Was I-95 supposed to bypass New Haven? (and other Interstate toll road oddities)

Started by NE2, January 19, 2015, 04:51:16 AM

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NE2

http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/infrastructure/tollroad.cfm
In 1957, the Interstate system included the Connecticut Turnpike "from the New York State line to Old Lyme, except the section at New Haven". (I have no idea how they got 98 miles; it's only 78 from New York to Old Lyme and 88 to the split with I-395.) Why the exception? Were there plans to build a separate bridge across the harbor?

Other interesting things to note:
I-95 used Florida's Turnpike from West Palm to Fort Pierce.

The Masspike was not included west of East Lee; perhaps a route paralleling US 20 to Albany was planned. (But the Yellow Book appears to go the other way, routing I-90 along the Berkshire Connection all the way, with current free I-90 only shown west of I-787.)

I-95 did not use any of the New Jersey Turnpike yet.

I-87 would have stuck to the Thruway south of Newburgh, as it does now. But by 1959, it had been shifted to the east side of the Hudson, and later was farther east on I-684, before being moved back in 1969.

The Ohio Turnpike was not an Interstate between North Ridgeville (now I-480) and the bump near Youngstown. I-80 was planned to leave it at Norwalk and follow SR 18 through Akron to Youngstown, with 80N staying on to North Ridgeville, then following roughly what's now I-90 and unbuilt I-290 through Cleveland (no, I don't know where it would have cut north to modern I-90), I-480 to Streetsboro, and SR 14 to past Ravenna.

I-276 ended at US 13 near Bristol, where I-95 was planned to cross.
pre-1945 Florida route log

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kurumi

I won't say there never were plans for a more southerly New Haven Harbor crossing, but I've never seen any. It would have been expensive and would have severed the Port of New Haven, but would also have relieved thru traffic from 91/95/34.

I looked for another source of the toll road information -- even primary sources can be wrong. The endpoint of Old Lyme makes no sense; by 1957 it was well known that I-95 would split from the Turnpike with US 1 at East Lyme. The length of 98 miles makes little sense as well.

The exception at New Haven might be a reference to the Saltonstall Parkway, a divided section of US 1 built circa 1941, extending from roughly CT 337 to CT 100. This was built with federal aid money, and Connecticut could not just slap tolls on it without repaying the funds or doing some other negotiation. A few other pre-existing sections (Darien, Old Lyme) were also incorporated into the Turnpike. So mayyyybe the exception was more of a bookkeeping issue.

The author at NE2's source cites an August 1957 press release from the Bureau of Public Roads announcing the addition of 2,102 miles of toll roads into the interstate system. Some newspaper articles from the time include the same list of toll roads, with the same data for I-95. Some articles note that the toll roads would be made free, which didn't happen. Others don't mention the toll roads at all.

The FHWA site (http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/highwayhistory/data/page01.cfm) has a lot of detail on the 1957 announcement, with just a few issues with respect to the toll road listing:
* the announcement is dated October 1957, not August
* the total mileage is identical (2,102)
* the complete listing of routes totaling 2,102 miles is shown, and it does not include any of the toll roads, or mention toll roads at all

I can't locate the original BPR release online; that would have solved a lot of uncertainty. I think some wires got crossed, and now some inaccurate information has become authoritative just by having been printed 50 years ago.
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NE2

#2
Quote from: kurumi on January 19, 2015, 02:02:22 PM
http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/highwayhistory/data/page01.cfm
I had forgotten about that link. And holy crap, I-90 ended at I-695 (Allston/Brighton) until 1990! (or 1974 per page 5)

Also, from page 5, I-491 was assigned to the southwest quarter of I-291 from 1975 to 1980.
pre-1945 Florida route log

I accept and respect your identity as long as it's not dumb shit like "identifying as a vaccinated attack helicopter".

KEVIN_224

I thought I-90 ended at I-93 before the Big Dig?

kurumi

Another note on the Saltonstall Parkway (US 1 in New Haven / East Haven): most of it was not incorporated into the Turnpike. You could argue the frontage road area was.

Regarding southwestern I-491: the state got the new designation after the northwest segment was cancelled, leaving two disconnected segments still viable. Some I-291 opponents looked on the 491 designation with suspicion, as if the state were trying to sneak it past with a disguise.
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NE2

Quote from: KEVIN_224 on January 19, 2015, 11:03:22 PM
I thought I-90 ended at I-93 before the Big Dig?
Yes. But before 1974 (which looks to be correct, not 1990) it ended at Allston/Brighton.


(yes, the 1955 plan for I-495 followed 128)


Has anyone come across exactly which urban routes were added in 1957? Many are obvious, but some less so. And that Scranton belt...
pre-1945 Florida route log

I accept and respect your identity as long as it's not dumb shit like "identifying as a vaccinated attack helicopter".

froggie

QuoteHas anyone come across exactly which urban routes were added in 1957?

Duluth's I-35 mileage north of I-535 was a 1957 addition.

NE2

Quote from: froggie on January 20, 2015, 06:06:09 AM
QuoteHas anyone come across exactly which urban routes were added in 1957?

Duluth's I-35 mileage north of I-535 was a 1957 addition.

What about DC? Chicago? Louisville (which got both a connection and a loop)?
pre-1945 Florida route log

I accept and respect your identity as long as it's not dumb shit like "identifying as a vaccinated attack helicopter".

PHLBOS

#8
Quote from: NE2 on January 19, 2015, 11:21:07 PM
Quote from: KEVIN_224 on January 19, 2015, 11:03:22 PM
I thought I-90 ended at I-93 before the Big Dig?
Yes. But before 1974 (which looks to be correct, not 1990) it ended at Allston/Brighton.
Such would probably explain why this TO 90 trailblazer was erected on this entrance ramp BGS.
at Mass Ave. (Exit 21)

The location's likely near or at Copley Square (Exit 22).

Photo from the Blizzard of '78:


GPS does NOT equal GOD

Pete from Boston

Mass Ave, or Copley Square?  Those buildings are nothing like what's next to Newbury St. at the Mass Ave onramp. 

PHLBOS

Quote from: Pete from Boston on January 20, 2015, 09:17:20 AM
Mass Ave, or Copley Square?  Those buildings are nothing like what's next to Newbury St. at the Mass Ave onramp. 
I've since modified my earlier post.  One thing's for sure; the location of that photo is definitely east of Allston/Brighton.
GPS does NOT equal GOD

Mergingtraffic

There is no good reason a city the size of New Haven has no bypass limted access route.  Heck, even Worcester, MA has one.  I think if it were any other state there would be.
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Pete from Boston


Quote from: doofy103 on January 20, 2015, 05:11:16 PM
There is no good reason a city the size of New Haven has no bypass limted access route.  Heck, even Worcester, MA has one.  I think if it were any other state there would be.

It's more like Worcester is on a bypass route.  The through route passes it by.  This has actually itself been the source of some resentment and complaint by Worcester folks. 

JakeFromNewEngland

Quote from: doofy103 on January 20, 2015, 05:11:16 PM
There is no good reason a city the size of New Haven has no bypass limted access route.  Heck, even Worcester, MA has one.  I think if it were any other state there would be.


New Haven would definitely benefit from a bypass route IMO. The traffic is horrible, but that could also be from the ongoing construction. I've always wondered if they could just make a more southern harbor crossing which could become part of some sort of bypass route.

NE2

pre-1945 Florida route log

I accept and respect your identity as long as it's not dumb shit like "identifying as a vaccinated attack helicopter".

kurumi

Quote from: NE2 on January 21, 2015, 12:23:11 AM
New Haven has a bypass for cars.

Yep, the Wilbur Cross Parkway.

On the eastern side, you get CT 22. It's Connecticut, you should be happy with two lanes.

In 1968, when the feds were asking "hey, if we were to give out additional interstate miles, what would you want", Connecticut's position was "we don't think the system should be expanded, but if it is, we propose a 12-mile bypass around New Haven". This was all very general, and I haven't seen a drawing of that route --- but a freeway treatment of CT 22, from I-91 to I-95, would be about 12 miles.

Off the top of my head, here are the interstate proposals CT at least semi-seriously entertained:
* New Haven bypass (no number)
* US 44, west of Hartford
* SR 501 (Trout Brook Connector)
* CT 72 into Bristol
* Charter Oak Bridge and connectors between 91 and 84
* and the "well known ones" (284, western 291, 484, 491/86)
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Alps

Quote from: kurumi on January 21, 2015, 01:19:21 AM
Quote from: NE2 on January 21, 2015, 12:23:11 AM
New Haven has a bypass for cars.

Yep, the Wilbur Cross Parkway.

On the eastern side, you get CT 22. It's Connecticut, you should be happy with two lanes.

In 1968, when the feds were asking "hey, if we were to give out additional interstate miles, what would you want", Connecticut's position was "we don't think the system should be expanded, but if it is, we propose a 12-mile bypass around New Haven". This was all very general, and I haven't seen a drawing of that route --- but a freeway treatment of CT 22, from I-91 to I-95, would be about 12 miles.

Seems to me like you're describing a southeastward extension of CT 40.

kurumi

Quote from: Alps on January 21, 2015, 08:23:44 PM
Quote from: kurumi on January 21, 2015, 01:19:21 AM
Quote from: NE2 on January 21, 2015, 12:23:11 AM
New Haven has a bypass for cars.

Yep, the Wilbur Cross Parkway.

On the eastern side, you get CT 22. It's Connecticut, you should be happy with two lanes.

In 1968, when the feds were asking "hey, if we were to give out additional interstate miles, what would you want", Connecticut's position was "we don't think the system should be expanded, but if it is, we propose a 12-mile bypass around New Haven". This was all very general, and I haven't seen a drawing of that route --- but a freeway treatment of CT 22, from I-91 to I-95, would be about 12 miles.

Seems to me like you're describing a southeastward extension of CT 40.

That's right. However, back in 1968, they were calling the proposal CT 22; and in 1970 the CT 40 designation was going to be applied to part of what is now CT 10 in New Haven near I-95.
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SidS1045

Quote from: NE2 on January 19, 2015, 11:21:07 PM
before 1974 (which looks to be correct, not 1990) it ended at Allston/Brighton.


Sorry, not correct.  The Images of America paperback "Building the Mass Pike" has a picture of the construction of the interchange with the old Central Artery (MA-3) just south of Kneeland Street in what was then Boston's Chinatown, in the summer of 1964.  The Turnpike "extension" (between MA-128 and MA-3) opened in February 1965.
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bob7374

Quote from: SidS1045 on January 23, 2015, 11:17:28 PM
Quote from: NE2 on January 19, 2015, 11:21:07 PM
before 1974 (which looks to be correct, not 1990) it ended at Allston/Brighton.


Sorry, not correct.  The Images of America paperback "Building the Mass Pike" has a picture of the construction of the interchange with the old Central Artery (MA-3) just south of Kneeland Street in what was then Boston's Chinatown, in the summer of 1964.  The Turnpike "extension" (between MA-128 and MA-3) opened in February 1965.
I assume the reference to extension refers to I-90 signage. The Turnpike Extension does date to 1964. I-90 though was not signed past Allston-Brighton to I-93 until the late 1980s IIRC, until that time the Extension was only signed as To I-90 West, which explains the 1978 photo.

NE2

pre-1945 Florida route log

I accept and respect your identity as long as it's not dumb shit like "identifying as a vaccinated attack helicopter".

PHLBOS

Turth be told, the Mass Pike Extension between Allston-Brighton & Weston (I-95/MA 128) had minimal I-90 signage well until the 1990s.  Even an early 80s-vintage pull-through BGS for the eastbound Pike traffic at Exit 14 did not have any I-90 shields mounted on it nor any supplemental shields erected nearby.
GPS does NOT equal GOD



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