Best Airports to travel in, out, or through

[roadman65]

Why do city limits matter to private cab companies? Operating permits? Could a business not get permits in both cities?

I do not know, but years ago the Star Ledger (New Jersey or North Jerseys main newspaper) had an article on this, and it stated how much harder it was to get a taxi in Terminal A at Newark Airport then it was at the other two terminals because it was across the city line and cabs are not allowed to do that for some reason.  I am not familiar with how the jurisdictions work with cab companies, but they do unless maybe things changed.  I have not lived in NJ since 1990 so in 22 years it no longer keeps me in touch with things there.

[Alps]

Why do city limits matter to private cab companies? Operating permits? Could a business not get permits in both cities?

I do not know, but years ago the Star Ledger (New Jersey or North Jerseys main newspaper) had an article on this, and it stated how much harder it was to get a taxi in Terminal A at Newark Airport then it was at the other two terminals because it was across the city line and cabs are not allowed to do that for some reason.  I am not familiar with how the jurisdictions work with cab companies, but they do unless maybe things changed.  I have not lived in NJ since 1990 so in 22 years it no longer keeps me in touch with things there.

It's absolutely true. Newark cabs cannot get you at Terminal A. You basically have to call a cab company to come get you from there. I think it's ridiculous that the two cities couldn't have worked out some arrangement with their borders, but I'm sure Elizabeth is getting a pretty good amount of taxes.

[SP Cook]

Taxis are very tightly regulated and a huge tax cash cow, in most big cities, and especially in the NYC metro.  According to the internet Elizabeth has only 80 cab medalions, while Newark has about 600.  The other issue if you are going to Manhattan, IIRC, is that if you fly into one of the two NY airports, the cab can drop you off and then try to get another fare downtown, but a NJ cab is not allowed to do that, they have to "deadhead" back to NJ, so they can charge you for that.

Other weird ones I have seen are in Cincy, where all the cabs have both an Ohio and a Kentucky plate, as they cannot go into Kentucky without paying Kentucky taxes as well (the airport is in Kentucky).  Las Vegas has two types of cabs, with the lesser version (called a "red a** cab" in the local lingo) unable to pick people up at either the airport or the Strip, but charging its mostly local clientele a far lower rate.  IIRC, DC used to have the world's most confusing cabs, with three cab lines at DCA, as different cabs had different permits for drop offs in DC, MD or VA (thus a complex combination of cabs with permits from different combinations of the three jurisdictions, both with and without airport permits as well).  They used to not have meters, but an impossible to understand "rate card" but they did away with that, although IAD still has a no-meter flat rate (which is less than the meter would be).

[cpzilliacus]

Taxis are very tightly regulated and a huge tax cash cow, in most big cities, and especially in the NYC metro.  According to the internet Elizabeth has only 80 cab medalions, while Newark has about 600.  The other issue if you are going to Manhattan, IIRC, is that if you fly into one of the two NY airports, the cab can drop you off and then try to get another fare downtown, but a NJ cab is not allowed to do that, they have to "deadhead" back to NJ, so they can charge you for that.

Other weird ones I have seen are in Cincy, where all the cabs have both an Ohio and a Kentucky plate, as they cannot go into Kentucky without paying Kentucky taxes as well (the airport is in Kentucky).  Las Vegas has two types of cabs, with the lesser version (called a "red a** cab" in the local lingo) unable to pick people up at either the airport or the Strip, but charging its mostly local clientele a far lower rate.  IIRC, DC used to have the world's most confusing cabs, with three cab lines at DCA, as different cabs had different permits for drop offs in DC, MD or VA (thus a complex combination of cabs with permits from different combinations of the three jurisdictions, both with and without airport permits as well).  They used to not have meters, but an impossible to understand "rate card" but they did away with that, although IAD still has a no-meter flat rate (which is less than the meter would be).

D.C. cabs are now all metered.

But what all of the cries out for is an end to economic regulation of the taxicab industry. 

No state, county or municipal government should be in the business of allowing (or not allowing) someone to be in the taxicab business, nor to tell the owner or operator of a cab how much to charge.

[J N Winkler]

But what all of the cries out for is an end to economic regulation of the taxicab industry.

No state, county or municipal government should be in the business of allowing (or not allowing) someone to be in the taxicab business, nor to tell the owner or operator of a cab how much to charge.

I don't think this localized disparity in cab availability is an argument against economic regulation of the taxi industry.  Rather, it is an argument against using a medallion system as an instrument of political patronage, which is what it has become in northern New Jersey.

Aside from the need for safety regulation, which necessitates official oversight of the taxi industry in any case, the taxi companies have to be able to collect enough in fares to keep their vehicles clean and in good repair while paying their drivers at minimum a reasonable wage (preferably enough to attract safe drivers).  Communities do have an interest in there being adequate availability of cabs at major traffic generators such as airports.  In principle, and in the absence of real-world problems such as significant barriers to entry in the taxi industry, both aims can be achieved through appropriate tailoring of safety regulation.  However, I suspect medallion systems have developed partly to relieve taxi licensing authorities of the added overhead associated with using safety inspections to exercise control over the quality dimensions of taxi service.  Sometimes it is much cheaper to achieve an aim by indirection.

[cpzilliacus]

But what all of the cries out for is an end to economic regulation of the taxicab industry.

No state, county or municipal government should be in the business of allowing (or not allowing) someone to be in the taxicab business, nor to tell the owner or operator of a cab how much to charge.

I don't think this localized disparity in cab availability is an argument against economic regulation of the taxi industry.  Rather, it is an argument against using a medallion system as an instrument of political patronage, which is what it has become in northern New Jersey.

There is no rational reason to have a medallion system anywhere.  It is an unjustified intrusion into the market for transportation services. 

Aside from the need for safety regulation, which necessitates official oversight of the taxi industry in any case, the taxi companies have to be able to collect enough in fares to keep their vehicles clean and in good repair while paying their drivers at minimum a reasonable wage (preferably enough to attract safe drivers).  Communities do have an interest in there being adequate availability of cabs at major traffic generators such as airports.  In principle, and in the absence of real-world problems such as significant barriers to entry in the taxi industry, both aims can be achieved through appropriate tailoring of safety regulation.  However, I suspect medallion systems have developed partly to relieve taxi licensing authorities of the added overhead associated with using safety inspections to exercise control over the quality dimensions of taxi service.  Sometimes it is much cheaper to achieve an aim by indirection.

I have no problem with non-economic regulation of taxicabs, for example to:

- make sure drivers are qualified to drive a taxi, not an illegal alien and not someone that has been convicted of violent crime(s);
- make sure vehicles are in a good state of repair (including brakes, tires, steering and emission control systems);
- make sure that drivers and vehicles are properly insured;
- make sure that vehicles have appropriate anti-robbery systems installed (such as video cameras and GPS-enabled robbery alarm systems);
- make sure appropriate taxes have been paid;
- make sure that taxi meters are honestly calibrated (without dictating what the fares should be);
- make sure that taxi service is available to the public 24 hours per day, 7 days per week; and
- make sure that drivers do not exceed a certain number of hours behind the wheel (perhaps like the federal hours-of-service rules for commercial vehicle drivers).

[SP Cook]

As libertarian as I am about economics, I understand that price regulation is an important consumer regulation.

In an airport scenario, I can make an informed decision to either take a taxi, which will be $X, or (depending on the airport) an air traveler specific shared van or bus for a little less, a "car service" or limo which will be a little to a lot more (and generally involve no cab line), and, in some places, the city's regular communal transit for a highly subsidized token amount.  I have been in cab lines for up to 30 minutes.  I don't see how that could work if every passenger had to haggle with the driver over price.

While I despise communal transit generally, the value to the business traveler of flying into DCA and getting downtown on the subway and back for less than $4 round trip cannot be beat.

[cpzilliacus]

As libertarian as I am about economics, I understand that price regulation is an important consumer regulation.

It's really about disclosure of those prices, so a consumer can make a rational decision.

In an airport scenario, I can make an informed decision to either take a taxi, which will be $X, or (depending on the airport) an air traveler specific shared van or bus for a little less, a "car service" or limo which will be a little to a lot more (and generally involve no cab line), and, in some places, the city's regular communal transit for a highly subsidized token amount.  I have been in cab lines for up to 30 minutes.  I don't see how that could work if every passenger had to haggle with the driver over price.

Agreed.  The key to competitive taxi rates is to mandate that every taxicab display a (permanent) "price to compare" on the outside of the vehicle.  That "price to compare" should be the cost for a uniform trip of an arbitrary length (maybe 5 miles).

While I despise communal transit generally, the value to the business traveler of flying into DCA and getting downtown on the subway and back for less than $4 round trip cannot be beat.

Agreed. 

There are many things that the designers of the Washington Metrorail system did wrong (and initially, the rail stop at DCA was in an inconvenient location, but the location now is excellent). 

Compare and contrast with LGA in New York City (no direct access to the subways, absolutely inexcusable) and LAX (Green Line (east-west light rail that runs mostly on the median of I-105)), with the Aviation stop sited intentionally far from the LAX terminals (you cannot walk to get there, some sort of a shuttle bus runs sometimes between the LAX terminals and the Aviation stop. 

Baltimore's BWI has a light rail station at one end of its terminal building complex, but I don't think it gets all that much use from arriving or departing passengers.  It also has a MARC commuter and Amtrak station, but again, I don't think airport users bother with it (a bus runs from the terminals to the train station).

The Metrorail line to Dulles will be open (supposedly) by 2016, but it will be a long walk from the terminal building to the train platform, which was moved to "save money" (it was originally to have been built under the front of the main  terminal building).  And it's going to be a long, long ride from there to downtown D.C.

London Heathrow has decent access to the Piccadilly line (Tube) from its terminals, and a dedicated express train to downtown London (Paddington Station).  London Gatwick has direct regional rail service to downtown as well (Victoria Station). Stockholm Arlanda has a great express train (privately build and privately owned) that runs from the airport to downtown Stockholm at high speed (this is what the Dulles Line should have been).

[kphoger]

The Metrorail line to Dulles will be open (supposedly) by 2016, but it will be a long walk from the terminal building to the train platform, which was moved to "save money" (it was originally to have been built under the front of the main  terminal building).  And it's going to be a long, long ride from there to downtown D.C.

When traveling, I've never really been bothered by a long rail trip from the airport to the city center.  I'm just always happy to have a rail link at all, and airports are often far from the city center anyway.  I also just assume that the rail link will be a long walk from the terminals; in fact, I would only be pleasantly surprised if it weren't.

[cpzilliacus]

The Metrorail line to Dulles will be open (supposedly) by 2016, but it will be a long walk from the terminal building to the train platform, which was moved to "save money" (it was originally to have been built under the front of the main  terminal building).  And it's going to be a long, long ride from there to downtown D.C.

When traveling, I've never really been bothered by a long rail trip from the airport to the city center.  I'm just always happy to have a rail link at all, and airports are often far from the city center anyway.  I also just assume that the rail link will be a long walk from the terminals; in fact, I would only be pleasantly surprised if it weren't.

The new Washington Metrorail Silver Line will be 17 (that's right, 17) stops from the first stop in downtown D.C.  That is going to make for a very long trip from Dulles if your destination is anywhere in D.C. (even worse if you are trying to reach one of the Metro stations in Maryland).

The rail station will be built on the other side of the "daily" (expensive) lot (north side of Saarinen Circle (Google Maps here) - (the lot is also totally free parking for Members of Congress and their families (very wrong), Justices of the U.S. Supreme Court (I'm O.K. with that), and diplomats (I'm also O.K. with that)).  Most of the underground walkway (runs north-south from the main terminal building) was built some years ago, so parking lot patrons don't have to walk across a pretty big lot in the cold or heat, and will also serve Silver Line riders.

[kphoger]

The new Washington Metrorail Silver Line will be 17 (that's right, 17) stops from the first stop in downtown D.C.  That is going to make for a very long trip from Dulles if your destination is anywhere in D.C. (even worse if you are trying to reach one of the Metro stations in Maryland).

O'Hare is 16 stops from the first downtown Blue Line stop (Clark/Lake), so that doesn't really seem out of the ordinary to me.

[cpzilliacus]

The new Washington Metrorail Silver Line will be 17 (that's right, 17) stops from the first stop in downtown D.C.  That is going to make for a very long trip from Dulles if your destination is anywhere in D.C. (even worse if you are trying to reach one of the Metro stations in Maryland).

O'Hare is 16 stops from the first downtown Blue Line stop (Clark/Lake), so that doesn't really seem out of the ordinary to me.

Never ridden a train from O'Hare (I have changed planes there several times, but never gone to Chicago itself by way of flying). 

One of the axioms of transportation planning (and especially transit planning) is the notion that trips should be separated by trip length.  Hence there are local, limited-stop and express buses (outside of New York City, this is rare for rail transit).   But it is one reason why having the El serve (relatively) short trips while using the Metra commuter rail lines to serve longer trips. 

Dulles is a long way from downtown D.C., and would be much better-served by an express train line to the city, with only one or two stops along the way (maybe at Tysons Corner and someplace in Arlington County).  But there's this notion that Dulles needed the same type of transit that close-in National (DCA) enjoys, something I have always disagreed with.

[realjd]

London Heathrow is 18 stops from Green Park Station along the Picadilly line. It takes just under an hour. There's also an expensive express train to Paddington Station that costs around £30 round trip and takes around 15 minutes. Having done both, I prefer the express train but it seems like there are always more people on the much less expensive but slow Underground train.

I think offering both is a great for transit users. I have the option to pay for fast service while also having the option to get there affordablly if needed.

[cpzilliacus]

London Heathrow is 18 stops from Green Park Station along the Picadilly line. It takes just under an hour. There's also an expensive express train to Paddington Station that costs around £30 round trip and takes around 15 minutes. Having done both, I prefer the express train but it seems like there are always more people on the much less expensive but slow Underground train.

I think offering both is a great for transit users. I have the option to pay for fast service while also having the option to get there affordablly if needed.

I strongly agree. 

I have not ridden that part of the Picadilly Line (I've ridden the other end, to Cockfosters while on a transit sightseeing trip), but the travel time makes intuitive sense, given the number of stops (stops really slow any form of transit down). The train to Paddington is similar in price to the Arlanda Express train in Stockholm. 

[agentsteel53]

Cockfosters

eh, it's probably pronounced something nowhere near as giggle-inducing, like "Coffs" or "Darby".

[english si]

London Heathrow is 18 stops from Green Park Station along the Picadilly line. It takes just under an hour. There's also an expensive express train to Paddington Station that costs around £30 round trip and takes around 15 minutes. Having done both, I prefer the express train but it seems like there are always more people on the much less expensive but slow Underground train.

Yesterday at 5:15, I couldn't get on a Heathrow train at Acton Town (a lot of these would have been Hounslowites/Ealingites, but a lot had luggage) - literally no more room. That is common, though this one was totally rammed - in fact it's common to have difficulties in the off-peak (mid-afternoon, late evening). Two minutes later a train fresh from the depot pulled into the station, also heading for Heathrow - those who couldn't get on the previous train filled most seats. Only having about 12tph to Heathrow doesn't help.

I think offering both is a great for transit users. I have the option to pay for fast service while also having the option to get there affordablly if needed.

There's also a mid-range 'Connect' service that has two stops taking the route of the fast trains.
At the moment you can pay through the nose to get the arse end of zone 1 quickly (for a lot of major destinations, it will be slower than the slow option), a middling amount to get to the arse end of zone 1 reasonably quickly (they market that one for local traffic though) or a small amount to get to some of the best stops in zone 1 directly at the cost of time and comfort.

They plan, in 5 to 6 years time, to open Crossrail and abolish the Heathrow Express - I believe BAA's contribution to the cost includes giving the tunnel they built from Hayes and Harlington (that the Express and Connect use) for £1, which will reduce the fares significantly as it would be zone 1-6, rather than a special fare. As Crossrail will, while adding stops to Heathrow-Paddington journeys, extend those journeys through many well-sited stations (Bond Street, Tottenham Court Road, Farringdon, Liverpool Street, Whitechapel (which is better sited than Paddington, even if not well-sited), Canary Wharf...), it means it's a far better option and everyone except the hotels at Paddington (which isn't really walkable for tourists to visit London, unlike a wide selection of Piccadilly line stops) wins. The Piccadilly will cease to be crush-loaded, while Crossrail becomes very full around the Ealing/Acton area instead (partially transfer of Heathrow traffic, partially due to people in the middle of the two lines heading north to Crossrail, not south to the Piccadilly as they do now, due to the better journey times that comes from not terminating at Paddington).

Heathrow's rail links to outside London leave a lot to be desired (they scrapped the link to Staines and beyond, due to level crossing issues, but the Slough and beyond link is gaining momentum), the air space is crowded, the runways very tight timings (so plane misses the slot=longer wait), the terminals are crowded, especially the central ones. Road access is poor compared to other developed world equivalents (and passenger drop offs near the terminals have gone, thanks to the Glasgow Airport terrorist attack) - you will navigate either stop lights, roundabouts, or both before reaching the car park. Still, at least the journey time from gate to baggage claim isn't 15 minutes, like I've experienced (walking fast) at Stansted - it was like 400m with no walkways - fine as a 20-something able-bodied person, poor for everyone else. They don't even have an excuse that justifies the poor airport design!

That said, these plans to move it 2miles west and make it bigger (4 runways, large new terminal), will go a long way at making the Heathrow experience for most people a lot better, including those who just have to live near it (unless you live in Poyle, Datchet, Eton or Windsor, that is...)

eh, it's probably pronounced something nowhere near as giggle-inducing, like "Coffs" or "Darby".

Nope - it's pronounced "Cockfosters".

(just listen for the first 10-15 seconds)

[realjd]

Cockfosters

eh, it's probably pronounced something nowhere near as giggle-inducing, like "Coffs" or "Darby".

One of my favorite things about the Underground is the announcements that would be nonsense in any other context, like "this is the Picadilly line train with service to Cockfosters. Alight here for the Bakerloo line". It's much more colorful than American subways.

And yes, Cockfosters. Heh. We also ate at Ye Olde Cock Tavern last time I was there.

[flowmotion]

I might be biased, but I really like the design of SFO. Very short walk from curbside to the security gates, parking is convenient, short walk between terminals, corridors are wide, and the airport is only 10-15 minutes from downtown.

MSP, on the other hand, has become a total disaster. The corridors are crowded with low ceilings, the security area is a mess, and the distance to some of the gates is enormous. (Its funny how they have a 'train' to the rental car area even though it's the same distance as many of the gates.) And the whole arrangement with Humphrey Terminal #2 is bizarre.

[agentsteel53]

And the whole arrangement with Humphrey Terminal #2 is bizarre.

it's worse than bizarre when you have to clear customs and catch a connection between the two terminals.

[roadman65]

 I was browsing google maps and did a virtual tour of EWR (Newark- Liberty) and noticed they moved their arrivals roadway to the ground level.  According to wikipedia, the Port Authority added more Departure counters and moved the old Arrivals Hall to a new facility where the former parking garage was located beneath the front of the terminal, while the old Hall is a second Departure level to allow for the expansion.

I have not been in there in quite a few years, but I imagine that may make things somewhat easier.  Using the garage, considering the Osama Bin Laden made it where we cannot have them underneath the terminals anymore, is a great idea.  I did hear, that Terminal A will build a structure just like Terminal C and most other airports directly accross the street from the terminals. 

Also, does anyone know the type of term used for the three Newark Teminals design?  Unlike, most buildings that have cross beams to support its ceilings, the terminals here have strategically placed collums that support the part of the roof that is above them with four extensions that split from the top of the collum itself.  The roofs are inverted toward the structural support with a drain pipe inside the collum to allow for drainage.   Each part of the ceilings are the same square dimmensions except for three segments located over the escalator areas adjacent to the satelites that house the gates.

This airport looks a lot like Dulles, but not quite, but except for the design the same as IAD being modern.

[deathtopumpkins]

Best airport to get to downtown from? BOS!

You have to take a shuttle bus from your terminal to the subway station, but the buses run seemingly every minute so it's no big deal, and then the first downtown station is only 2 stops later.

[cpzilliacus]

Best airport to get to downtown from? BOS!

You have to take a shuttle bus from your terminal to the subway station, but the buses run seemingly every minute so it's no big deal, and then the first downtown station is only 2 stops later.

National Airport (DCA) in Arlington, Virginia is pretty good when it comes to "getting downtown" by transit, but unless your destination is close-by [the airport] Crystal City, Pentagon City or the Pentagon itself, it sounds like Boston beats the Washington Metro in that regard (it's still a pretty short trip from DCA to destinations in downtown D.C. by Metro).

[deathtopumpkins]

Admittedly the line that serves the airport ends 4 stops later in dowtown, so if you're going any farther you need to transfer to another line, but you never have to do more than a 2-seat ride, since the only other line that doesn't interchange with the Blue Line is the Red Line, but the Silver Line BRT which does interchange with the Red Line also serves the airport and actually runs direct-to-terminal.

It's pretty damn handy, but most cities don't have the luxury of having an airport as large as BOS right next to downtown due to geographical limitations.

[thenetwork]

Some of my fave airports:

Akron-Canton (OH) Airport:  Pretty much overhauled/expanded in the last 10 years, it's not that bad of a walk from gate to parking lot or car rental.  For those looking to go to Cleveland, or pretty much anywhere else in NE Ohio, CAK is the airport to go to.  (Also check out the goodies at Harry London Chocolate Factory, perfectly situated between the airport and I-77). 

Denver International Airport:  Despite the airport being out in the boonies in relation with a lot of the Denver Metro area, they have a pretty good dedicated freeway (Pena Boulevard) connecting I-70/I-225 and E-470, and a pretty good terminal/shuttle system.


Cleveland Hopkins Airport, despite the upgrades over the last dozen years or so, is still far from user-friendly.  If you are at the airport to pick up or drop off passengers, there is not much indoor waiting space nor concessions outside of the security zones (which used to be in each terminal).  Renting a car, you almost need a GPS to find your way to the freeways as there is no real easy connecting road from the Rental Car Center to the main area freeways (I-71 & I-480).  And the RTA Rapid Transit Red Line connecting the airport to downtown only runs every 30 minutes.  CAK is your better bet.

[realjd]

Denver International Airport:  Despite the airport being out in the boonies in relation with a lot of the Denver Metro area, they have a pretty good dedicated freeway (Pena Boulevard) connecting I-70/I-225 and E-470, and a pretty good terminal/shuttle system.

Don't forget the paintings of Nazi zombies killing children!

Cleveland Hopkins Airport, despite the upgrades over the last dozen years or so, is still far from user-friendly.  If you are at the airport to pick up or drop off passengers, there is not much indoor waiting space nor concessions outside of the security zones (which used to be in each terminal).  Renting a car, you almost need a GPS to find your way to the freeways as there is no real easy connecting road from the Rental Car Center to the main area freeways (I-71 & I-480).  And the RTA Rapid Transit Red Line connecting the airport to downtown only runs every 30 minutes.  CAK is your better bet.

Back when CLE was a Continental hub, I spent many evenings there cursing the fact that almost all of the concessions closed at 8.