Double steady red signal

[empirestate]

In my neighborhood you'll frequently see steady red LED signal faces used as a sort of end-of-road marker, usually where the road they face doesn't continue beyond a T-junction, and there is often a wall, drop-off or other hazard there. They're deployed in pairs and are at about eye-level for a driver. Needless to say, they never change or go off.

Here's a Street View of one:
http://g.co/maps/772qg

Are these found in many other places? Are they ever confused for the usual red traffic signals? What has the MUTCD to say about them?

[roadfro]

It's not a device found in the MUTCD.

I would question why they are using lighted signals for this purpose. Using standard end of road (Type 4) object markers--i.e. red diamond signs or red/black diamonds with red reflectors--would be sufficient marking, cost lest to install, and would not use any electricity.

[Brian556]

Using standard end of road (Type 4) object markers--i.e. red diamond signs or red/black diamonds with red reflectors--would be sufficient marking, cost lest to install, and would not use any electricity.

Actually, at a T intersection, The double arrow sign should be the primary device. Yellow 18 inch diamond markers can be used to supplement the doulble arrow. In Texas, If the intersection is with a one way road, a single arrow sign is used in addition to a one way sign. (see example below)

The MUTCD states that red markers are to only be used at dead ends where there is no alternate direction of travel ( not an intersection ). I checked this a while back because I remembered that in Florida the State DOT uses yellow at T-intersections, but Orange County uses red. (appearently they are wrong).

Orange County also used white 12x6 reflectors to mark culvurts on the right side and yellows on the left. Don't know why.

Texas example (with single arrow sign, no diamond markers), I-35 at FM 1173, near Denton:http://maps.google.com/maps?q=krum,tx&hl=en&ll=33.259575,-97.178407&spn=0.01308,0.01929&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=50.291089,79.013672&vpsrc=6&hnear=Krum,+Denton,+Texas&t=m&z=16&layer=c&cbll=33.259579,-97.178305&panoid=_9jZ_sCepKW4s7u5IGohPQ&cbp=12,110.13,,0,0

Florida example, with yellow diamond markers:http://maps.google.com/maps?q=Winter+Garden,+FL&hl=en&ll=28.672861,-81.779368&spn=0.027599,0.038581&sll=33.259575,-97.178299&sspn=0.013152,0.01929&vpsrc=6&hnear=Winter+Garden,+Orange,+Florida&t=m&z=15&layer=c&cbll=28.672861,-81.779368&panoid=_4A666tTHvoPSIDVjgoCGw&cbp=12,290.08,,0,0

Florida example, county, with red markers (incorrect):http://maps.google.com/maps?q=Winter+Garden,+FL&hl=en&ll=28.421599,-81.375647&spn=0.055331,0.077162&sll=33.259575,-97.178299&sspn=0.013152,0.01929&vpsrc=6&hnear=Winter+Garden,+Orange,+Florida&t=m&z=14&layer=c&cbll=28.421569,-81.375798&panoid=RJz3WIAGHZITytH7aPHILQ&cbp=12,189.86,,0,0

[roadfro]

Using standard end of road (Type 4) object markers--i.e. red diamond signs or red/black diamonds with red reflectors--would be sufficient marking, cost lest to install, and would not use any electricity.

Actually, at a T intersection, The double arrow sign should be the primary device. Yellow 18 inch diamond markers can be used to supplement the doulble arrow. In Texas, If the intersection is with a one way road, a single arrow sign is used in addition to a one way sign. (see example below)

The MUTCD states that red markers are to only be used at dead ends where there is no alternate direction of travel ( not an intersection ). I checked this a while back because I remembered that in Florida the State DOT uses yellow at T-intersections, but Orange County uses red. (appearently they are wrong).

According to the 2009 MUTCD, using yellow object markers to mark the end of road at a T-intersection is incorrect.

Type 1 object markers (yellow diamonds) are for obstructions within the roadway. Type 4 object markers (red diamonds) are used to mark the end of roadways--an option states that type 4 markers may be used in instances where there are no alternate vehicle paths.

There is nothing in the MUTCD that requires either an object marker or a double arrow to be placed facing the stem of the T-intersection, just requirements *if* used.

[empirestate]

Using standard end of road (Type 4) object markers--i.e. red diamond signs or red/black diamonds with red reflectors--would be sufficient marking, cost lest to install, and would not use any electricity.

Actually, at a T intersection, The double arrow sign should be the primary device. Yellow 18 inch diamond markers can be used to supplement the doulble arrow. In Texas, If the intersection is with a one way road, a single arrow sign is used in addition to a one way sign. (see example below)

The problem to be overcome, I suspect, and the biggest difference between NYC and the examples given here, is that there is a LOT of visual clutter around in NYC. Whereas the double arrow standing alone is plenty visible in rural areas, it would tend to get lost in the crowded urban environment.

Furthermore, I expect they're trying to combat the fact that motorists tend to barrel down neighborhood streets at top speed, not always stopping to check whether the road they're barreling on actually continues.

The MUTCD states that red markers are to only be used at dead ends where there is no alternate direction of travel ( not an intersection ). I checked this a while back because I remembered that in Florida the State DOT uses yellow at T-intersections, but Orange County uses red. (appearently they are wrong).

Agreed that a red indicator (whether marker or light) seems to suggest a dead end and not a T-intersection. Furthermore, if you do want to put up a red light at a T-intersection, why not add a beacon to the stop sign, which is an accepted practice?

[roadfro]

Agreed that a red indicator (whether marker or light) seems to suggest a dead end and not a T-intersection. Furthermore, if you do want to put up a red light at a T-intersection, why not add a beacon to the stop sign, which is an accepted practice?

A red indicator has always suggested "end of road", whether used at a T-intersection or dead end situation...at least, to me. I've seen them used many times in both contexts.

In this case with the red lights, it appears the road agency desires the red lights to alert drivers approaching from the stem of the intersection to the wall that would be hit if they go too far. A flashing red beacon atop the stop sign, while possibly appropriate to call attention to the stop requirement, would not have quite the same effect as an object marker on the wall itself.