The most a route will change alignments in one city limit

Started by roadman65, June 30, 2016, 03:46:30 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

Super Mateo

#25
Having driven US 52 from its northern split point with US 45 near Peotone, IL to Interstate 40 in Winston-Salem, NC, I saw for myself how US 52 has tons of turns.  Outside of previously mentioned Kankakee, IL, two places I remember in particular were Cincinnati, OH and Bluefield, WV.

Checking it on the maps: eastbound US 52 has 8 turns in Cincinnati.
-Start on I-75.
-Left on Hopple at the end of the ramp.
-Right on King, a short connector road.
-Left on Central Parkway.
-After Central Parkway becomes Plum, turn right on 6th. There's no other choice here.
-Left onto Central Avenue.
-Left on Mehring. (Side note: Smale Park looked really nice. If it wasn't pouring rain, I may have stopped there for a bit.)
-Right on Rose. (near the Reds' stadium)
-Left onto the ramp for I-275.

By the way, I looked up Cincinnati's population and it's only about 300,000.

As for Bluefield, I'm counting seven eight. Going eastbound (signed south in WV):
-Start on Couch.
-Left on Highland.
-Left on Spruce. (It's a 90 degree curve in a 4 way perpendicular intersection. I consider that a turn.)
-Right on US 19.
-Right on Bland.
-Left on Cumberland.
-A right, then an immediate left, onto US 460.
-After exiting US 460 on a trumpet ramp, go left to join I-77 and enter the tunnel to VA. (credit to hbelkins for this one)

All turns are in the same place going northwest, except the turn at US 19 and Bland is at US 19 and Federal instead.


Thing 342

Quote from: Mapmikey on June 30, 2016, 07:04:05 PM
Because of how big the independent cities are, there might be some that surpass these (VA 116 in Roanoke has 7...VA 337 in Norfolk may have more)
Based on TravelMapping data, VA-337 apparently follows this route through Norfolk eastbound:

1. Enter city on Jordan Bridge heading east.
2. Turn left and head north on Bainbridge Blvd
3. Turn left on Liberty Street and head NW.
4. Turn left Berkeley Avenue and head west.
5. Turn right onto I-464 NB and head north.
6. Merge onto I-264 EB and cross the Berkley Bridge.
7. Exit onto Tidewater Drive and head north.
8. Turn left onto Brambleton Ave and head WNW.
9. Turn right onto Hampton Blvd and head north.
10. Turn right onto Admiral Taussig Blvd and head east, and road ends at I-564.
http://tm.teresco.org/hb/index.php?r=va.va337

This route is not well signed outside of the Hampton Blvd and Jordan Bridge sections.

TheStranger

#27
Quote from: sparker on July 02, 2016, 09:51:07 PM
Back before freeways extended into downtown Sacramento, CA, US 99 and its split-route cohorts 99E & 99W took rather convoluted routes.  Pre-1950, 99 came into town on Stockton Blvd, which was a diagonal SE-NW route.  It turned north at Alhambra Blvd. for 3 blocks, then left on M Street (later East Capitol Ave.) for about 15 blocks to 16th Street.  It turned right on 16th to the corner of L Street; this was the original 99 split point.  99E continued north on 16th St., along with US 40 eastbound, to the American River crossing, at which point it entered North Sacramento.  The facility continued as Del Paso Blvd. to El Camino Ave. (yeah, a redundancy -- El Camino translates to "The Road", so it's "The Road Avenue"  -- go figure!).  Del Paso was a SW-NE diagonal at that point; the highway turned east onto El Camino.  About a mile east, El Camino ducked under the SP RR tracks through a narrow underpass (lotsa those in Sacto!), immediately afterward it curved north onto Auburn Blvd, taking that facility all the way east to Roseville.  99W made a few more turns in downtown; it headed west with westbound US 40 on L Street (one way WB) to 9th Street, which was one-way south, turning south to West Capitol (1 block), then west on West Capitol to the Tower Bridge, which took 99W and US 40 westward into Yolo County.  Southbound 99W (east US 40) did the reverse, using W. Capitol to 9th, right a block to N street (1-way EB), taking that to 16th, where 99W/40 turned north a block to M, where it merged with 99E traffic and headed east as 99.

After 1950 the paths became only marginally less complicated, particularly with 99W.  The Elvas Freeway was completed, which was accessed through the 29th Street (SB) and 30th Street (NB) couplet.  It was decided to reroute 99 through Sacramento -- partially due to the establishment of the UC Davis teaching hospital located on Stockton Blvd. just SE of Alhambra Blvd.  99 (along with US 50) still entered Sacramento on Stockton Blvd., but turned west on Broadway, which itself had a couple of diagonal turns, to 30th Street.  This was the relocated 99 split point; 99E turned north there, with 50, toward the Elvas Freeway southern terminus.  50 turned east at East Capitol (the renamed M Street); that segued into Folsom Blvd (by the way, SSR 16 also occupied much of the M/Capitol stretch of the old 99 as well as 50 east of 99E; after the '50 route changes, it was the sole signed route occupying East Capitol from 16th to 29th.  99W continued west on Broadway to 16th Street, where it turned north to N Street.  Part of the rerouting scheme took state highway traffic off L Street; N Street was made 2-way (and perpetually congested!); the reason for the original split was to circumscribe the State Capitol grounds between L & N.  99W, along with WB 40, headed west on N to 8th (1-way NB), where it turned N to West Capitol; both routes exited town via the Tower Bridge as before.

I'll regale you with stories of the equally convoluted SSR 24 in a later post.

If I'm not mistaken, the 1940s US 99 route was somewhat different and did NOT use Alhambra (though Alhambra was used in an early-1930s routing) but rather Broadway.

For comparison:

1934 map:
http://www.americanroads.us/citymaps/1934CaStateMapSacramento.png

1944:
http://www.americanroads.us/citymaps/1944CaStateMapSacramento.png
(shows the Broadway routing, along with Bypass US 50 along 14th Avenue and 65th Street. Also shows today's Route 160/Business 80, then the proposed US 40/99E freeway through North Sacramento and Arden)

Also, M Street west of Alhambra became Capitol Avenue (no East) in the mid-1940s; the roadway carrying US 99W/US 40 through West Sacramento received the West Capitol Avenue name around that time too though I don't have an exact date for it (or what it might have been called beforehand). 

I actually describe the Route 99 in-town routings a bit in a 2010 thread:
https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=3161.0
Chris Sampang

sparker

#28
More tales of Old Sacramento:  State Sign Route 24.  Pre 1953, this state highway was one of the longest in the state, starting in downtown Oakland, and fully crossing the state on a very convoluted route via Walnut Creek, Antioch, Sacramento, Woodland, Marysville, Quincy, and ending at US 395 at Hallelujah Junction.  Today it's CA 24, I-680, CA 242, CA4, CA160, I-5, CA 113, CA 99, CA 20, and CA 70.  Equally as convoluted was its various routes through Sacramento: 

Pre 1950 NB:  (1) Enter N on Freeport Blvd.    (2) W on Broadway    (3) N on 16th Street    (4) W on L St. (w/WB US 40 & SSR 16,
     NB US 99W    (5) S on 9th Street    (6) W on West Capitol    (7) N on 3rd Street (w/SSR 16 only)    (8) W on I Street, exiting
     Sacramento with SSR 16 on the I Street Bridge over the Sacramento River.
Pre 1950 SB:  (1) Enter E on I Street Bridge w/SSR 16 EB    (2) S on 3rd Street   (3) E on West Capitol Ave, with EB US 40 & 
     SSR 16, SB US 99W   (4)  SB on 9th Street  (5) E on N Street  (6) S on 16th Street (all other multiplexed routes turn N)
     (7)  E on Broadway   (8) S on Freeport Blvd to the city limits.

After 1950 US 99's route, including its split sections, changed within the city center.  Also at that time, most N-S state highways were realigned as one-way couplets within the area bounded by Broadway on the south, Alhambra Blvd. on the east, the American River on the north, and the Sacramento River on the west.  At the same time, it became necessary to realign SSR 24 (aka SLR 11) due to the expansion of the Western Pacific RR yard in the south part of Sacramento.  Freeport Blvd. crossed the tracks at an angle about 7 blocks south of Broadway; the yard expansion placed the grade crossing within the yard limits -- which meant that trains entering or leaving the yard could be parked across the grade crossing until they were given dispatcher's clearance to move -- stopping Freeport Blvd. traffic for 10-15 minutes at times.  It was decided to realign the state highway west of the tracks on the 2-lane South 19th Street (Freeport was actually a southern extension of 21st Street; the RR tracks crossed Broadway adjacent to 20th Street).  A connection was built just south of the Freeport RR crossing, so SSR 24 traffic would turn left and then immediately north onto the new alignment north to Broadway, avoiding any rail crossings.  So the legal route definition would not change (requiring legislative action), the new extension carried the Freeport Blvd. name, with the former routing reverting to South 21st Street.  Along with other route changes, this actually simplified the SSR 24 routing within the city for a time:

1950-58, NB SSR 24: (1)  Enter city on Freeport Blvd.  (2) W/N on realigned Freeport Blvd.   (3) W on Broadway (w/NB US 99W,
   which turns north at 16th Street)  (4) N on 5th Street (picking up SSR 16 at W. Capitol Ave.)  W on I Street w/WB SSR 16,
   exiting the city as before on the I Street Bridge.  SB SSR 24: (1) Enter EB, w/SSR 16, on the I Street Bridge  (2) S on 3rd
   Street, losing SSR 16 at West Capitol.  (3) E on Broadway, picking up SB US 99W at 15th Street  (4) S on realigned Freeport,
   exiting US 99W in the process   (5) S onto original Freeport south of the WP RR grade crossing & continuing south out of town.

In 1953 Alternate US 40 was established over the former SSR 24 from Woodland to the Nevada state line (multiplexed with US 395 from Hallelujah Junction to Reno, NV); this was done in the wake of two winters' worth of severe snowstorms that closed US 40 over Donner Pass for weeks at a time.  SSR 24 continued for 5 years as a "useless" multiplex with SSR 16 between Sacramento and Woodland, terminating at the US 99W/Alternate US 40/SSR 16 junction in that city.  However, there had been longstanding plans to more directly connect Sacramento with the Marysville/Yuba City area; to that end, SLR 232 was established between Sacramento and Olivehurst, just south of Marysville on US 99E.  It was decided to realign SSR 24 over that route once it was completed.  That occurred in late 1958; that added the following turns to the post-1950 SSR 24 routing:  NB:  From the I Street bridge immediately west of the Sacramento River crossing, SSR 24 turned north (turn #6) onto Jibboom Street, which carried it north across the American River to Garden Highway, where it turned west (#7) onto that facility, which sat atop the Sacramento River levee.  It used Garden Highway for about 2 miles before turning north (#8) onto El Centro Avenue, which took the route north into Sutter County.  This arrangement lasted for another 6 years until the 1964 statewide renumbering, which truncated CA 24 back to Contra Costa County.  Until the east-west freeway between W & X Streets (now Biz 80/US 50/hidden I-305) was completed in early 1969, the convoluted system of state highways in Sacramento was an ever-changing set of temporary realignments before almost all surface streets were relinquished in favor of all-freeway routings where possible.  The exception was CA 160, which took over both the Freeport Blvd. and 15th/16th street couplet state routes; it was signed & maintained until a few years ago, when the entire in-city surface alignment was relinquished to the city. 
   

TheStranger

Route 84 in Fremont has had several more added in the 80s due to the completion of the freeway spur from the Nimitz Freeway/I-880 west through Newark:

1. Dumbarton Bridge connector freeway (finished ca. 1982)
2. I-880 between Exits 21 and Exits 19
3. Thornton Avenue from I-880 east to Fremont Boulevard
4. Fremont Boulevard for about 2-3 blocks
5. Mowry Avenue between Fremont Boulevard and Route 238
6. Route 238 from Mowry Avenue to Niles Canyon Road
7. Niles Canyon Road east to Sunol

A Decoto Road upgrade/bypass project has been proposed for years to simplify some of the routing and bypass downtown Fremont but never has really moved beyond the design stage.  Then again, honestly there are so many ways this could be simplified with existing roads:

- Decoto and Alvarado-Niles directly to Niles Canyon Road, but having driven it, I can see why this hasn't been suggested: the section of Alvarado-Niles near Mission Road goes through old town Niles
- Decoto to Paseo Padre to Mowry
- extend the concurrency with 880 to Mowry Avenue and then use all of Mowry instead of part of it.  Would force drivers to use the busy Nimitz Freeway for longer
- Decoto to Fremont Boulevard to then continue to existing alignment.  No need for 880 concurrency.
- Decoto to Mission.  Indirect but does provide access to the Union City BART station
Chris Sampang

noelbotevera

Quote from: Thing 342 on July 04, 2016, 11:54:20 PM
Quote from: Mapmikey on June 30, 2016, 07:04:05 PM
Because of how big the independent cities are, there might be some that surpass these (VA 116 in Roanoke has 7...VA 337 in Norfolk may have more)
Based on TravelMapping data, VA-337 apparently follows this route through Norfolk eastbound:

1. Enter city on Jordan Bridge heading east.
2. Turn left and head north on Bainbridge Blvd
3. Turn left on Liberty Street and head NW.
4. Turn left Berkeley Avenue and head west.
5. Turn right onto I-464 NB and head north.
6. Merge onto I-264 EB and cross the Berkley Bridge.
7. Exit onto Tidewater Drive and head north.
8. Turn left onto Brambleton Ave and head WNW.
9. Turn right onto Hampton Blvd and head north.
10. Turn right onto Admiral Taussig Blvd and head east, and road ends at I-564.
http://tm.teresco.org/hb/index.php?r=va.va337

This route is not well signed outside of the Hampton Blvd and Jordan Bridge sections.
Technically, the first two turns are in Chesapeake city limits. The Goog says that the city limits are at Halifax Street. You're also omitting a right turn at S. Main Street.
Pleased to meet you
Hope you guessed my name

(Recently hacked. A human operates this account now!)

sparker

I stand corrected as to when US 99 was rerouted off the original Stockton/Alhambra routing; I utilized the '34 map (with a grain of salt, as it was a bit vague) to ascertain that original routing -- but I got the later routings from Caltrans archives; the first map I saw rerouting the highway onto Broadway was dated 1950; I assumed (my bad!) that the realignment had occurred around that date when the Elvas freeway had opened.  Now that I see Chris' 1944 map,  I realize that Broadway was in use at least 6 years earlier.  No excuses -- just didn't research deeply enough.  One thing does bother me -- by 1944 the extension of US 50 from Sacramento to Oakland, using US 99 south to Stockton and the former US 48 to the East Bay, was in place; the 1944 map indicates (despite the presence of Bypass US 50/SLR 98) that the US 50 mainline would have followed US 99 west on Broadway to 16th Street and then north to M/Capitol before turning east.  While the eventual surface routing of US 50 over US 99E on 29th/30th streets was convoluted enough, dragging it west, north, and back east via the US 99 routing skirting the Capitol grounds for at least 6 years borders on the absurd, even by Division of Highways standards.   I can now appreciate the impetus for the many Sacramento realignments that took place pre-freeway era.  The State Capitol building is quite the structure and the grounds are really pretty -- but to drag every U.S. highway in the area, with a few SSR's thrown in for good measure,  on a "forced march" past it seems an exercise in pomposity and overstated pride.  To paraphrase the late, great Firesign Theatre:  "We're not only proud of our capitol, we're downright smug about it!"

I do apologize for the error in the original post.   :banghead:  I'll double- (or triple-) check my mapping base next time.  S.P.   

DandyDan

Northbound MN 4 and Westbound MN 30 in St. James, MN
1. NB MN 4 exits from EB MN 60 and WB MN 30 exits from WB MN 60 to turn onto NB 11th St. S.
2. They turn west onto 7th Ave. S. (This is the original MN 60 alignment I remember when I was a young kid and we were going to grandma's house.)
3. They curve onto NB 7th St. S.
4. They turn onto WB 1st Ave. S. for 1 block. (End of original MN 60 alignment.)
5. They turn onto NB Armstrong Blvd.
6. They turn onto WB 11th Ave. N.
7. 11th Ave. curves into W Rd and goes out of town.

MN 4 also has an exit for SB MN 4 on the SW edge of St. James, though outside city limits.
MORE FUN THAN HUMANLY THOUGHT POSSIBLE

pianocello

How could I forget Indiana SR-51 in Hobart? Going southbound, you have:

1. Turn right on Cleveland Ave
2. Left on Indiana St
3. Right on Lillian St
4. Left on Illinois St
5. Right on 3rd St
6. Left on Main St
7. Right on 10th St.

It's well-signed, too, which is unexpected for Indiana in this day and age.
Davenport, IA -> Valparaiso, IN -> Ames, IA -> Orlando, FL -> Gainesville, FL -> Evansville, IN

TheStranger

Quote from: sparker on July 05, 2016, 03:35:49 AM
One thing does bother me -- by 1944 the extension of US 50 from Sacramento to Oakland, using US 99 south to Stockton and the former US 48 to the East Bay, was in place; the 1944 map indicates (despite the presence of Bypass US 50/SLR 98) that the US 50 mainline would have followed US 99 west on Broadway to 16th Street and then north to M/Capitol before turning east.  While the eventual surface routing of US 50 over US 99E on 29th/30th streets was convoluted enough, dragging it west, north, and back east via the US 99 routing skirting the Capitol grounds for at least 6 years borders on the absurd, even by Division of Highways standards.

In that same exact vein, an interesting thing that that 1944 map highlights (that would have not been intuitive to me when I first started researching Sacramento) - LRN 98 north of Folsom Boulevard, which followed 65th Street, Elvas Avenue, J Street/H Street, Fair Oaks Boulevard, and Fulton Avenue served to give a state-funded route across the H Street Bridge, BUT was never given a signed route number.

It would have been a pretty effective US 99E routing, but like the convoluted inclusion of US 50 into downtown in those days, apparently the US 99W/US 99E split just had to happen at the Capitol as well - which is amusing given that the construction of the Elvas Freeway moved the split a few miles southeast to Broadway/29th/30th anyway (and later the Broadway exit off of the South Sacramento Freeway, today's Route 99).
Chris Sampang

hbelkins

Not sure if it's within the city limits of Bluefield or not, but there's also the turn where US 52 joins I-77.
Government would be tolerable if not for politicians and bureaucrats.

Avalanchez71

Quote from: sparker on July 05, 2016, 03:35:49 AM
I stand corrected as to when US 99 was rerouted off the original Stockton/Alhambra routing; I utilized the '34 map (with a grain of salt, as it was a bit vague) to ascertain that original routing -- but I got the later routings from Caltrans archives; the first map I saw rerouting the highway onto Broadway was dated 1950; I assumed (my bad!) that the realignment had occurred around that date when the Elvas freeway had opened.  Now that I see Chris' 1944 map,  I realize that Broadway was in use at least 6 years earlier.  No excuses -- just didn't research deeply enough.  One thing does bother me -- by 1944 the extension of US 50 from Sacramento to Oakland, using US 99 south to Stockton and the former US 48 to the East Bay, was in place; the 1944 map indicates (despite the presence of Bypass US 50/SLR 98) that the US 50 mainline would have followed US 99 west on Broadway to 16th Street and then north to M/Capitol before turning east.  While the eventual surface routing of US 50 over US 99E on 29th/30th streets was convoluted enough, dragging it west, north, and back east via the US 99 routing skirting the Capitol grounds for at least 6 years borders on the absurd, even by Division of Highways standards.   I can now appreciate the impetus for the many Sacramento realignments that took place pre-freeway era.  The State Capitol building is quite the structure and the grounds are really pretty -- but to drag every U.S. highway in the area, with a few SSR's thrown in for good measure,  on a "forced march" past it seems an exercise in pomposity and overstated pride.  To paraphrase the late, great Firesign Theatre:  "We're not only proud of our capitol, we're downright smug about it!"

I do apologize for the error in the original post.   :banghead:  I'll double- (or triple-) check my mapping base next time.  S.P.
I was wondering why the route was so convoluted.

Super Mateo

#37
Quote from: hbelkins on July 05, 2016, 12:31:16 PM
Not sure if it's within the city limits of Bluefield or not, but there's also the turn where US 52 joins I-77.

According to Google Maps, they have US 52 within Bluefield's limits, but the limits are a narrow strip that doesn't include much on either side of the road.  There's also a trumpet where US 52 splits from US 460, but northwest bound isn't within city limits and southeast bound doesn't really turn, even though the mainline goes with US 460. I'll add the I-77 junction to my post above.

mrsman

Quote from: Avalanchez71 on July 05, 2016, 12:53:23 PM
Quote from: sparker on July 05, 2016, 03:35:49 AM
I stand corrected as to when US 99 was rerouted off the original Stockton/Alhambra routing; I utilized the '34 map (with a grain of salt, as it was a bit vague) to ascertain that original routing -- but I got the later routings from Caltrans archives; the first map I saw rerouting the highway onto Broadway was dated 1950; I assumed (my bad!) that the realignment had occurred around that date when the Elvas freeway had opened.  Now that I see Chris' 1944 map,  I realize that Broadway was in use at least 6 years earlier.  No excuses -- just didn't research deeply enough.  One thing does bother me -- by 1944 the extension of US 50 from Sacramento to Oakland, using US 99 south to Stockton and the former US 48 to the East Bay, was in place; the 1944 map indicates (despite the presence of Bypass US 50/SLR 98) that the US 50 mainline would have followed US 99 west on Broadway to 16th Street and then north to M/Capitol before turning east.  While the eventual surface routing of US 50 over US 99E on 29th/30th streets was convoluted enough, dragging it west, north, and back east via the US 99 routing skirting the Capitol grounds for at least 6 years borders on the absurd, even by Division of Highways standards.   I can now appreciate the impetus for the many Sacramento realignments that took place pre-freeway era.  The State Capitol building is quite the structure and the grounds are really pretty -- but to drag every U.S. highway in the area, with a few SSR's thrown in for good measure,  on a "forced march" past it seems an exercise in pomposity and overstated pride.  To paraphrase the late, great Firesign Theatre:  "We're not only proud of our capitol, we're downright smug about it!"

I do apologize for the error in the original post.   :banghead:  I'll double- (or triple-) check my mapping base next time.  S.P.
I was wondering why the route was so convoluted.

I believe a lot of the convolusion has to do with how the roadways themselves developed.  A roadway from Folsom to Sacramento should guide people from Folsom to the Capitol.  Likewise, a roadway from Stockton to Sacramento should guide people from Stockton to the Capitol.  Now when the powers that be decided that those two roadways would be connected as one number, well then go from Folsom to the Capitol to Stockton, even though that adds many miles through city streets over a more direct routing from Folsom to Stockton.    Certainly those familiar would use some kind of shortcut between the two like maybe Watt, Power Inn, or 65th (if those streets existed in the 1930's).

You even see this sort of thing today.  I-10 is not the most direct routing between Slidell, LA and Baton Rouge, but it was decided to route I-10 through New Orelans and to have I-12 serve as the "bypass" (in quotes because normally a bypass is longer, in this case it's actually shorter in mileage).

Another example is making the connection from I-83 NB to US 30 EB (and US 30 WB to I-83 SB) in York, PA.  If you follow the signs, you'd go pretty far west along the freeway and then go pretty far east along the surface road.  It's far shorter to take N Hills Rd and use that as a connector.

sparker

In the case of Sacramento, the original (and a generation or two subsequent) configuration was clearly intended to showcase the "center of government &/or the state itself" as the "fountainhead" from whence all roads extended.  The SLR system clearly reflected that: with its plethora of "first-generation" low SLR numbers attached to routes radiating from the Capitol.  While the first two (SLR 1, SLR 2) took the more coastal route via US 101, SLR 3 and SLR 4 were US 99E north(NE) from Sacramento and US 99 south from town respectively; SLR 6 was US 40 westbound (at least as far as Davis), while SLR 11 was SSR 24 coming up through the Sacramento Delta from Antioch via Isleton and Freeport, and "piggybacking" on SLR 4 for a bit before leaving town as US 50 east toward Placerville and Lake Tahoe.  And all converged at the corner of 16th and L, just east of the Capitol grounds, with 3,4, & 6 terminating there (only 11 was a "pass-through", and it took a hard right from northbound 16th Street to, first, L Street and later, M Street, later renamed Capitol Ave.).  It seems like evoking a general sense of awe (and maybe even deference) among the general public was prioritized over route efficiency -- at least at that point in time.  Post 1950, all bets were off, and routes were realigned for not only efficiency but capacity (with the multiple one-way couplets as the original means to do so), with an eye toward moving traffic through the city with less gratuitous detours.   



Opinions expressed here on belong solely to the poster and do not represent or reflect the opinions or beliefs of AARoads, its creators and/or associates.