Control Cities

[noelbotevera]

I-95 between the SC line and I-40 could be

Lumberton
Raleigh

Past Lumberton...

Fayetteville
RDU Airport

Past Fayetteville...

Dunn
Durham

Past Dunn...

Petersburg/Richmond/Washington DC
Chapel Hill

[The Nature Boy]

I really don't think that Dunn should be a control city. Benson should be, but only because of the I-40 interchange.

[hbelkins]

You also can't ignore two whole states.

I-80 in Youngstown, Ohio says howdy.

[roadman65]

Lumberton should really be used, especially now that I-74 interchanges there.  I never understood why Fayetteville is used and not it. 

I-95 actually transits Lumberton proper, and gets no mention, but the city that I-95 does not even enter its city limits is used.

[The Nature Boy]

Lumberton should really be used, especially now that I-74 interchanges there.  I never understood why Fayetteville is used and not it. 

I-95 actually transits Lumberton proper, and gets no mention, but the city that I-95 does not even enter its city limits is used.

I-95 enters Fayetteville for a little bit and I-95 Business takes you from I-95 to downtown. It's a city of 100,000 people and the home of a major military base, it should definitely be a control city. Lumberton's proximity to Fayetteville does result in it getting screwed in regards to being a control city.

You also can't ignore two whole states.

I-80 in Youngstown, Ohio says howdy.

That is terrible control city signage though.

[hbelkins]

That is terrible control city signage though.

Why's that? Do you actually think all those little insignificant burgs that Pennsylvania uses are good?

[noelbotevera]

Lumberton should really be used, especially now that I-74 interchanges there.  I never understood why Fayetteville is used and not it. 

I-95 actually transits Lumberton proper, and gets no mention, but the city that I-95 does not even enter its city limits is used.

I-95 enters Fayetteville for a little bit and I-95 Business takes you from I-95 to downtown. It's a city of 100,000 people and the home of a major military base, it should definitely be a control city. Lumberton's proximity to Fayetteville does result in it getting screwed in regards to being a control city.

Comparison:

Lumberton 21,542
Fayetteville 204,408

Interstate junctions:

Lumberton: I-74/I-95, no US highways
Fayetteville: i-95/I-295, US 13, US 301 and US 401

[The Nature Boy]

Lumberton should really be used, especially now that I-74 interchanges there.  I never understood why Fayetteville is used and not it. 

I-95 actually transits Lumberton proper, and gets no mention, but the city that I-95 does not even enter its city limits is used.

I-95 enters Fayetteville for a little bit and I-95 Business takes you from I-95 to downtown. It's a city of 100,000 people and the home of a major military base, it should definitely be a control city. Lumberton's proximity to Fayetteville does result in it getting screwed in regards to being a control city.

Comparison:

Lumberton 21,542
Fayetteville 204,408

Interstate junctions:

Lumberton: I-74/I-95, no US highways
Fayetteville: i-95/I-295, US 13, US 301 and US 401

The Lumberton vs. Fayetteville control city case is an interesting one. The only case that Lumberton has is the I-74 interchange. Fayetteville is much larger, a destination (if you're military) and does cross more US highways.

You're slightly off on "no US highways" for Lumberton. The I-95/US 301 multiplex starts in Lumberton.

That is terrible control city signage though.

Why's that? Do you actually think all those little insignificant burgs that Pennsylvania uses are good?

Pennsylvania is definitely wrong as well. I guess there is nothing in PA that you could really put on I-80 control signage. In terms of distance, it isn't THAT much different than "New York" appearing as a control city in Northern Virginia. Of course, they also sign Baltimore so it's not quite as bad.

You could pull use "Pennsylvania" as a control city. It's not much different than NH DOT and MassDOT's insistence on using "Maine" as a control city on I-95.

[roadman65]

Bridgeport is Connecticut's largest city by population, yet New Haven gets control right from The Bronx in NYC.

Concord, NH gets to be control city from Boston Northward on I-93 (at least from I-95 and some others)yet you have to pass through Manchester to get to it. Last time I checked Manchester is New Hampshire's largest city and has more people than Concord.

In both cases New Haven and Concord are used because of its other major 2 digit interstates over the larger ones without any interstate junction.  Manchester has I-293, but that one does not count as its a loop off its parent.

[noelbotevera]

Bridgeport is Connecticut's largest city by population, yet New Haven gets control right from The Bronx in NYC.

Concord, NH gets to be control city from Boston Northward on I-93 (at least from I-95 and some others)yet you have to pass through Manchester to get to it. Last time I checked Manchester is New Hampshire's largest city and has more people than Concord.

In both cases New Haven and Concord are used because of its other major 2 digit interstates over the larger ones without any interstate junction.  Manchester has I-293, but that one does not count as its a loop off its parent.

Bridgeport becomes the control city (if I remember) south of Stamford near the NY line. It then becomes New Haven, then New London, then Providence.

[shadyjay]

I've only seen Bridgeport as a control city on I-95 signage in two locations:  US 7 South in Norwalk approaching I-95 North and the Milford Parkway South in Milford approaching I-95 South.  Outside of that, it's "New Haven" from the Bronx to West Haven, with the occasional old signage of "New England", "Conn", or, I-287's "Conn Tpke".

[roadman65]

Bridgeport is Connecticut's largest city by population, yet New Haven gets control right from The Bronx in NYC.

Concord, NH gets to be control city from Boston Northward on I-93 (at least from I-95 and some others)yet you have to pass through Manchester to get to it. Last time I checked Manchester is New Hampshire's largest city and has more people than Concord.

In both cases New Haven and Concord are used because of its other major 2 digit interstates over the larger ones without any interstate junction.  Manchester has I-293, but that one does not count as its a loop off its parent.

Bridgeport becomes the control city (if I remember) south of Stamford near the NY line. It then becomes New Haven, then New London, then Providence.

If Bridgeport is used it has to be new, as for ages ago the CT Turnpike was consistent with their signing except east of New Haven where both Providence and the state name Rhode Island were either used on EB (I-95 NB) ramps. In New York City it was "New England" but in Westchester I cannot be sure as I only saw the east end of I-287 with "Connecticut" as I-95 N Bound control back in 1988.

Sometimes one particular interchange will be different than others.  Maybe even a small group in one area may differ from the norm of the freeway segments in the region like in NY State with Montreal being the free I-87 section north of the Thruway control city as from NY 7 W Bound ( I saw this back in 2000) the control city being "Saratoga Springs" and of course back in 2012 ( I have the photo I took then) of E Bound NY 5 at I-87 using Saratoga Springs.  I am guessing that some of the Capital Region area ramps are chosen with a more local destination then the ultimate ones, as from into the next county north of Albany the City of Montreal is signed up until at least Lake George (as I have not yet in my adult life clinched I-87 north of the NY 9N connector at Exit 22 to the Canada Border to know for sure).

[Zzonkmiles]

One thing that has frustrated me about I-77 north of Charlotte is how even though there are no cities of any real significance at all until you reach Charleston, WV, the control cities keep changing. I think the control cities north of Charlotte are Statesville (fine), Elkin (wait, what?), Fort Chiswell (wait, what?) and Bluefield or Beckley (I can't remember; I'm not from the area, so I can't judge here). Then the control city becomes Charleston. But the control cities south of Charleston are Bluefield/Beckley and Charlotte only. Those no-name towns are totally ignored. I don't like the inconsistencies here.

[bzakharin]

Population alone is not necessarily enough to be a control city. In NJ, Hamilton has a larger population than Trenton, but Trenton, which is used as a control city on many roads (I-295, Turnpike, NJ 29, etc) is a real city with a downtown, while Hamilton is just a collection of communities. Of course Trenton is the capital, so that might be part of it. I don't know what's special about New Haven, but I remember reading somewhere that on the Metro North line more commuters travel to New Haven than away from it (toward NYC), something that is not true of Bridgeport.

[jaehak]

Bridgeport is Connecticut's largest city by population, yet New Haven gets control right from The Bronx in NYC.

Concord, NH gets to be control city from Boston Northward on I-93 (at least from I-95 and some others)yet you have to pass through Manchester to get to it. Last time I checked Manchester is New Hampshire's largest city and has more people than Concord.

In both cases New Haven and Concord are used because of its other major 2 digit interstates over the larger ones without any interstate junction.  Manchester has I-293, but that one does not count as its a loop off its parent.

New Haven and Concord are far better known than Bridgeport and Manchester. Yale is in New Haven. Concord is the state capital.

[Rothman]

Bridgeport is Connecticut's largest city by population, yet New Haven gets control right from The Bronx in NYC.

Concord, NH gets to be control city from Boston Northward on I-93 (at least from I-95 and some others)yet you have to pass through Manchester to get to it. Last time I checked Manchester is New Hampshire's largest city and has more people than Concord.

In both cases New Haven and Concord are used because of its other major 2 digit interstates over the larger ones without any interstate junction.  Manchester has I-293, but that one does not count as its a loop off its parent.

New Haven and Concord are far better known than Bridgeport and Manchester. Yale is in New Haven. Concord is the state capital.

Actually, Yale is known for having walled New Haven out.   Bridgeport's much larger.  Not Connecticut's fault that Bridgeport is just a bigger pit than New Haven is.

In other words, it's all subjective from the logic you presented.

[Henry]

I was wondering why Illinois does not sign I-90 Westbound with a larger city someplace along its route, then it occurred to me that between Chicago and Seattle there is no large ( I mean a large one that IDOT considers to be one for interstate to interstate that is).  Also, we have the Tollways that are not IDOT which factors in to that equation as well.

I was wondering if IDOT did maintain the tollways and had their own way of doing things on the Northwest Tollway would they use Seattle, Madison, Minneapolis ( served by I-90 indirectly via I-94 at the split), or use their own city of Rockford?

Yeah, it somehow bugs me that I-90 serves neither Milwaukee nor Minneapolis/St. Paul. But I'm sure that they could get away with signing Rockford and Madison at least. Seattle is asking a bit much, since it's 2,063 miles away, and even then you'd be using I-94 along the way.

[roadman]

Prior to the 1991-1992 sign replacement projects on I-93 between Somerville and Methuen, the northbound control city was Salem NH - some signs had the NH, and others didn't.  It was changed to Concord NH on the replacement signs in response to a specific request by the Salem MA Chamber of Commerce, who allegedly got some visitor complaints that they wound up in the wrong Salem.

Manchester NH was not used for two reasons - it wasn't on the AASHTO Control Cities list at the time the I-93 projects were designed, and there is also a Manchester MA - now "Manchester By The Sea", but the formal name is not used on highway signs.

[noelbotevera]

Bridgeport is Connecticut's largest city by population, yet New Haven gets control right from The Bronx in NYC.

Concord, NH gets to be control city from Boston Northward on I-93 (at least from I-95 and some others)yet you have to pass through Manchester to get to it. Last time I checked Manchester is New Hampshire's largest city and has more people than Concord.

In both cases New Haven and Concord are used because of its other major 2 digit interstates over the larger ones without any interstate junction.  Manchester has I-293, but that one does not count as its a loop off its parent.

Bridgeport becomes the control city (if I remember) south of Stamford near the NY line. It then becomes New Haven, then New London, then Providence.

If Bridgeport is used it has to be new, as for ages ago the CT Turnpike was consistent with their signing except east of New Haven where both Providence and the state name Rhode Island were either used on EB (I-95 NB) ramps. In New York City it was "New England" but in Westchester I cannot be sure as I only saw the east end of I-287 with "Connecticut" as I-95 N Bound control back in 1988.

Sometimes one particular interchange will be different than others.  Maybe even a small group in one area may differ from the norm of the freeway segments in the region like in NY State with Montreal being the free I-87 section north of the Thruway control city as from NY 7 W Bound ( I saw this back in 2000) the control city being "Saratoga Springs" and of course back in 2012 ( I have the photo I took then) of E Bound NY 5 at I-87 using Saratoga Springs.  I am guessing that some of the Capital Region area ramps are chosen with a more local destination then the ultimate ones, as from into the next county north of Albany the City of Montreal is signed up until at least Lake George (as I have not yet in my adult life clinched I-87 north of the NY 9N connector at Exit 22 to the Canada Border to know for sure).

I only drove to Providence in 2008 or 2009 - I was 5 years old at the time, but I can faintly remember button copy signs saying "I-95 NORTH
Bridgeport"

[PHLBOS]

Prior to the 1991-1992 sign replacement projects on I-93 between Somerville and Methuen, the northbound control city was Salem NH - some signs had the NH, and others didn't.  It was changed to Concord NH on the replacement signs in response to a specific request by the Salem MA Chamber of Commerce, who allegedly got some visitor complaints that they wound up in the wrong Salem.

Lawrence was also used as an I-93 northbound control city on signage as well but was dropped during the 90s.  What was the reasoning for such... especially since similar-size & type Lowell is still used on US 3 northbound signage?

Manchester NH was not used for two reasons - it wasn't on the AASHTO Control Cities list at the time the I-93 projects were designed, and there is also a Manchester MA - now "Manchester By The Sea", but the formal name is not used on highway signs.

Of course, there's also a Concord, MA as well. 

[The Nature Boy]

Prior to the 1991-1992 sign replacement projects on I-93 between Somerville and Methuen, the northbound control city was Salem NH - some signs had the NH, and others didn't.  It was changed to Concord NH on the replacement signs in response to a specific request by the Salem MA Chamber of Commerce, who allegedly got some visitor complaints that they wound up in the wrong Salem.

Lawrence was also used as an I-93 northbound control city on signage as well but was dropped during the 90s.  What was the reasoning for such... especially since similar-size & type Lowell is still used on US 3 northbound signage?

Manchester NH was not used for two reasons - it wasn't on the AASHTO Control Cities list at the time the I-93 projects were designed, and there is also a Manchester MA - now "Manchester By The Sea", but the formal name is not used on highway signs.

Of course, there's also a Concord, MA as well. 

And the Concord in MA is famous to anyone who has read about the Revolutionary War.

I can see the case for Lumberton as a control city in NC. I feel like Fayetteville is more useful for now, at least until the eastern I-74 leaves North Carolina.

[Zzonkmiles]

I just thought of something. South of DC on I-95, the control city is Richmond, which is perfectly logical. But given the discussion of I-95 in NC and its tiny control cities, would it also be logical to replace Richmond with Fredericksburg--a city of far greater significance than the Wilsons and Dunns of the world?

[jwolfer]

Bridgeport is Connecticut's largest city by population, yet New Haven gets control right from The Bronx in NYC.

Concord, NH gets to be control city from Boston Northward on I-93 (at least from I-95 and some others)yet you have to pass through Manchester to get to it. Last time I checked Manchester is New Hampshire's largest city and has more people than Concord.

In both cases New Haven and Concord are used because of its other major 2 digit interstates over the larger ones without any interstate junction.  Manchester has I-293, but that one does not count as its a loop off its parent.

Bridgeport becomes the control city (if I remember) south of Stamford near the NY line. It then becomes New Haven, then New London, then Providence.

If Bridgeport is used it has to be new, as for ages ago the CT Turnpike was consistent with their signing except east of New Haven where both Providence and the state name Rhode Island were either used on EB (I-95 NB) ramps. In New York City it was "New England" but in Westchester I cannot be sure as I only saw the east end of I-287 with "Connecticut" as I-95 N Bound control back in 1988.

Sometimes one particular interchange will be different than others.  Maybe even a small group in one area may differ from the norm of the freeway segments in the region like in NY State with Montreal being the free I-87 section north of the Thruway control city as from NY 7 W Bound ( I saw this back in 2000) the control city being "Saratoga Springs" and of course back in 2012 ( I have the photo I took then) of E Bound NY 5 at I-87 using Saratoga Springs.  I am guessing that some of the Capital Region area ramps are chosen with a more local destination then the ultimate ones, as from into the next county north of Albany the City of Montreal is signed up until at least Lake George (as I have not yet in my adult life clinched I-87 north of the NY 9N connector at Exit 22 to the Canada Border to know for sure).

I only drove to Providence in 2008 or 2009 - I was 5 years old at the time, but I can faintly remember button copy signs saying "I-95 NORTH
Bridgeport"

I have memories of road signs from being a small kid.. I vividly remember seeing "junction" spelled out on the sign where US 17 met US 84 near Brunswick, GA.. Yes it was 84. They swaped numbers sometime around 1980. I-95 had a gap so it had to be 1977 or before

[jbnati27]

One thing that has frustrated me about I-77 north of Charlotte is how even though there are no cities of any real significance at all until you reach Charleston, WV, the control cities keep changing. I think the control cities north of Charlotte are Statesville (fine), Elkin (wait, what?), Fort Chiswell (wait, what?) and Bluefield or Beckley (I can't remember; I'm not from the area, so I can't judge here). Then the control city becomes Charleston. But the control cities south of Charleston are Bluefield/Beckley and Charlotte only. Those no-name towns are totally ignored. I don't like the inconsistencies here.

Those have always driven me nuts, too. At least Statesville has a junction with I-40. I think Mt. Airy (another wait, what?) makes an appearance, too. Wytheville, VA also appears, but that one makes sense because there's a junction and overlap with I-81.

[Henry]

One thing that has frustrated me about I-77 north of Charlotte is how even though there are no cities of any real significance at all until you reach Charleston, WV, the control cities keep changing. I think the control cities north of Charlotte are Statesville (fine), Elkin (wait, what?), Fort Chiswell (wait, what?) and Bluefield or Beckley (I can't remember; I'm not from the area, so I can't judge here). Then the control city becomes Charleston. But the control cities south of Charleston are Bluefield/Beckley and Charlotte only. Those no-name towns are totally ignored. I don't like the inconsistencies here.

Those have always driven me nuts, too. At least Statesville has a junction with I-40. I think Mt. Airy (another wait, what?) makes an appearance, too. Wytheville, VA also appears, but that one makes sense because there's a junction and overlap with I-81.

Mt. Airy is where I-74 meets I-77, so that makes sense as a control city between Statesville and Wytheville.