Left Turns on Red for two one way streets.

[Brandon]

The move must be done from the curb lane, similar to right on red.

what about multiple lanes which are explicitly left-turn only?  can the LTOR be made from a non-curb lane then?  (is this even something which exist in reality?)

This can be done (one way to one way) at Center Street and Jefferson Street here in Joliet, IL.  There are two left turn lanes, and no signs prohibiting a turn on red.  Thus, both lanes may turn left on red.

Are you sure?  I seem to recall there being a statewide law that says LTOR from curb lane only.  No time to look it up right now, though.

If there is, even the cops ignore it there.  Otherwise, I know of no law prohibiting it.  I think that's why Illinois always has a "NO TURN ON RED" sign for those intersections with 2 right turn lanes (usually with "EXCEPT RIGHT LANE" below the signs).

[kphoger]

Yep, I found that and posted as such.  I wonder what I was thinking of.....hmmmmmm

[PurdueBill]

Holy thread revival!  I hope it is OK to revive this one but it didn't seem to make sense to start a new thread for my addition.

Visiting my mother in the hospital the other day, I was among a couple people aboard an elevator that was stopping at every floor for no one, without anyone aboard pushing any buttons for any stop before the 7th floor.  I remarked that the same people who program the vast majority of Akron traffic lights to change on a set timer day and night, responding to a call or not, must now be in charge of the elevators.  A fellow passenger agreed and then remarked that even worse than that, he's seen people all the time make left turns on red at one of the intersections right near the hospital!  The horror!  He didn't really believe me when I told him that it turns out to actually be legal (heck, there is a sign at another Akron intersection that even says so) but said that legal or not the police mustn't care because he's seen them "ignore" people making the lefts on red.

I thought it was interesting that the guy just brought that up and is sure that it couldn't be legal to make the left on red.  I hope I'm not stuck behind him at one of the classic mistimed Akron lights that is bearable only with such a legal turn....

[Big John]

Holy thread revival!  I hope it is OK to revive this one but it didn't seem to make sense to start a new thread for my addition.

Visiting my mother in the hospital the other day, I was among a couple people aboard an elevator that was stopping at every floor for no one, without anyone aboard pushing any buttons for any stop before the 7th floor.  I remarked that the same people who program the vast majority of Akron traffic lights to change on a set timer day and night, responding to a call or not, must now be in charge of the elevators.  A fellow passenger agreed and then remarked that even worse than that, he's seen people all the time make left turns on red at one of the intersections right near the hospital!  The horror!  He didn't really believe me when I told him that it turns out to actually be legal (heck, there is a sign at another Akron intersection that even says so) but said that legal or not the police mustn't care because he's seen them "ignore" people making the lefts on red.

I thought it was interesting that the guy just brought that up and is sure that it couldn't be legal to make the left on red.  I hope I'm not stuck behind him at one of the classic mistimed Akron lights that is bearable only with such a legal turn....

A bit off topic, but was it on a weekend?  Some elevators are set up at religious institutions/hospitals that way so you would not be "working" by pressing buttons on the sabbath.

[jeffandnicole]

Well, I see two possibilities:
2) there are two states whose laws do not explicitly address the matter

I know this is from long ago, but technically states don't need to specifically address LTOR.  The basic rule is Stop on Red; don't proceed until the light is green.  Written seperately is the exception that vehicles may turn right on red when safe to do so, but that's written into the law.  Another exception is vehicles may turn left on red, but that's written into the law as well.  And if those exceptions are not there, go back to the basic rule - Stop on Red; don't proceed until the light is green.

[1995hoo]

Holy thread revival!  I hope it is OK to revive this one but it didn't seem to make sense to start a new thread for my addition.

Visiting my mother in the hospital the other day, I was among a couple people aboard an elevator that was stopping at every floor for no one, without anyone aboard pushing any buttons for any stop before the 7th floor.  I remarked that the same people who program the vast majority of Akron traffic lights to change on a set timer day and night, responding to a call or not, must now be in charge of the elevators.  A fellow passenger agreed and then remarked that even worse than that, he's seen people all the time make left turns on red at one of the intersections right near the hospital!  The horror!  He didn't really believe me when I told him that it turns out to actually be legal (heck, there is a sign at another Akron intersection that even says so) but said that legal or not the police mustn't care because he's seen them "ignore" people making the lefts on red.

I thought it was interesting that the guy just brought that up and is sure that it couldn't be legal to make the left on red.  I hope I'm not stuck behind him at one of the classic mistimed Akron lights that is bearable only with such a legal turn....

A bit off topic, but was it on a weekend?  Some elevators are set up at religious institutions/hospitals that way so you would not be "working" by pressing buttons on the sabbath.

A "Sabbath Elevator." They're not confined to religious institutions and hospitals. In New York some apartment buildings and co-ops have them. The other residents generally know which elevator to avoid. Some newer buildings have a more clever twist where the residents for whom this is an issue have to request the service and the management will program the elevator to stop on those floors (presumably not all elevators allow this kind of programming, thus making the "stop on all floors" the default option in other buildings). Apparently this sort of thing is not unique to elevators–some ovens have a "Sabbath mode" to allow for keeping pre-cooked food warm (this because many ovens will now turn off automatically after some preset time for safety reasons), and some refrigerators apparently have a "Sabbath" feature that disables the interior light for the Sabbath so that the observant user cannot be said to have "turned on" the light by opening the door.


But to return to the main topic: The comment from the fellow PurdueBill encountered doesn't surprise me at all. Another forum I visit has a thread about things that are annoying you and I commented one day about getting stuck behind someone who simply refused to go left on red at an intersection where it was allowed. Several people responded along the lines of, "WTF is the matter with you? You can't go left on red." So I linked, and quoted, the relevant statute from the Code of Virginia (since I was driving in Virginia). One of them responded with a comment that was something like, "Yeah, well, I've never heard of that so I'm not about to start doing it." I can certainly understand why she wouldn't just take my word for it, but when I presented the statute.....  

[PurdueBill]

It actually was on Saturday, but the same elevator later that day (I was there for over 8 hours) and the next day didn't behave that way.  Maybe it was acting up, or maybe some kids went pushing call buttons at every floor....I wouldn't doubt it.  "Hey kids, go play or something while grandma uses the bedpan/grandpa uses the urinal/etc. etc. etc...."  Bang! Elevator buttons pushed everywhere!  Or maybe it was at a certain time of known heavy traffic of people needing the feature.  We may never know....

I am pleasantly surprised that as many people are aware of the left on red as there are.  As my fellow elevator passenger noted, a lot of people do it at the intersection in question, and AKTE even posts No Turn On Red at a few intersections of one-way streets where right turns wouldn't be possible but left on red would be undesirable (due to sight lines, multiple lanes, or the like), acknowledging that without the sign, left on red would be possible.

[empirestate]

Well that makes sense then; the Sabbath would have ended at sundown on Saturday, so what you describe fits perfectly.

I wonder if this is the same reason NYC walk signals don't have buttons (well, that and they're all timed).

[jeffandnicole]

One of them responded with a comment that was something like, "Yeah, well, I've never heard of that so I'm not about to start doing it." I can certainly understand why she wouldn't just take my word for it, but when I presented the statute.....  

I like people.  Especially those that will hear the correct answer from 10 million people, but they'll listen to the 1 person that has an alternate (wrong) answer.  The response from that person will be, "Well, I heard that...". 

They also heard the other (correct) answer as well...but choose to ignore it.

[M3019C LPS20]

It is not too common to find a sign in New York City that indicates to a driver that he or she is allowed to make a left turn on red.

This sign is fairly common to see in Broad Channel, Queens, New York. A couple exist on one segment of Cross Bay Blvd. there, and they are located on the median.

[empirestate]

It is not too common to find a sign in New York City that indicates to a driver that he or she is allowed to make a left turn on red.

This sign is fairly common to see in Broad Channel, Queens, New York. A couple exist on one segment of Cross Bay Blvd. there, and they are located on the median.

It's not common citywide, but then neither are signs permitting right on red (other than on Staten Island, where they seem to be more the rule than the exception). I'd say the ratio of permitted rights to permitted lefts in NYC is about equal to the ratio of possible rights and lefts on red statewide.

[M3019C LPS20]

It is not too common to find a sign in New York City that indicates to a driver that he or she is allowed to make a left turn on red.

This sign is fairly common to see in Broad Channel, Queens, New York. A couple exist on one segment of Cross Bay Blvd. there, and they are located on the median.

It's not common citywide, but then neither are signs permitting right on red (other than on Staten Island, where they seem to be more the rule than the exception).

Yes, this is true.

The likely reason is that Staten Island is, by far, the least populated borough in the city of New York. With that said, vehicular traffic is not so bad on the island. I should know, since I lived there for nearly twenty years.

[empirestate]

It is not too common to find a sign in New York City that indicates to a driver that he or she is allowed to make a left turn on red.

This sign is fairly common to see in Broad Channel, Queens, New York. A couple exist on one segment of Cross Bay Blvd. there, and they are located on the median.

It's not common citywide, but then neither are signs permitting right on red (other than on Staten Island, where they seem to be more the rule than the exception).

Yes, this is true.

The likely reason is that Staten Island is, by far, the least populated borough in the city of New York. With that said, vehicular traffic is not so bad on the island. I should know, since I lived there for nearly twenty years.

I work there on occasion. Keep in mind that, if Staten Island were not a borough of NYC, it wouldn't even be eligible for blanket no-turn-on-red, a privilege reserved for cities of a million or more population. (Richmond County has less than half that, even now at NYC's historical peak population.)