Do T Tails on Commercial Jets look better than the standard ones?

[roadman65]

On commercial airlines and small private planes, the device that controls the pitch or angle of the plane is called an elevator.  It is that small wing looking like thing that is mounted through the tail of the aircraft.  Either the elevator is located passing through underneath the tail itself or through the top of it.  The latter is called a T Tail because it looks like a T from behind the plane.

The T Tails are used on airplanes where the main jet engines are mounted on to the fuselage of the plane rather than the wings.  Boeing 727, DC 9, and MC 80s have the engines toward the back on the side, so the elevator would be behind the exhaust port of the engines resulting in disruption of thrust of the engine.  To compensate, it is necessary to place this part of the plane, that is very important to the flight on top of the tail instead of the bottom.  Planes like the 747 do not have the engines that close to the fuselage, so it does not conflict.

Anyway, on those that have the T Tails, I have always thought the tail looks more cool than that of the traditional ones.  I also like the roof mounted engines as well as the air intake looks real nice almost like a giant Primatine Mist inhaler for asthema.   For those of you who like jets here, which tail is the coolest to you?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Rossiya.tu-154m.ra-85779.arp.jpg  is a photo of what I am talking about.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Empennage is the normal type tail.

[Dr Frankenstein]

I have a totally arbitrary preference for the standard tails. If I want to be more specific, my favourite commercial jet models would mostly be Boeings, especially (in order) the 737, 767, 777 and 747.

I've never flown.

[oscar]

i also have an arbitrary preference, for the most fuel-efficient aircraft designs, so that my ticket prices will look better, and my favorite airlines are more likely to survive.  Is it a coincidence that the T-tail design planes mentioned above are all ancient and out of service (at least for passenger service in First World countries), or being rapidly phased out of service?

The Boeing 717 (related to the old MD-80) also is a T-tail design, with rear fusilage-mounted engines, that still is in service but is no longer in production.  For Hawaiian Airlines' short-haul interisland flights, it seems to work well as an overgrown regional jet.  I also liked the ones used by the late Midwest Airlines, though the wide leather seats (with no middle seats) and the fresh-baked cookies served on board made the difference.

[corco]

I like the look of t-tails, but if you've ever ridden in the last row window seat of a 727 or an MD-80 (I've done both) you know they're no fun to ride in- you have a view of an engine out the window and it's really, really fucking loud. The 727 isn't terrible, but the back row of an MD-80 is hell.

I do like those old birds though- if you aren't in the back they're very comfortable. I got to ride a Delta MD-90 last time I flew and since I rarely fly these days I'd bet that'll be the last time I ride one.  I'd kind of like to fly a DC-9 one last time- Delta still operates them for another year. Maybe I'll sneak on a flight sometime this year, although it looks like Houston is as close to Tucson as they still fly them, so that's probably a no-go.

I also liked the ones used by the late Midwest Airlines, though the wide leather seats (with no middle seats) and the fresh-baked cookies served on board made the difference.

I've flown on those since Frontier absorbed them- I guess I like the E190 for what it is, but I definitely prefer the A318s Frontier used to operate.

[realjd]

CRJ's all have a T-tail. I hate CRJ's. I'll base my preference on this.

I like the look of t-tails, but if you've ever ridden in the last row window seat of a 727 or an MD-80 (I've done both) you know they're no fun to ride in- you have a view of an engine out the window and it's really, really fucking loud. The 727 isn't terrible, but the back row of an MD-80 is hell.

I do like those old birds though- if you aren't in the back they're very comfortable. I got to ride a Delta MD-90 last time I flew and since I rarely fly these days I'd bet that'll be the last time I ride one.  I'd kind of like to fly a DC-9 one last time- Delta still operates them for another year. Maybe I'll sneak on a flight sometime this year, although it looks like Houston is as close to Tucson as they still fly them, so that's probably a no-go.

I believe all of Delta's DC9's are ATL-based (with maybe a few out of DTW). Your best bet to fly one would be to connect through ATL to a mid-sized market. Other than the age, you wouldn't notice a difference inside between them and the MD-88's and MD-90's that DL flies (well, the 3-2 seating swaps sides, but other than that...).

The MD-88's and MD-90's aren't going anywhere. They're everywhere on Delta's domestic fleet and Delta isn't getting rid of them anytime soon. There's rumors that they're going to buy up AirTran's fleet of 717's to replace the DC9's since Southwest doesn't want to maintain a second aircraft type.

Of all the planes I fly regularly, my favorite is probably the 764, followed by the 752.

[corco]

I believe all of Delta's DC9's are ATL-based (with maybe a few out of DTW). Your best bet to fly one would be to connect through ATL to a mid-sized market. Other than the age, you wouldn't notice a difference inside between them and the MD-88's and MD-90's that DL flies (well, the 3-2 seating swaps sides, but other than that...).

It's more "I'd like to fly one one last time, but I'm not spending $400 and flying on four flights to fly to Charlotte and back for no reason"- if they were doing it on a Tucson/Phoenix/El Paso/Albuquerque to hub and then I'd just have to fly back, I'd do it.

It's interesting that the DC-9 base is in Atlanta now- weren't all those old Northwest planes?

CRJ's all have a T-tail. I hate CRJ's. I'll base my preference on this.

I don't mind CRJs for what they are, although I prefer the Q400 for puddle jumping- the view isn't as good but they're quieter and more comfortable, and it is fun watching the landing gear retract

[realjd]

Yes, the DC9's are all former Northwest planes. I suspect that Delta moved the DC9 to ATL because that's where most of their MD88/90's were already. DTW and MSP kept the bulk of Northwest's Airbus fleet (319/320's domestic, 330's international). Since I almost always fly through ATL, I'll only be on an Airbus once or twice a year if that.

For regional jets, I much prefer any Embraer jet over any Canadair jet. I'd even rather fly on one of the tiny ERJ-145's over the bigger CRJ-9, and the bigger ERJ-170 is more comfortable IMO than even some of the smaller mainline aircraft.

It's been ages since I've flown on a turboprop. I've never been on a Q400, but I've heard good things. I used to enjoy the little 10-seater Saabs that would fly around.

[1995hoo]

i also have an arbitrary preference ....

I have an arbitrary preference for the one seen in my avatar (I was in Seat 20D when that video was filmed at Heathrow).

This picture taken earlier that afternoon really gives a good sense of the shape of the delta wing:

[formulanone]

I do like those old birds though- if you aren't in the back they're very comfortable. I got to ride a Delta MD-90 last time I flew and since I rarely fly these days I'd bet that'll be the last time I ride one.  I'd kind of like to fly a DC-9 one last time- Delta still operates them for another year.

The twin-seating arrangement of the DC-9 on the "pilot's left" (not sure how to describe it...port?) has a really narrow footwell for the window-seat passenger, but a much wider bearth for the aisle passenger, due to a weird offset seat post design. (My backpack didn't really fit under the seat.) So choose the aisle seat if you're sure to get that plane with it's 2-3 seating row pattern (like the MD-88).

Flew on them twice last year from Atlanta to Greensboro, but my last trip out there last December used the CRJ900 instead, so they might be deprecating them for good. I have also heard the CRJ200s are about to be put out to pasture...not crazy about the mis-aligned window and the serious lack of legroom (although the exits improve this, and there's been many times I've had an entire row to myself on the little 200's), and my frozen feet if on board for more than 30 minutes.

[agentsteel53]

The twin-seating arrangement of the DC-9 on the "pilot's left" (not sure how to describe it...port?)

colloquially - without knowing actually where the pilot sits - I'd call it "driver's side" and "passenger's side", figuring the listener could draw the analogy.  (and is not British.)

I also would consider unambiguous "left side when facing forward".

formally, "port" is the term, but I am not sure what percentage of the population knows which is port and which is starboard.

[realjd]

Flew on them twice last year from Atlanta to Greensboro, but my last trip out there last December used the CRJ900 instead, so they might be deprecating them for good. I have also heard the CRJ200s are about to be put out to pasture...not crazy about the mis-aligned window and the serious lack of legroom (although the exits improve this, and there's been many times I've had an entire row to myself on the little 200's), and my frozen feet if on board for more than 30 minutes.

Delta hasn't started phasing them out yet. They tend to switch what aircraft serve what cities regularly. Here in MLB, I've flown on anything from a small CRJ-200 to a 757 on the flight to ATL, and from MCO-ATL, which typically has hourly 757 service, I've even flown on a 777 once or twice.

If you're interested, their complete flight schedule for April is here so you can see what aircraft are serving what cities and when:
http://images.delta.com.edgesuite.net/delta/pdfs/flight_schedules.pdf

[kendancy66]

The twin-seating arrangement of the DC-9 on the "pilot's left" (not sure how to describe it...port?)

colloquially - without knowing actually where the pilot sits - I'd call it "driver's side" and "passenger's side", figuring the listener could draw the analogy.  (and is not British.)

I also would consider unambiguous "left side when facing forward".

formally, "port" is the term, but I am not sure what percentage of the population knows which is port and which is starboard.

My way to remember the difference between port and starboard, is that the words port and left have the same number of letters,

[formulanone]

According to Southwest's press release, they also like the 717s because they have a lit of routes that don't require as much seating capacity as their regular crafts. I would assume they also bought AirTran's maintenance crew, spares, facilities, et cetera, so it would be odd to suddenly rid themselves of all that, plus the vaunted location of headquarters at ATL.

[agentsteel53]

My way to remember the difference between port and starboard, is that the words port and left have the same number of letters,

mine too!    generally, it's consonant-vowel-consonant-letter "t" for both.

[J N Winkler]

I am with Oscar on this one--although I grew up in the Air Capital of the World, I have become very unsentimental about aircraft and flying in general after enduring more than a decade of declining seat pitch and now overhead bins which refuse to close because everyone insists on bringing the kitchen sink as carry-on luggage in order to avoid baggage fees.

I do notice the difference between fins and T-tails but I don't fuss about the location and appearance of the control surfaces as long as the aircraft is reasonably thrifty with fuel, cabin air processing is efficient enough that I don't get a cold if some other passenger walks on with the sniffles, the aircraft is rated to handle engine failure in flight, and the pilot has the ability to cope with microbursts, wake turbulence, heavy crosswinds on landing, etc.

[agentsteel53]

I wouldn't even care if the ride were ten times as bumpy as it is now; what's made me completely unsentimental about flying is the TSA.

no no, this being the second Thursday of the month, you have to remove your left shoe using your right hand.

[oscar]

I wouldn't even care if the ride were ten times as bumpy as it is now; what's made me completely unsentimental about flying is the TSA.

no no, this being the second Thursday of the month, you have to remove your left shoe using your right hand.

Yeah, isn't it nice to be a roadgeek, avoiding such crap as much as possible by taking long road trips instead of flying?

[agentsteel53]

Yeah, isn't it nice to be a roadgeek, avoiding such crap as much as possible by taking long road trips instead of flying?

yes indeed.  furthermore, a lot of my trips are to buy or sell highway signs, which I can much easier load into the car and drive (up to about 2500 miles in a weekend) than attempt to fly with.

[realjd]

I wouldn't even care if the ride were ten times as bumpy as it is now; what's made me completely unsentimental about flying is the TSA.

no no, this being the second Thursday of the month, you have to remove your left shoe using your right hand.

A few months ago I had an argument with one of the TSA goons about my "freedom baggie" with my liquids. It was smaller than one quart. He said the rule was a one quart bag. I pointed out that mine was smaller, and thus would hold less liquid. He thought for a minute and told me he'd give me a break and let me keep my toothpaste and shaving cream, but that I may not be so lucky next time.

Pro-tip: 50 mL liquor bottles are less than 3 ounces, and you can fit a good number of them in your freedom baggie

[agentsteel53]

Pro-tip: 50 mL liquor bottles are less than 3 ounces, and you can fit a good number of them in your freedom baggie

I always check my liquids, and generally almost everything in a Standard Black 28. 

I'd rather pay the 20-25 dollars to avoid having to actually be present while the TSA goons scratch their heads wondering why I carry two flashlights.

my carry-on items are my laptop bag and my camera bag, as I like to keep an eye on those. 

as for the booze problem, I've been known to have a drink just before going through security.  a beer in the bathroom stall?  classy!