Interstate to Montgomery, AL

[leroys73]

OK all you informed brains out there.  I have made the trip from Dallas to Montgomery, AL and back several times over the last 40 years. 

My question is why is there not an interstate connecting I-20 near the MS AL border to Montgomery, the state capital?  It has always seemed strange to me. US 80 for the most part is a good highway but very slow at times because of the towns. I fully understand why there is one to Birmingham.

Does this go back to when the Federal Government was pissed at George Wallace?

Of course it would be nice to have one connecting Montgomery to Tallahassee, FL but that is one for Fictional.

[pumpkineater2]

Maybe traffic volumes just didn't require an interstate at the time?

I think I-20 should have gone through Montgomery and Columbus, passing south of Macon to end in Savannah, GA

[froggie]

Montgomery was basically a hole-in-the-wall at the time.  Even today, traffic only barely justifies 4 lanes and not a freeway corridor.  It predates George Wallace by a couple of decades.

That said, for many years recently, Alabama looked at an I-85 extension west to I-20/59, and concluded a study about 5 years ago.  The study website is no longer online, unfortunately.

[US 41]

Are there still plans to build an I-85 western extension or have those plans been cancelled?

[Grzrd]

That said, for many years recently, Alabama looked at an I-85 extension west to I-20/59, and concluded a study about 5 years ago.  The study website is no longer online, unfortunately.

Alabama also received, in October, 2010, conditional approval from AASHTO to relocate and extend I-85 to I-20/ 59 near Cuba, AL:

[leroys73]

I think I-20 should have gone through Montgomery and Columbus, passing south of Macon to end in Savannah, GA
[/quote]

I thought about that one and originally naming the section of I-20 from Birmingham east maybe I-22.  Of course if interstate from MS AL line east to Macon, then it could be named I-16 as to avoid some signage expenses. 

Thanks for the input.  It has been a question I have asked people many times.  In the early years I guessed there would be one by the end of the 90s.

Naming it I-685 in Grzrd's post of the AASHTO naming seems worst, since even three digits are loops, than naming the Cuba-Montomery segment I-85 although running E-W to there.  Maybe something else is in the far future plans for I-85.   

Oh, well.  Thanks again for the reason and clarification.  I'll probably be dead by the time the conditional approval will be funded and acted on.   

[theline]

Montgomery was basically a hole-in-the-wall at the time.  Even today, traffic only barely justifies 4 lanes and not a freeway corridor.  It predates George Wallace by a couple of decades.

That said, for many years recently, Alabama looked at an I-85 extension west to I-20/59, and concluded a study about 5 years ago.  The study website is no longer online, unfortunately.

Montgomery was a minor city, as you point out. In addition, Birmingham was the major industrial city of the Deep South. It made much more sense, at least at that time, to route I-20 through Birmingham.

[mrsman]

It seems to me like a good corridor for an interstate back during planning stages, perhaps as an I-85 extension, but totally unnecessary now. I-20, handling national east-west traffic, is better served by serving the bigger cities of Birmingham and Atlanta.

A largely rural corridor like this though should be 4 lane (2 in each direction) with no traffic lights and occasional grade crossings.  For a good example of a highway like this, see US 101 along CA's central coast.

[leroys73]

I fully understand the Birmingham thing.  However, since there are N, SW, NE interstates serving Montgomery one from the W just seems natural, plus I'd like it.  Agree at least 4 lane, no traffic lights, and few crossings would be great. 

Of course maybe this arrangement is so people can escape Montgomery while not many wanting to go to Mississippi. 

It is about commerce and the three cities Montgomery is served by the connecting interstates are good commerce centers.  I doubt there is much coming in from Meridian, Jackson, or even Shreveport nor leaving to go there.

I am satisfied with all the input and it makes sense. Question answered.

Thanks   

[tidecat]

Naming it I-685 in Grzrd's post of the AASHTO naming seems worst, since even three digits are loops, than naming the Cuba-Montomery segment I-85 although running E-W to there.  Maybe something else is in the far future plans for I-85.   

I-685 is the only 3DI of I-85 beginning with a six. Aside from I-185 in Georgia and South Carolina, there are no duplicate 3DIs of I-85, although there will eventually be an I-285 in North Carolina as well.

It is possible that I-685 could have been slated for the Greenville, South Carolina full beltway, but the northern half was not completed and became I-185 instead.

[peterj920]

I've driven on US 231 between Mintgomery and Panama City Beach several times.  I saw a study on potentially making that an interstate.  That route is miserable to drive passing through multiple towns and traffic signals even in rural areas.   

I notice that Alabama is a rough state to drive through if you're not on an interstate highway.  US 80 and US 231 don't need to be complete freeways.  They can be improved by simply making them expressways with access control.  I'm from Wisconsin and there are many expressways that aren't full freeways but maintain the same non-stop traffic as a freeway would provide by limiting intersections to minor roads and fully bypassing cities.  Would be great if Alabama would start doing that.

[US 41]

They could name an interstate from Cuba to Montgomery "I-14". I've always heard that there were plans to eventually make an I-14 from Alexandria, LA, to Augusta, GA. It seems pretty logical that a route like this would run pass through the following cities: Natchez, Laurel, Meridian, Montgomery, Columbus, and Macon.

[Henry]

Naming it I-685 in Grzrd's post of the AASHTO naming seems worst, since even three digits are loops, than naming the Cuba-Montomery segment I-85 although running E-W to there.  Maybe something else is in the far future plans for I-85.   

I-685 is the only 3DI of I-85 beginning with a six. Aside from I-185 in Georgia and South Carolina, there are no duplicate 3DIs of I-85, although there will eventually be an I-285 in North Carolina as well.

It is possible that I-685 could have been slated for the Greenville, South Carolina full beltway, but the northern half was not completed and became I-185 instead.

Also, there will be an  I-885 in Durham, so all possible 3di's will be used up somewhere along the route. And I-85 will most likely be the first 2di to have all of its 3di numbers being used up, with I-5 getting an asterisk thanks to the hidden I-305 designation in Sacramento, and the slow progress regarding I-905.

Back to the subject: I think the new Interstate from Montgomery to Macon would be better off being a western extension of I-16 from Macon, especially since I-14 is slated to take an entirely different route.

[2Co5_14]

Also, there will be an  I-885 in Durham, so all possible 3di's will be used up somewhere along the route. And I-85 will most likely be the first 2di to have all of its 3di numbers being used up, with I-5 getting an asterisk thanks to the hidden I-305 designation in Sacramento, and the slow progress regarding I-905.

I-90 already has all of its 3di numbers used up (incidentally this all occurs within the state of New York).

[Rothman]

Also, there will be an  I-885 in Durham, so all possible 3di's will be used up somewhere along the route. And I-85 will most likely be the first 2di to have all of its 3di numbers being used up, with I-5 getting an asterisk thanks to the hidden I-305 designation in Sacramento, and the slow progress regarding I-905.

I-90 already has all of its 3di numbers used up (incidentally this all occurs within the state of New York).

^This.

In fact, when I first started at NYSDOT, there were discussions of some connector somewhere from I-90 that people were half-seriously suggesting to be a 4di.

Those were the days...

[CNGL-Leudimin]

Also all of I-x80s appear at one point or another along I-80. Some time ago California had all of them in use, which explains the existence of I-238.

[Grzrd]

... for many years recently, Alabama looked at an I-85 extension west to I-20/59, and concluded a study about 5 years ago.  The study website is no longer online, unfortunately.

Although not as detailed as the study itself, this August 10, 2010 article provides some discussion about the study, including a northern route and a southern route; the article also provides an estimated cost of $2 billion:

... Dallas County Probate Judge Kim Ballard ....
Sen. Richard Shelby of Alabama ....
In 2005 Shelby secured $100 million to allow the state to begin planning, engineering, design and construction of the I-85 extension. This appropriation was included in the SAFETEALU, which authorized federal public transit programs through September 2009.
"Sen. Shelby's $100 million allocation was intended to get the project started so that the state could then build it out,"  Simpson said.
In June 2005 Gov. Bob Riley added $16 million in state funds and directed the Alabama Department of Transportation to expedite the I-85 Extension study process. Two months later, Congress approved SAFETEALU, and the $100 million sought by Shelby.
Shortly after SAFETEALU was signed into law by Bush, ALDOT contracted with Volkert and Associates to complete a corridor study and prepare an environment impact statement to construct a multi-lane, limited access freeway to connect I-85 in Montgomery and I59/20 near the Mississippi state line.
The corridor study determines the type and location of improvement needed for roads and highways, in this case, and to assess potential impacts to the environment . The I-85 extension corridor study includes large sections of six Black Belt counties, including Dallas, Hale, Lowndes, Marengo, Perry and Sumter with some in Autauga and Montgomery counties. The study area encompasses an estimated area of 2,433 square miles, both rural and urban.
Volkert and Associates also prepared a draft environmental impact statement, which the Federal Highway Administration approved April 30. Recently, Vokert and representatives from ALDOT held public hearings across the affected counties, including Dallas ....
Those who attended the meeting saw two routes for the proposed extension: The preferred route, which runs south of Selma from Montgomery, turns north of Uniontown and drops back south of Demopolis, headed west to end just north of Cuba at I-59/20 and a northern route through Autauga County into Dallas County slightly north of Selma, onward to Bogue Chitto Creek and then identical to the preferred route ....
Ballard and others say they doubt they will be alive when the extension comes into fruition. The $100 million provided for purchase of right-of-way, but this interstate will cost close to $2 billion to construct from end-to-end.

[lordsutch]

I notice that Alabama is a rough state to drive through if you're not on an interstate highway.  US 80 and US 231 don't need to be complete freeways.  They can be improved by simply making them expressways with access control.  I'm from Wisconsin and there are many expressways that aren't full freeways but maintain the same non-stop traffic as a freeway would provide by limiting intersections to minor roads and fully bypassing cities.  Would be great if Alabama would start doing that.

Your lips to ALDOT's ear. They seem to have bought up the access rights on some newer projects like the Red Bay (AL 24/Corridor V) and Centreville (US 82) bypasses, but they were years behind neighboring Mississippi in that department.

As for US 231 south of Montgomery, I have no idea why ALDOT has never pursued a federal high priority corridor designation for the route, much less future Interstate designation. Georgia managed to get all of GRIP designated as high priority corridors (!) so it's not like it'd be hard to get it on the list.

[freebrickproductions]

As for US 231 south of Montgomery, I have no idea why ALDOT has never pursued a federal high priority corridor designation for the route, much less future Interstate designation. Georgia managed to get all of GRIP designated as high priority corridors (!) so it's not like it'd be hard to get it on the list.

I'm willing to bet that it's because all of the representatives from along that corridor get extra campaign funds from the towns and businesses along that route if they try to keep it the way it is now.

BTW, it's quicker to take Business US 231 through downtown Dothan than it is to take US 231 around Dothan.

[peterj920]

As for US 231 south of Montgomery, I have no idea why ALDOT has never pursued a federal high priority corridor designation for the route, much less future Interstate designation. Georgia managed to get all of GRIP designated as high priority corridors (!) so it's not like it'd be hard to get it on the list.

I'm willing to bet that it's because all of the representatives from along that corridor get extra campaign funds from the towns and businesses along that route if they try to keep it the way it is now.

BTW, it's quicker to take Business US 231 through downtown Dothan than it is to take US 231 around Dothan.

I've never tried going through Downtown Dothan but I have taken the eastern part of the Dothan Loop around the city and that was quicker than using US 231 and the western loop.  The protected left turn signals for traffic turning onto 231 north can really get backed up.  The eastern loop avoids that situation.

[BamaZeus]

I notice that Alabama is a rough state to drive through if you're not on an interstate highway.  US 80 and US 231 don't need to be complete freeways.  They can be improved by simply making them expressways with access control.  I'm from Wisconsin and there are many expressways that aren't full freeways but maintain the same non-stop traffic as a freeway would provide by limiting intersections to minor roads and fully bypassing cities.  Would be great if Alabama would start doing that.

Your lips to ALDOT's ear. They seem to have bought up the access rights on some newer projects like the Red Bay (AL 24/Corridor V) and Centreville (US 82) bypasses, but they were years behind neighboring Mississippi in that department.

As for US 231 south of Montgomery, I have no idea why ALDOT has never pursued a federal high priority corridor designation for the route, much less future Interstate designation. Georgia managed to get all of GRIP designated as high priority corridors (!) so it's not like it'd be hard to get it on the list.

I might be wrong, but didn't MS DOT get oodles of money from the casino boom in the 90's?  I thought I read where when the casinos were finally allowed in, that they earmarked a ton of money for highways, especially the hurricane evacuation routes.

[froggie]

There was a program defined by legislation with specific roadways or roadway segments to which the casino money could be appropriated.  For example, casino money paid for both MS 67 and the 6-laning of I-10 between Exit 28 and I-110.  But all of the casino money was specifically earmarked.  MDOT could not spend it on other road projects.

[Henry]

Also, there will be an  I-885 in Durham, so all possible 3di's will be used up somewhere along the route. And I-85 will most likely be the first 2di to have all of its 3di numbers being used up, with I-5 getting an asterisk thanks to the hidden I-305 designation in Sacramento, and the slow progress regarding I-905.

I-90 already has all of its 3di numbers used up (incidentally this all occurs within the state of New York).

Also all of I-x80s appear at one point or another along I-80. Some time ago California had all of them in use, which explains the existence of I-238.

Well, now I can see where I went wrong: I failed to mention that I-85 will be the first north-south 2di to have all its 3di numbers used up. And I-5 still gets the asterisk for the reasons previously listed.