Some thoughts after a visit to California

[pumpkineater2]

I just spent the last 8 days in the Golden State, having stayed in Moreno Valley and Vallejo, spending the majority of my visit in the bay area. I have some thoughts/questions.
Things that I disliked:

• The 55 mph towing speed limit. Why does CA have it when so many other states besides Oregon(I think) don't? It really doesn't make things any safer, especially since the rest of traffic is flying by at 70-80 mph. I don't think that making a trip to the bay area take a miserably long time in the name of alleged safety is worth it.
• The road quality. Maybe I'm just a pampered Phonecian, but there were many "oh shit!" moments as our van bumped, banged, rattled, and bounced along the freeways, especially in the LA area. I guess I was just so so surprised that such poor pavement conditions were allowed to exist in such a widespread fashion. However there were many times where I found bouncing over the uneven sections of bridges and overpasses to be quite fun, like riding a roller coaster.


• Why does California make a curved white line on the right shoulder just before an exit, and then immediately after the exit the white shoulder line is slightly to the right for a short distance? I'm talking about this:https://goo.gl/maps/BBJMbiLbawp It's really annoying for me to look at.

Things I liked:

• California is Interstate shield heaven. I love how State named shields are the norm rather than the exception, and it isn't hard at all to spy a button copy shield here and there. Additionally, I love "Freeway Entrance" signs. Is there a single on ramp in the state that doesn't have them? I'd be surprised. I really wish that Arizona did this.
• Lots of old button copy signage

[Quillz]

Having visited other states, I do wonder why California's way of signing freeway off-ramps hasn't caught on. It seems both informative yet simple, whereas other states just give you a "FREEWAY ENTRANCE" with no other information.

[Revive 755]

• Why does California make a curved white line on the right shoulder just before an exit, and then immediately after the exit the white shoulder line is slightly to the right for a short distance? I'm talking about this:https://goo.gl/maps/BBJMbiLbawp It's really annoying for me to look at.

Thought in another thread on this forum it was indicated that this was for foggy conditions?

As for the speed limits, when I went out to California a few years ago, I don't recall the speed limits being that bad on the interstates - seemed like they mostly stayed at 65 in many of urban areas outside of the business districts or construction zones.  Did they lower them in the past few years or am I remembering wrong?

[bootmii]

As for the speed limits, when I went out to California a few years ago, I don't recall the speed limits being that bad on the interstates - seemed like they mostly stayed at 65 in many of urban areas outside of the business districts or construction zones.  Did they lower them in the past few years or am I remembering wrong?

It's just that the speed limit for trucks and any vehicles towing is 55, not that truckers care. Motorists in general do not care about speed limits in California, then they act surprised when there's a wreck on 17.

[jakeroot]

Additionally, I love "Freeway Entrance" signs. Is there a single on ramp in the state that doesn't have them? I'd be surprised. I really wish that Arizona did this.

I'm pretty sure California, Nevada, and Washington are the only states that regularly use "FREEWAY ENTRANCE" signs. Oregon uses them sparingly, but not regularly.

I am also a big fan of this, but mostly because I grew up in Washington. If anything, I just like to know when I'm entering a freeway, because it tells me several things (speed limit change, chief among them).

[dfwmapper]

• The road quality. Maybe I'm just a pampered Phonecian, but there were many "oh shit!" moments as our van bumped, banged, rattled, and bounced along the freeways, especially in the LA area. I guess I was just so so surprised that such poor pavement conditions were allowed to exist in such a widespread fashion. However there were many times where I found bouncing over the uneven sections of bridges and overpasses to be quite fun, like riding a roller coaster.

Most of California's older concrete highways have no reinforcement from one section to the next, which leads to the characteristic "popping" noise as you drive over it as well as the bumps and other problems when the sections settle unevenly. States with money to do the job right pave with continuously reinforced concrete so the pavement basically lasts forever in perfect condition, while states with somewhat less money will at least reinforce the joints so that there isn't the uneven settling (usually visible as 3 lines across each joint where the tires would be crossing. I don't think Phoenix has any concrete left that is that old, and the rubberized asphalt overlay on everything smooths over a lot of problems.

[Max Rockatansky]

I always liked the 55 MPH limit for vehicles hauling trailers.  Not that anyone is really following the speed limit in urban areas but it does help make them run slower than cars for the most part.  I've actually seen a lot of truckers maintain 80 MPH plus on I-10 in Arizona which makes it a pain in the ass to pass them. 

One that's really weird if you are out in the the Sonoran and Mojave deserts is the road surface hum you'll get one some highways like CA 62 and US 95.  What's even stranger is some of the older surfaces in the desert have gotten a red tint to them over time.

[Quillz]

I always liked the 55 MPH limit for vehicles hauling trailers.  Not that anyone is really following the speed limit in urban areas but it does help make them run slower than cars for the most part.  I've actually seen a lot of truckers maintain 80 MPH plus on I-10 in Arizona which makes it a pain in the ass to pass them. 

One that's really weird if you are out in the the Sonoran and Mojave deserts is the road surface hum you'll get one some highways like CA 62 and US 95.  What's even stranger is some of the older surfaces in the desert have gotten a red tint to them over time.

Might be the building material. A lot of Utah state highways have red asphalt.

[coatimundi]

Things that I disliked:

You left both Moreno Valley and Vallejo off of this list. I'll just assume that was a mistake.

I mean, there are definitely worse pavement conditions out there (I would say that Illinois and PA would be my top candidates for the interstates), but California seems to be the worst in the West. I would assume it's just because there's a lot of lane mileage and limited budget. And then we have an ass ton of truck traffic that tears that nice new pavement to shreds as soon as it's laid down. There are some sections of roadway where I've seen trucks actually default to using the left lane when not passing because the bumps are so bad. The 101 is like that in several places near me.

I've always assumed that the state on the interstate shield here was more out of vanity than anything else. Telling you that you should feel lucky that you're here.

[Quillz]

Things that I disliked:

You left both Moreno Valley and Vallejo off of this list. I'll just assume that was a mistake.

I mean, there are definitely worse pavement conditions out there (I would say that Illinois and PA would be my top candidates for the interstates), but California seems to be the worst in the West. I would assume it's just because there's a lot of lane mileage and limited budget. And then we have an ass ton of truck traffic that tears that nice new pavement to shreds as soon as it's laid down. There are some sections of roadway where I've seen trucks actually default to using the left lane when not passing because the bumps are so bad. The 101 is like that in several places near me.

I've always assumed that the state on the interstate shield here was more out of vanity than anything else. Telling you that you should feel lucky that you're here.

I think it's just California never adopted a standard beyond the '57 interstate specs. Same is also true of the US route shields.

[Max Rockatansky]

I always liked the 55 MPH limit for vehicles hauling trailers.  Not that anyone is really following the speed limit in urban areas but it does help make them run slower than cars for the most part.  I've actually seen a lot of truckers maintain 80 MPH plus on I-10 in Arizona which makes it a pain in the ass to pass them. 

One that's really weird if you are out in the the Sonoran and Mojave deserts is the road surface hum you'll get one some highways like CA 62 and US 95.  What's even stranger is some of the older surfaces in the desert have gotten a red tint to them over time.

Might be the building material. A lot of Utah state highways have red asphalt.

Most definitely and it seems to be coming from some local quarry.  Kelbaker Road (yeah way off the deep end) had a lot of that red asphalt as well...along with several other various roads in the area with peel back of the top layer of asphalt. 

[coatimundi]

I always liked the 55 MPH limit for vehicles hauling trailers.  Not that anyone is really following the speed limit in urban areas but it does help make them run slower than cars for the most part.  I've actually seen a lot of truckers maintain 80 MPH plus on I-10 in Arizona which makes it a pain in the ass to pass them. 

One that's really weird if you are out in the the Sonoran and Mojave deserts is the road surface hum you'll get one some highways like CA 62 and US 95.  What's even stranger is some of the older surfaces in the desert have gotten a red tint to them over time.

Might be the building material. A lot of Utah state highways have red asphalt.

Most definitely and it seems to be coming from some local quarry.  Kelbaker Road (yeah way off the deep end) had a lot of that red asphalt as well...along with several other various roads in the area with peel back of the top layer of asphalt.

Right. This is like Texas' "Golden Highway". The roadbed materials (rocks, at least) are always sourced locally because it just makes sense to do it that way. Unless proper material isn't available, of course.

[sparker]

Much of the rock used in the Sonoran and eastern Mojave deserts is locally mined; large quarry operations dot the area from Lucerne Valley east through the Yucca Valley/29 Palms region.  The local rocks are typically rich with iron ore; Kaiser had a huge mining operation at Eagle Mountain, north of Desert Center, until it ran dry about 25 years ago -- complete with a dedicated rail line (the Eagle Mountain Railroad) which ferried the loads from the mine to the SP (now UP) main line on the northeast shore of the Salton Sea.  The high concentration of iron particles accounts for the reddish tint to the rock materials sourced locally.

[djsekani]

• The 55 mph towing speed limit. Why does CA have it when so many other states besides Oregon(I think) don't? It really doesn't make things any safer, especially since the rest of traffic is flying by at 70-80 mph. I don't think that making a trip to the bay area take a miserably long time in the name of alleged safety is worth it.

California is one of the very few states that still have a separate truck speed limit. Since the state has an abnormally high number of collisions involving trucks I wouldn't expect this to change anytime soon.

[Max Rockatansky]

Much of the rock used in the Sonoran and eastern Mojave deserts is locally mined; large quarry operations dot the area from Lucerne Valley east through the Yucca Valley/29 Palms region.  The local rocks are typically rich with iron ore; Kaiser had a huge mining operation at Eagle Mountain, north of Desert Center, until it ran dry about 25 years ago -- complete with a dedicated rail line (the Eagle Mountain Railroad) which ferried the loads from the mine to the SP (now UP) main line on the northeast shore of the Salton Sea.  The high concentration of iron particles accounts for the reddish tint to the rock materials sourced locally.

So that's why Eagle Mountain is all boarded up and locked down.  I actually traveled up there once on Kaiser Road/R2 since it was long abandoned just to see what was there.  Basically you could tell it was a company mining town and some of the machinery can still be west of Desert Center on I-10.  Word was the Marines out of 29 Palms were using the site for urban combat exercises which would explain why it was boarded up and fenced so well.  That would explain why it's only the older road surfaces have that red tint.

[jwolfer]

• The 55 mph towing speed limit. Why does CA have it when so many other states besides Oregon(I think) don't? It really doesn't make things any safer, especially since the rest of traffic is flying by at 70-80 mph. I don't think that making a trip to the bay area take a miserably long time in the name of alleged safety is worth it.

California is one of the very few states that still have a separate truck speed limit. Since the state has an abnormally high number of collisions involving trucks I wouldn't expect this to change anytime soon.

I would think the speed differential between cars and trucks would cause more collisions

[jwolfer]

California was state of art in 1965, and then stayed there. I only drove in California in SF Bay are back in 1997, and roads seemed stuck 25+ years in the past.  And the signs looked really ghetto, with patches of MIS matched colors etc .

Granted it's a large populous state, but they should do better with maintenance and signing

My nephew lived in San Diego and Los Angeles, he said coming home to Florida the free ways all seemed so smooth.. and people here in Jacksonville bitch about the roads

[AsphaltPlanet]

One of the things that has always caught me off guard about the pavement conditions in California, is that Caltrans doesn't replace pavements when they do widening projects.  I recall for example driving the recently widened section of CA-60 and I-215 through Riverside County, and being shocked at the poor pavement conditions on such a recently widened stretch of highway.  Where I am from, the DOT would take the opportunity of adding new lanes onto a road as an opportunity to shift traffic off of the old road to resurface the old road.  This doesn't seem to happen in California.  Also, because California uses raised pavement markings as much as they do, there always seems to be tons of pock marks on the roads surface from decades of temporary or former lane configurations.  All that said though, I think Riverside County may have the worst pavement in California.  Just for comparison sake, I'd say that San Diego County has much, much better pavement quality.

[coatimundi]

One of the things that has always caught me off guard about the pavement conditions in California, is that Caltrans doesn't replace pavements when they do widening projects.

Yeah, you're right, they often don't unless they absolutely have to. You see old, painted-over lane markings all the time on California roads everywhere. They often don't even make that much of an effort to cover them up. It's not just Riverside. It's all over the 101 up here whenever it's been realigned for whatever reason.

[silverback1065]

One of the things that has always caught me off guard about the pavement conditions in California, is that Caltrans doesn't replace pavements when they do widening projects.  I recall for example driving the recently widened section of CA-60 and I-215 through Riverside County, and being shocked at the poor pavement conditions on such a recently widened stretch of highway.  Where I am from, the DOT would take the opportunity of adding new lanes onto a road as an opportunity to shift traffic off of the old road to resurface the old road.  This doesn't seem to happen in California.  Also, because California uses raised pavement markings as much as they do, there always seems to be tons of pock marks on the roads surface from decades of temporary or former lane configurations.  All that said though, I think Riverside County may have the worst pavement in California.  Just for comparison sake, I'd say that San Diego County has much, much better pavement quality.

probably a money issue

[Avalanchez71]

Additionally, I love "Freeway Entrance" signs. Is there a single on ramp in the state that doesn't have them? I'd be surprised. I really wish that Arizona did this.

I'm pretty sure California, Nevada, and Washington are the only states that regularly use "FREEWAY ENTRANCE" signs. Oregon uses them sparingly, but not regularly.

I am also a big fan of this, but mostly because I grew up in Washington. If anything, I just like to know when I'm entering a freeway, because it tells me several things (speed limit change, chief among them).

Tennessee uses the no pedistrian/No non-motorized vehicles regulatory sign in lieu of the CA Freeway Entrance signs.

[coatimundi]

Tennessee uses the no pedistrian/No non-motorized vehicles regulatory sign in lieu of the CA Freeway Entrance signs.

California uses these signs additionally. Just in case you didn't know you couldn't bring your horsecart onto the freeway from a sprawl exit in Pomona, you must be reminded.

[sparker]

You'll find more "no pedestrian/no NMV" signs at freeway entrances in urban areas with closely-spaced interchanges, where kids & other sundry folks might be tempted to walk or ride their bikes on the freeway between ramps to save a block or two.  Since white-on-green, like the "Freeway Entrance" signage, denotes guide signs and black-on-white denotes legal notification, the "NP/NMV" signs are invariably black lettering on a white background.  The idea here is to cover all bases -- to welcome appropriate vehicles while prohibiting others.  That being said, I've noticed a few scattered around rural areas (such as along CA 99), probably to keep locals from bringing farm equipment on the road -- sometimes the definition of "appropriate" motorized vehicles can be a bit ambiguous. 

[silverback1065]

Indiana does this for their ramps: https://www.google.com/maps/@39.9205706,-86.1109481,3a,19.2y,114.9h,81.82t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1spD7d2j_Gd5AGIX0CRmOIOQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

[pumpkineater2]

• The 55 mph towing speed limit. Why does CA have it when so many other states besides Oregon(I think) don't? It really doesn't make things any safer, especially since the rest of traffic is flying by at 70-80 mph. I don't think that making a trip to the bay area take a miserably long time in the name of alleged safety is worth it.

California is one of the very few states that still have a separate truck speed limit. Since the state has an abnormally high number of collisions involving trucks I wouldn't expect this to change anytime soon.

I would think the speed differential between cars and trucks would cause more collisions

That's what I'm saying. Makes the trip miserably long and more dangerous.