Plagerism in music

[roadman65]

As we all know Guns N Roses are in the news lately not so much because they made a hit, but seemed to have pissed off another songwriter claiming that the band stole their song's music.   The song Sweet Child of Mine is being accused of sounding like Unpublished Critics a song by Australian Crawl back in 1981.  What are your takes on this one?   Is it accurate or is is baloney?

Remember some dude from Westchester County, NY once accused the Rolling Stones of stealing one of his own pieces to make Just Another Night, however the judge was wise and stated the Stones did not plagiarize that man's other song.  Then you had George Harrison get sued for his My Sweet Lord tune for sounding like a 50's song He's So Fine and actually lost that suit against him.  The judge in that particular case did believe that My Sweet Lord and He's So Fine were the same melody even though IMO is not!

What do you think about this one suit?  Do you hate Axel enough to want to see him pay out in some way, or do you think the songs are similar?  Do you know of any other songs that were brought up over time of accused stealing you want to discuss?  That is what this thread is for.

[Big John]

First that came to me as Vanilla Ice using Queen's Under Pressure music for Ice Ice Baby.

[corco]

I think the claims that Sweet Child of Mine is a ripoff of that Aussie song are bunk- there's some similarity, but not that much. Whoever pointed it out is more just somebody trying to stir shit up and get page views on the internet than somebody with actual evidence of plagiarism.

Hell, listen to the first few bars of "Unpublished Critics" and then listen to the first few bars of "Summer of 69"

I think "Unpublished Critics" is just a very generic song, so a lot of songs are going to sound like it.

[roadman65]

Exactly the same happened, like I said with The Rolling Stones.  Someone who came out with a bogus claim that he had a song that was like the Stones' but was nowhere near in sound.

People will try anything and considering that Axel Rose is hated by some, and that the band is quite popular, some nut job will always try something.

[pianocello]

Another famous recent example is Sam Smith's "Stay with me" sounding oddly like Tom Petty's "Won't back down"

[briantroutman]

To avoid a lawsuit, Lieber and Stoller were retroactively credited as songwriters for Michael McDonald's 1982 hit "I Keep Forgettin' (Every Time You're Near)" . Two decades earlier, they had written and produced "I Keep Forgettin'" , which was a minor hit for Chuck Jackson. But other than starting with the same line of lyrics, the songs are completely and entirely different, and no one could possibly confuse the two. I think crediting L&S was unwarranted.

[hbelkins]

First that came to me as Vanilla Ice using Queen's Under Pressure music for Ice Ice Baby.

There's a difference between sampling another song and blatantly ripping something off. Most recent episode of this I can remember is the "Blurred Lines" controversy.

The guitar solo in "Baker Street" by Gerry Rafferty rips off Alex Lifeson's solo in "I Think I'm Going Bald."

[jakeroot]

I think another recent example might be Lady Gaga's Born This Way, purportedly, being similar to Madonna's Express Yourself.

[dfwmapper]

So it turns out that a lot of songs sound exactly like a lot of other songs. This is not news.

What's the next claim, that Glycerine by Bush is knocking off that Aussie band?

[roadman65]

What about Jewel using the same music in two completely differently?  Who Will Save Your Soul and You Were Meant For Me you must listen to the lyrics to tell them apart.

Then most of Rap and R& B sounds pretty similar.

The first one is by the same artist, but the second one is the back the previous point of most songs do sound alike so what are many making a big deal of it?  Oh yes $$$$

That is why the judge who made George Harrison pay the songwriter of the song Hes So Fine irks me so much for his hit song My Sweet Lord.  Both songs are not exactly alike, but two songs like that are just as similar everywhere where you never hear lawsuits.

[PHLBOS]

The Verve's Bittersweet Symphony vs. the Rolling Stones' The Last Time.

Wiki coverage of The Verve

For the first time in their career, The Verve experienced widespread commercial success with their new material. The album's first single "Bitter Sweet Symphony" entered the UK charts at number 2 in June 1997, but the song's success was marred by legal problems regarding ownership of the song. Even though the group had secured permission to use a sample of 4 bars of an orchestral rendition of "The Last Time" by The Rolling Stones, it was successfully argued that the group had relied too heavily on the song's original vocal melody as well, and they were forced to surrender copyright and royalties to Mick Jagger and Keith Richards.

[spooky]

The first one is by the same artist, but the second one is the back the previous point of most songs do sound alike so what are many making a big deal of it? 

well sure everybody says that.

[Pete from Boston]

Then most of Rap and R& B sounds pretty similar.

Really?

[roadman65]

Then most of Rap and R& B sounds pretty similar.

Really?

I mean some of the rap songs are all alike as the rap is the same in all of the music pretty much.  I add R & B to the list for those songs that are rap, but classified under R & B for some reason.

[Pete from Boston]

Then most of Rap and R& B sounds pretty similar.

Really?

I mean some of the rap songs are all alike as the rap is the same in all of the music pretty much.  I add R & B to the list for those songs that are rap, but classified under R & B for some reason.

So you're saying songs in a particular style are stylistically similar? 

[bugo]

What's the next claim, that Glycerine by Bush is knocking off that Aussie band?

There are literally thousands of songs that use that I V vi IV chord progression.

[hbelkins]

The Verve's Bittersweet Symphony vs. the Rolling Stones' The Last Time.

I've heard this for years, but I have never able to hear similarities in these two songs.

[Duke87]

The Verve's Bittersweet Symphony vs. the Rolling Stones' The Last Time.

I've heard this for years, but I have never able to hear similarities in these two songs.

That's because there's a lot going on in "Bittersweet Symphony" other than the base melody they copied, so it's well masked. Also, the copied work is a relatively unknown orchestral version of "The Last Time", not the version everyone knows. This isn't even disputed, they explicitly obtained permission to use the melody. But then the song unexpectedly became a huge hit, and the Stones' former manager decided to be a dick and file a lawsuit purely for the sake of money grabbing.

So really what this is is yet another example of something all too common in the recording industry - someone with a lot of money, recognition, and power using those things to shake down smalltime artists who lack the resources to fight back. 

The same guy of course had done the same thing before - The Stones themselves were not involved in any of this drama since they had long ago unwittingly signed all of the rights to their early works over to him.

[english si]

This isn't even disputed, they explicitly obtained permission to use the melody.

I was going to say - they credited the original from the start.

[CNGL-Leudimin]

I swear Liechtenstein's anthem sounds exactly like UK's.

[Pete from Boston]

Damn mockingbird in my yard sings everybody else's works without crediting them.

[english si]

I swear Liechtenstein's anthem sounds exactly like UK's.

And England's national anthem (for football, at least) seems to have the same lyrics as well as music. Likewise one of New Zealand's two national anthems and the royal anthems of several countries...

Plus the Americans plifered the tune for 'My Country 'Tis of Thee'.

Actually, this is common, with that sort of music (hymns, anthems, etc). Some people wrote melodies, others wrote words, a few wrote both.  There are traditional lyric-melody pairings, and some are specific, but often you can use a different melody in the same meter for the words (eg American and European versions of 'O Little Town of Bethlehem') and many melodies have several sets of words. Choirs thus go we'll be singing Lyrics to TUNE and give authors for both.

[Pete from Boston]

For that matter, our national anthem is sung to the tune of an English paean to drunken debauchery.  Probably not an accident.