Eisenhower Expressway was I-90 in '77. Why did it change?

[dzlsabe]

"Confidence is not a real factor in reality. Do you know much about logistics?"

Todays reality? Or twehty years from now? Do you mean "the detailed coordination of a complex operation involving many people, facilities, or supplies?" I know about BAD logistics. Everybody that lives around here probably has a clue. And Ive been to places with GOOD logistics. Does that answer your question?

[TravelingBethelite]

Anyone else lost on wtf DZ is saying? *throws hands up like I just don't care*

I gave up quite some time ago.  He's nuts as far as I'm concerned.

WHAT in the good name of BUTTON COPY is dzlsabe talking about? How does this help the traveling public of the US, Chicagoland, or even Chicago itself?

[ET21]

^lol
DZ, can you send us an in-depth map plan with ramps, interchanges, lanes, and not just a line that says the train lines?

And can you do it in Fictional Highways where it (once again) belongs?

No problem. https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=16790.0

Big problem. Its locked.

Gee I wonder why 

[Stratuscaster]

The Strangler will still be a mess, put under even more pressure with the added lanes around EOE and I-490.

What and where exactly do you consider "The Strangler" to be?

Here? https://www.google.com/maps/@41.8741112,-87.91329,2519m/data=!3m1!1e3

Partially, you are correct.

Prior to 2001, the "Hillside Strangler" was the result of two issues. The first was when I-290 went from 3 lanes to 2 and I-88 went from 3 lanes to 1 - with those remaining 3 lanes merging just before Mannheim. Today, much of that has been mitigated with the building of the Mannheim "local lane/exit" that now carries the truck traffic from I-88 and Mannheim exit traffic off I-290. It's still a 2+1 merge, but a lot of the traffic is on the local/exit lanes at that point.

Phase two is still in planning - and that's where they are trying to address the lack of a fourth traffic lane along with several left-hand exits & entrances between Mannheim & Austin. East of Austin, the Ike is 4 lanes wide.

The "4+ into 1" clusterfuck is a bit hyperbole. The backups from EB 290 to SB 294 and NB 294 to WB 290 are not really "Strangler" related - they are their own set of problems.

Traffic from IL-390 and I-490 won't necessarily be MORE traffic, more like REDISTRIBUTED traffic. And not all of it is headed to the Ike.

and the tollway that goes from Boston to Beloit has a missing gap that can be seen from space.

Yeah - that gap is hard to miss. https://goo.gl/maps/jH6soyB9ZJP2

It's also not a single tollway for it's length, but let's not get bogged down in details.


I'm still trying to figure out how your Hypo is going to somehow get around your "Strangler" and not add more issues. Are you providing connections from the Hypo to the Tri-State, Ike, and Reagan (and if not, WHY not?)

[hobsini2]

BTW DZ, You say to it will be a continuous tollway between Beloit and Boston.
WRONG!

I-90 from west of Cleveland to the PA/NY Line is a freeway. I-90 is also a freeway in the Buffalo and Albany areas.
And if you meant that it is a connected toll road, you still would be WRONG. Connecticut and Rhode Island are all freeways.

DOH!

[dzlsabe]

BTW DZ, You say to it will be a continuous tollway between Beloit and Boston.
WRONG!

I-90 from west of Cleveland to the PA/NY Line is a freeway. I-90 is also a freeway in the Buffalo and Albany areas.
And if you meant that it is a connected toll road, you still would be WRONG. Connecticut and Rhode Island are all freeways.

DOH!

Thats a (one of many) POINT! The ROAD is there. Interstaters get a brief break for a few miles here and there. But it still a continuous road/route.

In Chicago, its NOT. It conjoins with the Ryan and Kennedy (already 94), a road that just happens to be there, not the shortest, straightest, fastest way, but going the general direction the route should take. I-90 had been on the Ike and its extension till '78. Then a "better", sexier way was found. Just stick it on the Kennedy. Looks much better, problem solved. Or NOT.

The best way (shortest, straightest, fastest) would be continuing NW 16 miles from Skyway to I-55 and ALL those rail connections, yards and truck terminals/warehouses, then jumping the Strangler (did I mention Americas #1 Fdup junction?) and giving the IKE extension what it once had (I-90), and deserves again....2DIhood. Its OWN road. Actually shorter by 6 to 10 miles, depending on parameters. No more renting.

Where did I say or made you think I-90 (MassPike) went through CT or RI?

@SC-

https://www.google.com/maps/@41.8741112,-87.91329,2519m/data=!3m1!1e3

"I'm still trying to figure out how your Hypo is going to somehow get around your "Strangler" and not add more issues. Are you providing connections from the Hypo to the Tri-State, Ike, and Reagan?"

Of course.

Starting with WB, ultimately two-lane flyover the Tristate starting around the "290 shield" on the map and landing/merging at 15A. Slow oval would be removed with a combined ramp from NB 294 and 88 merging to the south lane above where the oval merges with 290 presently. Also an exit ramp to NB 294 from the north lane. At 17, an exit to WB 88.

EB would be a single exit lane just before the "290 shield", quickly splitting to two lanes by 15B. An entrance ramp from EB 88 & NB 294 merging just north of the D on Darmstadt.

So four lanes total between Darmstadt and IKE over the CN (old IC) track. I would think four lanes would suffice following the CN ROW until Mannheim. Then with a WB exit and EB entrance at Mannheim maybe up to six lanes? Not sure. Maybe four would suffice all the way to Cicero.


 

[GeekJedi]

We really need to move this section of this thread into fictional. It has very much strayed into that territory.

[SEWIGuy]

DZ still hasn't provided any justification for why he thinks this hypo is going to take traffic off the Kennedy.  Through traffic is not the problem on the Kennedy.  Local, commuting traffic is the problem.

You run any directions map (Google, Bing, iPhone) from Cleveland to Madison, and the preferred route is going to take you onto the Borman, the Tri-State and the Eisenhower up to the Northwest Tollway.  Relative to the Ryan and the Kennedy, not terribly crowded.

So the Hypo is going to take traffic off a route that doesn't have excessive traffic issues.  All at a huge cost as you tear up a bunch of neighborhoods.

Bad idea.  Not worth the cost.  Ultimately doesn't solve the Strangler problem.  Ultimately doesn't solve the Ryan/Kennedy problem.

[SSOWorld]

Please don't feed the trolls.  Also please leave the fictional on the appropriate board.  This is not the appropriate board.

[dzlsabe]

The Strangler will still be a mess, put under even more pressure with the added lanes around EOE and I-490.

What and where exactly do you consider "The Strangler" to be?

Here? https://www.google.com/maps/@41.8741112,-87.91329,2519m/data=!3m1!1e3

"Partially, you are correct."

"Prior to 2001, the "Hillside Strangler" was the result of two issues. The first was when I-290 went from 3 lanes to 2 and I-88 went from 3 lanes to 1 - with those remaining 3 lanes merging just before Mannheim. Today, much of that has been mitigated with the building of the Mannheim "local lane/exit" that now carries the truck traffic from I-88 and Mannheim exit traffic off I-290. It's still a 2+1 merge, but a lot of the traffic is on the local/exit lanes at that point."

"Phase two is still in planning - and that's where they are trying to address the lack of a fourth traffic lane along with several left-hand exits & entrances between Mannheim & Austin. East of Austin, the Ike is 4 lanes wide."

"The "4+ into 1" clusterfuck is a bit hyperbole. The backups from EB 290 to SB 294 and NB 294 to WB 290 are not really "Strangler" related - they are their own set of problems."

Dont see a BIT of hyperbole. If anything its MORE than four if you count Roosevelt IL 38 & 56 (EB ramp closed early afternoon), even North Av and Lake St add.

"Traffic from IL-390 and I-490 won't necessarily be MORE traffic, more like REDISTRIBUTED traffic. And not all of it is headed to the Ike."

It looks like more, more, more. And MOST of that will be headed or from the IKE and Strangler/Tri-state.

and the tollway that goes from Boston to Beloit has a missing gap that can be seen from space.

"Yeah - that gap is hard to miss. https://goo.gl/maps/jH6soyB9ZJP2 ".

"It's also not a single tollway for it's length, but let's not get bogged down in details."

No its not a single tollway, but it is a single road until it hits Chicago. Why not get bogged down in the details?...its what some early risers live for on this pos forum. Like the following...jeek.

The tranquil eastern suburbs of Cleveland or Buffalo & Albany are not really comparable to the hell of Chicago and Cookco are they?

http://eisenhowerexpressway.com/pdfs/i290%20alternatives%20evaluation%20summary2013apr02.pdf

No mention of "other options" for that matter. See "concept categories" pg 25,6 above. Double-decking in C8 is "not carried forward". C11 is "deferred to subsequent rounds", so it looks like there is still a lot of WTF is IDOT planning/gonna do?

"I'm still trying to figure out how your Hypo is going to somehow get around your "Strangler" and not add more issues. Are you providing connections from the Hypo to the Tri-State, Ike, and Reagan (and if not, WHY not?)"

Get around? How bout "flyover"?

Does anybody see a "football"? One end is in Schaumburg, the other in Gary. And the ONLY bisection is the IKE (and Strangler). Is it time to think about/STUDY even another "bisection", get I-90 which SHOULD be a tollway, OFF of I-94, paying the rent?

Recent annual GDP #s...Chicagoland $630B (in an area of 2 CTs), OH $627B, NJ $587B. Imagine what Chicago, the MSA, the region, the country COULD look like in ten or twenty years if road and rail flew through town?

[GeekJedi]

Did you not see SSOWorld's post right above yours?

[dzlsabe]

How is fiction or non or reality discerned from this EIS...         http://eisenhowerexpressway.com/pdfs/i290%20alternatives%20evaluation%20summary2013apr02.pdf
when the "study area" excludes at a minimum the mile west of Mannheim known as the "Strangler", probably the #1 mess in the country, as well as the implications of the Byrne flyover on the east? Or anything south of Cermak? Still many blanks to be filled and dots to connect.

What IS the point of "I-290"? Maybe the Ike and extension need to revert to I-90. It may clarify the view not only of this EIS, but any future thought on extending the NW Tollway a few lanes from Schaumburg to I-355 or beyond.

[Stratuscaster]

Your "Strangler" involves I-88 and I-294, which are not IDOT but ISTHA.

The Byrne isn't involved, likely because it's part of it's own project that ends at Racine on the west.

Not sure why Cermak needs to be involved. Looking at the study, the only arterials in the study were Madison and Roosevelt.

The "point" of I-290 is the same as when it was I-90 - an access route to/from the Western Suburbs and ultimately a bypass away from the Edens and O'Hare.

Renaming it "I-90" doesn't magically bring clarity to the study.

The Adams Spur? Why only to I-355? Why not all the way to the Byrne/Circle? Looking at the study, the HOT & TOLL options were better performing than others.

[dzlsabe]

"Your "Strangler" involves I-88 and I-294, which are not IDOT but ISTHA."

Hence the need for them to get on the same page. Who IS in charge of the "Strangler"? Dumb looks are still free. Good place to start would be extending the Ike EIS study area west a mile.

"The Byrne isn't involved, likely because it's part of it's own project that ends at Racine on the west."

Still has major implications for this EIS

"Not sure why Cermak needs to be involved. Looking at the study, the only arterials in the study were Madison and Roosevelt."

Cermak or places south, like Cicero absolutely DONT NEED to be involved. Unless they DO? Its two miles away from Ike. So is North Av, which somehow made it to the "study area". Where are those mostly trucks on the  "C-KC"  highway going? Downtown for lunch?

"The "point" of I-290 is the same as when it was I-90 - an access route to/from the Western Suburbs and ultimately a bypass away from the Edens and O'Hare."

So rerename it "I-90". It should go west of Ohare, not north. Intersecting with EOE and I-490 (are they the same?) Quit saying "bypass". Its NOT. It was a bonafide 2DI and should be again.

"Renaming it "I-90" doesn't magically bring clarity to the study."

As the holder of a Boy Scout "Pathfinder" merit badge, I agree it would not magically.

"The Adams Spur? Why only to I-355? Why not all the way to the Byrne/Circle? Looking at the study, the HOT & TOLL options were better performing than others."

"Better performing"? HOT & TOLLs on Ike (Congress)? How does that get configured, again?

I-355 would be a start. Four tolled lanes from Ikea to 355 possible? And NO spur. Already have ONE of those, which needs to be KILLED within five years. Lets keep this in a twenty year time frame.

[Joe The Dragon]

I-355 needs 4 lanes from I-290 to I-88 or at least AUX lanes

[dzlsabe]

I-355 needs 4 lanes from I-290 to I-88 or at least AUX lanes

Someday that may be needed. But Dupageco has two complete tollways. Cookco? Doesnt.

The priority is doing what can be easily or relatively, done on the Strangler. The center of the region and also the major contributor to a lot of problems. The hub of the hub.

Double-laning the ramp between EB I-290 and SB 294 would be an easy start. Building a double-lane, triple flyover, eliminating the slow oval at NB 294/88 to 290 would take years, but sure needs to be done. Even two more lanes on Ikext between Strangler and North? ISTHA has the means. Trying to cram two more lanes into Congress Ike (a stressed IDOT only project at present?), the only bisector of the "football", would wreck that road for years.

[roadman65]

Now the hypotenuse and the Edens thing are both gone the obsession continues in another part of Chicagoland!

[dzlsabe]

Now the hypotenuse and the Edens thing are both gone the obsession continues in another part of Chicagoland!

"Now the hypotenuse and the Edens thing are both gone"?...I bake to differ.

Then this shows up.

http://www.connectingcookcounty.com/pdf/CookCounty_LRTP_Full_V16.pdf

Bunch of good maps. Pg 22, 2.10 & 11, among others. Ouite a few great pages, too. Still a lot of dots to be connected.

Every DAY is a winding road, not EVERY road. Straighten, shorten, make new roads (OR just ramps and spurs) and railroads. YOU (we all should) get used to that.

[7/8]

Now the hypotenuse and the Edens thing are both gone the obsession continues in another part of Chicagoland!

"Now the hypotenuse and the Edens thing are both gone"?...I bake to differ.

Then this shows up.

http://www.connectingcookcounty.com/pdf/CookCounty_LRTP_Full_V16.pdf

Bunch of good maps. Ouite a few great pages. Still a lot of dots to be connected.

Every DAY is a winding road, not EVERY road. Straighten, shorten, make new roads and railroads. YOU get used to that.

I think you mean beg to differ

[dzlsabe]

NO "begging".  I mean bake. Saw it on the side of a bread truck a thousand times. Get THE recipe, procure the ingredients, knead the loaf, BAKE. Other than that, Mrs L....

[Stratuscaster]

Perhaps if you wrote in English rather than making veiled cryptic references to things involving other people's forum signatures people could understand you.

Hence the need for them to get on the same page. Who IS in charge of the "Strangler"? Dumb looks are still free. Good place to start would be extending the Ike EIS study area west a mile.

Or understanding that "The Strangler" today isn't what you think it is.

Still has major implications for this EIS

Doesn't matter - the Eisenhower Study doesn't go east past Racine. And the Byrne Project doesn't go west of Racine. The Eisenhower Study will need to take into account how the Byrne Project will be configured east of Racine.

Cermak or places south, like Cicero absolutely DONT NEED to be involved. Unless they DO? Its two miles away from Ike. So is North Av, which somehow made it to the "study area". Where are those mostly trucks on the  "C-KC"  highway going? Downtown for lunch?

Much like Lake-Cook and Willow and Deerfield and such around the Edens Spur, Cermak is a local arterial. It's not designed for mainline interstate/intrastate traffic. Madison & Roosevelt are tied into the study because they are closer to the Ike and would be more likely to serve as alternate routes.

So rerename it "I-90". It should go west of Ohare, not north. Intersecting with EOE and I-490 (are they the same?) Quit saying "bypass". Its NOT. It was a bonafide 2DI and should be again.

No, the EOE (IL-390, and it's now a tollway) and I-490 are NOT the same.

It IS a bypass of the northern part of the city and the airport. Whether YOU like it or not.

Today it's a bonafide 3DI loop. There's nothing wrong with the number. What's the control city for WB I-90 today? Rockford. What's the control city for WB I-290 today? Rockford.

Still not seeing any valid reason to renumber a road that's been that way for almost 40 years - it serves no purpose other than to confuse the motoring public.

"Better performing"? HOT & TOLLs on Ike (Congress)? How does that get configured, again?

Look at the study - it shows and explains how the lanes would be added and configured and which ones performed better.

I-355 would be a start. Four tolled lanes from Ikea to 355 possible? And NO spur. Already have ONE of those, which needs to be KILLED within five years. Lets keep this in a twenty year time frame.

Are you not clear on what a "spur" is?

Tolling current I-290 from I-90 to I-355 - all 7 miles of it - isn't worth the hassle and cost. Toll it at least to I-294 - about 17 miles - and now maybe you have something worth doing.

Tolling I-290 as they did with IL-390 - no gates or booths, all I-PASS or Pay-By-Mail - wouldn't take 20 years to do. Realistically, it could be done in less than 5, possibly less than 2.

[hobsini2]

North Ave made it in to the study area because for it's entire length in DuPage Co except east of Rt 83, it is a 6 lane highway that runs great. It remains a 4 lane road all the way to at least Cicero Ave if I recall. North Ave also has a direct interchange with 290. So yeah it makes sense to include it.

Cermak on the other hand is not a good alt once you get into Cicero.

The new tolling on 390 took less than 2 years on the mainline itself. The biggest time eater was the new reconfigured interchange with 290.

[dzlsabe]

Hence the need for them to get on the same page. Who IS in charge of the "Strangler"? Dumb looks are still free. Good place to start would be extending the Ike EIS study area west a mile.

"Or understanding that "The Strangler" today isn't what you think it is."

I understand that the Strangler is the #1 mess in the region, maybe the country. What do YOU think I think it is?

Still has major implications for this EIS

"Doesn't matter - the Eisenhower Study doesn't go east past Racine. And the Byrne Project doesn't go west of Racine. The Eisenhower Study will need to take into account how the Byrne Project will be configured east of Racine."

It DOES matter and thats why traffic from/to a newly improved project needs to be considered.

Cermak or places south, like Cicero absolutely DONT NEED to be involved. Unless they DO? Its two miles away from Ike. So is North Av, which somehow made it to the "study area". Where are those mostly trucks on the  "C-KC"  highway going? Downtown for lunch?

"Much like Lake-Cook and Willow and Deerfield and such around the Edens Spur, Cermak is a local arterial. It's not designed for mainline interstate/intrastate traffic. Madison & Roosevelt are tied into the study because they are closer to the Ike and would be more likely to serve as alternate routes."

Huh? "MUCH LIKE"? No, nothing like. But thanx for bringing up some "veiled cryptic reference".

So rerename it "I-90". It should go west of Ohare, not north. Intersecting with EOE and I-490 (are they the same?) Quit saying "bypass". Its NOT. It was a bonafide 2DI and should be again.

"No, the EOE (IL-390, and it's now a tollway) and I-490 are NOT the same."
"It IS a bypass of the northern part of the city and the airport. Whether YOU like it or not."

I know what it IS. The point of this topic is "WHY did it change"?

"Today it's a bonafide 3DI loop. There's nothing wrong with the number. What's the control city for WB I-90 today? Rockford. What's the control city for WB I-290 today? Rockford."

What does that have to do with anything. The short way is this way...   https://imgur.com/IAt9KVf 

"Still not seeing any valid reason to renumber a road that's been that way for almost 40 years - it serves no purpose other than to confuse the motoring public."

NO, having 90/94 "confuses the motoring public". Count how many 90 & 94 signs you see within a mile of the "road" from 63rd to Montrose. Just eliminating the duplicate signage would save millions.

"Better performing"? HOT & TOLLs on Ike (Congress)? How does that get configured, again?

"Look at the study - it shows and explains how the lanes would be added and configured and which ones performed better."

It shows a bunch of hallucination and explains nothing.

I-355 would be a start. Four tolled lanes from Ikea to 355 possible? And NO spur. Already have ONE of those, which needs to be KILLED within five years. Lets keep this in a twenty year time frame.

"Are you not clear on what a "spur" is?"

A "spur" is like what goes and comes from Ohare. Which is nothing like the Eden's one.

No need for more spurs around here. Go to Texas.

"Tolling current I-290 from I-90 to I-355 - all 7 miles of it - isn't worth the hassle and cost. Toll it at least to I-294 - about 17 miles - and now maybe you have something worth doing."

So you would just amazingly pull it it off in ONE fell swoop? How would you do that?

"Tolling I-290 as they did with IL-390 - no gates or booths, all I-PASS or Pay-By-Mail - wouldn't take 20 years to do. Realistically, it could be done in less than 5, possibly less than 2."

Whats going to take twenty years?

[ixnay]

If the I-90 of dzlsabe's dreams becomes reality, what would the number of the Kennedy between the Junction and the Tri-State become?

ixnay

[roadman65]

I was wondering how a thread can last so long with its OP asking a simple question that can just get a simple quick answer, then I seen how many times the ten year old (now n/a) posted here, and now I know why.