Historic Thomas Brothers Maps (56k warning)

[Interstate Trav]

Yeah wasn't the 23 supposed to continue north of the 118 and the 118 was supposed to be a freeway west of the 23?

[Quillz]

Well, the 23 does still continue north of the 188 to the 126 at Fillmore. Unless you mean it was supposed to continue north as a freeway. I really don't see how that would have been even possible geographically because it would have had to be routed over the mountains, and CA-23 between CA-118 and CA-126 is hardly busy enough to warrant a full freeway.

I could see CA-118 continuing westward to CA-126 as a freeway, though. Currently, LA Ave. gets very busy when US-101 is being hit hard with traffic.

[DTComposer]

I've been trying to figure out why Santa Clarita did not want to retain the ROW to build out CA-126 as freeway between I-5 and CA-14. I see why they didn't do it in the '70s, but now there's 200,000 people in the area, and it can easily grow to twice that.

Their answer was the Cross Valley Connector, which is just a 6-lane street going through a bunch of subdivisions and shopping malls, so I imagine it's going to be chronically congested in 10 to 15 years if not sooner.

I'm the last person to advocate freeways that aren't warranted by traffic or development, but this seemed like a mistake to cancel. Anyone have any insight?

[Bigmikelakers]

I forgot I had a 68 Ventura Thomas Guide. I also never knew that the 118 was proposed to head south into Oxnard to meet up with the Pacific Coast Freeway.

[Bigmikelakers]

I've been trying to figure out why Santa Clarita did not want to retain the ROW to build out CA-126 as freeway between I-5 and CA-14. I see why they didn't do it in the '70s, but now there's 200,000 people in the area, and it can easily grow to twice that.

Their answer was the Cross Valley Connector, which is just a 6-lane street going through a bunch of subdivisions and shopping malls, so I imagine it's going to be chronically congested in 10 to 15 years if not sooner.

I'm the last person to advocate freeways that aren't warranted by traffic or development, but this seemed like a mistake to cancel. Anyone have any insight?

Is the Cross Valley Connector Newhall Ranch Rd/Golden Valley Rd? If so, I'm sure the speed limit is 50mph plus on that road so I guess there really doesnt need to be a freeway built. You also have to take in account the anti freeway people in California as well.

[DTComposer]

Is the Cross Valley Connector Newhall Ranch Rd/Golden Valley Rd? If so, I'm sure the speed limit is 50mph plus on that road so I guess there really doesnt need to be a freeway built. You also have to take in account the anti freeway people in California as well.

Yes, that's it. But even if the speed limit is 50, I don't think there's more than 2 or 3 miles of the 9-plus miles that you could maintain 50. And the major intersections all have large retail centers, which usually make those intersections very congested. I'll have to drive it next time I'm up there.

And yes, I suppose it got killed in the '70s in the middle of the anti-freeway movement, but while I think most of the proposed-but-not-built freeways would have been overkill, this is one of a handful that I think should have at least kept the ROW available for future consideration.

[SimMoonXP]

Very cool map of 1968 Ventura County two pages. I would like to see the Title page (1st page), and key map of Ventura County. Thank you.

[Bigmikelakers]

[Interstate Trav]

Image: Thomas Bros. Map - Ventura County Poplar Street Atlas (cover)
Image: Thomas Bros. Map - Ventura County Poplar Street Atlas (page index)

Can you post the pages of the 23/118 jct?


Mod Note: Removed quoted images. Please avoid quoting large images, especially if not referring to them in your reply. Thanks!  --roadfro

[Bigmikelakers]

[Quillz]

It seems if CA-118 was built as a freeway between Oxnard and Moorpark as intended, it would have replaced any need for the current CA-232, as well as extension proposals for CA-34 and CA-259.

I have always wondered why CA-118 didn't simply meet US-101 at what is today CA-232 rather than travel northeast to CA-126 as it currently does, but given those routes are all close together, I guess it doesn't matter too much.

[SimMoonXP]

That mapbook is looks like "1967" edition Ventura County for sure. I noticed the only different between 1967 and 1968 edition limited color is the color shades change. I only notice one different from your book is Route 33 freeway at north freeway as extended to Foster Park in 1968 edition Union folded map by thomas bros map for Ventura County. However it doesn't show the proposed 101 freeway in west side of Ventura River bridge.  Page 35 and 47 is wondering how does US-101 proposed freeway looks like. Page 36 is wondering about Route 33 freeway as how far go north as Foster Park or more south than that. Page 91 and 92 is never heard that pages numbers before in Ventura County mapbook. It is possible for you scan pages of 35, 36, 47, 91, and 92? Thank you again.

[Roadmapfan66]

Can you get a scan of the proposed extension of CA 126 Santa Paula Freeway too on pages 40, 41, 30, 31 and 32 please as well as the Conejo Creek Freeway (never got built) pages 42 and 46 for a scan.  Cities Santa Paula page 40 and Fillmore page 41.  It is too bad that the city of Santa Clarita did not want the Santa Paula Freeway to go through their city!  I once lived in Newhall from 1969 to 1978, and Canyon Country/Solemint/Solamint (spelling error on Thomas Bros.) from 1966 to 1969.    

Scott Presnal
Morro Bay, CA

[Bigmikelakers]

[SimMoonXP]

Ventura Page 35 looks interesting because on Punta Gorda inset for US-101 freeway never happened, but it is still in expressway status. I am not sure if building a new freeway nearby that place for HOV project.

Ventura Page 36 looks very same but added block numbers on Route 33 Freeway on my 1968 Ventura folded map at Row #3 for your 1967 edition page #36.

Ventura Page 47 looks very interesting because it where the US-101 freeway end just west of Main Street.

Ventura Page 91 and 92 is really cool one as it does show US-399 and US-99 on both map pages. It not show CA-33 and I-5 yet.

The proposed freeway section by Roadmapfan66 pages looks good!

Thank you for showing those images!

May I can see the scanned images of: 1974 Los Angeles and Orange Counties Table of Contents page, 1968 Riverside Page 48, 122-125, 725. Thanks again for those images in Ventura County

[Roadmapfan66]

Can you post the proposed and under construction sections of the "then" Simi Valley - San Frernando Valley Freeway, California state route 118, from Balboa Blvd. and Interstate 210, the Foothill Freeway, the years of 1973, 1974, 1975, 1976, 1977 etc.   Including the two interchanges at Interstate 5, Golden State Freeway and Interstate 405, San Diego Freeway in the northern San Fernando Valley, SimMoonXP? 
Post Merge: December 31, 1969, 06:59:59 PM
Scott C. Presnal
Morro Bay, CA
Post Merge: May 15, 2011, 09:54:57 PM
Because none of the later editions of H.M. Goshua Maps or Rand McNally maps show the year 1976 in the corresponding San Fernando Valley street maps, for Shell,Texaco or Chevron (HMG) and Mobil, and Union 76 (RMN) showed this segment of CA 118 now as the Ronald Reagan Freeway Under Construction.   --- SCP

And off course I get my old Road and Street maps from www.20centurymapscom and my next purchase is this coming Monday,

May 23, 2011 at 4pm!
Scott C. Presnal
Morro Bay, CA

[rickmastfan67]

Roadmapfan66, please use the "MODIFY" button if you have additional info you want to add to a post instead of creating a new one a few minutes after the last one (unless somebody replied to your previous post of course).  Thank you.

[Roadmapfan66]

Thank you, but do you have a post 1976 section of the "then" Simi Valley-San Fernando Valley Freeway, "now" Ronald Reagan Freeway like 1978 or 1980. 1982, etc.  for example of the same requested area.  By the way on Sepulveda Blvd. near that freeway is a BBQ Restaurant, called the "The Bear Pit" opened much way before this freeway opened to traffic in the NW corner of Sepulveda Blvd. and CA 118, the Ronald Reagan Freeway. 

SCP

Scott C. Presnal
Morro Bay, CA

[Bigmikelakers]

[SimMoonXP]

Bigmikelakers,

Thanks for those maps. Beaumont page looks interesting cuz 14th street proposed were not in 1969 edition. Very cool. Palm Spring pages are cool as I can see the old US 60 and US 99 on that page, Palm Drive was brand new road in my 1969 edition, But your mapbook was proposed during that time. On page 725 is interesting one as I can see California route 177, old names before Ramona Expressway, old US 60 route.

It is possible of you can scan pages 20, 32, 74-77, 98-101 for Riverside County section only. Thank you again! I have been enjoying seeing your old 1968 mapbook so far!

[Quillz]

I knew about Sepulveda Blvd. extending further north than it does today, but back then, where did it terminate? At Roxford, as the northern portion does today?

Also, do these old guides show the proposed northern extension of the CA-33 freeway? I know it was once planned to extend farther north, although I don't know how much farther.

[Bigmikelakers]

[Desert Man]

Hello, I just joined the site, after I came upon the topic on Thomas Bros. maps. We look at how roads are constructed and the suburban sprawl it generates in the communities shown in the last 60 years of record.

Bigmikelakers, can you find I-10 and state Hwy. 111 in the Palm Springs area (from Banning to Coachella) on your Riverside county guides and post 'em for show please? I happen to live there for 30-31 years now and I seen the area grew and change, but let's see how the "desert" looked way before I was born.

[Bigmikelakers]

Hello, I just joined the site, after I came upon the topic on Thomas Bros. maps. We look at how roads are constructed and the suburban sprawl it generates in the communities shown in the last 60 years of record.

Bigmikelakers, can you find I-10 and state Hwy. 111 in the Palm Springs area (from Banning to Coachella) on your Riverside county guides and post 'em for show please? I happen to live there for 30-31 years now and I seen the area grew and change, but let's see how the "desert" looked way before I was born.

I think we posted most of that area. Try looking through the previous pages of the thread. If not, I have no problem posting up what you want to see.

[SimMoonXP]

Mike D boy's page requests are:
Riverside County Pages: 54-57 Quad, 58-61 Quad, 114-117 Quad, 126-129 Quad, 134, 135, 137, 138-141 Quad. Count of scan would be 8 (Eight). I use my 1969 (dark blue edition) Riverside mapbook to assist you for page number for Mike D boy's request.