Arco Going Away?

[kphoger]

I think I often see four grades in Iowa, though my memory is a bit fuzzy and I tend to fill up at the same handful of stations–even though I have family in Iowa, it's usually just a place to pass through on the way to my wife's family in Minnesota.  So, the following may not be 100% correct, but....

87 octane is second-cheapest.
89 octane has 10% ethanol, and is cheapest.
?? octane is second-most expensive.
?? octane is most expensive.
When there are only three grades, mid-grade is only offered with ethanol, not without.

Here's a typical pump:


EDIT:  That might not be the best example, as I seem to recall BP might put ehtanol in all of theirs.  Whatever. 

[realjd]

I think I often see four grades in Iowa, though my memory is a bit fuzzy and I tend to fill up at the same handful of stations–even though I have family in Iowa, it's usually just a place to pass through on the way to my wife's family in Minnesota.  So, the following may not be 100% correct, but....

87 octane is second-cheapest.
89 octane has 10% ethanol, and is cheapest.
?? octane is second-most expensive.
?? octane is most expensive.
When there are only three grades, mid-grade is only offered with ethanol, not without.

Here's a typical pump:


EDIT:  That might not be the best example, as I seem to recall BP might put ehtanol in all of theirs.  Whatever. 

I did a bit more research on the subject. While many gas stations do simply blend regular and premium at the pump like I thought, some (mostly older) stations do indeed have a tank of midgrade gas. Due to supply issues, midgrade was cheaper than regular in parts of the midwest last summer. That supply issue may have had something to do with ethanol, I don't know; I couldn't find specifics. I wish we had 100% gasoline still available here (without paying high markups) like they do in Iowa!

[Alps]

If you lose 2 mpg out of 30, over the course of let's say 840 miles you'd use 30 gallons instead of 28. So your price difference would have to be 28/30 to make it worth it, which the example above isn't (23/24.2). If it's 1.5 mpg out of 30, maybe you break even. I think you'd have to be an engine technician to figure it out.

[bulkyorled]

Oh well about BP/Arco. In Burbank and Glendale CA a few of them have changed to United Oil. Price structure is basically the same only they don't wanna ding me 50 cents to use my debit card and it seems to be better gas.

[agentsteel53]

Here's a typical pump:
[image of $2.29 gas]

I wanna know where that is typical!!

seriously, that is likely be a 5 or so year old image.  I remember that pattern in Iowa and Nebraska as well... the "mid-grade", usually 89 octane, gas with ethanol was the cheapest.

it also gave me 4mpg worse.  fuckers.

[Henry]

Well, their gas was crummy, so I won't be missing them.

Which is funny because it comes from the same refineries as any other gasoline.

Gas is gas.

Yep.  Gas is gas.  Unless they're watering it down.  I've also heard to avoid filling up right after the tanks have been filled, as sediment will have been unsettled and floating around for a bit.  Don't know if that's true, though.  The main thing to check is the octane rating and additives, not the brand name sticker on the sign.  And, frankly, I still fill up with the ethanol-added gas in Iowa just because it's cheaper than regular, even though I suspect it's actually worse for my car's performance (I do not drive a 'performance car', BTW).

Well, gas may be gas, but not all brands are created equal. Which is why people prefer one brand over another, mainly for affordability and optimal performance. Thus, some people prefer Shell, others prefer Mobil/Exxon, and a few more prefer BP, and so on. It's no different from Coke vs. Pepsi vs. Dr. Pepper, or Ford vs. Chevy vs. Toyota.

[kphoger]

Well, their gas was crummy, so I won't be missing them.

Which is funny because it comes from the same refineries as any other gasoline.

Gas is gas.

Yep.  Gas is gas.  Unless they're watering it down.  I've also heard to avoid filling up right after the tanks have been filled, as sediment will have been unsettled and floating around for a bit.  Don't know if that's true, though.  The main thing to check is the octane rating and additives, not the brand name sticker on the sign.  And, frankly, I still fill up with the ethanol-added gas in Iowa just because it's cheaper than regular, even though I suspect it's actually worse for my car's performance (I do not drive a 'performance car', BTW).

Well, gas may be gas, but not all brands are created equal. Which is why people prefer one brand over another, mainly for affordability and optimal performance. Thus, some people prefer Shell, others prefer Mobil/Exxon, and a few more prefer BP, and so on. It's no different from Coke vs. Pepsi vs. Dr. Pepper, or Ford vs. Chevy vs. Toyota.

No, Chevrolet and Toyota make different cars.  Pepsi and Dr Pepper are different drinks.  But, other than additives, Shell and Arco don't make different gasoline.

[Brandon]

Well, their gas was crummy, so I won't be missing them.

Which is funny because it comes from the same refineries as any other gasoline.

Gas is gas.

Yep.  Gas is gas.  Unless they're watering it down.  I've also heard to avoid filling up right after the tanks have been filled, as sediment will have been unsettled and floating around for a bit.  Don't know if that's true, though.  The main thing to check is the octane rating and additives, not the brand name sticker on the sign.  And, frankly, I still fill up with the ethanol-added gas in Iowa just because it's cheaper than regular, even though I suspect it's actually worse for my car's performance (I do not drive a 'performance car', BTW).

Well, gas may be gas, but not all brands are created equal. Which is why people prefer one brand over another, mainly for affordability and optimal performance. Thus, some people prefer Shell, others prefer Mobil/Exxon, and a few more prefer BP, and so on. It's no different from Coke vs. Pepsi vs. Dr. Pepper, or Ford vs. Chevy vs. Toyota.

Sorry, but that would be a valid comparison if gasoline were made different ways, or if Pepsi and Coke were made by the same factory, but it isn't.  Gasoline is usually refined by one, maybe two refiners in an area, using the same methodology, and sold to many differing gas stations that all have different "brands".  Drive past your local refinery and see the variety of trucks there to fill up and transport to the stations.  Also, note the "brand" of the truck delivering gasoline to your favorite station.  Odd are, it is from a transport company.

[bulkyorled]

Sorry, but that would be a valid comparison if gasoline were made different ways, or if Pepsi and Coke were made by the same factory, but it isn't.  Gasoline is usually refined by one, maybe two refiners in an area, using the same methodology, and sold to many differing gas stations that all have different "brands".  Drive past your local refinery and see the variety of trucks there to fill up and transport to the stations.  Also, note the "brand" of the truck delivering gasoline to your favorite station.  Odd are, it is from a transport company.

Thats exactly what I was thinking but you said it way better than I could have. They sure got people snowed when it comes to this don't they.  No wonder an oil company is the richest in the world, you sell it for $5 a gallon and say it'll make your car run slightly better than the $3 kind across the street and you got people sold.

[realjd]

Well, gas may be gas, but not all brands are created equal. Which is why people prefer one brand over another, mainly for affordability and optimal performance. Thus, some people prefer Shell, others prefer Mobil/Exxon, and a few more prefer BP, and so on. It's no different from Coke vs. Pepsi vs. Dr. Pepper, or Ford vs. Chevy vs. Toyota.

When Shell puts a barrel of refined gasoline into one of the pipelines, they don't wait for it to appear on the other end. The get to claim one immediately. The result of that is that Shell gas is just as likely to be from a BP or a Chevron or an ExxonMobile refinery as it is a Shell refinery. The gas brand are all essentially interchangeable because they're selling the exact same product.

[blawp]

Working in oil and gas, I know the above is not true. Gasoline from the refinery is given proprietary additives to bring the final formulation up to Company spec.

[realjd]

Working in oil and gas, I know the above is not true. Gasoline from the refinery is given proprietary additives to bring the final formulation up to Company spec.

At the terminal, right? The underlying gasoline is still the same brand-to-brand.

[Brandon]

Working in oil and gas, I know the above is not true. Gasoline from the refinery is given proprietary additives to bring the final formulation up to Company spec.

It's only given so-called additives to make a claim.  Otherwise, the EPA mandated detergents are more than enough.  Gas is still gas, and if your car only needs 87 octane, you use 87 octane.  89 or 91 will not do anything else for your car unless the manufacturer recommends it.
BTW, I work in the environmental end of the business.

[blawp]

Well, the less detergent in the gas, the higher the number of carbon deposits from incomplete combustion. I wouldn't say the EPA minimums are "more than enough" because car engines still accumulate deposits in the modern era.

[blawp]

Environmental side? I'm not sure what that entails. CEMs or what?

[Brandon]

Environmental side? I'm not sure what that entails. CEMs or what?

I clean up the messes.  And yes, gas is gas at its core regardless of any silly additives.  It's just mostly benzene, ethylbenzene, toulene, and xylenes with some naphthalene on the side.  That's basically what you need to operate your car.

Carbon deposits aren't only taken care of detergents, but also by the oxygenates in the fuel.   It's the oxygenates that make it burn cleaner, not the silly additives.  I've rarely used a so-called major station and have had no loss in power, no loss in fuel economy, and no problems.  It's all advertising.

[blawp]

Gasoline is mostly BTEX? No. It's mostly straight chain hydrocarbon with minimal aromatics. And the incomplete combustion is not cured by the detergents, rather the accumulated carbon deposits are. The incomplete combustion that causes the deposits can be a result of a number of issues, including gasoline impurities, poor airflow to the engine, bad fuel injectors, bad O2 sensors, mistimed engine, etc.

[blawp]

Also, why do you trash California so much? Haven't you seen the VMS signs that say "Don't Trash California?"

[agentsteel53]

Also, why do you trash California so much? Haven't you seen the VMS signs that say "Don't Trash California?"

it's either that or he drives drunk, kidnaps small children, or causes RVs to tip over from high winds.  if he's gonna disobey a VMS, it may as well be that one.

[blawp]

Well if he's driving drunk I'm calling 911.

[The High Plains Traveler]

Gasoline is mostly BTEX? No. It's mostly straight chain hydrocarbon with minimal aromatics. And the incomplete combustion is not cured by the detergents, rather the accumulated carbon deposits are. The incomplete combustion that causes the deposits can be a result of a number of issues, including gasoline impurities, poor airflow to the engine, bad fuel injectors, bad O2 sensors, mistimed engine, etc.

My only quibble with your explanation is that many of those alkanes are branched. BTEX is not a major component but it's dispositive of gasoline contamination in soil and groundwater. That's because these are more water soluble (especially benzene) than heavier hydrocarbons. Diesel has very little in the way of BTEX.

[Mdcastle]

I did a double take the first couple of times I saw an Iowa gas pump. In Minnesota it's $, $$, $$$, all with ethanol. In Iowa it's $$, $(Ethanol) $$$. The other thing is some Iowa stations in the boondocks will not have premium gasoline. Premium is recomended for my vehicle for best performance, but they didn't have it in West Union, they had $$, $(no ethanaol)