I-265 Ohio River Bridge

[billtm]

http://www.vox.com/science-and-health/2017/1/5/14143746/louisville-spaghetti-junction?utm_campaign=vox.social&utm_medium=social&utm_content=voxdotcom&utm_source=facebook

This article is sure to piss you guys off

Yep, it sure pissed me off. Whenever that article gave examples of freeways being removed, it's usually short freeways like the Central Freeway in SF. Those I can understand how they'd have minimal impact on traffic given that it was little more than a glorified offramp (same with the Embarcadero Freeway), and didn't really carry much thru traffic, but ripping out actual 2di freeways through cities is something that has never been done before (at least not yet) and hopefully never spreads beyond the Community Gridlock idea in Rochester. And I have never really understood the argument that new urbanist hipsters put forth about freeways being a "scar" on a city. How is it a scar? Freeways help cities, not wound them!

Yeah, and even in Rochester it makes a little more sense as that city has been steadily losing population.

[TR69]

http://www.vox.com/science-and-health/2017/1/5/14143746/louisville-spaghetti-junction?utm_campaign=vox.social&utm_medium=social&utm_content=voxdotcom&utm_source=facebook

This article is sure to piss you guys off

Yep, it sure pissed me off. Whenever that article gave examples of freeways being removed, it's usually short freeways like the Central Freeway in SF. Those I can understand how they'd have minimal impact on traffic given that it was little more than a glorified offramp (same with the Embarcadero Freeway), and didn't really carry much thru traffic, but ripping out actual 2di freeways through cities is something that has never been done before (at least not yet) and hopefully never spreads beyond the Community Gridlock idea in Rochester. And I have never really understood the argument that new urbanist hipsters put forth about freeways being a "scar" on a city. How is it a scar? Freeways help cities, not wound them!

Yeah, and even in Rochester it makes a little more sense as that city has been steadily losing population.

There are few things that would please me more than to see the elimination of I-64 between I-65 and I-264 in downtown Louisville. It is an elevated expressway that is a terrible blight on our downtown. It's hideous, it creates darkness, and it invites graffiti and vandalism. It's a scar on what could be a very nice urban riverfront landscape. It mars the many millions (billions?) of dollars the city has spent on beautifying its waterfront. Symbolically, it separates the city from the reason for her existence in the first place: the river.

I daresay that local traffic barely uses it, and what little local traffic that does use it could use a surface boulevard just as easily. Long-haul traffic can simply use I-264 or, now, the new I-265 (IN 265/KY 841) highway through Indiana.

However, those in favor of I-64 through the heart of the city probably needn't worry much. The 8664 movement had some momentum years ago, but I think it has pretty much died out at this point.

[NWI_Irish96]

Local traffic does use it quite a bit.  There are plenty of daily commuters from Floyd County to downtown Louisville.  You're adding 10 minutes to their commute if you remove 64, and I'm not saying it shouldn't be done, but there is a cost.  Also, if you're going to force all that traffic around 265 to 65, you'll absolutely have to get rid of the cloverleafs at that interchange (which already really needs to be done).

[hbelkins]

There are few things that would please me more than to see the elimination of I-64 between I-65 and I-264 in downtown Louisville.

You missed that boat about 60 years ago.

Me, I'd like to see a zillion-lane freeway completely obliterate everything inside the Watterson. 

[TR69]

Local traffic does use it quite a bit.  There are plenty of daily commuters from Floyd County to downtown Louisville.  You're adding 10 minutes to their commute if you remove 64, and I'm not saying it shouldn't be done, but there is a cost. 

I can compromise and keep a stub from the Sherman Minton to 9th Street. I-764?

[Revive 755]

^ How about absolutely not?

[NE2]

Me, I'd like to see a zillion-lane freeway completely obliterate everything inside the Watterson. 

duke.

[silverback1065]

64 will get more traffic now due to toll dodgers

[hbelkins]

64 will get more traffic now due to toll dodgers

Going that far out of the way to avoid a $2 toll just doesn't make sense.

[Revive 755]

Going that far out of the way to avoid a $2 toll just doesn't make sense.

I thought the rate was $4 though for those without a transponder?  That would be enough that if I didn't have a transponder I would start considering alternative routings.

[mvak36]

Going that far out of the way to avoid a $2 toll just doesn't make sense.

I thought the rate was $4 though for those without a transponder?  That would be enough that if I didn't have a transponder I would start considering alternative routings.

I got the IPass for like 10 bucks so I could use it whenever I get around to trying to clinch interstates in the EZ-Pass states. I'm not sure how feasible it would be for others.

[seicer]

64 will get more traffic now due to toll dodgers

So far... that has not been the case.

For a point west of I-265 in Indiana on I-64 to I-71 northeast of I-265, its 33 minutes/31.4 miles via I-265 or 32 minutes/31.3 miles via I-64 and I-71. In rush hour, this is going to be considerably different and you'll add easily 30 minutes to I-64/I-71.

for I-65 north of I-265 to I-64 east of I-265, it's 24 minutes/24.9 miles via I-65/64, or 25 minutes/25.1 miles via I-265. Add 30 minutes easy in rush hour for the former route. To avoid tolls, its 38 minutes/33.8 miles, plus 30 minutes or more in rush hour. Few will do that.

[NWI_Irish96]

I've yet to have anyone say that they are using I-64 to avoid tolls, but I did talk to several people Saturday who are using US 31 in lieu of I-65.

[RoadWarrior56]

I live in the Atlanta area and have a Peach Pass transponder on my car.  However, I have an elderly parent in the Louisville area and spend considerable time there.  I don't mind paying the tolls for the new bridges.  I do realize that if it weren't for the tolls, these bridges would not had been constructed at all.  However, my pet frustration is the lack of interoperability between various toll systems.  As of now, Peach Pass does not work with EZ-Pass or presumably River Link.  Thus I presume I will have to pay the maximum $4.00 toll to cross each bridge, rather than getting the transponder discount.  That P.O.'s me.   

[SP Cook]

Of the mainstream media's multiple failings, not least among them is to take self-appointed advocay groups seriously.  A professional journalist writing about a nut-fringe group like 8664 would first determine how many members it has, and then in the lead paragraph explain that it speaks for 0.1% of the affected community.

[hbelkins]

Not toll-avoiding related, but one very serious drawback to using I-265 as a bypass for I-64 is the fact that you have that nasty cloverleaf weave if you're going from the inner loop of 265 (signed southbound at that point) to eastbound I-64. I got in that mess going in the opposite direction a few years ago (eastbound 64 to northbound 265) during morning rush and it was a cluster-foxtrot; so much so that the next morning, when going to the same location, I opted to use surface routes to get to my destination on Westport Road.

[thefro]

Not toll-avoiding related, but one very serious drawback to using I-265 as a bypass for I-64 is the fact that you have that nasty cloverleaf weave if you're going from the inner loop of 265 (signed southbound at that point) to eastbound I-64. I got in that mess going in the opposite direction a few years ago (eastbound 64 to northbound 265) during morning rush and it was a cluster-foxtrot; so much so that the next morning, when going to the same location, I opted to use surface routes to get to my destination on Westport Road.

That probably should be fixed since you can actually use I-265 to bypass the downtown portions of I-64/I-65 now instead of just using it for local traffic and to transfer interstates.

[seicer]

It's in the long range plans. Has the I-71/265 rebuild advanced, too?

[silverback1065]

i'll use 31 and 64 to avoid the tolls, i go down that way like once every 4 years, as a very infrequent user, i would probably avoid the toll, but i also may go anyway on the new bridges just to see what they look like. 

[NWI_Irish96]

Not toll-avoiding related, but one very serious drawback to using I-265 as a bypass for I-64 is the fact that you have that nasty cloverleaf weave if you're going from the inner loop of 265 (signed southbound at that point) to eastbound I-64. I got in that mess going in the opposite direction a few years ago (eastbound 64 to northbound 265) during morning rush and it was a cluster-foxtrot; so much so that the next morning, when going to the same location, I opted to use surface routes to get to my destination on Westport Road.

I think I mentioned this already but 265/65 in Indiana also needs to get rid of the 3 cloverleafs it has.

[mvak36]

I think that the 265 interchanges with 64, 65 (South Louisville one, not the Indiana one), and 71 all need the cloverleafs removed. I would do them in the following order: 71, 64, and 65. I'm not a civil engineer, but it looks like they might be able to make the 265/65 interchange into a turbine interchange without having to acquire too much ROW.

[RoadWarrior56]

In order to remove the weaving sections from a pure cloverleaf, two of the diagonal loops could be replaced with directional ramps (in the case of the I-64 interchange, maybe remove the SW and NE loops based on possible heaviest traffic patterns).  The remaining two loops could remain with their acceleration lanes lenghtened, being that there would no longer be weaving sections.

[mvak36]

I think I mentioned this already but 265/65 in Indiana also needs to get rid of the 3 cloverleafs it has.

That interchange also looks like a good candidate for a turbine interchange (if they get rid of all the cloverleafs). Or, if they only do one cloverleaf, make the WB 265 to SB 65 a flyover or directional ramp to get rid of the weaving.

[silverback1065]

http://www.citylab.com/commute/2017/01/has-louisville-figured-out-how-to-eliminate-traffic-congestion/513530/?utm_source=SFFB

this article fails to mention that a free route has to be maintained by law.

[NE2]

this article fails to mention that a free route has to be maintained by law.

What law?