Renumbering roads to remove a politician's name

[bandit957]

Are you describing a scenario like the following hypothetical:

• A road is named the Jimmy Carter Parkway–which is also secretly SR 450, but everyone just calls it the "Jimmy Carter Parkway" .
• Then a group of Republican lawmakers (who disdain Carter), have SR 450 redesigned as I-3 with great fanfare.
  
• The new signs just say I-3 (not Jimmy Carter Parkway), but nobody notices because they're distracted by the hoopla over I-3.

That's basically what you're describing?

That's pretty much the sort of thing I'm describing.

[hbelkins]

I think it would be helpful to tell us exactly what you're referring to. I doubt it would start a political argument.

[Brandon]

Are you describing a scenario like the following hypothetical:

• A road is named the Jimmy Carter Parkway–which is also secretly SR 450, but everyone just calls it the "Jimmy Carter Parkway" .
• Then a group of Republican lawmakers (who disdain Carter), have SR 450 redesigned as I-3 with great fanfare.
  
• The new signs just say I-3 (not Jimmy Carter Parkway), but nobody notices because they're distracted by the hoopla over I-3.

That's basically what you're describing?

That's pretty much the sort of thing I'm describing.

And yet, everyone continues to use the old name anyway as they do here for the Bishop Ford Freeway, calling it the Calumet Expressway (old name, I-94), or still using the name even though it doesn't appear on the signs (as in Detroit for the Jeffries (I-96), Ford (I-94), Fisher/Chrysler (I-75), and Ruether (I-696)).

[bandit957]

I think it would be helpful to tell us exactly what you're referring to. I doubt it would start a political argument.

Recently, 2 parkways in Kentucky named for politicians have been the target of numbering efforts by current politicians of an opposing party. I'm referring to the Natcher and the part of the Breathitt that didn't become I-69.

[Kacie Jane]

I have no idea how a renumbering would affect a politician's name on a road.  Now, a renaming would do the trick.

That's what I've been saying, but I'm not getting anywhere with Bandit. Names and numbers are not mutually exclusive, and both are free to be changed or removed at any time. A renumbering could change the name, but that would have to be part of the plan from the get-go. Simply changing the number doesn't automatically remove the old name.

I think the issue is that in practice (as opposed to on paper), such a renumbering can have the effect of a renaming.  I think there's somewhat of a push to number more highways thanks to the internet age, since Google Maps and GPS units and whatever else tend to default to numbers at the expense of names, since they're easier to depict and easier for a robot to pronounce.  (Which means -- without touching the specific situation at hand -- there is an apolitical reason to do such a thing.)

I think a lot depends on how well-known the current name is, and how much of a through route it is and how often out-of-towners use the route.  But it's absolutely possible that if a previously unnumbered (or secretly-numbered) route is given a well-signed number, people will start using the number instead of the name.

[hbelkins]

I think it would be helpful to tell us exactly what you're referring to. I doubt it would start a political argument.

Recently, 2 parkways in Kentucky named for politicians have been the target of numbering efforts by current politicians of an opposing party. I'm referring to the Natcher and the part of the Breathitt that didn't become I-69.

That has nothing to do with partisan politics and everything to do with the "brand" associated with a red, white and blue Interstate route marker. There's also a push to change the Audubon Parkway -- and John James Audubon wasn't a politician -- to I-369 and the only parkway named after a Republican governor to I-66.

Your anti-Republican philosophy is interfering with your logic on this one.

[cbeach40]

The QEW (Queen Elizabeth Way) in Ontario ought to be Hwy 408 I think.

It's already Highway 451 internally.

No. It is not. 






451 and 1 are placeholder numbers for instances where systems only accept numerical inputs. And 451 has fell out of favour decades ago.


The only official designation for that roadway is Queen Elizabeth Way.

[jakeroot]

451 and 1 are placeholder numbers for instances where systems only accept numerical inputs. And 451 has fell out of favour decades ago.

So what you're saying is, legal documents address the QEW as Hwy 451 or Hwy 1?

[hotdogPi]

451 and 1 are placeholder numbers for instances where systems only accept numerical inputs. And 451 has fell out of favour decades ago.

So what you're saying is, legal documents address the QEW as Hwy 451 or Hwy 1?

No.

For example, let's say that a program allows route numbers from 0 to 65535, but nothing else. It would not accept "QEW", but it would accept "451".

[jakeroot]

451 and 1 are placeholder numbers for instances where systems only accept numerical inputs. And 451 has fell out of favour decades ago.

So what you're saying is, legal documents address the QEW as Hwy 451 or Hwy 1?

No.

For example, let's say that a program allows route numbers from 0 to 65535, but nothing else. It would not accept "QEW", but it would accept "451".

So they've designated the QEW as "451" internally?

I'm not trolling, but you need to understand my perspective: if they used a different reference number every time the QEW was brought up in some program, it would be very messy to remember which number equals "QEW". So, the MTO has "designated" 451 to mean "QEW". Their consistent use of "451" is a designation in and of itself.

[cbeach40]

So they've designated the QEW as "451" internally?

No.

I'm not trolling, but you need to understand my perspective: if they used a different reference number every time the QEW was brought up in some program, it would be very messy to remember which number equals "QEW". So, the MTO has "designated" 451 to mean "QEW". Their consistent use of "451" is a designation in and of itself.

1. It's consistent within the very few programs that do that
2. It's always written in the description
3. For numbers, 451 is not used
4. That's not how designations work.

For a named road with an internal designation:
1. That part of the King's Highway known as No. 7290 (Lake Joseph Road) in the Township of Seguin in the Territorial District of Parry Sound lying between a point situate at its intersection with the centre line of the junction of the King's Highway Known as No. 141 and a point situate at its intersection with the centre line of the junction of the King's Highway known as No. 400.

For a named road with the name as its designation:
1. That part of the King's Highway known as the Queen Elizabeth Way lying between a point situate at its intersection with the King's Highway known as No. 427 in the City of Toronto and a point situate at its intersection with the westerly limit of the structure over the roadway known as Concession Road in the Town of Fort Erie in The Regional Municipality of Niagara.

[dvferyance]

The only Kentucky parkways that have had names removed for numbers are parts of the Western Kentucky and Pennyrile parkways where I-69 has taken over. Other than the Purchase Parkway, which will become I-69 in its entirety, and the Audubon (not a politician) and Natcher (totally renamed from Green River instead of having a name added), which are now slated to become 3di children of I-69, I am aware of no plans to remove the names from any of Kentucky's other parkways and replace them with signed numbers, although I think the state should either sign them with numbers or revert back to the traditional signage with auxiliary signs for the politician (as was done with the Mountain Parkway).

The only Republican governor honored with a parkway in his name is Louie B. Nunn, who was really a RINO. All the other gubernatorial parkways are named after Democrats. All of these changes were ordered by Democrat governors.

Because Kentucky has only had 2 Republican Governors since then. Ernie Fletcher and Matt Bevin the current Governor.