News:

Am able to again make updates to the Shield Gallery!
- Alex

Main Menu

The Infamous Push Button

Started by M3019C LPS20, March 26, 2013, 08:54:05 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

M3019C LPS20

Last year, I acquired this vintage pedestrian push button from the city of New York. It dates back to 1969, and it was removed from service in late 2011. I believe it saw service somewhere in the borough of Manhattan.



It lacks electrical continuity, since the actual push button itself was pushed countless times in its years of useful of service. It is a nice piece of New York City traffic control memorabilia, and many pedestrian push buttons throughout the city are slowly dwindling. Despite this, the city continues to install new pedestrian push buttons throughout various locations. Several were installed in recent years by D.O.T. in Prospect Park in Brooklyn, New York, for example.

Although many pedestrian push buttons have been inoperable for over twenty years, some (that are still original) still function as of present day.


Brandon

And, of course, the more you push it, the faster the light will change.  :pan:
"If you think this has a happy ending, you haven't been paying attention." - Ramsay Bolton, "Game of Thrones"

"Symbolic of his struggle against reality." - Reg, "Monty Python's Life of Brian"

kphoger

I didn't know they were infamous.

He Is Already Here! Let's Go, Flamingo!
Dost thou understand the graveness of the circumstances?
Deut 23:13
Male pronouns, please.

Quote from: PKDIf you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use them.

M3019C LPS20

Quote from: kphoger on March 26, 2013, 09:28:03 PM
I didn't know they were infamous.

Come to New York City, and many fellow New Yorkers despise pedestrian push buttons. There's a misconception they didn't work since the get-go. They were once operable, but the city's D.O.T. disconnected many from useful service in the 1980s. Since then, many have been left still intact. Some people still think they work, while others have some really odd beliefs, such as they were originally intended to act as "placebo buttons."

kphoger

Interesting.  I hardly ever push pedestrian buttons.  I wait for the light to turn green (maybe), then I start walking.  I don't care too much about the little white man (ha! insert racist joke here) unless I'm worried about missing out on a stoplight cycle or traffic is heavy and looks like it doesn't feel like yielding.

For what it's worth, I did once get a lecture from a Glen Ellyn (IL) police officer because I crossed on a flashing don't walk signal and hadn't quite made it to the far curb before the yellow light (or red light, maybe, I don't remember exactly).  My daughter and I sat down on the bench to wait for our bus, and the officer parked in the lot behind us and chewed me out.  Lame.  Then again, it was Glen Ellyn.

He Is Already Here! Let's Go, Flamingo!
Dost thou understand the graveness of the circumstances?
Deut 23:13
Male pronouns, please.

Quote from: PKDIf you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use them.

1995hoo

Quote from: Brandon on March 26, 2013, 09:20:18 PM
And, of course, the more you push it, the faster the light will change.  :pan:

Also, it doesn't count if someone else pressed it. (Ever notice how with an elevator the button can be lit up but the next guy will press it four or five times anyway?)
"You know, you never have a guaranteed spot until you have a spot guaranteed."
—Olaf Kolzig, as quoted in the Washington Times on March 28, 2003,
commenting on the Capitals clinching a playoff spot.

"That sounded stupid, didn't it?"
—Kolzig, to the same reporter a few seconds later.

kphoger

Have you ever walked up to an elevator that already had people waiting, and decided not to be rude and push the button again?  Then stood there for a minute or two with them, waiting, before discovering that none of them had pushed the button to begin with?  I've had that happen once or twice.

He Is Already Here! Let's Go, Flamingo!
Dost thou understand the graveness of the circumstances?
Deut 23:13
Male pronouns, please.

Quote from: PKDIf you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use them.

kphoger

And doesn't that just push your buttons?

He Is Already Here! Let's Go, Flamingo!
Dost thou understand the graveness of the circumstances?
Deut 23:13
Male pronouns, please.

Quote from: PKDIf you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use them.

M3019C LPS20

#8
Quote from: kphoger on March 26, 2013, 09:58:18 PM
Interesting.  I hardly ever push pedestrian buttons.  I wait for the light to turn green (maybe), then I start walking.  I don't care too much about the little white man (ha! insert racist joke here) unless I'm worried about missing out on a stoplight cycle or traffic is heavy and looks like it doesn't feel like yielding.

For what it's worth, I did once get a lecture from a Glen Ellyn (IL) police officer because I crossed on a flashing don't walk signal and hadn't quite made it to the far curb before the yellow light (or red light, maybe, I don't remember exactly).  My daughter and I sat down on the bench to wait for our bus, and the officer parked in the lot behind us and chewed me out.  Lame.  Then again, it was Glen Ellyn.

Here in New Jersey, many pedestrian signals are actuated. With that said, most pedestrian push buttons work properly. I normally push a nearby push button before I cross a street.

With regards to New York City's story, pedestrian push buttons were first introduced and installed in the 1960s. Additionally, vehicle detection was also in use. The city was particularly fond of loop detection. So, for a while, many signalized intersections throughout the boroughs were semi-actuated. It was not until the end of the 1970s, though, that traffic volume significantly increased in the city. Semi-actuated signalized intersection weren't ideal at this time, so, in the 1980s, D.O.T. decided to disconnect countless pedestrian push buttons from useful service. Furthermore, most signal controllers were now pre-timed, since vehicle detection equipment was disconnected as well. Aside from many inoperable pedestrian push buttons that are still intact, you could still see many original loops and splice boxes in existence in some of the boroughs as well.



kphoger

Quote from: M3019C LPS20 on March 26, 2013, 10:21:19 PM
Quote from: kphoger on March 26, 2013, 09:58:18 PM
Interesting.  I hardly ever push pedestrian buttons.  I wait for the light to turn green (maybe), then I start walking.  I don't care too much about the little white man (ha! insert racist joke here) unless I'm worried about missing out on a stoplight cycle or traffic is heavy and looks like it doesn't feel like yielding.

For what it's worth, I did once get a lecture from a Glen Ellyn (IL) police officer because I crossed on a flashing don't walk signal and hadn't quite made it to the far curb before the yellow light (or red light, maybe, I don't remember exactly).  My daughter and I sat down on the bench to wait for our bus, and the officer parked in the lot behind us and chewed me out.  Lame.  Then again, it was Glen Ellyn.

Here in New Jersey, many pedestrian signals are actuated. With that said, most pedestrian push buttons work properly. I normally push a nearby push button before I cross a street.

Maybe you did understand, but let me clarify in case you didn't:  I typically cross the street on a DON'T WALK signal, as long as the traffic signal has turned green; I only push the button to get a WALK signal if I feel some need for it.  Of course, most ped signals around here are timed anyway.....

He Is Already Here! Let's Go, Flamingo!
Dost thou understand the graveness of the circumstances?
Deut 23:13
Male pronouns, please.

Quote from: PKDIf you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use them.

M3019C LPS20

Quote from: kphoger on March 26, 2013, 10:25:25 PM
Quote from: M3019C LPS20 on March 26, 2013, 10:21:19 PM
Quote from: kphoger on March 26, 2013, 09:58:18 PM
Interesting.  I hardly ever push pedestrian buttons.  I wait for the light to turn green (maybe), then I start walking.  I don't care too much about the little white man (ha! insert racist joke here) unless I'm worried about missing out on a stoplight cycle or traffic is heavy and looks like it doesn't feel like yielding.

For what it's worth, I did once get a lecture from a Glen Ellyn (IL) police officer because I crossed on a flashing don't walk signal and hadn't quite made it to the far curb before the yellow light (or red light, maybe, I don't remember exactly).  My daughter and I sat down on the bench to wait for our bus, and the officer parked in the lot behind us and chewed me out.  Lame.  Then again, it was Glen Ellyn.

Here in New Jersey, many pedestrian signals are actuated. With that said, most pedestrian push buttons work properly. I normally push a nearby push button before I cross a street.

Maybe you did understand, but let me clarify in case you didn't:  I typically cross the street on a DON'T WALK signal, as long as the traffic signal has turned green; I only push the button to get a WALK signal if I feel some need for it.  Of course, most ped signals around here are timed anyway.....

I did. I was just talking in general. That's all.

Since I am a fanatic of signals and traffic control equipment, I enjoy to push a pedestrian push button and watch an actuated pedestrian signal operate in its cycle at an intersection.

deathtopumpkins

I don't know how common this is in other cities, but here in Boston many pedestrian signals are set to activate as part of the light cycle, regardless of whether the button is pushed or not during the day, so the button only actually does anything at all during off-peak hours (i.e. nights and weekends).
Disclaimer: All posts represent my personal opinions and not those of my employer.

Clinched Highways | Counties Visited

empirestate

Quote from: kphoger on March 26, 2013, 10:25:25 PM
Maybe you did understand, but let me clarify in case you didn't:  I typically cross the street on a DON'T WALK signal, as long as the traffic signal has turned green; I only push the button to get a WALK signal if I feel some need for it.  Of course, most ped signals around here are timed anyway.....

I do that too, if only because the timing is such that I'll often have a don't walk even though I'm crossing parallel to a straight-through green-and-green-left arrow cycle with the right turn channel already behind me! (In other words, no possible traffic conflict.) No reason to sit and wait for the eventual walk sign, by which time of course I'll be assailed by oncoming left-turning traffic across my path!

realjd

Australia is the only country that's figured out how to properly do pedestrian buttons. I don't know why the rest of us insist on using inconsistent, confusing buttons.

agentsteel53

Quote from: realjd on March 27, 2013, 01:15:48 AM
Australia is the only country that's figured out how to properly do pedestrian buttons. I don't know why the rest of us insist on using inconsistent, confusing buttons.

how do they do it?
live from sunny San Diego.

http://shields.aaroads.com

jake@aaroads.com

jeffandnicole

Quote from: kphoger on March 26, 2013, 10:25:25 PM
Quote from: M3019C LPS20 on March 26, 2013, 10:21:19 PM
Quote from: kphoger on March 26, 2013, 09:58:18 PM
Interesting.  I hardly ever push pedestrian buttons.  I wait for the light to turn green (maybe), then I start walking.  I don't care too much about the little white man (ha! insert racist joke here) unless I'm worried about missing out on a stoplight cycle or traffic is heavy and looks like it doesn't feel like yielding.

For what it's worth, I did once get a lecture from a Glen Ellyn (IL) police officer because I crossed on a flashing don't walk signal and hadn't quite made it to the far curb before the yellow light (or red light, maybe, I don't remember exactly).  My daughter and I sat down on the bench to wait for our bus, and the officer parked in the lot behind us and chewed me out.  Lame.  Then again, it was Glen Ellyn.

Here in New Jersey, many pedestrian signals are actuated. With that said, most pedestrian push buttons work properly. I normally push a nearby push button before I cross a street.

Maybe you did understand, but let me clarify in case you didn't:  I typically cross the street on a DON'T WALK signal, as long as the traffic signal has turned green; I only push the button to get a WALK signal if I feel some need for it.  Of course, most ped signals around here are timed anyway.....

If you get a ticket, and you insist on a jury trial, and I'm sitting on that jury, you are so getting the death penalty for your careless disregard of the 'Hand'.

jeffandnicole

Quote from: empirestate on March 26, 2013, 11:45:16 PM
Quote from: kphoger on March 26, 2013, 10:25:25 PM
Maybe you did understand, but let me clarify in case you didn't:  I typically cross the street on a DON'T WALK signal, as long as the traffic signal has turned green; I only push the button to get a WALK signal if I feel some need for it.  Of course, most ped signals around here are timed anyway.....

I do that too, if only because the timing is such that I'll often have a don't walk even though I'm crossing parallel to a straight-through green-and-green-left arrow cycle with the right turn channel already behind me! (In other words, no possible traffic conflict.) No reason to sit and wait for the eventual walk sign, by which time of course I'll be assailed by oncoming left-turning traffic across my path!

I always like the psychological differences between driving and walking.  A driver has no problem (generally) sitting at a red light, waiting for it to turn green.  Some drivers will do this even though they can legally make a right on red.  But that same driver will disregard a walk/don't walk signal, because they don't feel like waiting less than a minute to cross.

empirestate

Quote from: jeffandnicole on March 27, 2013, 09:46:21 AM
I always like the psychological differences between driving and walking.  A driver has no problem (generally) sitting at a red light, waiting for it to turn green.  Some drivers will do this even though they can legally make a right on red.  But that same driver will disregard a walk/don't walk signal, because they don't feel like waiting less than a minute to cross.

I take your point, and I apply the same curiosity just within driving alone (why did that guy tailgate me yesterday, rather than simply passing me on the left shoulder, both of which are equally prohibited?).

In the situation I describe, however, I cross when I do because it's the safer, more protected part of the cycle for me to do so. Because so many of the signals around here are pre-timed, you often end up with sort of default signals that don't make a lot of sense, as opposed to more carefully programmed systems that make a point of working out the pedestrian cycle to match the vehicular one.

Otherwise, I'm also bemused by many of the choices pedestrians make. You'll often find me standing at the curb far longer than everyone else, as they stream into the intersection at any possible chance, and often when there isn't a chance. I can understand the reasoning behind crossing during a break in traffic, though I myself am rarely in such a hurry that I find it worth risking. But I'm much more curious about those who decide to cross when there is traffic coming instead of when there isn't (and who don't otherwise seem to be in much hurry).

realjd

Quote from: agentsteel53 on March 27, 2013, 09:22:21 AM
Quote from: realjd on March 27, 2013, 01:15:48 AM
Australia is the only country that's figured out how to properly do pedestrian buttons. I don't know why the rest of us insist on using inconsistent, confusing buttons.

how do they do it?

Sorry - I meant to come back this morning and post more info but forgot. They consistently use these blue arrow buttons:



The arrow points in the direction you want to cross. Compare with American crosswalks which often are labeled "Push button to cross xxx street" which is quite confusing if there are no street signs.

They also beep quietly so blind folks can find them and make a distinctive noise and rapidly click when the walk sign is on, as seen in this video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LL1YQ7esz48

I much prefer the beeping and clicking noises to the overly loud, obnoxious "Walk sign is on" voice that accessible crosswalks in the US typically use.

The biggest benefit is consistency though. Every crosswalk we encountered anywhere in the county had identical crosswalk controls. Here it varies even within a single jurisdiction.

deathtopumpkins

Quote from: realjd on March 27, 2013, 02:15:20 PM
Quote from: agentsteel53 on March 27, 2013, 09:22:21 AM
Quote from: realjd on March 27, 2013, 01:15:48 AM
Australia is the only country that's figured out how to properly do pedestrian buttons. I don't know why the rest of us insist on using inconsistent, confusing buttons.

how do they do it?

Sorry - I meant to come back this morning and post more info but forgot. They consistently use these blue arrow buttons:



The arrow points in the direction you want to cross. Compare with American crosswalks which often are labeled "Push button to cross xxx street" which is quite confusing if there are no street signs.

They also beep quietly so blind folks can find them and make a distinctive noise and rapidly click when the walk sign is on, as seen in this video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LL1YQ7esz48

I much prefer the beeping and clicking noises to the overly loud, obnoxious "Walk sign is on" voice that accessible crosswalks in the US typically use.

The biggest benefit is consistency though. Every crosswalk we encountered anywhere in the county had identical crosswalk controls. Here it varies even within a single jurisdiction.

I've never once been confused by a pedestrian signal button. I'd say it is pretty much always obvious which street it is referring to, either because it has an arrow like in that Australian example, or it has a sign with an arrow pointing the correct direction. Even the older ones here in Boston that just have an embossed metal "Push button wait for walk signal" sign above the button are always fairly obvious, either because there is only 1 crosswalk from that corner or because the button is facing where people would stand to wait to cross in one crosswalk rather than the other.

I see no point in standardizing this nationwide. That would be a tremendously expensive example of fixing something that's not broken.
Disclaimer: All posts represent my personal opinions and not those of my employer.

Clinched Highways | Counties Visited

empirestate

Quote from: realjd on March 27, 2013, 02:15:20 PM
The arrow points in the direction you want to cross. Compare with American crosswalks which often are labeled "Push button to cross xxx street" which is quite confusing if there are no street signs....The biggest benefit is consistency though. Every crosswalk we encountered anywhere in the county had identical crosswalk controls. Here it varies even within a single jurisdiction.

I agree that inconsistency abounds as far as which button controls which direction: the parallel street or the perpendicular one. Besides the street name, I've also seen signs with an arrow pointing the direction of the crossing, or I've seen the arrow painted on the button housing itself, or in some cases, no indication at all.

Sometimes the button housings are oriented in line with the crossings they control, which is reasonably intuitive, or 180 degrees opposite, which is less visually intuitive but more physically so, as you'd push the button directly in front of you as you're facing the way you plan to cross. But sometimes the buttons are oriented 90 degrees from the crossings they control, which yet again could seem logical: in that case you stick your hand out to one side and push the button that you naturally pass by as you're walking in the direction you plan to cross.

Quote from: deathtopumpkins on March 27, 2013, 02:42:12 PM
I see no point in standardizing this nationwide. That would be a tremendously expensive example of fixing something that's not broken.

I can't say I have an opinion on that one way or the other, except that unclear cases should be remedied. On one hand, I enjoy the fact that not everything's the same everywhere in the U.S., but on the other, I don't think this is something that would noticeably disappoint me were it to be standardized. Still, like mileage-based vs. sequential exit numbering, I do often take the position that some things aren't so important to fix that they justify the expense and energy that would be required to do so.

realjd

Quote from: deathtopumpkins on March 27, 2013, 02:42:12 PM
I've never once been confused by a pedestrian signal button. I'd say it is pretty much always obvious which street it is referring to, either because it has an arrow like in that Australian example, or it has a sign with an arrow pointing the correct direction. Even the older ones here in Boston that just have an embossed metal "Push button wait for walk signal" sign above the button are always fairly obvious, either because there is only 1 crosswalk from that corner or because the button is facing where people would stand to wait to cross in one crosswalk rather than the other.

I see no point in standardizing this nationwide. That would be a tremendously expensive example of fixing something that's not broken.

Some have arrows, yes. I didn't say every crosswalk was bad. But much of the US still marks their crosswalks "Push button to cross Elm Street" or such. That's not particularly helpful if you don't know which street is Elm, especially when no street signs are present like in many suburban areas. That IS a problem. And how is an arrow printed on a sign helpful to someone who's blind?

I'm not advocating immediately replacing every crosswalk control with a nationalized standard one. I just think we could do a better job overall.

1995hoo

I used a pedestrian signal push-button today that had the arrow on the button itself (corner of Main Street and Chain Bridge Road in Fairfax, Virginia; I was crossing Chain Bridge en route to the bank and the courthouse). It made a clicking noise during the "Don't Walk" phase and then made a sort of chirping sound (not really like a bird, I just don't have a better word for it) when the light changed. Didn't take a picture of it because it was a couple of hours prior to realjd's post with that picture from Australia. They still had a sign posted above the button, though.

If I remember I will take a picture next time I'm there, although usually I don't cross at that particular intersection.
"You know, you never have a guaranteed spot until you have a spot guaranteed."
—Olaf Kolzig, as quoted in the Washington Times on March 28, 2003,
commenting on the Capitals clinching a playoff spot.

"That sounded stupid, didn't it?"
—Kolzig, to the same reporter a few seconds later.

kphoger

For the record, I've never once seen a pedestrian button with a sign that actually spells out which street the button is for; the only signs I've seen have said simply "Push button to cross street" (gee, thanks, no crap).  I've also never once seen a pedestrian signal that had a loud voice saying "Walk signal is on".  So I guess I'm sort of doubting how typical these are of American design.  On the contrary, I often can't tell for sure which direction a certain button is for.  If I feel the need to call for a WALK signal in that kind of situation, then I just push both buttons and figure one of them will be right.

He Is Already Here! Let's Go, Flamingo!
Dost thou understand the graveness of the circumstances?
Deut 23:13
Male pronouns, please.

Quote from: PKDIf you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use them.

NE2

The ones here usually give the street name.
pre-1945 Florida route log

I accept and respect your identity as long as it's not dumb shit like "identifying as a vaccinated attack helicopter".



Opinions expressed here on belong solely to the poster and do not represent or reflect the opinions or beliefs of AARoads, its creators and/or associates.