Penn Pike opens four new bridges near Lehighton on NE Extension I-476

[Alps]

I just don't think such a thing should be required. We've inherited a system that we know has flaws, but sometimes the cost of providing a connection between freeways is incomaptible with the benefits. Sometimes doing so would hurt the toll road significantly by providing a much easier free bypass. They are a for-profit agency and therefore should be allowed to determine how best to continue to earn profits. In almost all cases, agencies operate by reinvesting in improvements, so why not let them determine the improvements that best serve their users?

[cpzilliacus]

Congress could easily mandate that before such bonds are declared to be exempt from federal tax, the Turnpike must obtain certification from Federal Highway Administration that it has direct connections to all intersecting highways of functional class expressway or freeway.  I believe the only states that would be impacted are Pennsylvania, New Jersey (there's a "breezewood" in Bellmawr where the Turnpike does not connect at all to N.J. 42/I-76/ACE) and perhaps Florida (there's also a "breezewood" in Fort Pierce).

It would be silly to require it on parallel highways that cross (Fort Pierce and to the south) and reasonable connections via other roads (I-87 and US 209 near Kingston). Perhaps it should be required only if projected traffic counts exceed a certain amount or the current connection has an unacceptable level of service that would be improved with direct connections (which may actually be true for some movements at Fort Pierce). There is a crossing with no interchange at the Turnpike and SR 417 south of Orlando though (there are plans to build a full interchange). Ohio has a couple as well, and New York has at least one (I-87 and NY 85).

I thought that Ohio had remediated all of its "breezewoods?"

I know there used to be several in the past, but I believe that the Ohio Turnpike mainline is now directly connected to all crossing freeways and expressways.

[cpzilliacus]

I just don't think such a thing should be required. We've inherited a system that we know has flaws, but sometimes the cost of providing a connection between freeways is incomaptible with the benefits. Sometimes doing so would hurt the toll road significantly by providing a much easier free bypass. They are a for-profit agency and therefore should be allowed to determine how best to continue to earn profits. In almost all cases, agencies operate by reinvesting in improvements, so why not let them determine the improvements that best serve their users?

I respectfully disagree.

Toll roads and toll crossings in the United States, with few exceptions, are part of a national network of highways and other modes of transportation.  That makes them fair game for federal regulation, including getting rid of "breezewoods."  Stated differently, if Pennsylvania wants to retain its "breezewoods," then it should not have the benefit of favorable federal tax treatment of interest paid on Turnpike Commission bonds.

I assert that if the PTC were really a profit-making operation (as in a private-sector concession, similar to the Indiana Toll Road and Highway 407 in Ontario - neither of which have "breezewoods"), the Pennsylvania Turnpike's many "breezewoods" would quickly be remediated.  But I understand that the PTC is a major source of political patronage jobs, I don't think that either party wants to privatize the Pennsylvania Turnpike system.

[NE2]

I thought that Ohio had remediated all of its "breezewoods?"

I-475, SR 10, I-271, SR 11

I assert that if the PTC were really a profit-making operation (as in a private-sector concession, similar to the Indiana Toll Road and Highway 407 in Ontario - neither of which have "breezewoods")

The Indiana Toll Road has one at SR 912, and only five other freeway interchanges (one of which is partial). Highway 407 was originally planned as a free road, and (at least near the west end) I believe interchanges were designed before it became a toll project.

[hbelkins]

I have a completely different definition of "Breezewood" than, it appears, most here do. I don't consider the lack of freeway-to-freeway connections on intersecting routes (such as I-76 and I-81) to be a "Breezewood." To me, that means when you have to use a surface route to stay on the same interstate. I don't think Pennsylvania should be forced to connect I-76 and I-81, or Ohio to connect I-80 and I-271, but the gap in I-70 is inexcusable.

[Hot Rod Hootenanny]

I thought that Ohio had remediated all of its "breezewoods?"

I-475, SR 10, I-271, SR 11

Ohio 10 has an interchange with the Turnpike. Had one since the Ohio Turnpike opened.

[Beltway]

I have a completely different definition of "Breezewood" than, it appears, most here do. I don't consider the lack of freeway-to-freeway connections on intersecting routes (such as I-76 and I-81) to be a "Breezewood." To me, that means when you have to use a surface route to stay on the same interstate. I don't think Pennsylvania should be forced to connect I-76 and I-81, or Ohio to connect I-80 and I-271, but the gap in I-70 is inexcusable.

I don't see much of a difference ... Interstates are a system, and conceptually there is no difference whether you use one or several on a trip. 

For instance, Pittsburgh to Allentown, using I-76 Turnpike, I-81 and I-78.  I-76 and I-81 at Carlisle conceptually would be a "Breezewood" in making you take surface roads to make a connection in what should be a seamless Interstate highway trip.

[hbelkins]

For instance, Pittsburgh to Allentown, using I-76 Turnpike, I-81 and I-78.  I-76 and I-81 at Carlisle conceptually would be a "Breezewood" in making you take surface roads to make a connection in what should be a seamless Interstate highway trip.

For that trip, you have three other full freeway options:

• US 15 to PA 581 to I-83 to I-81
• I-83 to I-81
• I-283 to I-83 to I-81

[Beltway]

For instance, Pittsburgh to Allentown, using I-76 Turnpike, I-81 and I-78.  I-76 and I-81 at Carlisle conceptually would be a "Breezewood" in making you take surface roads to make a connection in what should be a seamless Interstate highway trip.

For that trip, you have three other full freeway options:

• US 15 to PA 581 to I-83 to I-81
• I-83 to I-81
• I-283 to I-83 to I-81

I was aware of all of them, but I-81 is clearly the most direct and least congested route between I-76 and I-78 (or for that matter to continue on I-81 northward toward Scranton).

[NE2]

Ohio 10 has an interchange with the Turnpike. Had one since the Ohio Turnpike opened.

Er no. The interchange is with old SR 10 (Lorain Road).

[mightyace]

^^^

Remediating that situation would be a royal PITA as you have (from west to east) the partial exit of I-480, current OH 10 crossing the turnpike and the exit with old OH 10.

[Hot Rod Hootenanny]

^^^

Remediating that situation would be a royal PITA as you have (from west to east) the partial exit of I-480, current OH 10 crossing the turnpike and the exit with old OH 10.

Not sure what ODOT and OTC's thinking was on that interchange when it was completed in the early 80s. They could have done something akin to what was constructed at US 42 & I-71 with the turnpike.

[goobnav]

Ohio still has not directly connected I-77 and the Ohio Turnpike just outside Cleveland and I-280 and the Turnpike outside Toldeo, they are not true Interstate to Interstate connections.

[NE2]

Ohio still has not directly connected I-77 and the Ohio Turnpike just outside Cleveland and I-280 and the Turnpike outside Toldeo, they are not true Interstate to Interstate connections.

Yes they have...

[goobnav]

I-280 Ends at a traffic light after going under the Ohio Turnpike, that is not a freeway to freeway end, you have to turn .  The exit for the Ohio Turnpike from I-77 connects to OH 21, former US 21, still not freeway to freeway.

See link below for I-280 end at the Turnpike:

http://www.interstate-guide.com/i-280_oh.html

[Mr_Northside]

The exit for the Ohio Turnpike from I-77 connects to OH 21, former US 21, still not freeway to freeway.

There has been direct "freeway to freeway" access between the Ohio Turnpike & 77 for a couple of years now (with OH 21 in the middle)

http://maps.google.com/maps?q=Fairlawn,+OH&hl=en&ll=41.274065,-81.627645&spn=0.020384,0.045447&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=43.799322,93.076172&vpsrc=6&hnear=Fairlawn,+Summit,+Ohio&t=k&z=15

[NE2]

I-280 Ends at a traffic light after going under the Ohio Turnpike, that is not a freeway to freeway end, you have to turn .

Nope.

[JREwing78]

Take a closer look at the picture NE2 posted of I-280 @ I-80/90 near Toledo. That is not a Breezewood. That is most certainly a freeway-to-freeway connection.

There are no traffic lights, and (except for the toll booths) no stops involved. Those are direct ramps to and from I-280 to the Turnpike.

Doesn't matter if a 1/4 mile south of the exit and entrance ramps it turns into OH-420 and has a stoplight. At that point, it is not an interstate. You're not forced to drive past the truck stops to get on or off the Turnpike (though I certainly stopped there frequently on one of my many trips to and from Cleveland).

[cpzilliacus]

Take a closer look at the picture NE2 posted of I-280 @ I-80/90 near Toledo. That is not a Breezewood. That is most certainly a freeway-to-freeway connection.

There are no traffic lights, and (except for the toll booths) no stops involved. Those are direct ramps to and from I-280 to the Turnpike.

Doesn't matter if a 1/4 mile south of the exit and entrance ramps it turns into OH-420 and has a stoplight. At that point, it is not an interstate. You're not forced to drive past the truck stops to get on or off the Turnpike (though I certainly stopped there frequently on one of my many trips to and from Cleveland).

I have not been through there since 2008 (going south on I-280 to then enter the Ohio Turnpike headed east), but even then, there was no Breezewood-style signalized intersection there.