Seeing how there's at least three members in the Wichita area, maybe it's time to have a road meet in the southern part of the state, seeing as we've had four in the northeastern part of the state over the years.
Is anyone from down in the Wichita area willing to host. Is there anything the Wichita folks think may be of interest?
EDIT: We've found the interest, and I'm setting the date for July 20.
Quote from: route56 on May 15, 2013, 05:58:05 PM
Is there anything the Wichita folks think may be of interest?
pooing is cool
In other news, I'd be interested, but I have no idea what we'd do.
Possibly. I'd like to make an Ohio meet if there is one after July 7th, but if there's not I'd be down to go to Wichita- that's about the furthest west a roadmeet will ever be, so that's cool
I would be interested; it's only about 2 hours from OKC so I could easily make the trip.
I'd be very interested in attending. It all depends on the date chosen. The last two weeks of July and practically all of August and September are out for me, and I'm going to Chattanooga on July 6. I'm tentative for New Jersey on June 29 but since I will be in the northeast earlier in June, I would probably opt for Kansas should you choose June 29 for a date.
Quote from: okroads on May 15, 2013, 08:19:32 PM
I would be interested; it's only about 2 hours from OKC so I could easily make the trip.
That would be awesome! I've been a fan of your websites for quite a bit longer than I've been active on this forum.
...and we have a Motel 6, but I really don't think you'd want to stay there. For kicks and giggles, you should read the reviews of it (http://www.tripadvisor.com/Hotel_Review-g39143-d244095-Reviews-Motel_6_Wichita-Wichita_Kansas.html) sometime. Review titles that stick out are "Scarred for life!!!", "Urine. Everywhere.", and "Nastiest place ever!".
Quote from: kphoger on May 15, 2013, 09:55:00 PM
...and we have a Motel 6, but I really don't think you'd want to stay there. For kicks and giggles, you should read the reviews of it (http://www.tripadvisor.com/Hotel_Review-g39143-d244095-Reviews-Motel_6_Wichita-Wichita_Kansas.html) sometime. Review titles that stick out are "Scarred for life!!!", "Urine. Everywhere.", and "Nastiest place ever!".
Well, that would be Motel 6. Stayed at one in South Bend once. Never again.
No, as Eric can attest to, there are plenty of decent Motel 6es around the country. The trick is to figure out which ones are decent and which ones are the "Nastiest place ever!". Typically, though, the newer construction ones are pretty decent, whereas the older construction ones are deficient in some way or another.
To illustrate what I mean, the Motel 6 in West Des Moines (I've stayed there once, back in the early 2000s) gets reviews like "Nice surprise! Clean, safe, convenient" , "Enjoyed the Stay!" , "We enjoy staying here" , and "CLEAN, Oh so clean!" . I love TripAdvisor for just this reason: the brand name on the front of a motel doesn't tell you what it's really like.
Back on topic, though, I will be in Branson July 13—16, and in México August 3—11.
Quote from: kphoger on May 16, 2013, 09:41:54 AM
Back on topic, though, I will be in Branson July 13—16, and in México August 3—11.
Very cool, kphoger. I will be in México as well (el Distrito Federal, to be exact) the weekend that you will be in Branson.
Unfortunatley, because of this trip, I will be limited to only one road meet this year, and that being Portsmouth.
I agree about Trip Advisor. I've stayed at the Motel 6 in Cross Lanes, WV (outside Charleston). It's pretty nice.
In general, I take all the reviews into consideration when I decide where to stay, and not just a handful of bad reviews. But if a place consistently gets panned, I stay away.
As to a Wichita-area meet, I would probably be available to attend on July 13 or Aug. 17. July 20 might also be a possibility.
I'd love to see someone take the ball and run with this. A meet doesn't have to feature new construction. Old alignments, old bridges, stub endings, etc. -- all are fair game for a meet tour.
EDIT: Aug. 17 is out.
I'm almost sure I could get my bridge engineer friend involved. He is still coming to terms with the fact that there are "amateur" roads people out there. :D
Quote from: route56 on May 15, 2013, 05:58:05 PM
Seeing how there's at least three members in the Wichita area, maybe it's time to have a road meet in the southern part of the state, seeing as we've had four in the northeastern part of the state over the years.
Is anyone from down in the Wichita area willing to host. Is there anything the Wichita folks think may be of interest?
I'm not from Wichita, but I've been through there:
-Broadway Bridge over the Arkansas River
-Parts of old 96 east of Wichita
-abandoned rail bridges in rural Harvey County
-marble curb signs on Broadway at Elm
-a couple nice truss rail bridges
If I have the time, I'd be interested in attending.
Not to mention being underneath the canal route. Then there's a 14-track railroad crossing, the artistic relief on some of Kellogg's walls, and.....hmmm, I'll have to think some more about interesting things.
Quote from: kphoger on May 15, 2013, 09:55:00 PM
...and we have a Motel 6, but I really don't think you'd want to stay there. For kicks and giggles, you should read the reviews of it (http://www.tripadvisor.com/Hotel_Review-g39143-d244095-Reviews-Motel_6_Wichita-Wichita_Kansas.html) sometime. Review titles that stick out are "Scarred for life!!!", "Urine. Everywhere.", and "Nastiest place ever!".
I don't remember where I stayed last time I stopped. Somewhere near I-135 and US 81. It was before I discovered TripAdvisor.
I might be up for it, if it isn't too hot. I'd rather do it now or wait until fall when it cools down.
Quote from: bugo on May 16, 2013, 02:53:14 PM
I might be up for it, if it isn't too hot. I'd rather do it now or wait until fall when it cools down.
Weenie. ;-)
Quote from: kphoger on May 15, 2013, 09:52:32 PM
Quote from: okroads on May 15, 2013, 08:19:32 PM
I would be interested; it's only about 2 hours from OKC so I could easily make the trip.
That would be awesome! I've been a fan of your websites for quite a bit longer than I've been active on this forum.
Thanks! :D
Quote from: US71 on May 16, 2013, 01:38:20 PM
- Broadway Bridge over the Arkansas River
The John Mack is definitely on my "too see" list.
I also have the idea of adding the Woody Seat Freeway (ex-K-96, née K-17) in Hutchinson
Quote from: kphoger on May 15, 2013, 09:55:00 PM
...and we have a Motel 6, but I really don't think you'd want to stay there. For kicks and giggles, you should read the reviews of it (http://www.tripadvisor.com/Hotel_Review-g39143-d244095-Reviews-Motel_6_Wichita-Wichita_Kansas.html) sometime. Review titles that stick out are "Scarred for life!!!", "Urine. Everywhere.", and "Nastiest place ever!".
I stayed in the one at Webb Road once when it was still a Scotsman Inn. And the older Motel 6 in Topeka trumps this one in terms of disgust. That one is one of just two I've demanded a refund from so I could go find another place (The other was the Blue Stem Lodge in Eureka, Kansas). The Motel 6 on the west side is fine for what it is.
As for me, about the only time of the year I can say with certainty that I'll have a free weekend is July through about mid-August.
Looks like we've got the interest; however, the availability is overlapping...
kphoger, would you be helping me setting up a date and meeting place?
Hope a date is set for this one soon. I need to start making some travel plans and figure out how I'm going to use a dwindling supply of vacation days.
July 13 and July 20 are my top two choices if June 29 is out.
Quote from: hbelkins on May 20, 2013, 11:27:45 AM
July 13 and July 20 are my top two choices if June 29 is out.
I believe I'm in town for the 20th.
Quote from: route56 on May 19, 2013, 05:15:42 PM
kphoger, would you be helping me setting up a date and meeting place?
I'll do what I can, but I've never even been to one of these thingies before...
You can PM me with what info you need.
Any progress on setting a date yet? Need to try to plan days off for travel.
At this stage I have no date preferences, so I will abide by the consensus.
In regard to road-related things to see in Wichita (and in addition to the sights mentioned upthread by US 71 and Kphoger):
* I-235/13th Street flyover--Piers are currently being erected and fill has started to go up for the abutment at the 13th Street/Windmill Road end
* Kellogg and West--Kansas' first SPUI, and a fairly unusual example of a "freeway over" SPUI (current plans call for this configuration to be retained when the I-235/Kellogg cloverleaf is upgraded to a stack/turban hybrid, though Kellogg will be widened over West Street)
* The unusually wide rights-of-way for the I-135 service interchanges at 21st Street and 8th-9th Streets (21st Street was originally planned as a trumpet, and later built as a volleyball before it was reconstructed as a conventional diamond in a project linked with the revitalization of 21st Street east of I-135, which is a sort of main street for the black part of town; 8th-9th Streets was at one time planned as the eastern terminus of the cancelled Inner Loop freeway/western terminus of the boulevard-standard Northeast Diagonal)
* The K-96 Northeast Freeway median barrier (possibly the first in Kansas?)
* The Kellogg downtown flyover and the Main Street gateway sculpture (design chosen after the considerable controversy caused by an initial front-runner, consisting of paired stelae which were supposed to resemble wheat heads but were widely derided as "artichoke hearts")
* Roundabouts on city streets in and around Riverside Park (the park and the surrounding neighborhoods, which were built around 1920, are one of Wichita's approximations of a picturesque garden suburb)
* Cycling facilities (not just the bike path under the Canal Route, which was praised in a 1970's FHWA publication touting the forerunner of context-sensitive design, but also the bike path along the Big Arkansas River, and the bike lanes along First and Second Streets)
* Broadway Avenue (former US 81) north of I-235 to Newton--possibly the first rural four-lane state highway in Kansas, and still a fairly unusual example of an undivided rural four-lane highway
* Color wash treatments on newer freeway retaining walls (on Kellogg, these are at Maize, Tyler, Oliver, Woodlawn, and Rock; the western touchdown of the downtown flyover also has retaining walls but these are untreated, and still look reasonably good given Wichita's semiarid climate and lack of graffiti problems)
* Cor-Ten bridges and volleyball configuration on the Kellogg/airport connector interchange
Some or all of these could be integrated into a one-hour driving tour.
In addition, there are some highway features in Wichita which could be examined as part of this visit, before they are obliterated by future construction projects. I don't know what level of interest there would be in doing this because they are all pretty unremarkable in and of themselves, but here goes:
* I-235/Kellogg cloverleaf (as noted above, scheduled for phased upgrade to a stack/turban hybrid)
* Kellogg/Turnpike interchange (double-trumpet configuration will disappear; Kellogg frontage roads will be extended to and past intersections with a new Turnpike connector roadway)
KDOT also wants to do something with the Washington Street interchange and nearby railroad overpass on Kellogg. The Wichita Area MPO (WAMPO) doesn't want any work done there, and it is unclear to me why KDOT does. I don't think a construction project at this location, if it materializes, will form part of T-WORKS. There is also the North Junction (north I-135/I-235 interchange), but any revision of its configuration will definitely not be part of T-WORKS; the only thing currently scheduled for it that I am aware of is an I-135 pavement and signing rehabilitation. (One tentative plan I have seen calls for conversion to a stack/turban hybrid, with dedicated connector roadways for the K-96 through movement to ease transitions between the State Fair Freeway and Northeast Freeway segments.)
At the meet I could undertake to have copies of key historical planning documents, such as Patterns for Thorofares, the 1965 area transportation study, the Inner Loop DEIS, the Kellogg railroad overpass EA, etc. available for inspection. (There is an environmental document of some sort for the Central Corridor railroad overpasses, which Kphoger mentioned upthread, but the copy of it that used to be in the basement of the Wichita Public Library seems to have disappeared. I do not have a camera copy of it.)
In terms of general transportation features (not road-related), I believe the foyer of Wichita's old Union Station (which is now occupied by Cox) is open to the general public, and the old Wichita Municipal Airport--which at one time offered the best celebrity-spotting anywhere in the Midwest because coast-to-coast flights basically did not exist in the early propeller age and Wichita was one of the most popular stopover points--is now an aviation museum. It is adjacent to McConnell AFB and in fact was base HQ for almost 40 years after the Air Force wrested it from the City of Wichita, but it can be reached easily without going through base security. (I have visited it, and can recommend it, though the admission price is a rather steep $8.) There is also the 20th and Piatt memorial.
Quote from: hbelkins on May 28, 2013, 03:35:30 PM
Any progress on setting a date yet? Need to try to plan days off for travel.
As I said, I'll be in town on and around July 20th. Is anyone out there who's interested but unavailable then?
I'm pretty sure July 20 works for me. My wife is going to Iowa sometime the following week, so I need to find out exactly when she's leaving to know whether I can split the drive back home into two days or need to make a power run on Sunday.
Quote from: kphoger on May 28, 2013, 06:29:56 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on May 28, 2013, 03:35:30 PM
Any progress on setting a date yet? Need to try to plan days off for travel.
As I said, I'll be in town on and around July 20th. Is anyone out there who's interested but unavailable then?
20th
should work.
20th is a good possibility. I know my boss is going to be out of town at a training the following week though...not sure if we're both allowed to be gone at once, but if it were only a day (the 22nd), I don't see why that would be a problem.
Looks like July 20th is a winner for potential turnout. I say we've got a date.
Time for phase 2: where to meet for lunch.
Should be easy. Those attending: what are your top three picks for cuisine or type of restaurant?
What's Wichita known for food wise? Whatever that is would be my top pick
Are we firm enough on this that I can request time off? I'm 100% to go, but don't want to take those days off unless there's going to be a meet, and probably don't want to wait more than another week to put the request in.
Quote from: corco on June 09, 2013, 01:21:10 PMWhat's Wichita known for food wise? Whatever that is would be my top pick
Lots of things, actually--we have quite a few good Middle Eastern restaurants (many Wichitans are descended from Lebanese and Syrian immigrants), Le Monde and Bella Luna coming to mind; TaquerÃa El Paisa makes
tacos al pastor that are to die for; Knolla's Pizza blows the usual chain offerings out of the water; Golden Bay has very good sushi and California/Japanese fusion; there is now a new Greek restaurant at Pawnee and Meridian whose Greek salad, though not strictly authentic, is quite good; DeFazio's is the traditional go-to restaurant for Italian food and is justly famous for its chicken piccata, but Bella Vita has very good lunch sandwiches and its linguine puttanesca (part of the dinner menu) is absolutely delicious; etc.
These are all sit-down restaurants that one goes to for the food, however, and are not really ideal venues for a roadgeek meet. Most of the national chains (Applebee's, TGI Fridays, etc.) have at least one outlet in Wichita. If the preference is for a locally based chain, I understand Spangles can usually be relied on for general American cuisine. (I haven't been there for at least 20 years, so I cannot speak from experience.) NuWay, another local chain, is famous for its boiled-beef burgers, but operates on a fast-food basis, and since the burgers are fairly greasy, this is far from an ideal venue for a meeting where collectible paper (road maps, etc.) is likely to be handled.
White Castle got its start in Wichita but has not had an outlet in town for more than 50 years. The gourmet grocers Dean and DeLuca apparently have their world HQ in Wichita, but not even one store in town, the nearest being in Leawood--and if it were not for that, the nearest would be in Washington, DC (!).
Okay, very cool. I'm open to anything, honestly. I'm not picky and the way I've got this trip planned out I'll be able to eat at Runza, Steak 'n Shake, In-n-Out, Chick-fil-A, and Blake's Lotaburger, so I'm in food heaven already.
Needs to be someplace with seating for the anticipated crowd, first and foremost. My preference is for standard grub; I don't do well with Japanese (sushi = blech) or other ethnic fare. Never heard of Spangles, but most people prefer regional or local places to chain places (Applebee's, etc.) for meets.
Of course a steakhouse is always a good choice.
Spangles is sort of one step above McDonalds or Burger King but they are willing to try different things. They sell pitas, for one thing, and have sold gyros (I don't know if they still do). It's sort of an attempt to be a gourmet burger joint, usually pop-culture themed (rock-and-roll, mostly). It was the first place I remember having a "Western Burger", the type of burger that had BBQ sauce and onion rings/onion straws.
One of the things that stands out to me about Wichita when I visit friends there is that Wichitans love go to out to eat. Just about any restaurant on a given Friday or Saturday night is packed.
Honestly, there are few outstanding restaurants that don't get up there in price. J N Winkler mentioned some, but I certainly wouldn't put them (the ones I've been to) in the "if you come to Wichita, you simply must eat here" category.
CUISINE
Just about any random pizza joint in Chicago beats even the best pizza in Wichita; Knolla's, as mentioned, is pretty good, but I haven't actually been inside one to know what seating is like.
Mexican food is definitely hit or miss here, and I've been told by Mexicans that the best is actually sold from taco trucks; my go-to pick is Playa Azul in Old Town (most things there are great, while a few are average), but I haven't been to the taquerÃa J N Winkler mentioned.
We do have a few middle eastern restaurants, as noted, but that cuisine isn't for everyone; I like it just fine, and either one of the two J N Winkler mentioned are good. I live just a block and a half from the N&J Café, which is also decent.
One thing that hasn't been mentioned yet is Vietnamese food. I've only been to one or two places, and would recommend Little Saigon on north Broadway for phở. Vietnamese food is definitely not for everybody, though, and their non-Vietnamese food isn't even worth buying.
FAST FOOD
I'd say NuWay is definitely one of the local favorites; the Eagles even buy out the original location for themselves when they come through town, since Joe Walsh is originally from here. It is fast food, though (as is Dog n Shake, another local favorite), so might not be ideal. Seating also might not be the best, depending on how busy it is, and I personally think it's OK but overrated.
Chick-fil-A recently "moved in" to town (there already was one, but nobody knew about it), but is pretty much always packed. Definitely not a good choice for a group.
The downtown Spangles is good for seating a group, and is a local favorite; while I wouldn't say it's only one step above McDonald's, I'd say it's still probably just two steps above Wendy's, and a few steps below Steak n Shake (which is not in Wichita).
OTHER CHAINS
As far as chains go, my wife and I often go to Granite City Food & Brewery. It's not the cheapest, but has good American-style fare, as well as local brews and a decent atmosphere.
Of what you've listed, I would probably vote for Granite City if the venue is sufficient for seating a roadmeet (assuming if by not the cheapest you're talking in the ballpark of $10-$12 with drink excluding tip), then Spangle's, then whatever else.
Of the options already mentioned, it sounds like Spangles (menu (http://www.spanglesinc.com/menu.html)) is the choice that best meets the criteria that have been mentioned--(1) locally based if it is a chain; (2) wide menu selection; (3) enough spare capacity in at least one location to accommodate a large group. Another possibility is Spear's, on Maple just east of Towne West (their menu, which unfortunately is not online with the exception of several for the offsite catering side of the business, focuses on standard Americana). They are local and can do large groups, though in Wichita they have a bit of a reputation for aiming for the over-60 set. Food is reasonable and I think they usually do a fixed-price buffet.
One other possibility is Tanya's Soup Kitchen (menu (http://tanyassoupkitchen.com/menu)), a soup-and-sandwich place for which I have heard high recommendations (I have never actually eaten there, so can't comment as to availability of seating for a large group). Another local favorite is the Artichoke Bar on North Broadway, which is justly famous for its Number Eight sandwich. It could accommodate a group of perhaps up to 10 with tables pushed together but is very much a traditional dive, with dim lighting, pool tables, bar service, etc.
Edit: I can't find pricing for Granite City Food & Brewery in Wichita (the chain is national; I suspect prices are locally set), but I remember $15-$20 for typical dinner entrées (inclusive of drink) at the one at Westroads Mall in Omaha.
Quote from: J N Winkler on June 10, 2013, 03:02:20 PM
Another local favorite is the Artichoke Bar on North Broadway, which is justly famous for its Number Eight sandwich. It could accommodate a group of perhaps up to 10 with tables pushed together but is very much a traditional dive, with dim lighting, pool tables, bar service, etc.
As I recall, it was famous with the mail carriers. I haven't been there either, but I've heard also that it's considered a dive. I also haven't heard if it's still any good, or if it just used to be.
Quote from: J N Winkler on June 10, 2013, 03:02:20 PM
I can't find pricing for Granite City Food & Brewery in Wichita (the chain is national; I suspect prices are locally set), but I remember $15-$20 for typical dinner entrées (inclusive of drink) at the one at Westroads Mall in Omaha.
Yeah, 10 to 12 dollars including a drink doesn't seem very reasonable for Granite City unless you get one of the cheapest entrées and no alcohol. If that's out of price range, then I agree Spangles might be the best bet, even though it's nothing to write home about. Is there anything healthy there, in case someone is watching their calories?
As for the others, I just can't bring myself to set something up for a place none of us has actually eaten at.
Bella Luna might also be a tad pricey, but is a safe bet for good eats–and also fits the bill of being an ethnic restaurant that has options for people who just want American-style fare.
Quote from: kphoger on June 10, 2013, 03:22:42 PMAs I recall, it was famous with the mail carriers. I haven't been there either, but I've heard also that it's considered a dive. I also haven't heard if it's still any good, or if it just used to be.
It still is a dive (a few of us had drinks there in the late afternoon a few months ago after a court hearing), and the food is still good (I had a Number Eight just a few weeks ago).
QuoteAs for the others, I just can't bring myself to set something up for a place none of us has actually eaten at.
I have actually eaten at Spears (most recently about a month ago when a cousin-in-law brought her children and mother down from Nebraska for a performance), and I would consider it a safe choice--it is just that the food doesn't really stand out for me.
QuoteBella Luna might also be a tad pricey, but is a safe bet for good eats–and also fits the bill of being an ethnic restaurant that has options for people who just want American-style fare.
Bella Luna is quite a good choice in terms of food, but I wonder how the various outlets in Wichita stack up in terms of accommodation for a group. The one on Maize (just north of 21st) was quite busy when Randy Hersh and I had dinner there on a Friday night two years ago, though we got prompt service at the bar. A friend and I tried to have lunch at the one in Bradley Fair (21st and Rock) on a weekday back in January, and had to settle for the restaurant next door (Il Vicino?) when we were told that the wait for a seat was around half an hour. I haven't tried the one at Central and Oliver.
As to price, it's easy enough to get out of there for under $12--the chicken shawarma, for example, costs $8, and I can't imagine a nonalcoholic drink (not listed on the menu) costing more than $3, though you can easily walk out of there $20 lighter if you push the boat out and get hummus as an appetizer.
QuoteYeah, 10 to 12 dollars including a drink doesn't seem very reasonable for Granite City unless you get one of the cheapest entrées and no alcohol. If that's out of price range, then I agree Spangles might be the best bet, even though it's nothing to write home about. Is there anything healthy there, in case someone is watching their calories?
In fairness, I don't know what the typical price range is for a roadmeet. I'm also spending a decent amount of money to get to Wichita- an extra however many dollars for food amounts to basically a rounding error in the context of the whole trip- if others are cool with it, I'm down.
A place like Applebee's, Chili's, Logan's Roadhouse, etc., has prices typical of normal meet lunch venues.
When I held my recent meet in Ashland, Ky., we ate at Fat Patty's. The menu is at http://www.fatpattysonline.com/menu/menu.html and I didn't hear anyone complain about prices.
Man, July 20 I will be in Albuquerque, NM for one of the biggest toy convetions of the year (Mattel reps come to it) but here is the kicker, I plan on passing through Wichita on my drive back to middle TN sometime that Monday as a county clicnhing scenic route home. I plan on running I-40 east to US 54 to I-35 south in OK and stop for the night.
Quote from: J N Winkler on May 28, 2013, 04:29:04 PM
* I-235/13th Street flyover--Piers are currently being erected and fill has started to go up for the abutment at the 13th Street/Windmill Road end
Do you know a good vantage point to see this from?
Quote from: J N Winkler on May 28, 2013, 04:29:04 PM
* The unusually wide rights-of-way for the I-135 service interchanges at 21st Street and 8th-9th Streets (21st Street was originally planned as a trumpet, and later built as a volleyball before it was reconstructed as a conventional diamond in a project linked with the revitalization of 21st Street east of I-135, which is a sort of main street for the black part of town; 8th-9th Streets was at one time planned as the eastern terminus of the cancelled Inner Loop freeway/western terminus of the boulevard-standard Northeast Diagonal)
I think I've heard you mention stub ramps at the 8th-9th exit, is that right? Where are these? My wife and I go jogging right under there a few times a week, so I can scout it out on foot ahead of time.
Quote from: kphoger on June 15, 2013, 02:01:35 PMQuote from: J N Winkler on May 28, 2013, 04:29:04 PM* I-235/13th Street flyover--Piers are currently being erected and fill has started to go up for the abutment at the 13th Street/Windmill Road end
Do you know a good vantage point to see this from?
Several are possible, though the legality varies somewhat. Legal options first:
* Shared-use (cycling/jogging/walking) trail along Windmill Road/13th Street on the north side (piers in various stages of completion from full cure to rebar cage without framing will be visible, as will the abutment; recently the contractor has moved in steel frames which I think may be used to support steel girder segments prior to field-splicing)
* Shared-use trail along Zoo Blvd. where it loops under the Big Ditch bridge to cross from the east to the west side of Zoo to connect with the Zoo and the Windmill Road cycle track (construction should be visible in the distance, looking south, and the view should include whatever is going on between the Big Ditch levees)
Questionable ones:
* Contractor's staging area south of Windmill Road (I think we would need to get permission in advance from either the KDOT project manager or the contractor)
* The top of the west Big Ditch levee, which is accessible from Windmill Road by climbing over a low rope fence, and will give a view of the work from the highest ground elevation possible in the area (per city and county ordinances, the Big Ditch is not open to general public access; in my experience a lone individual walking down one of the levees won't attract the attention of law enforcement, but a group might)
These possibilities are all on the west side of the project area, which is the only part that is readily visible to me on my more or less weekly trip to the Westlink branch library. Right now there is a 50 MPH workzone on I-235 (traffic shift, all four lanes open, lamp columns already removed) and work of some kind is clearly occurring on either side, but I haven't yet investigated what that is. I will do some foot tours and report back.
There is also a southern approach to the project area since there is a small housing subdivision tucked in between the Big Ditch and I-235 north of the Central interchange. The construction plans call for a slight realignment of the street in this area, but I don't know what is going on there right now. I will have a look the next time I am out that way by car, which will be within a week.
QuoteQuote from: J N Winkler on May 28, 2013, 04:29:04 PM
* The unusually wide rights-of-way for the I-135 service interchanges at 21st Street and 8th-9th Streets (21st Street was originally planned as a trumpet, and later built as a volleyball before it was reconstructed as a conventional diamond in a project linked with the revitalization of 21st Street east of I-135, which is a sort of main street for the black part of town; 8th-9th Streets was at one time planned as the eastern terminus of the cancelled Inner Loop freeway/western terminus of the boulevard-standard Northeast Diagonal)
I think I've heard you mention stub ramps at the 8th-9th exit, is that right? Where are these? My wife and I go jogging right under there a few times a week, so I can scout it out on foot ahead of time.
I think I had this in mind:
Flare suggesting a planned merge of two ramps feeding into I-135 southbound (http://maps.google.com/maps?q=Wichita,+KS&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Wichita,+Sedgwick,+Kansas&ll=37.699054,-97.317954&spn=0.000377,0.000603&t=h&z=21&vpsrc=6)
Not quite an Evel Knievel ramp, I'm afraid.
BTW, the Northeast Diagonal was planned to pick up the old railroad line that crosses the Canal Route somewhere between Murdock and Central, and follow that natural severance corridor out of town toward the northeast. The line has been dismantled and I believe it is now hikable, though I don't know for sure that it has undergone formal rail-to-trail conversion.
It's not rail-to-trail from the path underneath the Canal Route, at least. The bridge over the canal does still have iron rails on it, but it's barricaded. Don't get me wrong, people do walk on it, but just as a shortcut from here to there.
As for the stub ramp, that was the only thing that came to my mind. I didn't know if there were other clues I was missing, especially since I hardly ever use the ramps on the north side of the interchange.
Quote from: kphoger on June 09, 2013, 08:16:59 AM
Should be easy. Those attending: what are your top three picks for cuisine or type of restaurant?
BBQ, Gourmet Burgers (NOT 5 Guys), steak, chicken.
Mexican and Chinese make me ill, unfortunately.
Quote from: US71 on June 18, 2013, 10:56:26 PM
Quote from: kphoger on June 09, 2013, 08:16:59 AM
Should be easy. Those attending: what are your top three picks for cuisine or type of restaurant?
BBQ, Gourmet Burgers (NOT 5 Guys), steak, chicken.
Mexican and Chinese make me ill, unfortunately.
What about Pizza (noting US 71's .sig) ;)
Working on my route. I figure I will get at least four new counties in Missouri (Douglas, Ozard, Taney, Stone, Dade and Barton) by using US 60 and US 160, generally, across the southern tier of the state.
From there, I'm hoping to get a bunch of counties in both states along the Kansas/Oklahoma border, and could stay two to three hours out of Wichita on Friday night, and then drive in Saturday morning. I'm already 100 percent sure I'm staying in Lawrence on Saturday night.
At this point I don't know if I can take a leisurely drive back home on Sunday and try to grab a few more counties in KS or MO, or if I will need to make a power run home.
I'm probably going to stay in Joplin on Friday night and drive in in the morning using 400->75->54->K-254 (so I can finish my clinch of US 400). If I leave at the crack of dawn I should make Wichita before 10- meets usually start at what? 11? If the meet starts before then I can potentially adjust.
Saturday night I want to make it to at least Hutchinson before sunset, possibly (but less likely) as far as Dodge City before sunset, since I need to get as far as possible on Sunday (using US 56->NM 58->US 285->US 24->the I-70 corridor in Colorado)- I'm planning on Leadville but if I could make it to Glenwood Springs or even Grand Junction that'd be amazing, since I need to get back to Montana on Monday and would like to have time to not have to take I-15 all the way through Salt Lake for the fifth time in the last six months.
Right now I've got the time off and am planning on:
Wed night- Gordon, NE via I-90, US 212, SD 79, US 20
Thurs night- Keokuk, IA via US 20, US 275, US 136
Fri night- Joplin MO via US 136, IL 96, IL 100, US 67, IL 111, IL 255, I-255, I-270, MO 21, MO 32, MO 39, US 60, I-44
Sat night- Wichita/Hutchinson/Dodge City depending on sunlight via MO 66, K-66, K-26, US 400, US 75, US 54, K-254
Sun night- Leadville/Glenwood Spgs/Grand Jct depending on how far I make it Saturday via K-96, US 50, US 56, I-25, NM 58, US 285, US 24
Mon night- home via US 24, US 6, I-15, US 189, UT 114, US 89, UT 145, UT 68, US 89, UT 93, I-15, I-90
This'll be my first trek east of the Mississippi on a roadgeeking excursion and I'll pick up my 1000th county along the way. I think I'm shooting for 51 new counties, but since I rarely get that far east where counties are small, it's like shooting fish in a barrel for me. I'll get to eat at In 'n Out and Steak 'n Shake on the same trip, so that's a neat kind of thing.
Elkins- I don't know where you're planning on staying in Lawrence but I know from experience that the Motel 6 is awful- stayed there 2 nights in 2010 with a group for a geography conference at KU (we had about 4 rooms) and all rooms were dirty, linens in horrible perma-stained condition (I have fairly low standards).
I'm surprised that people have their routes planned so far in advance. I tend to never do that; just get a general guidance for which areas I want to go to, old signs I want to check out, counties to clinch, etc... and then the exact route is determined at most a few hours in advance, and sometimes at the spur of the moment.
"let's take US-67 for a little while", "this sectional road looks like it could be the old alignment of US-81", "ya know, if we head north on K-25 we can catch up to that thunderstorm", etc.
Quote from: agentsteel53 on June 20, 2013, 03:24:17 PM
I'm surprised that people have their routes planned so far in advance. I tend to never do that; just get a general guidance for which areas I want to go to, old signs I want to check out, counties to clinch, etc... and then the exact route is determined at most a few hours in advance, and sometimes at the spur of the moment.
"let's take US-67 for a little while", "this sectional road looks like it could be the old alignment of US-81", "ya know, if we head north on K-25 we can catch up to that thunderstorm", etc.
On my trip to Kansas City a couple weeks ago, I had my route up planned, but allowed for detours (old alignments, etc). My route home was thrown into disarray due to bad weather, so I improvised.
QuoteI'm surprised that people have their routes planned so far in advance. I tend to never do that; just get a general guidance for which areas I want to go to, old signs I want to check out, counties to clinch, etc... and then the exact route is determined at most a few hours in advance, and sometimes at the spur of the moment.
This is actually more flexible than I usually am initially.
That said, over a trip this long I'd bet a decent amount of money there will be a substantial on-the-fly routing change at some point mid-trip. There pretty much always is, either due to unforseen issues (US 90 is closed in south Texas due to forest fire!), something non-road related that's more interesting happening that causes me to take a shorter route, traffic/driving speed being faster/slower than I anticipated, or something. I plan the route to the minute and try to stick with that, but what I feel like doing mid-trip is often a lot different than what I feel like doing while looking at maps from the comfort of my own home. This gives me a guide as to how many miles I can go in a day/need to cover to get to the destinations on time (keep in mind I try really, really hard not to be in new territory after sundown, which puts substantial limitations on routing), allows me to at least research in depth the "default" route, and gets me prepped for the trip.
Quote from: route56 on June 19, 2013, 01:19:37 AM
Quote from: US71 on June 18, 2013, 10:56:26 PM
Quote from: kphoger on June 09, 2013, 08:16:59 AM
Should be easy. Those attending: what are your top three picks for cuisine or type of restaurant?
BBQ, Gourmet Burgers (NOT 5 Guys), steak, chicken.
Mexican and Chinese make me ill, unfortunately.
What about Pizza (noting US 71's .sig) ;)
If you can find a local place that's decent, go for it ;)
But no Pizza Hut, Pizza Inn, etc.
I'm hoping that I can get to the meet in time for lunch since I'll probably have to work until midnight the night before. I'm seriously considering leaving work right after and then going as far as I can get and spending the night somewhere. That would be easier for me than getting out of Pittsburg on short rest. I like the date, but other circumstances make this a wait-and-see for me.
I just stumbled upon the thread... der....
I can maybe meet up for lunch, but I don't think I can do a whole lot else. If we make lunch at around 11:30- 12 ish, I'm in.
Auntie Mae's has good grub, but I'll defer to the honorable old-timers.
ICTRds
Quote from: WichitaRoads on June 21, 2013, 01:28:02 PM
I just stumbled upon the thread... der....
I can maybe meet up for lunch, but I don't think I can do a whole lot else. If we make lunch at around 11:30- 12 ish, I'm in.
Auntie Mae's has good grub, but I'll defer to the honorable old-timers.
ICTRds
Hey Richie: he called you old! :rofl:
Quote from: US71 on June 21, 2013, 02:33:20 PM
Quote from: WichitaRoads on June 21, 2013, 01:28:02 PM
I just stumbled upon the thread... der....
I can maybe meet up for lunch, but I don't think I can do a whole lot else. If we make lunch at around 11:30- 12 ish, I'm in.
Auntie Mae's has good grub, but I'll defer to the honorable old-timers.
ICTRds
Hey Richie: he called you old! :rofl:
Highly esteemed? Seasoned? I know I'm older than a lot of posters, but still in the newbie-ish category. LOL
ICTRds
[makes unintelligible noises, Ã la Gene Rayburn's "Old Man Periwinkle" on the classic Match Game]
Auntie Mae's has a website with the menu: www.auntiemaescafe.com
I'll leave it to feedback from the rest of the crowd. If it sound's OK, we'll go with it. If not, we'll think of something else ;)
Quote from: route56 on June 21, 2013, 06:31:18 PM
Auntie Mae's has a website with the menu: www.auntiemaescafe.com
It's a possibility.
At this time, I am planning on driving up Saturday morning, and then possibly heading west to Dodge City Saturday night. That way, I could collect a few counties in west Kansas and then 3 counties in the Texas Panhandle on my way back to OKC.
Heh, my outbound route already just changed a lot- I'm going to go to Laramie to see some friends on Sunday night which lessens the total outbound trip mileage considerably, meaning I'm under no time constraints that afternoon. I'll probably still shoot for Hutchinson, maybe Great Bend, but no need or desire to go further than that.
Quote from: corco on June 23, 2013, 04:20:27 PM
Heh, my outbound route already just changed a lot- I'm going to go to Laramie to see some friends on Sunday night which lessens the total outbound trip mileage considerably, meaning I'm under no time constraints that afternoon. I'll probably still shoot for Hutchinson, maybe Great Bend, but no need or desire to go further than that.
If it's not on the agenda, there are a couple abandoned railroad bridges just west of Newton, if you're into that kind of thing ;)
My usual work schedule has me working until 2:00 on Saturdays, but I could try to have someone come in a little early for me that day. If anyone is staying in Wichita that evening and would like something to do, a bunch of us from church are going over to a friend's house for a game night–a local bridge engineer who is planning on attending the meet, believe it or not. I'm not sure what the games are going to be, but his family lives on the west side of town. It starts at 6:00, and y'all would be welcome to come.
Of course, I could always skip the lunch and meet up with you guys for the actual driving around. I'm not familiar with Auntie Mae's, and neither are the coworkers in the office right now, so I can't speak to its quality. As far as pizza goes, we usually "take and bake" Papa Murphy's, or we get it from a joint right down the street (Po' Boy) that has excellent pizza but not the greatest atmosphere to eat in. The place mentioned by J N Winkler is probably the one in town to be worth going to for pizza.
Quote from: J N Winkler on June 15, 2013, 07:24:53 PM
I-235/13th Street flyover
My engineer friend suggests that climbing the levee would probably be best.
Quote from: kphoger on June 24, 2013, 12:04:37 PM
Quote from: J N Winkler on June 15, 2013, 07:24:53 PM
I-235/13th Street flyover
My engineer friend suggests that climbing the levee would probably be best.
In a Chevy? :spin:
Checking my county-collecting route, looks like I may be southwest of Wichita in Alva, Oklahoma, on Friday night. Is there anything there? I see it's a college town.
Hope to see an itinerary and timetable soon.
Quote from: kphoger on June 24, 2013, 12:04:37 PMQuote from: J N Winkler on June 15, 2013, 07:24:53 PMI-235/13th Street flyover
My engineer friend suggests that climbing the levee would probably be best.
I carried out some reconnaissance last week (as promised) and here is what I have found:
* East of I-235, the construction site is accessible both from the south (via Hoover Road) and east (via 13th Street). Hoover has already been relocated to the east, on right-of-way purchased from Berean Baptist Church, and the oxbow length of abandoned alignment is being used for access to the abutment for the northbound-to-westbound flyover bridge. I think the intention is later to pave Hoover and 13th, since the grade of the relocation is currently slightly below the top of the pavement of the intersecting roads. Both streets are closed to public vehicular traffic but are walkable (expect a thick coating of dust on your shoes).
* The construction site is also accessible through the Sandpiper Bay subdivision on the west side of I-235. (This HOA-controlled townhouse development went up around 1985, a few years after Clean Water Act requirements for stormwater storage kicked in around 1980. "Sandpiper Bay" is thus a stormwater storage pond.) Lakewind Street and Bayshore Drive form a closed loop around the pond, and overlap the construction site at the north end. The overlapping length is now closed and plans call for it to be realigned to keep it clear of the eastbound-to-southbound flyover bridge. The most convenient access from the south is via Lakewind Street, east of the pond; it is possible to park just outside the barricade and make a short hike to the top of the east levee, which gives a good view of the total project. Unfortunately, at present the levee is covered all over with a type of weed that drops barbed seeds wherever it comes into contact with clothing and shoes. I don't know if these seeds will be gone in a month. (As an aside, I think Lakewind Street and Bayshore Drive are both technically private streets, and Sandpiper Bay in general has a marked police-state vibe with lots of signs saying "Private" this and "Private" that, but I don't think a group coming on a weekend midafternoon and staying briefly would attract attention.)
Do others who have looked at active construction projects as part of road enthusiast meets have any opinions as to whether these nuisances (dust, seeds, etc.) qualify as show-stoppers?
Quote from: hbelkins on June 24, 2013, 01:29:01 PM
Checking my county-collecting route, looks like I may be southwest of Wichita in Alva, Oklahoma, on Friday night. Is there anything there? I see it's a college town.
Hope to see an itinerary and timetable soon.
Appears to be a pony truss north of town on 281 (or was in 2009). Also a concrete "fence rail" as Bugo calls them.
Quote from: hbelkins on June 24, 2013, 01:29:01 PM
Checking my county-collecting route, looks like I may be southwest of Wichita in Alva, Oklahoma, on Friday night. Is there anything there?
There is absolutely nothing in Alva, nor in much of northwest Oklahoma aside from Woodward, for that matter. Now, as for roadgeeking things...maybe. I would advise using Google Maps to suss out possible old alignments if you're into those. If you're into bridges http://okbridges.wkinsler.com/ might help you find something worth detouring for.
As for the meet, I would love to go, since Wichita is close to home but yet I haven't ever really explored it, but as luck would have it I'll be in Kansas City, KS the following week, which will deplete my vacation time. Hopefully there will be a sequel at some point!
Quote from: Scott5114 on June 27, 2013, 05:16:16 AM
There is absolutely nothing in Alva, nor in much of northwest Oklahoma aside from Woodward, for that matter.
I was thinking more along the lines of a decent motel/hotel and a few places to eat. I would probably try to find a route through Barber, Harper, Kingman and maybe Pratt counties to get from there to Wichita on Saturday morning.
Plans now are to enter Kansas on US 160, go south on US 69 to US 166, then take it all the way to its terminus, dropping into Wowata and Washington counties in Oklahoma on the way. Then I'd dip south into OK after I clinched 166 and go west through Kay, Grant, Alfalfa and Woods counties.
Quote from: hbelkins on June 27, 2013, 12:00:21 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on June 27, 2013, 05:16:16 AM
There is absolutely nothing in Alva, nor in much of northwest Oklahoma aside from Woodward, for that matter.
I was thinking more along the lines of a decent motel/hotel and a few places to eat. I would probably try to find a route through Barber, Harper, Kingman and maybe Pratt counties to get from there to Wichita on Saturday morning.
Have you checked TripAdvisor?
Alva has a Comfort Inn, a Sonic and a Walmart Supercenter. What more could I ask for? :bigass:
Quote from: hbelkins on June 27, 2013, 11:26:00 PM
Alva has a Comfort Inn, a Sonic and a Walmart Supercenter. What more could I ask for? :bigass:
Real food? :p
Quote from: hbelkins on June 27, 2013, 11:26:00 PM
Alva has a Comfort Inn, a Sonic and a Walmart Supercenter. What more could I ask for? :bigass:
That Walmart Supercenter is likely the smallest one I have ever been in. It is more like a regular Walmart that just happens to have groceries also.
Quote from: US71 on June 24, 2013, 02:27:15 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on June 24, 2013, 01:29:01 PM
Checking my county-collecting route, looks like I may be southwest of Wichita in Alva, Oklahoma, on Friday night. Is there anything there? I see it's a college town.
Hope to see an itinerary and timetable soon.
Appears to be a pony truss north of town on 281 (or was in 2009). Also a concrete "fence rail" as Bugo calls them.
The pony truss bridge was in the midst of being replaced in August 2011, so it is likely gone by now:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm7.staticflickr.com%2F6201%2F6091305618_3435ca2bfb_z.jpg&hash=639cfc55103cf95d64648b349ab63a3a2803b2c0) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/okroads/6091305618/)
DSC05658 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/okroads/6091305618/) by okroads (http://www.flickr.com/people/okroads/), on Flickr
Quote from: okroads on June 29, 2013, 03:22:54 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on June 27, 2013, 11:26:00 PM
Alva has a Comfort Inn, a Sonic and a Walmart Supercenter. What more could I ask for? :bigass:
That Walmart Supercenter is likely the smallest one I have ever been in. It is more like a regular Walmart that just happens to have groceries also.
That's the trend. Booneville, AR has a Wal-Mart that was "remodeled" as a Supercenter.
Unless there's any objection, I'm going with WichitaRoads's suggestion of Auntie Mae's as our meet/lunch location.
Tenative itenerary so far:
- I-235/13th Street construction. [closest to Auntie Mae's]
- John Mack Bridge [Meet Photo here?]
- I-135 Canal Route.
Woo-hoo! I contibuted! :happy:
All silliness aside, what times?
ICTRds
Here's what I've got penciled down:
11:00 - 1:00 - Lunch
1:15 - 1:45 - view I-235/13th Street
2:05 - 2:25 - John Mack Bridge/Group photo
2:45 - 3:05 - View Canal Route
3:05 - 3:40 - Driving Tour - Northeast Freeway (K-96) and Kellogg (US 54/400)
3:40 - Should be back at Auntie Mae's to disperse.
Quote from: route56 on July 06, 2013, 05:28:51 PM
Here's what I've got penciled down:
11:00 - 1:00 - Lunch
1:15 - 1:45 - view I-235/13th Street
2:05 - 2:25 - John Mack Bridge/Group photo
2:45 - 3:05 - View Canal Route
3:05 - 3:40 - Driving Tour - Northeast Freeway (K-96) and Kellogg (US 54/400)
3:40 - Should be back at Auntie Mae's to disperse.
Dude, it's summer. Get an extra hour of Stuff in there.
I might just be able to do lunch... I see the tour items all the time ... LOL. Keep in mind... Aunite Mae's doesn't do reservations.
ICTRds
Quote from: Steve on July 06, 2013, 06:53:00 PM
Quote from: route56 on July 06, 2013, 05:28:51 PM
Here's what I've got penciled down:
11:00 - 1:00 - Lunch
1:15 - 1:45 - view I-235/13th Street
2:05 - 2:25 - John Mack Bridge/Group photo
2:45 - 3:05 - View Canal Route
3:05 - 3:40 - Driving Tour - Northeast Freeway (K-96) and Kellogg (US 54/400)
3:40 - Should be back at Auntie Mae's to disperse.
Dude, it's summer. Get an extra hour of Stuff in there.
It would take at least an extra hour to do the abandoned railroad bridges west of Newton ;)
Any other RR or highway bridges of interest?
Quote from: US71 on July 07, 2013, 05:11:22 PM
Quote from: Steve on July 06, 2013, 06:53:00 PM
Quote from: route56 on July 06, 2013, 05:28:51 PM
Here's what I've got penciled down:
11:00 - 1:00 - Lunch
1:15 - 1:45 - view I-235/13th Street
2:05 - 2:25 - John Mack Bridge/Group photo
2:45 - 3:05 - View Canal Route
3:05 - 3:40 - Driving Tour - Northeast Freeway (K-96) and Kellogg (US 54/400)
3:40 - Should be back at Auntie Mae's to disperse.
Dude, it's summer. Get an extra hour of Stuff in there.
It would take at least an extra hour to do the abandoned railroad bridges west of Newton ;)
Any other RR or highway bridges of interest?
Looks like you have time...
The sun goes down at what, 8:45? If the meet's done at 4:00 I'm cool with it and I'll use the time to clinch the six northern Oklahoma counties I'm missing, but I'd also be down with another hour or two of stuff if there's stuff to see. Or I'll just stick to the original route and get to Laramie earlier, which isn't necessarily of any benefit as friends may not be available until later in the evening and I don't have to leave until pretty late the next day- I basically have two non road-clinching priorities on this trip (and by that point in the trip I'll probably be getting burnt out on road-clinching, since I'm taking 3.5 days to take a 1.5 day trip and going all the way out to Illinois on the way east)- 1) is the Wichita meet and 2) is seeing some old friends in Laramie, so I'm fine maximizing the time in Wichita if there's something else to see.
If others are in a time rush, maybe we could cluster into an "early" car/carpool and a "late" car/carpool, and the folks pooling to leave early can turn back sooner and the rest of us can continue on? (assuming there are other worthwhile things to see)
Most meets have an after-meet activity. This can be a sporting event, dinner, or it can be more driving. For example, after the Indy meet there was an excursion to Illinois and back, seeing old brick roads and covered bridges. Come up with some stuff to see afterwards, and you can come back at 3:40 or 4:40 and see who wants to continue on. An extreme example was the Akron/Canton meet, where everyone (16 or so people) just kept saying "Yeah, let's see the next thing!" and we went till 7 or 8.
Ah, that's a good idea. I'm still reasonably new to the roadmeet thing- the only one I was at was the Tulsa meet which went until well after sundown
I don't know if it's because I'm getting more impatient and curmudgeonly or what, but in general I am not too crazy about meet tours that stretch over three hours. I generally have a personal itinerary for after the meet and the longer the meet goes, the less time I have for that. As it currently stands, the posted itinerary and ending time works well for me, leaving Wichita by 5 p.m. my time. (I hate Central Time). If the meet tour goes longer than 4:40 EDT (3:40 local time) then I will probably drive solo on the tour and then split off to head east.
I hope to get to town early enough on Saturday to clinch I-235, assuming I don't overnight there Friday night. And that all depends on how much I get done Friday.
Quote from: route56 on July 06, 2013, 05:28:51 PM
Here's what I've got penciled down:
11:00 - 1:00 - Lunch
1:15 - 1:45 - view I-235/13th Street
2:05 - 2:25 - John Mack Bridge/Group photo
2:45 - 3:05 - View Canal Route
3:05 - 3:40 - Driving Tour - Northeast Freeway (K-96) and Kellogg (US 54/400)
3:40 - Should be back at Auntie Mae's to disperse.
I might suggest coming up with and posting a written turn-by-turn itinerary that people can download and print and bring to the meet, in case drivers get separated. The last few meets I've been to have utilized them, and they've come in handy.
Quote from: US71 on July 07, 2013, 05:11:22 PM
Quote from: Steve on July 06, 2013, 06:53:00 PM
Quote from: route56 on July 06, 2013, 05:28:51 PM
Here's what I've got penciled down:
11:00 - 1:00 - Lunch
1:15 - 1:45 - view I-235/13th Street
2:05 - 2:25 - John Mack Bridge/Group photo
2:45 - 3:05 - View Canal Route
3:05 - 3:40 - Driving Tour - Northeast Freeway (K-96) and Kellogg (US 54/400)
3:40 - Should be back at Auntie Mae's to disperse.
Dude, it's summer. Get an extra hour of Stuff in there.
It would take at least an extra hour to do the abandoned railroad bridges west of Newton ;)
Any other RR or highway bridges of interest?
Just southeast of the John Mack Bridge along the Ark River is a pretty interesting railroad tressel over the river...
ICTRds
Quote from: hbelkins on July 08, 2013, 12:31:54 AM
Quote from: route56 on July 06, 2013, 05:28:51 PM
Here's what I've got penciled down:
11:00 - 1:00 - Lunch
1:15 - 1:45 - view I-235/13th Street
2:05 - 2:25 - John Mack Bridge/Group photo
2:45 - 3:05 - View Canal Route
3:05 - 3:40 - Driving Tour - Northeast Freeway (K-96) and Kellogg (US 54/400)
3:40 - Should be back at Auntie Mae's to disperse.
I might suggest coming up with and posting a written turn-by-turn itinerary that people can download and print and bring to the meet, in case drivers get separated. The last few meets I've been to have utilized them, and they've come in handy.
I can make one of those once we have a finalized list. I'm pretty good (and detailed!) at giving directions that people can actually follow.
I work till 2:00 PM, but I can see if someone can come in a little early for me that day for me to make the 1:15 start time.
Quote from: Steve on July 07, 2013, 10:31:09 PM
Most meets have an after-meet activity. This can be a sporting event, dinner, or it can be more driving. For example, after the Indy meet there was an excursion to Illinois and back, seeing old brick roads and covered bridges. Come up with some stuff to see afterwards, and you can come back at 3:40 or 4:40 and see who wants to continue on. An extreme example was the Akron/Canton meet, where everyone (16 or so people) just kept saying "Yeah, let's see the next thing!" and we went till 7 or 8.
I've mentioned it upthread, but I already have evening plans–game night at some friends' house on the west side. It's open to anyone who's interested.
Quote from: US71 on July 07, 2013, 05:11:22 PM
It would take at least an extra hour to do the abandoned railroad bridges west of Newton ;)
Any other RR or highway bridges of interest?
Quote from: WichitaRoads on July 08, 2013, 01:47:06 AM
Just southeast of the John Mack Bridge along the Ark River is a pretty interesting railroad tressel over the river...
I'm up for whatever you guys want to see. Nothing around here takes too terribly long to get to.
Quote from: hbelkins on July 08, 2013, 12:31:54 AM
I might suggest coming up with and posting a written turn-by-turn itinerary that people can download and print and bring to the meet, in case drivers get separated. The last few meets I've been to have utilized them, and they've come in handy.
Seeing as how the chief meeting planner is coming in from some 150 miles away, that's probably not going to happen
Quote from: route56 on July 08, 2013, 09:05:25 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on July 08, 2013, 12:31:54 AM
I might suggest coming up with and posting a written turn-by-turn itinerary that people can download and print and bring to the meet, in case drivers get separated. The last few meets I've been to have utilized them, and they've come in handy.
Seeing as how the chief meeting planner is coming in from some 150 miles away, that's probably not going to happen
You still have time to drive down there and work it out ;)
Quote from: US71 on July 08, 2013, 09:09:29 PM
You still have time to drive down there and work it out ;)
I prefer carpooling
(BTW, any chance you can install the seats in your van. I drive a two-door now)
Quote from: route56 on July 08, 2013, 11:14:05 PM
Quote from: US71 on July 08, 2013, 09:09:29 PM
You still have time to drive down there and work it out ;)
I prefer carpooling
(BTW, any chance you can install the seats in your van. I drive a two-door now)
Give me the stops, and I can make the directions.
And I own a minivan as well.
I was going to say, surely the tour is not going to be done on the fly, is it? Those usually don't turn out well.
I don't mean to inject myself into an overcrowded kitchen, but I am actually local to Wichita and have already scoped out some of the places that are on the tentative plan. If no-one else wants to do it, I can easily make up a series of Google Maps itineraries to cover the driving segment of the meet.
I am planning to be there both for lunch and for the driving tour. I will also be taking my car on the drive, so I am offering the front passenger seat to anyone who wants to ride along. (In theory I can seat three in the back seat, but since my current ride is a 1994 Saturn SL2, legroom is very limited.)
I really think having a pre-planned route is a Good Thing. I don't think the "Let's go here, then let's go here; OK, where do we go next? OK, I know, we'll go there!" model works very well.
And as a member of a family that owns a 1997 Saturn SL2, I understand the legroom issue. I generally can't drive on meets to which I travel out of state or overnight because I carry so much junk in my vehicle, especially on long-distance trips.
Quote from: hbelkins on July 09, 2013, 12:01:47 PM
I was going to say, surely the tour is not going to be done on the fly, is it? Those usually don't turn out well.
No. I just did some high-level scoping out of an itenerary, and picked the three stops and driving tour so that it should fit in a three-hour tour (a three-hour tour)
Quote from: J N Winkler on July 09, 2013, 12:46:02 PM
I don't mean to inject myself into an overcrowded kitchen, but I am actually local to Wichita and have already scoped out some of the places that are on the tentative plan. If no-one else wants to do it, I can easily make up a series of Google Maps itineraries to cover the driving segment of the meet.
Much appreciated. I could use some help finding the spots to park and walk to the photo op, especially with the I-235/13th Street project, since I am *not* local.
Let's start a list of every spot you're interested in seeing, and we should be able to get a decent itinerary going.
Also let us know how "up" you are for driving to Newton. Road-related things to see along the way would include the crappy I-135/K-254/I-235/K-96 interchange, undivided four-lane Old 81 between the two cities, roundabout-under-freeway interchanges in Newton....possibly more.
I think Newton would be better saved for the next meet... either that, or St. Josephl/Atchison
Quote from: route56 on July 10, 2013, 02:01:59 PM
I think Newton would be better saved for the next meet... either that, or St. Josephl/Atchison
I'd be all in for that in a couple of years. Would give me an excuse to get more counties in the area.
Quote from: route56 on July 08, 2013, 11:14:05 PM
Quote from: US71 on July 08, 2013, 09:09:29 PM
You still have time to drive down there and work it out ;)
I prefer carpooling
(BTW, any chance you can install the seats in your van. I drive a two-door now)
Probably won't have time. Got to run a bunch of stuff to LR next Thursday.
T - 7 Days: Lunch place Set, hourney route laid out. Jonathan Winkler will scout out the spots. Am I missing anything (besides giving the restaurant notice that we're coming)
Have had to change my travel plans. The Comfort Inn in Alva is already full up for next Friday night. So I have two alternate routes picked once I get to the end of US 166. If I have time, I'm going to do a loop south into Oklahoma and back north into Kansas. If the hour is getting late, I'm going to head on to Wichita and then just try to collect some of the surrounding counties.
Oh geez, good call. I have basically three possible routes devised depending on what time I get out of Wichita on Saturday, and the longest of those three had me actually spending the night in Alva on Saturday night, figured it would be no problem to get a room but it looks like it's full Saturday too.
Back to the drawing board, then. That was easy enough- spend the night in Pratt. http://goo.gl/maps/r6hQ3 If Wichita goes long, there's shorter ways to get to Pratt. That costs me an Oklahoma county and a Nebraska county over what I was planning, but gets me a Colorado county and an extra three Kansas counties, so that dog'll hunt, though probably it's a net less interesting drive (Great Bend to Fort Morgan is likely going to be fairly brutal).
My final route is I-90->US 212->SD 79->US 385->US 20->US 275->US 136->MO/IA 148->IA 2->IA 1->US 151->IA/IL 64->IL 84->IL 92->IL 192->IL 94->IL 96->IL 100->US 67->IL 111->IL 3->I-255->I-270->MO 21->MO 32->MO 137->MO 76->MO 125->US 60->I-44->US 400->US 75->K-254->I-235->I-135->K-15->US 77->OK 11->US 281->K/CO-96->CO 71->CO 14->CO 52->CO 119->I-25->CO 14->US 287->WYO 487->WYO 220->I-25->I-90->US 14->WYO 345->MT S-451->I-90->MT S-295->I-90, so that's something.
7/16 after work- Billings, MT
7/17- Fremont, NE
7/18- Fort Madison, IA
7/19- Miami, OK
7/20- Pratt, KS
7/21- Laramie, WY
7/22- Deer Lodge (home)
There are some independent motels in Alva, but I don't know anything about their quality, or availability, so I just decided to try to find a place elsewhere.
Yeah, the Alva Motel seems to have good reviews. That said, I don't want to make a reservation in Alva that night because I'd only be able to make it if I get out of town right at four, and if the Comfort Inn is booked I'm guessing there's something happening in town that'll make availability rough everywhere and not worth risking a walkin (as you know, there's nowhere else to stay near there). I guess I could call as I leave Wichita, but I don't want to hassle with that
Pratt works well enough that I'm comfortable making a reservation- absolute worst case is I've already driven 54/400 from Wichita to Pratt, so I could even do that after sunset (though I'd really rather not). I won't be able to clinch Dundy County, Nebraska, whose non clinching has been annoying me for years, and arrive in Laramie at a reasonable time unless I bypass the Front Range completely (not an option as I want to stock up on some Laughing Lab (http://beeradvocate.com/beer/profile/848/2928), a Colorado-only beer) , but that can wait till a later point.
After some reconnaissance, I have fleshed out Richie's itinerary upthread into a tentative driving route:
Auntie Mae's Cafe to west side of I-235/13th Street flyover project (https://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&source=s_d&saddr=Auntie+Mae%27s+Cafe,+9125+West+Central,+Wichita,+KS+67212&daddr=N+Lakewind+St&hl=en&geocode=FcQpPwIdTREx-il3ZY1CXuG6hzEQaVPJlrpwUA%3BFW5TPwId_KYx-g&sll=37.704722,-97.408916&sspn=0.002135,0.004823&vpsrc=0&mra=mift&mrsp=1&sz=18&ie=UTF8&t=m&z=18)
This takes us through the I-235/Central Ave. interchange, which on the west side has what are probably Kansas' only two examples of California-style scissor ramps. They will disappear when KDOT reconstructs the interchange into a conventional diamond as part of the I-235/Kellogg project. (The right-of-way impacts will be significant since KDOT will have to purchase the houses on Gilda which will be left with no access when Gilda is vacated to make way for ramps.)
Across I-235 to east side of project area (optional) (https://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&source=s_d&saddr=1055+N+Lakewind+St,+Wichita,+KS+67212&daddr=37.703325,-97.407887&hl=en&geocode=CatY6mGVXGcRFetMPwIduaQx-im_2cIY9uC6hzG7hfMgzUsYww%3B&sll=37.70344,-97.407312&sspn=0.002135,0.004823&vpsrc=0&mra=mift&mrsp=1&sz=18&ie=UTF8&t=m&z=18)
This allows us to see the Hoover Road relocation if time permits and we are interested.
I-235/13th Street project area to John Mack Bridge (https://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&source=s_d&saddr=N+Hoover+Rd&daddr=37.6845342,-97.3469353+to:37.6806473,-97.3436734+to:37.6496648,-97.336038+to:37.6432441,-97.3355157+to:E+Carp+St&hl=en&geocode=FZ1OPwIdeqwx-g%3BFTYFPwIdiZoy-imPO-qo4OO6hzEY1snpIrH2tA%3BFQf2PgIdR6cy-imDTowq5OO6hzHKf95zeWRduA%3BFQB9PgIdGsUy-ilrRhSsFuS6hzGdFUa4iYEKAg%3BFexjPgIdJccy-ilfhGPiPeS6hzFbDxdRDClzAQ%3BFd1hPgIdvMUy-g&sll=37.685247,-97.346592&sspn=0.017083,0.038581&vpsrc=6&mra=dpe&mrsp=1&sz=15&via=1,2,3,4&ie=UTF8&ll=37.666293,-97.36187&spn=0.06835,0.154324&t=m&z=13) (NB: the loop just south of the John Mack Bridge is an error since Google Maps does not acknowledge that it is possible to turn right directly off Broadway into Carp Street, which offers the most convenient parking)
This route follows McLean Boulevard, which was identified in Patterns for Thorofares (1955: Wichita's first modern thoroughfare plan) as part of a possible freeway corridor. (The freeway would have begun at Kellogg and followed McLean, Central, and Zoo in a northwesterly direction.) There is a brief detour to take us through the Douglas and Sycamore roundabout in Delano, one of three in Wichita, and the route also takes us past an old wooden railroad trestle (which has since been upgraded with the installation of a concrete trackbed and concrete trestle caps) between Lincoln and Harry.
John Mack Bridge to west end of Third Street canal under Canal Route (https://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&source=s_d&saddr=2800-2836+S+Broadway+St,+Wichita,+KS+67216&daddr=37.6077944,-97.3326872+to:E+3rd+St+N&hl=en&geocode=FU9gPgIdp8cy-ikD9BB4PuS6hzFGqRaZvaEkRw%3BFXLZPQIdMdIy-injcDXSxuW6hzGA-0FS1ZZilA%3BFWohPwId_RQz-g&sll=37.620214,-97.307281&sspn=0.068392,0.154324&vpsrc=6&mra=dpe&mrsp=1&sz=13&via=1&ie=UTF8&ll=37.666361,-97.301273&spn=0.034175,0.077162&t=m&z=14)
This route is purposely indirect to take us past a couple of features of interest. The first of these is a railroad grade separation on South Broadway between 31st Street and MacArthur which is currently being replaced on a shifted alignment. The historic house at the north end of the overpass was a source of controversy when this project was being planned. The second is the new 47th Street/I-135 interchange, which was the only one of Kansas' major ARRA projects to be done in Wichita. Entering I-135 near its southern terminus allows us to see both of the two major canal cross-sections associated with the Canal Route: the ground-level length between K-15 and Douglas (the watercourse, which is the canalization of Chisholm Creek as it passes through Wichita, is within a concrete-lined ditch), and the viaduct segment between Douglas and 17th Street. Third Street is the best stopping place to see a Wichita curiosity: a canal, rather than a paved street, in the Third Street corridor between the Canal Route and Hillside.
Driving tour back to Auntie Mae's following Canal Route (I-135), Northeast Freeway (K-96), and Kellogg Avenue (US 54-400) (https://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&source=s_d&saddr=E+3rd+St+N&daddr=37.700392,-97.3081758+to:37.7320239,-97.2192271+to:37.6740331,-97.4440661+to:9125+W+Central+Ave,+Wichita,+KS&hl=en&geocode=FWohPwId_RQz-g%3BFShDPwId8TEz-ikvbESLB-O6hzFgIC2X9XTl0Q%3BFbe-PwIdZY00-imVCGAhof26hzGBMsnCuxC_OQ%3BFTHcPgIdHh8x-iknSWjwG966hzF_6Z2s5N-O4w%3BFYEoPwId5wsx-imxVPrXMd66hzGE1hhiXQYBGA&aq=0&oq=9125+W.+CEn&sll=37.689798,-97.394657&sspn=0.068328,0.154324&vpsrc=0&mra=dpe&mrsp=3&sz=13&via=1,2,3&ie=UTF8&t=m&z=13)
Getting back onto I-135 at the 8th-9th Street interchange allows us to see what was at one time the proposed northern terminus of the Inner Loop freeway and the southern terminus of the Northeast Diagonal (both proposed roads fell by the wayside in the 1970's). On Grove, we will cross an abandoned trackbed which the Northeast Diagonal was to follow. The remainder of the itinerary will be straightforward freeway driving, with the exception of the transition from K-96 to the east end of the Kellogg freeway at Cypress (this length is still signalized). This leg of the route takes us through the future locations of the Kellogg/KTA/Webb interchange upgrade and the Kellogg/I-235 stack/turban hybrid, various phases of which are on KDOT's T-WORKS to-do list.
This route is do-able within three hours. Google Maps' listed driving times aggregate to 88 minutes, including the Hoover Road option. The amount of time all of this takes will depend on how long we spend outside our cars. I'd say each of the four stops is good for at least fifteen minutes' worth of exploration on foot, but our appetite for this will depend considerably on the weather--right now it is fairly cool and humid due to recent rainstorms (temperatures generally in the seventies), but we have had hundred-degree days recently.
If there is enough interest, I am happy to rejig the leg between I-235/13th Street and the John Mack Bridge to include transits of Wichita's other two roundabouts in Riverside. This can be done without adding more than five or ten minutes to total journey time, but the routing is fairly convoluted since all three roundabouts are located near the confluence of the Little and Big Arkansas Rivers.
Seen one roundabout, you've seen 'em all, and I'm not a roundabout fan. :bigass:
Yeah unless there's something particularly unique about these roundabouts, I'm good
J N Winkler:
The routes are good. Thank you for your work.
[13th to John Mack] - The Delano roundabout is the best one to visit in Wichita, since it's the busiest and the tightest. I note we also get to use our left signals at it if we wish. :) And, since I'm talking about roundabouts–while I am a roundabout fan, I recently had my fix. We just got back from a trip to Branson which included (without even planning ahead) driving through the Fredonia roundabout (https://maps.google.com/?ll=37.529893,-95.801682&spn=0.002489,0.003449&t=h&z=18) three times, Springfield's National Avenue DDI (https://maps.google.com/?ll=37.141948,-93.278035&spn=0.005003,0.006899&t=h&z=17) one time, Branson's 65/248 DDI (https://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ll=36.657059,-93.221741&spn=0.005035,0.006899&t=h&z=17) probably six times or so, the Branson Landing roundabout (https://maps.google.com/?ll=36.649807,-93.219611&spn=0.002518,0.003449&t=h&z=18) at least six times, and the weird sorta-roundabout thing between Branson and Hollister (https://maps.google.com/?ll=36.634949,-93.213447&spn=0.002518,0.003449&t=h&z=18) who knows how many times. So, yeah, only hitting one roundabout is fine with me.
[John Mack to 3rd Street Canal] - If we "miss" the light at 2nd Street, we could get the opportunity to legally turn left from the center lane against a red light–something that isn't all too common. If not, we'll just have to imagine it. Third Street is brick, which is also a plus.
[Driving tour] - Good to see you included the old railroad grade on Grove; I like that crossing. Also glad to see you included the very long ramp from the canal route to K-96.
Here's a short list of "oh darn"s about the route–but things which would probably increase our drive time to work around. So I'm not sure redoing things is even worth it.
[1] No SPUI action.
[2] No frontage road crossover action (could be added via the rebound at McLean & Sycamore if anyone cares).
[3] No volleyball at Kellogg & Ridge.
[4] Only includes straight-through movements at the Kellogg/135 turban, no ramps.
I'm able to get off work at 1:00 PM, so I could be to the west side at about 1:15. The first stop being right off I-235 means it might work out very well for me to just meet everyone there. Is that still a good itinerary?
Quote from: kphoger on July 17, 2013, 09:47:43 AMHere's a short list of "oh darn"s about the route–but things which would probably increase our drive time to work around. So I'm not sure redoing things is even worth it.
[1] No SPUI action.
[2] No frontage road crossover action (could be added via the rebound at McLean & Sycamore if anyone cares).
[3] No volleyball at Kellogg & Ridge.
[4] Only includes straight-through movements at the Kellogg/135 turban, no ramps.
I opted for simplicity since some of the out-of-town visitors had expressed concern about budgeting time for county collecting after the meet. However, in a car with a local driver and passengers not too concerned about time, it is easy enough to incorporate some of these elements on the final leg of the drive. (1) is easily taken care of by exiting on West Street and passing straight through the West Street light before merging back onto Kellogg. (Alternatively, if a turn at the SPUI is desired, we could easily hang a U at the light, get back onto Kellogg, exit at Edwards/Southwest Blvd., and use Southwest Blvd. and I-235 to backtrack to Kellogg.) (2) and (3) can both be taken care of by exiting at Dugan, taking the crossover, following the eastbound frontage road to the Hoover underpass, and then taking the westbound frontage road west through the lights at Dugan and Ridge, following the weaving lane on Kellogg without merging, and then exiting at Tyler.
Since the driving plan calls for two transits of the Kellogg/I-135 turban, the first taking us through at the bottom level where the ramps are at their most impressive, we also have the option on the second go of exiting onto I-135 southbound (instead of continuing on Kellogg westbound), using the Lincoln Street folded-diamond partial cloverleaf immediately south to do an U-turn, and then taking the longest and tallest flyover ramp to merge back onto Kellogg westbound. That would take care of (4) with two ramp trips.
My instinct was to play all of this by ear on the day. Currently we are predicted to have a high of around 95° with some cloud. If that turns out to be true and sky polarization is sharp, it should be fantastic driving weather. If we get 105° instead with haze, enthusiasm might wilt.
QuoteI'm able to get off work at 1:00 PM, so I could be to the west side at about 1:15. The first stop being right off I-235 means it might work out very well for me to just meet everyone there. Is that still a good itinerary?
I think that sounds like a solid plan.
Some recent meets in the eastern US have featured an "after-meet" tour, picking up some things not on the original itinerary in case someone was interested. At my Ashland, Ky. meet several of us went out to an old abandoned railroad truss bridge on the property of Shawn DeCesari's family. After the Portsmouth, N.H. meet, John Housty did a tour of the Portsmouth area. And when I went to the Oklahoma City multi-day meet, some of the attendees went to see some Canadian River bridges after the evening meal which was part of the tour.
So it might be that some things could be added on at the conclusion of the meet, after we all return to the restaurant parking lot or whatever other facility us non-tour-drivers may use to leave our vehicles during the meet tour.
Quote from: hbelkins on July 17, 2013, 12:56:48 PM
Some recent meets in the eastern US have featured an "after-meet" tour, picking up some things not on the original itinerary in case someone was interested. At my Ashland, Ky. meet several of us went out to an old abandoned railroad truss bridge on the property of Shawn DeCesari's family. After the Portsmouth, N.H. meet, John Housty did a tour of the Portsmouth area. And when I went to the Oklahoma City multi-day meet, some of the attendees went to see some Canadian River bridges after the evening meal which was part of the tour.
So it might be that some things could be added on at the conclusion of the meet, after we all return to the restaurant parking lot or whatever other facility us non-tour-drivers may use to leave our vehicles during the meet tour.
I might be interested depending on time.
Another option is to stagger the return times to Auntie Mae's (where I assume we will be leaving cars). One set of cars would follow the bare-bones itinerary, while the other would take the interesting detours, and arrive perhaps fifteen to twenty minutes later. This would mean we would all have to say our goodbyes at the Third Street stop, rather than at Auntie Mae's after completing the full itinerary, but would this cause difficulties?
I'd personally prefer to stay together the whole length of the main tour. Not having met anyone before, I'd rather have the last good-bye be at the end of the tour. But that's just me.
Being a local, all those "extras" I mentioned aren't even for my benefit anyway: I've obviously already seen them, since I live here. Whatever other people would like to see/transit is cool with me. An after-meet tour, while interesting, probably wouldn't be in the cards for me, since our family has plans that evening.
JNW, your handling of my [4] is actually pretty good. Merging from Lincoln to NB I-135 can be dicey, especially with more than two vehicles, but staying in the exit lane until past the gore point (which your plan allows) makes it substantially less harrowing; plus, the ramp from WB Kellogg to SB I-135 is probably my second-favorite way to see the interchange (my favorite being the more accident-prone SB to EB), with an over-under-under-under-under bridge layout, relatively straightforward APL signage, and relatively easy merging. Good deal.
Has anyone been thinking about photography?
Quote from: kphoger on July 17, 2013, 02:06:38 PMHas anyone been thinking about photography?
I have been. Unfortunately, it is necessary to make some compromises in order to keep trip length under three hours. We will be approaching I-235/13th Street from the south, which is advantageous for photography. Most of our southbound travel (into the sun) will be on McLean Boulevard, which has little in terms of signing that is worth photographing. The parking place I suggest for the John Mack Bridge offers the easiest access for photography. Once we hit the Canal Route we will be travelling northbound and it will still be relatively early in the afternoon, so signs will be more or less directly illuminated by the sun. On the northern flank of K-96 we will also have the sun at our shoulders. The big loss is the eastern flank of K-96 and the whole length on Kellogg, where we will be driving into the sun. The only real way to counter this is to do a post-meet tour that takes Kellogg in the eastbound direction, with the sun over our shoulders.
So how many attendees are we looking at? I have 2013 Kentucky maps for everyone. Giveaway items are in short supply these days, but I may be able to scrounge up litter bags, keychains and pens if we're looking at a dozen or so people who participate.
I'm attending, plus one friend of mine.
BTW, how do we find each other at Auntie Mae's? My friend was asking yesterday, "Do I just walk in and ask, So are you the roadgeeks?"
I'll be able to come for lunch, not sure about the actual tours. And once again, I have to remind that Auntie Mae's doesn't do reservations, that I know of. I know I recommended the place, but that's the one big crap in the hat with the place, so to speak.
ICTRds
Quote from: kphoger on July 18, 2013, 12:24:01 PMBTW, how do we find each other at Auntie Mae's? My friend was asking yesterday, "Do I just walk in and ask, So are you the roadgeeks?"
A lot of us are on Facebook with relatively up-to-date profile pictures, and some of us know each other (at least slightly) from previous roadgeek meets. I also suspect we will be the only large party at Auntie Mae's, let alone one with road-related articles such as maps close to hand. I am also planning on bringing my laptop--though this is strictly on spec (I don't know if there will be table room for it).
My tentative head count (taking into account the people who have said here, on Facebook feeds visible to me, or on the Facebook event page for this meet, that they plan to go) is fourteen, of which two are maybes.
Edit: Count revised after closer examination of the Facebook event page for the meet.
Run into a little snag on my end.... my alternator decided to go out on me.
I was planning on carpooling with Gene Van (and come in via Manhattan and Salina so Gene can clinch I-135 and I-235), but it looks like we'll be taking his Jeep once again.
How do we recognize one another? Generally, people gather out in the parking lot prior to going into the restaurant and usually go in as a group.
I'll be driving a blue Saturn Vue that can be identified by the Kentucky license plate, as well as the UK, Dale Earnhardt and anti-Obama stickers on the back window. Unfortunately a car wash ate my Cape May-Lewes Ferry sticker back in the winter.
I have met David, Gene and Richie before. And last I heard, Cody was coming from Alabama and I saw him two weeks ago.
I don't say "yes" to Facebook invitations, which is why I left mine as "maybe" so I could get meet updates but confirmed my attendance here.
I managed to snag goodies that will accommodate 15 folks -- pens, litter bags, cheap plastic keychains and little vehicle document holders -- and I also have enough 2013 Kentucky maps to give everybody one and some people two if they want.
I'm in Paducah tonight, having gotten most of my Kentucky journey out of the way today. Tomorrow it's a drive across southern Missouri to pick up a few counties, then across southern Kansas with some forays into Oklahoma before I turn north for Wichita.
OK, well, finding a group of a dozen people in a small restaurant shouldn't be too hard no matter what. I think Brad is planning to get to the restaurant around noon or so.
If you have a few extra minutes to spare, I recommend taking the scenic way into Missouri, using Tick Ridge Road–like this (https://maps.google.com/maps?saddr=US-45+N%2FPaducah-Brookport+Rd&daddr=37.1563198,-88.7090577+to:37.2414484,-88.9332137+to:I-57+S&hl=en&ll=37.050793,-88.953552&spn=1.28232,1.766052&sll=37.061753,-88.646622&sspn=0.32054,0.441513&geocode=FVUlNgIdL5K3-g%3BFd_1NgIdP2i2-ilDea95gQR6iDGzSZPg1OPqwQ%3BFWhCOAIdo_yy-ik_aLlh2vx5iDEO2VoUawlNZw%3BFW2yNAIdao-u-g&mra=dme&mrsp=0&sz=11&via=1,2&t=m&z=9) or some variation thereof.
Quote from: hbelkins on July 18, 2013, 09:14:19 PMHow do we recognize one another? Generally, people gather out in the parking lot prior to going into the restaurant and usually go in as a group.
Auntie Mae's is a sit-down restaurant, so it does make sense to go in as a group in order to be seated as a group, but when we state the number of people in our party, we should ensure there are spare seats for any stragglers who get held up by traffic, have difficulty finding the restaurant, cannot come at 11 sharp, etc. It also wouldn't surprise me to find people waiting inside next to the hostess desk since it will be quite warm even at 11 AM.
I will be coming in a white 1994 Saturn SL2, and I am planning to be there at 11 AM promptly.
Auntie Mae's opened in 2012 and so is not in any StreetView imagery for Central near Tyler, which dates from 2011. Based on a comparison of Yelp photos (http://www.yelp.com/biz_photos/auntie-maes-cafe-wichita-2?select=s5dh1swY_XDFqdz6e5LItA) with StreetView imagery (https://maps.google.com/maps?q=Auntie+Mae%27s+Cafe,+Wichita,+KS&ie=UTF8&hq=Auntie+Mae%27s+Cafe,+Wichita,+KS&hnear=&radius=15000&ll=37.694012,-97.449067&spn=0.001068,0.002411&t=m&z=19&vpsrc=6&layer=c&cbll=37.694012,-97.449067&panoid=TN5cERQ-E8citF2o8x0Z8Q&cbp=12,173.62,,0,7.41), I think Auntie Mae's is in the building to the left of the muffler shop that is shown as having space to let. This building and the attached muffler shop are a self-contained island in the far west corner of the Westlink strip shopping center. If you come from the east on Central and find yourself crossing the bridge over the minor drainage that parallels Westlink Avenue, you have overshot.
Do I need to make printed point-by-point directions? My time this weekend is at a premium, so I'll need a finalized list of sites if so.
Quote from: J N Winkler on July 19, 2013, 12:43:40 AM
Quote from: hbelkins on July 18, 2013, 09:14:19 PMHow do we recognize one another? Generally, people gather out in the parking lot prior to going into the restaurant and usually go in as a group.
Auntie Mae's is a sit-down restaurant, so it does make sense to go in as a group in order to be seated as a group, but when we state the number of people in our party, we should ensure there are spare seats for any stragglers who get held up by traffic, have difficulty finding the restaurant, cannot come at 11 sharp, etc. It also wouldn't surprise me to find people waiting inside next to the hostess desk since it will be quite warm even at 11 AM.
I will be coming in a white 1994 Saturn SL2, and I am planning to be there at 11 AM promptly.
Auntie Mae's opened in 2012 and so is not in any StreetView imagery for Central near Tyler, which dates from 2011. Based on a comparison of Yelp photos (http://www.yelp.com/biz_photos/auntie-maes-cafe-wichita-2?select=s5dh1swY_XDFqdz6e5LItA) with StreetView imagery (https://maps.google.com/maps?q=Auntie+Mae%27s+Cafe,+Wichita,+KS&ie=UTF8&hq=Auntie+Mae%27s+Cafe,+Wichita,+KS&hnear=&radius=15000&ll=37.694012,-97.449067&spn=0.001068,0.002411&t=m&z=19&vpsrc=6&layer=c&cbll=37.694012,-97.449067&panoid=TN5cERQ-E8citF2o8x0Z8Q&cbp=12,173.62,,0,7.41), I think Auntie Mae's is in the building to the left of the muffler shop that is shown as having space to let. This building and the attached muffler shop are a self-contained island in the far west corner of the Westlink strip shopping center. If you come from the east on Central and find yourself crossing the bridge over the minor drainage that parallels Westlink Avenue, you have overshot.
JN,Your description of the place is dead-on.
I'll be there around 11 myself, probably finishing a virtual help desk shift with my laptop in my car. I'll be in the grey Fusion.
ICTRds aka Shawn (y'all might as well by now!)
When you see a gray '05 Neon putter in, that'll be me. If Richie's already there, he'll know. And I think I remember meeting H.B. at the Lawrence meeting I went to, so I should be able to pick out the group.
Because my sleep schedule gets so messed up by my job, I'm just going to get into the car tonight after work (hopefully about 11:30; midnight at worst) and drive to at least El Dorado and spend the night. Because it takes me a while to get unwound after work, I usually don't get to sleep before 2 or 3 and I'm concerned about being drowsy if I leave early tomorrow morning. So by the time I get to El Dorado, I should be ready to hit the hay.
Looks like we've got some car troubles.
H.B. lost his serpentine belt and has a rental. My car lost an alternator, so Gene and I will be carpooling in his vehicle.
Just in case, I'm bringing jumper cables.
I always have jumper cables in the car too, in case you need them. Well, OK, you specifically aren't the reason I carry them in the car, but rather......nevermind.
After tonight, I'll have no time to print directions, so tell me now if we need more than what's already been provided. Bear in mind that I won't be at Auntie Mae's.
I'm in Miami OK tonight, going to wake up, head over to the tri-point, finish my clinch of US 400, and then take K-254 into town. I've got a silver rental Corolla with Montana plates- I'm targeted to arrive there at 10:59 AM, but I'd guess I'll be there a few minutes earlier (probably 10:56 or so given how my itinerary has worked out thus far on the trip)- if I'm too early I'll stop and buy gas, so I should be there more or less right at 11
I'm starting to think with H.B. and Richie's issues, I should have rented. But if my bucket of bolts could get to Garden City and back two weeks ago, it can get to Wichita and back.
And if the Royals can keep this lead and make these last two innings quick work, I can leave for Wichita early (and now that I've said that, Detroit will tie it and the game will go 14 innings).
OK, here's my friend Brad. Keep your eyes out for him (probably without his son).
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F1.bp.blogspot.com%2F_ikYzFkR0_ks%2FSNBg2wQPFoI%2FAAAAAAAAAAQ%2FHs8_vucN3yA%2FS220%2FIMGA0297.JPG&hash=aebe3a06ea0068269f1bac057d0cea8d2615b57d)
I've had three bad road trip experiences this year. The "stop and pee every 45 minutes or so" day and the "I think I may pass out before we make it back to the cars" day at the Portsmouth, NH meet, and today, which is the first time I've ever had car trouble a long way from home on a trip before.
Coming up a hill on US 160 westbound not too far from US 65, the AC started acting like Joe Biden -- that is, blowing hot air. I thought, "well, either the compressor has gone out or I have a refrigerant leak." Figured I could deal with that, since my family never owned a car with air conditioning until right after I graduated from high school, my dad liked black cars and we usually went south on family vacations.
But when the battery light came on a few miles on down the road, I knew something more major was amiss. I continued on to the commuter parking lot in the northwest quadrant of the US 65/US 160 interchange and popped the hood. There were all these nice shiny pulleys turning with no belt around them, and a closer inspection saw a frayed piece of a belt down below. There had been no noise or anything when the belt went.
So I pushed the little blue OnStar button and waited. And waited. Ended up having to wait about 90 minutes in 95-degree heat for the tow truck, which hauled me in to Republic Chevrolet in Springfield. They rushed me in and I was glad to hear that it was only a belt break and not any problems with one of the pulleys freezing up. That was the good news.
The bad news was that they did not have a belt in stock and the only other parts house in town that might remotely have something that would fit was O'Reilly's, and there was no guarantee it would work. "There's a slim chance it won't, but it probably will." Famous last works. The O'Reilly belt didn't fit and there were not other belts of similar dimension, for agricultural applications or anything else, anywhere nearby that would work. The belt will come in on the GM truck at 11 a.m. (that's noon, my time) Monday. It'll only take about 45 minutes to put it on, but then I have the drive home on top of the extra missed day of work. And I absolutely have to be home Monday night/Tuesday morning to see my wife off on a trip she's taking.
So I have a rental car while mine's in the shop. After doing some checking and cyphering, I opted to cancel my reservation in Wichita for tonight and instead get a room in Joplin. I figure that's an easy enough drive in the morning, although I'm worn out from my day today. After the meet I"m not sure what I'll do, but I have an extra day to kill now so I should be able to pick up some of the roads and counties on my original routing before I get back to Springfield Sunday night and wait for the dealer to get me back on the road.
So I'll be pulling up tomorrow in a white 2013 Chevy Cruze with Mizzou plates. I may end up being a bit late because oversleeping in the morning is a distinct possibility.
I'm lucky that it was a repairable problem and not a wreck or something catastrophic, and I guess I'm also lucky that this is the first incident I've had in all the traveling I've done.
Quote from: hbelkins on July 19, 2013, 11:40:54 PM
the commuter parking lot in the northwest quadrant of the US 65/US 160 interchange
Not to detract from your story of woe (and I do sincerely feel bad for you, and hope you have some peace tonight and tomorrow), but I didn't realize until now that there was a commuter parking lot at the 65/160 interchange. Just three days ago, my family and I spent about a half hour in the commuter parking lot at the next interchange to the south (F Highway and the High Road, NE quadrant); that was in the rain, waiting to say goodbye to my sister-in-law who always has a habit of not making any effort to see us until we're literally leaving town.
Anyway, I look forward to seeing you tomorrow, and hope the remainder of your driving is free of "events".
The good news, if any, H.B., is that once you get past the 69/171/400 junction, the only thing that should slow you down is the roundabout at Fredonia (unless you choose or need to stop for a minute or two). There are several passing lanes between Parsons and Leon.
I got to El Dorado with no problem but I'm not as tired as I thought I'd be. Then again, that's kinda why I got on the road right after work. My alarm is set for 9:30.
My friend Brad will be hooking up at the 235/13th flyover project, as will I. So don't be looking for us at Auntie Mae's. JNW, I'll text you when I'm about to leave work.
Quote from: kphoger on July 20, 2013, 11:20:08 AMMy friend Brad will be hooking up at the 235/13th flyover project, as will I. So don't be looking for us at Auntie Mae's. JNW, I'll text you when I'm about to leave work.
Thanks for letting us know--I'll expect your text. I'm just about to step out the door . . .
It was great to see some of you again and meet some of you for the first time- had a great time and look forward to making more meets in the future. As I said at the meet, anything west of I-29 I'm in, anything west of I-49 there's a good chance and I'll try, and I'd like to try to make one eastern meet a year, but we'll see.
Thanks Winkler, Hoger, and Richie for putting this together! I was worried the tour might be too short but it ended up being perfect. I was able to dip down into Oklahoma afterwards to pick up some counties- in Pratt now, going to 281 and 96 it tomorrow en route to Laramie.
Likewise, it was great to put faces and voices with screen names. We sure are a dorky bunch of guys, though, aren't we? Ha! Embrace your inner nerd! :D
I find it interesting how we, as a society, have gone from "community" meaning "people who live in close proximity"–to including "people who share something in common, no matter where they live"–to including "people who know casually know each other only on the internet"–and then we, as the latter, gather again from all corners of the country to be in close proximity.
Glad I finally got to meet you, Eric.
It was fun hanging out with you tonight, Cody.
You look nothing like what I expected, Jonathan.
Again, HB, I'm sorry your trip ran into such snags along the way.
I hope Wichita treated you all well, and that you were able to snap some pictures through the rain this evening.
Peace!
-Kyle
Today was a much better day than yesterday, which went downhill even after I got settled into my motel room in Joplin because I was awakened three times with severe leg cramps.
Got up this morning and made a power run across US 400 without incident, stopping at the rest area for a comfort break.
The food was great (excellent choice of venue) and it was really good to meet a bunch of you that I had never met before, and to see some others for the first time in a couple of years. The tour was fun as well, except for the goat head burrs (I do have a picture of my shoe and sock covered in them to post in the Alanland thread when I dump my photos from my camera), but the heat and my lack of rest was starting to catch up with me by the last stop.
After we left the parking lot, I headed northeast via the turnpike. About Emporia, it started raining but the big red blobs that seemed to eat everything in sight between Emporia and Topeka on my phone's screen when checked Weather Channel radar seemed to dissipate and the rain wasn't much more than a nuisance.
Took I-470 west to I-70 east to drive the section of I-70 through Topeka that has eluded me since 1991. Driving the portion of I-70 between the two ends of I-70, coupled with my having driven I-70 through Kansas City after the Lawrence meet a couple of years ago, gave me a clinch of I-70 in Kansas. I have the entire route except that portion west of Grand Junction. Colo.
Got to my room in Lawrence and crashed for a bit, then went out and drove through Freddie's to try their burgers. Not too bad.
Tomorrow I'm going to try to backtrack and drive what I missed since I have to be back in Springfield in order to pick up my vehicle Monday. That means US 59 south to I-35 south to Emporia, then the turnpike again to Wichita, where I'm going to clinch I-235 and then go southwest into Oklahoma, following that up with a run across US 166 and back to Springfield. I've booked a room at the Best Western Route 66 Rail Haven, which should be interesting. Then after (hopefully) I get my vehicle back, I've opted for a power run across US 60 to Kentucky and then up the parkways between Paducah and Lexington. It looks to be about 45 minutes longer than I-44 and I-64 through St. Louis and Louisville, but I figure I'll lose that time in STL rush-hour traffic and construction in various spots. Plus I'll already be on the south side of Springfield when I get my car and US 60 will be lightly-traveled, with a speed limit of mostly 65 mph and four lanes most all the way.
Wish me luck that my car gets done at a reasonable hour Monday. The part will arrive about 11 a.m. CDT and it should only take about 45 minutes to put the belt on. I absolutely HAVE to be home Monday night because my wife is leaving for Iowa Tuesday morning.
Since I was the one that had the tripod and camera remote:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm4.staticflickr.com%2F3792%2F9332878410_c906c19ab6.jpg&hash=375b328d86991ed91ebac8fffba3da9f8e62b1ca) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/richiekennedy56/9332878410/)
47168 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/richiekennedy56/9332878410/) by richiekennedy56 (http://www.flickr.com/people/richiekennedy56/), on Flickr
Quote from: corco on July 20, 2013, 09:47:45 PMThanks Winkler, Hoger, and Richie for putting this together!
You're welcome!
My thanks to all of you for coming--I really enjoyed the afternoon. I'd also like to thank Richie for kicking off the planning for this meet, David Backlin (US 71) and H.B. Elkins for bringing maps and other goodies to share, and Kyle for suggesting that we park in the shade under the southbound lanes of I-135 on our last stop. I was expecting it to be a hot day, as I think we all were, but even so I was surprised by the combined effect of heat and humidity--101° (compared to a predicted 95°) when we got back to Auntie Mae's, and very humid because of the impending storm. The vending machine at the apartment complex near the John Mack Bridge was indeed a fortunate discovery.
H.B.'s experience aside, I think we did not too badly in terms of the nuisance plants in the I-235/13th Street project area. I was concerned about the burrs that feather out from a point. There were relatively few of these left when we visited today, probably because the plant that produces them has gone out of season, but when I was scoping the area back in June, dozens of them got into my shoes and pricked my feet through my socks. This time, when I got home and took off my shoes, I picked out just two of these burrs and another one shaped like a morningstar which had hopped onto a shoelace for the grand tour of Wichita. (I have been Googling off and on in an attempt to identify the plants that produce these burrs, without success.)
I send my best wishes for safe journeys home to those who travelled far to join us.
JN, Richie, Kyle: Awesome, awesome, awesome! Thanks for a great meet! HB, I hope it all works out with the car in S-field.
It was indeed a great time! It was good to meet all of you, and to put faces to names. I wish I could have stayed for the rest of the meet, but as you all know, obligations are obligations. As for the heat, it was intense... my bald head looks like a red light right now, but I still think it was worth it all. I'm glad the restaurant was a hit.
What a great pic! What a group we are. I echo Kyle's comment on what a new definition of community can be... we truly are like-minds... well, some greater than others!
And David, I saw those rabbit ears!
Until next time!
ICTRoads/Shawn
Quote from: hbelkins on July 21, 2013, 12:33:15 AM
Plus I'll already be on the south side of Springfield when I get my car and US 60 will be lightly-traveled, with a speed limit of mostly 65 mph and four lanes most all the way.
Well, although I did once drive US-60 all the way from Springfield to Charleston with needle almost always above 80 mph (87 most of the way, in fact, and that was before it was all four lanes)–I can't say I would recommend that sort of behavior.
Any chance you could get a pic of APL signage at the 60/65 interchange and post it on one of the threads dealing with APL signs?
Enjoy the drive. If you haven't taken 60 across Missouri, it has quite varied scenery, and is enjoyable for that reason. Even the flatness of the eastern end is enjoyable in its own way.
Quote from: kphoger on July 21, 2013, 10:09:08 PM
Any chance you could get a pic of APL signage at the 60/65 interchange and post it on one of the threads dealing with APL signs?
Enjoy the drive. If you haven't taken 60 across Missouri, it has quite varied scenery, and is enjoyable for that reason. Even the flatness of the eastern end is enjoyable in its own way.
I will try to get a photo tomorrow. I drove US 60 from the Illinois state line all the way to US 71 back in 2001, and later finished it out for a clinch in Missouri about 5 or 6 years ago. I drove it westbound all the way to US 63 on the way out. The four-laning has really made it a nice, easy drive now.
Made it to Springfield today. Got up and drove US 59 south from Lawrence, then I-35 back to Wichita. Got a clinch of I-235 and then headed west on K-42 to do the route I planned to take to Wichita on Friday, in reverse.
West of US 160, online maps and my GPS identify K-2 as K-14. I had planned my route to use K-14 but figured out pretty quickly that the route is signed as K-2. Was it ever K-14?
Some fugly US 281 signs just north of the OK state line, and the pavement quality deteriorates badly crossing into Oklahoma.
It was an easy drive east along US 64, OK 11 and US 81 back to South Haven, Kansas, and then I got a quick clinch of US 177 in Kansas and then headed east on US 166.
Got a break from a really nice sheriff's deputy. I was following a SUV that was doing 65 in a 65 zone and I wanted to go a little faster. So I pulled out to pass and saw the "sheriff" markings on the side of the vehicle. I knew I was screwed and sure enough, the lights were on before I even cut back in front of him. He asked me for my license, I handed him the rental agreement and the insurance card out of the glove box, and he told me that if everything checked out, he'd just give me a warning. He was very good-natured about the whole thing. I didn't notice any markings on the back of the vehicle and didn't notice any kind of official license plate like a Kentucky vehicle would have. When he came back to the car, he laughed and said I wasn't an axe murderer or anything and gave me my documents back. He then said he had called Enterprise and chewed them out because the insurance car had expired. He told them that he could arrest their customer (me) if he wanted to but he wasn't going to do that. He then asked me what part of Kentucky I was from. I told him the eastern part and asked if he was familiar with Kentucky. Turns out he had once lived in Winchester, which is an hour from me and where I also lived for six years. So I was on my way with the first really lucky break of the weekend.
I don't know if he was running radar or not. I brought my V-1 with me so it wouldn't get pilfered, but left the mount and the power cord in my vehicle in Springfield.
Missed out on a "one-sitting" clinch of US 166 because the road is closed between US 59 and US 69. Thankfully I had driven that section a few years ago so I have a clinch of US 166 even though I didn't get it all at one time. Had to detour north on US 59 to US 160, but I opted to go straight on 160 instead of following the marked detour for 166. I decided not to try to follow 160 into Missouri to get a couple of counties, but instead punched my motel into my GPS and let it guide me. It took me straight across US 400/Alt. US 69 onto old K-96, which becomes Mo. YY at the state line and a few miles later, intersects Mo. Z. Yes, I got a pic of the YY-Z assembly and hummed Rush instrumentals the rest of the way to Springfield.
On the fly, I figured out a routing that would get me into Stone County, the county I was heading for but missed when my belt broke on Friday.
I'm at the Best Western Route 66 Rail Haven motel tonight, which is a piece of US 66 history and is located on one of the historic alignments. There's a photo in the lobby that shows cutouts for US 60 with a "City Route" banner and US 66. Elvis stayed here in the 50s.
Those of you who pray, please pray that the serpentine belt is on the GM parts truck tomorrow and they get it installed and get me on my way at a reasonable hour. I have a feeling the US 60 route back to Kentucky will be a lot less stressful than I-44 and going through St. Louis at rush hour. If all's well, I'll hit Paducah about 6 p.m. EDT, Elizabethtown around 8:30, and Lexington around 10. The drive home from there will be a breeze unless I hit a deer.
I made it back home tonight after driving 535 miles total yesterday, and 807 miles today. I drove to Garden City yesterday after the road meet (through some rain east of Kinsley that was so hard that I pulled off onto the shoulder for a few minutes to let it pass), then today I drove all over west Kansas and the Texas Panhandle, collecting 10 new counties (7 in Kansas, 3 in Texas) on my way back home.
It was great to meet those who I had not met before and to reconnect with those who I had previously met at other road meets.
Quote from: hbelkins on July 21, 2013, 10:43:00 PMWest of US 160, online maps and my GPS identify K-2 as K-14. I had planned my route to use K-14 but figured out pretty quickly that the route is signed as K-2. Was it ever K-14?
I am not aware that it has ever been. My earliest memory is of K-2 as the route from Wichita to US 281 at the Oklahoma state line via Harper, Anthony, and Kiowa (birthplace of Auntie Mae!). However, about a decade ago the route was pruned back at the north end to the K-42 junction near Norwich. Previously it had followed K-42's current routing to both routes' terminus at US 54 (Edwards Ave./Southwest Blvd. interchange). This pruning removed what used to be called a "useless multiplex" in MTR days, and it is the reason K-42 shields are still misaligned on I-235 interchange sequence signs in Wichita. There is still an interchange sequence sign on I-235 northbound, I think just past the MacArthur interchange, which has a now-erroneous K-2 shield.
Since then K-42 itself has been pruned within the I-235 loop; this is why the advance guide and exit direction signs for Meridian/Edwards have empty greenspace at the top with vaguely sunflower-shaped imprints.
K-14 uselessly overlapped K-2 from Harper to Oklahoma until the mid-1990s.
Quote from: NE2 on July 21, 2013, 11:30:19 PMK-14 uselessly overlapped K-2 from Harper to Oklahoma until the mid-1990s.
Thanks for this--I checked and it seems both of the K-2 overlaps (K-14 south of Harper and K-42 to Wichita) disappeared between the 1993-94 and 1995-96 editions of the official state transportation map. A check of the rural resolutions website suggests these changes were made, possibly through the same instrument, with a signature date of 1994-12-21, but I can't confirm right now because the relevant documents are not loading for me.
Sources conflict as to when K-42 was dropped along Southwest Blvd. within the I-235 loop. It is shown on the 1997-1998 state map, but not the 1999-2000 one. The only resolution the rural resolutions website lists for K-42 in Sedgwick County has a signature date of 1994-12-21, which suggests K-42 was pruned at the same time the useless overlaps of K-2 were removed, but I remember K-42 continued to be signed at the Meridian/Edwards exit for a time after the K-2 shields were removed.
Can anyone link to scans of maps showing when K-96 was signed, and the numbering schemes pre-US 400?
Quote from: hbelkins on July 22, 2013, 12:24:19 AMCan anyone link to scans of maps showing when K-96 was signed, and the numbering schemes pre-US 400?
KDOT's past editions of the official state transportation map:
http://www.ksdot.org/burtransplan/maps/historicstatemaps.asp
KDOT's rural resolutions website (rural resolutions are how the KDOT secretary executes his or her power under Kansas law to designate or vacate state highways):
http://kdotapp2.ksdot.org/RuralResolutions/RuralResolutions.aspx
KDOT's site is currently down.
I had fun yesterday and then the *real* fun began.
I mentioned that on my way out I had seen some funky K-58 signs on the detour between Iola and Yates Center. One had a strange font for the "58" and one at Yates Center had a small 58 in a 3dk shield. Nothing else unusual about the trip out, though.
After I left the meet Saturday, I headed out to meet my friend in Ponca City, OK. I headed south on Tyler to MacArthur, then went east to Broadway and continued south on U.S. 81, getting some gas in Wellington and looping around a little downtown. There's a new roundabout where U.S. 81 southbound (A St.) meets U.S. 160 as it comes in from the east. One of the roads going into the roundabout is one way northbound coming from the south.
At South Haven, I joined U.S. 177 for the first time ever. The quality of the pavement declined abruptly at the state line but it wasn't nearly as bad as I'd see later on.
Going under I-35, I noted the difference in how Oklahoma signs a junction at an interstate as compared to Kansas. I continued through the small town of Braman and went on into Blackwell. I was planning to turn east on OK-11 but decided to see what the downtown looked like and I was glad I did. Three of the downtown intersections have a traffic signal set up I've never seen before.
(https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn2/1074348_10153063691840331_858007043_o.jpg)
So then back to OK-11 and on to U.S. 77 at Kildare. Then south to Ponca City where I met my friend. We ate dinner, then took an extensive tour of the area. Saw Ponca Lake and then we went up to Newkirk where he works. It doesn't look like much coming in from the south but then after a couple of turns you get a better idea of what the town is like. Coincidentally, Newkirk has recently absorbed the Braman district and was building a new high school. It's supposed to open in a month but doesn't have a parking lot (not even grading) and doesn't have a gym, which means the volleyball team and basketball teams will have to continue playing at the civic center downtown. They can't use the old high school because it's on the verge of being condemned. Last winter, snow would get into the building through all sorts of cracks.
After leaving, I had a hell of a time. The thunderstorms that came through Kay County and Cowley County, Kansas, were quite severe even though there weren't any warnings issued. The rain was coming down hard enough to make it difficult to see the lines on the road (although for the most part, this part of U.S. 77 in Oklahoma was quite awful). Lightning was coming down at an alarming rate and the winds were gusting up to 60 MPH. I decided that I didn't need to keep driving since any way I went from either Arkansas City or Winfield would probably involve a 60-plus mile trip before the next opportunity to stop for the night.
Sunday morning I loaded my stuff into my car and was greeted by this:
(https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/q84/s720x720/1075692_10153061276920331_1829870765_n.jpg)
That's water on the floorboard of the passenger side of the back of the Neon. I've had this happen once before but it happened on the driver's side. There are gaps just wide enough that if the car is standing still, the wind is blowing just right and it's raining hard enough, this will happen. However, the vacuum at the car wash took care of the problem.
I left Winfield via K-360, then headed west on U.S. 160. At Cambridge, I came across this:
(https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/1071608_10153063481420331_678960907_o.jpg)
A mixed-case city limit sign on a non-interstate highway in Kansas. A first for me. (The one on the east side of the city has not been replaced and so remains all caps.)
I continued on 160 to U.S. 75, headed south to "58 Road," which leads to Independence Community College, then south on 10th Street (as its known in Independence) down to U.S. 166. After having a bad meal at Taco Mayo, I went through the new 166/169 interchange, then headed east on 166. I took brief looks at a few small towns and dove down for a look at Chetopa before doubling back because of 166 being closed east of there. I went back up to Oswego, discovered a nice city park by the Neosho River, then went east to Columbus.
The first sign on the east side of the 69-160 & K-7 junction is new with mixed case but still lists Carthage as a destination (32 miles) even though there's no official state designation of any sort anymore for former K-96 between Crestline and the Missouri state line.
I ducked down and looked at several small towns along the way. I think I may have found an alignment of U.S. 160 that went through Elk City at one point. I didn't know if it ever has officially so I might have to investigate that. Also, since this was just the second or third time I've been on 160 between Winfield and Independence, I'd forgotten how scenic it is between K-99 and Elk City.
And that's all I got.
Quote from: hbelkins on July 21, 2013, 12:33:15 AMI have the entire route except that portion west of Grand Junction. Colo.
you're missing a segment (San Rafael Swell) which I think even outdoes the Glenwood Canyon section in terms of scenic value. well recommended.
Quote from: NE2 on July 22, 2013, 12:51:22 AMKDOT's site is currently down.
It has now come back up. A quick inspection of multiple resolutions dated 1994-12-21 shows that a large number (probably nearly all) useless overlaps were removed on that date, through multiple instruments (K-14 overlapping mileage in Barber and Harper counties handled by one instrument, K-2 overlapping mileage in Sedgwick and Sumner counties handled by another).
The one dealing with K-2 and K-42 in Sedgwick County is actually quite unclear as to what was to be done with the existing eastern terminus of K-42 in Sedgwick County. It can be found here:
http://idmweb.ksdot.org/publiclib/publicdoc.asp?ID=003710819:1
The existing condition, before approval of this instrument, was that K-2 and K-42 overlapped on Southwest Boulevard all the way to the US 54 interchange. The instrument hints that its sole purpose is to remove the useless K-2 overlap (". . . with the provision that the existing road shall remain on the State Highway System designated solely as K-42"), but it also contains language that references the "western city limits of Wichita," which on the K-42/Southwest Boulevard corridor are at the I-235 interchange.
The instrument, in fact, is so unclear and so badly worded that I think the K-2 signs were taken down right away but it was not realized until much later (perhaps as much as a year or two later) that the intent was also to move the K-42 terminus out to the Wichita city limits.
Quote from: okroads on July 21, 2013, 11:15:25 PM
(through some rain east of Kinsley that was so hard that I pulled off onto the shoulder for a few minutes to let it pass)
That doesn't sound like you...
Quote from: apeman33 on July 22, 2013, 01:38:09 AM
I had fun yesterday and then the *real* fun began.
I mentioned that on my way out I had seen some funky K-58 signs on the detour between Iola and Yates Center. One had a strange font for the "58" and one at Yates Center had a small 58 in a 3dk shield. Nothing else unusual about the trip out, though.
After I left the meet Saturday, I headed out to meet my friend in Ponca City, OK. I headed south on Tyler to MacArthur, then went east to Broadway and continued south on U.S. 81, getting some gas in Wellington and looping around a little downtown. There's a new roundabout where U.S. 81 southbound (A St.) meets U.S. 160 as it comes in from the east. One of the roads going into the roundabout is one way northbound coming from the south.
At South Haven, I joined U.S. 177 for the first time ever. The quality of the pavement declined abruptly at the state line but it wasn't nearly as bad as I'd see later on.
Going under I-35, I noted the difference in how Oklahoma signs a junction at an interstate as compared to Kansas. I continued through the small town of Braman and went on into Blackwell. I was planning to turn east on OK-11 but decided to see what the downtown looked like and I was glad I did. Three of the downtown intersections have a traffic signal set up I've never seen before.
(https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn2/1074348_10153063691840331_858007043_o.jpg)
So then back to OK-11 and on to U.S. 77 at Kildare. Then south to Ponca City where I met my friend. We ate dinner, then took an extensive tour of the area. Saw Ponca Lake and then we went up to Newkirk where he works. It doesn't look like much coming in from the south but then after a couple of turns you get a better idea of what the town is like. Coincidentally, Newkirk has recently absorbed the Braman district and was building a new high school. It's supposed to open in a month but doesn't have a parking lot (not even grading) and doesn't have a gym, which means the volleyball team and basketball teams will have to continue playing at the civic center downtown. They can't use the old high school because it's on the verge of being condemned. Last winter, snow would get into the building through all sorts of cracks.
After leaving, I had a hell of a time. The thunderstorms that came through Kay County and Cowley County, Kansas, were quite severe even though there weren't any warnings issued. The rain was coming down hard enough to make it difficult to see the lines on the road (although for the most part, this part of U.S. 77 in Oklahoma was quite awful). Lightning was coming down at an alarming rate and the winds were gusting up to 60 MPH. I decided that I didn't need to keep driving since any way I went from either Arkansas City or Winfield would probably involve a 60-plus mile trip before the next opportunity to stop for the night.
This morning I got loaded my stuff into my car and was greeted by this:
(https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/q84/s720x720/1075692_10153061276920331_1829870765_n.jpg)
That's water on the floorboard of the passenger side of the back of the Neon. I've had this happen once before but it happened on the driver's side. There are gaps just wide enough that if the car is standing still, the wind is blowing just right and it's raining hard enough, this will happen. However, the vacuum at the car wash took care of the problem.
I left Winfield via K-360, then headed west on U.S. 160. At Cambridge, I came across this:
(https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/1071608_10153063481420331_678960907_o.jpg)
A mixed-case city limit sign on a non-interstate highway in Kansas. A first for me. (The one on the east side of the city has not been replaced and so remains all caps.)
I continued on 160 to U.S. 75, headed south to "58 Road," which leads to Independence Community College, then south on 10th Street (as its known in Independence) down to U.S. 166. After having a bad meal at Taco Mayo, I went through the new 166/169 interchange, then headed east on 166. I took brief looks at a few small towns and dove down for a look at Chetopa before doubling back because of 166 being closed east of there. I went back up to Oswego, discovered a nice city park by the Neosho River, then went east to Columbus.
The first sign on the east side of the 69-160 & K-7 junction is new with mixed case but still lists Carthage as a destination (32 miles) even though there's no official state designation of any sort anymore for former K-96 between Crestline and the Missouri state line.
I ducked down and looked at several small towns along the way. I think I may have found an alignment of U.S. 160 that went through Elk City at one point. I didn't know if it ever has officially so I might have to investigate that. Also, since this was just the second or third time I've been on 160 between Winfield and Independence, I'd forgotten how scenic it is between K-99 and Elk City.
And that's all I got.
That's one hell of a trip! BTW, where was this old alignment of 160 at Elk City? I drove 160 so often for a while I fleshed out a lot of its route history. Maybe I can confirm it for ya.
ICTRds
^^
The traffic signal setup is unusual since it is not MUTCD compliant. MUTCD calls for a 8' minimum separation for signals performing the same function.
Quote from: WichitaRoads on July 22, 2013, 04:46:58 PM
Quote from: apeman33 on July 22, 2013, 01:38:09 AM
<my stuff snipped for brevity>
That's one hell of a trip! BTW, where was this old alignment of 160 at Elk City? I drove 160 so often for a while I fleshed out a lot of its route history. Maybe I can confirm it for ya.
ICTRds
As it appeared to me, the main north-south street, Montgomery Ave., appeared to be it. I only went south though, but the way it curved at the south city limits made me think it could have been. But I've had an opportunity to look at maps since then and the problem with this thought is that Montgomery -- or any other city street -- doesn't exit out of town to the north. And the way other roads leave the town don't make sense for a former 160 alignment unless 160 jogged east at Hickory Street to get back to its current alignment. So I'm thinking now that my assumption was incorrect.
Was 4th St. in Longton ever a part of 160? I drove that as well.
Montgomery used to exit to the north; this can be seen on aerials.
In 1936, US 160 entered Elk City from the east on Hickory and turned north on Montgomery. It doesn't seem to have used Montgomery south of Hickory.
http://www.ksdot.org/burtransplan/maps/PastPublishedCounty.asp (Montgomery County)
Quote from: apeman33 on July 22, 2013, 06:39:15 PM
Quote from: WichitaRoads on July 22, 2013, 04:46:58 PM
Quote from: apeman33 on July 22, 2013, 01:38:09 AM
<my stuff snipped for brevity>
That's one hell of a trip! BTW, where was this old alignment of 160 at Elk City? I drove 160 so often for a while I fleshed out a lot of its route history. Maybe I can confirm it for ya.
ICTRds
As it appeared to me, the main north-south street, Montgomery Ave., appeared to be it. I only went south though, but the way it curved at the south city limits made me think it could have been. But I've had an opportunity to look at maps since then and the problem with this thought is that Montgomery -- or any other city street -- doesn't exit out of town to the north. And the way other roads leave the town don't make sense for a former 160 alignment unless 160 jogged east at Hickory Street to get back to its current alignment. So I'm thinking now that my assumption was incorrect.
Was 4th St. in Longton ever a part of 160? I drove that as well.
NE2 kinda beat me to it on Elk City. Perhaps the southern portion of Montgomery St and the curve was part of an older alignment (pre-1936) of 160, as the road the shoots east does meet up with the old 160/K-38 alignment, prior to Elk City Lake. North of town, you can see in ariel view the cuts and old openings of the road as it used to go out of town, now obliterated by a dike. It went north to what is now 5600 Rd, then went west, curving and stair-stepping to the current alignment just beyond the county line.
As for Longton, it came in on Fourth Street, then turned south on Kansas, and then west on Sixth. From there, the road (now 183, or Explorer Rd), went west until a curve to the south. From there, it stair-stepped, on to 9 Rd, then on to 141 Rd. It proceeded west until just south of Elk Falls, where it turned north on to 7th St in Elk Falls. From there, it went to Montgomery Street, turned west, and then out of town, stair-stepping again until hitting the current alignment.
A lot of Montgomery Streets in there, eh?
ICTRds
Home at last, home at last, thank God Almighty, I'm home at last!
Yesterday turned out a lot better than I expected. I slept in a bit, got everything organized in my rental to make sure that the transition back to my vehicle was quick and easy, then headed over to the Chevy garage, arriving there about 10:30 local time. I had been told the belt wouldn't be there until 11, so I had my iPad and figured I'd do some surfing while I waited. When I checked in at the service desk, they told me, "We've got your paperwork ready, let me get your keys." The belt had come earlier than expected and the work was already done!
I had some issues with my 12v adapters. I don't know if they have blown fuses in the plugs or what, but I couldn't get them to power on to fuel all my electronics. I finally found a splitter that worked, and was able to power my GPS (to see how long it would take me to get home and give me a time to beat; I already knew the route), my iPad (to log the trip with Every Trail) and my V-1 radar detector (so I could get home even faster.) I had batteries so I didn't worry about my camera.
I did get a photo of the arrow-per-lane signs on US 60 eastbound at US 65. Made four stops along the way -- food and restroom somewhere along US 60 east of US 63, gas and restroom at the Flying J at Charleston, restroom and a snack at the WK Parkway service area near Beaver Dam, and gas and restroom at the Speedway in Versailles at the end of the BG Parkway.
Had no weather issues, and only one gnarly construction slowdown (milling and paving on I-24 at Paducah.) Got photos of all the new signage along I-69.
I averaged about 75 mph along US 60 and 80 mph on the Kentucky parkways, except for the construction zones where I slowed down.
The new interchange at the WK Parkway and the Ring Road extension west of Elizabethtown should be open very soon. Looks like final paving has been done on the ramps and the signposts are in place for the exit signage. There is also a major pavement rehab taking place on the BG Parkway along its run through Washington County, and this is badly needed as that road has been rough for 35 years.
My goal was to be off the BG Parkway by dark to minimize my chances of hitting a deer a long way away from home, and I realized that goal. It had just gotten dark (helped along by some cloud cover) when I reached the mess that is the US 60 pavement rehab project between Versailles and Lexington, but the lateness of the hour meant traffic was at a minimum. A full moon emerged from behind the clouds east of Lexington, and there were no issues on my way home. I arrived around 11 p.m. EDT.
The GPS wanted me to take I-44 out of Springfield and it took awhile for it to realize I wasn't going to go that way before it put me on US 60. Interestingly enough, it wanted me to continue on I-57 past Charleston and go to Mt. Vernon and take I-64, but as soon as I got off to follow US 60, it routed me along 60 into Kentucky and chopped about a half-hour from the trip. I don't have it set to prefer interstates, so sometimes I marvel at the "logic" that goes into its routing decisions.
I'm looking forward to going through my photos of the trip. I actually enjoyed my forays into rural Kansas and Oklahoma. Those areas of the country are only boring if you're on the interstate (except the Kansas Turnpike between Emporia and Wichita, which I found to be really interesting).
Quote from: J N Winkler on July 22, 2013, 12:19:20 AM
Sources conflict as to when K-42 was dropped along Southwest Blvd. within the I-235 loop. It is shown on the 1997-1998 state map, but not the 1999-2000 one. The only resolution the rural resolutions website lists for K-42 in Sedgwick County has a signature date of 1994-12-21, which suggests K-42 was pruned at the same time the useless overlaps of K-2 were removed, but I remember K-42 continued to be signed at the Meridian/Edwards exit for a time after the K-2 shields were removed.
I read the 1994 resolution as dealing with Rural mileage only, and the City Connecting link segment of K-42 was handled with a amended CCL resolution.
Likewise, since Southwest Blvd. inside I-235 is within the Wichita city limits, the removal of the K-42 designation would have been made via a CCL resolution
Quote from: route56 on July 23, 2013, 12:38:29 PMI read the 1994 resolution as dealing with Rural mileage only, and the City Connecting link segment of K-42 was handled with a amended CCL resolution.
Likewise, since Southwest Blvd. inside I-235 is within the Wichita city limits, the removal of the K-42 designation would have been made via a CCL resolution
This makes sense. Unfortunately, the CCL agreements on the KDOT website (at least in the case of Wichita) only describe the current condition and normally don't say when CCL mileage was added to or removed from a given state route.
Interesting, the whole 160 thing in Elk City was the opposite of what I had suspected, unless that southern curve is part of an older alignment than the maps show.
And when I look at old maps like that and see how many turns a road like U.S. 160 took, I'm amazed. I suppose if I looked the the Elk and Cowley county maps and counted all those 90-degree turns and crazy curves, I'd end up thinking it must have taken 6 or 7 hours to get from Winfield to Independence in the mid 30s.
Quote from: kphoger on July 22, 2013, 12:36:42 PM
Quote from: okroads on July 21, 2013, 11:15:25 PM
(through some rain east of Kinsley that was so hard that I pulled off onto the shoulder for a few minutes to let it pass)
That doesn't sound like you...
LOL...only other time I had ever done that was in August 2003; I was on I-64 in eastern Kentucky, and the skies opened up so much I exited off at KY 67 (Industial Parkway) and let the storm pass.