It's Official in L.A. - It's the [number here] Freeway

[flowmotion]

Are there any Nimitz Freeway or Eastshore Freeway signs anywhere?

Offhand, I can't think of any. There might have been some mileage signs that referred to the Nimitz & a reassurance sign which said Eastshore around Ashby Street. But no BGSs in my memory.

On the other hand, the Warren Fwy (CA-13) is still fully signed from I-580 MacArthur. New reflective-style exit number signs in the SB direction even.

[myosh_tino]

Thanks. I'm sure the traffic reporters used "Stevens Creek Fwy" to ID the new section as well, for a while. Although, it's odd to have Stevens Creek Freeway run perpendicular to Stevens Creek Boulevard, so it's probably a good thing it didn't stick.

Actually, the reason why that section of CA-85 was called the Stevens Creek Freeway was because it roughly parallels a creek called Stevens Creek.  Lately, whenever a traffic reporter refers to route 85 by name, they typically use West Valley Freeway over Stevens Creek Freeway however, 99% of the time, traffic reporters use the route number.

[TheStranger]

Are there any Nimitz Freeway or Eastshore Freeway signs anywhere?

Offhand, I can't think of any. There might have been some mileage signs that referred to the Nimitz & a reassurance sign which said Eastshore around Ashby Street. But no BGSs in my memory.

A slight tangent:

I was just reading a thread at another website discussing whether SFO or OAK was the more convenient Bay Area airport...

http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/general_aviation/read.main/5572271/

Nimitz Freeway name used in several posts!

I've always found its presence in regular conversation fascinating given its paucity of signage over the years, even as fewer signs in recent times mention the trio of Bayshore/Eastshore/MacArthur (all names that existed prior to the 1958 christening of then-Route 17 as Nimitz).

[Occidental Tourist]

I've always liked the names, but I agree that recent freeway naming kind of tarnished it.  Not just things like Gardena Freeway, but when politicians (who weren't former Presidents, Supreme Court Justices, or war heroes) started getting freeways named after them, that killed it for me.  The most glaring example is the Glenn Anderson Freeway (105).  Glenn Anderson was a congressman who was very good at getting pork for building California freeways, but faithful sucking at the government teat shouldn't really be a qualification for getting a freeway named after you. 

I also understand that a local county supervisor, Sig Sanchez, managed to get a portion of 101 near Gilroy named after him.  That's sort of the icing on the "freeway names don't mean much anymore" cake.

[TheStranger]

The most glaring example is the Glenn Anderson Freeway (105).  Glenn Anderson was a congressman who was very good at getting pork for building California freeways, but faithful sucking at the government teat shouldn't really be a qualification for getting a freeway named after you. 

Was it named after him while he was still alive?  He DID specifically advocate that project.  BUT...the route had been the "Century Freeway" in planning for years and I don't think either name became super-commonly used, as this was already deep in the number-emphasis era.

[DTComposer]

The KNX traffic report on my way home used names as often, if not more so, than numbers. Long Beach, Santa Ana, Pomona, Santa Monica, San Diego. Most used numbers right after, as in "on the Long Beach Freeway, 710 north at Imperial Highway..." The only number without name was I-605 (seeing as how San Gabriel River Freeway is a bit lengthy).

Was it named after him while he was still alive?  He DID specifically advocate that project.  BUT...the route had been the "Century Freeway" in planning for years and I don't think either name became super-commonly used, as this was already deep in the number-emphasis era.

"

I hear Century Freeway used some, Foothill Freeway a little more...but it does seem like the freeways with destination-city names are used the most.

[TheStranger]

I hear Century Freeway used some, Foothill Freeway a little more...but it does seem like the freeways with destination-city names are used the most.

Thanks for the update on radio-report usage!  How is Route 91 referred to in reports?

[Occidental Tourist]

The most glaring example is the Glenn Anderson Freeway (105).  Glenn Anderson was a congressman who was very good at getting pork for building California freeways, but faithful sucking at the government teat shouldn't really be a qualification for getting a freeway named after you. 

Was it named after him while he was still alive?  He DID specifically advocate that project.  BUT...the route had been the "Century Freeway" in planning for years and I don't think either name became super-commonly used, as this was already deep in the number-emphasis era.

He advocated for it and they named it after him shortly after he died.  Although it was in the 20-30 years of planning stages called the Century Freeway, I believe it opened as the Glenn Anderson Freeway.

A lot of traffic reports still refer to it as the Century Freeway, and the only official acknowledgment of its name, besides the legislative bill itself, are some BGS along the route, usually after the pull-throughs at freeway junctions.

[cpzilliacus]

I hear Century Freeway used some, Foothill Freeway a little more...but it does seem like the freeways with destination-city names are used the most.

Thanks for the update on radio-report usage!  How is Route 91 referred to in reports?

I've usually heard it called "The 91," at least on KNX traffic reports.

Remember that Ca. 91 has three different names - from west to east they are:

Gardena Freeway
Artesia Freeway
Riverside Freeway

And then there are the Ca. 91 Express lanes in Orange County.

[andy3175]

In addition to calling 91 as 91 or Riverside Freeway (don't hear Artesia or Gardena Freeway, but those names come up on occasion), KNX also calls 91 the Santa Ana Canyon for the portion that runs through Anaheim Hills to Corona. This includes the Express Lanes and is one of the busiest sections of 91.

Regards,
Andy

[DTComposer]

Gardena Freeway
Artesia Freeway
Riverside Freeway

And then there are the Ca. 91 Express lanes in Orange County.

You'll sometimes hear Artesia Freeway, but I don't think I've ever heard Gardena Freeway. The naming of the Artesia Freeway makes sense since it parallels/supplants Artesia Boulevard, but the use of Artesia as a control city on pull-through signs is, IMO, useless. Arteisa (the city) has about 16,000 people, no appreciable landmarks...Cerritos, Bellflower...many other better choices for that.

[Occidental Tourist]

Gardena Freeway
Artesia Freeway
Riverside Freeway

And then there are the Ca. 91 Express lanes in Orange County.

You'll sometimes hear Artesia Freeway, but I don't think I've ever heard Gardena Freeway. The naming of the Artesia Freeway makes sense since it parallels/supplants Artesia Boulevard, but the use of Artesia as a control city on pull-through signs is, IMO, useless. Arteisa (the city) has about 16,000 people, no appreciable landmarks...Cerritos, Bellflower...many other better choices for that.

Don't forget it has two -- count'em -- two exits off the 91.

[Desert Man]

I find it amusing for the informal yet more popular way of naming freeways in the L.A. metro area surely caught on. Naming freeways after someone or anything (i.e. "the Christopher Columbus Intercontinental") is a mouthful for the news media to write or speak when making reports on them. I still have Californians say "freeway" more than of "tollway", don't hear much of a "turnpike" where those kinds of roads are rare in my state, and instead of "highway" more often than most regionalisms in the US.

[Interstatefan78]

So even though I will (as a confirmed East Coast guy) continue to write "I-405," "U.S. 101," "I-5," and "Ca. 91," I think the Times is making the right call.

This change is not about using the definite article with route numbers or omitting the system designator.  Instead, it is about not referring to the freeways by their traditional names--Hollywood Freeway, San Diego Freeway, Colorado Freeway, etc.

There are some pros and cons to the traditionalist argument.  Pro:  names are arguably more stable.  The Harbor Freeway has always been the Harbor Freeway, despite being Route 11 for decades, and now Route 110 (I-110 south and Calif. 110 north).  Con:  names are not always stable.  Cases in point:  Colorado Freeway (now part of the Foothill Freeway), Los Angeles River Freeway (now better known as the Long Beach Freeway).  Pro:  names can be more specific.  "Harbor Freeway" and "Arroyo Seco Parkway" give a better idea of location since both are discrete parts of Route 110.  Con:  Names do not have very good relatability to maps even in Los Angeles.  Caltrans signing policy has deprecated freeway names since the 1960's, although the practical effect of this in LA has been muted because new signs tend to be "carbon copies" of existing signs.

CalTrans, or perhaps it was still Division of Highways at that time, went through a period of emphasizing freeway name in the mid to late 1960s. Prior to that, the only use of a freeway name prior to an interchange was on exit sequence signs, and on an auxiliary (NEXT EXIT) sign just before the interchange. Signage at the interchange itself was direction/route number/destination. Due to complaints from the public, this style of signage was introduced. Since that time, a number of freeways without generally well-known names have opened in southern California (Gardena Freeway, anyone?) and so route numbers have become predominant.

You should be right about this even the US-101 (ventura freeway) has signs like the one you posted at the interchange with I-405 (San Diego Freeway) and most socal highway interchanges will even say the current freeway name and the intersecting freeway.

[TheStranger]

I find it amusing for the informal yet more popular way of naming freeways in the L.A. metro area surely caught on. Naming freeways after someone or anything (i.e. "the Christopher Columbus Intercontinental") is a mouthful for the news media to write or speak when making reports on them.

Not if it's a traditional one or two word name like "Hollywood" or "Santa Monica."  I can see why the modern honorary names are completely not in vogue, but the older ones served to give an idea of where a route eventually traverses.

[Interstatefan78]

I find it amusing for the informal yet more popular way of naming freeways in the L.A. metro area surely caught on. Naming freeways after someone or anything (i.e. "the Christopher Columbus Intercontinental") is a mouthful for the news media to write or speak when making reports on them.

Not if it's a traditional one or two word name like "Hollywood" or "Santa Monica."  I can see why the modern honorary names are completely not in vogue, but the older ones served to give an idea of where a route eventually traverses.

You seem to forgot about the Long Beach and Ventura Freeways. Long Beach Freeway runs from East Los Angeles up to  the port of Long Beach, but the Ventura Freeway starts in Pasadena and the name ends at the Santa Barbara/ ventura county line

[TheStranger]

I find it amusing for the informal yet more popular way of naming freeways in the L.A. metro area surely caught on. Naming freeways after someone or anything (i.e. "the Christopher Columbus Intercontinental") is a mouthful for the news media to write or speak when making reports on them.

Not if it's a traditional one or two word name like "Hollywood" or "Santa Monica."  I can see why the modern honorary names are completely not in vogue, but the older ones served to give an idea of where a route eventually traverses.

You seem to forgot about the Long Beach and Ventura Freeways.

I didn't forget at all, I was just trying to be succinct with examples. 

The Bay Area is pretty much the same thing - names that have existed for over 50 years remain in use (Bayshore, Central, Nimitz, etc.) while later ones (Sinclair) never get mentioned.

[NYYPhil777]

Did anybody notice in that picture of the I-5 traffic on the LA Times article page that there's a car going on (what looks like) the left shoulder of I-5 South?     
Here in St. Louis, everybody around here (in my opinion) thinks I-70 is the only interstate in the area! People around here say Highway 70, Highway 64 (most disrespect it and say 40  ), Highway 270, etc. When they're in a traffic jam they say they're "stuck" on, for example, 270.
When it comes to names, the only route people call by the name is MO-364/D (people refer to it as Page Avenue or the Page Extension, depends if you're in St. Louis County or St. Charles County), otherwise they use numbers. The bridges do get called by their names though, with the news reporters sometimes using the route number. For instance, I-64 is the Daniel Boone Bridge.
To be precise on topic, maybe Ron King is a ARE.  https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=7818.0

[myosh_tino]

Did anybody notice in that picture of the I-5 traffic on the LA Times article page that there's a car going on (what looks like) the left shoulder of I-5 South?     

That's not the left shoulder... that's an HOV lane!  Older Los Angeles freeways that have had HOV lanes added typically don't have left shoulders to make room for the HOV lane.  Freeways that are rebuilt to add HOV lanes (like I-5 through Orange County) do have full left shoulders.

[NYYPhil777]

Did anybody notice in that picture of the I-5 traffic on the LA Times article page that there's a car going on (what looks like) the left shoulder of I-5 South?     

That's not the left shoulder... that's an HOV lane!  Older Los Angeles freeways that have had HOV lanes added typically don't have left shoulders to make room for the HOV lane.  Freeways that are rebuilt to add HOV lanes (like I-5 through Orange County) do have full left shoulders.

Sorry, didn't look like an HOV lane to me. I stand corrected.

[BigRedEO]

I was born and raised in the 'burbs of L.A.  Moved to the Cleveland area at the age of 30 back in 1995 and I didn't notice at first that people gave directions without the "the", saying "Take 480 to 271 south, etc etc".  I was so used to my LA terminology using the "THEs" (which I call "mixed" terminology because I alternate between the names and the numbers): "Take the 110 to the San Diego north..." 

However, the difference was pointed out to me very rudely by someone here. 

I worked in a Singing Telegram office (believe it or not) for 6.5 years in L.A. and 9 years in Northeast Ohio and I was asking directions of a fellow messenger: "Do I take the 271 up to the 90 east and then exit - ?" and he actually yelled at me: "WHAT'S WITH the THE?? THERE IS no 'THE' IN THE FREEWAY NAMES!!  YOU JUST TAKE 271 TO 90 WEST AND EXIT AT BISHOP ROAD!!"

Dude was so frickin' hostile about it that I now subconsciously change how I give directions - I don't even think about it.  When I am here in Ohio, I leave out the "THEs" and when I am back home in L.A., I automatically put the "THEs" right back in - but I still alternate between the name and the number depending on which one my brain thinks of first!

[Sonic99]

While I don't live in Phoenix anymore, I do recall when I was younger hearing the traffic reports and the names being used semi-regularly. You have the:

I-17 "Black Canyon Freeway"
SR51 "Squaw Peak Parkway**"
US60 (used to be SR360) "Superstition Freeway"
Loop 202 "Red Mountain Freeway"/"Santan Freeway"/"South Mountain Freeway" (yet to be built)
I-10 "Papago Freeway"
SR143 "Hohokam Expressway"

The only Phoenix-area freeway that never really had "names" catch on was the Loop 101, and that's because it was pretty much the last "loop" to get completed. It has 3 names that I know of, but as I said, aren't used much. "Agua Fria Freeway", "Pima Freeway", and "Price Freeway".


(**although it was changed IIRC in 2003 to "Piestewa Parkway" in honor of Lori Piestewa, the first Native American killed in the Iraq war. It was a compromise after YEARS of controversy about the use of the name "Squaw", which apparently is offensive in some tribes),

I don't know how much they use the names anymore, but I would guess that the whole reason the names were used to begin with was the fact that so much of the population growth in Phoenix has indeed come from Southern California.

[agentsteel53]

"Take the 110 to the San Diego north..." 

that would confuse me, since the city of San Diego is to the south of that junction.  in fact, that is the reason the names were deprecated by CalTrans starting in the 70s. 

[1995hoo]

I was born and raised in the 'burbs of L.A.  Moved to the Cleveland area at the age of 30 back in 1995 and I didn't notice at first that people gave directions without the "the", saying "Take 480 to 271 south, etc etc".  I was so used to my LA terminology using the "THEs" (which I call "mixed" terminology because I alternate between the names and the numbers): "Take the 110 to the San Diego north..." 

However, the difference was pointed out to me very rudely by someone here. 

I worked in a Singing Telegram office (believe it or not) for 6.5 years in L.A. and 9 years in Northeast Ohio and I was asking directions of a fellow messenger: "Do I take the 271 up to the 90 east and then exit - ?" and he actually yelled at me: "WHAT'S WITH the THE?? THERE IS no 'THE' IN THE FREEWAY NAMES!!  YOU JUST TAKE 271 TO 90 WEST AND EXIT AT BISHOP ROAD!!"

Dude was so frickin' hostile about it that I now subconsciously change how I give directions - I don't even think about it.  When I am here in Ohio, I leave out the "THEs" and when I am back home in L.A., I automatically put the "THEs" right back in - but I still alternate between the name and the number depending on which one my brain thinks of first!

This sort of thing could spark a whole discussion about regionalisms that would probably warrant its own thread.

Referring to TV stations, for example. Growing up here in the DC area everyone referred to the stations by number: Channel 4 (NBC), Channel 7 (ABC), Channel 9 (CBS), Channel 26 (PBS), Channel 20 (independent when I was a kid), etc. Nobody ever used the network designators I just mentioned and even fewer people ever referred to the stations by call letters. I don't think I ever heard anyone use the letters. Then during my second year of college one of my roommates, who was from a part of Connecticut not far from New York City, was looking at the TV guide in the Washington Post and asked, "Do we get WRC here?" The rest of us, all of whom were from the DC area, had no idea what he was talking about until we looked at the TV guide. "WRC" is the DC-area NBC affiliate. We all knew it solely as "Channel 4." My relatives in Brooklyn all use the letters to refer to their stations, though.

I never hear anybody use the word "freeway" except in reference to particular roads that have that word in the name (the Whitehurst Freeway in DC, for example). Nobody here ever says "Highway XX" either–it's either just the number like you suggest, or sometimes "Route XX" (e.g., "My brothers lives off Route 236"), or often "I-XX" when it's an Interstate. (I remember when I was in my teens and one of the parents in our Boy Scout troop gave directions as "Take IH-95 towards Baltimore." We all looked at him and said, "What the fuck is with that 'IH' crap?") NEVER heard anyone use "the" with a highway number except when referring to European roads (as in, "To get back to Heathrow take the M4 towards London.").

The funny thing is, though, that with so many people coming here from other parts of the country you'd think we'd hear more variation, but we don't.

[mapman1071]

While I don't live in Phoenix anymore, I do recall when I was younger hearing the traffic reports and the names being used semi-regularly. You have the:

I-17 "Black Canyon Freeway"
SR51 "Squaw Peak Parkway**"
US60 (used to be SR360) "Superstition Freeway"
Loop 202 "Red Mountain Freeway"/"Santan Freeway"/"South Mountain Freeway" (yet to be built)
I-10 "Papago Freeway"
SR143 "Hohokam Expressway"

The only Phoenix-area freeway that never really had "names" catch on was the Loop 101, and that's because it was pretty much the last "loop" to get completed. It has 3 names that I know of, but as I said, aren't used much. "Agua Fria Freeway", "Pima Freeway", and "Price Freeway".


(**although it was changed IIRC in 2003 to "Piestewa Parkway" in honor of Lori Piestewa, the first Native American killed in the Iraq war. It was a compromise after YEARS of controversy about the use of the name "Squaw", which apparently is offensive in some tribes),

I don't know how much they use the names anymore, but I would guess that the whole reason the names were used to begin with was the fact that so much of the population growth in Phoenix has indeed come from Southern California.

The Names Are Used by Detour Dan and other metro phoenix traffic/news reporters due to streets crossings/exits meeting the freeway at 2 different locations

The Freeway Names must be Used for both the 101 and 202 Freeways

101 Exits/Meets Mcdowell, Thomas, Indian School, Cactus Thunderbird & Bell on the AGUA Fria & Pima Freeways

202  Mclintock, Dobson, Alma School, Gilbert Rd, Lindsay, Val Vista, Higley Rd, Recker, Power, Sossaman & Haws on both the San Tan and Red Mountain Freeways (Mcdowell Road Meets or has exits from the Red Mountain Freeway 3 Times) On the South Mountain Freeway
40th Street (Red Mountain), 24th Street (Red Mountain), Baseline (All 3 Segments), Southern (All 3), Broadway (Red Mountain) & Van Buren (Red Mountain)

They are used optionally on the 10, 17, 51, 60, 143 and 303 Freeways.