Dear WisDOT, roundabouts have their benefits, but...

[Crazy Volvo Guy]

...the concept can most certainly be overdone.

I mean, seriously, WisDOT?  FOUR consecutive roundabouts?  Please put down the crack pipe.

Discuss.

[kphoger]

Much better than four consecutive stoplights. 

[hbelkins]

Much better than four consecutive stoplights. 

[kphoger]

Ow, my head

[DaBigE]

If you don't like what WisDOT is doing, I'd suggest never getting off the highway when going thru Carmel, IN (aka the Roundabout Capital of the US).

Even if I wasn't one many engineers on the 41 corridor project, I'd still have no problem with four or more in a row (as I'm sure you're aware that this isn't the only location along the 41 corridor with more than two roundabouts in a series).  When properly designed, roundabout corridors are very effective (see Vail, CO or Avon, CO).  As kphoger also said, IMO, they're MUCH better than consecutive traffic signals.  The only problem I have is with the drivers who don't know what a YIELD sign means.

[J N Winkler]

The original concept for the US 41 corridor expansion (a copy of which I downloaded about eight years ago) called for traffic signals instead of roundabouts.  I think the current one is an improvement.

[SEWIGuy]

Much better than four consecutive stoplights. 

Not if they are timed correctly.

[J N Winkler]

The issue with stoplight timing is that progression is attainable only in certain limited cases.

BTW, if you count the roundabout along Breezewood Lane just to the east of the US 41 interchange, there are actually five roundabouts in total.

Was it ever seriously considered at one point to combine the ramp terminal and frontage road roundabouts so that there would be just two roundabouts associated with the US 41 interchange?  The real difficulty with this interchange (at least for traffic crossing US 41) is not that roundabouts are used instead of traffic signals, but rather that the frontage roads and ramps intersect separately.

[hbelkins]

Much better than four consecutive stoplights. 

Not if they are timed correctly.

[kphoger]

Yeah, WisDOT probably realized after doing their studies that timed lights would be better, but than said, 'Eyaahh, what the heck, we'll just throw the roundabouts in there anyway for the fun of it, because, you know, we get a good chuckle when people blame us for traffic problems'.

         

[AsphaltPlanet]

Roundabouts offer increased capacity and safety compared to traffic signals.

Respectfully, I have found that the only people who seem to have a problem with roundabouts are those who either can't figure out how to drive through them, or those who fear any kind of change.

[mgk920]

*LET A LOCAL CHIME IN HERE, OK?*

The US 41/Breezewood-Bell interchange in Neenah, WI (about ten minutes south of Appleton) was a total clusterf*** in its previous life.  Four signalized intersections in very close proximity, two frontage roads and the two interchange ramps.  Breesewood Ln/Bell St (the street changes its name at the interchange) is a very busy street.  The intersections ALL had very high numbers of vehicles making turns and traffic backups were very common, even after midnight.  Often, to go from SB US 41 to NB Harrison St (the east frontage/access street), I had to stop twice at red lights in that mess and to turn onto NB Harrison St often required waiting two and even three cycles.

Since the rebuild, even though traffic counts are about the same as before, it is like 'where did all of the traffic congestion go?'.  About four out of every fives times that I go through there now, I get though with zero stops and delays, only having to slow down to make the turns.  The difference is like that between night and day and it is working well beyond anyone's wildest dreams..

There is also an older roundabout on Breezewood Ln at a local street intersection several blocks west of the interchange area.

BTW, before WisDOT decided to go with the roundabouts there, their favored concept was for the interchange ramp intersections to be redone as a SPUI.

Also, last year, WisDOT redid US 41/9th Ave in Oshkosh with a similar four roundabouts - and with similar results.

Mike

[agentsteel53]

Respectfully, I have found that the only people who seem to have a problem with roundabouts are those who either can't figure out how to drive through them, or those who fear any kind of change.

or those who drive in the vicinity of those who can't figure out how to drive through them.  so many times people either do not put their turn signal on when exiting, or worse, they put their turn signal on as though to exit and then keep going ... so basically one has to guess if you're going to intersect or not with traffic already in the roundabout.  so either you risk getting plowed, or you wait at the entrance forever.

[AsphaltPlanet]

Yeah, I lived in Waterloo, ON which has tons of roundabouts, and honestly, that wasn't really a problem here.  Generally, people figured them out pretty quickly.  I did once watch someone go 'round the wrong way once.  But I have seen some pretty terrible behaviour at traffic signals and stop signs as well.

[kphoger]

Respectfully, I have found that the only people who seem to have a problem with roundabouts are those who either can't figure out how to drive through them, or those who fear any kind of change.

or those who drive in the vicinity of those who can't figure out how to drive through them.  so many times people either do not put their turn signal on when exiting, or worse, they put their turn signal on as though to exit and then keep going ... so basically one has to guess if you're going to intersect or not with traffic already in the roundabout.  so either you risk getting plowed, or you wait at the entrance forever.

Correct signalling procedures:

To turn right, use your right signal.
To go straight through, do not signal upon entry, but use your right signal to exit the roundabout.
To turn left, use your left signal to enter the roundabout, turn it off at the first leg, then use your right signal to exit.

[SEWIGuy]

Roundabouts offer increased capacity and safety compared to traffic signals.

Respectfully, I have found that the only people who seem to have a problem with roundabouts are those who either can't figure out how to drive through them, or those who fear any kind of change.

I fully understand why they are used.  As a driver, I would rather go through four timed stop lights than four straight traffic circles.

And I most certainly know *how* to use them. 

[1995hoo]

Respectfully, I have found that the only people who seem to have a problem with roundabouts are those who either can't figure out how to drive through them, or those who fear any kind of change.

or those who drive in the vicinity of those who can't figure out how to drive through them.  so many times people either do not put their turn signal on when exiting, or worse, they put their turn signal on as though to exit and then keep going ... so basically one has to guess if you're going to intersect or not with traffic already in the roundabout.  so either you risk getting plowed, or you wait at the entrance forever.

Correct signalling procedures:

To turn right, use your right signal.
To go straight through, do not signal upon entry, but use your right signal to exit the roundabout.
To turn left, use your left signal to enter the roundabout, turn it off at the first leg, then use your right signal to exit.

It really bugs me how many people don't know this, but in at least some states the DOTs don't advocate this practice–Virginia's DOT, for example, says not to signal until you signal right to exit. Problem is, that leaves the entering motorist guessing as to your intentions. I learned to drive through roundabouts in the UK, so I learned the method you describe (flip-flopped for left-side driving, of course), and it quickly made me appreciate the benefit of the roundabout as working at its best when nobody has to guess at what anybody else is going to do. If used properly, the signal from the driver already on the roundabout tells you whether you need to yield or whether you can go. Problem is, the average American driver doesn't think about such things and likely doesn't care.

Roundabouts aren't hard to deal with at all, but they're an example of one of the reasons why I often think states ought to require that people re-take the knowledge test every ten years or so. There are enough changes in recommended safe-driving practices, vehicle technology, etc., that a refresher is useful (I'm amazed how many people I know think that when the antilock brakes start pulsing it means that something's wrong, for example), and I also think that nowadays people move around enough that it might be beneficial to re-test them on local laws. For example, I know a guy whose high-school age daughter is learning to drive in California. Their DMV's instructional book apparently teaches that the left lane is the "fast cruising" lane. WTF!!! My friend tried to tell me that that's a "national standard," to which I replied "BS."

[1995hoo]

Roundabouts offer increased capacity and safety compared to traffic signals.

Respectfully, I have found that the only people who seem to have a problem with roundabouts are those who either can't figure out how to drive through them, or those who fear any kind of change.

I fully understand why they are used.  As a driver, I would rather go through four timed stop lights than four straight traffic circles.

And I most certainly know *how* to use them. 

But this is not a thread about four consecutive "traffic circles."

[NE2]

A roundabout is a type of traffic circle.

[texaskdog]

Good tribute to Clark Griswold

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iAgX6qlJEMc

Or Yes

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xql99I1VSdI

[SEWIGuy]

Roundabouts offer increased capacity and safety compared to traffic signals.

Respectfully, I have found that the only people who seem to have a problem with roundabouts are those who either can't figure out how to drive through them, or those who fear any kind of change.

I fully understand why they are used.  As a driver, I would rather go through four timed stop lights than four straight traffic circles.

And I most certainly know *how* to use them. 

But this is not a thread about four consecutive "traffic circles."

Thanks...sorry to misspeak.

[agentsteel53]

(I'm amazed how many people I know think that when the antilock brakes start pulsing it means that something's wrong, for example)

there is something wrong.  you're losing traction.  when you regain it, evaluate what happened, and possibly change your driving behavior to accommodate the road conditions.

[hobsini2]

Roundabouts offer increased capacity and safety compared to traffic signals.

Respectfully, I have found that the only people who seem to have a problem with roundabouts are those who either can't figure out how to drive through them, or those who fear any kind of change.

I fully understand why they are used.  As a driver, I would rather go through four timed stop lights than four straight traffic circles.

And I most certainly know *how* to use them. 

But this is not a thread about four consecutive "traffic circles."

Going to be slightly off topic but:

Actually, about 4 years ago here in Illinois, the "Left Lane Law" was signed into law. The law was specific about the traffic in the farthest left lane needed to be faster than the traffic in the center or right lanes on the expressways and tollways. Which means that if you are going the speed limit in the left lane but cars are passing you on the right, YOU are at fault not the cars passing you. I have this argument with my mother all the time. Left lane IS for passing safely. Yes there are morons who drive recklessly in the left lane but the slow driver in the left lane is just as much a hazard. A bit of a side note. I have yet to see the Left Lane Law enforced by state police.

[kphoger]

Going to be slightly off topic but:
"Left Lane Law

Read:  Completely off topic, not the slightest bit related.

Or am I missing something?

[1995hoo]

(I'm amazed how many people I know think that when the antilock brakes start pulsing it means that something's wrong, for example)

there is something wrong.  you're losing traction.  when you regain it, evaluate what happened, and possibly change your driving behavior to accommodate the road conditions.

Fair enough. You know what I meant–they think something's wrong with their brakes and they release the pedal, which is exactly the wrong thing to do.