Pointless routes

[Brandon]

The fact that US highways in Alabama are duplexed with state highways for their entireties...

That's an old way of doing things.  Georgia is that way, IIRC, and many other states were like that in the past, including Illinois.

[texaskdog]

US 400.  US-8 (WI-29 would be a much better US-8).  Those stupid short US routes in the NE.  US-57. 

[apeman33]

<rant>
Kansas has 2D state routes that are just spurs to serve small towns less than a mile off the road and end at the city limit. Those could be turned back over the county or should be renumbered with a 3-digit number (examples, K-89 is 1.5 miles; there's also K-22, K-30, K-41, K-43, K-46, K-67*, K-71, K-74, K-76, K-78, K-79, K-80, K-84, K-85, K-86, K-87** and K-88). A lot of these are less than a mile long. I'd only keep the ones longer than one mile and assign them new 3-dK numbers.

* - Does K-67 even serve a town?
** - Even though it's 9 miles, it should still be 3 digits.

K-60 doesn't fit the "spur to a city limit" issue I have with the other highways above but it's odd to me in that it's a 4-mile link between two other highways. This ought to be a 3-dK, too. K-64, considering the purpose it serves, should also have three digits.
</rant>

Ending at or going through state parks is something I can handle and why K-95 doesn't bug me so much.

Former K-38 was meant to have a point but never did. It ended at a county line and it's surprising it was commissioned as long as it was. The only sign on it that I saw was one that said "K-38 ENDS 13," meaning essentially that it's own end was its "control city."

A lot of K-57's former routing was pointless at one time. From it's south junction with U.S. 59 up to Colony, it was duplexed with another highway the entire way. That was also the case a lot from K-99 south of Emporia to K-4. Truncating it was a good thing.

I also never understood swapping the majority of K-13's routing with K-177 and it bugs me that K-177 and K-181 are both much longer routes than all those pointless 2-dKs.

U.S. 400, OTOH, isn't pointless for most of its route. It's just a dumb number and it serves no purpose west of Garden City (really west of Dodge City to be honest) other than force Colorado to sign a route it has no use for, I'm sure. It should be an X50 or X54. If the "ending in 0" thing is so damn important, it could have been U.S. 450.

[Chicagosuburban]

IL-7 is pointless. It switches roads too much and doesn't have a real corridor.

[hobsini2]

IL-7 is pointless. It switches roads too much and doesn't have a real corridor.

At one time, IL 7 was not so pointless.  Years ago before the great Chicago purge, a webpage that Rich Carlson has so neatly put together, IL 7 did actually go into Chicago along Southwest Hwy and Columbus Ave and was one of a couple of ways to get from Joliet to Chicago along with IL 171 and US 66 prior to the Interstates.  However, I think nowadays, IL 7 should be rerouted to a Joliet-Naperville-Wheaton corridor along Larkin Ave, Weber Rd, Naper Blvd, Naperville-Wheaton Rd.  It could even go all the way to barrington along County Farm Rd and Barrington Rd.

[Chicagosuburban]

IL-7 is pointless. It switches roads too much and doesn't have a real corridor.

At one time, IL 7 was not so pointless.  Years ago before the great Chicago purge, a webpage that Rich Carlson has so neatly put together, IL 7 did actually go into Chicago along Southwest Hwy and Columbus Ave and was one of a couple of ways to get from Joliet to Chicago along with IL 171 and US 66 prior to the Interstates.  However, I think nowadays, IL 7 should be rerouted to a Joliet-Naperville-Wheaton corridor along Larkin Ave, Weber Rd, Naper Blvd, Naperville-Wheaton Rd.  It could even go all the way to barrington along County Farm Rd and Barrington Rd.

Again, I completely agree.

[Brandon]

IL-7 is pointless. It switches roads too much and doesn't have a real corridor.

At one time, IL 7 was not so pointless.  Years ago before the great Chicago purge, a webpage that Rich Carlson has so neatly put together, IL 7 did actually go into Chicago along Southwest Hwy and Columbus Ave and was one of a couple of ways to get from Joliet to Chicago along with IL 171 and US 66 prior to the Interstates.  However, I think nowadays, IL 7 should be rerouted to a Joliet-Naperville-Wheaton corridor along Larkin Ave, Weber Rd, Naper Blvd, Naperville-Wheaton Rd.  It could even go all the way to barrington along County Farm Rd and Barrington Rd.

Agreed.  Remove it from Theodore St, but make a new route (an IL-x06) along 159th St from Wolf Rd to IL-53.

[texaskdog]

U.S. 400, OTOH, isn't pointless for most of its route. It's just a dumb number and it serves no purpose west of Garden City (really west of Dodge City to be honest) other than force Colorado to sign a route it has no use for, I'm sure. It should be an X50 or X54. If the "ending in 0" thing is so damn important, it could have been U.S. 450.
[/quote]

Maybe I meant US-412

[apeman33]

Maybe I meant US-412

412 is a lot more iffy. What exactly does it connect? Tulsa to where, exactly, in either direction? It's more like a connection of multiple small regions to each other than to two important cities.

At least part of the purpose of 400 is a Joplin to Wichita route. Now, just exactly how many people are trying to get to Wichita from Joplin (or Springfield), I don't know. And if they were going to St. Louis, that's not the way they'd go, anyway.

I don't like that U.S. 400 multiplexes with U.S. 54 for so long. But I don't know how you'd get around it and it does give the route from Wichita to Dodge City and Garden City a single number instead of three (50, former 154, and 54). Again, though, that number could have been 450. (Add in that no sign indicates Dodge City as a destination along the way until you get to where 54 and 400 split at Mullinville; likewise, there's no indication you'll reach Wichita on 400 until the other side of Pratt). And it should end no farther west than at U.S. 83 in Garden City. The rest of the 400 designation to Granada is pointless.

[Super Mateo]

IL-7 is pointless. It switches roads too much and doesn't have a real corridor.

IL 7 does serve Homer Glen and the bridge in Lockport carries heavy traffic, but it isn't long enough for much else.  If it were me, I'd decommission it and realign US 6 to follow 159th/Renwick west to Weber Road and turn south until it hits US 6's current alignment.

[NE2]

412 is a lot more iffy. What exactly does it connect? Tulsa to where, exactly, in either direction? It's more like a connection of multiple small regions to each other than to two important cities.

Tulsa to Jackson, TN (and on to Nashville and beyond via I-40). About one-third to one-half of the way across Arkansas is now four lanes, and AHTD has plans to widen the rest, as well as build a Springdale bypass. Missouri is about half four-lane, and Oklahoma and Tennessee (west of Jackson) are complete.

[texaskdog]

412 is a lot more iffy. What exactly does it connect? Tulsa to where, exactly, in either direction? It's more like a connection of multiple small regions to each other than to two important cities.

Tulsa to Jackson, TN (and on to Nashville and beyond via I-40). About one-third to one-half of the way across Arkansas is now four lanes, and AHTD has plans to widen the rest, as well as build a Springdale bypass. Missouri is about half four-lane, and Oklahoma and Tennessee (west of Jackson) are complete.

anyone want to argue the asinine numbering?

[NE2]

No, since numbering does not make a route.

[drummer_evans_aki]

WA-501 - Unless they can figure out how to connect its northern segment in Ridgefield, WA to downtown Vancouver, WA, then it just seems pointless. I can connect the two cities with WA-501 to give it purpose and justify its existence. But again, I don't see the need for two segments of WA-501.

WA-503 Spur - Aside from connecting to Mount St. Helens, this road really has no purpose.

WA-500 should be shortened from Interstate 5 to NE Fourth Plain Rd as its for the most part, a four lane expressway that will be upgraded to a freeway. It does serve the Orchards area of Vancouver, WA. But outside of that, I don't see much use for it.

[vtk]

OH 710.  I guess it's there for the brewery or something -- probably just so Columbus gets maintenance reimbursement mileage from ODOT -- but it's quite pointless from a navigational standpoint.  Its U shape makes its directionality confusing when not vague.  I say it should be changed to an unsigned OH 161C.

And yes, Ohio actually has a fair number of unsigned state routes.  Some of them are logical connectors (like US 33F) but others don't have such an obvious reason to exist (OH 315C).

[Hot Rod Hootenanny]

OH 710.  I guess it's there for the brewery or something -- probably just so Columbus gets maintenance reimbursement mileage from ODOT -- but it's quite pointless from a navigational standpoint.  Its U shape makes its directionality confusing when not vague.  I say it should be changed to an unsigned OH 161C.

And yes, Ohio actually has a fair number of unsigned state routes.  Some of them are logical connectors (like US 33F) but others don't have such an obvious reason to exist (OH 315C).

Oh 710 (and Busch Blvd) was created for Anheuser-Busch and the Budwesier Brewery there on the northside back in 1965/66. Originally, there was to be an interchange between I-71 and Schrock Road as part of the project, Alas that never came about.

Oh 315C - The connector road between 315 and I-670. Or, as they would call it in Indiana, I-870.

[texaskdog]

No, since numbering does not make a route.

Asinine routes with asinine numbers, it all fits together.

[vtk]

Oh 315C - The connector road between 315 and I-670. Or, as they would call it in Indiana, I-870.

I think you're mistaken about OH 315C's location.  Its mileage increases as one travels westbound.  (I'm not sure eastbound OH 315C exists -- if it did, the mileage would probably increase as one travels east, like other E-W state routes...)  The route begins with the I-670 WB ramp to Goodale St, follows Goodale west to Olentangy River Road, then north onto the ramp to OH 315 SB.  This description, based on the straight line diagram accessed today, is distinct from the connecting ramps that Indiana might call I-870.  (Or would it be I-970, as the Olentangy Freeway isn't also an Interstate?)

Anyway, my theory on that one has to do with when there was a gap in I-670.  I was one of probably thousands of Columbus drivers who would use some combination of city streets to bridge the gap, rather than going around the far side of downtown.  I suspect the creation of this route was to add some state highway mileage, increasing what ODOT pays to Columbus for maintaining the state routes, to make up for the extra wear and tear on Goodale St.  But since I-670 was finished in 2003, this purpose no longer exists. 

[yakra]

Looks like originally that was the thru route, and then the connecting ramps as we know them now were later shoehorned in when 670 was completed.
http://mapper.acme.com/?ll=39.96850,-83.02394&z=15&t=O
IMO the end product is a lot more sensible and natural-looking than the original

[vtk]

Looks like originally that was the thru route, and then the connecting ramps as we know them now were later shoehorned in when 670 was completed.
http://mapper.acme.com/?ll=39.96850,-83.02394&z=15&t=O
IMO the end product is a lot more sensible and natural-looking than the original

In that 1994 imagery, the interchange was already beginning to change.  A new segment of Olentangy River Road was nearly complete, open to southbound traffic, and the SB entrance from Olentangy River Road and SB exit to Goodale Street had vanished.  The stubs of the present-day SB exit and entrance ramps were already there in 1994.  Those new connecting ramps from SB 315 to EB 670 and WB 670 to NB 315 opened circa 2000, give or take a year.  (This was at the same time OH 315 was first closed to through traffic at Spring-Sandusky.  Anyone know the date with better precision?  Hot Rod?)

The current route of 315C does make some sense in the context of the original Spring-Sandusky Interchange design – though it would have used a different ramp on its west end – but that still leaves it without purpose today.

[Hot Rod Hootenanny]

The ODOT straight line diagram I saw for 315c showed it running along Goodale St. from Olentangy River Rd to Neil Ave.
That, was the southern terminus for 315 in the 60s and 70s, after 315 was extended south from 161 to the innerbelt (to be routed along Olentangy Freeway/Olentangy River Rd Expressway) and before I-71 was "removed" from the west and north halves of the innerbelt (and I-670 was signed).
Now that ODOT's map archive is accessable again, go see the C-bus insert from the 1976 map for proof.

[vtk]

The ODOT straight line diagram I saw for 315c showed it running along Goodale St. from Olentangy River Rd to Neil Ave.
That, was the southern terminus for 315 in the 60s and 70s, after 315 was extended south from 161 to the innerbelt (to be routed along Olentangy Freeway/Olentangy River Rd Expressway) and before I-71 was "removed" from the west and north halves of the innerbelt (and I-670 was signed).
Now that ODOT's map archive is accessable again, go see the C-bus insert from the 1976 map for proof.

I have all those maps saved on my own computer, so I didn't even notice that they weren't available online for a while...

Well that's just strange.  I always thought, when the entire Innerbelt was I-71, that 315's southern end was at the Spring-Sandusky Interchange, not the North Innerbelt / Neil Avenue interchange.  That would have made more sense to me.  But I suppose this way, OH 315 had access to and from both directions of I-71 via simple ramps, rather than merging with one direction of I-71 and requiring a length of connecting streets for the other direction...

So the lesson of the day is that OH 315C is actually old 315, slightly modified due to and made entirely pointless by the changes to the Spring-Sandusky Interchange.  I still don't see a reason to keep it on the books.  Also, before it was the Columbus Health Department but after it was the Ohio Asylum for the Blind, apparently the building at Parsons & Main was the Highway Safety Building.

[Hot Rod Hootenanny]

Also, before it was the Columbus Health Department but after it was the Ohio Asylum for the Blind, apparently the building at Parsons & Main was the Highway Safety Building.

Yes it was. For many years there used to be Ohio Highway Patrol sign there on Parsons in front of that building.

[ftballfan]

KY-144.

[Rover_0]

Here are some from Utah.  The some were also mentioned in the meeting I had with UDOT (starred):

UT-168:  Used to serve the north gate of Hill AFB, but the north gate has been closed.

UT-144:  Serves Tibble Fork Reservior from UT-92; was a forest service road that was turned over to state maintainence in the 1970s.  Similar to the UT-3xx series which serves state parks (many of which are reserviors).

UT-174:  Serves a power plant (Intermountain Power Plant in Millard County).

UT-45*:  Goes south from US-40 near Vernal to Bonanza; seems to serve no other purpose.

UT-88:  Similar to UT-45, but if oil production warrants it, it could be extended south to I-70/US-6/50 and could be a future US-191 alignment.

With the "route consolidation" discussed in the UDOT meeting last week, here are some suggestions I've sent to UDOT, with the help of concurrencies (or at least the Utah State Route version of them):

UT-103 to UT-107:  UT-103 is the shortest signed Utah state route, and a short concurrency with UT-126 could make this a part of UT-107.

UT-110 to UT-127 (or Vice Versa):  UT-127 was once the Antelope Island Causeway (across the Great Salt Lake), but that portion has been cut back to the mainland.  UT-127 and UT-110 both share a common end point, and it would make sense to make them the same route.

UT-248 to UT-150 (or Vice Versa): The southwest end of UT-150 is only 2 blocks north of the east end of UT-248.  A short concurrency with UT-32 would make these routes the same.  Perhaps you could absorb UT-224 from Park City to I-80 as well.

UT-8 and UT-34:  A 1-mile concurrency with UT-18 would make St. George and Sunset Blvds. into the same state route.  UT-8 could become part of the St. George Beltway, however (as UT-7 is the first portion of it).

UT-141 and UT-147:  Northbound UT-141 becomes Northbound UT-147 at the same point; I say make it all UT-147.

UT-72 to UT-10*:  Talked about in UDOT meeting.  It only seems to make sense that a single route number would be used between Loa and Price.

UT-56 to UT-14*:  Like UT-72 and UT-10, discussed in meeting.  Only separated by two blocks.

UT-153 to UT-21*:  Similar to UT-72/UT-10, UT-56/UT-14, except that UT-153 is unpaved and closed in winter.