Penndot now using red arrows?

[ekt8750]

I noticed PA still uses that redundant RIGHT TURN SIGNAL sign on the lights with the right arrows. New York took the LEFT TURN SIGNAL signs out recently when they put the red arrows in.

Yeah cause they're almost always doghouses and people don't seem to know what to do when they see red ball/green right arrow for their lane. There is one intersection in Philly that replaced the right turn signal doghouses with right red arrows (and unfortunately brought red light cameras with them) and no turn on red signs.

[MASTERNC]

I noticed PA still uses that redundant RIGHT TURN SIGNAL sign on the lights with the right arrows. New York took the LEFT TURN SIGNAL signs out recently when they put the red arrows in.

Yeah cause they're almost always doghouses and people don't seem to know what to do when they see red ball/green right arrow for their lane. There is one intersection in Philly that replaced the right turn signal doghouses with right red arrows (and unfortunately brought red light cameras with them) and no turn on red signs.

The LEFT TURN SIGNAL signs are out of compliance with the MUTCD IIRC.  I believe they were removed from the MUTCD when red arrows became mandatory.

I know the location of the right red arrows with cameras (around City Hall).  However, there are definitely right red arrows on South Street and near the stadiums (they all have the No Turn on Red signs, but the one by the stadium also permits right on red from the outside turn lane only).

[Brandon]

I noticed PA still uses that redundant RIGHT TURN SIGNAL sign on the lights with the right arrows. New York took the LEFT TURN SIGNAL signs out recently when they put the red arrows in.

Yeah cause they're almost always doghouses and people don't seem to know what to do when they see red ball/green right arrow for their lane. There is one intersection in Philly that replaced the right turn signal doghouses with right red arrows (and unfortunately brought red light cameras with them) and no turn on red signs.

The LEFT TURN SIGNAL signs are out of compliance with the MUTCD IIRC.  I believe they were removed from the MUTCD when red arrows became mandatory.

Since when?  Illinois uses either those or LEFT TURN ON GREEN ARROW ONLY with either the red ball or the red arrow on a protected-only left turn signal display.

As for right red arrows, NO TURN ON RED makes perfect sense to add as here, a red ball and a red right arrow mean the exact same thing with respect to turning right on red.

[cl94]

I noticed PA still uses that redundant RIGHT TURN SIGNAL sign on the lights with the right arrows. New York took the LEFT TURN SIGNAL signs out recently when they put the red arrows in.

Yeah cause they're almost always doghouses and people don't seem to know what to do when they see red ball/green right arrow for their lane. There is one intersection in Philly that replaced the right turn signal doghouses with right red arrows (and unfortunately brought red light cameras with them) and no turn on red signs.

The LEFT TURN SIGNAL signs are out of compliance with the MUTCD IIRC.  I believe they were removed from the MUTCD when red arrows became mandatory.

Since when?  Illinois uses either those or LEFT TURN ON GREEN ARROW ONLY with either the red ball or the red arrow on a protected-only left turn signal display.

As for right red arrows, NO TURN ON RED makes perfect sense to add as here, a red ball and a red right arrow mean the exact same thing with respect to turning right on red.

NYSDOT has been using red arrows since at least the mid-90s and "left turn signal" signs still exist out there. Red balls still exist, but at least in Region 5, they're limited to exit ramps and separated/tapered turn lanes. Wouldn't call 20+ years "recent".

Brandon is correct about the R10-5 (left turn on green arrow only sign). It is is listed as an option in the 2009 MUTCD, as is the  R10-10 (left/right turn signal sign). They remain in compliance.

[Alps]

Not to mention that red arrows are not mandated - you can have green arrow with red ball in some circumstances. (I know one is if it will only be red when the through street is red.)

[MASTERNC]

I noticed PA still uses that redundant RIGHT TURN SIGNAL sign on the lights with the right arrows. New York took the LEFT TURN SIGNAL signs out recently when they put the red arrows in.

Yeah cause they're almost always doghouses and people don't seem to know what to do when they see red ball/green right arrow for their lane. There is one intersection in Philly that replaced the right turn signal doghouses with right red arrows (and unfortunately brought red light cameras with them) and no turn on red signs.

The LEFT TURN SIGNAL signs are out of compliance with the MUTCD IIRC.  I believe they were removed from the MUTCD when red arrows became mandatory.

Since when?  Illinois uses either those or LEFT TURN ON GREEN ARROW ONLY with either the red ball or the red arrow on a protected-only left turn signal display.

As for right red arrows, NO TURN ON RED makes perfect sense to add as here, a red ball and a red right arrow mean the exact same thing with respect to turning right on red.

NYSDOT has been using red arrows since at least the mid-90s and "left turn signal" signs still exist out there. Red balls still exist, but at least in Region 5, they're limited to exit ramps and separated/tapered turn lanes. Wouldn't call 20+ years "recent".

Brandon is correct about the R10-5 (left turn on green arrow only sign). It is is listed as an option in the 2009 MUTCD, as is the  R10-10 (left/right turn signal sign). They remain in compliance.

I see the R10-10 is still there.  However, on page 470 (Section 4D.19), where it discusses signal faces for protected left turns, it seems to specify that only one sign be used with such a signal, and it is not the LEFT TURN SIGNAL sign.

It shall be capable of displaying, the following signal indications: steady left-turn RED ARROW, steady left-turn YELLOW ARROW, and left-turn GREEN ARROW.  Only one of the three indications shall be displayed at any given time.  A signal instruction sign shall not be required with this set of signal indications.  If used, it shall be a LEFT ON GREEN ARROW ONLY (R10-5) sign (see Figure 2B-27)

[noelbotevera]

The 2013 driver's manual still says "While not common in Pennsylvania, a red arrow means you cannot turn left on the red arrow". I'm gonna take their word for it and say it's gonna be a while till PA actually starts using these red arrows for signals.

[jeffandnicole]

The 2013 driver's manual still says "While not common in Pennsylvania, a red arrow means you cannot turn left on the red arrow". I'm gonna take their word for it and say it's gonna be a while till PA actually starts using these red arrows for signals.

You mean replaces all the red balls with red arrows. They clearly already started using red arrows.

And if that's the exact language in the driving manual, that is wrong as well. It should simply say you cannot turn in the direction of the red arrow, as there may be right arrows at some intersections.

[noelbotevera]

The 2013 driver's manual still says "While not common in Pennsylvania, a red arrow means you cannot turn left on the red arrow". I'm gonna take their word for it and say it's gonna be a while till PA actually starts using these red arrows for signals.

You mean replaces all the red balls with red arrows. They clearly already started using red arrows.

And if that's the exact language in the driving manual, that is wrong as well. It should simply say you cannot turn in the direction of the red arrow, as there may be right arrows at some intersections.

Yeah I did not remember part of it. I meant "cannot turn in the direction of the red arrow". Derp.

[Fntp]

It's funny that the drivers manual hasn't changed that quote because I've noticed that the red balls over left turn lanes and right turn lanes have been replaced with a completly new signal or retrofitted into an older one with the red arrow kind of like the ones here in Pittsburgh https://www.google.com/maps/@40.454055,-79.9533653,3a,75y,260.97h,83.81t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sV6-XywL2UiALRw1GFn0r7w!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

[Mr_Northside]

It's funny that the drivers manual hasn't changed that quote because I've noticed that the red balls over left turn lanes and right turn lanes have been replaced with a completly new signal or retrofitted into an older one with the red arrow kind of like the ones here in Pittsburgh https://www.google.com/maps/@40.454055,-79.9533653,3a,75y,260.97h,83.81t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sV6-XywL2UiALRw1GFn0r7w!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

I wouldn't be surprised if that particular installation is going to be replaced during the current Bigelow/Craig/Baum reconstruction project (though while the hardware might be new, it will probably be the same general idea.)