Lowest-quality road on a U.S. Route?

[cu2010]

Part of US 11 in the southern part of Watertown is just a two lane residential street with no pavement marking and all-way stops.

US11's routing through Watertown is extremely confusing and not well-signed at all...heading northbound, following the signs for 11 will take you up Washington Street, across Public Square, and up Mill Street (which is striped, but otherwise a typical residential street)...while heading southbound takes you down LeRay, North Massey, and Holcomb Streets, cutting across on Paddock back to Washington (of which Holcomb and Paddock are the aforementioned streets with no markings and four-way stops).

Many maps have both routings marked as US11...to further add to the confusion, though, Mill Street has a "TO 11" sign on it...even though, if you followed signage heading northbound (or signage for northbound US11 off of NY3 westbound heading into the Public Square), you ARE on US11!

[formulanone]

There's no shame in any road having curves in it. 

[roadman65]

US 129 in Tennessee is very windy and trucks cannot use it cause the curves are too sharp.

It is called The Dragon for a reason...but the road itself isn't in as bad shape as most of these.

No, but its winding conditions are worse than most US roads through mountain areas, at least on the east coast.
Post Merge: January 10, 2012, 01:59:14 PM

I nominate US 202, in Northern New Jersey where it is county maintained!  Poor signage, and some places still the old NJ 2 digit shields with no reflectiveness at night. In Bergen County it seems they forgot its US 202 and just south of the NY State Line, there is no directional shields where US 202 goes from Franklin Turnpike to Ramapo Valley Road.

If you were following signs for the route, there is a good chance you would get lost.  This could lead to dangerous situations.   Somebody needs to contact whoever maintains this road and suggest they place a sign assembly at this point.  And if they won't do anything, go to the media.

The problem is this part of US 202 never serves long distance travel, nor has it ever.  It raises the question why was it part of the US Route system in the first place.  Its longer than its parent.  I do not think that many people used the whole length of it in the pre-interstate days.  It never was a truck route cause two bridges on it had weight restrictions on it in New Jersey, now one does still.  The other was re-aligned 30 years ago with a new freeway and a new crossing over the Delaware River.  Back in the day a truck could not use US 202 from NJ to PA as there was not even a Truck route there as some US and state routes have truck designations signed.

[NE2]

The problem is this part of US 202 never serves long distance travel, nor has it ever.  It raises the question why was it part of the US Route system in the first place.

Presumably as an inland alternate to US 1.

Its longer than its parent.

Since when is 627 greater than 2643?

I do not think that many people used the whole length of it in the pre-interstate days.  It never was a truck route cause two bridges on it had weight restrictions on it in New Jersey, now one does still.  The other was re-aligned 30 years ago with a new freeway and a new crossing over the Delaware River.  Back in the day a truck could not use US 202 from NJ to PA as there was not even a Truck route there as some US and state routes have truck designations signed.

In 1951, the weight limit on the New Hope-Lambertville Bridge was 12 tons (according to the DRJTBC annual report). That's not exactly a modern truck weight, but it's significantly better than the current 4 ton limit.

[roadman65]

The problem is this part of US 202 never serves long distance travel, nor has it ever.  It raises the question why was it part of the US Route system in the first place.

Presumably as an inland alternate to US 1.

Its longer than its parent.

Since when is 627 greater than 2643?

I do not think that many people used the whole length of it in the pre-interstate days.  It never was a truck route cause two bridges on it had weight restrictions on it in New Jersey, now one does still.  The other was re-aligned 30 years ago with a new freeway and a new crossing over the Delaware River.  Back in the day a truck could not use US 202 from NJ to PA as there was not even a Truck route there as some US and state routes have truck designations signed.

In 1951, the weight limit on the New Hope-Lambertville Bridge was 12 tons (according to the DRJTBC annual report). That's not exactly a modern truck weight, but it's significantly better than the current 4 ton limit.

According to Wikopedia it states that for its article on US 202.  It brought that up because where it branches off of its parent at Bangor, ME the segment of US 2 is not that long as the length of US 202.

I agree, US 2, with both segments put together is far longer than its child.  However, it is longer than the segment it branches from so I see who ever submitted the articles point and in a way he or she is right.

[Kacie Jane]

Question... What makes US 2 different from I-76/84/86/etc.?  That is to say, why would Wikipedia treat US 2 as a single route, but not the split interstates?

[flowmotion]

Question... What makes US 2 different from I-76/84/86/etc.?  That is to say, why would Wikipedia treat US 2 as a single route, but not the split interstates?

This isn't the answer, but at one point Canada had "TO US 2" signs posted connecting the two routes. (I remember seeing one of these as a kid.)

[empirestate]

Actually, I think that is the answer: that US 2 has an implied connection through Canada (specifically what that connection is, isn't important). The split Interstates, on the other hand, don't connect because they don't need to...some other Interstate exists between them, so there's no theoretical continuity of those numbers.

To put it another way, US 2 would be continuous if Canada didn't get in the way, so it's a single route. The split Interstates aren't continuous even though Canada isn't in the way, so they're separate routes.

[NE2]

Question... What makes US 2 different from I-76/84/86/etc.?  That is to say, why would Wikipedia treat US 2 as a single route, but not the split interstates?

If you must have reliable sources:
http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/infrastructure/us2.cfm [the whole thing is written as if it's one route]
http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/infrastructure/i76.cfm "A western I-76 is designated between Denver, Colorado, and I-80 in Nebraska near Big Springs, where the duplication of the number would not cause any confusion for motorists."

This isn't the answer, but at one point Canada had "TO US 2" signs posted connecting the two routes. (I remember seeing one of these as a kid.)

A photo of that would be almost as brickshitgenic as one of a New England route shield.

[agentsteel53]

brickshitgenic

[roadman65]

U.S. Route 202
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
   This article needs additional citations for verification. Please help improve this article by adding citations to reliable sources. Unsourced material may be challenged and removed. (August 2008)

U.S. Route 202 marker
U.S. Route 202
Route information
Auxiliary route of US 2
Length:    629.6 mi (1,013.2 km)
Existed:    1935 — present
Major junctions
South end:    US 13 / US 40 / DE 141 in New Castle, DE
     

I-95 from Newport to Wilmington, DE
I-76 / I-276 / Penna. Tpk. in King of Prussia, PA
I-80 in Parsippany, NJ
I-87 / I-287 in Suffern, NY
I-84 / US 6 in Brewster, NY/Danbury, CT
I-90 / US 20 / Mass. Pike in Westfield, MA
I-91 / US 5 in Holyoke, MA
I-89 in Hopkinton, NH
I-93 / I-393 / US 3 / US 4 in Concord, NH
I-95 / US 201 / Maine Tpk. in Augusta, ME
North end:    
US 1A Bus. / US 2 / SR 9 / SR 100 in Bangor, ME
Highway system

United States Numbered Highways
List - Bannered - Divided - Replaced

U.S. Route 202 is a highway stretching from Delaware to Maine, also passing through the states of Pennsylvania, New Jersey, New York, Connecticut, Massachusetts, and New Hampshire.

The road has borne the number 202 since at least 1935. Before this, sections of the road were designated U.S. Route 122, as it intersected U.S. Route 22. Its current designation is based on its intersection with US 2 in Maine.

This route is considerably longer than the eastern segment of US 2, making it one of several 3-digit US routes to be longer than their parent routes.


The above was copied from Wikopedia, and it states that US 202 is longer than its parent being that it branched off of the eastern segment.

[corco]

And from the FHWA, which is much closer to being a primary source and therefore more reliable than Wikipedia

The route [US-2] is shown in the most recent log published by the American Association of State Highway and Transportation Officials as being 2,643 miles long.

US-202 is less than 2,643 miles long.

[Kacie Jane]

Question... What makes US 2 different from I-76/84/86/etc.?  That is to say, why would Wikipedia treat US 2 as a single route, but not the split interstates?

If you must have reliable sources:
http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/infrastructure/us2.cfm [the whole thing is written as if it's one route]
http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/infrastructure/i76.cfm "A western I-76 is designated between Denver, Colorado, and I-80 in Nebraska near Big Springs, where the duplication of the number would not cause any confusion for motorists."

I'm not terribly concerned about Reliable Sources... My question isn't so much if it's true, but why it's true.  In other words, if Wikipedia treats them differently because the FHWA treats them differently, then why does the FHWA treat them differently?

And for what it's worth, there are other pages on the FHWA site that treat the interstates as single routes.  For instance, http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/reports/routefinder/table1.cfm lists total mileage for I-76, including both sections.

[Scott5114]

I imagine it has something to do with time of establishment and logic. US 2 was all established at the same time and both form a part of the same corridor, albeit with Canada interrupting. You could consider it all the same route. There are very few trips that would involve both I-76s, or I-82s, or I-84s. They merely share a number, and aren't a part of the same route.

[empirestate]

^^^Agreed. The two I-76's are no more the same route than the eight or so I-295's are. Established in different places at different times for different purposes, with no intention of being connected either in theory or practice. But US 2 was established all at once as the northernmost major E-W corridor in the US Highway system. If the province of Ontario somehow joined the U.S., then you can bet that US 2 would pass right on through it!

[SSOWorld]

I-76, I-84 and I-86 western segments were established as part of an effort to lose suffixed Interstate routes.
the I-88 western segment was established as part of the loophole to allow 65 on that strech of road that would otherwise have had to be 55 mph under the old NMSL law.

[florida]

Wow, that US 83 Business Route is quite a donkey path. 

US 98 where it split off diagonally from US 441/FL 80 in Palm Beach County (it eventually re-joined US 441 at Canal Point) was very bumpy and potentially unsafe. Basically, the road was a levee that straddled two canals, and was primarily used by trucks hauling sugar cane to the nearby refineries. This road would have to be entirely repaved every 5 years...so occasionally it would be smooth, but the next year I'd travel on it, the road was bumpy as ever. In late-2008, US 98 was rerouted onto US 441, so that old section was designated FL 700.

Ah yes, old bumpy US 98.  That took the cake.

I was going to say US 441 through the same area (from Pahokee to Belle Glade...especially that tight S-Curve), but after looking at it on satellite maps, they've improved it immensely.

[mightyace]

I-76, I-84 and I-86 western segments were established as part of an effort to lose suffixed Interstate routes.

Actually, both I-76s were.  In it's original setup, the eastern I-80S ran close to the run that the modern eastern I-76 does.  Then I-76 was established from Pittsburgh to Philly with I-80S being truncated to the Monroeville turnpike exit as its eastern terminus.  When the remainder of I-80S was decommissioned, I-76 was routed onto its current alignment and I-376 was created to go into Pittsburgh.

AFAIK, the western I-80S was switched to I-76 in its entirety.

[agentsteel53]

US-11 north of Hattiesburg, MS looks like any old road going to some run-down industrial neighborhoods.  it is poorly signed as it makes its way over a street grid, and is very tough to follow.

it seems like Miss. doesn't care much about it, as the last two signs for it to exist were both 1970s standard colored shields, and now both are gone.

[cpzilliacus]

U.S. 29 through the District of Columbia is effectively impossible to follow with the aid of U.S. 29 shields.

[Alps]

US-11 north of Hattiesburg, MS looks like any old road going to some run-down industrial neighborhoods.  it is poorly signed as it makes its way over a street grid, and is very tough to follow.

it seems like Miss. doesn't care much about it, as the last two signs for it to exist were both 1970s standard colored shields, and now both are gone.

That's false - there are plenty of signs up, although old, but not colored-shield old.

[US71]

US-11 north of Hattiesburg, MS looks like any old road going to some run-down industrial neighborhoods.  it is poorly signed as it makes its way over a street grid, and is very tough to follow.

it seems like Miss. doesn't care much about it, as the last two signs for it to exist were both 1970s standard colored shields, and now both are gone.

As of 3 years ago, it was adequately signed, though it isn't through Laurel. I think it goes around on 59, but it's poor;ly posted. It seems to disappear and reappear. I know US 84 goes around Laurel, but I've not checked it out thoroughly. I can tell you most of the good motels and restaurants are on the west side of town on MS 15. Everything else looks like it needs to be bulldozed.

[agentsteel53]

That's false - there are plenty of signs up, although old, but not colored-shield old.

I think it's only about a half-mile or so segment which is so poorly signed that you'll get thrown off US-11 if you don't know where to turn.  generally, yes, the signage is okay.

it is that segment that had the two colored shields as of 2003 or so.  one shield as of 2006.

[Alps]

US-11 north of Hattiesburg, MS looks like any old road going to some run-down industrial neighborhoods.  it is poorly signed as it makes its way over a street grid, and is very tough to follow.

it seems like Miss. doesn't care much about it, as the last two signs for it to exist were both 1970s standard colored shields, and now both are gone.

As of 3 years ago, it was adequately signed, though it isn't through Laurel. I think it goes around on 59, but it's poor;ly posted. It seems to disappear and reappear. I know US 84 goes around Laurel, but I've not checked it out thoroughly. I can tell you most of the good motels and restaurants are on the west side of town on MS 15. Everything else looks like it needs to be bulldozed.

11 does go through Laurel - not only that, but the last blue shield left is (was?) in that particular city. I don't recall how it was signed there, though.

[agentsteel53]

11 does go through Laurel - not only that, but the last blue shield left is (was?) in that particular city. I don't recall how it was signed there, though.

there is a blue cutout in Greenwood.



the 11 in Laurel, I think, refers to an old alignment.