Pointless routes

[Terry Shea]

I'm not sure that there's really a need for both I-70 and I-670 in Kansas City.  One just parallels the other for a few miles and the numbering seems strange.  You'd think I-70 would be the straight thru route, but it's not.  Likewise you'd think I-670 would be given a different number, since it's such a short straight route.  Even 3-digit routes usually loop around a city, not spur straight through the heart of town for about 3 miles.  The whole setup seems odd.  It's almost like it's one highway with I-670 serving as the "express lanes" and I-70 serving "local" lanes, just with about a half mile wider gap than you'd normally see along with streets and buildings in between.

[Revive 755]

I-180- Should not be an Interstate designation, probably just a PA 147 extension.

Until it ties into an extended I-99.

I-283- Why?

Why not?  It connects two 2di's and completes an eastern bypass of Harrisburg.  I could though see renumbering it to I-183 and replacing PA 283 to Lancaster.

Business I-83- Only instance that PA does this with an Interstate.  Why stick out?

Didn't I-83 used to have a parallel US 111 that was decommissioned? Other than I-78, I don't believe any other 2di's in Pennsylvania run along former US Route alignments.

Pennsylvania could always add a few more business loops, like a BL 70 for Washington (using Chestnut St, the Lincoln-College one-way pair, and PA 136), a BL 78 for Hamburg,  BL 81 through Carlisle. and probably a few for I-99.

[mightyace]

I-180- Should not be an Interstate designation, probably just a PA 147 extension.

Until it ties into an extended I-99.

Before the I-180 designation, the road was simply PA 147 to the US 220 North Halls-Pennsdale exit.  After that it was simply US 220.  Both US 220 and PA 147 were signed as North going to that exit.  So, when you went toward Williamsport, you went from North PA 147 to South US 220 and vice versa.

My educated guess is that the powers that be in that area wanted a single route from I-80 to Williamsport.

In any case, odd starting digit auxilliaries only need to connect to another interstate at one end.  I-176 in PA goes from it's parent to ending at US 422.  Alabama I-759, South Dakota I-190, only connect with another interstate at one end. I-390 in New York was the same way at its south end until I-86 was created.  So, I don't see the problem here.

[PAHighways]

I-180- Should not be an Interstate designation, probably just a PA 147 extension.

It already was before I-180 was signed.  I don't see a problem with giving Williamsport a spur off I-80.

I-283- Why?

Follows the Interstate numbering plan in an even digit route ending at another Interstate.

Business I-83- Only instance that PA does this with an Interstate.  Why stick out?

The former route through York was decommissioned completely, so an Interstate Business Loop was the simplest choice to keep a north-south route in the city.  This won't be the only one in Pennsylvania once I-376 replaces PA 60 as Business PA 60 will become IBL-376.

[74/171FAN]

from PAHighways 

Quote from: njroadhorse on March 11, 2009, 05:07:21 PM
Business I-83- Only instance that PA does this with an Interstate.  Why stick out?

The former route through York was decommissioned completely, so an Interstate Business Loop was the simplest choice to keep a north-south route in the city.  This won't be the only one in Pennsylvania once I-376 replaces PA 60 as Business PA 60 will become IBL-376.

Business I-83 could easily be PA 111(as US 111 used it anyhow) and Business I-376 could just be PA 60. MD 3 Business in Glen Burnie also should just be an extension of MD 3.  However, I-40 CONN in NC is extremely pointless as US 117 could esily take over I-40 CONN and multiplex with I-40 from I-40 CONN to the US 117 exit in the Warsaw area.  Current US 117 through Warsaw would be US 117 Business.

[akotchi]

from 74/171FAN
MD 3 Business in Glen Burnie also should just be an extension of MD 3.

MD 3 Business does not even connect with MD 3 any longer, since I-97 overtook it.  It should be renumbered as another state route.

[PAHighways]

Business I-83 could easily be PA 111(as US 111 used it anyhow) and Business I-376 could just be PA 60.

Why use the PA 111 designation for a five-mile-long route when IBL-83 does a fine job as it is?

No need to move PA 60 back to its former route when it will be truncated at US 22/US 30 and the other segment near Sharon will become a PA x18.

[Revive 755]

The only state highway in Missouri I can think of as truly useless is Spur 185:  A state highway to a subdivision.  If it connected to another bridge across the Meramec, I would consider it useful, but right now it should be turned over to Franklin County - which has a somewhat decent system of county roads unlike a lot of Missouri counties.

A lot of the other lettered routes in Missouri just need to be extended to another state road, and they'd be much more useful.

[74/171FAN]

from akotchi: from 74/171FAN
MD 3 Business in Glen Burnie also should just be an extension of MD 3.

MD 3 Business does not even connect with MD 3 any longer, since I-97 overtook it.  It should be renumbered as another state route.

MD 3 could be multiplexed with I-97 up to MD 3 Business before taking it over.

from PAHighways:--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote from: 74/171FAN on Today at 07:46:23 PM
Business I-83 could easily be PA 111(as US 111 used it anyhow) and Business I-376 could just be PA 60.

Why use the PA 111 designation for a five-mile-long route when IBL-83 does a fine job as it is?

No need to move PA 60 back to its former route when it will be truncated at US 22/US 30 and the other segment near Sharon will become a PA x18.

I believe that all green/business interstates are pointless as most are multiplexes with US Routes throughout and that(possibly biased because VA does not have green interstates) most are not even freeways but are surface streets which should really have a different number(and if it is important enough for to be a green interstate it must have some number).

[PAHighways]

I believe that all green/business interstates are pointless as most are multiplexes with US Routes throughout and that(possibly biased because VA does not have green interstates) most are not even freeways but are surface streets which should really have a different number(and if it is important enough for to be a green interstate it must have some number).

They are not supposed to be limited-access routes but loops like any auxiliary route.  If signing a route with a green Interstate shield is pointless, then using any state route number for a small run would also be pointless.

[froggie]

The premise between the "green Interstate" routes is that they are business routes through the town whereas the Interstate bypasses the town.  Same premise as for any business route.  And as Jeff said there is no requirement for business routes to be limited access.

[Terry Shea]

The reason I-670 was built is because of substandard geometry on I-70...in particular tight curves and a single eastbound lane at the interchnage with US 24 West and the Fairfax Trafficway (Exit 423C-D), as well as a lack of shoulders on the "Intercity Viaduct" (between US 24 West and I-35 South).  So I-670 was built to bring a modern 6-lane connection into the south side of downtown from the west.

So why was the direct, through route given the I-670 designation instead of I-70?

[WillWeaverRVA]

VA 157 in Henrico County would be considered a "'pointless route' ROUTING".  It should only follow Gaskins Rd and Hungary Rd(don't know how important this road is though) as both are more direct to US 33 from VA 6 and do not travel through residential areas compared to Springfield Rd.

Hungary Rd is a fairly busy artery between VA 157 and US 33. It quickly loses importance east of US 33. However, routing VA 157 along Hungary would create a directional issue (granted, it could be worse - VA 157 currently has a segment where the route is going in the opposite direction from how it is signed).

Gaskins Rd is built to fairly high standards and would easily make a good primary route corridor.

[74/171FAN]

from Synthetic Dreamer: Quote from: 74/171FAN on March 11, 2009, 03:45:25 PM
VA 157 in Henrico County would be considered a "'pointless route' ROUTING".  It should only follow Gaskins Rd and Hungary Rd(don't know how important this road is though) as both are more direct to US 33 from VA 6 and do not travel through residential areas compared to Springfield Rd.

Hungary Rd is a fairly busy artery between VA 157 and US 33. It quickly loses importance east of US 33. However, routing VA 157 along Hungary would create a directional issue (granted, it could be worse - VA 157 currently has a segment where the route is going in the opposite direction from how it is signed).

Gaskins Rd is built to fairly high standards and would easily make a good primary route corridor.

Well VA 157 could be signed east-west north of I-64 if not east of Springfield Rd and Hungary Rd doesn't go very far south

[Terry Shea]

Probably because I-70 existed 25 years before I-670 did...

That may be, but most people traveling through town probably think I-70 is the most direct route when in fact I-670 is.  You'd think they would have changed the routing of the 2 highways.

[Sykotyk]

Well, when you head east, there's a brief stretch of I-670 in Kansas City where you're forced onto one lane (near I-35) to stay on I-670. That's probably the reason. And I figure, mostly, it is to keep the uninformed on I-70 that has, although still a bottleneck, much easier a time handling the traffic than I-670 would through town.

And yes, I was one of those that the first time through town never looked at the map to realize how I-670 interacted with I-70 through downtown.

Sykotyk

[Terry Shea]

Well, when you head east, there's a brief stretch of I-670 in Kansas City where you're forced onto one lane (near I-35) to stay on I-670. That's probably the reason. And I figure, mostly, it is to keep the uninformed on I-70 that has, although still a bottleneck, much easier a time handling the traffic than I-670 would through town.

And yes, I was one of those that the first time through town never looked at the map to realize how I-670 interacted with I-70 through downtown.

Sykotyk

I wonder how I-670 ever got an interstate designation then if some of it is only 1 lane.  Weird.

[ComputerGuy]

I got one from Western WA: SR 529 from Marysville to I-5...just take I-5 and add 2 ramps and SR 529 isn't needed.

[corco]

SR 529 is great- it's a lot easier to get from downtown Marysville to the Port of Everett via SR 529 then to take SR 528 to I-5 to SR 529.

It's not a route of important statewide significance, but as a local freight corridor that stretch is highly valuable

[ComputerGuy]

Hmm...it also costs a lot to fix those bridges..

[corco]

Yeah...most bridges in Washington State are state maintained and funded even if they don't have a state highway designation

As far as I can tell the only truly useless SR in Washington state is SR 181

[ComputerGuy]

Like the Manette Bridge in Bremerton..

[Norn-Iron]

Okay a non-american road here...

The A8 (M) in Northern Ireland, probably the most pointless motorway ever. The mile-long doesn't even connect to another motorway it connects to 2 multi-purpose roads...

[FLRoads]

I've gone through this thread and I do not think anyone has mentioned U.S. 311 in North Carolina. Thanks to truncations over the years, the route has become and orphan completely severed from its parent route and has no interaction with its siblings. Plus given the fact that it is an "intrastate" route makes it that much more of a pointless route. Given its current routing, it really acts as a sort of western loop for nearby U.S. 220 (Future I-73/I-74), serving the cities of High Point and Winston-Salem while U.S. 220 serves Greensboro. And how has it survived the gavels of AASHTO since it is definitely less than 300 miles in length (I am positive it doesn't even stretch over 100 miles)? My hunch is once Interstate 74 comes to fruition (if/when) we may see the end of this U.S. highway, as I really see no use for it.

[Michael]

US 220 doesn't reach it's parent or siblings either.  It ends in Waverly, NY.  I have read that it was once planned to extend north to meet US 20.  See  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._Route_220.