up. No matter how simple you can make it for drivers, some drivers do not get the message. Overhead lane control with EXIT ONLY for ending lanes does not stop last minuet lane changes, especially with the dotted lines used in conjunction with the black on yellow exit only warnings. Even my first time seeing the dotted pavement markings in my 1988 trip to CA, I instantly figured out what those lines meant. Being that they were by themselves to the far right, made me realize something was happening to that lane I was in. Within a split second, I figured out my lane was exiting as there could be no other explanation to why those dotted lines were there.
You quite probably have a much better "search pattern" (as they called it in my driver education class) than many other drivers out there.
Quote from: roadman65 on December 16, 2012, 06:42:13 PM
What gets me is experienced truck drivers drive in exiting lanes and make their way back at the point of diverge. I used to operate a CB radio, so I know that truckers do indeed know the roads and most likely road geeks of the 80s were using these like I did then for great road conversations before internet came in to the scene.
Those truck drivers are not unique in that obnoxious driving behavior.
Quote from: roadman65 on December 16, 2012, 06:42:13 PM
All truckers that had radios, back in the day were able to talk freely about every instance and things about highways and actually did. Yet, in 1989 when I used to travel I-287 to work many CB gabbing truck drivers were suprised that the right lane of the four lane carriageway of I-287 NB at NJ 27 became the ramp to NJ 27 south and quickly weaved over into the main roadway.
I remember those sorts of discussions on CB radios as well.
Quote from: roadman65 on December 16, 2012, 06:42:13 PM
In Celebration, FL it took many warning signs and flashing yellow lights and red flashing STOP signs along with overhead flashing beacons (now fully operational signal since Celebration High School opened nearby), and a large wall at the southern end of World Drive to inform motorists that the roadway ended and a retention pond beyond the pavement ending. This is all because many motorists would drive into the pond when a moron with a half a brain could figure out that the road was ending and intersecting with another road! I will even bet that to this day, the wall at the end gets crashed into spite everything including a 35 mph posted speed limit on World Drive.
I have never been in metropolitan Orlando, Florida - but I have driven in other parts of the Sunshine State, including Tampa-St. Petersburg and Miami-Dade and Fort Lauderdale. The number of
bad drivers in both parts of the state (both elderly drivers who should have their driving privileges permanently revoked; and in Miami, ultra-aggressive drivers, many of which were (supposedly) Cuban-American) was impressive in a
very bad kind of way.
I wonder how many of the drivers you describe above might be elderly and no longer qualified to operate a motor vehicle on the public highway network?
Quote from: roadman65 on December 16, 2012, 06:02:25 PM
In fact, I believe that Georgia is one of a kind with its exit numbers being on the main part of the sign inside a rectangle just like the PA Turnpike interchange names and unlike the NJ Turnpike that has the exit numbers within the sign, but not in a separate box.
Nope. That's what I meant in my post when I said "centered text with full-width tab".
Exit 171 in Georgia: http://goo.gl/maps/LU8gd
Exit 171 in Washington: http://goo.gl/maps/HOUUi
In fact, had I not just proven it wrong, I'd have been tempted to put this up as an "only in Washington". Full-width tabs are also common in Illinois and Maryland, but there they have the good sense to put the text on the right side (or left for left-hand exit).
Quote from: Kacie Jane on December 16, 2012, 07:44:20 PM
Full-width tabs are also common in Illinois and Maryland, but there they have the good sense to put the text on the right side (or left for left-hand exit).
Maryland? I cannot name even one (at least not currently).
Quote from: roadman65 on December 16, 2012, 06:02:25 PM
Michigan left turns are on US 301 now on MD's Eastern Shore.
Those are J-turns; you cannot go straight across US 301 like you can at a Michigan Left.
Quote from: cpzilliacus on December 16, 2012, 07:52:49 PM
Quote from: Kacie Jane on December 16, 2012, 07:44:20 PM
Full-width tabs are also common in Illinois and Maryland, but there they have the good sense to put the text on the right side (or left for left-hand exit).
Maryland? I cannot name even one (at least not currently).
I may have been mistaken. I think I was merely remembering their tendency to have far too much greenspace in their tabs, and my nonfunctional brain chose to visualize it as something else.
Only in California, cut out us route shields that say U.S. on them.
Quote from: silverback1065 on December 16, 2012, 09:07:14 PM
Only in California, cut out us route shields that say U.S. on them.
There's one in Nevada (really a sign error of the best kind):
https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=3959.msg86834#msg86834
But California has to be the only state where the standard route marker for every level of highway (Interstate, US, state, county) is a cutout. Other states (Virginia, for example) have some US and state route cutouts, but they are not the norm and, regrettably, are becoming less common.
Quote from: oscar on December 16, 2012, 09:21:35 PM
But California has to be the only state where the standard route marker for every level of highway (Interstate, US, state, county) is a cutout. Other states (Virginia, for example) have some US and state route cutouts, but they are not the norm and, regrettably, are becoming less common.
Oscar, I cannot think of even one cutout left in Virginia on a section of VDOT-maintained highway or street.
All cutouts that I can remember in Virginia these days are within the corporate limits of towns or cities.
Quote from: Kacie Jane on December 16, 2012, 07:44:20 PM
Quote from: roadman65 on December 16, 2012, 06:02:25 PM
In fact, I believe that Georgia is one of a kind with its exit numbers being on the main part of the sign inside a rectangle just like the PA Turnpike interchange names and unlike the NJ Turnpike that has the exit numbers within the sign, but not in a separate box.
Nope. That's what I meant in my post when I said "centered text with full-width tab".
Exit 171 in Georgia: http://goo.gl/maps/LU8gd
Exit 171 in Washington: http://goo.gl/maps/HOUUi
In fact, had I not just proven it wrong, I'd have been tempted to put this up as an "only in Washington". Full-width tabs are also common in Illinois and Maryland, but there they have the good sense to put the text on the right side (or left for left-hand exit).
Also, no longer the case in Georgia for signs erected since roughly 2008 (which is still a small minority of them right now); they've switched over to "normal" right- or left-aligned non-full-width tabs. Phased out at the same time, an actual Georgia exclusive: use of all-Series D legend on BGSes.
Quote from: oscar on December 16, 2012, 09:21:35 PM
Other states (Virginia, for example) have some US and state route cutouts, but they are not the norm and, regrettably, are becoming less common.
Indeed, Virginia may be the only state where older cutouts still exist in more than one or two locations. (Incidentally, there's one less cutout in Virginia now; the US 58 cutout in Franklin is now gone.)
Quote from: cpzilliacus on December 16, 2012, 07:02:41 PM
But I think that obsessively signing on- and off-ramps to and from freeways (as Caltrans does) are one way to deter (not prevent) wrong-way incursions (and the resulting head-on and frequently fatal wrecks).
I understand where you're coming from with that statement, but "obsessively signing" IMO, is a very dangerous term. The more over-used a sign becomes, the quicker drivers will learn to "tune it out" and the less overall meaning it will have. It's a problem/pet-peeve of mine I see happening with certain fellow designers and the PED XING assembly. The intention of that assembly was to warn of unexpected and/or high volume crossings, not every crosswalk you encounter in an urban area. It also increases the competition with other signs for a driver's attention (the span of which seems to be getting shorter and shorter with each passing year and new in-car tech gadget).
That is why I am more in-favor of selective use of the FREEWAY ENTRANCE assembly.
Quote from: Road Hog on December 16, 2012, 12:36:34 AM
Texas is the only state where I've seen U-turns under underpasses leading from one frontage road to the other. They are actually quite handy.
There are several along I-44 in Tulsa. They are indeed very handy.
Quote from: Scott5114 on December 15, 2012, 08:07:55 PM
Presumably the sign 1) marks the point of no return, beyond which you cannot escape joining the route marked and/or the freeway, and 2) marks the beginning of any laws which may apply to freeways (minimum speed, maximum heights, no self-propelled vehicles, etc.), much like the chopsticks sign on British motorways.
Or in the case of I-70 in Grand Junction, CO, the FREEWAY ENTRANCE sign is used to direct people onto the proper roadway to get on the interstate: http://maps.google.com/maps?q=81506&hl=en&ll=39.111349,-108.540287&spn=0.009623,0.026157&sll=38.997934,-105.550567&sspn=4.93428,13.392334&hnear=Grand+Junction,+Colorado+81506&t=m&z=16&layer=c&cbll=39.111444,-108.540381&panoid=uGaeuaHghskV396Zt2mmYA&cbp=12,146.7,,0,0
Just to the right is a dead-end road leading to the Visitors Center. Also notice the I-70 East marker using a diagonal-right up arrow. In this situation, the arrow should angle down or be a normal horizontal-right arrow.
In Oklahoma, many entrance ramps to freeways are continuous and become exit only lanes for the next exit. These are great because you have until the next exit to merge over, instead of having to worry about the entrance merge ramp ending before the exit lane begins. Is this unique to Oklahoma or do other states use this setup?
Quote from: Eth on December 16, 2012, 09:47:05 PM
Also, no longer the case in Georgia for signs erected since roughly 2008 (which is still a small minority of them right now); they've switched over to "normal" right- or left-aligned non-full-width tabs. Phased out at the same time, an actual Georgia exclusive: use of all-Series D legend on BGSes.
Several of the "normal" exit tabs on I-20 east near the Alabama line and I-85 northeast of Atlanta. It appears that the tabs are used now to accommodate the new "LEFT EXIT" sign specifications required by the MUTCD revision. Is that the case?
Quote from: bugo on December 16, 2012, 10:34:38 PM
In Oklahoma, many entrance ramps to freeways are continuous and become exit only lanes for the next exit. These are great because you have until the next exit to merge over, instead of having to worry about the entrance merge ramp ending before the exit lane begins. Is this unique to Oklahoma or do other states use this setup?
It depends on the spacing between the interchanges. But yes, other states use this setup. There are a couple in the Madison, WI-area I can think of right off the bat. If the interchanges are less than half a mile apart, generally WisDOT will utilize a continuous lane.
Quote from: roadman65 on December 15, 2012, 04:08:12 PM
Also, speaking of NYS, I have only seen the box girder guardrails there so far. PennDOT used to use it on I-70 from Washington, PA to New Stanton decades ago, but last I know they might of changed it to Jersey Barrier. That may be a New York thing now.
I spotted box beam guardrail in Virginia. Its used in the median of I-85/US-460 in Petersburg (the old Richmond-Peterburg Turnpike section). There appears to be some on I-95 in the area too.
Quote from: bugo on December 16, 2012, 10:34:38 PM
In Oklahoma, many entrance ramps to freeways are continuous and become exit only lanes for the next exit. These are great because you have until the next exit to merge over, instead of having to worry about the entrance merge ramp ending before the exit lane begins. Is this unique to Oklahoma or do other states use this setup?
Texas has some stretches where this is done. I'm thinking of I(H)-35, particularly in the Austin area, although I know I've seen it elsewhere. Austin also tends to have the exit ramp retain its own lane along the service/access/frontage road as far as the intersection or even the next freeway entrance ramp, so that there should be be less urgency to merge.
Quote from: DaBigE on December 16, 2012, 10:40:31 PM
Quote from: bugo on December 16, 2012, 10:34:38 PM
In Oklahoma, many entrance ramps to freeways are continuous and become exit only lanes for the next exit. These are great because you have until the next exit to merge over, instead of having to worry about the entrance merge ramp ending before the exit lane begins. Is this unique to Oklahoma or do other states use this setup?
It depends on the spacing between the interchanges. But yes, other states use this setup. There are a couple in the Madison, WI-area I can think of right off the bat. If the interchanges are less than half a mile apart, generally WisDOT will utilize a continuous lane.
Much of the T-Rex project completed a few years ago, where I-25 was widened on the south side of Denver, includes auxiliary lanes between interchanges as you describe.
Quote from: bugo on December 16, 2012, 10:34:38 PMIn Oklahoma, many entrance ramps to freeways are continuous and become exit only lanes for the next exit. These are great because you have until the next exit to merge over, instead of having to worry about the entrance merge ramp ending before the exit lane begins. Is this unique to Oklahoma or do other states use this setup?
I think it is not uncommon in urban areas--Topeka has it on I-70, for example. I am not totally keen on it because the lane that is gained and dropped between interchanges can easily be confused for a through lane (especially if lane assignment signing for the drop at the next exit does not begin immediately after the gain) and can thus lead to unnecessary lane changes.
Quote from: bugo on December 16, 2012, 10:34:38 PM
In Oklahoma, many entrance ramps to freeways are continuous and become exit only lanes for the next exit. These are great because you have until the next exit to merge over, instead of having to worry about the entrance merge ramp ending before the exit lane begins. Is this unique to Oklahoma or do other states use this setup?
In California, these are called an "auxiliary lane" and they are quite common here. In fact there is a current construction project on US 101 from route 85 in Mountain View to the San Mateo county line to add these auxiliary lanes in both directions.
Quote from: cpzilliacus on December 16, 2012, 09:38:40 PM
Quote from: oscar on December 16, 2012, 09:21:35 PM
But California has to be the only state where the standard route marker for every level of highway (Interstate, US, state, county) is a cutout. Other states (Virginia, for example) have some US and state route cutouts, but they are not the norm and, regrettably, are becoming less common.
Oscar, I cannot think of even one cutout left in Virginia on a section of VDOT-maintained highway or street.
All cutouts that I can remember in Virginia these days are within the corporate limits of towns or cities.
I can recall a cutout US-460 on I-85 as of 2008. May be dead by now though.
Quote from: Scott5114 on December 16, 2012, 11:55:50 PM
Quote from: cpzilliacus on December 16, 2012, 09:38:40 PM
Quote from: oscar on December 16, 2012, 09:21:35 PM
But California has to be the only state where the standard route marker for every level of highway (Interstate, US, state, county) is a cutout. Other states (Virginia, for example) have some US and state route cutouts, but they are not the norm and, regrettably, are becoming less common.
Oscar, I cannot think of even one cutout left in Virginia on a section of VDOT-maintained highway or street.
All cutouts that I can remember in Virginia these days are within the corporate limits of towns or cities.
I can recall a cutout US-460 on I-85 as of 2008. May be dead by now though.
But that's not an old one.
No, those (I think there are four total) are from the 1990s when 460 was moved onto 85. Most of the old cutouts are in the western part of the state.
Quote from: Takumi on December 16, 2012, 10:04:39 PM
Quote from: oscar on December 16, 2012, 09:21:35 PM
Other states (Virginia, for example) have some US and state route cutouts, but they are not the norm and, regrettably, are becoming less common.
Indeed, Virginia may be the only state where older cutouts still exist in more than one or two locations. (Incidentally, there's one less cutout in Virginia now; the US 58 cutout in Franklin is now gone.)
Hawaii had multiple old cutouts in the field (all at least 40 years old) last I was out there in 2009. Some disappear now and then, but since neither Hawaii's sign thieves nor its state or county DOTs (except on Kauai) are particularly efficient at removing old signs, there probably are multiple cutouts still out there.
Only in West Virginia for a limited time: guide signs featuring black Clearview legend on bare aluminum.
Quote from: cpzilliacus on December 16, 2012, 09:38:40 PM
Quote from: oscar on December 16, 2012, 09:21:35 PM
But California has to be the only state where the standard route marker for every level of highway (Interstate, US, state, county) is a cutout. Other states (Virginia, for example) have some US and state route cutouts, but they are not the norm and, regrettably, are becoming less common.
Oscar, I cannot think of even one cutout left in Virginia on a section of VDOT-maintained highway or street.
All cutouts that I can remember in Virginia these days are within the corporate limits of towns or cities.
There are still cutouts outside incorporated cities...
Within the last 3 months I have observed the Gordonsville cutouts are still present, plus US 33 east of Harrisonburg, plus VA 208 at Spotsylvania CH.
Going back 6 months there were still some in Hillsville and Pearisburg, plus the lone 42 cutout in Churchville, plus Highland County still has some.
I know of other locations of cutouts not in incorp places but I haven't been by them in a year to see if they are still present (VA 18, VA 63, and VA 227, for example).
Someone asked about the 460 cutouts on I-85 ... they were there Dec 7.
Mapmikey
Only in Ohio, when ODOT is too cheap to create a new BGS to accommodate a route shield properly...
http://maps.google.com/maps?q=canton+ohio&hl=en&ll=40.827547,-81.398591&spn=0.001181,0.00327&sll=41.537302,-81.641199&sspn=0.001168,0.00327&hnear=Canton,+Stark,+Ohio&t=m&z=19&layer=c&cbll=40.827547,-81.398591&panoid=XnpyUGtk10RCEI1PfYiipA&cbp=12,227.92,,0,0
This also happened at I-90 @ E.72nd St (OH-283) in Cleveland and I-71@ Polaris Parkway (OH-750) in Columbus, although I believe the latter has been fixed over the years due to sign upgrades.
Quote from: roadman65 on December 16, 2012, 02:46:17 AM
New Jersey, at one time, did not allow 2 lane roads to be posted at 55 mph, and had the same rule as Delaware. I believe that the Garden State, though, only let two 2 lane highways to have the 55 mph: NJ 54 and NJ 72.
Other 2 lane, 55 mph'ers in NJ:
NJ 70 has a 55 mph (which was raised from 50 mph several years ago), and Cape May County Route 625 has a mile or so stretch of 55 mph before entering Sea Isle City.
I'm going to argue US 130 South has a 1/2 mile, 55 mph stretch below the Commodore Barry Bridge after the roadway drops the 2nd lane. I would say it's due to a sign that went missing a few years ago...but then again, the entire sign assembly has been missing for a few years now with seemingly no attempt to reinstall it.
Another NJ-only thing that I'm having trouble recalling elsewhere - on the NJ Turnpike, GS Parkway and AC Expressway, there are NO reduced speed limit signs approaching the cash lanes of the toll plazas. In most cases, the speed limit is 65 mph on the roadways.
(Quite a contrast to Delaware, as one crosses the Del Mem Bridge the speed limit is reduced to an unmaintainable 20 mph almost a 1/2 mile prior to the toll plaza!
Quote from: oscar on December 17, 2012, 01:23:04 AM
Hawaii had multiple old cutouts in the field (all at least 40 years old) last I was out there in 2009. Some disappear now and then, but since neither Hawaii's sign thieves nor its state or county DOTs (except on Kauai) are particularly efficient at removing old signs, there probably are multiple cutouts still out there.
Mississippi has cutouts in about 3 different cities that I can think of offhand. probably more.
Quote from: J N Winkler on December 16, 2012, 11:28:59 PM
Quote from: bugo on December 16, 2012, 10:34:38 PMIn Oklahoma, many entrance ramps to freeways are continuous and become exit only lanes for the next exit. These are great because you have until the next exit to merge over, instead of having to worry about the entrance merge ramp ending before the exit lane begins. Is this unique to Oklahoma or do other states use this setup?
I think it is not uncommon in urban areas--Topeka has it on I-70, for example.
Also along I-135 in Wichita, southbound from 13th Street to Harry (ignoring the half-exit at Central); northbound from Harry to K-254 (again ignoring the half-exit at Central).
Quote from: J N Winkler on December 16, 2012, 11:28:59 PM
I am not totally keen on it because the lane that is gained and dropped between interchanges can easily be confused for a through lane (especially if lane assignment signing for the drop at the next exit does not begin immediately after the gain) and can thus lead to unnecessary lane changes.
Texas does a good job of striping the in-between sections with a dotted line, making it obvious that the auxiliary lane is not an added lane, such as here (https://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ll=30.240707,-97.736945&spn=0.003618,0.003449&t=k&z=18). Kansas, or at least Wichita, is terrible at this.
Quote from: DaBigE on December 16, 2012, 10:18:36 PM
Quote from: cpzilliacus on December 16, 2012, 07:02:41 PM
But I think that obsessively signing on- and off-ramps to and from freeways (as Caltrans does) are one way to deter (not prevent) wrong-way incursions (and the resulting head-on and frequently fatal wrecks).
I understand where you're coming from with that statement, but "obsessively signing" IMO, is a very dangerous term.
Your point is correct. How about
consistently signing? Consistency is usually considered a good thing when it comes to traffic control devices, right?
Quote from: DaBigE on December 16, 2012, 10:18:36 PM
The more over-used a sign becomes, the quicker drivers will learn to "tune it out" and the less overall meaning it will have. It's a problem/pet-peeve of mine I see happening with certain fellow designers and the PED XING assembly. The intention of that assembly was to warn of unexpected and/or high volume crossings, not every crosswalk you encounter in an urban area. It also increases the competition with other signs for a driver's attention (the span of which seems to be getting shorter and shorter with each passing year and new in-car tech gadget).
I actually agree with you. In most cases, the pavement markings and other signs (you speak of the pavement-mounted fiberglass or plastic signs, right?) should be enough (and as I understand it, pavement markings without the signs may be enough, though most places I have been seem to prefer signs and markings).
But the FREEWAY ENTRANCE assembly usually benefits drivers that do not know an area so well. So in my opinion, it is O.K. if the regular users ignore them - the regulars are not the segment of the driving population I want to inform and guide with those assemblies.
Quote from: DaBigE on December 16, 2012, 10:18:36 PM
That is why I am more in-favor of selective use of the FREEWAY ENTRANCE assembly.
I
respectfully disagree, for reasons stated above.
Quote from: many
...Freeway Entrance...
Freeway Entrance signs help drivers identify the freeway entrance, especially in situations with unusual ramp configurations, frontage roads, nearby business entrances or cross streets, etc. I think everyone can agree that the signs
are useful in
some situations, right? I've even been in rural situations where I can't easily tell which turn is the freeway entrance, and signs would have helped. One example that jumps to mind is
approaching US-71 along SSR-N near Carthage, MO; the first
left right after the junction sign is
not the freeway entrance, which is not obvious until you're right on top of it (and hopefully there isn't an impatient trucker behind you)–eastbound from SSR-M is even worse, but the
GMSV isn't as clear. So the question then becomes: where would you draw the line? I don't even know how I would answer that question.
Regarding the sign forest at freeway entrances, what signs do you speak of other than the one with prohibitions and maybe a few No Parking signs?
Quote from: Mapmikey on December 17, 2012, 06:57:57 AM
There are still cutouts outside incorporated cities...
Within the last 3 months I have observed the Gordonsville cutouts are still present, plus US 33 east of Harrisonburg, plus VA 208 at Spotsylvania CH.
Going back 6 months there were still some in Hillsville and Pearisburg, plus the lone 42 cutout in Churchville, plus Highland County still has some.
I know of other locations of cutouts not in incorp places but I haven't been by them in a year to see if they are still present (VA 18, VA 63, and VA 227, for example).
Someone asked about the 460 cutouts on I-85 ... they were there Dec 7.
Mapmikey
Where are the US 33 ones you mention? I drove the length of US 33 in Virginia a couple of months ago and didn't see any.
There are still cutouts in Big Stone Gap and in Highland County. Haven't been to Tazewell or Bluefield lately to know what's there and what isn't. There were also some WV 39 and WV 42 cutouts on their co-signed route when I drove it a few years ago.
Quote from: DaBigE on December 16, 2012, 10:40:31 PM
Quote from: bugo on December 16, 2012, 10:34:38 PM
In Oklahoma, many entrance ramps to freeways are continuous and become exit only lanes for the next exit. These are great because you have until the next exit to merge over, instead of having to worry about the entrance merge ramp ending before the exit lane begins. Is this unique to Oklahoma or do other states use this setup?
It depends on the spacing between the interchanges. But yes, other states use this setup. There are a couple in the Madison, WI-area I can think of right off the bat. If the interchanges are less than half a mile apart, generally WisDOT will utilize a continuous lane.
WisDOT added some of those auxiliary lanes between interchanges on US 10/WI 441 and US 41(I-xx) here in the Appleton area over the past couple of years, too.
--------------------
As for those 'Texas U-turns', there is one directly in front of the Post Office at US 51 (Stoughton Rd)/Milwaukee St in Madison, WI.
http://goo.gl/maps/2fe6J
US 51 (Stoughton Rd) runs north-south, Milwaukee St east-west. The 'U'-turn is under the bridge on the north side of Milwaukee St.
They're also 'S.O.P.' throughout metro Detroit, MI.
Quote from: DaBigE on December 16, 2012, 10:18:36 PM
That is why I am more in-favor of selective use of the FREEWAY ENTRANCE assembly.
Howabout using my avatar (a German 'autobahn driving rules begin' sign) as an MUTCD standard 'freeway entrance/begins' sign design, with the same design with a red diagonal slash ('autobahn driving rules end') for the opposite?
:spin:
Mike
Quote from: thenetwork on December 17, 2012, 07:57:48 AM
Only in Ohio, when ODOT is too cheap to create a new BGS to accommodate a route shield properly...
http://maps.google.com/maps?q=canton+ohio&hl=en&ll=40.827547,-81.398591&spn=0.001181,0.00327&sll=41.537302,-81.641199&sspn=0.001168,0.00327&hnear=Canton,+Stark,+Ohio&t=m&z=19&layer=c&cbll=40.827547,-81.398591&panoid=XnpyUGtk10RCEI1PfYiipA&cbp=12,227.92,,0,0
Actually, the older signs for that exit had OH 687 inside the sign. The newer signs have it external supposedly in the event that 687 is decommissioned so the shield can be easily removed without leaving blank space.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.alpsroads.net%2Froads%2Foh%2Fi-77%2Fn106.jpg&hash=0def5bfffa58bb805f23b502a6e80544ab8d22e8)
Quote from: mgk920 on December 17, 2012, 11:32:22 AM
Howabout using my avatar (a German 'autobahn driving rules begin' sign) as an MUTCD standard 'freeway entrance/begins' sign design, with the same design with a red diagonal slash ('autobahn driving rules end') for the opposite?
:spin:
Mike
I prefer green, otherwise a great idea.
Swedish National Transport Agency (I have posted these elsewhere on AAROADS):
Begin motorway (also means motorway entrance):
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.transportstyrelsen.se%2FVagmarken%2FAnvisningsmarken%2FE1%2FE1-1%2Fladdahem%2FE-11.png&hash=64b514493876da3b9e01eb64f46a68a69192c55d)
End motorway:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.transportstyrelsen.se%2FVagmarken%2FAnvisningsmarken%2FE2%2FE2-1%2Fladdahem%2FE2-1.png&hash=f9f2bb490e1341185a15be034ed6e550759cb6fd)
Begin "Super-2" highway ("Super-2" highways are relatively-speaking more common in Sweden and Finland than in the U.S.):
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.transportstyrelsen.se%2FVagmarken%2FAnvisningsmarken%2FE3%2FE3-1%2Fladdahem%2FE3-1.png&hash=52157a36b48048880b216ced61dce7dc3d8d281e)
End "Super-2:"
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.transportstyrelsen.se%2FVagmarken%2FAnvisningsmarken%2FE4%2FE4-1%2Fladdahem%2FE4-1.png&hash=c09b9e5c734305263ab7b15e081a987b0bcbee1b)
Quote from: hbelkins on December 17, 2012, 11:14:26 AM
Where are the US 33 ones you mention? I drove the length of US 33 in Virginia a couple of months ago and didn't see any.
There are still cutouts in Big Stone Gap and in Highland County. Haven't been to Tazewell or Bluefield lately to know what's there and what isn't. There were also some WV 39 and WV 42 cutouts on their co-signed route when I drove it a few years ago.
The US 33 cutout is at this intersection. GMSV shows more than one here but only one was still there a month ago...
https://maps.google.com/maps?q=Harrisonburg,+VA&hl=en&ll=38.369656,-78.773861&spn=0.000135,0.071497&sll=38.804821,-77.236966&sspn=2.735195,4.575806&oq=harrisonburg,+va&t=h&hnear=Harrisonburg,+Virginia&z=14&layer=c&cbll=38.369679,-78.77348&panoid=ex9xZcha4RgRv7Y-fvD9VA&cbp=12,313.9,,0,0
Also there are US 33 cutout shields on VA 231 NB approaching the circle and also at High St. as of a month ago. Also some US 11 cutouts in Harrisonburg south of downtown. Is the US 33 WB cutout at VA 42 gone?
Because the OP of the cutout question mentioned places where VDOT maintains roads, I left out other places I know still have some...
As of June 2012 there were still plenty of cutouts in Tazewell and North Tazewell (but not the US 61 shield) plus Staunton though I didn't go downtown.
Some (all?) VA 230-231 jct cutouts were removed in 2012.
The patched VA 91 cutout is not in GMSV which means I got a picture of it very close to when it was removed.
It has been >1 year since I've been to Bluefield, Haysi, Urbanna, Luray, The Plains, Falls Church, Alexandria so I don't know the status of those cutouts.
Mapmikey
The Urbanna cutout was still there as of last April. Next time I head that way I'll try to remember to detour to see if it still is.
any steel cutouts left, with the embossed border? in towns or otherwise?
Quote from: Mapmikey on December 17, 2012, 12:50:34 PMIs the US 33 WB cutout at VA 42 gone?
I didn't see it, and I was definitely on the lookout for cutouts in Harrisonburg.
Quote from: cpzilliacus on December 17, 2012, 12:23:53 PM
End "Super-2:"
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.transportstyrelsen.se%2FVagmarken%2FAnvisningsmarken%2FE4%2FE4-1%2Fladdahem%2FE4-1.png&hash=c09b9e5c734305263ab7b15e081a987b0bcbee1b)
I'd foresee that being misinterpreted by many drivers as "No Vehicles Allowed".
Quote from: cpzilliacus on December 17, 2012, 10:31:22 AM
Quote from: DaBigE on December 16, 2012, 10:18:36 PM
Quote from: cpzilliacus on December 16, 2012, 07:02:41 PM
But I think that obsessively signing on- and off-ramps to and from freeways (as Caltrans does) are one way to deter (not prevent) wrong-way incursions (and the resulting head-on and frequently fatal wrecks).
I understand where you're coming from with that statement, but "obsessively signing" IMO, is a very dangerous term.
Your point is correct. How about consistently signing? Consistency is usually considered a good thing when it comes to traffic control devices, right?
I agree 100%.
Quote from: cpzilliacus on December 17, 2012, 10:31:22 AM
I actually agree with you. In most cases, the pavement markings and other signs (you speak of the pavement-mounted fiberglass or plastic signs, right?) should be enough (and as I understand it, pavement markings without the signs may be enough, though most places I have been seem to prefer signs and markings).
With regards to over-use, I was referring to the W11-2/W16-7P sign assembly; pavement stencils of a similar message are rare around these parts (usually epoxy, grooved in plastic tape, or grooved in thermoplastic around here). I have a couple photos of some examples of such installations (post for a different thread topic). As for signs and/or markings, while I haven't had a chance to look up the specific statute yet,
I've been consistently told by WisDOT employees that [at least in the State of Wisconsin] pavement markings
alone are not enforceable,
with regards to specific lane designations. A sign must be posted in order for the lane use to be enforced.
Quote from: kphoger on December 17, 2012, 10:47:34 AM
Regarding the sign forest at freeway entrances, what signs do you speak of other than the one with prohibitions and maybe a few No Parking signs?
I was referring to the interchange overall, not just at the actual entrance. Aside from the signs you mentioned, I was including: route assemblies (worse the more multiplexed the highways are), Ped/Bike Xing, lane designation, service signs, ramp meter regulation/warning, etc. Many of those signs are placed multiple times for reinforcement.
Quote from: kphoger on December 17, 2012, 01:38:09 PM
Quote from: cpzilliacus on December 17, 2012, 12:23:53 PM
End "Super-2:"
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.transportstyrelsen.se%2FVagmarken%2FAnvisningsmarken%2FE4%2FE4-1%2Fladdahem%2FE4-1.png&hash=c09b9e5c734305263ab7b15e081a987b0bcbee1b)
I'd foresee that being misinterpreted by many drivers as "No Vehicles Allowed".
The "End Super-2" sign above is not regulatory. In the EU nations, those are usually white with a red border, or yellow with a red border:
That would be this (no vehicles, including bikes, allowed):
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.transportstyrelsen.se%2FVagmarken%2FForbudsmarken%2FC2%2FC2-1%2Fladdahem%2FC2-1.png&hash=19dcd0e4ec9187ab6a3605f9089c5a595511d1da)
Or this (no motorized traffic allowed):
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.transportstyrelsen.se%2FVagmarken%2FForbudsmarken%2FC3%2FC3-1%2Fladdahem%2FC3-1.png&hash=2ca4d566b41059c955a437da3c4fb5b1e7d579fc)
Or this (no motorized traffic with four or more wheels allowed):
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.transportstyrelsen.se%2FVagmarken%2FForbudsmarken%2FC4%2FC4-1%2Fladdahem%2FC4-1.png&hash=3c6ab38ab847ea24dcc5a04ef9b53a8f1aa83e2e)
None of those take the place of "DO NOT ENTER" (which never used in place of the above signs):
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.transportstyrelsen.se%2FVagmarken%2FForbudsmarken%2FC1%2FC1-1%2Fladdahem%2FC1-1.png&hash=c7119216ef3f186edfdc2aa1d397df4cd592977b)
Quote from: thenetwork on December 17, 2012, 07:57:48 AM
Only in Ohio, when ODOT is too cheap to create a new BGS to accommodate a route shield properly...
http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ll=40.827547,-81.398591&spn=0.001181,0.00327&sll=41.537302,-81.641199&sspn=0.001168,0.00327&hnear=Canton,+Stark,+Ohio&t=m&z=19&layer=c&cbll=40.827547,-81.398591&panoid=XnpyUGtk10RCEI1PfYiipA&cbp=12,227.92,,0,0
This also happened at I-90 @ E.72nd St (OH-283) in Cleveland and I-71@ Polaris Parkway (OH-750) in Columbus, although I believe the latter has been fixed over the years due to sign upgrades.
Fixed the link for you; removed search query string to make it more mobile-friendly.
Anyway, I call those 'afterthought panels' and they are also used for destinations and hospital / airport icons. Although when they do it with just a route marker or icon, they usually just use an independent-mount version rather than put the feature on a little green panel.
What's annoying is when brand-new signs immediately get afterthought panels. Can't they do a more thorough review of what needs to go on the signs before they are approved and fabricated?
PS – the OH 750 thing was fixed because the whole interchange was expanded and reconfigured.
Quote from: jeffandnicole on December 17, 2012, 09:22:34 AM
Quote from: roadman65 on December 16, 2012, 02:46:17 AM
New Jersey, at one time, did not allow 2 lane roads to be posted at 55 mph, and had the same rule as Delaware. I believe that the Garden State, though, only let two 2 lane highways to have the 55 mph: NJ 54 and NJ 72.
Other 2 lane, 55 mph'ers in NJ:
NJ 70 has a 55 mph (which was raised from 50 mph several years ago), and Cape May County Route 625 has a mile or so stretch of 55 mph before entering Sea Isle City.
I'm going to argue US 130 South has a 1/2 mile, 55 mph stretch below the Commodore Barry Bridge after the roadway drops the 2nd lane. I would say it's due to a sign that went missing a few years ago...but then again, the entire sign assembly has been missing for a few years now with seemingly no attempt to reinstall it.
CR-539 in southern Ocean County is signed 55mph.
that makes me wonder - what's the highest speed limit on a county route in the US? I'm guessing Texas has some 70 or 75 somewhere, but I don't think I've ever seen even a 65.
Quote from: agentsteel53 on December 17, 2012, 06:18:08 PM
that makes me wonder - what's the highest speed limit on a county route in the US? I'm guessing Texas has some 70 or 75 somewhere, but I don't think I've ever seen even a 65.
95. Or do you mean "legal."
I have one that I have seen. Kansas, has at its city limits in rural areas have the typical "X" CITY LIMIT signs with the city's reduced speed limit attached to its morings as well as in the other direction directly across from it a mileage sign with two control points leaving the city and the upgraded rural speed limit attached to one of its posts.
I have not seen other states practice this so far.
Quote from: kphoger on December 17, 2012, 10:47:34 AM
Quote from: many
...Freeway Entrance...
Freeway Entrance signs help drivers identify the freeway entrance, especially in situations with unusual ramp configurations, frontage roads, nearby business entrances or cross streets, etc.
Absolutely correct. Perhaps California has more than its share of "unusual" entrance ramps onto its freeway network (some examples in L.A. County that I am personally familiar with include
this,
this,
this,
this and
this).
And once we have so many of those "nonstandard" freeway entrances, perhaps it then becomes prudent to post them everywhere, even at relatively conventional interchanges like
this.
Quote from: kphoger on December 17, 2012, 10:47:34 AM
I think everyone can agree that the signs are useful in some situations, right? I've even been in rural situations where I can't easily tell which turn is the freeway entrance, and signs would have helped. One example that jumps to mind is approaching US-71 along SSR-N near Carthage, MO; the first left right after the junction sign is not the freeway entrance, which is not obvious until you're right on top of it (and hopefully there isn't an impatient trucker behind you)–eastbound from SSR-M is even worse, but the GMSV isn't as clear. So the question then becomes: where would you draw the line? I don't even know how I would answer that question.
Your example is a good one - FREEWAY ENTRANCE assemblies there would really help some drivers - I see lots of potential for confusion and wrong-way entry there, even though it is a simple diamond interchange.
Here is an example in Maryland that could use such signage (this interchange pre-dates the Interstate system, even though it is on "secret" I-595 (generally known as U.S. 50/U.S. 301)). I have seen a few "near miss" wrong-way entries here. Some miles west of that location, along U.S. 50, is
this strange and counterintuitive entrance onto eastbound U.S. 50 (motorists have to turn left (west) in order to make (what would normally be) a "right turn" onto the freeway).
Quote from: kphoger on December 17, 2012, 10:47:34 AM
Regarding the sign forest at freeway entrances, what signs do you speak of other than the one with prohibitions and maybe a few No Parking signs?
Sign forests near freeway entrances do not bother me at all.
Quote from: DaBigE on December 17, 2012, 01:51:03 PM
[snipped]
Quote from: cpzilliacus on December 17, 2012, 10:31:22 AM
I actually agree with you. In most cases, the pavement markings and other signs (you speak of the pavement-mounted fiberglass or plastic signs, right?) should be enough (and as I understand it, pavement markings without the signs may be enough, though most places I have been seem to prefer signs and markings).
With regards to over-use, I was referring to the W11-2/W16-7P sign assembly; pavement stencils of a similar message are rare around these parts (usually epoxy, grooved in plastic tape, or grooved in thermoplastic around here). I have a couple photos of some examples of such installations (post for a different thread topic). As for signs and/or markings, while I haven't had a chance to look up the specific statute yet, I've been consistently told by WisDOT employees that [at least in the State of Wisconsin] pavement markings alone are not enforceable, with regards to specific lane designations. A sign must be posted in order for the lane use to be enforced.
I think that's the law in Maryland as well. Generally, I see stenciled in markings (with no signs) on private roads and streets, where the owner does not have a clue about traffic control and traffic control devices.
Quote from: DaBigE on December 17, 2012, 01:51:03 PM
Quote from: kphoger on December 17, 2012, 10:47:34 AM
Regarding the sign forest at freeway entrances, what signs do you speak of other than the one with prohibitions and maybe a few No Parking signs?
I was referring to the interchange overall, not just at the actual entrance. Aside from the signs you mentioned, I was including: route assemblies (worse the more multiplexed the highways are), Ped/Bike Xing, lane designation, service signs, ramp meter regulation/warning, etc. Many of those signs are placed multiple times for reinforcement.
[
Emphasis added to your words above]
I think that is an important point - again,
especially for people not familiar with the freeway network. And FREEWAY ENTRANCE signs are the "last chance" reinforcement to make sure that drivers are going where they want need to go?
Quote from: jp the roadgeek on December 15, 2012, 02:41:17 PM
Quote from: kphoger on December 15, 2012, 02:28:01 PM
Quote from: NE2 on December 15, 2012, 12:50:08 PM
Quote from: dgolub on December 15, 2012, 10:58:44 AM
Only in New Jersey: County routes numbered on a statewide basis (CR 501, etc.)
And Iowa, and Florida, and California.
I'm familiar with Iowa's grid system for numbering county highways. Are there numbering systems for the other states mentioned?
Connecticut has a unique secret state route system that actually works in some instances by county.
400's: Special service roads statewide (ie. Bradley Airport connector extension, Hammonasset connector)
500's: Minor state roads in Hartford & Tolland counties
600's: Minor state roads in Windham, Middlesex and New London counties
700's: Minor state roads in New Haven county
800's: Minor state roads in Farifield and Litchfield counties
900's: Very short connector roads less than 1 mile (statewide)
New York has something sort of similar in that the middle digit of a reference route indicates which region it's in.
Quote from: agentsteel53 on December 17, 2012, 06:18:08 PM
that makes me wonder - what's the highest speed limit on a county route in the US? I'm guessing Texas has some 70 or 75 somewhere, but I don't think I've ever seen even a 65.
Wyoming is default 65: http://www.dot.state.wy.us/wydot/news_info/news_releases?template=tpl.newsDetail&newsID=937
Quote from: Alex on December 16, 2012, 10:37:43 PM
Quote from: Eth on December 16, 2012, 09:47:05 PM
Also, no longer the case in Georgia for signs erected since roughly 2008 (which is still a small minority of them right now); they've switched over to "normal" right- or left-aligned non-full-width tabs. Phased out at the same time, an actual Georgia exclusive: use of all-Series D legend on BGSes.
Several of the "normal" exit tabs on I-20 east near the Alabama line and I-85 northeast of Atlanta. It appears that the tabs are used now to accommodate the new "LEFT EXIT" sign specifications required by the MUTCD revision. Is that the case?
I looked through GDOT's signing manual (http://dot.state.ga.us/doingbusiness/PoliciesManuals/roads/smguide/GDOT_Signing_and_Marking_Guide_printerfriendly.pdf) and couldn't come to a conclusion on that (in all of the numerous diagrams in there, left exits are never mentioned).
Quote from: cpzilliacus on December 17, 2012, 12:23:53 PM
Quote from: mgk920 on December 17, 2012, 11:32:22 AM
Howabout using my avatar (a German 'autobahn driving rules begin' sign) as an MUTCD standard 'freeway entrance/begins' sign design, with the same design with a red diagonal slash ('autobahn driving rules end') for the opposite?
:spin:
Mike
I prefer green, otherwise a great idea.
Swedish National Transport Agency (I have posted these elsewhere on AAROADS):
Begin motorway (also means motorway entrance):
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.transportstyrelsen.se%2FVagmarken%2FAnvisningsmarken%2FE1%2FE1-1%2Fladdahem%2FE-11.png&hash=64b514493876da3b9e01eb64f46a68a69192c55d)
End motorway:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.transportstyrelsen.se%2FVagmarken%2FAnvisningsmarken%2FE2%2FE2-1%2Fladdahem%2FE2-1.png&hash=f9f2bb490e1341185a15be034ed6e550759cb6fd)
Begin "Super-2" highway ("Super-2" highways are relatively-speaking more common in Sweden and Finland than in the U.S.):
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.transportstyrelsen.se%2FVagmarken%2FAnvisningsmarken%2FE3%2FE3-1%2Fladdahem%2FE3-1.png&hash=52157a36b48048880b216ced61dce7dc3d8d281e)
End "Super-2:"
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.transportstyrelsen.se%2FVagmarken%2FAnvisningsmarken%2FE4%2FE4-1%2Fladdahem%2FE4-1.png&hash=c09b9e5c734305263ab7b15e081a987b0bcbee1b)
The latter two images mean 'begin/end *expressway* (like USA 'expressways' and can be two or more lanes, divided or undivided) and its driving rules'. Some countries require special vehicle stickers to be able to legally use both freeways/motorways and expressways and those signs are regulatory in that manner.
Mike
Quote from: agentsteel53 on December 17, 2012, 06:18:08 PM
that makes me wonder - what's the highest speed limit on a county route in the US? I'm guessing Texas has some 70 or 75 somewhere, but I don't think I've ever seen even a 65.
North Dakota has some 65 MPH county roads.
What's the highest speed limit on a dirt road? There's at least one dirt road in ND with a 55 MPH speed limit:
(https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2541/3805962707_98b7eb77fa_b.jpg)
In NJ, more specifically the GSP, exit numbers on a tab without the word "Exit" before the number
Quote from: jp the roadgeek on December 18, 2012, 08:11:49 AM
In NJ, more specifically the GSP, exit numbers on a tab without the word "Exit" before the number
Actually no more of that as they now have the MUTCD in them. The word "EXIT" does now appear.
Quote from: bugo on December 18, 2012, 01:07:02 AM
North Dakota has some 65 MPH county roads.
What's the highest speed limit on a dirt road? There's at least one dirt road in ND with a 55 MPH speed limit:
The default speed limit for county roads in Kansas is 55 mph, with no distinction made between paved and unpaved. According to the Wyoming DOT page that NE2 linked to, the default speed limit for unpaved county roads in Wyoming is 55 mph, and used to be 65 mph prior to 2011.
Quote from: bugo on December 18, 2012, 01:07:02 AM
....
What's the highest speed limit on a dirt road? There's at least one dirt road in ND with a 55 MPH speed limit:
....
My question would then be to ask what's the fastest folks have driven on dirt roads. I hit 80 mph on one in Alabama once during the 1990s, but it was a very smooth dirt road without the gravel and loose gunk you often see. I remember it well because I later learned that it was really stupid to go that fast because it was a low-lying county where the dirt roads often turn muddy fairly easily.
I don't think I've gone over 75 on a gravel or dirt road. A friend of mine from growing up said he once did 95 on a motorcycle on one.
Quote from: 1995hoo on December 18, 2012, 10:40:02 AM
My question would then be to ask what's the fastest folks have driven on dirt roads. I hit 80 mph on one in Alabama once during the 1990s, but it was a very smooth dirt road without the gravel and loose gunk you often see. I remember it well because I later learned that it was really stupid to go that fast because it was a low-lying county where the dirt roads often turn muddy fairly easily.
I hit 102 on an old US-81 alignment in Kansas. it was dead straight and level and I had about 5 miles of visibility, so I floored it. took me about a quarter-mile to drop to 55mph safely when I was one section line (a mile) away from what I knew was gonna be a STOP sign.
Quote from: Big John on December 14, 2012, 12:35:19 AM
Some lettered routes in Missouri have a number after the letter(s). And unlike in Wisconsin, lettered routes in Missouri are secondary state highways rather than county highways.
I would like to see a letter-number Missouri.
in Iowa, the county routes used to be solely letters, just like in Wisconsin, but now they are a letter-number system.
(//www.aaroads.com/shields/img/IA/IA19560091i1.jpg)
(//www.aaroads.com/shields/img/IA/IA19500351i1.jpg)
Quote from: Kacie Jane on December 16, 2012, 05:21:34 PM
Quote from: CentralCAroadgeek on December 16, 2012, 05:17:10 PM
Quote from: pianocello on December 16, 2012, 02:45:17 PM
Only in Illinois: centered exit tabs.
Also in Oregon...
And Washington (centered text on a full-width tab). Centered tabs are less common but still easily found in New Jersey and Connecticut.
the California exit-numbering experiment of 1971 featured centered tabs. Many survive.
Quote from: agentsteel53 on December 18, 2012, 12:07:36 PM
Quote from: Kacie Jane on December 16, 2012, 05:21:34 PM
Quote from: CentralCAroadgeek on December 16, 2012, 05:17:10 PM
Quote from: pianocello on December 16, 2012, 02:45:17 PM
Only in Illinois: centered exit tabs.
Also in Oregon...
And Washington (centered text on a full-width tab). Centered tabs are less common but still easily found in New Jersey and Connecticut.
the California exit-numbering experiment of 1971 featured centered tabs. Many survive.
A lot of states used to have centered EXIT tabs. Massachusetts had them until the mid-1980s.
Only in Illinois do they use the overhead BGS gantries (which cross over the entire roadway) whose side mounts have the shape similar to the Hancock Tower in Chicago.
Quote from: agentsteel53 on December 18, 2012, 12:02:47 PM
Quote from: Big John on December 14, 2012, 12:35:19 AM
Some lettered routes in Missouri have a number after the letter(s). And unlike in Wisconsin, lettered routes in Missouri are secondary state highways rather than county highways.
I would like to see a letter-number Missouri.
I would too. I've never seen one, nor can I find any reference to their existence online.
Quote from: kphoger on December 18, 2012, 04:29:51 PM
Quote from: agentsteel53 on December 18, 2012, 12:02:47 PM
Quote from: Big John on December 14, 2012, 12:35:19 AM
Some lettered routes in Missouri have a number after the letter(s). And unlike in Wisconsin, lettered routes in Missouri are secondary state highways rather than county highways.
I would like to see a letter-number Missouri.
I would too. I've never seen one, nor can I find any reference to their existence online.
I had a relative that lived on a highway UU-8 in Missouri, so I had to look into this. Agreed it was hard to find as it looks like those are farm roads and appear on "paper" only as they are marked as another local road.
Record of its existence and the road with a different name: http://www.loopnet.com/Property-Record/Farm-Road-Uu-8-Chadwick-MO-65629/BZG0uFg3w/Maps/
With those being administrative roads only, I may have to take back my statement. Sorry. :-(
Quote from: kphoger on December 18, 2012, 10:29:37 AM
Quote from: bugo on December 18, 2012, 01:07:02 AM
North Dakota has some 65 MPH county roads.
What's the highest speed limit on a dirt road? There's at least one dirt road in ND with a 55 MPH speed limit:
The default speed limit for county roads in Kansas is 55 mph, with no distinction made between paved and unpaved. According to the Wyoming DOT page that NE2 linked to, the default speed limit for unpaved county roads in Wyoming is 55 mph, and used to be 65 mph prior to 2011.
Iowa also seems to be a default 55 - and I may have even seen it posted. Fastest I've gone is 65-70.
Quote from: PHLBOS on December 18, 2012, 01:00:45 PM
Quote from: agentsteel53 on December 18, 2012, 12:07:36 PM
Quote from: Kacie Jane on December 16, 2012, 05:21:34 PM
Quote from: CentralCAroadgeek on December 16, 2012, 05:17:10 PM
Quote from: pianocello on December 16, 2012, 02:45:17 PM
Only in Illinois: centered exit tabs.
Also in Oregon...
And Washington (centered text on a full-width tab). Centered tabs are less common but still easily found in New Jersey and Connecticut.
the California exit-numbering experiment of 1971 featured centered tabs. Many survive.
A lot of states used to have centered EXIT tabs. Massachusetts had them until the mid-1980s.
Massachusetts started replacing centered tabs with right-side ones when exit numbers were added to signs along the Peabody to Salisbury section of I-95 in 1985. Centered tabs were replaced on other Interstates and freeways as guide signs were replaced beginning in the late 1980s.
IIRC, the last section of freeway in Massachusetts to have the centered tabs replaced with right (and left) justified ones was Route 140 between Taunton and New Bedford, which was last re-signed in 2006.
Quote from: Big John on December 18, 2012, 05:07:14 PM
Quote from: kphoger on December 18, 2012, 04:29:51 PM
Quote from: agentsteel53 on December 18, 2012, 12:02:47 PM
Quote from: Big John on December 14, 2012, 12:35:19 AM
Some lettered routes in Missouri have a number after the letter(s). And unlike in Wisconsin, lettered routes in Missouri are secondary state highways rather than county highways.
I would like to see a letter-number Missouri.
I would too. I've never seen one, nor can I find any reference to their existence online.
I had a relative that lived on a highway UU-8 in Missouri, so I had to look into this. Agreed it was hard to find as it looks like those are farm roads and appear on "paper" only as they are marked as another local road.
Record of its existence and the road with a different name: http://www.loopnet.com/Property-Record/Farm-Road-Uu-8-Chadwick-MO-65629/BZG0uFg3w/Maps/
With those being administrative roads only, I may have to take back my statement. Sorry. :-(
Yeah, that's not a state highway, just a local road. Its name comes from its proximity to SSR-UU. See my post far upthread regarding this very topic: https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=8252.msg190571#msg190571 (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=8252.msg190571#msg190571).
Only in CT where they detest the shared center turn lane.
Quote from: roadman on December 18, 2012, 06:59:52 PM
Quote from: PHLBOS on December 18, 2012, 01:00:45 PM
Quote from: agentsteel53 on December 18, 2012, 12:07:36 PM
Quote from: Kacie Jane on December 16, 2012, 05:21:34 PM
Quote from: CentralCAroadgeek on December 16, 2012, 05:17:10 PM
Quote from: pianocello on December 16, 2012, 02:45:17 PM
Only in Illinois: centered exit tabs.
Also in Oregon...
And Washington (centered text on a full-width tab). Centered tabs are less common but still easily found in New Jersey and Connecticut.
the California exit-numbering experiment of 1971 featured centered tabs. Many survive.
A lot of states used to have centered EXIT tabs. Massachusetts had them until the mid-1980s.
Massachusetts started replacing centered tabs with right-side ones when exit numbers were added to signs along the Peabody to Salisbury section of I-95 in 1985. Centered tabs were replaced on other Interstates and freeways as guide signs were replaced beginning in the late 1980s.
IIRC, the last section of freeway in Massachusetts to have the centered tabs replaced with right (and left) justified ones was Route 140 between Taunton and New Bedford, which was last re-signed in 2006.
The Super-2 stretch of MA-2 between Erving and Athol still had all it's 30 year old center-tab BGSs until just last year when they were replaced with new right-side tabs.
CT still has a lot of centred tab signs. Pretty much anything button copy in CT has centered tabs. Almost all of I-395, CT-2, CT-11, CT-9, and the eastern stretches of I-95.
Louisiana has center-tab exits along I-110 North, between LA 19 and US 61. The exit for US 61 is a split exit, so the 1-mile sign at LA 19 has US 61 as a center-tab.
In Oregon - the use of "DO NOT PASS" signs on the left side of the road, instead of the "NO PASSING ZONE" sign which is not used.
Also, the "Cars Trucks Campers Buses - Unlawful to Use Left Lanes Except when Passing" signs:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/raymondyue/6043975627/
Quote from: sp_redelectric on December 19, 2012, 01:43:24 AM
In Oregon - the use of "DO NOT PASS" signs on the left side of the road, instead of the "NO PASSING ZONE" sign which is not used.
Also, the "Cars Trucks Campers Buses - Unlawful to Use Left Lanes Except when Passing" signs:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/raymondyue/6043975627/
If I'm not mistaken, California also uses "DO NOT PASS" signs instead of the pennant-shaped "NO PASSING ZONE".
Also, the photo you linked to says trucks, campers, trailers and buses can't use the left lane except to pass. Cars are not bound by this rule based on the photo. California is a little less restrictive in that only trucks and cars towing trailers are restricted to the right lane except to pass. https://www.google.com/maps?ll=39.466995,-120.003735&spn=0.000311,0.000453&t=h&z=21&layer=c&cbll=39.466995,-120.003735&panoid=EEG241hzFnenSeOCblkv7Q&cbp=12,250.78,,2,1.7
Quote from: myosh_tino on December 19, 2012, 03:20:21 AM
If I'm not mistaken, California also uses "DO NOT PASS" signs instead of the pennant-shaped "NO PASSING ZONE".
there's places in CA which use both.
I do not know if this is only in one state, being New Jersey, but it seems to me that the Garden State has a law written into the books that prohibits trucks in the left lane on carriageways with three or more lanes.
I know NY, CT, and even FL now have them on three or more laned freeways, but New Jersey seems to implement them on arterials as well. It leads me to believe that it is law, but then it could be a guide.
Anyway, it seems that NJ is the only state, that I have seen, that has this particular default based on this observation. In Florida, six lane freeways are new as to most states as many have had (and still do have) four lane freeways statewide up until the 1980's or around. Some had small urban sections built in the 70s and I believe that in Pennsylvania, I-81 between PA 581 and I-83 was the first section in the commonwealth to have a six lane freeway.
New Jersey and New York, and maybe Connecticut along with California and Chicagoland and possibly some other urban stretches of highway were the first to have six or more lane freeways or arterials.
Quote from: roadman on December 18, 2012, 06:59:52 PMMassachusetts started replacing centered tabs with right-side ones when exit numbers were added to signs along the Peabody to Salisbury section of I-95 in 1985.
Actually, the first BGS' w/the right-side Exit tabs appeared on I-95 in 1987/1988 as part of the final extension to MA 128 project. During the summers of '87 & '88; I worked at a land surveying/civil engineering firm along US 1 northbound in Danvers and remember seeing those new signs being erected along I-95. The remaining BGS from Danvers to Newburyport (MA 113) had the exit tabs retrofitted on the centers of the existing mid-70s-vintage BGS'. These would all be replaced during the mid-1990s w/the right-side mounted tabs.
The mid-70s-vintage BGS' from Salisbury (MA 110) to the NH State Line already had center-mounted exit tabs on them w/the exit numbers blank. The DPW simply just added the numbers onto those tabs. Again, these would all be replaced during the mid-1990s w/the right-side mounted tabs.
Quote from: Beeper1 on December 18, 2012, 11:58:46 PMCT still has a lot of centred tab signs. Pretty much anything button copy in CT has centered tabs. Almost all of I-395, CT-2, CT-11, CT-9, and the eastern stretches of I-95.
Stretches of I-84 & 691 have them as well in areas where older BGS' haven't been replaced yet.
Quote from: roadman65 on December 19, 2012, 09:17:51 AM
I do not know if this is only in one state, being New Jersey, but it seems to me that the Garden State has a law written into the books that prohibits trucks in the left lane on carriageways with three or more lanes.
I know NY, CT, and even FL now have them on three or more laned freeways, but New Jersey seems to implement them on arterials as well. It leads me to believe that it is law, but then it could be a guide.
Anyway, it seems that NJ is the only state, that I have seen, that has this particular default based on this observation. In Florida, six lane freeways are new as to most states as many have had (and still do have) four lane freeways statewide up until the 1980's or around. Some had small urban sections built in the 70s and I believe that in Pennsylvania, I-81 between PA 581 and I-83 was the first section in the commonwealth to have a six lane freeway.
New Jersey and New York, and maybe Connecticut along with California and Chicagoland and possibly some other urban stretches of highway were the first to have six or more lane freeways or arterials.
I've also seen truck-left lane prohibitions along Massachusetts highways 6-lanes & wider. As a matter of act, along 8-lane stretches of I-93 & I-95; the left lane prohibition includes the
4 innermost lanes.
Quote from: roadman65 on December 19, 2012, 09:17:51 AM
I do not know if this is only in one state, being New Jersey, but it seems to me that the Garden State has a law written into the books that prohibits trucks in the left lane on carriageways with three or more lanes.
I know NY, CT, and even FL now have them on three or more laned freeways, but New Jersey seems to implement them on arterials as well. It leads me to believe that it is law, but then it could be a guide.
Anyway, it seems that NJ is the only state, that I have seen, that has this particular default based on this observation.
I believe it's the rule rather than the exception in most states that trucks are banned from the left lane on roadways of 3 or more lanes.
In some states (ie: Delaware), trucks are only permitted in the right 2 lanes, regardless of the number of lanes on the highway. I-95 used to have signs posted to this effect. However, in the short 9 mile stretch of 4 or 5 lane I-95, there's a median service plaza and a split for the toll plaza (heading southbound) or the 95/295 split (heading Northbound) so trucks are commonly found in all lanes of 95 anyway.
On the NJ Turnpike, even though the outer lanes are known as the truck lanes, trucks are still prohibited from the left lane. Thus, out of the 6 (or 7) lanes heading in one direction, trucks are limited to only 2 of those lanes.
Quote from: myosh_tino on December 19, 2012, 03:20:21 AM
Also, the photo you linked to says trucks, campers, trailers and buses can't use the left lane except to pass.
Yeah, I was up late last night, it's "trucks, trailers, campers, buses" - NOT "cars". And I was referring specifically to the style of sign, not the law itself. California uses a different sign, and Washington is different altogether as the law (as written, not necessarily as ignored by most people) is more restrictive than Oregon and California.
Quote from: doofy103 on December 18, 2012, 09:31:18 PM
Only in CT where they detest the shared center turn lane.
Hartford has installed several lately, as on Locust Street: http://goo.gl/maps/YhQdC
In NY I've only seen "not trucks/buses/trailers left lane" on the Thruway; I can't remember if it appears downstate or not.
Quote from: deanej on December 19, 2012, 12:45:11 PM
In NY I've only seen "not trucks/buses/trailers left lane" on the Thruway; I can't remember if it appears downstate or not.
I believe such signs exist along I-684 and protions of I-287 (CWE section); I'll be passing through there later tonight so I can confirm.
Had forgotten about signs for the late 1980s I-95/128 interchange project (which was also referred to as the "Task A" contract).
Thanks for the clarification.
Quote from: agentsteel53 on December 19, 2012, 09:15:38 AM
Quote from: myosh_tino on December 19, 2012, 03:20:21 AM
If I'm not mistaken, California also uses "DO NOT PASS" signs instead of the pennant-shaped "NO PASSING ZONE".
there's places in CA which use both.
Seen them both in CT as well. DO NOT PASS is black lettering on white background.
QuoteOnly in CT where they detest the shared center turn lane.
Hartford has installed several lately, as on Locust Street: http://goo.gl/maps/YhQdC
Seen them on East Main St. in Meriden too west of I-91/CT 15. Always called them "suicide lanes"
PA uses DO NOT PASS where it's not obvious, or where you used to be able to pass but can't anymore.
For example: Academy Road in Philadelphia north of Woodhaven. It has DO NOT PASS signs in the two-lane area. It was restriped with a parking lane sometime since 1970 (Historic Aerials jumps from 1970 to 2000s).
Another example: rural two-lane roads where you could shortly pass into the opposing traffic. Some have been removed around where I am because of bad sight distance.
Quote from: roadman65 on December 19, 2012, 09:17:51 AM
I do not know if this is only in one state, being New Jersey, but it seems to me that the Garden State has a law written into the books that prohibits trucks in the left lane on carriageways with three or more lanes.
I know NY, CT, and even FL now have them on three or more laned freeways, but New Jersey seems to implement them on arterials as well. It leads me to believe that it is law, but then it could be a guide.
Anyway, it seems that NJ is the only state, that I have seen, that has this particular default based on this observation. In Florida, six lane freeways are new as to most states as many have had (and still do have) four lane freeways statewide up until the 1980's or around. Some had small urban sections built in the 70s and I believe that in Pennsylvania, I-81 between PA 581 and I-83 was the first section in the commonwealth to have a six lane freeway.
Add to that the portion of I-35 in Texas between Temple and San Antonio that has been three-laned.
Quote from: jp the roadgeek on December 20, 2012, 12:42:35 AM
Seen them on East Main St. in Meriden too west of I-91/CT 15. Always called them "suicide lanes"
Down here in GA and AL people use them as merge lanes. :banghead:
Quote from: MrDisco99 on December 20, 2012, 09:57:03 AM
Down here in GA and AL people use them as merge lanes. :banghead:
that's not legal? I'd always assumed it was, because here in CA the behavior is universal. in order to make a left turn onto the arterial with the shared center lane, one first cuts across half the lanes, stops in the center lane, and then waits for a moment to join traffic going in the intended direction.
it allows what would otherwise be a next-to-impossible turn to do all at once to be achieved in segments.
Quote from: agentsteel53 on December 20, 2012, 10:20:57 AM
Quote from: MrDisco99 on December 20, 2012, 09:57:03 AM
Down here in GA and AL people use them as merge lanes. :banghead:
that's not legal? I'd always assumed it was, because here in CA the behavior is universal. in order to make a left turn onto the arterial with the shared center lane, one first cuts across half the lanes, stops in the center lane, and then waits for a moment to join traffic going in the intended direction.
it allows what would otherwise be a next-to-impossible turn to do all at once to be achieved in segments.
That is why many places are removing the center turn lane and replacing them with medians. It makes one do a right out, but can crossover at the first median break and uturn.
What is really the thing is some drivers cannot tell the difference between a bi directional turn lane and a typical left turn only lane. Places where it alternates from a center turn lane to at intersection left turn lanes, has people driving the wrong way in the way the lane is striped. In Orlando, before Orange Blossom Trail was widened from four to six lanes, at the Central Florida Parkway intersection the center turn lane stopped way before the lane became exclusive Northbound for left turn at the signalized intersection. Just south of the intersection on the east side was a Ford dealer that eventually moved up the road to a better location, but had an exclusive left turn lane when it was in operation. Many northbound motorists would permaturely get into the center turn lane almost one half mile before the start of the Central Florida Parkway left turn lane and ride the turn lane like it was a general purpose lane and ride NB in the SB left turn lane for the Ford dealer. My dad, once gotten into the turn lane to the auto dealer to turn into it, when a careless driver was heading NB down the middle of the road almost colliding with my dad.
One thing is if the left turn only lane reaches capacity and the back log has no choice but to occupy the previous center turn lane, but at this time motorists were using it as a "third lane" to pass other motorists, especially when the left lane protected left was activated. Now a median has been added and the car dealer is gone, and if it was still there, a u turn would be needed now.
These lanes, basically outlived their time in many places.
Quote from: roadman65 on December 20, 2012, 10:54:27 AMride the turn lane like it was a general purpose lane
Quoteusing it as a "third lane" to pass other motorists
these two practices do not seem legal. here I had thought the turn lane was meant for stopped traffic waiting to finish a left turn (either onto, or off of, the arterial). that's how I always use it, spending no more than a few dozen feet in the middle lane for deceleration when turning off the arterial, and little more than the space occupied by the car when waiting for a break in arterial traffic.
Quote from: jp the roadgeek on December 20, 2012, 12:42:35 AM
Quote from: agentsteel53 on December 19, 2012, 09:15:38 AM
Quote from: myosh_tino on December 19, 2012, 03:20:21 AM
If I'm not mistaken, California also uses "DO NOT PASS" signs instead of the pennant-shaped "NO PASSING ZONE".
there's places in CA which use both.
Seen them both in CT as well. DO NOT PASS is black lettering on white background.
Michigan uses both as well as PASS WITH CARE. You have to be able to find the passing zones when the snow covers the pavement.
Quote from: MrDisco99 on December 20, 2012, 09:57:03 AM
Quote from: jp the roadgeek on December 20, 2012, 12:42:35 AM
Seen them on East Main St. in Meriden too west of I-91/CT 15. Always called them "suicide lanes"
Down here in GA and AL people use them as merge lanes. :banghead:
They do the same around Chicago
Also with Michigan, the white box that has the left-turn arrow on it that is suspended over the intersection. The boxes also read "Wrong Way" or "One Way" if it is needed. There is also the left turn traffic signal with a smaller white box reading "Left" over it. Both of these I've ONLY seen in Michigan.
Quote from: PHLBOS on December 19, 2012, 01:14:38 PM
Quote from: deanej on December 19, 2012, 12:45:11 PM
In NY I've only seen "not trucks/buses/trailers left lane" on the Thruway; I can't remember if it appears downstate or not.
I believe such signs exist along I-684 and protions of I-287 (CWE section); I'll be passing through there later tonight so I can confirm.
Depending on which definition of "downstate" you use, I-684 may or may not count (the most common is I-84 for roadgeeks; I think my parents use an imaginary line running from the NY/PA border near Binghamton to the MA/CT border). The Cross Westchester has been a part of the Thruway since the 90s.
Someone in another thread pointed out how Virginia signs its county borders. I believe this is the only place where I have seen the county being exited get noted with the new county entering.
Then, if I remember in Texas, for San Antonio it has the City Limits on I-37 marked as you leave, but it is signed the same way as you enter, and it did confuse me a bit. I could be wrong as maybe I-37 does re-enter the historic city again on route to Corpus Christi.
These are the only places I have seen a place marked as leaving except on the Garden State Parkway leaving NJ and on I-70 leaving CO at the KS border.
I could be wrong, and someone may have pointed it out earlier in this thread, but Utah may be the only state to have used more than 2 distinct state route shield variations in the last decade. I can think of 4 widely-used sheilds; 3 are here:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm7.staticflickr.com%2F6228%2F6326880569_b4435f03f9_z.jpg&hash=830b511a8d091892cacc6e844704cb4f709d1f8e)
And the "puffy cloud" variant:
(//www.aaroads.com/shields/img/UT/UT19700892i1.jpg)
Quote from: roadman65 on December 20, 2012, 02:23:23 PM
Someone in another thread pointed out how Virginia signs its county borders. I believe this is the only place where I have seen the county being exited get noted with the new county entering.
Indiana does this statewide and I know I've seen county lines signed this way in Ohio, though I'm not sure if it's statewide, may very well be.
are those all official variants? I can name all kinds of strange California concoctions, but most of them are done by contractors.
Quote from: Rover_0 on December 20, 2012, 02:38:55 PM
I could be wrong, and someone may have pointed it out earlier in this thread, but Utah may be the only state to have used more than 2 distinct state route shield variations in the last decade. I can think of 4 widely-used sheilds; 3 are here:
Georgia exhibits this phenomenon too - I touched on this in a post a while back (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=3952.msg123054#msg123054). Jake brings up a good point that they could be contractors' fault, though I feel like I've seen quite a bit of this variety.
Quote from: Brandon on December 20, 2012, 11:14:16 AM
Quote from: jp the roadgeek on December 20, 2012, 12:42:35 AM
Quote from: agentsteel53 on December 19, 2012, 09:15:38 AM
Quote from: myosh_tino on December 19, 2012, 03:20:21 AM
If I'm not mistaken, California also uses "DO NOT PASS" signs instead of the pennant-shaped "NO PASSING ZONE".
there's places in CA which use both.
Seen them both in CT as well. DO NOT PASS is black lettering on white background.
Michigan uses both as well as PASS WITH CARE. You have to be able to find the passing zones when the snow covers the pavement.
I believe this subtopic started out with DO NOT PASS being used on the left side of the roadway, not the right side. It's a little hard for me to believe that the additional instances put forth since then are the same way.
Quote from: agentsteel53 on December 20, 2012, 10:20:57 AM
Quote from: MrDisco99 on December 20, 2012, 09:57:03 AM
Down here in GA and AL people use them as merge lanes. :banghead:
that's not legal? I'd always assumed it was, because here in CA the behavior is universal. in order to make a left turn onto the arterial with the shared center lane, one first cuts across half the lanes, stops in the center lane, and then waits for a moment to join traffic going in the intended direction.
it allows what would otherwise be a next-to-impossible turn to do all at once to be achieved in segments.
Try driving in Branson without doing that maneuver....
Quote from: tdindy88 on December 20, 2012, 02:44:22 PM
Quote from: roadman65 on December 20, 2012, 02:23:23 PM
Someone in another thread pointed out how Virginia signs its county borders. I believe this is the only place where I have seen the county being exited get noted with the new county entering.
Indiana does this statewide and I know I've seen county lines signed this way in Ohio, though I'm not sure if it's statewide, may very well be.
Kentucky did it that way (on black-on-white signs) until the early 1970s.
North Carolina does this off the interstates. "Welcome To XXX County, Leaving YYY County"
Quote from: tdindy88 on December 20, 2012, 02:44:22 PM
Quote from: roadman65 on December 20, 2012, 02:23:23 PM
Someone in another thread pointed out how Virginia signs its county borders. I believe this is the only place where I have seen the county being exited get noted with the new county entering.
Indiana does this statewide and I know I've seen county lines signed this way in Ohio, though I'm not sure if it's statewide, may very well be.
Here's one in Dennison...
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm3.staticflickr.com%2F2726%2F5768678061_5a9143444b_z.jpg&hash=636b9d1f6363d991a04158f14970d83903b116b6)
I feel like these signs are very demanding. As if they are telling you to leave one county, and enter the other.
Quote from: tdindy88 on December 20, 2012, 02:44:22 PM
Quote from: roadman65 on December 20, 2012, 02:23:23 PM
Someone in another thread pointed out how Virginia signs its county borders. I believe this is the only place where I have seen the county being exited get noted with the new county entering.
Indiana does this statewide and I know I've seen county lines signed this way in Ohio, though I'm not sure if it's statewide, may very well be.
This is standard for state-maintained conventional roads all across Ohio. Freeways and expressways only tell you what county you're entering.
Oklahoma uses "JCT" signs on freeways:
(https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8218/8293101116_43b70f42c9_c.jpg)
I've seen that sparingly in Texas and Louisiana. Usually a few miles in advance.
Bossier City, LA I-20 WB
http://maps.google.com/maps?q=shreveport&hl=en&ll=32.513942,-93.725433&spn=0.001212,0.001725&sll=33.23759,-97.145151&sspn=0.305535,0.441513&hnear=Shreveport,+Caddo,+Louisiana&t=m&z=19&layer=c&cbll=32.513942,-93.725433&panoid=BkB8s7XbsdZA_8_EcboEUw&cbp=12,289.42,,0,12.49
IIRC, I saw a leaving Hunterdon County, followed by an Entering Sussex County sign on NJ 94 between Blairstown and Newton.
Quote from: MrDisco99 on December 20, 2012, 09:57:03 AM
Quote from: jp the roadgeek on December 20, 2012, 12:42:35 AM
Seen them on East Main St. in Meriden too west of I-91/CT 15. Always called them "suicide lanes"
Down here in GA and AL people use them as merge lanes. :banghead:
Last I checked, that's not only legal, but the correct way to make a left turn.
Quote from: deanej on December 20, 2012, 10:00:00 PM
Quote from: MrDisco99 on December 20, 2012, 09:57:03 AM
Quote from: jp the roadgeek on December 20, 2012, 12:42:35 AM
Seen them on East Main St. in Meriden too west of I-91/CT 15. Always called them "suicide lanes"
Down here in GA and AL people use them as merge lanes. :banghead:
Last I checked, that's not only legal, but the correct way to make a left turn.
I've always considered it more of a fuckup than a correct way to make a left turn. The correct way to to floor it out of the street or driveway while using a break in traffic just big enough to get into the flow. If you get stuck in the center turn lane, you fucked up your timing.
Quote from: Brandon on December 20, 2012, 10:27:59 PM
Quote from: deanej on December 20, 2012, 10:00:00 PM
Quote from: MrDisco99 on December 20, 2012, 09:57:03 AM
Quote from: jp the roadgeek on December 20, 2012, 12:42:35 AM
Seen them on East Main St. in Meriden too west of I-91/CT 15. Always called them "suicide lanes"
Down here in GA and AL people use them as merge lanes. :banghead:
Last I checked, that's not only legal, but the correct way to make a left turn.
I've always considered it more of a fuckup than a correct way to make a left turn. The correct way to to floor it out of the street or driveway while using a break in traffic just big enough to get into the flow. If you get stuck in the center turn lane, you fucked up your timing.
In Nevada, I believe the law is that you cannot travel more than 100 feet in a TWLTL when turning onto the main road in this manner. But I always learned to avoid making the turn in this manner and wait for the appropriate gap. I think it is works better for driver expectation on the main road--I only do this merge manuever if I've been waiting for a gap for a long time and it becomes evident that the only way I will be able to make my turn is to do it in stages.
Quote from: Brandon on December 20, 2012, 10:27:59 PM
Quote from: deanej on December 20, 2012, 10:00:00 PM
Quote from: MrDisco99 on December 20, 2012, 09:57:03 AM
Quote from: jp the roadgeek on December 20, 2012, 12:42:35 AM
Seen them on East Main St. in Meriden too west of I-91/CT 15. Always called them "suicide lanes"
Down here in GA and AL people use them as merge lanes. :banghead:
Last I checked, that's not only legal, but the correct way to make a left turn.
I've always considered it more of a fuckup than a correct way to make a left turn. The correct way to to floor it out of the street or driveway while using a break in traffic just big enough to get into the flow. If you get stuck in the center turn lane, you fucked up your timing.
I'm pretty sure that
flooring it and relying on gaps that are
just big enough is not the correct way to perform any driving maneuver.
When I was learning to drive, I was told that using a TWLTL as a merge lane is not legal in Ohio, though it is in some nonspecific other states. People around here do it anyway, and it annoys the crap out of me.
Quote from: Kacie Jane on December 21, 2012, 12:35:15 AM
I'm pretty sure that flooring it and relying on gaps that are just big enough is not the correct way to perform any driving maneuver.
If you don't think you can perform the maneuver safely, then choose a different maneuver. I personally prefer turning right, then turning around in the driveway/lot of a business on the left; I call this an 'Ohio Michigan Left'.
Many roads have so much traffic that in order to do a left turn all at once you'll be waiting until midnight.
Quote from: Kacie Jane on December 21, 2012, 12:35:15 AM
Quote from: Brandon on December 20, 2012, 10:27:59 PM
Quote from: deanej on December 20, 2012, 10:00:00 PM
Quote from: MrDisco99 on December 20, 2012, 09:57:03 AM
Quote from: jp the roadgeek on December 20, 2012, 12:42:35 AM
Seen them on East Main St. in Meriden too west of I-91/CT 15. Always called them "suicide lanes"
Down here in GA and AL people use them as merge lanes. :banghead:
Last I checked, that's not only legal, but the correct way to make a left turn.
I've always considered it more of a fuckup than a correct way to make a left turn. The correct way to to floor it out of the street or driveway while using a break in traffic just big enough to get into the flow. If you get stuck in the center turn lane, you fucked up your timing.
I'm pretty sure that flooring it and relying on gaps that are just big enough is not the correct way to perform any driving maneuver.
I'm pretty sure that's a good way to get into an accident, in fact; also good for wearing out the parts of your car sooner.
Quote from: roadfro on December 20, 2012, 11:41:40 PM
TWLTL
what does this acronym stand for? I'm assuming it is the formal name for a shared turn lane.
Quote from: agentsteel53 on December 21, 2012, 09:34:24 AM
Quote from: roadfro on December 20, 2012, 11:41:40 PM
TWLTL
what does this acronym stand for? I'm assuming it is the formal name for a shared turn lane.
Two Way Left Turn Lane
'Center turn lane' works better because it applies equally well to left-side drive countries.
Only in Texas do they have that shield assembly that looks like a goalpost where multiple shields are assembled.
Quote from: roadman65 on December 21, 2012, 11:13:02 AM
Only in Texas do they have that shield assembly that looks like a goalpost where multiple shields are assembled.
Nope, the Texas Goalpoasts are used in Colorado as well.
I thought they looked like "longhorns."
I did not know that a TWLTL (or center turn lane) could or should be used as an intermediate stop when turning left across traffic until I saw an informational brochure published by the state of Kansas a few years ago. Since then, I frequently make left turns this way. Cross the lane coming from left to right and get in the center turn lane, then either stop or drive slowly until there's a safe opening in the right-to-left lane and merge in.
Quote from: roadman65 on December 21, 2012, 11:13:02 AM
Only in Texas do they have that shield assembly that looks like a goalpost where multiple shields are assembled.
I've seen Texas goalposts used in West Virginia and other states.
Ohio DOT has started using goalposts for exit gore signs lately; also, they use the narrow style even when horizontal clearance isn't an issue. I've seen quite a few turned sideways by the wind...
Quote from: hbelkins on December 21, 2012, 01:09:50 PM
I did not know that a TWLTL (or center turn lane) could or should be used as an intermediate stop when turning left across traffic until I saw an informational brochure published by the state of Kansas a few years ago. Since then, I frequently make left turns this way. Cross the lane coming from left to right and get in the center turn lane, then either stop or drive slowly until there's a safe opening in the right-to-left lane and merge in.
I would like to know more about the legality of this maneuver. it is very, very common here in California. in fact, I generally know that I don't have to move over to the right if someone is turning left into my direction, and has a shared turn lane. they will stop and wait, as opposed to barreling forward.
Something's not right about this document, but you get the gist of it. It's from FHWA and acknowledges Kansas DOT.
http://safety.fhwa.dot.gov/ped_bike/docs/b_2way.pdf
Here's the Kansas page, with a link to a bi-fold brochure:
http://www.ksdot.org/burtrafficsaf/brochures/turnlanes.asp
Quote from: vtk on December 21, 2012, 01:45:20 PM
Ohio DOT has started using goalposts for exit gore signs lately; also, they use the narrow style even when horizontal clearance isn't an issue. I've seen quite a few turned sideways by the wind...
I don't get why the goalposts are used on so many new gore signs; the new signage on I-71 north of Columbus includes narrow gore signs on goalposts, and there is no space issue whatsoever. The previous normal Exit 151 gore signs in both directions were only up for a couple years (due to the bridge widening there) and then they were replaced with narrow ones on goalposts. In Akron on I-77, the Clearview from the Central Interchange to just north of Arlington included a couple narrow gores on goalposts and some wide, normal ones on two regular breakaway posts, with identical horizontal clearances. It was almost random....
Quote from: jp the roadgeek on December 20, 2012, 09:09:34 PM
IIRC, I saw a leaving Hunterdon County, followed by an Entering Sussex County sign on NJ 94 between Blairstown and Newton.
Hunterdon does not border Sussex. You mean Warren County.
Quote from: ap70621 on December 21, 2012, 09:54:10 PM
Quote from: jp the roadgeek on December 20, 2012, 09:09:34 PM
IIRC, I saw a leaving Hunterdon County, followed by an Entering Sussex County sign on NJ 94 between Blairstown and Newton.
Hunterdon does not border Sussex. You mean Warren County.
Thats odd, cause NJ does not like to sign county borders with the county names, but likes to sign municipal boundaries instead. Usually at county lines, the name of the township, town, borough, or city is mentioned, but never the county except on the Garden State Parkway(denoted with county route shield cut outs with gold on blue lettering) and on some old signs (black on white) that face the highway sideways with arrows pointing to the direction of the county.
Quote from: kphoger on December 18, 2012, 10:29:37 AM
Quote from: bugo on December 18, 2012, 01:07:02 AM
North Dakota has some 65 MPH county roads.
What's the highest speed limit on a dirt road? There's at least one dirt road in ND with a 55 MPH speed limit:
The default speed limit for county roads in Kansas is 55 mph, with no distinction made between paved and unpaved. According to the Wyoming DOT page that NE2 linked to, the default speed limit for unpaved county roads in Wyoming is 55 mph, and used to be 65 mph prior to 2011.
In Michigan, dirt roads default to 55 mph as well.
Quote from: roadman65 on December 21, 2012, 10:10:37 PM
Quote from: ap70621 on December 21, 2012, 09:54:10 PM
Quote from: jp the roadgeek on December 20, 2012, 09:09:34 PM
IIRC, I saw a leaving Hunterdon County, followed by an Entering Sussex County sign on NJ 94 between Blairstown and Newton.
Hunterdon does not border Sussex. You mean Warren County.
Thats odd, cause NJ does not like to sign county borders with the county names, but likes to sign municipal boundaries instead. Usually at county lines, the name of the township, town, borough, or city is mentioned, but never the county except on the Garden State Parkway(denoted with county route shield cut outs with gold on blue lettering) and on some old signs (black on white) that face the highway sideways with arrows pointing to the direction of the county.
For the most part that's true, but there are a few examples of counties putting up their own welcome signage not installed by the state in the fashion of its "Entering Twp of xyz" style.
-Sussex County erects somewhat standardized, attractive welcome signs, for example here on NJ 183: https://maps.google.com/maps?q=sussex+county&hl=en&ll=40.901999,-74.696774&spn=0.019722,0.044117&sll=40.95916,-74.995422&sspn=1.252784,3.869934&hnear=Sussex,+New+Jersey&t=m&z=15&layer=c&cbll=40.902098,-74.704944&panoid=470VTmHt2lTTSKBV0u_ZCw&cbp=12,51.54,,0,3.19
-Hunterdon County posts small blue welcome signs complete with founding date, for example here on CR 517: https://maps.google.com/maps?q=hunterdon+county&hl=en&ll=40.736072,-74.709435&spn=0.158167,0.352936&sll=40.902098,-74.704944&sspn=0.001233,0.003779&hnear=Hunterdon,+New+Jersey&t=m&z=12&layer=c&cbll=40.736289,-74.774553&panoid=AcOIOVG0_rvI1-4ZdE0MAQ&cbp=12,245.09,,0,7.34
-Ocean County posts larger blue signs with the county shield, for example here on CR 539: https://maps.google.com/maps?q=hunterdon+county&hl=en&ll=40.10226,-74.50446&spn=0.00499,0.011029&sll=40.902098,-74.704944&sspn=0.001233,0.003779&hnear=Hunterdon,+New+Jersey&t=m&z=17&layer=c&cbll=40.102178,-74.506436&panoid=DBjtC9jjIUCTFnvmFSs-gw&cbp=12,197.32,,0,6.77
-Warren County posts small green welcome signs, shown partially obscured here on US 46: https://maps.google.com/maps?q=warren+county&hl=en&ll=40.848537,-74.817903&spn=0.009869,0.022058&sll=40.834103,-74.822908&sspn=0.001234,0.003779&hnear=Warren,+New+Jersey&t=m&z=16&layer=c&cbll=40.84853,-74.821854&panoid=_zg10aiEC8e20Dy_4ezGTA&cbp=12,334.07,,0,3.45
Burlington County also used to have a welcome sign posted on CR 537 that has now been removed.
Quote from: hbelkins on December 21, 2012, 01:09:50 PM
I did not know that a TWLTL (or center turn lane) could or should be used as an intermediate stop when turning left across traffic until I saw an informational brochure published by the state of Kansas a few years ago. Since then, I frequently make left turns this way. Cross the lane coming from left to right and get in the center turn lane, then either stop or drive slowly until there's a safe opening in the right-to-left lane and merge in.
Quote from: roadman65 on December 21, 2012, 11:13:02 AM
Only in Texas do they have that shield assembly that looks like a goalpost where multiple shields are assembled.
I've seen Texas goalposts used in West Virginia and other states.
I was thinking as to why the TWLTL is marked the way it is....a double yellow line, the outside is solid and the inside is broken on both sides of the lane.
Usually the solid yellow line means you cannot cross it and the broken yellow line means you can cross it (too pass)
If I were a traffic engineer I would probably think of a different line marking strategy, of course I have no idea what it would be. Maybe the inside is broken because you're supposed to turn your way out of it or merge back in.
Well, the outside line is not 'broken' so that people do not mistake it for a place where passing is legal.
I've pondered that same though at times and have also been able to come up with nothing better.
:meh:
Mike
Does any other state (jurisdiction) stripe their TWLTL's like this?
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.asphaltplanet.ca%2FON%2Fhwy_10-19_images%2F10_cl_41_north_Jun11.jpg&hash=c157a109c5ce071b8aa25cc8fb16581e5dbce2d8)
Quote from: AsphaltPlanet on December 23, 2012, 12:56:00 PM
Does any other state (jurisdiction) stripe their TWLTL's like this?
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.asphaltplanet.ca%2FON%2Fhwy_10-19_images%2F10_cl_41_north_Jun11.jpg&hash=c157a109c5ce071b8aa25cc8fb16581e5dbce2d8)
I like the inverted center turn lane sign on the side of the road to match the unusual striping.
Quote from: doofy103 on December 23, 2012, 10:42:21 AM
Quote from: hbelkins on December 21, 2012, 01:09:50 PM
I did not know that a TWLTL (or center turn lane) could or should be used as an intermediate stop when turning left across traffic until I saw an informational brochure published by the state of Kansas a few years ago. Since then, I frequently make left turns this way. Cross the lane coming from left to right and get in the center turn lane, then either stop or drive slowly until there's a safe opening in the right-to-left lane and merge in.
I was thinking as to why the TWLTL is marked the way it is....a double yellow line, the outside is solid and the inside is broken on both sides of the lane.
Usually the solid yellow line means you cannot cross it and the broken yellow line means you can cross it (too pass)
If I were a traffic engineer I would probably think of a different line marking strategy, of course I have no idea what it would be. Maybe the inside is broken because you're supposed to turn your way out of it or merge back in.
When the TWLTL was introduced in California (1960s), it was marked with broken double lines on each side. Much like reversible-direction lanes are now marked. The initial guidance to motorists included using the lane as a refuge or merge lane for vehicles turning left to enter the roadway.
Quote from: AsphaltPlanet on December 23, 2012, 12:56:00 PM
Does any other state (jurisdiction) stripe their TWLTL's like this?
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.asphaltplanet.ca%2FON%2Fhwy_10-19_images%2F10_cl_41_north_Jun11.jpg&hash=c157a109c5ce071b8aa25cc8fb16581e5dbce2d8)
I kmow what they mean by it, but somebody could interpret that to mean a one sided passing zone.
Quote from: AsphaltPlanet on December 23, 2012, 12:56:00 PM
Does any other state (jurisdiction) stripe their TWLTL's like this?
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.asphaltplanet.ca%2FON%2Fhwy_10-19_images%2F10_cl_41_north_Jun11.jpg&hash=c157a109c5ce071b8aa25cc8fb16581e5dbce2d8)
where is this?
Hwy 10, northwest of Toronto, ON.
Quote from: AsphaltPlanet on December 23, 2012, 06:52:03 PM
Hwy 10, northwest of Toronto, ON.
Canada does not have to conform to the FHWA and its MUTCD. However, it is interesting to see how other countries stripe their pavements. Good photo.
Quote from: AsphaltPlanet on December 23, 2012, 12:56:00 PM
Does any other state (jurisdiction) stripe their TWLTL's like this?
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.asphaltplanet.ca%2FON%2Fhwy_10-19_images%2F10_cl_41_north_Jun11.jpg&hash=c157a109c5ce071b8aa25cc8fb16581e5dbce2d8)
I've always thought this marking style for center turn lanes would make more sense with the typical meanings of passing lines. I understand the thoughts on whether it would induce passing, though.
Maybe if the format in the picture was used with a dotted line instead of the broken line? Dotted lines are often to denote a lane becomes a burning lane...and for acceleration/deceleration lanes (an arguable second use of the lane).
I don't think this configuration induces passing. There are dozens if not hundreds of lanes such as this across the province, and drivers seem to use them as they have been designed. This stiping is unique to Ontario though, as far as I know. Quebec stripes their two way centre turn lanes as the U.S. does.
I like this striping.
I also like the sign visible on the right side of the image.
Very clear. I think even (some) of the addled drivers out there will understand that.
Quote from: AsphaltPlanet on December 23, 2012, 07:54:10 PM
I don't think this configuration induces passing. There are dozens if not hundreds of lanes such as this across the province, and drivers seem to use them as they have been designed. This stiping is unique to Ontario though, as far as I know. Quebec stripes their two way centre turn lanes as the U.S. does.
Yeah but drivers are smarter in every other developed country than the US. I would definitely take advantage of a "passing TWLTL" if I were stuck behind someone.
I like the striping from Ontario too. In fact, I was a fairly new driver when they first introduced the bi-directional center turn lane in my area. It confused the heck out of me, and I immediately saw that putting the broken line on my side of the solid line would be the logical marking to me. I'm not supposed to cross over a solid yellow on my side of the broken line, but I can cross over a broken yellow line, when the way is clear. It seems so "right" to me.
We don't have nearly as many smart drivers in Indiana as in Ontario, and I often see drivers stop in the through lane to make their left turn. I'm thinking they do so because of that solid yellow line.
Isn't it true that gore points at exits in Nebraska have "EXIT" in the top panel and the number in the bottom one where the arrow is?
Yes, this is a typical Nebraska exit sign
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.corcohighways.org%2Fhighways%2Fne%2F80%2Fwytol53b%2F1.JPG&hash=d9263d8b05f93c64c1d159ceeb8f0eb542a4eb36)
That's just downright goofy.
To the best of my knowledge, this practice exists only in Washington state: using community interchanges signs (which are designed for use on freeways only) on state highways which pass through towns as surface arterials. There are multiple examples on US 101 and US 97.
A community interchanges sign has essentially the same format as an interchange sequence sign, except there is a top panel saying "[Name of community] Exits" or similar.
Quote from: corco on December 25, 2012, 03:36:41 PM
Yes, this is a typical Nebraska exit sign
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.corcohighways.org%2Fhighways%2Fne%2F80%2Fwytol53b%2F1.JPG&hash=d9263d8b05f93c64c1d159ceeb8f0eb542a4eb36)
If the NDOR removed the tab with the word "EXIT" in them, the exit gore signs would be very similar to Ontario's.
Quote from: myosh_tino on December 16, 2012, 11:47:37 PM
Quote from: bugo on December 16, 2012, 10:34:38 PM
In Oklahoma, many entrance ramps to freeways are continuous and become exit only lanes for the next exit. These are great because you have until the next exit to merge over, instead of having to worry about the entrance merge ramp ending before the exit lane begins. Is this unique to Oklahoma or do other states use this setup?
In California, these are called an "auxiliary lane" and they are quite common here. In fact there is a current construction project on US 101 from route 85 in Mountain View to the San Mateo county line to add these auxiliary lanes in both directions.
I've seen this in both NC and GA as well, and for NC it was on Green 40 in Winston and I-40 in some places too.
Which goes to my next point, only NC has such a love affair with green interstates and hardly have any 3di.
One of the 3di though, I-540 in Raleigh, is just silly since half of it now is "NC 540" with a toll...and it may or may not be changed to I-640 one day, next century probably.
Quote from: corco on December 25, 2012, 03:36:41 PM
Yes, this is a typical Nebraska exit sign
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.corcohighways.org%2Fhighways%2Fne%2F80%2Fwytol53b%2F1.JPG&hash=d9263d8b05f93c64c1d159ceeb8f0eb542a4eb36)
But it makes more intuitive sense: You read "EXIT" and then the number "1"; you say "EXIT" and then the number "1". The other way around, the sign really says "314A EXIT" or what have you.
Quote from: vtk on December 25, 2012, 04:40:02 PM
That's just downright goofy.
Not really. It makes the exit number more readable due to its larger text size. It's actually a logical transitional step from the old standard gore sign to the current one.
Quote from: Special K on December 26, 2012, 12:57:20 PM
Quote from: vtk on December 25, 2012, 04:40:02 PM
That's just downright goofy.
Not really. It makes the exit number more readable due to its larger text size. It's actually a logical transitional step from the old standard gore sign to the current one.
Just make one big rectangle to contain all those elements at the size in the picture. Putting the word "exit" in a panel 90% as wide as the rest of the sign makes a goofy pear shape that has a pointless dividing line across it.
Quote from: vtk on December 26, 2012, 04:04:31 PM
Quote from: Special K on December 26, 2012, 12:57:20 PM
Quote from: vtk on December 25, 2012, 04:40:02 PM
That's just downright goofy.
Not really. It makes the exit number more readable due to its larger text size. It's actually a logical transitional step from the old standard gore sign to the current one.
Just make one big rectangle to contain all those elements at the size in the picture. Putting the word "exit" in a panel 90% as wide as the rest of the sign makes a goofy pear shape that has a pointless dividing line across it.
Why even have the word "EXIT" in the gore sign at all? Just do like Ontario and use the number with an arrow. Nebraska's is a step between the two as I see it.
Stupid people might assume that is the exit for Route 1 or something asinine like that.
Quote from: Scott5114 on December 26, 2012, 06:24:16 PM
Stupid people might assume that is the exit for Route 1 or something asinine like that.
Only in New England from what I've seen, and even then they use an arrow through the number. For some reason Ontarioans seem to get it, and they're about as bad as any other drivers from the US or Canada.
Ontario's Hwy 401 has an exit # 401, which evidently has caused some confusion. At the bullnose (gore), the 401 exit signs were replaced with generic exit signs that just read 'Exit' and supplementary guidance signs were installed in the median to remind through traffic not to follow the exit.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.asphaltplanet.ca%2FON%2FOntroads%2F401_dv_401-5_west.jpg&hash=85cd478dc349725d4eebb14c48284302accd3826)
couldn't they just fudge it and call it exit 400 or 402? or 400A?
Exit 401 replaced Exit 400 to the east, but it probably could have been numbered 402. The original traffic engineers who numbered the exit must have figured the general population was more intelligent than it apparently is.
Quote from: agentsteel53 on December 27, 2012, 12:23:50 PM
couldn't they just fudge it and call it exit 400 or 402? or 400A?
Shoot, you know kilometers are small enough they could get away with it.
Quote from: US71 on December 13, 2012, 07:06:16 PM
Arkansas: Multiple occurrences of a route number (AR 60, AR 74 come to mind right away)
Indiana has this also.
Only in Arizona - An interstate's distances are measured exclusively in kilometers.
Quote from: cabiness42 on December 27, 2012, 01:39:41 PM
Quote from: US71 on December 13, 2012, 07:06:16 PM
Arkansas: Multiple occurrences of a route number (AR 60, AR 74 come to mind right away)
Indiana has this also.
as does California. see 84, if you can.
Quote from: agentsteel53 on December 27, 2012, 02:24:15 PM
Quote from: cabiness42 on December 27, 2012, 01:39:41 PM
Quote from: US71 on December 13, 2012, 07:06:16 PM
Arkansas: Multiple occurrences of a route number (AR 60, AR 74 come to mind right away)
Indiana has this also.
as does California. see 84, if you can.
I still have never understood why this was considered as one singular corridor (number-wise) when the two segments have never even directly connected and would have always required a concurrency on 580.
(The other examples of split routes - 162, 168, 190, 39, 90 - involve straightline physical gaps of some sort.)
Quote from: cabiness42 on December 27, 2012, 01:39:41 PM
Quote from: US71 on December 13, 2012, 07:06:16 PM
Arkansas: Multiple occurrences of a route number (AR 60, AR 74 come to mind right away)
Indiana has this also.
In trump, if you will. Indiana may have more instances of the same route number than any other state in the Union due to Indiana's route numbering grid. There are multiple IN-4s, IN-119s, IN-3s, etc.
You could fill a thread with them.
Indiana has balanced the state budget by turning back state highways to localities to maintain, causing many discontinuities in highways. It's not only a burden to the local governments, but also sometimes confusing to travelers. At least the budget is balanced.
Wisconsin: No single-digit state highway.
Quote from: theline on December 27, 2012, 03:37:41 PM
Indiana has balanced the state budget by turning back state highways to localities to maintain, causing many discontinuities in highways. It's not only a burden to the local governments, but also sometimes confusing to travelers. At least the budget is balanced.
It was that way before they did the turnbacks. IN-4 has been in at least three sections for decades as an example.
Quote from: Big John on December 27, 2012, 04:35:22 PM
Wisconsin: No single-digit state highway.
Nope. See Nevada.
Quote from: kphoger on December 27, 2012, 05:15:13 PM
Quote from: Big John on December 27, 2012, 04:35:22 PM
Wisconsin: No single-digit state highway.
Nope. See Nevada.
Hawaii as well.
Nevada, in fact, has only two two-digit routes officially on the current books: 28, and 88, both continuations of California routes with the same number, in the tourist-heavy Tahoe region. there may be a 34 and an 8A which are remnants of the pre-1976 renumbering, but it's tough to tell. signs exist for them, but they just may be remnants since they're completely out in the sticks.
Nevada is definitely the only state which uses three-digit numbers only as part of its own internally consistent grid. any violations are, again, due to desired continuity with that neighboring $tate that'$ filled with $ucker touri$t$.
Quote from: Big John on December 27, 2012, 04:35:22 PM
Wisconsin: No single-digit state highway.
California has at least two: CA-3 in the far north of the state, and CA-9 from Los Gatos to Santa Cruz.
Quote from: kkt on December 27, 2012, 05:40:18 PM
Quote from: Big John on December 27, 2012, 04:35:22 PM
Wisconsin: No single-digit state highway.
California has at least two: CA-3 in the far north of the state, and CA-9 from Los Gatos to Santa Cruz.
California also has 1, 2, 4, and 7.
Quote from: CentralCAroadgeek on December 27, 2012, 05:44:20 PM
Quote from: kkt on December 27, 2012, 05:40:18 PM
Quote from: Big John on December 27, 2012, 04:35:22 PM
Wisconsin: No single-digit state highway.
California has at least two: CA-3 in the far north of the state, and CA-9 from Los Gatos to Santa Cruz.
California also has 1, 2, 4, and 7.
Kansas has eight. Wheeeeeee!!!!
Quote from: kphoger on December 27, 2012, 05:46:36 PM
Quote from: CentralCAroadgeek on December 27, 2012, 05:44:20 PM
Quote from: kkt on December 27, 2012, 05:40:18 PM
Quote from: Big John on December 27, 2012, 04:35:22 PM
Wisconsin: No single-digit state highway.
California has at least two: CA-3 in the far north of the state, and CA-9 from Los Gatos to Santa Cruz.
California also has 1, 2, 4, and 7.
Kansas has eight. Wheeeeeee!!!!
The six state routes mentioned by kkt and CentralCAroadgeek is the maximum number of single-digit California state routes because the other three (5, 6 and 8) are all either Interstates (5 and 8) or US routes (6). California does not allow route duplication.
Virginia also has 8, with 1 (in use for US 1) the only omission. From 1923 to 1933, it had no single digit state routes at all.
North Carolina currently does not have a 6 (or 1, for the same reason as Virginia), with the most recent NC 6 decommissioned in the mid-2000s. Maryland has also never had an MD 1, or MD 9 for some reason.
To nip the discussion in the bud...
States that have all 9: AK, DE, IL, IN, KY, LA, MS, OK
States that have all 9 if you count I & US routes: CA, CT, ID, IA, ME, MA, MN, NY, SC, TN, VA
States that have all 9 if you count hidden routes: AL, GA (or should this be in the first list?), OR
States with no single-digit state highways: AZ, HI, NV, WI, WY
Texas is an interesting case. It has Farm to Market 1-9; it also has 1-9 if you combine all the other types of state highways together. But for just their base highways, they're missing a handful of single digits.
Florida is only missing SR 1. It has US 1, but since they normally don't give a rat's ass about duplication, I left them off the second list. But SR A1A used to be SR 1, and still has a 1 in it, so...
(I almost left New York off the second list for the same reason, but since they usually care about duplication -- but only with US routes -- I still included them.)
Quote from: Kacie Jane on December 27, 2012, 08:29:07 PM
To nip the discussion in the bud...
States that have all 9: AK, DE, IL, IN, KY, LA, MS, OK
States that have all 9 if you count I & US routes: CA, CT, ID, IA, ME, MA, MN, NY, SC, TN, VA
States that have all 9 if you count hidden routes: AL, GA (or should this be in the first list?), OR
States with no single-digit state highways: AZ, HI, NV, WI, WY
Texas is an interesting case. It has Farm to Market 1-9; it also has 1-9 if you combine all the other types of state highways together. But for just their base highways, they're missing a handful of single digits.
Florida is only missing SR 1. It has US 1, but since they normally don't give a rat's ass about duplication, I left them off the second list. But SR A1A used to be SR 1, and still has a 1 in it, so...
(I almost left New York off the second list for the same reason, but since they usually care about duplication -- but only with US routes -- I still included them.)
I stand corrected.
But for Georgia, the only hidden routes are the state routes concurrent with the interstate highways (SR 401-425). All state routes concurrent with US routes are openly signed, including SR 1-9.
Oklahoma has 14 one-digit routes.
Wait, what?
Quote from: Mapmikey on December 14, 2012, 03:47:52 PM
Quote from: Doctor Whom on December 14, 2012, 01:44:13 PM
Only in South Carolina, AFAIK: Secondary road markers that give the county number as well as the route number (e.g., S-30-301, which is in Laurens County (#30)).
Nebraska does this with their link/spur routes but I don't know if they're considered primary or secondary.
Based on where they go and their short length, link/spur routes are clearly secondary routes, but NDOR does not define them as secondary routes as opposed to numbered routes being primary routes.
Quote from: Scott5114 on December 27, 2012, 09:25:54 PM
Oklahoma has 14 one-digit routes.
Wait, what?
Hexadecimal, of course.
Quote from: kphoger on December 27, 2012, 05:15:13 PM
Quote from: Big John on December 27, 2012, 04:35:22 PM
Wisconsin: No single-digit state highway.
Nope. See Nevada.
Quebec: No single OR two digit provincial highways.
Arkansas has a unique warning sign I have not seen anywhere else. On certain stretches of highway in the mountains there will be a sign saying "(X Hwy.) very crooked and steep next X miles". I'm not sure if they still do this, but on a particularly hilly and curvy stretch of US 71 between Alma and Fayetteville they used to add a sign to the "crooked and steep" sign that indicated the number of people who had died in accidents on the road in the last few years and then said "Don't you be next". This was before I-540 was built when US 71 was still the main road through the area, so I'm not sure whether they still update the sign with the highway deaths now.
I believe Tennessee is the only state that has a primary/secondary route system in which the same numbered route can switch between primary and secondary status based on location.
Quote from: theline on December 27, 2012, 09:34:24 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on December 27, 2012, 09:25:54 PM
Oklahoma has 14 one-digit routes.
Wait, what?
Hexadecimal, of course.
Nope.
1, 2, 2, 3, 3(E), 3(W), 4, 4, 5, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9 = 14 one digit routes.
Quote from: Big John on December 27, 2012, 08:47:53 PM
I stand corrected.
But for Georgia, the only hidden routes are the state routes concurrent with the interstate highways (SR 401-425). All state routes concurrent with US routes are openly signed, including SR 1-9.
That's kind of what I thought, but I wasn't sure. Thanks.
How many states have five-digit routes? Virginia has primary routes 90003, 90004, and 90005, as well as some 10xxx secondaries.
Quote from: Takumi on December 28, 2012, 11:31:34 AM
How many states have five-digit routes? Virginia has primary routes 90003, 90004, and 90005, as well as some 10xxx secondaries.
I'm pretty sure Kentucky does not get that high. Louisiana doesn't either, but it does have 5-digit routes if you count ones like "1284-1" (which I don't think you should). Those are the only two I can think of that potentially would.
Quote from: Scott5114 on December 27, 2012, 09:52:57 PM
1, 2, 2, 3, 3(E), 3(W), 4, 4, 5, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9 = 14 one digit routes.
In that case, Kentucky has 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 8, 8 and 9. That makes 12.
11*
Quote from: Kacie Jane on December 27, 2012, 08:29:07 PM
To nip the discussion in the bud...
States that have all 9: AK, DE, IL, IN, KY, LA, MS, OK
States that have all 9 if you count I & US routes: CA, CT, ID, IA, ME, MA, MN, NY, SC, TN, VA
States that have all 9 if you count hidden routes: AL, GA (or should this be in the first list?), OR
States with no single-digit state highways: AZ, HI, NV, WI, WY
Texas is an interesting case. It has Farm to Market 1-9; it also has 1-9 if you combine all the other types of state highways together. But for just their base highways, they're missing a handful of single digits.
Florida is only missing SR 1. It has US 1, but since they normally don't give a rat's ass about duplication, I left them off the second list. But SR A1A used to be SR 1, and still has a 1 in it, so...
(I almost left New York off the second list for the same reason, but since they usually care about duplication -- but only with US routes -- I still included them.)
There is a US 6 in Indiana but no state highway 6.
Quote from: cabiness42 on December 28, 2012, 01:06:03 PM
There is a US 6 in Indiana but no state highway 6.
Apologies. I was looking at it after I posted, and had a feeling I had either Illinois or Indiana in the wrong list. Then I got lazy and didn't check/correct it. Story of my life.
Quote from: Kacie Jane on December 28, 2012, 12:03:35 PM
Quote from: Takumi on December 28, 2012, 11:31:34 AM
How many states have five-digit routes? Virginia has primary routes 90003, 90004, and 90005, as well as some 10xxx secondaries.
I'm pretty sure Kentucky does not get that high. Louisiana doesn't either, but it does have 5-digit routes if you count ones like "1284-1" (which I don't think you should). Those are the only two I can think of that potentially would.
I don't know why we should count VA 9000x but not LA xxxx-x. If the -x is to be considered as not part of the main number, then I'd say at least the 9 in 9000x should be likewise considered.
Quote from: Takumi on December 28, 2012, 11:31:34 AM
How many states have five-digit routes? Virginia has primary routes 90003, 90004, and 90005, as well as some 10xxx secondaries.
Quebec's internally numbered routes have five digits.
Quote from: Kacie Jane on December 27, 2012, 08:29:07 PM
To nip the discussion in the bud...
States that have all 9: AK, DE, IL, IN, KY, LA, MS, OK
Knock LA off of this list....we lost LA 7 back in the late 1990s-early 2000s to US 371.
but we do have an ALT 2. Does that count for anything? And an unsigned Spur 3
Quote from: Steve on December 28, 2012, 05:25:35 PM
Quote from: Takumi on December 28, 2012, 11:31:34 AM
How many states have five-digit routes? Virginia has primary routes 90003, 90004, and 90005, as well as some 10xxx secondaries.
Quebec's internally numbered routes have five digits.
If we're going to go with internal designations, it could be argued that all of Georgia's state routes have six alphanumeric characters (SR 3 = 000300, SR 141 = 014100, SR 85 Alt = 0085AL, etc., etc.)
Quote from: Eth on December 29, 2012, 12:38:26 PM
Quote from: Steve on December 28, 2012, 05:25:35 PM
Quote from: Takumi on December 28, 2012, 11:31:34 AM
How many states have five-digit routes? Virginia has primary routes 90003, 90004, and 90005, as well as some 10xxx secondaries.
Quebec's internally numbered routes have five digits.
If we're going to go with internal designations, it could be argued that all of Georgia's state routes have six alphanumeric characters (SR 3 = 000300, SR 141 = 014100, SR 85 Alt = 0085AL, etc., etc.)
But that's a bookkeeping system, what with the leading zeroes. I could then argue that NJ has ten-digit routes, because all of the roads catalogued by the state (regardless of maintenance) have eight numeric digits and then up to two suffix letters. The roads in Quebec are province-numbered routes.
My memory was jogged when I went home for Christmas this year. I've only ever noticed these signs in Cuyahoga County and Lorain County in Ohio:
https://maps.google.com/maps?q=13803+Lakewood+Heights+Boulevard,+Lakewood,+OH&hl=en&ll=41.470445,-81.78724&spn=0.001674,0.001725&sll=41.470431,-81.787739&layer=c&cbp=13,315.36,,1,1.8&cbll=41.470445,-81.787751&gl=us&hnear=13803+Lakewood+Heights+Blvd,+Lakewood,+Ohio+44107&t=h&z=19&panoid=yysc8WzDMv1GYxTdvK631A
Basically, the sign lists the road you are currently on and lets you know what road(s) you are approaching '500 feet ahead.'
Ohio seems to have their own bridge design that is unique. All with round piers and capped off at the last pier. Also most piers are all painted white and the girders blue, at least when there in 03.
The same can be said about the NJ Turnpike having its own bridge design that I have not seen anywhere else.
At one time even NJ had its own design of bridges on freeways and newer local roads with the curved railing. It changes later when some architects designing different freeways had their own ideas like I-195, NJ 33 (Freehold Bypass), and NJ 18 all have a design with one large rectangular pier instead of two or three round or square ones. The Garden State Parkway even changed over the years as they were once standard, but then later done differently along with each individual project.
I think Georgia still has a design on all their 70's built freeways that are still unique. The two square piers, with caps over the sides, green girders, and cement railings.
Oklahoma seems to be unique among the states in gradually decreasing speed limits rather than a hard drop. If you are going from a 65 mph zone to a 45 mph zone, there is always a 55 zone in between.
Quote from: Scott5114 on January 02, 2013, 08:44:53 AM
Oklahoma seems to be unique among the states in gradually decreasing speed limits rather than a hard drop. If you are going from a 65 mph zone to a 45 mph zone, there is always a 55 zone in between.
Florida always does this on state roads. There are a few drops (and rises) of 15, but almost all go at increments of 5 or 10. For example, here's Williston: http://www.itoworld.com/map/124#fullscreen&lat=29.39&lon=-82.45&zoom=13
Quote from: NE2 on January 02, 2013, 09:58:39 AM
Quote from: Scott5114 on January 02, 2013, 08:44:53 AM
Oklahoma seems to be unique among the states in gradually decreasing speed limits rather than a hard drop. If you are going from a 65 mph zone to a 45 mph zone, there is always a 55 zone in between.
Florida always does this on state roads. There are a few drops (and rises) of 15, but almost all go at increments of 5 or 10. For example, here's Williston: http://www.itoworld.com/map/124#fullscreen&lat=29.39&lon=-82.45&zoom=13
The biggest increase I'm aware of in NJ is coming out of the Aljo Curve - I-295 South at I-76/NJ 42. The speed limit in the curve (and the curve after) is 35 mph. The next speed limit zone is 65 mph, a 30mph jump.
Going into the curves around this interchange, the drop is 20 mph - from 55 mph to 35 mph. This includes 295 North, as there is a speed reduction from 65 mph to 55 mph about 3/4 mile before the interchange. Southbound, the speed limit is 55 mph for about 8 miles prior to the interchange.
Quote from: Scott5114 on January 02, 2013, 08:44:53 AM
Oklahoma seems to be unique among the states in gradually decreasing speed limits rather than a hard drop. If you are going from a 65 mph zone to a 45 mph zone, there is always a 55 zone in between.
In Alabama, this is done by law, so as to prevent small town speed traps. There is never an increase or decrease of more than 10, so that you don't enter a town and have the speed limit go from 55/65 to 25 in one shot, with a cop hiding behind the billboard.
Quote from: BamaZeus on January 02, 2013, 11:21:55 AM
In Alabama, this is done by law, so as to prevent small town speed traps. There is never an increase or decrease of more than 10, so that you don't enter a town and have the speed limit go from 55/65 to 25 in one shot, with a cop hiding behind the billboard.
that's something Nevada does. towns like Fallon and Searchlight on US-95 have that quick drop, and the town is all too quick to enforce the reflex tax.
Quote from: Scott5114 on January 02, 2013, 08:44:53 AM
Oklahoma seems to be unique among the states in gradually decreasing speed limits rather than a hard drop. If you are going from a 65 mph zone to a 45 mph zone, there is always a 55 zone in between.
This is usually (but not always) done in NY as well. Some of them result in quite comical over-use of road signs (NY 12 south approaching Alexandria Bay even has 12 signs in 1/4 mile because of this).
Quote from: Scott5114 on January 02, 2013, 08:44:53 AM
Oklahoma seems to be unique among the states in gradually decreasing speed limits rather than a hard drop. If you are going from a 65 mph zone to a 45 mph zone, there is always a 55 zone in between.
IIRC, California has a law in place that limits the maximum speed limit drop to 10 MPH to minimize speed traps. On rural roads entering a town you'll see the limits drop from 55 to 45 to 35 entering town and then rise from 35 to 45 to 55 leaving town.
Idaho does it- typically on a 65 MPH road it goes 65-50-35-25
I'll just add that in that 55 mph to 35 mph drop on 295 in NJ, it's an unenforced limit, but necessary due to the curves. And at least on the NB side, since 295 and 42 multiplexes for a 1/4 mile, the limit technically jumps back up to 55 mph since one roadway can't have varying speed limits in adjoining lanes.
I'm sure if one causes an accident in the interchange (which based on an analysis a few years ago, occurs approximately twice on a daily basis), they could charge you with some sort of speeding violation. However, in NJ 'Careless Driving' is the general, catch-all charge most people get hit with when they're at fault in an accident. Careless Driving has the same fine and points as a minor speeding violation.
Not to mention, no cop would want to risk their lives trying to pull someone over for a simple speeding violation on these curves. There are *plenty* of opportunities to pull someone over elsewhere on the highway in a more normal speed zone.
Quote from: agentsteel53 on January 02, 2013, 12:52:24 PM
Quote from: BamaZeus on January 02, 2013, 11:21:55 AM
In Alabama, this is done by law, so as to prevent small town speed traps. There is never an increase or decrease of more than 10, so that you don't enter a town and have the speed limit go from 55/65 to 25 in one shot, with a cop hiding behind the billboard.
that's something Nevada does. towns like Fallon and Searchlight on US-95 have that quick drop, and the town is all too quick to enforce the reflex tax.
Nevada will typically have a staged drop approaching the small towns. Between Vegas and Fallon on US 95, the speed limit is 70 most of the way. Approaching a town, you usually get a "Reduced Speed Ahead" (older regulatory sign) or "XX MPH Speed Zone Ahead" (text diamond warning sign), followed by at least two transitional speed zones before you get to the town speed. A typical example is 70 (rural) > 55 > 45 > 35 > 25 (town).
Quote from: NE2 on January 02, 2013, 09:58:39 AM
Quote from: Scott5114 on January 02, 2013, 08:44:53 AM
Oklahoma seems to be unique among the states in gradually decreasing speed limits rather than a hard drop. If you are going from a 65 mph zone to a 45 mph zone, there is always a 55 zone in between.
Florida always does this on state roads. There are a few drops (and rises) of 15, but almost all go at increments of 5 or 10. For example, here's Williston: http://www.itoworld.com/map/124#fullscreen&lat=29.39&lon=-82.45&zoom=13
Do not forget the small stretch of rural US 17-92 between Davenport and Haines City that only rises up to 50 mph to avoid the hard drops at either end. Then coming into Davenport S-WB you have the limit go from 55 to 50, then to 45, to 40, and finally 35 around the CR 547 intersection. Then it rises again to 40 and then to 50 toward Haines City.
Some areas go to 55 for short stretches between towns, where you speed up to 55 and then have to brake again soon afterward. Even FL 60 east of Bartow does not have the 65 mph resume, because a few miles east there is a 45 mph speed zone. Then where it is a long straight run to Lake Wales it becomes 65 mph because it is that for several miles.
Not sure if it's been mentioned here...
I know people probably referenced Oregon's lack of putting Limit on Speed Limit signs, but a really annoying Oregon signing convention is putting signs right AFTER where you need to turn. It gets very confusing at times, because they don't do it everywhere.
I can't find the specific statute, but Texas has a law that speed limits can only change in maximum 15-mph increments and must be effective for a minimum distance. I know it's 15 because it goes from 50 to 35 on McDonald Street in McKinney.
Michigan, backlit "LEFT" and "RIGHT" boxes mounted right on top of almost every turning light. I challenge anyone to spot this setup outside Michigan. Also, flashing red ball for permissive turns, seen flashing red arrows, but not flashing red balls in any state other than Michigan. Speaking of turning, I wanted to add the Michigan left system, but a few confirmed reports have found them in various localities of other states. DARN! Oh, and the fact we label and refer to our state routes "M-XX" and not "SR-XX" or "MI-XX"
Quote from: Daniel on January 03, 2013, 03:50:35 PMOh, and the fact we label and refer to our state routes "M-XX" and not "SR-XX" or "MI-XX"
Kansas says hi.
On OH-750 just west of I-71 there's a traffic light serving big box retail, with protected-only multiple left turn lanes. Late at night, the signal goes to flashers: the side roads get flashing red balls, through traffic on 750 gets flashing yellow balls, and the left turn lanes for 750 get flashing red balls. I believe this is meant to be treated as a permissive left, like in Michigan. So yes, it exists elsewhere, but rarely.
Quote from: vtk on January 03, 2013, 04:18:16 PM
On OH-750 just west of I-71 there's a traffic light serving big box retail, with protected-only multiple left turn lanes. Late at night, the signal goes to flashers: the side roads get flashing red balls, through traffic on 750 gets flashing yellow balls, and the left turn lanes for 750 get flashing red balls. I believe this is meant to be treated as a permissive left, like in Michigan. So yes, it exists elsewhere, but rarely.
I would treat that as a "come to a stop, then turn left when safe", which is not exactly the definition of a permissive left.
Quote from: Scott5114 on January 02, 2013, 08:44:53 AM
Oklahoma seems to be unique among the states in gradually decreasing speed limits rather than a hard drop. If you are going from a 65 mph zone to a 45 mph zone, there is always a 55 zone in between.
Generally Utah uses buffer zones in rural towns, but it can be so different from town to town, and even different approaches to the same town. Here's some towns I can name off the top of my head generally along US-89:
Coming into Kanab from the north, the speed goes 65-60-55-45-35, from the south (US-89A), it goes 55-45-35. From the east, it goes 65-45-35.
Panguitch, coming in from the north, goes 65-55-45-35, but from the southeast, there is no buffer, as you drop from 65 down to 35! I'm not sure about UT-143.
Hatch's speeds coming in from the south and going from 65-60-40, and from the north it's 65-55-40.
Orderville and Glendale are uniform on either side, with Orderville going from 55-45-35 and Glendale going from 55-40.
Quote from: hbelkins on January 03, 2013, 04:13:55 PM
Quote from: Daniel on January 03, 2013, 03:50:35 PMOh, and the fact we label and refer to our state routes "M-XX" and not "SR-XX" or "MI-XX"
Kansas says hi.
Ditto Utah ('U-xx'). Kansas uses 'K-xx', too.
:nod:
Mike
.com
Quote from: agentsteel53 on January 03, 2013, 04:36:22 PM
Quote from: vtk on January 03, 2013, 04:18:16 PM
On OH-750 just west of I-71 there's a traffic light serving big box retail, with protected-only multiple left turn lanes. Late at night, the signal goes to flashers: the side roads get flashing red balls, through traffic on 750 gets flashing yellow balls, and the left turn lanes for 750 get flashing red balls. I believe this is meant to be treated as a permissive left, like in Michigan. So yes, it exists elsewhere, but rarely.
I would treat that as a "come to a stop, then turn left when safe", which is not exactly the definition of a permissive left.
And technically, that's what the law requires when a flashing red ball is used for a permissive left in Michigan too.
Personally, I think a flashing yellow ball (beside a "left turn signal" sign) would make the most sense to indicate permissive left where protected-only mode is sometimes used, but that's not what FHWA decided on...
Doesn't flashing yellow currently mean "just blow on through"? They're used on semi-major rural intersections where one road has a stop sign but the other doesn't.
Quote from: deanej on January 04, 2013, 12:47:48 PM
Doesn't flashing yellow currently mean "just blow on through"?
Not if you intend to turn left.
Quote from: deanej on January 04, 2013, 12:47:48 PM
Doesn't flashing yellow currently mean "just blow on through"? They're used on semi-major rural intersections where one road has a stop sign but the other doesn't.
I was under the impression that a flashing yellow meant "proceed at speed with caution".
Quote from: Brandon on January 04, 2013, 02:24:48 PM
I was under the impression that a flashing yellow meant "proceed at speed with caution".
Which is how you should always be driving...
Quote from: vtk on January 04, 2013, 01:00:38 PM
Quote from: deanej on January 04, 2013, 12:47:48 PM
Doesn't flashing yellow currently mean "just blow on through"?
Not if you intend to turn left.
how is it different from an intersection without a signal for the through way? i.e. only STOP signs for the side street. when I turn left onto the side street, I have to watch for oncoming traffic regardless of the presence of a flashing yellow.
Quote from: Brandon on January 04, 2013, 02:24:48 PM
Quote from: deanej on January 04, 2013, 12:47:48 PM
Doesn't flashing yellow currently mean "just blow on through"? They're used on semi-major rural intersections where one road has a stop sign but the other doesn't.
I was under the impression that a flashing yellow meant "proceed at speed with caution".
Which for many drivers simply resolves to "just blow on through". Essentially, what a flashing yellow says to me is, "Hey, look, there's an intersection here, and there may or may not be an asshole waiting for the perfect opportunity to turn in front of you."
Quote from: Kacie Jane on January 04, 2013, 03:34:56 PM
Quote from: Brandon on January 04, 2013, 02:24:48 PM
Quote from: deanej on January 04, 2013, 12:47:48 PM
Doesn't flashing yellow currently mean "just blow on through"? They're used on semi-major rural intersections where one road has a stop sign but the other doesn't.
I was under the impression that a flashing yellow meant "proceed at speed with caution".
Which for many drivers simply resolves to "just blow on through". Essentially, what a flashing yellow says to me is, "Hey, look, there's an intersection here, and there may or may not be an asshole waiting for the perfect opportunity to turn in front of you."
Which, again, describes every single intersection. Heck - it describes every single driveway. Heck - someone could pop off a curb or grassy field.
True, but these are special intersections with higher asshole potential.
Quote from: agentsteel53 on January 04, 2013, 02:56:28 PM
Quote from: vtk on January 04, 2013, 01:00:38 PM
Quote from: deanej on January 04, 2013, 12:47:48 PM
Doesn't flashing yellow currently mean "just blow on through"?
Not if you intend to turn left.
how is it different from an intersection without a signal for the through way? i.e. only STOP signs for the side street. when I turn left onto the side street, I have to watch for oncoming traffic regardless of the presence of a flashing yellow.
Exactly. In a situation with no signal at all, or when faced with a flashing yellow ball, a person turning left must yield to oncoming traffic, but is not otherwise required to stop.
So if you're designing a traffic signal for one or more left turn lanes, where sometimes left turns are prohibited, sometimes they are permitted, and sometimes they are protected, why the heck not use a flashing yellow ball for the permissive/unprotected left?
On the other hand, the flashing yellow arrow might suggest that left turning traffic can blow through yielding to no-one (like steady green arrow) as through traffic does on a flashing yellow ball (like steady green ball). Rather than apply the existing meaning of a flashing yellow ball for left turning traffic, FHWA chose to create a new meaning for the arrow, in the case of that arrow being yellow and flashing: now you must yield to oncoming traffic, even though you have an arrow indication.
On the other hand, many drivers aren't smart enough to properly combine known meanings of arrow vs ball with flashing red vs flashing yellow vs steady green, and they have to learn specific meanings for each individual case anyway.
QuoteDitto Utah ('U-xx')
That's a weird myth- I've never seen that outside of roadgeek circles. Utah is typically SR-
Quote from: corco on January 04, 2013, 04:29:06 PM
That's a weird myth- I've never seen that outside of roadgeek circles. Utah is typically SR-
somewhere I have a 1940s photo of a white guide sign with "TO U-xx" as one of the destinations referenced with an arrow. I'll have to dig it up.
Heh, I guess I could see it being a historic designation when the shields were a big "U", but in driving around Utah, listening to the radio in Utah, and talking to people from Utah I've never seen or heard it referred to that way.
Quote from: Kacie Jane on January 04, 2013, 03:46:10 PM
True, but these are special intersections with higher asshole potential.
That describes most any intersection around Chicago.
Quote from: vtk on January 04, 2013, 01:00:38 PM
Quote from: deanej on January 04, 2013, 12:47:48 PM
Doesn't flashing yellow currently mean "just blow on through"?
Not if you intend to turn left.
Quote from: vtk on January 04, 2013, 04:27:42 PM
On the other hand, the flashing yellow arrow might suggest that left turning traffic can blow through yielding to no-one (like steady green arrow) as through traffic does on a flashing yellow ball (like steady green ball). Rather than apply the existing meaning of a flashing yellow ball for left turning traffic, FHWA chose to create a new meaning for the arrow, in the case of that arrow being yellow and flashing: now you must yield to oncoming traffic, even though you have an arrow indication.
A flashing circular yellow has never meant "just blow through", but has always meant "proceed with caution". FHWA clarified the MUTCD definition of all flashing yellow signals in the 2009 MUTCD, and both are consistent with each other.
2003 MUTCD, Sec 4D.04 (Meaning of Vehicular Signal Indications) (http://mutcd.fhwa.dot.gov/htm/2003r1r2/part4/part4d.htm#section4D04)
Quote
D. Flashing signal indications shall have the following meanings:
1. Flashing yellow–When a yellow lens is illuminated with rapid intermittent flashes, vehicular traffic is permitted to proceed through the intersection or past such signal indication only with caution.
3. Flashing RED ARROW and flashing YELLOW ARROW signal indications have the same meaning as the corresponding flashing circular signal indication, except that they apply only to vehicular traffic intending to make the movement indicated by the arrow.
2009 MUTCD, Sec 4D.04 (Meaning of Vehicular Signal Indications) (http://mutcd.fhwa.dot.gov/htm/2009r1r2/part4/part4d.htm#section4D04)
Quote
E. Flashing yellow signal indications shall have the following meanings:
1. Vehicular traffic, on an approach to an intersection, facing a flashing CIRCULAR YELLOW signal indication is permitted to cautiously enter the intersection to proceed straight through or turn right or left or make a U-turn except as such movement is modified by lane-use signs, turn prohibition signs, lane markings, roadway design, separate turn signal indications, or other traffic control devices.
Such vehicular traffic, including vehicles turning right or left or making a U-turn, shall yield the right-of-way to:
a. Pedestrians lawfully within an associated crosswalk, and
b. Other vehicles lawfully within the intersection.
In addition, vehicular traffic turning left or making a U-turn to the left shall yield the right-of-way to other vehicles approaching from the opposite direction so closely as to constitute an immediate hazard during the time when such turning vehicle is moving across or within the intersection.
2. Vehicular traffic, on an approach to an intersection, facing a flashing YELLOW ARROW signal indication, displayed alone or in combination with another signal indication, is permitted to cautiously enter the intersection only to make the movement indicated by such arrow, or other such movement as is permitted by other signal indications displayed at the same time.
Such vehicular traffic, including vehicles turning right or left or making a U-turn, shall yield the right-of-way to:
(a) Pedestrians lawfully within an associated crosswalk, and
(b) Other vehicles lawfully within the intersection.
In addition, vehicular traffic turning left or making a U-turn to the left shall yield the right-of-way to other vehicles approaching from the opposite direction so closely as to constitute an immediate hazard during the time when such turning vehicle is moving across or within the intersection.
Quote from: roadfro on January 04, 2013, 05:22:14 PM
Quote from: vtk on January 04, 2013, 01:00:38 PM
Quote from: deanej on January 04, 2013, 12:47:48 PM
Doesn't flashing yellow currently mean "just blow on through"?
Not if you intend to turn left.
Quote from: vtk on January 04, 2013, 04:27:42 PM
On the other hand, the flashing yellow arrow might suggest that left turning traffic can blow through yielding to no-one (like steady green arrow) as through traffic does on a flashing yellow ball (like steady green ball). Rather than apply the existing meaning of a flashing yellow ball for left turning traffic, FHWA chose to create a new meaning for the arrow, in the case of that arrow being yellow and flashing: now you must yield to oncoming traffic, even though you have an arrow indication.
A flashing circular yellow has never meant "just blow through", but has always meant "proceed with caution". FHWA clarified the MUTCD definition of all flashing yellow signals in the 2009 MUTCD, and both are consistent with each other.
I don't think deanej or vtk meant to imply that the MUTCD literally defined a flashing yellow as "just blow through"; I know I didn't mean that. But the caveat "with caution" is relatively useless. I mean, shouldn't you always drive with caution? What particular caution are you supposed to use at a flashing yellow? Should you reduce your speed? By how much?
I stand by what I said, that in practice, a flashing yellow ball means to continue driving as you normally would, but keep an eye out for entering/crossing traffic (as you should at any intersection, whether it has a yellow ball or not).
Quote from: Kacie Jane on January 04, 2013, 05:46:04 PM
Quote from: roadfro on January 04, 2013, 05:22:14 PM
Quote from: vtk on January 04, 2013, 01:00:38 PM
Quote from: deanej on January 04, 2013, 12:47:48 PM
Doesn't flashing yellow currently mean "just blow on through"?
Not if you intend to turn left.
Quote from: vtk on January 04, 2013, 04:27:42 PM
On the other hand, the flashing yellow arrow might suggest that left turning traffic can blow through yielding to no-one (like steady green arrow) as through traffic does on a flashing yellow ball (like steady green ball). Rather than apply the existing meaning of a flashing yellow ball for left turning traffic, FHWA chose to create a new meaning for the arrow, in the case of that arrow being yellow and flashing: now you must yield to oncoming traffic, even though you have an arrow indication.
A flashing circular yellow has never meant "just blow through", but has always meant "proceed with caution". FHWA clarified the MUTCD definition of all flashing yellow signals in the 2009 MUTCD, and both are consistent with each other.
I don't think deanej or vtk meant to imply that the MUTCD literally defined a flashing yellow as "just blow through"; I know I didn't mean that. But the caveat "with caution" is relatively useless. I mean, shouldn't you always drive with caution? What particular caution are you supposed to use at a flashing yellow? Should you reduce your speed? By how much?
I stand by what I said, that in practice, a flashing yellow ball means to continue driving as you normally would, but keep an eye out for entering/crossing traffic (as you should at any intersection, whether it has a yellow ball or not).
If you have a yellow light, you have the right of way, or at the very least your right of way is soon coming to an end (b/c the light will soon turn red)
According to Michgan's DOT site, the flashing yellow arrow means you dont have the right away and must yield to uncoming traffic. This is confusing to most drivers I would think.
B/c every other time you have a "yellow anything" it means you still have the right of way. Flashing yellow beacon, yellow light on a regular traffic light etc. So if I had a flashing yellow arrow I would think, I still have the right of way and stop if I can safely do so until the next green arrow comes on.
It seems the MUTCD is splitting hairs and making rules that most drivers won't know how to understand them. Does a driver really understand when a broken line turns into a dotted line on a multilane highway that their lane or a lane next to them is ending? Do most drivers really figure out what that means?
Never underestimate the misunderstandings of motorists. A FYA should be accompanied with a sign showing its meaning at least for a time for motorists to get used to its meaning. Even my sister has problems understanding the solid red arrow - she still thinks that means a left turn is allowed after stopping, even after me reminding her to wait until the green arrow appears to turn or a waiting cop could pull her over.
Quote from: Big John on January 04, 2013, 08:44:00 PM
problems understanding the solid red arrow - she still thinks that means a left turn is allowed after stopping, even after me reminding her to wait until the green arrow appears to turn or a waiting cop could pull her over.
This is why a drive test should be required everytime you renew your license.
How do you fuck up a red arrow? The only time you can proceed after stopping on a red light is when you're turning right.
Norman has solved the issue of drivers potentially not understanding the FYA by including this sign next to each FYA installation. (This is an older version of the sign; newer ones have a MUTCD arrow in the circle but are otherwise the same.) FYAs are so common in Norman now they could probably stop posting them, but they are still handy for visitors.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.scott5114.name%2Froadgeek%2Froad-photos%2Fmain.php%3Fcmd%3Dimage%26amp%3Bvar1%3Dok%252Fcleveland%252FIMG_4533.JPG%26amp%3Bvar2%3D1000_85&hash=317073f4c280c0af646ad2b88cc1b7a809761886)
Quote from: Scott5114 on January 04, 2013, 09:38:11 PM
The only time you can proceed after stopping on a red light is when you're turning right.
In Kentucky, you can turn left on red if you're turning from a one-way street onto another one-way street.
Quote from: hbelkins on January 04, 2013, 10:36:41 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on January 04, 2013, 09:38:11 PM
The only time you can proceed after stopping on a red light is when you're turning right.
In Kentucky, you can turn left on red if you're turning from a one-way street onto another one-way street.
Same in New York outside the City of New York.
Does NYC also prohibit right turn on red?
LTOR for one-ways is legal in a majority of states. We covered it in this thread (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=6134.0). Methinks Scott had merely forgotten about one-way streets when he posted his comment.
And yes, RTOR is still illegal in New York City as far as I know.
Quote from: hbelkins on January 04, 2013, 10:36:41 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on January 04, 2013, 09:38:11 PM
The only time you can proceed after stopping on a red light is when you're turning right.
In Kentucky, you can turn left on red if you're turning from a one-way street onto another one-way street.
Ditto in Illinois. And in Michigan, you can turn left on red from a two-way street onto a one-way street.
Quote from: doofy103 on January 04, 2013, 08:20:22 PM
If you have a yellow light, you have the right of way, or at the very least your right of way is soon coming to an end (b/c the light will soon turn red)
According to Michgan's DOT site, the flashing yellow arrow means you dont have the right away and must yield to uncoming traffic. This is confusing to most drivers I would think.
B/c every other time you have a "yellow anything" it means you still have the right of way. Flashing yellow beacon, yellow light on a regular traffic light etc. So if I had a flashing yellow arrow I would think, I still have the right of way and stop if I can safely do so until the next green arrow comes on.
I think you're blurring the issue combining comments on steady vs. flashing yellow. Also, beacons attached to signs are different from flashing yellow signals.
Michigan DOT's site is correct in that you must yield to oncoming traffic. I don't see how that would be any more confusing to drivers any than seeing a circular green and assuming you have right of way to turn when you still are supposed to yield.
Quote
It seems the MUTCD is splitting hairs and making rules that most drivers won't know how to understand them. Does a driver really understand when a broken line turns into a dotted line on a multilane highway that their lane or a lane next to them is ending? Do most drivers really figure out what that means?
I know I picked up on the difference in lane line styles pretty quick as a new driver. For me when driving in an unfamiliar area, the dotted line is a visual cue that a lane is dropping or will be a mandatory turn--often I will see that before noticing the related turn signs. It is a important enough cue that I curse the applicable DOT or public works agency when I get caught in such a lane drop that didn't use dotted lines...
Quote from: hbelkins on January 04, 2013, 10:57:42 PM
Does NYC also prohibit right turn on red?
RTOR and LTOR are blanket prohibited unless otherwise posted. Many of the exceptions are on Staten Island, but there are scattered other ones in all boroughs.
Quote from: vtk on January 04, 2013, 04:27:42 PM
Quote from: agentsteel53 on January 04, 2013, 02:56:28 PM
Quote from: vtk on January 04, 2013, 01:00:38 PM
Quote from: deanej on January 04, 2013, 12:47:48 PM
Doesn't flashing yellow currently mean "just blow on through"?
Not if you intend to turn left.
how is it different from an intersection without a signal for the through way? i.e. only STOP signs for the side street. when I turn left onto the side street, I have to watch for oncoming traffic regardless of the presence of a flashing yellow.
Exactly. In a situation with no signal at all, or when faced with a flashing yellow ball, a person turning left must yield to oncoming traffic, but is not otherwise required to stop.
So if you're designing a traffic signal for one or more left turn lanes, where sometimes left turns are prohibited, sometimes they are permitted, and sometimes they are protected, why the heck not use a flashing yellow ball for the permissive/unprotected left?
On the other hand, the flashing yellow arrow might suggest that left turning traffic can blow through yielding to no-one (like steady green arrow) as through traffic does on a flashing yellow ball (like steady green ball). Rather than apply the existing meaning of a flashing yellow ball for left turning traffic, FHWA chose to create a new meaning for the arrow, in the case of that arrow being yellow and flashing: now you must yield to oncoming traffic, even though you have an arrow indication.
On the other hand, many drivers aren't smart enough to properly combine known meanings of arrow vs ball with flashing red vs flashing yellow vs steady green, and they have to learn specific meanings for each individual case anyway.
If you were going to use a ball, you could just use a doghouse signal ;)
Quote from: Kacie Jane on January 04, 2013, 05:46:04 PM
Quote from: roadfro on January 04, 2013, 05:22:14 PM
Quote from: vtk on January 04, 2013, 01:00:38 PM
Quote from: deanej on January 04, 2013, 12:47:48 PM
Doesn't flashing yellow currently mean "just blow on through"?
Not if you intend to turn left.
Quote from: vtk on January 04, 2013, 04:27:42 PM
On the other hand, the flashing yellow arrow might suggest that left turning traffic can blow through yielding to no-one (like steady green arrow) as through traffic does on a flashing yellow ball (like steady green ball). Rather than apply the existing meaning of a flashing yellow ball for left turning traffic, FHWA chose to create a new meaning for the arrow, in the case of that arrow being yellow and flashing: now you must yield to oncoming traffic, even though you have an arrow indication.
A flashing circular yellow has never meant "just blow through", but has always meant "proceed with caution". FHWA clarified the MUTCD definition of all flashing yellow signals in the 2009 MUTCD, and both are consistent with each other.
I don't think deanej or vtk meant to imply that the MUTCD literally defined a flashing yellow as "just blow through"; I know I didn't mean that. But the caveat "with caution" is relatively useless. I mean, shouldn't you always drive with caution? What particular caution are you supposed to use at a flashing yellow? Should you reduce your speed? By how much?
I stand by what I said, that in practice, a flashing yellow ball means to continue driving as you normally would, but keep an eye out for entering/crossing traffic (as you should at any intersection, whether it has a yellow ball or not).
Some advisory speed signs in NY would suggest that you should reduce speed at these things, but NY underposts advisory speed signs to such a degree that they don't really affect much. Aside from glancing at the cross street, I don't really change much of my driving with respect to the flashing yellows; I suspect they're just there in an attempt to provide idiot insurance.
Quote from: roadfro on January 05, 2013, 01:46:06 AM
Quote from: doofy103 on January 04, 2013, 08:20:22 PM
If you have a yellow light, you have the right of way, or at the very least your right of way is soon coming to an end (b/c the light will soon turn red)
According to Michgan's DOT site, the flashing yellow arrow means you dont have the right away and must yield to uncoming traffic. This is confusing to most drivers I would think.
B/c every other time you have a "yellow anything" it means you still have the right of way. Flashing yellow beacon, yellow light on a regular traffic light etc. So if I had a flashing yellow arrow I would think, I still have the right of way and stop if I can safely do so until the next green arrow comes on.
I don't see how that would be any more confusing to drivers any than seeing a circular green and assuming you have right of way to turn when you still are supposed to yield.
{emphasis added}
You hit the nail on the head there. People don't think it's OK to turn left in front of oncoming traffic just because they have a circular green light, so why would they think it's OK to do so with a flashing yellow arrow? If anything, people understand a flashing yellow light of any variety to mean 'watch out', which is very much in concert with the laws on the books. Most flashing yellow light laws say something like "may proceed only with caution'; in fact, 'right of way' is a rarely used term in US law.
Quote from: kphoger on January 05, 2013, 02:01:29 PM
Quote from: roadfro on January 05, 2013, 01:46:06 AM
Quote from: doofy103 on January 04, 2013, 08:20:22 PM
If you have a yellow light, you have the right of way, or at the very least your right of way is soon coming to an end (b/c the light will soon turn red)
According to Michgan's DOT site, the flashing yellow arrow means you dont have the right away and must yield to uncoming traffic. This is confusing to most drivers I would think.
B/c every other time you have a "yellow anything" it means you still have the right of way. Flashing yellow beacon, yellow light on a regular traffic light etc. So if I had a flashing yellow arrow I would think, I still have the right of way and stop if I can safely do so until the next green arrow comes on.
I don't see how that would be any more confusing to drivers any than seeing a circular green and assuming you have right of way to turn when you still are supposed to yield.
{emphasis added}
You hit the nail on the head there. People don't think it's OK to turn left in front of oncoming traffic just because they have a circular green light,
For many years the standard in Michigan was to indicate a protected left with a steady green ball under a "LEFT" sign.
Quote from: kphoger on January 05, 2013, 02:01:29 PM
so why would they think it's OK to do so with a flashing yellow arrow?
Because for many years in many places such as Ohio, a left-pointing
arrow (as opposed to a ball) in a traffic signal always referred to a protected turn.
Quote from: vtk on January 05, 2013, 02:37:49 PM
For many years the standard in Michigan was to indicate a protected left with a steady green ball under a "LEFT" sign.
But I assume that, back then in Michigan, at every intersection
without protected left turns, drivers
didn't just go barging across oncoming traffic thinking they had the right of way by virtue of the steady green ball.
Quote from: vtk on January 05, 2013, 02:37:49 PM
Quote from: kphoger on January 05, 2013, 02:01:29 PM
so why would they think it's OK to do so with a flashing yellow arrow?
Because for many years in many places such as Ohio, a left-pointing arrow (as opposed to a ball) in a traffic signal always referred to a protected turn.
I'd still contend that most drivers didn't/don't know that a left-pointing arrow always referred to a protected turn, and also that the meaning of a yellow light (that yellow=caution) would naturally supercede any such knowledge.
Quote from: kphoger on January 05, 2013, 02:01:29 PM
Quote from: roadfro on January 05, 2013, 01:46:06 AM
Quote from: doofy103 on January 04, 2013, 08:20:22 PM
If you have a yellow light, you have the right of way, or at the very least your right of way is soon coming to an end (b/c the light will soon turn red)
According to Michgan's DOT site, the flashing yellow arrow means you dont have the right away and must yield to uncoming traffic. This is confusing to most drivers I would think.
B/c every other time you have a "yellow anything" it means you still have the right of way. Flashing yellow beacon, yellow light on a regular traffic light etc. So if I had a flashing yellow arrow I would think, I still have the right of way and stop if I can safely do so until the next green arrow comes on.
I don't see how that would be any more confusing to drivers any than seeing a circular green and assuming you have right of way to turn when you still are supposed to yield.
{emphasis added}
You hit the nail on the head there. People don't think it's OK to turn left in front of oncoming traffic just because they have a circular green light, so why would they think it's OK to do so with a flashing yellow arrow?
I look at it the other way around. I don't know why people would assume they HAVE to yield at a FYA. It goes back to an earlier point here that a flashing yellow circular pretty much functions as a green light except with a "proceed with caution" feel to it. Adding an arrow to that [should] simply modifies it to include protected turns as well.
I can't think of anything about the parts of an FYA that would lead me to think yielding to oncoming traffic was a part of its function:
Flashing yellow circulars indicate to proceed (albeit with caution), and Flashing red indicates coming to a complete stop like a stop sign So, flashing does not have any "yield" aspects to it.
Yellow(arrow or ball), when solid simply indicates that your signal is about to turn red. And prior to the FYA, Flashing Yellow indicated to proceed, but with caution. So there isn't really anything about yellow that inherently has any "yield" aspects to it.
And finally, the
Arrow, by it's very nature (at least prior to the FYA, and especially for left turns) is what explicitly tells you that you
don't have to yield; that you're turn movements are protected.
QuoteIf anything, people understand a flashing yellow light of any variety to mean 'watch out', which is very much in concert with the laws on the books. Most flashing yellow light laws say something like "may proceed only with caution'; in fact, 'right of way' is a rarely used term in US law.
Agreed... though "watch out" and "Proceed with caution"
DOES NOT EQUAL "assume you have to yield". Especially with a modifier (the arrow) to the signal indicating that there is an element of protection to the left turn lane.
I guess one of the main cornerstones of my position is that using an arrow in a yield situation is kind of oxymoronic. Which is why, if I came upon to a FYA with no prior knowledge of it, I certainly would not deduce that it functions the same as a green ball.
Of course, after being in at least 2 discussions about it, I certainly can't claim to not know how it's intended to work.
Quote from: kphoger on January 05, 2013, 02:57:09 PM
I'd still contend that most drivers didn't/don't know that a left-pointing arrow always referred to a protected turn, and also that the meaning of a yellow light (that yellow=caution) would naturally supercede any such knowledge.
I can't imagine how such drivers could be so dumb (and I'm not trying to be as insulating as that sounds). That's bascially what the arrow IS.
And once again, "caution" is
not the same as "Assume you have to yield to oncoming traffic" (at least in my opinion.)
Quote from: hbelkins on January 04, 2013, 10:57:42 PM
Does NYC also prohibit right turn on red?
Yes. Signs are usually posted on major highways as you cross the city line.
Quote from: Steve on January 05, 2013, 10:49:31 AM
Quote from: hbelkins on January 04, 2013, 10:57:42 PM
Does NYC also prohibit right turn on red?
RTOR and LTOR are blanket prohibited unless otherwise posted. Many of the exceptions are on Staten Island, but there are scattered other ones in all boroughs.
I'm guessing that's done in the interests of pedestrian safety vs. moving traffic more efficiently?
The protected/permitted/yield/right of way/circular/arrow/steady/flashing confusion could have been avoided if the flashing green weren't wasted. Only three colors, only two modes (flashing or steady)...not too many combinations. Flashing green would have been better for proceeding with caution when you have the right of way, and then flashing yellow could mean more like it does for the current FYA. As it is, flashing yellow has different uses--circular signal heads, warning flashers, and FYAs, while flashing green goes unused (yes, except for a couple places where it's dying anyway).
Quote from: Mr_Northside on January 05, 2013, 03:08:52 PM
I look at it the other way around. I don't know why people would assume they HAVE to yield at a FYA. It goes back to an earlier point here that a flashing yellow circular pretty much functions as a green light except with a "proceed with caution" feel to it. Adding an arrow to that [should] simply modifies it to include protected turns as well.
I can't think of anything about the parts of an FYA that would lead me to think yielding to oncoming traffic was a part of its function:
Flashing yellow circulars indicate to proceed (albeit with caution), and Flashing red indicates coming to a complete stop like a stop sign So, flashing does not have any "yield" aspects to it.
Yellow(arrow or ball), when solid simply indicates that your signal is about to turn red. And prior to the FYA, Flashing Yellow indicated to proceed, but with caution. So there isn't really anything about yellow that inherently has any "yield" aspects to it.
And finally, the Arrow, by it's very nature (at least prior to the FYA, and especially for left turns) is what explicitly tells you that you don't have to yield; that you're turn movements are protected.
<...>
Agreed... though "watch out" and "Proceed with caution" DOES NOT EQUAL "assume you have to yield". Especially with a modifier (the arrow) to the signal indicating that there is an element of protection to the left turn lane.
I guess one of the main cornerstones of my position is that using an arrow in a yield situation is kind of oxymoronic. Which is why, if I came upon to a FYA with no prior knowledge of it, I certainly would not deduce that it functions the same as a green ball.
{bold+italic emphasis added}
Wanted to touch on these three points...
Look at it this way: An FYA signal is used only where there the turning traffic has a separate turn lane for making the turns. During the flashing yellow arrow permissive phase, left turning traffic has to yield to oncoming traffic in order to make the turn. If you take the same situation prior to FYA (i.e. standard signal or a 5-section doghouse/vertical/horizontal signal), during the circular green permissive phase, how did you make the left turn? You had to yield to oncoming traffic--hence the "Left turn yield on [green ball]" sign. Thus, it's the nature of making a permissive left turn that requires a driver to yield, not the presence of a flashing yellow arrow.
Then examine the meaning of an arrow signal. Arrows are special signal indications to govern turning movements in the direction of the arrow. An arrow does not necessarily exist only to signify a protected turning movement, as they can be used in other applications--although granted protected turns are the most common application, and I am admittedly hard pressed to come up with another example at present. (Pertinent sidebar: if arrows were meant only for protected movements, what would be the purpose of a red arrow?)
Now, with the latest MUTCD, FHWA decided that any signal head directly above a dedicated turn lane should use an all-arrow display. Apparently, there was research that showed a circular green above dedicated turn lanes was sometimes interpreted by drivers as if they had a protected turn when it was really permissive--i.e. they were "proceeding" when they should have been "proceeding with caution". The FYA combined the desire to have an all-arrow display controlling only the dedicated turn lane with the existing meaning of a flashing yellow indication (proceed with caution) to signify a permitted left turn. No new definitions...just applying two concepts into one application.
Quote from: hbelkins on January 04, 2013, 10:36:41 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on January 04, 2013, 09:38:11 PM
The only time you can proceed after stopping on a red light is when you're turning right.
In Kentucky, you can turn left on red if you're turning from a one-way street onto another one-way street.
Pretty sure that's true anywhere. Logically, it's the same as turning right on a conventional intersection. As long as you don't cross a lane of on-coming traffic on both your road and the intersecting road, it's usually allowed.
Quote from: Mr_Northside on January 05, 2013, 03:08:52 PM
Quote from: kphoger on January 05, 2013, 02:01:29 PM
Quote from: roadfro on January 05, 2013, 01:46:06 AM
Quote from: doofy103 on January 04, 2013, 08:20:22 PM
If you have a yellow light, you have the right of way, or at the very least your right of way is soon coming to an end (b/c the light will soon turn red)
According to Michgan's DOT site, the flashing yellow arrow means you dont have the right away and must yield to uncoming traffic. This is confusing to most drivers I would think.
B/c every other time you have a "yellow anything" it means you still have the right of way. Flashing yellow beacon, yellow light on a regular traffic light etc. So if I had a flashing yellow arrow I would think, I still have the right of way and stop if I can safely do so until the next green arrow comes on.
I don't see how that would be any more confusing to drivers any than seeing a circular green and assuming you have right of way to turn when you still are supposed to yield.
{emphasis added}
You hit the nail on the head there. People don't think it's OK to turn left in front of oncoming traffic just because they have a circular green light, so why would they think it's OK to do so with a flashing yellow arrow?
I look at it the other way around. I don't know why people would assume they HAVE to yield at a FYA. It goes back to an earlier point here that a flashing yellow circular pretty much functions as a green light except with a "proceed with caution" feel to it. Adding an arrow to that [should] simply modifies it to include protected turns as well.
I can't think of anything about the parts of an FYA that would lead me to think yielding to oncoming traffic was a part of its function:
Flashing yellow circulars indicate to proceed (albeit with caution), and Flashing red indicates coming to a complete stop like a stop sign So, flashing does not have any "yield" aspects to it.
Yellow(arrow or ball), when solid simply indicates that your signal is about to turn red. And prior to the FYA, Flashing Yellow indicated to proceed, but with caution. So there isn't really anything about yellow that inherently has any "yield" aspects to it.
And finally, the Arrow, by it's very nature (at least prior to the FYA, and especially for left turns) is what explicitly tells you that you don't have to yield; that you're turn movements are protected.
QuoteIf anything, people understand a flashing yellow light of any variety to mean 'watch out', which is very much in concert with the laws on the books. Most flashing yellow light laws say something like "may proceed only with caution'; in fact, 'right of way' is a rarely used term in US law.
Agreed... though "watch out" and "Proceed with caution" DOES NOT EQUAL "assume you have to yield". Especially with a modifier (the arrow) to the signal indicating that there is an element of protection to the left turn lane.
I guess one of the main cornerstones of my position is that using an arrow in a yield situation is kind of oxymoronic. Which is why, if I came upon to a FYA with no prior knowledge of it, I certainly would not deduce that it functions the same as a green ball.
Of course, after being in at least 2 discussions about it, I certainly can't claim to not know how it's intended to work.
Quote from: kphoger on January 05, 2013, 02:57:09 PM
I'd still contend that most drivers didn't/don't know that a left-pointing arrow always referred to a protected turn, and also that the meaning of a yellow light (that yellow=caution) would naturally supercede any such knowledge.
I can't imagine how such drivers could be so dumb (and I'm not trying to be as insulating as that sounds). That's bascially what the arrow IS.
And once again, "caution" is not the same as "Assume you have to yield to oncoming traffic" (at least in my opinion.)
Playing the advocate here:
Other times you have a "yellow" light or arrow:
1) solid yellow ball, usually after a green light, therefore you still have the ROW (although it's coming to an end).
2) yellow arrow, usually after a green arrow, therefore you still have the ROW (although it's coming to an end).
3) flashing yellow ball, at a blinking stoplight, means you have the ROW, other side has flashing red, which they don't have the ROW.
4) flashing beacon, means you have the ROW.
So, one would think coming up to a FYA, you would have the ROW. I don't think how this can be safer considering people think "Yield" signs mean beat the other guy to the punch. It seems the MUTCD is getting to specific.
In Florida, from what I have seen, is the only state to paint black lane striping between the white broken lane lines.
Other states are using black borders around the white broken line, but I have never seen it used alternatively with the white lines except on Florida highways.
Quote from: roadman65 on January 06, 2013, 01:05:02 PM
In Florida, from what I have seen, is the only state to paint black lane striping between the white broken lane lines.
Other states are using black borders around the white broken line, but I have never seen it used alternatively with the white lines except on Florida highways.
Ohio did it Florida-style once on I-270 from about MM 2 to MM 9. They're reconstructing it now, again in PCCP, but I don't think they're going to do black lines on the new surface.
Quote from: vtk on January 06, 2013, 01:33:00 PM
Quote from: roadman65 on January 06, 2013, 01:05:02 PM
In Florida, from what I have seen, is the only state to paint black lane striping between the white broken lane lines.
Other states are using black borders around the white broken line, but I have never seen it used alternatively with the white lines except on Florida highways.
Ohio did it Florida-style once on I-270 from about MM 2 to MM 9. They're reconstructing it now, again in PCCP, but I don't think they're going to do black lines on the new surface.
NY does it on concrete roads. Interesting tid-bit FL used to have the black line connect to each broken white line during the 80s. From the 90s on up til today, it's a black broken line just after the white broken one.
Yeah, I remember it was black-white-black- etc. Now you see it as black-white-space black-white-space-etc. since the 90s like you say.
I do remember GA did it when I-95 first opened between I-16 and US 17 near Savanah, GA as that road was concrete back in the 70's. I have not seen GA do it since.
Quote from: KEK Inc. on January 06, 2013, 04:50:24 AM
Quote from: hbelkins on January 04, 2013, 10:36:41 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on January 04, 2013, 09:38:11 PM
The only time you can proceed after stopping on a red light is when you're turning right.
In Kentucky, you can turn left on red if you're turning from a one-way street onto another one-way street.
Pretty sure that's true anywhere. Logically, it's the same as turning right on a conventional intersection. As long as you don't cross a lane of on-coming traffic on both your road and the intersecting road, it's usually allowed.
Unfortunately, it's not true everywhere. I know it's illegal in North Carolina and the District of Columbia. I think a few other states ban it too, but I don't recall which ones. The other thread someone linked probably addresses it.
Quote from: 1995hoo on January 06, 2013, 09:54:30 PM
Quote from: KEK Inc. on January 06, 2013, 04:50:24 AM
Quote from: hbelkins on January 04, 2013, 10:36:41 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on January 04, 2013, 09:38:11 PM
The only time you can proceed after stopping on a red light is when you're turning right.
In Kentucky, you can turn left on red if you're turning from a one-way street onto another one-way street.
Pretty sure that's true anywhere. Logically, it's the same as turning right on a conventional intersection. As long as you don't cross a lane of on-coming traffic on both your road and the intersecting road, it's usually allowed.
Unfortunately, it's not true everywhere. I know it's illegal in North Carolina and the District of Columbia. I think a few other states ban it too, but I don't recall which ones. The other thread someone linked probably addresses it.
I believe 5 states, including NJ, do not allow it.
Quote from: roadman65 on January 06, 2013, 01:05:02 PM
In Florida, from what I have seen, is the only state to paint black lane striping between the white broken lane lines.
Other states are using black borders around the white broken line, but I have never seen it used alternatively with the white lines except on Florida highways.
Many states do black/white alternate. NJ has been doing it recently. Delaware as well...although they do it backwards for some reason - black then white, not white then black.
Quote from: roadman65 on January 06, 2013, 09:05:45 PM
Yeah, I remember it was black-white-black- etc. Now you see it as black-white-space black-white-space-etc. since the 90s like you say.
I do remember GA did it when I-95 first opened between I-16 and US 17 near Savanah, GA as that road was concrete back in the 70's. I have not seen GA do it since.
I want to say that Michigan did it (at least on I-75 between Detroit & Toledo) up until the early 70s on their concrete freeways as well. Can anyone confirm/deny???
Quote from: doofy103 on January 06, 2013, 10:02:28 AM
4) flashing beacon, means you have the ROW.
Say what? Hopefully nobody ever puts a flashing beacon near a STOP sign, then.
I know these are in other states but, only in Indiana they have lights under most BGS's and they usually don't even work.
Quote from: roadman65 on January 06, 2013, 01:05:02 PM
In Florida, from what I have seen, is the only state to paint black lane striping between the white broken lane lines.
Other states are using black borders around the white broken line, but I have never seen it used alternatively with the white lines except on Florida highways.
Oklahoma does it too.
Quote from: roadman65 on January 06, 2013, 01:05:02 PM
In Florida, from what I have seen, is the only state to paint black lane striping between the white broken lane lines.
Other states are using black borders around the white broken line, but I have never seen it used alternatively with the white lines except on Florida highways.
Some newly-repaved sections of freeway in the Los Angeles area have them.
Quote from: Scott5114 on January 07, 2013, 12:49:47 PM
Quote from: roadman65 on January 06, 2013, 01:05:02 PM
In Florida, from what I have seen, is the only state to paint black lane striping between the white broken lane lines.
Other states are using black borders around the white broken line, but I have never seen it used alternatively with the white lines except on Florida highways.
Oklahoma does it too.
Arkansas experimented with that in the Little Rock area in the 1980s.
I thought it was a good idea in Florida, where the concrete was especially bleached and the center line could be seen up the way in daytime.
Quote from: silverback1065 on January 07, 2013, 11:45:49 AM
I know these are in other states but, only in Indiana they have lights under most BGS's and they usually don't even work.
WIth the exception of the Big Dig (I-90/I-93) system, and some lsolated locations along the MassPike, Massachusetts no longer has any illuminated BGS panels (the last ones - on Route 2 approaching the Hairpin Turn - were replaced with non-illuminated BGS panels in 2007). And the remaining illuminated BGSes along the MassPike will likely go away when the signs and supports are replaced beginning in 2015.
Quote from: roadman65 on January 06, 2013, 01:05:02 PM
In Florida, from what I have seen, is the only state to paint black lane striping between the white broken lane lines.
Other states are using black borders around the white broken line, but I have never seen it used alternatively with the white lines except on Florida highways.
NJ Turnpike does not maintain a lot of concrete - Driscoll Bridge is probably the longest stretch. They experimented with a wide black stripe with a narrower white stripe on top, which would be the "borders" you speak of. They found it to be a waste of paint and made it easier for the white to peel away (paint on top of paint). They are now going to the "Florida" version, white followed by black. Travel the Driscoll and you'll see.
Wow, this thread really blew up!
As for the FYA, I've never seen one in person, although I can think of quite a few local intersections that could use one. What would make a left turn with one any different then turning left at a flashing yellow ball or solid green ball? You don't automatically assume that a flashing yellow ball or solid green ball mean that the opposing direction has a flashing (or steady) red ball. Left turns are supposed to yield to oncoming through traffic, so how does an arrow change that? To me it says "turn after yielding to oncoming traffic". FYI, we already have a thread on the FYA here (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=2983.0).
The NY Thruway uses the "line-black" method of striping the PCC surface between Rochester and Canandaigua:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gribblenation.net%2Fnyroutes%2Fimages%2Fphotos%2Froutes%2F090i%2F090i-14501w.jpg&hash=4f94ec3417ed428243b09059e80af08e901a9f96)
The new PCC section between Weedsport and Baldwinsville has a portion of the PCC ground out instead of using black paint:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gribblenation.net%2Fnyroutes%2Fimages%2Fphotos%2Froutes%2F090i%2F090i-19535e.jpg&hash=6b7f5dd013cc83661293aa28bfc164b737d5bb89)
While I was looking for the previous two pictures, I came across a PCC section I was unaware of near Buffalo:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gribblenation.net%2Fnyroutes%2Fimages%2Fphotos%2Froutes%2F090i%2F090i-06983e.jpg&hash=438423bcb05a3b4315f25c8a814ea732b8ea80bc)
Photo Credits: Gribblenation (http://www.gribblenation.net/nyroutes/jct/090i.htm)
My contribution to the original topic is PennDOT using "Bridges May Be Icy" signs along freeways on both sides of the road before every single bridge. To me, it's a huge waste of money.
Quote from: roadman65 on January 06, 2013, 01:05:02 PM
In Florida, from what I have seen, is the only state to paint black lane striping between the white broken lane lines.
Is Florida the only state to do it on older sun-bleached asphalt as well as concrete?
http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ll=26.927411,-80.077369&spn=0.008724,0.016512&gl=us&t=m&z=17&layer=c&cbll=26.927411,-80.077369&panoid=fgDw1QnNJzJwNbYq3iZMPA&cbp=12,147.73,,0,1.35
Quote from: silverback1065 on January 07, 2013, 11:45:49 AM
I know these are in other states but, only in Indiana they have lights under most BGS's and they usually don't even work.
Didn't Indiana decide to turn off lights on BGS a couple years ago? The earlier relatively-new BGS at the westside 465 area/new airport terminal interchange with I-70 have lights but those no longer are turned on, while more recent signs in the same area just don't have lights. Other installations in the state have had lights in some places and not in others--for example, I think I recall that the signs at the I-70/US 27 SPUI were installed with lighting that is now turned off.
Interestingly, some scattered signs that are still lighted are on former INDOT right-of-way that was ceded to local control--an example is the Harrison Bridge just into Lafayette where US 231 moved in 2001 to another alignment (which will also be bypassed now); the lighted button-copy overheads on the Lafayette side are still lighted at night, with the US 231 shield pried off since summer 2001 of course.
Quote from: roadman on January 07, 2013, 02:42:47 PM
WIth the exception of the Big Dig (I-90/I-93) system, and some lsolated locations along the MassPike, Massachusetts no longer has any illuminated BGS panels (the last ones - on Route 2 approaching the Hairpin Turn - were replaced with non-illuminated BGS panels in 2007). And the remaining illuminated BGSes along the MassPike will likely go away when the signs and supports are replaced beginning in 2015.
Lighted BGS were always very rare in Massachusetts--traveling when young, I was surprised how common lighted BGS were in some other states compared to Mass.
Are any of the BGS still lighted on the C-D roads of I-495 either side of the Merrimack River? I recall that they once were, only for the ones that were just past the river on either side, probably due to the curvature of the roadway as it swung back out from under the mainline (and headlights wouldn't be shining on the sign from far enough back). That always seemed like evidence of thoughtful design--lighted signs where really needed; not overkill and not missing what's needed.
Lighted overheads really aren't needed in this era of reflective signs. West Virginia still lights its overheads, even those where button copy has been replaced with reflective signs.
Quote from: roadman65 on January 06, 2013, 01:05:02 PM
In Florida, from what I have seen, is the only state to paint black lane striping between the white broken lane lines.
Other states are using black borders around the white broken line, but I have never seen it used alternatively with the white lines except on Florida highways.
I have seen both methods used in South Carolina...
The first few miles of I-20 from the GA state line up to the US 25/SC 121 interchange (Exit 5), as well as the six-lane concrete portion of I-95 in the Florence area, have the black borders on either side of the white line. Just like how neighboring GA does it state-wide on their concrete.
Everywhere else that I've seen in SC, they do it just like the photos of NY that Michael posted, however the black line is probably only 2/3 to 3/4 of the length of the white line.
Quote from: NE2 on January 08, 2013, 01:55:21 PM
Is Florida the only state to do it on older sun-bleached asphalt as well as concrete?
http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ll=26.927411,-80.077369&spn=0.008724,0.016512&gl=us&t=m&z=17&layer=c&cbll=26.927411,-80.077369&panoid=fgDw1QnNJzJwNbYq3iZMPA&cbp=12,147.73,,0,1.35
I remember seeing these on asphalt I-75 in North FL way back in the early 90s before they widened it to six lanes. And I haven't seen it anywhere else either. But that could be because pretty much everywhere you go, they use a plentiful locally-obtained aggregate base for asphalt pavement. And in FL, that base happens to include seashells, which are probably bleached by the sun quicker than other aggregates.
Is this unique to only Michigan with the backlit overhead traffic control signs? In this photo it is the ONE WAY sign, but have seen Left only arrows and even STOP signs as well in the State of Michigan?
https://maps.google.com/maps?q=Detroit,+MI&hl=en&ll=42.315686,-83.086756&spn=0.004387,0.006427&sll=27.698638,-83.804601&sspn=10.900733,21.643066&oq=det&t=h&hnear=Detroit,+Wayne,+Michigan&z=17&layer=c&cbll=42.316001,-83.084081&panoid=qNreYdAXTU-lviLYDnSZzA&cbp=12,71.41,,0,-0.09
Quote from: roadman65 on January 10, 2013, 01:32:56 PM
Is this unique to only Michigan with the backlit overhead traffic control signs? In this photo it is the ONE WAY sign, but have seen Left only arrows and even STOP signs as well in the State of Michigan?
https://maps.google.com/maps?q=Detroit,+MI&hl=en&ll=42.315686,-83.086756&spn=0.004387,0.006427&sll=27.698638,-83.804601&sspn=10.900733,21.643066&oq=det&t=h&hnear=Detroit,+Wayne,+Michigan&z=17&layer=c&cbll=42.316001,-83.084081&panoid=qNreYdAXTU-lviLYDnSZzA&cbp=12,71.41,,0,-0.09
Chicago has them as well, but not to the extent they are used in Michigan. The rest of Illinois doesn't have them as far as I've seen.
Occasionally in Texas there are also blinking yield signs
I have seen something in Kansas that no one else does. On all state highways intersecting county roads, if they have directional guides for towns and cities the other road leads to, then the word "County Road" appears above the control city.
I guess its Kansas' way of saying "You are leaving the state road system."
Quote from: Steve on January 07, 2013, 06:26:46 PM
Quote from: roadman65 on January 06, 2013, 01:05:02 PM
In Florida, from what I have seen, is the only state to paint black lane striping between the white broken lane lines.
Other states are using black borders around the white broken line, but I have never seen it used alternatively with the white lines except on Florida highways.
NJ Turnpike does not maintain a lot of concrete - Driscoll Bridge is probably the longest stretch. They experimented with a wide black stripe with a narrower white stripe on top, which would be the "borders" you speak of. They found it to be a waste of paint and made it easier for the white to peel away (paint on top of paint). They are now going to the "Florida" version, white followed by black. Travel the Driscoll and you'll see.
Actually not! Check out my youtube video from last June. It does not have as you say in it, unless what you are talking about is very recently added.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1aqE44i7xWY
Quote from: roadman65 on January 12, 2013, 05:08:18 PM
I have seen something in Kansas that no one else does. On all state highways intersecting county roads, if they have directional guides for towns and cities the other road leads to, then the word "County Road" appears above the control city.
I guess its Kansas' way of saying "You are leaving the state road system."
Nebraska does something similar. On guide signs for anything that is reached by a county road it says "Via County Road" beneath the destination.
Quote from: roadman65 on January 12, 2013, 05:08:18 PM
I have seen something in Kansas that no one else does.
I .. see .. dead .. people ..
Quote from: roadman65 on January 10, 2013, 01:32:56 PM
Is this unique to only Michigan with the backlit overhead traffic control signs? In this photo it is the ONE WAY sign, but have seen Left only arrows and even STOP signs as well in the State of Michigan?
https://maps.google.com/maps?q=Detroit,+MI&hl=en&ll=42.315686,-83.086756&spn=0.004387,0.006427&sll=27.698638,-83.804601&sspn=10.900733,21.643066&oq=det&t=h&hnear=Detroit,+Wayne,+Michigan&z=17&layer=c&cbll=42.316001,-83.084081&panoid=qNreYdAXTU-lviLYDnSZzA&cbp=12,71.41,,0,-0.09
They also use backlit signs a little bit in Ohio, mainly the Cincinnati area. However, Michigan's way of marking turning lights with the backlit "LEFT", "RIGHT" and sometimes even "THRU" rectangles mounted directly on top of the signal seems quite unique, as I have NEVER seen it outside of Michigan.
Quote from: jeffandnicole on December 14, 2012, 08:57:39 AM
There was one on DE 7 near Hockessin as well in the 90's...it's now a regular traffic light. In fact, I think there was 3 in New Castle County; none of which remain.
In case anyone was still interested, I just remembered to post about this. After a recent visit to Delaware, I drove through that third location that had the flashing green and recalled it. It was at the intersection of Stoney Batter Road and Middleton Drive (http://goo.gl/maps/3uzcq) in the Pike Creek Valley.
Quote from: jeffandnicole on January 07, 2013, 08:34:43 AM
Many states do black/white alternate. NJ has been doing it recently. Delaware as well...although they do it backwards for some reason - black then white, not white then black.
I have seen this somewhere out west recently. new I-580 in Nevada, maybe??
I do believe that Texas is the only state to use "IH" for interstate designations.
I know many either use the letter "I" or simply "Route" like the North-East and some Middle Atlantic States even in signage on local roads.
Quote from: roadman65 on January 23, 2013, 06:23:31 PM
I do believe that Texas is the only state to use "IH" for interstate designations.
I know many either use the letter "I" or simply "Route" like the North-East and some Middle Atlantic States even in signage on local roads.
Wisconsin - "Highway" regardless of route status. Hwy H, Hwy 16, Hwy 141, and of course, Hwy 94. And yes, I have seen "Hwy 94" for I-94 in Wisconsin.
That would explain why these states are dead against having duplicate route numbers, and yet the ones that identify the designation before it do not care.
Quote from: roadman65 on January 23, 2013, 06:23:31 PM
I do believe that Texas is the only state to use "IH" for interstate designations.
I know many either use the letter "I" or simply "Route" like the North-East and some Middle Atlantic States even in signage on local roads.
I want to say that in Ohio over the years, there have been a few stray IH's and IR's on mileage signs.
Newer signs have the I-shield on them like the two on I-71 showing the distance to I-270 south of Columbus (northbound) and the distance to I-275 at the 89 mm (southbound).
Oh, and Kentucky with their traffic signals using a Tunnel Visor for their yellow signals, while using the cut outs for the red and green signals. I do not see any other state doing this. They may mix and match signal heads with the two types of visors, but to use a different ones for each color on the same head in a normal basis hardly.
Quote from: agentsteel53 on January 23, 2013, 09:26:39 AM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on January 07, 2013, 08:34:43 AM
Many states do black/white alternate. NJ has been doing it recently. Delaware as well...although they do it backwards for some reason - black then white, not white then black.
I have seen this somewhere out west recently. new I-580 in Nevada, maybe??
Not there. NDOT has just started using contrasting paint on concrete pavements. Their approach has been thin strips of black paint on the left and right side of each white line. This has been used on the I-580/US 395 north widening in Reno and the reconstructed pavement on I-80 in downtown Reno, in addition to new I-580.
If I am not mistaken, both California and Southern Nevada also use ceramic buttons instead of the standard paint lane striping. I have not seen these used anywhere else, although FDOT was experimenting with them on both FL 50 and I-4 in certain parts of Orlando.
Not in one state only, but in one region of the country.
^I think Texas uses these too, especially in construction zones.
Quote from: roadman65 on January 06, 2013, 01:05:02 PM
In Florida, from what I have seen, is the only state to paint black lane striping between the white broken lane lines.
Other states are using black borders around the white broken line, but I have never seen it used alternatively with the white lines except on Florida highways.
Alabama has started doing it recently on concrete pavement and bridge decks.
QuoteI think Texas uses these too, especially in construction zones.
Interstates in Texas built in the late 60s that had concrete pavement had button lane markings until they were overlaid with asphalt.
How 'bout Florida's sometimes odd uses of 18x18 9-reflector yellow diamonds. They sometimes use them for bridge ends, where a striped marker would typically be used, and once I saw several mounted at a 7ft height on the right side of the road; if I remember correctly, it was for a lane ending.
Also, Florida using green reflectors on the back of median-tip deliniators. This is something that I really applaud Florida for (median tip marking); becuase other states don't do it, and they really need to, bacause median tip are hard to see at night.
Quote from: codyg1985 on January 26, 2013, 10:32:31 PM
^I think Texas uses these too, especially in construction zones.
I've seen them, but not since I was a child. (A very long time ago....)
Quote from: Brian556 on January 27, 2013, 12:09:17 AM
How 'bout Florida's sometimes odd uses of 18x18 9-reflector yellow diamonds. They sometimes use them for bridge ends, where a striped marker would typically be used, and once I saw several mounted at a 7ft height on the right side of the road; if I remember correctly, it was for a lane ending.
New Mexico uses them synonymously with "oh hey, something interesting is happening here".
Minnesota (if I remember right) uses an odd yellow-and-black reflective marker at the beginning and end of guardrails. One is a triangle pointing down, the other is pointing up. Never could figure out what those were for.
Quote from: Brian556 on January 27, 2013, 12:09:17 AM
QuoteI think Texas uses these too, especially in construction zones.
Interstates in Texas built in the late 60s that had concrete pavement had button lane markings until they were overlaid with asphalt.
How 'bout Florida's sometimes odd uses of 18x18 9-reflector yellow diamonds. They sometimes use them for bridge ends, where a striped marker would typically be used, and once I saw several mounted at a 7ft height on the right side of the road; if I remember correctly, it was for a lane ending.
Also, Florida using green reflectors on the back of median-tip deliniators. This is something that I really applaud Florida for (median tip marking); becuase other states don't do it, and they really need to, bacause median tip are hard to see at night.
Yeah, it is quite hard to find a median break at night. The green reflector does help a lot, especially when there is no turn lane present to distinguish a break.
Quote from: Scott5114 on January 27, 2013, 03:26:49 AM
Minnesota (if I remember right) uses an odd yellow-and-black reflective marker at the beginning and end of guardrails. One is a triangle pointing down, the other is pointing up. Never could figure out what those were for.
I've started becoming aware of just how many little extra signs like that Minnesota uses. I assumed the little guard rail signs were to alert drivers (both cars and snowmobiles) of the guard rail's location when it's completely covered with snow.
SC used to paint reflectors on the interstate overpass piers. Some still exist today, but now mostly faded behind normal reflector signs that presently alert drivers of the piers.
Then, MN. I see from photos and google, paints all (or most )of its traffic signal poles yellow up to the mast arm.
Quote from: NE2 on December 14, 2012, 08:05:42 AM
Quote from: SSOWorld on December 14, 2012, 07:10:26 AM
Only in Wisconsin - one piece sine salads
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.alpsroads.net%2Froads%2Fri%2Fus_6%2Fw116.jpg&hash=186dd685d15e6dc817a24101572953459af6643b)
This and others on http://www.alpsroads.net/roads/ri/us_6/
Hey, it saves on fasteners. :D
Also, RI likes to use 4x4's for sign posts.
Only in Georgia are there police every 2 miles along I-75 ready to issue $809 tickets and mandatory court appearances for going 21mph over in the middle of the night with no traffic around for miles.
Quote from: PHX06 on January 30, 2013, 01:45:32 AM
Only in Georgia are there police every 2 miles along I-75 ready to issue $809 tickets and mandatory court appearances for going 21mph over in the middle of the night with no traffic around for miles.
Sounds like Ohio.
Quote from: PHX06 on January 30, 2013, 01:45:32 AM
Only in Georgia are there police every 2 miles along I-75 ready to issue $809 tickets and mandatory court appearances for going 21mph over in the middle of the night with no traffic around for miles.
Ohio says hi.
Ohio on holiday weekends, maybe.
I stand corrected. Only in Georgia, Ohio, and Virginia**
It seems like there's a state that's notorious for unreasonable ticketing in every region of the country, actually. I've heard rumors of $2,000+ out-of-stater "superspeeder" tickets issued in Virginia, and you all are now claiming Ohio is the same.
Georgia is a very well-placed speed trap, as lots of traffic is heading through it to Florida, and apparently lots of us are going fast. You can't drive I-75 for ten miles without seeing either a cop waiting or somebody being pulled over. GA also uses cruel techniques such as one cop on the top of an overpass and another at the end of the onramp, as well as extensive 55mph construction zones that have NO work going on for weeks.
Quote from: PHX06 on January 31, 2013, 05:24:59 AM
I stand corrected. Only in Georgia, Ohio, and Virginia**
It seems like there's a state that's notorious for unreasonable ticketing in every region of the country, actually. I've heard rumors of $2,000+ out-of-stater "superspeeder" tickets issued in Virginia, and you all are now claiming Ohio is the same.
Georgia is a very well-placed speed trap, as lots of traffic is heading through it to Florida, and apparently lots of us are going fast. You can't drive I-75 for ten miles without seeing either a cop waiting or somebody being pulled over. GA also uses cruel techniques such as one cop on the top of an overpass and another at the end of the onramp, as well as extensive 55mph construction zones that have NO work going on for weeks.
Isn't it unconstitutional to charge out-of-state drivers a higher fine than in-state drivers? "Equal justice under the law" and all that?
I do remember an awful lot of speeding people in Georgia.
Quote from: kphoger on January 28, 2013, 12:47:02 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on January 27, 2013, 03:26:49 AM
Minnesota (if I remember right) uses an odd yellow-and-black reflective marker at the beginning and end of guardrails. One is a triangle pointing down, the other is pointing up. Never could figure out what those were for.
I've started becoming aware of just how many little extra signs like that Minnesota uses. I assumed the little guard rail signs were to alert drivers (both cars and snowmobiles) of the guard rail's location when it's completely covered with snow.
Those are for snow plows to know when to raise or lower their blades due to the guardrail. Those signs are also sometimes used to show when curbs begin and end (for the same reason).
Quote from: roadman65 on January 26, 2013, 09:54:25 PM
If I am not mistaken, both California and Southern Nevada also use ceramic buttons instead of the standard paint lane striping. I have not seen these used anywhere else, although FDOT was experimenting with them on both FL 50 and I-4 in certain parts of Orlando.
Not in one state only, but in one region of the country.
Are you referring to Botts dots? I recall seeing those on Kauai in the Lihue area, though it's been almost 10 years since I visited there so I have no idea whether they're still in use.
A few for Minnesota that I don't think have been mentioned...
- Extensive use of "kicker posts" behind their u-channel-mounted signs. (Example: http://goo.gl/maps/muFG8 )
- Use of those yellow-on-black reflectors on pretty much any median opening (Pretty much all Keep Right signs have one attached to them).
- All state highways (including US and Interstate highways) are referred to as "Trunk Highways" by MnDOT. (Interstates sometimes are exempt from this, but I think officially I-94 is TH 94 to MnDOT).
- County highways are known as CSAH or CR (County State-Aid Highway, pronounced "cuh-saw" in engineering lingo, or County Road) depending on their source of funding (Examples: CSAH 81 vs. CR 116 in Hennepin County).
Quote from: PHX06 on January 31, 2013, 05:24:59 AM
I stand corrected. Only in Georgia, Ohio, and Virginia**
Georgia is a very well-placed speed trap, as lots of traffic is heading through it to Florida, and apparently lots of us are going fast. You can't drive I-75 for ten miles without seeing either a cop waiting or somebody being pulled over. GA also uses cruel techniques such as one cop on the top of an overpass and another at the end of the onramp, as well as extensive 55mph construction zones that have NO work going on for weeks.
Sometimes it also gets that way on I-95. I remember just south of one of the interchanges in Brunswick some local deputy sheriff slowed down to a crawl right in front of me before he was getting ready to pull over into the median to watch for speeders. This damn cop was blocking traffic in the passing lane!
:angry: :banghead:
I was ready to tell this cop to move his ass! I couldn't wait to get out of Georgia after all that paranoia!
Quote from: twinsfan87 on January 31, 2013, 01:49:50 PM
A few for Minnesota that I don't think have been mentioned...
- Extensive use of "kicker posts" behind their u-channel-mounted signs. (Example: http://goo.gl/maps/muFG8 )
Nevada does this very frequently as well.
Quote- All state highways (including US and Interstate highways) are referred to as "Trunk Highways" by MnDOT. (Interstates sometimes are exempt from this, but I think officially I-94 is TH 94 to MnDOT).
does Wisconsin do this? I know back in the day they did. their first pre-US system was all 'trunk highways', and in fact the route markers specifically said so.
(//www.aaroads.com/shields/img/WI/WI19190111i1.jpg)
Quote from: agentsteel53 on January 31, 2013, 02:04:45 PM
Quote from: twinsfan87 on January 31, 2013, 01:49:50 PM
A few for Minnesota that I don't think have been mentioned...
- Extensive use of "kicker posts" behind their u-channel-mounted signs. (Example: http://goo.gl/maps/muFG8 )
Nevada does this very frequently as well.
Quote- All state highways (including US and Interstate highways) are referred to as "Trunk Highways" by MnDOT. (Interstates sometimes are exempt from this, but I think officially I-94 is TH 94 to MnDOT).
does Wisconsin do this? I know back in the day they did. their first pre-US system was all 'trunk highways', and in fact the route markers specifically said so.
(//www.aaroads.com/shields/img/WI/WI19190111i1.jpg)
For Wisconsin, It is STH for State Trunk Highway, CTH for County Trunk Highway and IH for interstate Highway.
Quote from: agentsteel53 on January 31, 2013, 02:04:45 PM
Quote from: twinsfan87 on January 31, 2013, 01:49:50 PM
A few for Minnesota that I don't think have been mentioned...
- Extensive use of "kicker posts" behind their u-channel-mounted signs. (Example: http://goo.gl/maps/muFG8 )
Nevada does this very frequently as well.
But in Nevada the signs are mounted on round signpost. They seem to have an aversion to the usual I-beam signpost for interstate signage.
Which version did Arizona use in its Button-copy days??
Quote from: kkt on January 31, 2013, 12:36:10 PM
Quote from: PHX06 on January 31, 2013, 05:24:59 AM
I stand corrected. Only in Georgia, Ohio, and Virginia**
It seems like there's a state that's notorious for unreasonable ticketing in every region of the country, actually. I've heard rumors of $2,000+ out-of-stater "superspeeder" tickets issued in Virginia, and you all are now claiming Ohio is the same.
Georgia is a very well-placed speed trap, as lots of traffic is heading through it to Florida, and apparently lots of us are going fast. You can't drive I-75 for ten miles without seeing either a cop waiting or somebody being pulled over. GA also uses cruel techniques such as one cop on the top of an overpass and another at the end of the onramp, as well as extensive 55mph construction zones that have NO work going on for weeks.
Isn't it unconstitutional to charge out-of-state drivers a higher fine than in-state drivers? "Equal justice under the law" and all that?
I do remember an awful lot of speeding people in Georgia.
I'm sure the fine would be the same for an in-state driver. I assume it's just mainly out-of-staters who are pulled over–or at least it's mainly out-of-staters who actually end up with tickets.
Quote from: kphoger on January 31, 2013, 03:05:23 PM
Quote from: kkt on January 31, 2013, 12:36:10 PM
Quote from: PHX06 on January 31, 2013, 05:24:59 AM
I stand corrected. Only in Georgia, Ohio, and Virginia**
It seems like there's a state that's notorious for unreasonable ticketing in every region of the country, actually. I've heard rumors of $2,000+ out-of-stater "superspeeder" tickets issued in Virginia, and you all are now claiming Ohio is the same.
Georgia is a very well-placed speed trap, as lots of traffic is heading through it to Florida, and apparently lots of us are going fast. You can't drive I-75 for ten miles without seeing either a cop waiting or somebody being pulled over. GA also uses cruel techniques such as one cop on the top of an overpass and another at the end of the onramp, as well as extensive 55mph construction zones that have NO work going on for weeks.
Isn't it unconstitutional to charge out-of-state drivers a higher fine than in-state drivers? "Equal justice under the law" and all that?
I do remember an awful lot of speeding people in Georgia.
I'm sure the fine would be the same for an in-state driver. I assume it's just mainly out-of-staters who are pulled over–or at least it's mainly out-of-staters who actually end up with tickets.
A few years ago Virginia had something called "abusive driver fees" that applied only to IN-state drivers. State law treated them as "civil remedial fees" to try to get around the constitutional issues that would have arisen otherwise (had they been criminal penalties, there would have been the issue of them being out of proportion to the offense committed, among other issues). They only applied to traffic offenses that are treated as crimes, such as reckless driving or DUI; they didn't apply to things like running a stop sign or simple speeding (less than 20 mph over the posted speed limit or under 80 mph in a 65- or 70-mph zone). People raised hell about them for a ton of reasons, including the issue of subjecting in-state drivers to them while not imposing them on out-of-staters, and the circuit courts split on whether they were or were not constitutional.
The other thing that infuriated people is that the House of Delegates member who was a chief sponsor of the bill enacting the fees, David Albo, is an attorney who specializes in traffic ticket defense work (our General Assembly is a part-time legislature). People quite rightly viewed it as a massive conflict of interest for him to sponsor a bill that would cause more people to need to hire traffic attorneys. (Unfortunately, his district keeps re-electing the guy.)
The uproar was vitriolic enough that the General Assembly rather quickly passed a bill repealing them and the Commonwealth refunded all the fees people paid. I believe our Supreme Court never addressed the issue of their constitutionality prior to the repeal, though I could be wrong.
According to Urban Dictionary, the large ceramic buttons used to form semi-hard barriers, like marking the edge of curved pavement at an intersection, are, somewhat crudely, called Texas titties. I've seen them, but they're not common. I never thought about whether they're used in other states.
These are definitely not the ones used to mark lanes. They're roughly hemispherical and several inches tall. You don't want to go over them at any significant speed. Are these used in others states?
I know what you're talking about. They're rare in Oklahoma, but do exist occasionally. Are they the same as Mexican topes?
Quote from: Scott5114 on January 31, 2013, 04:17:53 PM
I know what you're talking about. They're rare in Oklahoma, but do exist occasionally. Are they the same as Mexican topes?
I have no idea what those are. According to a search, they're very large speed bumps used in Mexico. They're meant to be driven over, so they're different.
I found an example of the buttons. It isn't the best image quality, but they're shown on Google Street View forming an island around a stop sign at FM 1776 and US 285. http://goo.gl/maps/vL7fk (http://goo.gl/maps/vL7fk) The name on Urban Dictionary was probably made by someone who's never seen them outside of Texas. I suspect they're uncommon and thereby easy to miss.
Those are used in Georgia in spots in lieu of a raised island
Topes just means speed bumps, and they range from poured concrete humps to teeny little Botts-type dots. The metal hemispheres ones you refer to are commonly used for speed bumps, especially on local streets, and are often commonly used as mentioned, to separate lanes of traffic–both at intersections to reinforce the solid-line markings, and occasionally between mainline and frontage road lanes.
It's not hard for me to find examples on GMSV, since they're so common. Here are some:
http://goo.gl/maps/HnJ3h (http://goo.gl/maps/HnJ3h)
http://goo.gl/maps/KukLd (http://goo.gl/maps/KukLd)
http://goo.gl/maps/Nh2Nf (http://goo.gl/maps/Nh2Nf)
http://goo.gl/maps/1yQjo (http://goo.gl/maps/1yQjo)
When they're used as speed bumps, it's pretty common for the metal hemisphere to get knocked off after a while, which sometimes leaves some tire-unfriendly nastiness exposed, but which usually just gives you a bumpless place for half your tires to cross.
Thanks, that's interesting.
The ones I've seen aren't painted metal, they're glassy and shiny, but those are basically the same thing. They seem to be more common in Mexico. I see them only occasionally, and most in rural areas. Thinking back, I seem to remember seeing them years ago between a main lane and a deceleration or acceleration lane in urban areas, next to the wide white stripe. All I've seen them used for recently is marking pavement edges and islands.
But that answers my question about them being used other places. I guess it shows that the information on Urban Dictionary isn't as reliable as everyone always says :-D
they might exist in California. they are used to demarcate the international boundary. I am not sure which side of the boundary they are on - there's usually 3 or 4 parallel sets across the road.
^ Yeah, I think I've seen those in very limited uses in southern Nevada. Similar applications to the GoogleMap links, where they are a reinforcement that you're not supposed to cross a line or replacing a concrete island. But they're not that common.
I just assumed the OP was referring to typical Botts Dotts, which are all over the place in Las Vegas.
Quote from: The High Plains Traveler on January 31, 2013, 02:21:12 PM
Quote from: agentsteel53 on January 31, 2013, 02:04:45 PM
Quote from: twinsfan87 on January 31, 2013, 01:49:50 PM
A few for Minnesota that I don't think have been mentioned...
- Extensive use of "kicker posts" behind their u-channel-mounted signs. (Example: http://goo.gl/maps/muFG8 )
Nevada does this very frequently as well.
But in Nevada the signs are mounted on round signpost. They seem to have an aversion to the usual I-beam signpost for interstate signage.
Nevada does use the "kicker posts" on nearly all post-mounted large signs, the most prominent example being BGSs along freeways. The two kicker posts are always angled inward so the kicker posts are anchored to the ground at a center point
NDOT has started to use I-beam posts for these signs though. I think they are more common when the ground is extremely unlevel at the place of posting.
It seems that a few Midwestern States refer to their state highways as "Trunk Highways." I believe that only New York State refers to their I-hwys, US hwys, and state hwys as "Touring Routes."
Quote from: amroad17 on February 03, 2013, 04:13:24 AM
I believe that only New York State refers to their I-hwys, US hwys, and state hwys as "Touring Routes."
AKA "Traffic Routes" in Pennsylvania, "Sign Routes" in California, and simply "Routes" in Oregon.
Quote from: NE2 on February 03, 2013, 05:13:37 AM
Quote from: amroad17 on February 03, 2013, 04:13:24 AM
I believe that only New York State refers to their I-hwys, US hwys, and state hwys as "Touring Routes."
AKA "Traffic Routes" in Pennsylvania, "Sign Routes" in California, and simply "Routes" in Oregon.
Hm. I was born and raised in California and I never heard the term "sign routes". Maybe it's a Socal thing. Or maybe it dates from when California had legislative route numbers that were almost completely unlike the posted route numbers.
Quote from: kkt on February 04, 2013, 12:39:05 PM
Hm. I was born and raised in California and I never heard the term "sign routes". Maybe it's a Socal thing. Or maybe it dates from when California had legislative route numbers that were almost completely unlike the posted route numbers.
it's bureaucratic horseshit. the average motorist doesn't know about LRNs vs sign routes, and they really shouldn't.
Quote from: kkt on February 04, 2013, 12:39:05 PM
Or maybe it dates from when California had legislative route numbers that were almost completely unlike the posted route numbers.
This.
Only in New Jersey will they use green arrows instead of green balls at signals where there is a one way street to show direction of the one way flow. In Elizabeth, NJ, on Trenton Avenue at 3rd Avenue where traffic must either turn left or right onto 3rd Avenue because Trenton Avenue becomes one way, there are two green arrows that appear when the light is green on NB Trenton Avenue to show left and right. Although, a good tool to let a motorist know that you cannot go beyond the intersection, having a green arrow to the left can tell someone that it is a protected left turn when in this case it is not.
Irvington and Newark used to have these, but went to green ball when left turn signals became more popular as that was the norm at one way streets or end of two way traffic. I would imagine the MUTCD does not approve this method anymore, and this intersection may be grandfathered in.
http://maps.google.com/maps?q=Elizabeth,+NJ&hl=en&ll=40.649867,-74.201346&spn=0.000518,0.001321&sll=27.698638,-83.804601&sspn=9.892242,21.643066&oq=eliz&t=h&hnear=Elizabeth,+Union,+New+Jersey&z=20&layer=c&cbll=40.649757,-74.201331&panoid=krTZw_mr0jT4MypQT7Xk3w&cbp=12,62.97,,0,0
Quote from: roadman65 on February 04, 2013, 06:36:39 PM
Only in New Jersey will they use green arrows instead of green balls at signals where there is a one way street to show direction of the one way flow.
This is a standard practice at signalize intersections in the District of Columbia.
Only is this state (CT) will they do anything possible toavoid putting in a left turn lane. They would even revise a signal and add in a left turn arrow phase rather than put in a left turn lane, even if there is enough pavement to do it.
Quote from: doofy103 on February 04, 2013, 09:12:01 PM
Only is this state (CT) will they do anything possible toavoid putting in a left turn lane. They would even revise a signal and add in a left turn arrow phase rather than put in a left turn lane, even if there is enough pavement to do it.
By the very nature of a left turn arrow phase, that means a left turn lane would be required.
EDIT: Unless you're talking about a split-phase sequence where all movements in one approach begin and end at the same time. This is to be avoided where not absolutely necessary, as it hinders signal timing optimization and/or progression.
Not always. Sometimes you see left turn arrows that simply hope that left turning traffic isn't stopped by through traffic. There are a couple right here in Potsdam on NY 56.
Quote from: deanej on February 05, 2013, 10:48:42 AM
Not always. Sometimes you see left turn arrows that simply hope that left turning traffic isn't stopped by through traffic. There are a couple right here in Potsdam on NY 56.
I think, though, that modern assemblies now are doing away with the left turn arrow so that it could be more standardized. I lived in New Jersey for 25 years of my life, and we could easily tell which ones are protected and which ones were not by the use of a left turn lane or "LEFT TURN SIGNAL" sign as well as the give away that traffic control arrows are usually along with another direction arrow. Most protected lefts had a 12 inch arrow beneath the normal 8 inch lens, so the shape of the head gave that one away. Now more left turn signals are being added nationwide and many road departments are now doing away with the arrows to denote one ways and do not enters.
This is what I gather. Also, remember we live in a world where common sense is defined by where you were raised and who you are around. That is why more issues with roads in addition to sprawl and more automobiles. Things now need to be more idiot proof in this century than last century.
Quote from: roadfro on February 05, 2013, 03:00:43 AM
Quote from: doofy103 on February 04, 2013, 09:12:01 PM
Only is this state (CT) will they do anything possible toavoid putting in a left turn lane. They would even revise a signal and add in a left turn arrow phase rather than put in a left turn lane, even if there is enough pavement to do it.
By the very nature of a left turn arrow phase, that means a left turn lane would be required.
There's a couple of intersections around here I know of where there is a protected left turn phase for one direction of travel (either thru a doghouse or an additional green arrow that disappears), but no left turn lane on a two lane street. Perrysville Ave / Perry Highway (US-19) had a bunch of new signals installed 2 years ago, and this situation now exists at the intersection with Highland Ave. NB traffic is just a single lane, with no turn lane, and gets a protected left via a doghouse. There could be no left turning traffic, but SB traffic has to wait an extra 30 seconds or so to get their green anyway.
And there is quite a few intersections around the PGH area where there is a 4 lane road that has no dedicated left turn lanes (the left lane is left-or-straight), but has protected phases that "assume" that there might be some left-turning traffic: http://goo.gl/maps/QUpTE (http://goo.gl/maps/QUpTE)
Quote from: Mr_Northside on February 05, 2013, 03:38:28 PM
Quote from: roadfro on February 05, 2013, 03:00:43 AM
Quote from: doofy103 on February 04, 2013, 09:12:01 PM
Only is this state (CT) will they do anything possible toavoid putting in a left turn lane. They would even revise a signal and add in a left turn arrow phase rather than put in a left turn lane, even if there is enough pavement to do it.
By the very nature of a left turn arrow phase, that means a left turn lane would be required.
There's a couple of intersections around here I know of where there is a protected left turn phase for one direction of travel (either thru a doghouse or an additional green arrow that disappears), but no left turn lane on a two lane street. Perrysville Ave / Perry Highway (US-19) had a bunch of new signals installed 2 years ago, and this situation now exists at the intersection with Highland Ave. NB traffic is just a single lane, with no turn lane, and gets a protected left via a doghouse. There could be no left turning traffic, but SB traffic has to wait an extra 30 seconds or so to get their green anyway.
And there is quite a few intersections around the PGH area where there is a 4 lane road that has no dedicated left turn lanes (the left lane is left-or-straight), but has protected phases that "assume" that there might be some left-turning traffic: http://goo.gl/maps/QUpTE (http://goo.gl/maps/QUpTE)
What irks me is many places in New Jersey have two different phases for each direction to allow left turns without having to install a left turn signal. One such exists in Raritan, NJ at the intersection of US 202 and CR 567. US 202 is a typical NJ divided highway with jughandles there, but CR 567 is a local road. It gets two phases so that it can turn left, right , and straight all at the same time, but one particular instance back in 85 where I was heading south on US 202 I had to wait longer for a red signal than I needed.
I stopped for the CR 567 signal where there were cars going waiting to cross both N and S on CR 567. The light first turned green for one direction where all of the few cars went straight across US 202 with no one turning left. Then after the other direction had turned green, the one or two vehicles proceeding there went straight across US 202 with no one else turning. CR 567 is striped for two lanes each way at the light, so there is no reason why either a protected left or full signal could have been installed. In that instance all NB and SB vehicles on CR 567 could have went at the same time and the intersection would have operated more efeciently. This kind of practice should only be used on heavily traveled roads or on single lane roads where it is known for plenty of left turns.
Now this was 27 years ago, but the situation might still exist either there or at plenty other intersections to this day where the arrows would work better than a whole separate phase.
Quote from: roadman65 on February 05, 2013, 04:14:43 PM
one particular instance back in 85 where I was heading south on US 202
Southwest? US-202 runs east—west through that intersection, right?
Quote from: roadman65 on February 05, 2013, 04:14:43 PM
without having to install a left turn signal.
[...]
there is no reason why either a protected left or full signal could have been [could not have been?] installed
But they
do have left-turn signals for CR-567 (that's First Ave, right?); otherwise drivers wouldn't
know it's OK to turn left while opposing traffic has a red light. Google Street View shows five lamps on the leftmost signal for northbound and for southbound traffic, indicating left-turn signals on both approaches. It actually sounds to me as though you would prefer having
no left-turn signal at all–which would allow "all NB and SB vehicles on CR 567 [to go] at the same time," as you said.
Quote from: kphoger on February 05, 2013, 04:52:45 PM
Quote from: roadman65 on February 05, 2013, 04:14:43 PM
one particular instance back in 85 where I was heading south on US 202
Southwest? US-202 runs east–west through that intersection, right?
Quote from: roadman65 on February 05, 2013, 04:14:43 PM
without having to install a left turn signal.
[...]
there is no reason why either a protected left or full signal could have been [could not have been?] installed
But they do have left-turn signals for CR-567 (that's First Ave, right?); otherwise drivers wouldn't know it's OK to turn left while opposing traffic has a red light. Google Street View shows five lamps on the leftmost signal for northbound and for southbound traffic, indicating left-turn signals on both approaches. It actually sounds to me as though you would prefer having no left-turn signal at all—which would allow "all NB and SB vehicles on CR 567 [to go] at the same time," as you said.
I meant signed SB US 202. No, I am not in favor of doing away with left turn signals, but I am for them here rather than the split phases. My example (even though its decades ago) supported the fact that a left turn arrow would have worked better than. I'll check out street view to see the latest configuration, though.
I just checked out GSV from NB First. It appears that arrows were added, but I have seen some NJ (and other states) use arrows on split phase operations. I cannot tell how this signal was set up, but being that the light was red when google was traveling north into the intersection there were cars heading the opposite way waiting for the same light. When google crossed the road (US 202), those vehicles were gone and the opposing signal was red with cars behind google traveling with him that were turning left. I will assume that the signal turned green first on SB First Avenue and then back to red and then green NB for First Avenue which would account for the vehicles being out of the waiting area there. Then the light was still green after google passed through the intersection to continue to allow for those still passing through the intersection.
The other possibility is that NB First Avenue might receive its left turn arrow afterward and therefore those that were heading SB on First already made it across with the signal being red so that the motorists behind the google vehicle can indeed turn left. There are some that give even protected left turn arrows at the end of the phase rather than before it.
Quote from: kphoger on February 05, 2013, 04:52:45 PM
Quote from: roadman65 on February 05, 2013, 04:14:43 PM
one particular instance back in 85 where I was heading south on US 202
Southwest? US-202 runs east—west through that intersection, right?
Quote from: roadman65 on February 05, 2013, 04:14:43 PM
without having to install a left turn signal.
[...]
there is no reason why either a protected left or full signal could have been [could not have been?] installed
But they do have left-turn signals for CR-567 (that's First Ave, right?); otherwise drivers wouldn't know it's OK to turn left while opposing traffic has a red light. Google Street View shows five lamps on the leftmost signal for northbound and for southbound traffic, indicating left-turn signals on both approaches. It actually sounds to me as though you would prefer having no left-turn signal at all–which would allow "all NB and SB vehicles on CR 567 [to go] at the same time," as you said.
Roadman65, please fact check before posting information in the future. You have been proven incorrect on many occasions, often without much work to do so. Thank you.
Admittedly, it would be hard to fact check a situation that one remembers from 1985.
But I'm still struggling to understand the situation he's describing, even imagining a hypothetcial intersection instead of that specific one. If there were no turn arrows, then how would northbound left-turning traffic know they had a protected left turn while southbound traffic was facing a red–and vice versa for the second phase? It just doesn't make sense to me.
one day, in 1973, I was turning left and there were lane stripes. or there weren't lane stripes. I forget. I also forget what state I was in. whatever, facts are for losers.
Quote from: agentsteel53 on February 05, 2013, 07:38:04 PM
one day, in 1973, I was turning left and there were lane stripes. or there weren't lane stripes. I forget. I also forget what state I was in. whatever, facts are for losers.
It is also interesting that you were driving nine years before you were born.
Quote from: kphoger on February 05, 2013, 07:34:10 PM
Admittedly, it would be hard to fact check a situation that one remembers from 1985.
But I'm still struggling to understand the situation he's describing, even imagining a hypothetcial intersection instead of that specific one. If there were no turn arrows, then how would northbound left-turning traffic know they had a protected left turn while southbound traffic was facing a red–and vice versa for the second phase? It just doesn't make sense to me.
Unfortunately, there are many cases where NJ does this. The regulars that use the intersection often know the timing of the light. The irregulars that don't normally go thru the light are often informed they can go via a horn honk.
The traffic light closest to me used to be like this. Then they changed the phasing to the normal phasing (both E/W traffic had the green at the same time). However, they never posted a sign alerting people to that. The first few weeks involved a lot of slamming on the brakes.
NJ has gotten a little better in adding a left turn arrow in these split phase instances in new or reconstructed intersections, but not always.
Quote from: agentsteel53 on February 05, 2013, 07:38:04 PM
one day, in 1973, I was turning left and there were lane stripes. or there weren't lane stripes. I forget. I also forget what state I was in.
HAHAHAHA.
Quote from: agentsteel53 on February 05, 2013, 07:38:04 PM
one day, in 1973, I was turning left and there were lane stripes. or there weren't lane stripes. I forget. I also forget what state I was in. whatever, facts are for losers.
Sounds like you either were or were not in Alanland.
Quote from: hbelkins on February 06, 2013, 09:46:04 AM
Quote from: agentsteel53 on February 05, 2013, 07:38:04 PM
one day, in 1973, I was turning left and there were lane stripes. or there weren't lane stripes. I forget. I also forget what state I was in. whatever, facts are for losers.
Sounds like you either were or were not in Alanland.
Incorrect. He was in and not in Alanland.
Quote from: Steve on February 05, 2013, 07:14:58 PM
Quote from: kphoger on February 05, 2013, 04:52:45 PM
Quote from: roadman65 on February 05, 2013, 04:14:43 PM
one particular instance back in 85 where I was heading south on US 202
Southwest? US-202 runs east—west through that intersection, right?
Quote from: roadman65 on February 05, 2013, 04:14:43 PM
without having to install a left turn signal.
[...]
there is no reason why either a protected left or full signal could have been [could not have been?] installed
But they do have left-turn signals for CR-567 (that's First Ave, right?); otherwise drivers wouldn't know it's OK to turn left while opposing traffic has a red light. Google Street View shows five lamps on the leftmost signal for northbound and for southbound traffic, indicating left-turn signals on both approaches. It actually sounds to me as though you would prefer having no left-turn signal at all–which would allow "all NB and SB vehicles on CR 567 [to go] at the same time," as you said.
Roadman65, please fact check before posting information in the future. You have been proven incorrect on many occasions, often without much work to do so. Thank you.
What do you mean?
I was stating something I experienced many years ago. I was not stating that the intersection was at present. That is why I stated it was 27 years ago, as I do know that things change over time, as it was proven to me here. Then I stated that, there probably might be other scenarios out there like it and that if there was, I was simply suggesting a solution.
I was not pointing fact out, but simply offering a solution to a personal experience that I encountered. kphoger misunderstood something I said, he thought that I thought that the left turn signals (or arrows) should be removed as he did not understand that I was talking about what happened in 88 when those arrows did not exist then.
I then went to point out that I checked out street view, and saw the change, but implied from the fact that many two phase lights do use arrows and with the way the google car moved through the intersection could be that intersection is that way.
Nothing I said was factional, but just a personal experience and a suggested solution!
Quote from: roadman65 on February 09, 2013, 06:46:16 PM
Nothing I said was factional
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fpbfcomics.com%2Farchive_b%2FPBF020-Skub.gif&hash=ef5e9b474ea62d24e97b08067ccbc5de52ea2ccc)
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimgs.xkcd.com%2Fcomics%2Fduty_calls.png&hash=83f2d5613eca056726a4d403c246774dfc2f7bce)
3 days is a long time to be awake.
Quote from: kphoger on February 05, 2013, 07:34:10 PM
Admittedly, it would be hard to fact check a situation that one remembers from 1985.
But I'm still struggling to understand the situation he's describing, even imagining a hypothetcial intersection instead of that specific one. If there were no turn arrows, then how would northbound left-turning traffic know they had a protected left turn while southbound traffic was facing a red—and vice versa for the second phase? It just doesn't make sense to me.
http://maps.google.com/maps?q=Hazlet,+NJ&hl=en&ll=40.436732,-74.141225&spn=0.004156,0.010568&sll=40.67766,-74.400455&sspn=0.003881,0.010568&oq=hazle&t=h&hnear=Hazlet,+Monmouth,+New+Jersey&z=17&layer=c&cbll=40.436973,-74.1411&panoid=iis7Mo3UMbwWMij9jCUWFA&cbp=12,42.24,,0,0
Here is a signal on Laurel Avenue near Keansburg, NJ that has what I am talking about. Notice the cars turning left with other cars stopped on the opposing side, yet no arrow with the green.
http://maps.google.com/maps?q=Hazlet,+NJ&hl=en&ll=40.436969,-74.141096&spn=0.004156,0.010568&sll=40.67766,-74.400455&sspn=0.003881,0.010568&oq=hazle&t=h&hnear=Hazlet,+Monmouth,+New+Jersey&z=17&layer=c&cbll=40.437176,-74.141002&panoid=UhDCjxDzfv9vOfx1-NINGg&cbp=12,357.24,,0,0
Now here is the google car making that same protected left. Jeff and Nicole said it best to back me up as it is quite common in New Jersey for this particular practice.
Quote from: roadman65 on February 09, 2013, 07:24:00 PM
Quote from: kphoger on February 05, 2013, 07:34:10 PM
Admittedly, it would be hard to fact check a situation that one remembers from 1985.
But I'm still struggling to understand the situation he's describing, even imagining a hypothetcial intersection instead of that specific one. If there were no turn arrows, then how would northbound left-turning traffic know they had a protected left turn while southbound traffic was facing a red–and vice versa for the second phase? It just doesn't make sense to me.
http://maps.google.com/maps?q=Hazlet,+NJ&hl=en&ll=40.436732,-74.141225&spn=0.004156,0.010568&sll=40.67766,-74.400455&sspn=0.003881,0.010568&oq=hazle&t=h&hnear=Hazlet,+Monmouth,+New+Jersey&z=17&layer=c&cbll=40.436973,-74.1411&panoid=iis7Mo3UMbwWMij9jCUWFA&cbp=12,42.24,,0,0
Here is a signal on Laurel Avenue near Keansburg, NJ that has what I am talking about. Notice the cars turning left with other cars stopped on the opposing side, yet no arrow with the green.
http://maps.google.com/maps?q=Hazlet,+NJ&hl=en&ll=40.436969,-74.141096&spn=0.004156,0.010568&sll=40.67766,-74.400455&sspn=0.003881,0.010568&oq=hazle&t=h&hnear=Hazlet,+Monmouth,+New+Jersey&z=17&layer=c&cbll=40.437176,-74.141002&panoid=UhDCjxDzfv9vOfx1-NINGg&cbp=12,357.24,,0,0
Now here is the google car making that same protected left. Jeff and Nicole said it best to back me up as it is quite common in New Jersey for this particular practice.
Wow! Now I understand. What a dumb idea that is!
Quote from: kphoger on February 12, 2013, 05:44:43 PM
Quote from: roadman65 on February 09, 2013, 07:24:00 PM
Quote from: kphoger on February 05, 2013, 07:34:10 PM
Admittedly, it would be hard to fact check a situation that one remembers from 1985.
But I'm still struggling to understand the situation he's describing, even imagining a hypothetcial intersection instead of that specific one. If there were no turn arrows, then how would northbound left-turning traffic know they had a protected left turn while southbound traffic was facing a red–and vice versa for the second phase? It just doesn't make sense to me.
http://maps.google.com/maps?q=Hazlet,+NJ&hl=en&ll=40.436732,-74.141225&spn=0.004156,0.010568&sll=40.67766,-74.400455&sspn=0.003881,0.010568&oq=hazle&t=h&hnear=Hazlet,+Monmouth,+New+Jersey&z=17&layer=c&cbll=40.436973,-74.1411&panoid=iis7Mo3UMbwWMij9jCUWFA&cbp=12,42.24,,0,0
Here is a signal on Laurel Avenue near Keansburg, NJ that has what I am talking about. Notice the cars turning left with other cars stopped on the opposing side, yet no arrow with the green.
http://maps.google.com/maps?q=Hazlet,+NJ&hl=en&ll=40.436969,-74.141096&spn=0.004156,0.010568&sll=40.67766,-74.400455&sspn=0.003881,0.010568&oq=hazle&t=h&hnear=Hazlet,+Monmouth,+New+Jersey&z=17&layer=c&cbll=40.437176,-74.141002&panoid=UhDCjxDzfv9vOfx1-NINGg&cbp=12,357.24,,0,0
Now here is the google car making that same protected left. Jeff and Nicole said it best to back me up as it is quite common in New Jersey for this particular practice.
Wow! Now I understand. What a dumb idea that is!
Agreed. It is bizarre. In Illinois, there would be a four lamp signal head with a green arrow at the bottom for this type of intersection.
Quote from: 1995hoo on January 31, 2013, 01:48:17 PM
Quote from: roadman65 on January 26, 2013, 09:54:25 PM
If I am not mistaken, both California and Southern Nevada also use ceramic buttons instead of the standard paint lane striping. I have not seen these used anywhere else, although FDOT was experimenting with them on both FL 50 and I-4 in certain parts of Orlando.
Not in one state only, but in one region of the country.
Are you referring to Botts dots? I recall seeing those on Kauai in the Lihue area, though it's been almost 10 years since I visited there so I have no idea whether they're still in use.
When I lived on Kauai in the 1980s, both the main highways (50 and 56) out of Lihue had the yellow Botts dots. I don't know about the other islands.
Here in Colorado, the small Black-on-White reference marker signs posted by bridges, culverts and overhead sign gantries on numbered highways usually begin with a letter and number combination...This letter/number combo corresponds with where on the official Colorado State Highway Map you are.
So if a sign starts out by saying A-01-xxxxxxx Then you are in the extreme Northwest corner of the state (A-1).
I have also seen in Colorado that in many intersections with a protected left arrow and all lane lights are cycling from green/green arrow to yellow to red, many times the lane light with the protected turn arrow will change from yellow to red up to 1 second sooner that the other lights changing from yellow to red. I know it sounds confusing, but I will try to get a video posted with a few examples. I guess they do this to help prevent last-second or late left turning traffic in the intersection when the cross street gets their green.
Quote from: thenetwork on February 13, 2013, 05:48:40 PM
I have also seen in Colorado that in many intersections with a protected left arrow and all lane lights are cycling from green/green arrow to yellow to red, many times the lane light with the protected turn arrow will change from yellow to red up to 1 second sooner that the other lights changing from yellow to red. I know it sounds confusing, but I will try to get a video posted with a few examples. I guess they do this to help prevent last-second or late left turning traffic in the intersection when the cross street gets their green.
This happens in Reno, NV as well. The reason likely has to do with the duration of the yellow interval following the Institute of Transportation Engineers' recommended formula. One factor in the ITE formula is the 85th percentile speed of the movement divided by the safe stopping distance--with a turning movement being made at slower speeds, this factor ends up being smaller and results in an overall shorter yellow interval.
From what I have seen as far as drawbridges go, New Jersey seems to implement two sets of gates to stop traffic during an opening. The first is the lower down gate at the traffic signal that stops the traffic from crossing the span during operation. Then there is another set of gates that are made of steel that are on opposite sides that close together. At one time the inner gates had to be closed manually, which added to the wait time as the operator would have to leave his station and have to open and close four gates.
I have not seen this practice anywhere else, as other states have the one electric railroad type of gate that lowers with no extra manual or even automatic gates.
Quote from: thenetwork on February 13, 2013, 05:48:40 PM
Here in Colorado, the small Black-on-White reference marker signs posted by bridges, culverts and overhead sign gantries on numbered highways usually begin with a letter and number combination...This letter/number combo corresponds with where on the official Colorado State Highway Map you are.
So if a sign starts out by saying A-01-xxxxxxx Then you are in the extreme Northwest corner of the state (A-1).
While the exact details of what's on the marker are probably unique to each state, Colorado is far from the only state to use the general concept of a reference marker. Oklahoma uses one that has the alphabetical county number on top (Adair County is 1, Woodward County is 77), control section number in the middle (a serial number assigned to defined lengths of road in a given county, such as SH-76 between the county line and SH-39 in McClain County), and the last line the mileage along that control section.
Colorado may be the only state that uses the official state map grid reference for such a purpose though. It makes a lot of sense.
Quote from: Scott5114 on March 20, 2013, 06:04:21 PM
Quote from: thenetwork on February 13, 2013, 05:48:40 PM
Here in Colorado, the small Black-on-White reference marker signs posted by bridges, culverts and overhead sign gantries on numbered highways usually begin with a letter and number combination...This letter/number combo corresponds with where on the official Colorado State Highway Map you are.
So if a sign starts out by saying A-01-xxxxxxx Then you are in the extreme Northwest corner of the state (A-1).
While the exact details of what's on the marker are probably unique to each state, Colorado is far from the only state to use the general concept of a reference marker. Oklahoma uses one that has the alphabetical county number on top (Adair County is 1, Woodward County is 77), control section number in the middle (a serial number assigned to defined lengths of road in a given county, such as SH-76 between the county line and SH-39 in McClain County), and the last line the mileage along that control section.
Colorado may be the only state that uses the official state map grid reference for such a purpose though. It makes a lot of sense.
Sounds like Arkansas has similar mileage signage to Colorado. Those go beneath Type 3 object markers (vertical yellow-and-black striped) at the foot of bridges or sometimes culverts.
The reference marker is a black-on-white square consisting of the highway number, the section, and the mileage from the zero point of the section. The direction toward which the mileage is increasing gets a + sign.
Here is an example from bridgehunter.com taken by one of our own (at left of photo, never mind the WPA stamp):
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fbridgehunter.com%2Fphotos%2F12%2F51%2F125136-L.jpg&hash=adc15e4c3cd712d7dfd2e78e357f4fe918e0d3c5)
Here is another, less-shotgun-damaged example:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fbridgehunter.com%2Fphotos%2F13%2F29%2F132927-L.jpg&hash=150d8bf803b6b57484baf2466029114732deb801)
I found one that only New Jersey uses. That is the mixture of 12 and 8 inch signal heads at one particular signalized intersections. The Garden State at many intersections of State and County/ Municipal roads have them with 12 inch standard US heads on the State highway while the side local road uses 8 inch. I have seen some places in Philadelphia and Bucks County, PA use both at one installation, but usually the 8 inch lenses are used for the side mounted signals while the overheads use the 12 inch at some intersections, but not exclusively for one direction each.
Then Ontario does not mount two signal heads on one mast arm. Instead, another mast arm is brought in opposite of the primary one making a standard four way intersection have total of eight arms. Unlike New Jersey where even though the signals are spaced far apart like as in Ontario, New Jersey would use a back to back system of two heads on one arm per side still limiting the mast arms to the same amounts, except on divided highways where you have extra arms extending from the median in some places as well as the usual corner mounts.
Quote from: hbelkins on January 04, 2013, 10:57:42 PM
Does NYC also prohibit right turn on red?
Technically, no. It's the
state that prohibits it, in every city with a population over one million.
What NYC has done is
declined to legalize RTOR, which it is empowered to do under the same statute.
Quote from: roadman65 on March 21, 2013, 09:29:27 AM
I found one that only New Jersey uses. That is the mixture of 12 and 8 inch signal heads at one particular signalized intersections. The Garden State at many intersections of State and County/ Municipal roads have them with 12 inch standard US heads on the State highway while the side local road uses 8 inch.
Even better (or uglier)...an 8" signal setup and a 12" signal setup ON THE SAME MAST!
(National Park, NJ): http://goo.gl/maps/9IJBF
I've seen mixtures of 8" and 12" signal heads in Ohio before. One particularly common example is functionally the common doghouse, but the two arrow indications are on 12" heads next to the three 8" circular indications, so the five signal heads are in two columns of nearly-equal height.
Ohio's reference markers are found at bridges and culverts. Sometimes they're wide like blade signs (bent around a bridge support pier) and sometimes they're squares, but neither type has a border. Black text on white. The information on them looks a bit like this:
ABC 67 1234
ABC is the three-letter ODOT-standard abbreviation for the county. 67 is the route number. 1234 is the in-county mileage in centimiles. Or maybe millimiles; I can't remember for sure. Interstates might use whole-state mileage, but again I'm not certain.
These are different from the little blue reference markers attached to ground-mounted BGS, and also different from the little green and white reference markers attached to light poles (in Columbus, anyway).
Quote from: vtk on March 21, 2013, 12:22:32 PM
I've seen mixtures of 8" and 12" signal heads in Ohio before. One particularly common example is functionally the common doghouse, but the two arrow indications are on 12" heads next to the three 8" circular indications, so the five signal heads are in two columns of nearly-equal height.
Ohio's reference markers are found at bridges and culverts. Sometimes they're wide like blade signs (bent around a bridge support pier) and sometimes they're squares, but neither type has a border. Black text on white. The information on them looks a bit like this:
ABC 67 1234
ABC is the three-letter ODOT-standard abbreviation for the county. 67 is the route number. 1234 is the in-county mileage in centimiles. Or maybe millimiles; I can't remember for sure. Interstates might use whole-state mileage, but again I'm not certain.
These are different from the little blue reference markers attached to ground-mounted BGS, and also different from the little green and white reference markers attached to light poles (in Columbus, anyway).
Yeah, I forgot that MD uses them as well as NYC (as pointed out by another user in a GSV) with the perfect doghouse as you say.
Only in Washington do you have state routes taking the place of county roads...
what
Quote from: 707 on March 27, 2013, 12:40:30 AM
Only in Washington do you have state routes taking the place of county roads...
Quote from: NE2 on March 27, 2013, 01:22:47 AM
what
ONLY IN WASHINGTON DO YOU HAVE STATE ROUTES TAKING THE PLACE OF COUNTY ROADS...Turn up your hearing aid next time!!!
what the Hell is wrong with you?
that was the most worthless post I have seen in my four years on this forum. and that includes the "Voyager Cosmic Bar" days.
to address the issue, lots of states have roads maintained by the state which are, in other states, county roads.
Virginia has lots of state secondary roads. so does Missouri. Florida went from having lots, to turning them all over to the counties in 1977. I don't know offhand of a state that went the other way, buying up all the county roads and putting them under state maintenance.
Quote from: empirestate on March 21, 2013, 10:31:10 AM
Quote from: hbelkins on January 04, 2013, 10:57:42 PM
Does NYC also prohibit right turn on red?
Technically, no. It's the state that prohibits it, in every city with a population over one million.
What NYC has done is declined to legalize RTOR, which it is empowered to do under the same statute.
Technically, NYC banned RTOR long before the state banned it in cities over 1M population, in 1980. Mayor LaGuardia signed the ordinance in the 1930's.
Quote from: 707 on March 27, 2013, 12:40:30 AM
Only in Washington do you have state routes taking the place of county roads...
What about Kentucky and Virginia?
Quote from: Brandon on March 27, 2013, 10:01:55 AM
Quote from: 707 on March 27, 2013, 12:40:30 AM
Only in Washington do you have state routes taking the place of county roads...
What about Kentucky and Virginia?
Or Delaware or North Carolina?
Quote from: jeffandnicole on March 27, 2013, 09:37:05 AM
Quote from: 707 on March 27, 2013, 12:40:30 AM
Only in Washington do you have state routes taking the place of county roads...
Quote from: NE2 on March 27, 2013, 01:22:47 AM
what
ONLY IN WASHINGTON DO YOU HAVE STATE ROUTES TAKING THE PLACE OF COUNTY ROADS...
Turn up your hearing aid next time!!!
Geez.... OK, let me rephrase NE2's question:
(1) What do you mean by "taking the place of", and
(2) Are you really sure that none of the other 49 states do what you describe?
Quote from: kphoger on March 27, 2013, 02:02:46 PM
(2) Are you really sure that none of the other 49 states do what you describe?
As I read the topic question, that's not necessarily a deal breaker. We're only looking for things that make us
think "only in this state!", not situations where it's definitely 100% true. You know, like if you see somebody holding a parking space with a lawn chair and think "only in Pittsburgh!" despite the fact that it's a common practice in various cities. Or if it snows in late March after a period of 60-degree, sunny weather, you think "only in Rochester!", despite this being a fairly typical weather pattern for early spring in many temperate areas.
I can't even think of what county roads Washington has made a state highway lately... 397, I guess, but that's it in the last 10 years and was built with state funds anyway so whatever.
Washington has one of the more trimmed systems in the country...
I must have not been thinking straight when I posted. I realize that Wisconsin, Missouri, Kentucky, Virginia and many other states do the same thing as Washington. What I should have said is "Only in Washington do you get major highways crossing lakes and waterways on the world's largest floating bridges."
Quote from: jeffandnicole on March 27, 2013, 09:37:05 AM
Quote from: 707 on March 27, 2013, 12:40:30 AM
Only in Washington do you have state routes taking the place of county roads...
Quote from: NE2 on March 27, 2013, 01:22:47 AM
what
ONLY IN WASHINGTON DO YOU HAVE STATE ROUTES TAKING THE PLACE OF COUNTY ROADS...
Turn up your hearing aid next time!!!
But seriously, was this post necessary? I realize I goofed up and triggered a non-specific response, but still, there's no reason to scream as if a meteor is about to hit the earth.
Quote from: 707 on March 27, 2013, 06:31:51 PM
I must have not been thinking straight when I posted. I realize that Wisconsin, Missouri, Kentucky, Virginia and many other states do the same thing as Washington. What I should have said is "Only in Washington do you get major highways crossing lakes and waterways on the world's largest floating bridges."
Remove Wisconsin from that as they have extensive use of county highways. A bit of confusion is that WI and MO uses lettered highways in addition to numbered highways, but WI lettered routes are county highways and MO lettered routes are secondary state highways.
Quote from: Big John on March 27, 2013, 06:41:10 PM
Quote from: 707 on March 27, 2013, 06:31:51 PM
I must have not been thinking straight when I posted. I realize that Wisconsin, Missouri, Kentucky, Virginia and many other states do the same thing as Washington. What I should have said is "Only in Washington do you get major highways crossing lakes and waterways on the world's largest floating bridges."
Remove Wisconsin from that as they have extensive use of county highways. A bit of confusion is that WI and MO uses lettered highways in addition to numbered highways, but WI lettered routes are county highways and MO lettered routes are secondary state highways.
My mistake. Sorry about that.
Wait, getting back to the main point can you please provide examples of where Washington uses state routes in lieu of county roads?
Quote from: corco on March 27, 2013, 07:26:29 PM
Wait, getting back to the main point can you please provide examples of where Washington uses state routes in lieu of county roads?
What he said. I'm baffled by the claim that Washington would be anywhere near the same category as Kentucky or Virginia, which have routes numbered into the thousands.
Quote from: 707 on March 27, 2013, 06:33:15 PM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on March 27, 2013, 09:37:05 AM
Quote from: 707 on March 27, 2013, 12:40:30 AM
Only in Washington do you have state routes taking the place of county roads...
Quote from: NE2 on March 27, 2013, 01:22:47 AM
what
ONLY IN WASHINGTON DO YOU HAVE STATE ROUTES TAKING THE PLACE OF COUNTY ROADS...
Turn up your hearing aid next time!!!
But seriously, was this post necessary? I realize I goofed up and triggered a non-specific response, but still, there's no reason to scream as if a meteor is about to hit the earth.
I was actually joking with NE2, who responded with "What", as if he didn't hear the post.
Quote from: jeffandnicole on March 28, 2013, 08:19:04 AM
I was actually joking with NE2, who responded with "What", as if he didn't hear the post.
Yeah, no kidding. I think we got that. But the point still stands that using 36-point bold text is Not Cool (http://dribbble.s3.amazonaws.com/users/6105/screenshots/807612/screen_shot_2012-11-08_at_3.12.19_pm.png).
Quote from: Kacie Jane on March 27, 2013, 10:18:44 PM
Quote from: corco on March 27, 2013, 07:26:29 PM
Wait, getting back to the main point can you please provide examples of where Washington uses state routes in lieu of county roads?
What he said. I'm baffled by the claim that Washington would be anywhere near the same category as Kentucky or Virginia, which have routes numbered into the thousands.
707? Are you there give your answer?
Quote from: kphoger on March 28, 2013, 10:20:24 AM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on March 28, 2013, 08:19:04 AM
I was actually joking with NE2, who responded with "What", as if he didn't hear the post.
Yeah, no kidding. I think we got that. But the point still stands that using 36-point bold text is Not Cool (http://dribbble.s3.amazonaws.com/users/6105/screenshots/807612/screen_shot_2012-11-08_at_3.12.19_pm.png).
Quote from: Kacie Jane on March 27, 2013, 10:18:44 PM
Quote from: corco on March 27, 2013, 07:26:29 PM
Wait, getting back to the main point can you please provide examples of where Washington uses state routes in lieu of county roads?
What he said. I'm baffled by the claim that Washington would be anywhere near the same category as Kentucky or Virginia, which have routes numbered into the thousands.
707? Are you there give your answer?
How about 35 point italic?
Kentucky most definitely has county routes that are not state-maintained. They generally are signed by name, not by number. Only once can I ever recall a Kentucky county route being signed with a numbered route marker. That was in Barren County and I was a very young lad when I saw it.
Quote from: hbelkins on March 28, 2013, 11:10:23 PM
Kentucky most definitely has county routes that are not state-maintained. They generally are signed by name, not by number. Only once can I ever recall a Kentucky county route being signed with a numbered route marker. That was in Barren County and I was a very young lad when I saw it.
Similar in Washington. No shortage of county-maintained roads. In fact, if I had to guess, I'd say the (perhaps vast) majority of roads in the state are county-maintained. But no county-numbered highways that I know of. I've heard rumors that they exist, but I've never seen them signed in the field.
Quote from: Kacie Jane on March 28, 2013, 11:28:52 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on March 28, 2013, 11:10:23 PM
Kentucky most definitely has county routes that are not state-maintained. They generally are signed by name, not by number. Only once can I ever recall a Kentucky county route being signed with a numbered route marker. That was in Barren County and I was a very young lad when I saw it.
Similar in Washington. No shortage of county-maintained roads. In fact, if I had to guess, I'd say the (perhaps vast) majority of roads in the state are county-maintained. But no county-numbered highways that I know of. I've heard rumors that they exist, but I've never seen them signed in the field.
I'm pretty sure every county road in Georgia has a number (in larger urban counties, numbering well into the thousands). Signage practices vary by county (in the counties where they are signed, they're usually on street blades), but I've never seen a traditional county route shield anywhere in the state. Traditional practice used to be with vertical green signs (not unlike mile markers) mounted on the backs of stop signs, but I don't think that's been done for at least 15 years.
Though hey, that actually fits the topic! Only in Georgia do you (occasionally) see numbered green signs mounted on the back of a stop sign.
I think when that someone mentioned about in other states county roads would be the same as Washington State's state roads, he meant to say that some states have more state numbered designations than others.
Look at Georgia, has many state routes per square mile than, lets say, New Jersey. In the Garden State many of the 500 series county routes would be all state numbered, so not only if the Peach State had control of New Jersey roads, but others as well; you would have CR 539 a state highway as well as CR 513, CR 510 etc.
Also while bringing up Georgia, only in Georgia do you have US routes all signed with a separate state route designation. Other states do have secret state routes assigned like Alabama and Florida, but they are not signed in the field. I know Tennessee has secret routes to, but I cannot remember if they were signed or not. If they are then Georgia is not alone, but still almost.
Florida has a unique thing as well. It has concrete signal poles as well as power poles. Puerto Rico has the same, but it is not a State yet.
The Carolinas, seem to the only two states that use wooden telephone poles as a norm for their signal poles, in that others use it as temporary set up and use metal poles for span wire assemblies.
Quote from: bugo on December 13, 2012, 09:19:41 PM
How much time do you have, buddy?
I recently acquired six hours and nine minutes from the (POTGDC) Pfafpff Oblast Time Distribution Center.
Quote from: Big John on March 27, 2013, 06:41:10 PM
Quote from: 707 on March 27, 2013, 06:31:51 PM
I must have not been thinking straight when I posted. I realize that Wisconsin, Missouri, Kentucky, Virginia and many other states do the same thing as Washington. What I should have said is "Only in Washington do you get major highways crossing lakes and waterways on the world's largest floating bridges."
Remove Wisconsin from that as they have extensive use of county highways. A bit of confusion is that WI and MO uses lettered highways in addition to numbered highways, but WI lettered routes are county highways and MO lettered routes are secondary state highways.
In fact, a lot of county highways in Wisconsin that never were state highways are very important regional routes and would be state highways in many other states. And it is amazing that much of the Wisconsin's county highway network is better engineered and maintained than state highways in many other states.
Mike
QuoteSimilar in Washington. No shortage of county-maintained roads. In fact, if I had to guess, I'd say the (perhaps vast) majority of roads in the state are county-maintained. But no county-numbered highways that I know of. I've heard rumors that they exist, but I've never seen them signed in the field.
Kitsap County has a unique shield that's sporadically posted that's the number superimposed over a county outline. I know there's a few posted on roads leading off SR 307. It looks like it was a one time round of sign posting that wasn't actively maintained and I haven't been up there since 2008, so they could all be gone by now (I only remember seeing two). I've never seen a pentagon in Washington though.
I'm right here and there is no need to use big letters. The reason why I compared Washington to Kentucky and Virginia was due to the many state roads around the Seattle Area. WA 513, WA 519 and WA 523 would all be better suited by numbered county roads. On Long Island, roads such as those three are used as numbered county roads. That's why I made the connection.
Quote from: 707 on March 31, 2013, 09:56:16 PM
I'm right here and there is no need to use big letters. The reason why I compared Washington to Kentucky and Virginia was due to the many state roads around the Seattle Area. WA 513, WA 519 and WA 523 would all be better suited by numbered county roads. On Long Island, roads such as those three are used as numbered county roads. That's why I made the connection.
WA 513 is in the system because it keeps the Montlake Bridge under state maintenance, which will be joined by a second bridge soon.
WA 519 connects I-90 to Colman Dock, which handles ferry traffic from Bremerton and Bainbridge Island (SR 304 and 305, respectively) and (until 2006ish) handled Vashon Island passenger traffic (via SR 339).
Quote from: 707 on March 31, 2013, 09:56:16 PM
I'm right here and there is no need to use big letters. The reason why I compared Washington to Kentucky and Virginia was due to the many state roads around the Seattle Area. WA 513, WA 519 and WA 523 would all be better suited by numbered county roads. On Long Island, roads such as those three are used as numbered county roads. That's why I made the connection.
And WA-523 is a major arterial, that forms the border between two cities.
Do you think there should be any state highways that happen to be within urban areas, or that they should only be state highways if they're freeways?
Quote from: kkt on April 01, 2013, 12:53:31 AM
Quote from: 707 on March 31, 2013, 09:56:16 PM
I'm right here and there is no need to use big letters. The reason why I compared Washington to Kentucky and Virginia was due to the many state roads around the Seattle Area. WA 513, WA 519 and WA 523 would all be better suited by numbered county roads. On Long Island, roads such as those three are used as numbered county roads. That's why I made the connection.
And WA-523 is a major arterial, that forms the border between two cities.
Do you think there should be any state highways that happen to be within urban areas, or that they should only be state highways if they're freeways?
Too bad the West Seattle Freeway/route to Fauntleroy terminal never became WA-517 (http://www.angelfire.com/wa2/hwysofwastate/sr517.html) in 1992.
Quote from: vtk on March 21, 2013, 12:22:32 PM
I've seen mixtures of 8" and 12" signal heads in Ohio before. One particularly common example is functionally the common doghouse, but the two arrow indications are on 12" heads next to the three 8" circular indications, so the five signal heads are in two columns of nearly-equal height.
Ohio's reference markers are found at bridges and culverts. Sometimes they're wide like blade signs (bent around a bridge support pier) and sometimes they're squares, but neither type has a border. Black text on white. The information on them looks a bit like this:
ABC 67 1234
ABC is the three-letter ODOT-standard abbreviation for the county. 67 is the route number. 1234 is the in-county mileage in centimiles. Or maybe millimiles; I can't remember for sure. Interstates might use whole-state mileage, but again I'm not certain.
These are different from the little blue reference markers attached to ground-mounted BGS, and also different from the little green and white reference markers attached to light poles (in Columbus, anyway).
I believe on those little reference markers, even the interstates are done by the county line as well. But I can't remember fully.
Quote from: exit322 on April 04, 2013, 01:08:20 PM
I believe on those little reference markers, even the interstates are done by the county line as well. But I can't remember fully.
The white postmiles do use the county mileage (since they include the county abbrev) on Interstates. Green (and blue) mile markers use the mileage from the state line, even on non-Interstates now. For example, US 35 got some blue 2/10 mile markers that reflect the distance from the Indiana line, which is another county over. Other state and US routes have been getting such markers as well (e.g., OH 8, 176, 315 among many). The new exit numbers and the mile markers on the OH 176 Jennings Freeway reflect the entire route mileage, including the non-freeway part, so the freeway ends at exit 16 iIrc, but the postmiles at bridges reflect the mileage from the county line.
The little blue signs attached to larger signs' posts/gantries also reflect the mileage overall, not by county, to the tenth of a mile generally--although I know that I have seen exceptions with hundredths. Not every area uses them; Columbus area has them and they can extend a ways out (there used to be ones as far north as the Richland County line sign northbound) but there aren't any in Akron. It may be a district-by-district thing.
Quote from: PurdueBill on April 15, 2013, 01:25:08 AM
Quote from: exit322 on April 04, 2013, 01:08:20 PM
I believe on those little reference markers, even the interstates are done by the county line as well. But I can't remember fully.
The white postmiles do use the county mileage (since they include the county abbrev) on Interstates. Green (and blue) mile markers use the mileage from the state line, even on non-Interstates now. For example, US 35 got some blue 2/10 mile markers that reflect the distance from the Indiana line, which is another county over. Other state and US routes have been getting such markers as well (e.g., OH 8, 176, 315 among many). The new exit numbers and the mile markers on the OH 176 Jennings Freeway reflect the entire route mileage, including the non-freeway part, so the freeway ends at exit 16 iIrc, but the postmiles at bridges reflect the mileage from the county line.
The little blue signs attached to larger signs' posts/gantries also reflect the mileage overall, not by county, to the tenth of a mile generally--although I know that I have seen exceptions with hundredths. Not every area uses them; Columbus area has them and they can extend a ways out (there used to be ones as far north as the Richland County line sign northbound) but there aren't any in Akron. It may be a district-by-district thing.
The Cincinnati and Dayton areas also use the little blue milemarkers, usually in hundredths.
Quote from: roadman65 on March 29, 2013, 09:23:23 AM
I think when that someone mentioned about in other states county roads would be the same as Washington State's state roads, he meant to say that some states have more state numbered designations than others.
But Washington is not one of those states. I'd say the state highway system here is fairly sparse.
Quote from: 707 on March 31, 2013, 09:56:16 PM
I'm right here and there is no need to use big letters. The reason why I compared Washington to Kentucky and Virginia was due to the many state roads around the Seattle Area. WA 513, WA 519 and WA 523 would all be better suited by numbered county roads. On Long Island, roads such as those three are used as numbered county roads. That's why I made the connection.
It's true that Nassau and Suffolk Counties have no shortage of county routes crossing the island -- though Nassau's are no longer posted, correct? But there is also no shortage of state routes on Long Island either. I still fail to see the analogy.
Actually, I think I found one that is unique to only one state. Texas, seems to be the only state that uses two different shields for their own state designations on road signs.
Both State and Farm-to-Market highways have one way of signing stand alone shields and another method on on freeway guide signs. The regular state designations use the state name "TEXAS" underneath the number on standard shields, but on large freeway signs the name appears on top even though both in squares. Then the other Farm-to-Market roads use the Texas outline on stand alone assemblies, but use a square with "F.M" on freeway guide sign panels.
Quote from: roadman65 on April 23, 2013, 02:12:45 PM
Actually, I think I found one that is unique to only one state. Texas, seems to be the only state that uses two different shields for their own state designations on road signs.
Montana:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.interstate-guide.com%2Fimages315%2Fi-315_mt_wt_05.jpg&hash=236efd7b675d2e8508c4b8ab8b87af1de0fe89b0)
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.interstate-guide.com%2Fimages315%2Fi-315_mt_wt_01.jpg&hash=0ce6be54b2ccae460b40ab7a880d8f168824de76)
from http://www.interstate-guide.com/i-315_mt.html
Connecticut does the same as well. New York's shields all seem to look different on the BGS.
Michigan's diamonds have an M and are always square when independent-mount; on guide signs, they lack the M and 3-digit routes get wider diamonds.
And not a state, but Ontario's BGS and independent mount signs are completely different.
Never really noticed a difference in NY's myself, though the lack of border seems to affect how they look a LOT.
Quote from: vtk on April 23, 2013, 06:29:07 PM
Michigan's diamonds have an M and are always square when independent-mount; on guide signs, they lack the M and 3-digit routes get wider diamonds.
Yep, and to let Steve know, the wider 3dms on the guide signs are not errors. They are SOP in the state.
Quote from: Brandon on April 24, 2013, 03:55:19 PM
Quote from: vtk on April 23, 2013, 06:29:07 PM
Michigan's diamonds have an M and are always square when independent-mount; on guide signs, they lack the M and 3-digit routes get wider diamonds.
Yep, and to let Steve know, the wider 3dms on the guide signs are not errors. They are SOP in the state.
I'm aware of this, at least now - if I'm the Steve you refer to, is this somewhere in one of my captions? (I have too many pages to find old errors or assumptions.)
Quote from: Steve on April 24, 2013, 07:08:06 PM
Quote from: Brandon on April 24, 2013, 03:55:19 PM
Quote from: vtk on April 23, 2013, 06:29:07 PM
Michigan's diamonds have an M and are always square when independent-mount; on guide signs, they lack the M and 3-digit routes get wider diamonds.
Yep, and to let Steve know, the wider 3dms on the guide signs are not errors. They are SOP in the state.
I'm aware of this, at least now - if I'm the Steve you refer to, is this somewhere in one of my captions? (I have too many pages to find old errors or assumptions.)
It's all over your Michigan pages. :bigass:
I get a bit of a kick out of them as I know you know now.
Quote from: Brandon on April 24, 2013, 07:12:36 PM
Quote from: Steve on April 24, 2013, 07:08:06 PM
Quote from: Brandon on April 24, 2013, 03:55:19 PM
Quote from: vtk on April 23, 2013, 06:29:07 PM
Michigan's diamonds have an M and are always square when independent-mount; on guide signs, they lack the M and 3-digit routes get wider diamonds.
Yep, and to let Steve know, the wider 3dms on the guide signs are not errors. They are SOP in the state.
I'm aware of this, at least now - if I'm the Steve you refer to, is this somewhere in one of my captions? (I have too many pages to find old errors or assumptions.)
It's all over your Michigan pages. :bigass:
I get a bit of a kick out of them as I know you know now.
Greeeeeat. "All over" usually means about 4 places, from past feedback. I'm sitting tight unless anyone wants to help me out, as I'm already running late on another update and have barely started page writing.
Quote from: Steve on April 24, 2013, 11:40:23 PM
Quote from: Brandon on April 24, 2013, 07:12:36 PM
Quote from: Steve on April 24, 2013, 07:08:06 PM
Quote from: Brandon on April 24, 2013, 03:55:19 PM
Quote from: vtk on April 23, 2013, 06:29:07 PM
Michigan's diamonds have an M and are always square when independent-mount; on guide signs, they lack the M and 3-digit routes get wider diamonds.
Yep, and to let Steve know, the wider 3dms on the guide signs are not errors. They are SOP in the state.
I'm aware of this, at least now - if I'm the Steve you refer to, is this somewhere in one of my captions? (I have too many pages to find old errors or assumptions.)
It's all over your Michigan pages. :bigass:
I get a bit of a kick out of them as I know you know now.
Greeeeeat. "All over" usually means about 4 places, from past feedback. I'm sitting tight unless anyone wants to help me out, as I'm already running late on another update and have barely started page writing.
I wouldn't worry about it too much. The first time I saw New Jersey's way of posting shields on guide signs (in photographs), I thought they were mistakes. I soon learned. It is amazing what you learn and how different each state still is even with the Federal MUTCD.
Quote from: Steve on April 24, 2013, 11:40:23 PM
Greeeeeat. "All over" usually means about 4 places, from past feedback. I'm sitting tight unless anyone wants to help me out, as I'm already running late on another update and have barely started page writing.
8 places, I stand corrected. Also, it's 4:20. :hyper: :happy:
(Disclaimer: I'm pulling a 3-days-in-2-nighter. No drugs.)
It seems we end up finding that each state is not as unique as we though in many areas. As I say this, its because I found out after driving through rural Michigan on the state highway system, that all intersections intersecting a state road have a high pressure sodium lamp suspended above them on span wire.
I have not seen it standard in other places yet, but if no other state has them on a regular basis, then Michigan has one unique road practice. I must say its a sound idea illuminating all the crossroads or even slightest public side road as a nice night time safety feature.
I concur with "roadman65". Michigan is the only state I have seen that has streetlights suspended on span wire above intersections. This is a very good idea. Very unique.
Quote from: bassoon1986 on December 14, 2012, 02:29:25 PM
Only in Louisiana (maybe not totally): Are 3di's squished into 2di shields. I know other states do this, but we seem to have it across the board. I-220 and US 171 come to mind
Louisiana is just compensating for Texas putting two-digit route numbers in three-digit shields. :pan:
Quote from: 1995hoo on December 14, 2012, 05:32:22 PM
Only in North Carolina do the white signs advising of an impending drop in the speed limit use the grammatically-correct "REDUCE SPEED AHEAD" rather than the form "REDUCED SPEED AHEAD" (which I maintain is grammatically incorrect because it is the speed limit that is reduced, and we've all seen speed-limit decreases that nobody obeys).
My comment above from December 2012 is no longer accurate: Maryland now has at least one set of "REDUCE SPEED AHEAD" signs on I-270 southbound near the weigh station. I think I saw one somewhere in Virginia a week or two ago as well but I cannot remember where. Odds are it was somewhere out I-66 towards Linden because I haven't gone anywhere to the south in the past few months.