Pointless routes

[texaskdog]

Has I-180 been mentioned yet?

[corco]

I-180 isn't pointless- the road is just substandard

[agentsteel53]

Has I-180 been mentioned yet?

which one?

the one in Illinois is useless.
the one in Wyoming is substandard.
the one in California is misnumbered.

not a good showing by this number.  at least the one in Nebraska has a button copy sign remaining at its junction with 80.

[texaskdog]

Has I-180 been mentioned yet?

which one?

the one in Illinois is useless.
the one in Wyoming is substandard.
the one in California is misnumbered.

not a good showing by this number.  at least the one in Nebraska has a button copy sign remaining at its junction with 80.

180 can be this board's number for "obsolete"

[ftballfan]

Has I-180 been mentioned yet?

which one?

the one in Illinois is useless.
the one in Wyoming is substandard.
the one in California is misnumbered.

not a good showing by this number.  at least the one in Nebraska has a button copy sign remaining at its junction with 80.

180 can be this board's number for "obsolete"

Is there even an I-180 in CA?

[national highway 1]

No, they are talking about I-238 being 'I-180'.

[US12]

I am not saying it is pointless but why was I 470 built around wheeling?

[dfilpus]

I am not saying it is pointless but why was I 470 built around wheeling?

As an alternative to the tunnel.

[TheStranger]

No, they are talking about I-238 being 'I-180'.

Not necessarily.  The I-580 extension (former Route 17) to San Rafael was proposed as I-180 in the early 1980s, before CalTrans told the FHWA they did not want to renumber state route 180 (an original 1934-era state route that is the major east-west freeway in Fresno now) due to the state's conventions against duplicated route numbers, thus this road was added to I-580's length instead.

[agentsteel53]

I wasn't specifically thinking of a single reason why "I-180" in CA is misnumbered - but yes, the existence of 238, the awkward sections of 580, and the fact that CA-180 was not renumbered (while CA-5, CA-10, CA-15, etc all were) ... all good reasons why "I-180" is a misnumbering.

[TheStranger]

I wasn't specifically thinking of a single reason why "I-180" in CA is misnumbered - but yes, the existence of 238, the awkward sections of 580, and the fact that CA-180 was not renumbered (while CA-5, CA-10, CA-15, etc all were) ... all good reasons why "I-180" is a misnumbering.

I'm fascinated by the fact that 5/10/15 were renumbered (to 35, 42, and 7) respectively...yet was no room ever considered for 3dis?

The State Route 215 that existed briefly after the renumbering (not the later current I-215) was a former segment of Route 71 that was to be bypassed by the Orange Freeway, as one example of the lack of foresight in the 1964 numbering project.

California's initial numbering choices though probably had to do with why 180 and 215 weren't expected to be "needed" - at the time, the only 3dis for I-80 that were proposed were 280, 480, and 680 (380 created in the late 1960s, 580 only created during the renumbering and likely gaining its number as a derivation of the old I-5W designation, 780 came about in 1976 and 980 soon after that), and I-15 ended at I-10 in San Bernardino along what was then US 395/91, what later became I-15E and what is now the northern segment of I-215.

[JCinSummerfield]

The road is not pointless, but I feel the moniker of US-223 should be abolished.  For what the road does, I think a state route serves just as sufficient. It is in MI for all but 1/4 mile of its' current existence, and OH doesn't even sign it!

[InterstateNG]

The road is not pointless, but I feel the moniker of US-223 should be abolished.  For what the road does, I think a state route serves just as sufficient. It is in MI for all but 1/4 mile of its' current existence, and OH doesn't even sign it!

US-223 is signed plenty in Ohio.

I agree that at 47 mile 3dus is silly, but the road should be signed as something.  Lenawee and especially Monroe Counties are not known for their smooth undesignated roads.

[JCinSummerfield]

US-223 is signed plenty in OH?  If you don't know where it is, you will never find it!  The only sign for it is on the US-23 exit ramp to Monroe St, indicating the end of the route.  Nowhere else in OH is there a hint of US-223.

And I did indicate that the route between US-23 & US-127 should be a state highway.  Many race fans use this route.  I didn't suggest at all that the road be turned back to local authority.

[vtk]

The road is not pointless, but I feel the moniker of US-223 should be abolished.  For what the road does, I think a state route serves just as sufficient. It is in MI for all but 1/4 mile of its' current existence, and OH doesn't even sign it!

There was a discussion of this on Great Lakes Roads back in the day.  The prevailing opinion there seemed to be that the road should indeed be a US route, and AASHTO's rule against short US routes was the problem.

My solution would be to extend US 250 west from Sandusky along OH 2 through Toledo and then into Michigan, absorbing US 223.  Seems like a natural extension to me.  Maybe I should bring it up on the Fictional Highways section of the forum.

[Brandon]

The road is not pointless, but I feel the moniker of US-223 should be abolished.  For what the road does, I think a state route serves just as sufficient. It is in MI for all but 1/4 mile of its' current existence, and OH doesn't even sign it!

US-223 is signed plenty in Ohio.

I agree that at 47 mile 3dus is silly, but the road should be signed as something.  Lenawee and especially Monroe Counties are not known for their smooth undesignated roads.

I think the idea of a 1,000+ mile 3dus is silly (see US-191).  US-223 fits the original intent of 3duses as connecting routes.  US-191 should have a 2dus number.

[ftballfan]

For US-191, just drop the leading 1 (making it US-91) south of central Utah.

For US-223, extend it northwest from its current terminus to end at US-31 between Grand Haven and Holland (via US-127, M-50, I-96, I-196, and M-45).

[InterstateNG]

US-223 is signed plenty in OH?  If you don't know where it is, you will never find it!  The only sign for it is on the US-23 exit ramp to Monroe St, indicating the end of the route.  Nowhere else in OH is there a hint of US-223.

There are 223 shields all over the BGS's on Alexis Road.

And I did indicate that the route between US-23 & US-127 should be a state highway.  Many race fans use this route.  I didn't suggest at all that the road be turned back to local authority.

If you'll re-read, you'll note that I agree with you.

[texaskdog]

For US-191, just drop the leading 1 (making it US-91) south of central Utah.

All of 191 should just be 91.  Whats left of 91 is not too significant, can be a branch of 89 if anyone thinks its really necessary.

[Quillz]

I would agree that some 3dus are excessively long. Spurs, auxiliaries, whatever you want to call them, should be just that: used to provide access to smaller towns or communities the main route doesn't touch. It's especially silly today with several 3dus, like US-281, being border-to-border and longer than their primaries.

[mhallack]

I-195 to Old Orchard Beach and I-395 to Brewer, both off of I-95 Maine.

I still ask myself why?

[NE2]

To serve Saco/Old Orchard Beach and Bangor/Brewer, respectively. (Duh.)

[yakra]

Before 195, all the turnpike traffic for OOB being squeezed through Saco on routes 112, 1 & 5 was hell. Especially in summa turist season. It's local bypass that's really needed.

As is 395... Without it, all traffic would have to use city streets & the two downtown crossings between Bangor & Brewer. Ugh. It neatly connects US1A and Ellsworth, Downeast & Acadia to the main highway network. It handles a lot of truck traffic to/from the Maritimes, dumping enough of it out onto routes 1A & 46 en route to 9 that they're studying extending it.

[mhallack]

I can see the need, I guess why sign them as interstates. I should have been clearer, sorry!!

[ftballfan]

KY-7 in eastern Kentucky is over 200 miles of winding road. It runs mainly north-south, but turns east-west at Deane and then turns north-south again (actually south-north) at Cornettsville. Its southern terminus is at KY-15, a road that it meets again about 20 miles east at Isom.