Essentially non-existent destinations

[jeffandnicole]

https://goo.gl/maps/8cF1hdym4yn  -  I-295's Exit 15 in NJ.  Specifically, Harrisonville.

It's an odd city for the exit.  I can only imagine someone from DOT lived in that area and wanted it posted somewhere on the highway.

The population is only about 150 people, living in a handful of houses.  Harrisonville is actually part of South Harrison Township, which gets no love on any exit sign.  As far as I know, there's no signage telling you you're actually in Harrisonville; not even a school, fire station or post office.  From what I can tell, you won't find it on Google Maps unless you actually type in "Harrisonville".   There is Harrisonville Lake, and two roads with Harrisonville in its name. 

Exits 7, 10, 11, & 14 are all closer to Harrisonville than Exit 15, where it's 9 miles and a few towns away.  Especially going north, you would've bypassed the town long before reaching this exit.

I see a post office on Google Maps; also a church, police station, elementary school–all in all, an appreciable settlement. Only thing I can say is that it's pretty far removed from the Interstate to be signed there, but the place itself isn't totally negligible.

The post office, police station & school are in South Harrison, not Harrisonville.  There's no separate zip code for Harrisonville.  And the 1 church that is within what is considered Harrisonville itself doesn't use Harrisonville in its name.  Thus, you'd drive thru the area and never realize you were in it.

[NE2]

There's no separate zip code for Harrisonville.

Um.

Default City Name in ZIP Code™ 08039
Please use the default city whenever possible.
HARRISONVILLE NJ

[lepidopteran]

Another Sta: https://goo.gl/maps/S2kUSm6C1PD2

Here's yet another:
https://www.google.com/maps/@40.2680566,-74.4930104,3a,75y,292.56h,92.29t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sl27LewRj4N269IuYz5mYnQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

Although this is a jughandle-LGS, it actually likely qualifies for this thread.  Cranbury Station is unincorporated, and the station it refers to hasn't seen passengers in at least 50 years.  (It's on a very lightly used industrial track, which now comes to an end about a mile south of there, just after it ducks under the NJ Turnpike.)  There are now some residential areas near Cranbury Station, but when the sign was first put up circa 1970 with the dualization of NJ-33, it was pretty much all farmland, save an industrial building or two along the tracks.  Even today you have to take multiple narrow farm roads to get there from that jughandle; the Probasco Rd. bridge over the Millstone River had a wooden deck until recently.  Applegarth Rd., a couple of intersections east of there, would be a better bet.

Cranbury Station is not to be confused with Cranbury Township, which is better accessed via US-130.

[empirestate]

https://goo.gl/maps/8cF1hdym4yn  -  I-295's Exit 15 in NJ.  Specifically, Harrisonville.

It's an odd city for the exit.  I can only imagine someone from DOT lived in that area and wanted it posted somewhere on the highway.

The population is only about 150 people, living in a handful of houses.  Harrisonville is actually part of South Harrison Township, which gets no love on any exit sign.  As far as I know, there's no signage telling you you're actually in Harrisonville; not even a school, fire station or post office.  From what I can tell, you won't find it on Google Maps unless you actually type in "Harrisonville".   There is Harrisonville Lake, and two roads with Harrisonville in its name. 

Exits 7, 10, 11, & 14 are all closer to Harrisonville than Exit 15, where it's 9 miles and a few towns away.  Especially going north, you would've bypassed the town long before reaching this exit.

I see a post office on Google Maps; also a church, police station, elementary school–all in all, an appreciable settlement. Only thing I can say is that it's pretty far removed from the Interstate to be signed there, but the place itself isn't totally negligible.

The post office, police station & school are in South Harrison, not Harrisonville.  There's no separate zip code for Harrisonville.  And the 1 church that is within what is considered Harrisonville itself doesn't use Harrisonville in its name.  Thus, you'd drive thru the area and never realize you were in it.

Google gives this address for the post office: 34 Main St, Harrisonville, NJ 08039 (https://goo.gl/maps/1k5vK8YYNm72)
...this for the school: 904 Mullica Hill Rd, Harrisonville, NJ 08039
...and this for the police station: 664 Harrisonville Rd, Harrisonville, NJ 08039.

Then there's https://goo.gl/maps/eiGQKXw3At82, and as a general view of the place: https://goo.gl/maps/41bvAzcZiW62.

Sorry, I'm having a hard time seeing this one as essentially non-existent!

[roadman65]

I saw that particular sign many years ago living and traveling through New Jersey.  I think its more of a fulfillment destination than a control city.  Bascically NJDOT just wants to give a destination at either end of the road not so much to guide motorists there.

Its like I-84 at NY 17K near Newburgh, NY using "Montgomery" as well as Newburgh for that particular exit, even Eastbound where if you really wanted to go to Montgomery you would have previously exited onto NY 208 N Bound and then west on NY 17K.   It is just that Montgomery and Newburgh are both used because the first major settlement west of I-84 on NY 17K is Mongomery and the first city east of I-84 for the state route is Newburgh hence both "Newburgh" and "Montgomery" for Exit 6 on I-84. 

[empirestate]

I saw that particular sign many years ago living and traveling through New Jersey.  I think its more of a fulfillment destination than a control city.  Bascically NJDOT just wants to give a destination at either end of the road not so much to guide motorists there.

Its like I-84 at NY 17K near Newburgh, NY using "Montgomery" as well as Newburgh for that particular exit, even Eastbound where if you really wanted to go to Montgomery you would have previously exited onto NY 208 N Bound and then west on NY 17K.   It is just that Montgomery and Newburgh are both used because the first major settlement west of I-84 on NY 17K is Mongomery and the first city east of I-84 for the state route is Newburgh hence both "Newburgh" and "Montgomery" for Exit 6 on I-84. 

I'm afraid I still don't follow you. All the places you've mentioned are pretty significant: Montgomery is a substantial village, Newburgh is another city, etc.

I mean, take another place someone mentioned recently: here's a view of Boracho (Station), TX: https://goo.gl/maps/vbdmNSQnSzR2

Here's Middletown, NY: https://goo.gl/maps/njqzMWEuBap

And Montgomery, NY: https://goo.gl/maps/kxYM3sPZPKp

As you can see, Boracho really is non-existent. The others? Heck of a lot more going on there!

[Zeffy]

Not exactly what the OP intended, but how many times have you seen Hillsborough on a sign in New Jersey? I can't think of any offhand, and it seems like Google Maps doesn't even acknowledge us anymore!
https://www.google.com/maps/@40.5028316,-74.6630719,13z?hl=en

A town of about 40K residents, but we're definitely non-existent on road signs. Most of the signs say Belle Meade instead, which is in neighboring Montgomery Township.

[jeffandnicole]

https://goo.gl/maps/8cF1hdym4yn  -  I-295's Exit 15 in NJ.  Specifically, Harrisonville.

It's an odd city for the exit.  I can only imagine someone from DOT lived in that area and wanted it posted somewhere on the highway.

The population is only about 150 people, living in a handful of houses.  Harrisonville is actually part of South Harrison Township, which gets no love on any exit sign.  As far as I know, there's no signage telling you you're actually in Harrisonville; not even a school, fire station or post office.  From what I can tell, you won't find it on Google Maps unless you actually type in "Harrisonville".   There is Harrisonville Lake, and two roads with Harrisonville in its name. 

Exits 7, 10, 11, & 14 are all closer to Harrisonville than Exit 15, where it's 9 miles and a few towns away.  Especially going north, you would've bypassed the town long before reaching this exit.

I see a post office on Google Maps; also a church, police station, elementary school–all in all, an appreciable settlement. Only thing I can say is that it's pretty far removed from the Interstate to be signed there, but the place itself isn't totally negligible.

The post office, police station & school are in South Harrison, not Harrisonville.  There's no separate zip code for Harrisonville.  And the 1 church that is within what is considered Harrisonville itself doesn't use Harrisonville in its name.  Thus, you'd drive thru the area and never realize you were in it.

Google gives this address for the post office: 34 Main St, Harrisonville, NJ 08039 (https://goo.gl/maps/1k5vK8YYNm72)
...this for the school: 904 Mullica Hill Rd, Harrisonville, NJ 08039
...and this for the police station: 664 Harrisonville Rd, Harrisonville, NJ 08039.

Then there's https://goo.gl/maps/eiGQKXw3At82, and as a general view of the place: https://goo.gl/maps/41bvAzcZiW62.

Sorry, I'm having a hard time seeing this one as essentially non-existent!

There's no separate zip code for Harrisonville.

Um.

Default City Name in ZIP Code™ 08039
Please use the default city whenever possible.
HARRISONVILLE NJ

Fine. Big town. Whatever. I figured (not realizing the post office had Harrisonville on it) that there was nothing the average driver would see driving thru indicating it was Harrisonville. Going around looking up addresses at home does not help a driver If he was driving thru a town.

[empirestate]

Fine. Big town. Whatever. I figured (not realizing the post office had Harrisonville on it) that there was nothing the average driver would see driving thru indicating it was Harrisonville. Going around looking up addresses at home does not help a driver If he was driving thru a town.

That doesn't matter; the driver would certainly realize that he was driving through a town; he wouldn't get there and say "there's nothing here" except hyperbolically. (I realize there's a large proportion of the populace who consider anything under a quarter million to be a "small town", but that's a very different topic.)

And in any case, he certainly would have seen it referred to as Harrisonville: that's what's listed on the sign he followed getting off the freeway. Assuming he navigates successfully to that destination (and the reasons why he mightn't are, again, a different topic), he could arrive there and immediately confirm that he had, indeed, reached a destination.

Not exactly what the OP intended, but how many times have you seen Hillsborough on a sign in New Jersey? I can't think of any offhand, and it seems like Google Maps doesn't even acknowledge us anymore!
https://www.google.com/maps/@40.5028316,-74.6630719,13z?hl=en

A town of about 40K residents, but we're definitely non-existent on road signs. Most of the signs say Belle Meade instead, which is in neighboring Montgomery Township.

It comes up for me; you're referring to Hillsborough Township, right?
https://goo.gl/maps/MWez3cEvqDw

I think what you're noticing is the cartographic treatment of the township as an areal division of land rather than as a locatable place. In theory, a township would be a subdivision of a county and would contain various built-up areas with their own names; there might be a central place with the same name as the township, but maybe not. In some cases, these built-up areas would incorporate separately and (in New Jersey's case) break off from the township. But we're still very much left with the idea that these places, whether separately incorporated or just localities inside the township, amount to "dots on the map" that make good destinations for wayfinding, whereas the township is still a line drawn broadly around an area and thus not appropriately specific for this purpose.

As your daily life shows, of course, this distinction today is incompatible with real development patterns. A township like Hillsborough could be totally built over by 40,000 residents who all identify the area as "Hillsborough", eclipsing any of the centralized settlements that might once have defined the area. But some geographers still regard the place only as a division of land, and it's still the traditional "dots on the map"–like Harrisonville–that are retained as destinations.

(This is also why it's widely known that the second-largest city in New York is Buffalo, even though the second-largest group-of-people-all-encompassed-by-the-same-government is the town of Hempstead, by a considerable margin.)

[roadman65]

I saw that particular sign many years ago living and traveling through New Jersey.  I think its more of a fulfillment destination than a control city.  Bascically NJDOT just wants to give a destination at either end of the road not so much to guide motorists there.

Its like I-84 at NY 17K near Newburgh, NY using "Montgomery" as well as Newburgh for that particular exit, even Eastbound where if you really wanted to go to Montgomery you would have previously exited onto NY 208 N Bound and then west on NY 17K.   It is just that Montgomery and Newburgh are both used because the first major settlement west of I-84 on NY 17K is Mongomery and the first city east of I-84 for the state route is Newburgh hence both "Newburgh" and "Montgomery" for Exit 6 on I-84. 

I'm afraid I still don't follow you. All the places you've mentioned are pretty significant: Montgomery is a substantial village, Newburgh is another city, etc.

I mean, take another place someone mentioned recently: here's a view of Boracho (Station), TX: https://goo.gl/maps/vbdmNSQnSzR2

Here's Middletown, NY: https://goo.gl/maps/njqzMWEuBap

And Montgomery, NY: https://goo.gl/maps/kxYM3sPZPKp

As you can see, Boracho really is non-existent. The others? Heck of a lot more going on there!

Its not about them being non existent but an example used to support my reasoning behind the why the Harrisonville is used on a road sign.  I was trying to point out that many major road agencies put a name up on sign no matter how small or large the place is just to fulfill a road sign spec.   In that case the said Harrisonville is used for that as another user did point out there are more direct ways to get they from I-295.

I was just simply using Montgomery, NY being signed the not so direct way either from I-84 EB in NY to make my point.  The second paragraph in my statement supports the first paragraph which gave my opinion to why NJDOT signed Harrisoville at that particular location.  The "its like" is the same as for example.  There was no mention that I was referring to Montgomery as a non existent place at all.

[empirestate]

Its not about them being non existent but an example used to support my reasoning behind the why the Harrisonville is used on a road sign.  I was trying to point out that many major road agencies put a name up on sign no matter how small or large the place is just to fulfill a road sign spec.   In that case the said Harrisonville is used for that as another user did point out there are more direct ways to get they from I-295.

I was just simply using Montgomery, NY being signed the not so direct way either from I-84 EB in NY to make my point.  The second paragraph in my statement supports the first paragraph which gave my opinion to why NJDOT signed Harrisoville at that particular location.  The "its like" is the same as for example.  There was no mention that I was referring to Montgomery as a non existent place at all.

Oh, I see. I thought you were following up on your earlier post about Middletown, etc. (it being the same general area). Still not sure where you were heading with that one, but I get your point about Montgomery now.

[Bitmapped]

In West Virginia, I-79's Exit #91 for US 19 is signed for Roanoke. Roanoke never was much of a town and what did exist was destroyed in the 1980s when Stonewall Jackson Lake was built.

WV also has a couple exits where the listed destination is just an existing city with a cardinal direction prefixed (e.g., "East Fairmont" for the east side of Fairmont).

[roadman65]

Its not about them being non existent but an example used to support my reasoning behind the why the Harrisonville is used on a road sign.  I was trying to point out that many major road agencies put a name up on sign no matter how small or large the place is just to fulfill a road sign spec.   In that case the said Harrisonville is used for that as another user did point out there are more direct ways to get they from I-295.

I was just simply using Montgomery, NY being signed the not so direct way either from I-84 EB in NY to make my point.  The second paragraph in my statement supports the first paragraph which gave my opinion to why NJDOT signed Harrisoville at that particular location.  The "its like" is the same as for example.  There was no mention that I was referring to Montgomery as a non existent place at all.

Oh, I see. I thought you were following up on your earlier post about Middletown, etc. (it being the same general area). Still not sure where you were heading with that one, but I get your point about Montgomery now.

Oh no.  I think I derailed on the Middletown one though as it was a question for another topic.  No Middletown is a decent size community and should now be used especially if I-86 will make it there soon.  I would rather see it signed in PA than Milford, which is not exactly a nobody either, but it is an interesting question of why PennDOT used that over even Port Jervis which is ten miles further and much larger in population.

[nexus73]

Carpenterville was a small hamlet on the original US 101 section between Gold Beach and Brookings in Curry County, Oregon.  Signs still refer to it and even a few maps have it on but there is not a trace of this town to be found.  Until the Redwood Freeway section north of Orick CA was constructed, Carpenterville was the highest elevation found on US 101.  On a clear day you could see the Siskiyou Mountains from there.

Rick

[DandyDan]

When I originally posted on this topic, I should have mentioned that on I-29 in Iowa, Iowa essentially invented two cities in Nebraska.  "North Omaha" is on the I-680 exit westbound (this is also true going west on I-80 onto I-680) and "South Bellevue" is a destination for the new US 34 westbound exit.  To be fair, there is a part of Omaha referred to as North Omaha, but unless you are being generous in what your definition of what North Omaha is, North Omaha doesn't go as far north as I-680.  South Bellevue, OTOH, is totally an invention, although in the future, Bellevue may develop in that direction.  That requires it to leapfrog over Offutt AFB first, however.

[thenetwork]

I'm going on a limb and say there are several exits on I-70 in Utah that have non-existent destinations.  Over the last few years, UDOT renamed exits formerly known as simply RANCH ACCESS(ES) to specific names -- yet they are not necessarily names of actual roads or cities.  Some may be names of nearby creeks, or land masses but are not destinations that 99.9 percent of the traffic are specifically looking for.

I will also dare say that Cove Fort, aka the western terminus of I-70 at I-15 is a non-destination.  Cove Fort is a historical park near that interchange, but again, it's not a destination that people are driving from hundreds of miles away to specifically visit or to stay overnight at.  To make a pit stop specifically at the park or at the nearby Truck Stop perhaps, but most advance signage should just list the mileage to I-15 or I-70, while the control cities should just say Las Vegas for I-70 West, Salt Lake (City) for I-15-North and Cedar City/Las Vegas for I-15 South.

[Rothman]

  Cove Fort is a historical park near that interchange, but again, it's not a destination that people are driving from hundreds of miles away to specifically visit or to stay overnight at. 

Cove Fort is a significant historic site for Mormons and Mormons do indeed drive from hundreds of miles away to visit it, especially since the park's enhanced development over the past decade or so.

[Zeffy]

It comes up for me; you're referring to Hillsborough Township, right?
https://goo.gl/maps/MWez3cEvqDw

I think what you're noticing is the cartographic treatment of the township as an areal division of land rather than as a locatable place. In theory, a township would be a subdivision of a county and would contain various built-up areas with their own names; there might be a central place with the same name as the township, but maybe not. In some cases, these built-up areas would incorporate separately and (in New Jersey's case) break off from the township. But we're still very much left with the idea that these places, whether separately incorporated or just localities inside the township, amount to "dots on the map" that make good destinations for wayfinding, whereas the township is still a line drawn broadly around an area and thus not appropriately specific for this purpose.

As your daily life shows, of course, this distinction today is incompatible with real development patterns. A township like Hillsborough could be totally built over by 40,000 residents who all identify the area as "Hillsborough", eclipsing any of the centralized settlements that might once have defined the area. But some geographers still regard the place only as a division of land, and it's still the traditional "dots on the map"–like Harrisonville–that are retained as destinations.

Oops, I meant if you look at Google Maps (without typing anything), Hillsborough doesn't show up, unlike Harlingen and Somerville and Manville which do. It doesn't seem to be labeled anymore, which I dislike.

(This is also why it's widely known that the second-largest city in New York is Buffalo, even though the second-largest group-of-people-all-encompassed-by-the-same-government is the town of Hempstead, by a considerable margin.)
[/quote]

[empirestate]

Oops, I meant if you look at Google Maps (without typing anything), Hillsborough doesn't show up, unlike Harlingen and Somerville and Manville which do. It doesn't seem to be labeled anymore, which I dislike.

Yeah, there's something algorithmic about how Google chooses to display or suppress labels for minor civil divisions. I'm not sure if the reason is categorical or simply label placement priority.

I'm not sure why none of the commercial mapping services seem to make much effort to competently display governmental boundaries as distinct from point-based placenames. I would think this information is more pertinent than it's made out to be.

[kphoger]

I question the validity of "Caiman Creek Interchange" on I-35 in south Texas.  There is no community named Caiman Creek (unlike the other named interchanges between Laredo and San Antonio).  Caiman Creek itself is a minor creek that is only 10 miles long.  If these signs did not exist, would anybody at all refer to this location as the Caiman Creek Interchange??

[empirestate]

I question the validity of "Caiman Creek Interchange" on I-35 in south Texas.  There is no community named Caiman Creek (unlike the other named interchanges between Laredo and San Antonio).  Caiman Creek itself is a minor creek that is only 10 miles long.  If these signs did not exist, would anybody at all refer to this location as the Caiman Creek Interchange??

What's most odd about that to me is that the interchange itself is the destination.

[cl94]

I question the validity of "Caiman Creek Interchange" on I-35 in south Texas.  There is no community named Caiman Creek (unlike the other named interchanges between Laredo and San Antonio).  Caiman Creek itself is a minor creek that is only 10 miles long.  If these signs did not exist, would anybody at all refer to this location as the Caiman Creek Interchange??

At least they gave it a name. Most other rural exits aren't so lucky.

[kphoger]

But that's my point exactly. Most rural exits in Texas with no legitimate destination get a route number or road name only; those with no appreciable crossroad are simply labeled "Frontage Rd". Why did they feel the need along this stretch of highway to make up interchange names? The Caiman Creek Interchange is basically just a spot to turn around. It should be labeled "Frontage Rd" and nothing more.

[national highway 1]

[cl94]

But that's my point exactly. Most rural exits in Texas with no legitimate destination get a route number or road name only; those with no appreciable crossroad are simply labeled "Frontage Rd". Why did they feel the need along this stretch of highway to make up interchange names? The Caiman Creek Interchange is basically just a spot to turn around. It should be labeled "Frontage Rd" and nothing more.

Some aren't even that lucky. Some have no signage other than a gore sign.

Funny thing about that exit was that it was called "No Name" when nothing was there, but it's now a CDP with 123 people. Exit 218 really has no name[/url].