Motorcycles going between cars

[Brandon]

My assumption was that Brandon considers lane splitting to be rude because he is jealous of them.

Hardly.  It is line jumping.  Now, maybe line jumping is acceptable behavior on the West Coast, but it isn't in the Midwest.  It's the same reason assholes (usually with Illinois plates from that bastion of rudeness, Chicago) that use the lane being closed until its very end and then try to bull their way in are considered rude.

[hbelkins]

I saw two crotch rockets passing a truck on the paved shoulder in a curve on northbound KY 15 between Hazard and Jackson today.

That's not lane splitting.

No, but it's the same mentality.

[DaBigE]

Because it could be considered to be like someone skipping ahead of you in line at worst, sloppy passing procedure at best.

Completely reasonable, and I can see where you're coming from. But...

Example: Riding the line is illegal in Wisconsin. While waiting for the Merrimac Ferry, I've seen motorcyclists ride the line and skip ahead of the cars queued for the ferry (a line that can be upwards of 25 minutes long during tourist season). This usually happens while the ferry is en-route (the operator is the only one in the vicinity with any kind of authority).

Less cars and more bikes = shorter wait time. I don't agree with them skipping ahead, but for everyone else behind them, one less car to load is one less car in their way (unless the ferry operator loads them into the same space as a car, which would be silly and should be re-thought). As jeffandnicole said, rudeness can be in the eye of the beholder, but as far as I'm concerned, they're doing us a favor by not adding to the congestion.

There's a median narrow of sorts between two of the three vehicle lanes where the motorcycles get parked for the trip across the river, so the same number of cars get through regardless of the presence of motorcycles. It's more the principle of the matter, yes, mixed with a bit of jealousy. If I drive up in my car and have to wait 20 minutes, the motorcycle(s) that were behind me on the highway should have to wait 20 minutes as well.

[jakeroot]

Hardly.  It is line jumping.  Now, maybe line jumping is acceptable behavior on the West Coast, but it isn't in the Midwest.

I completely understand that, but I don't agree. Lane splitting is riding where cars cannot be, therefore (outside of lanes merging into one another), there isn't anything to jump ahead of. Where the motorcyclist is riding is a place where you cannot be. You can be angry, fine, but it's no different than a pedestrian or cyclist making quicker progress due to heavy traffic.

No, but it's the same mentality.

Yes, they are both technically overtaking maneuvers. But lane splitting is not about being able to overtake in the shoulder way over the speed limit. I don't want to legalize that. What I do want to legalize is riding between two cars at a reasonable, safe speed where the danger of being rear-ended is almost completely absent. And yes, the danger of being side-swiped is still there, of course, but at least the rider might have a chance to see it coming, unlike a car from the rear.

There's a median narrow of sorts between two of the three vehicle lanes where the motorcycles get parked for the trip across the river, so the same number of cars get through regardless of the presence of motorcycles. It's more the principle of the matter, yes, mixed with a bit of jealousy. If I drive up in my car and have to wait 20 minutes, the motorcycle(s) that were behind me on the highway should have to wait 20 minutes as well.

As a principle matter, as with Brandon above, I can absolutely see where you're coming from.

[empirestate]

Whatever one's opinion on lane splitting, I have to believe that CA's permission of lane-splitting does not extend to the space between the carpool lane and the regular lanes, which I've frequently seen. As I recall, the wording of CA's law refers to lane striping, such that the carpool lane is out of bounds.

Like many states, California allows motorcycles to use HOV lanes, so such is permitted. Also, do consider how helpful that particular buffer is: cars cannot cross it (legally), and it's wide. Though, not all HOV lanes are marked like this.

The buffer is exactly the issue; surely, motorcycles may not cross it either. But they necessarily do so in order to successfully lane-split alongside most cars or trucks.

Now, helpful? Sure, there's no doubt it's a more convenient, and likely safer, place to lane split. But legal? Not so far as I'm aware.




iPhone

[jakeroot]

Like many states, California allows motorcycles to use HOV lanes, so such is permitted. Also, do consider how helpful that particular buffer is: cars cannot cross it (legally), and it's wide. Though, not all HOV lanes are marked like this.

The buffer is exactly the issue; surely, motorcycles may not cross it either. But they necessarily do so in order to successfully lane-split alongside most cars or trucks.

Now, helpful? Sure, there's no doubt it's a more convenient, and likely safer, place to lane split. But legal? Not so far as I'm aware.

Lane-splitting is simply a tolerated practice in California. I don't believe there are any laws that specifically sanction riding between lanes, it's just not outright illegal. So, in this case, it's probably not legal, but it's tolerated. Then again, CHP writes tickets for those who cross from one lane into the other. As long as the bike doesn't cross completely into the other lane, legally they should be okay.

[sdmichael]

Whatever one's opinion on lane splitting, I have to believe that CA's permission of lane-splitting does not extend to the space between the carpool lane and the regular lanes, which I've frequently seen. As I recall, the wording of CA's law refers to lane striping, such that the carpool lane is out of bounds.


iPhone

There is no law regarding "lane splitting" in California. It just isn't illegal, something that may change in the future with an actual law stating it is legal. The space between the HOV and main lanes, when bounded by a double yellow line (or two sets) is illegal to cross regardless of the vehicle.

[sdmichael]

I saw two crotch rockets passing a truck on the paved shoulder in a curve on northbound KY 15 between Hazard and Jackson today.

That's not lane splitting.

No, but it's the same mentality.

How exactly is that the "same mentality"? Driving on the shoulder is illegal most anywhere. Lane splitting, in the United States, is only legal in California. Doing it in a safer manner, as in slower and with caution, is far safer than the alternative of staying in traffic. I don't split lanes with the pretense that I'm somehow reducing traffic congestion. I do it because I can, feel comfortable doing it, and it saves me time. It isn't "cutting ahead". No one is getting cut off nor delayed as a result of my actions. That would be rude.

[1995hoo]

My assumption was that Brandon considers lane splitting to be rude because he is jealous of them.

Hardly.  It is line jumping.  Now, maybe line jumping is acceptable behavior on the West Coast, but it isn't in the Midwest.  It's the same reason assholes (usually with Illinois plates from that bastion of rudeness, Chicago) that use the lane being closed until its very end and then try to bull their way in are considered rude.

People who consider it rude to use a lane that's open to traffic need to learn how to drive. Nobody gets to say arbitrarily "this point x distance short of the end of that lane is the merge point and thou shalt not go past it." If that were the rule, there would be umpteen thousand different opinions on where the merge point is. The correct procedure is to go to the end and take turns.

[Zeffy]

Why should motorcycles get a free pass to cut everyone off by riding in between the lanes? Nothing pisses me off more than seeing motorcycles show complete disregard for traffic laws.

[sdmichael]

Why should motorcycles get a free pass to cut everyone off by riding in between the lanes? Nothing pisses me off more than seeing motorcycles show complete disregard for traffic laws.

If they are lane-splitting where it is not legal, then they should be cited. Otherwise... different vehicles have different rules due to the very nature of the vehicle. I don't like seeing motorcyclists show complete disregard for traffic laws any more than any other road user.

Would you rather they sit in traffic "like everyone else" and make it worse as a result, increasing the length of the line? Lane splitting isn't creating worse traffic, at most it is keeping it the same.

[sdmichael]

Why should motorcycles get a free pass to cut everyone off by riding in between the lanes? Nothing pisses me off more than seeing motorcycles show complete disregard for traffic laws.

By that logic, why should HOV traffic get a "free pass" by not having to sit in the same traffic? What about pedestrians and bicycles? They should sit too, right?

[Big John]

http://ops.fhwa.dot.gov/freewaymgmt/faq.htm

15. Why are motorcycles allowed in some HOV lanes?

Motorcycles are permitted by federal law to use HOV lanes, even with only one passenger. The rationale behind allowing motorcycles to use HOV lanes is that it is safer to keep two-wheeled vehicles moving than to have them travel in start-and-stop traffic conditions. States can choose to override this provision of federal law, if they determine that safety is at risk.

Though I thought they were allowed in HOV lanes to account for fuel conservation, a reason HOV lanes were first put in.

[Stratuscaster]

Coming home today, in the span of 2 seconds, I saw a rider on a "crotch rocket" motorcycle move from my rear view mirror to my side mirror to in front of me. In dense traffic, moving at 50MPH. He had to be doing at least 80MPH to pass me that fast. I watched as he continued to weave through and between cars ahead of us and then turn right at a stoplight - without stopping.

Unnerving? You bet your ass it was.

I pay attention to motorcycles when I'm driving. My father and uncles are motorcycle riders. They would NEVER think of driving like this asshat was doing. All it would have taken is one car to stop short or close the gap in front of them and this guy would have been toast.

Sorry for the rant - riders like that give other riders a bad rep.

As far as lane splitting, I'm not a fan because it's not expected by most drivers.

[empirestate]

Whatever one's opinion on lane splitting, I have to believe that CA's permission of lane-splitting does not extend to the space between the carpool lane and the regular lanes, which I've frequently seen. As I recall, the wording of CA's law refers to lane striping, such that the carpool lane is out of bounds.


iPhone

There is no law regarding "lane splitting" in California. It just isn't illegal, something that may change in the future with an actual law stating it is legal. The space between the HOV and main lanes, when bounded by a double yellow line (or two sets) is illegal to cross regardless of the vehicle.

That's right; it's coming back to me now. It's neither expressly permitted nor illegal, so you simply apply any other existing and pertinent laws, such as the restrictions of pavement markings. Thus, you definitely may not lane-split by riding over the HOV buffer.

[jakeroot]

That's right; it's coming back to me now. It's neither expressly permitted nor illegal, so you simply apply any other existing and pertinent laws, such as the restrictions of pavement markings. Thus, you definitely may not lane-split by riding over the HOV buffer.

Probably not. But it's tolerated.

As far as lane splitting, I'm not a fan because it's not expected by most drivers.

There are people alive today who will not be alive tomorrow. And there are people who will be born tomorrow who are not alive today. With each passing day, the driving populace changes...it's fluid, like our laws. Right now, I would agree that most drivers don't expect them (outside of California). But given time, people will grow to accommodate the un-accommodated.

[empirestate]

That's right; it's coming back to me now. It's neither expressly permitted nor illegal, so you simply apply any other existing and pertinent laws, such as the restrictions of pavement markings. Thus, you definitely may not lane-split by riding over the HOV buffer.

Probably not. But it's tolerated.

Oh sure, lots of infractions are tolerated, as we all know, like jaywalking in NYC.

(Also, by "probably", do you mean you suspect it may actually be legal to ride on the buffer? Or were you saying that as a means of agreement?)

[jakeroot]

(Also, by "probably", do you mean you suspect it may actually be legal to ride on the buffer? Or were you saying that as a means of agreement?)

The California Driver handbook is the only thing I can find defining exactly what to do when meeting a double-double yellow line (don't touch it -- it's a wall). And while that's probably an okay source, I prefer to source the lawbooks themselves. My guess is that the law is in agreement with you (that is, no one may cross it or touch it, motorcycle or otherwise), but given how common it is for motorcyclists to ride upon them, I think there's a distinct possibility that it may actually be legal to ride upon them. Then again, it's been covered already that California does not expressly permit lane splitting, it just doesn't prohibit it, therefore the chance of the law actually spelling out "motorcycles may ride upon these lines" seems highly unlikely. But, I will remain un-convinced until I see the actual lawbook.

Does that make any sense?

[empirestate]

(Also, by "probably", do you mean you suspect it may actually be legal to ride on the buffer? Or were you saying that as a means of agreement?)

The California Driver handbook is the only thing I can find defining exactly what to do when meeting a double-double yellow line (don't touch it -- it's a wall). And while that's probably an okay source, I prefer to source the lawbooks themselves. My guess is that the law is in agreement with you (that is, no one may cross it or touch it, motorcycle or otherwise), but given how common it is for motorcyclists to ride upon them, I think there's a distinct possibility that it may actually be legal to ride upon them. Then again, it's been covered already that California does not expressly permit lane splitting, it just doesn't prohibit it, therefore the chance of the law actually spelling out "motorcycles may ride upon these lines" seems highly unlikely. But, I will remain un-convinced until I see the actual lawbook.

Does that make any sense?

Absolutely!

[DaBigE]

But given time, people will grow to accommodate the un-accommodated.

That's one perspective. Since the majority of the country doesn't expect it, the tide may turn that more people will not accept it and in turn, shun the practice.

[jeffandnicole]

Here's an article from earlier this summer regarding lane splitting:
http://www.sacbee.com/news/politics-government/capitol-alert/article26620264.html

In most states, the law is going to refer to driving in this manner: You must remain to the right of the center line, or between the lines on a multi-lane roadway.  And there's probably going to be something stated that vehicles cannot pass each other in that same marked lane, or that two vehicles cannot be side-by-side in a single marked lane.

Lane Splitting is generally not going to be mentioned because it's going to be illegal already to drive on top of the painted line or next to another vehicle within the same lane.

Thus, lane splitting would need to be explicitly allowed.  My guess is that since the law doesn't explicitly allow it, it may in fact be illegal but overlooked in California.

To put it in another, every day context:  Turning Right On Red requires a law to explicitly allow it.  The main law is:  Red Light means Stop.  The exception is:  After a complete stop, a motorist may turn right on a red light, unless signage states otherwise.

[realjd]

Whatever one's opinion on lane splitting, I have to believe that CA's permission of lane-splitting does not extend to the space between the carpool lane and the regular lanes, which I've frequently seen. As I recall, the wording of CA's law refers to lane striping, such that the carpool lane is out of bounds.

Like many states, California allows motorcycles to use HOV lanes, so such is permitted. Also, do consider how helpful that particular buffer is: cars cannot cross it (legally), and it's wide. Though, not all HOV lanes are marked like this.

The buffer is exactly the issue; surely, motorcycles may not cross it either. But they necessarily do so in order to successfully lane-split alongside most cars or trucks.

Now, helpful? Sure, there's no doubt it's a more convenient, and likely safer, place to lane split. But legal? Not so far as I'm aware.

Lane splitting in California isn't riding between the lanes. Technically it's allowed because California doesn't have a law against lane sharing which legalizes two vehicles passing in the same lane.

As for the no-mans land between the double yellow lines, I wouldn't expect that to be allowed either. I'm sure California has a law against driving to the left of a double yellow line, or crossing a double yellow line to pass. There would be no legal way to get into that space.

[bzakharin]

I've just seen it in NJ as well. I don't remember where, but it was while car traffic was crawling. It was either where NJ 55 lanes merge or on NJ 73 approaching a traffic light. Either way, they went in between lanes to get in front of everybody else.  suppose it isn't as dangerous in such a situation, but it is still annoying.

[jeffandnicole]

Here's an article from earlier this summer regarding lane splitting:
http://www.sacbee.com/news/politics-government/capitol-alert/article26620264.html

Lane splitting in California isn't riding between the lanes. Technically it's allowed because California doesn't have a law against lane sharing which legalizes two vehicles passing in the same lane.

Take a look at the link I posted above.  Especially the picture. 

If that's not riding the line, then that's being in his own lane.  And he's tailgating.  And if he's moving faster than the rest of the traffic, then he's probably weaving in and out of traffic, failing to use a turn signal every time he passes another vehicle and merges "side by side" with a vehicle in his lane.

Lane Splitters are absolutely riding the line.  They are not sharing a lane with another vehicle.

[ET21]

Rudeness can be in the eye of the beholder.

My assumption was that Brandon considers lane splitting to be rude because he is jealous of them.

[/quote]

Jealous of being a jackass going 100 mph weaving in between cars and trucks and driving on the lane divider? 

I've always hated and am scared of motorcycles on interstates because of this behavior. Someone WILL hit one of these bikes while trying to change lanes because one second they check their mirror and signal to change lanes, the next they start moving over, and all of a sudden there is a motorcyclist flipping you off because he was weaving at 100 mph and you cut him off.

Unfortunately, this type of motorcyclist outnumbers the motorcyclists who are actually courteous, properly signal when changing lanes, etc.