The most common driver mistake that you see where you live?

[kphoger]

a 5-10 mph difference in speed is indeed very helpful.

if the fast lane is moving 77, and the slow lane 67, then you can merge at one of two speeds:

1) 57mph.  staid but respectable.
2) 77mph.  it is elegantly also the speed of the fast lane.

under no circumstances is merging at slower than 57mph acceptable.

Around here, the flow of traffic is seldom above 65 mph and is usually pretty close to the posted limit of 60.  In heavy traffic, the center lane is more like 50 or 55.

[agentsteel53]

Quite common around here too.  Especially annoying, since I work right by a four-way where this happens all the time.  I've gotten to the point that I just don't feel like waiting for them to figure out the situation.  Have you ever rolled up to a four-way, and found vehicles on all three other approaches trying to figure out who should go first?  When I roll up to that situation, I just go first, even though I got there last.  I'm not going to waste my time, and everyone's behind me, waiting for them to figure out how stop signs work.

the worst is when you're behind someone who is sitting there, studying the Uniform Vehicle Code by chapter and verse, looking for inconsistencies and loopholes. 

there have been times when I've just had to go around them... astonishing that they print the Uniform Vehicle Code on a tube of lipstick these days.

[texaskdog]

Still number one is the idiots texting at red lights who aren't ready when the light changes, causing you to miss lights.

[Brandon]

Still number one is the idiots texting at red lights who aren't ready when the light changes, causing you to miss lights.

That's one of the things the horn is for.  Sit at the light more than 2 seconds after green, and you deserve that loud noise coming from behind you.  Green means "move your flipping ass", folks.

[1995hoo]

....

Straying from the topic a bit, when I first started driving in Downtown Denver (in the 1980's,) it was the first time I had seen legal "left turn on red,"  in the case of two one-way streets intersecting in the correct alignment. It makes perfect sense, but to this day I do not think I have ever seen a sign noting is acceptability.

....

I think the rationale for the lack of a sign on this one is that in most places where left on red is permitted, the rule is that it's allowed unless a sign prohibits it. I can think of only one place where I've seen a sign that said "LEFT TURN ON RED AFTER STOP," and that sign (corner of West and Main in Fairfax City, Virginia) is no longer there because the roads were reconfigured and they're no longer one-way.

Less rare, in my observation (I say "less rare" to denote that it's still uncommon), is a "NO TURN ON RED" sign where left on red would otherwise be permitted. Actually, I made a left on red at just such a spot yesterday (the sign prohibits turns on red when pedestrians are present). Street View here. The intersecting street is one-way to the left here but two-way to the right.

I believe the theory is just like right on red: Unless you see a sign, if the state allows left on red you can presume it's allowed (usually only from a one-way onto another one-way). In places where it's not allowed at all, there won't be any sign, of course.

You know, this raises another common driver mistake I see: Not making lefts on red when it's legal and safe. There aren't all that many intersections around here where it's allowed, but I can think of a fair number of them and I am the only person I know who ever makes a left on red. Most people simply don't know it's allowed at all, probably because it's not all that common. I am sure we've had this discussion in another thread somewhere, but I recall a friend of mine who, when I mentioned left on red, told me I was nuts, so when I cited her to the applicable Virginia statute and to the DMV manual (on their website), she replied, "Yeah, well, I've never heard of that so I'm going to keep driving the way I always have." OK, look, I recognize nothing requires anyone to turn on red (be it right or left), but if your reason for not doing it is that you don't know it's allowed, and then you're given proof it's allowed, why continue to pooh-pooh it?

[kphoger]

I am sure we've had this discussion in another thread somewhere, but I recall a friend of mine who, when I mentioned left on red, told me I was nuts, so when I cited her to the applicable Virginia statute and to the DMV manual (on their website), she replied, "Yeah, well, I've never heard of that so I'm going to keep driving the way I always have." OK, look, I recognize nothing requires anyone to turn on red (be it right or left), but if your reason for not doing it is that you don't know it's allowed, and then you're given proof it's allowed, why continue to pooh-pooh it?

Yep.  I specifically remember your story:

Holy thread revival!  I hope it is OK to revive this one but it didn't seem to make sense to start a new thread for my addition.

Visiting my mother in the hospital the other day, I was among a couple people aboard an elevator that was stopping at every floor for no one, without anyone aboard pushing any buttons for any stop before the 7th floor.  I remarked that the same people who program the vast majority of Akron traffic lights to change on a set timer day and night, responding to a call or not, must now be in charge of the elevators.  A fellow passenger agreed and then remarked that even worse than that, he's seen people all the time make left turns on red at one of the intersections right near the hospital!  The horror!  He didn't really believe me when I told him that it turns out to actually be legal (heck, there is a sign at another Akron intersection that even says so) but said that legal or not the police mustn't care because he's seen them "ignore" people making the lefts on red.

I thought it was interesting that the guy just brought that up and is sure that it couldn't be legal to make the left on red.  I hope I'm not stuck behind him at one of the classic mistimed Akron lights that is bearable only with such a legal turn....

A bit off topic, but was it on a weekend?  Some elevators are set up at religious institutions/hospitals that way so you would not be "working" by pressing buttons on the sabbath.

A "Sabbath Elevator." They're not confined to religious institutions and hospitals. In New York some apartment buildings and co-ops have them. The other residents generally know which elevator to avoid. Some newer buildings have a more clever twist where the residents for whom this is an issue have to request the service and the management will program the elevator to stop on those floors (presumably not all elevators allow this kind of programming, thus making the "stop on all floors" the default option in other buildings). Apparently this sort of thing is not unique to elevators–some ovens have a "Sabbath mode" to allow for keeping pre-cooked food warm (this because many ovens will now turn off automatically after some preset time for safety reasons), and some refrigerators apparently have a "Sabbath" feature that disables the interior light for the Sabbath so that the observant user cannot be said to have "turned on" the light by opening the door.


But to return to the main topic: The comment from the fellow PurdueBill encountered doesn't surprise me at all. Another forum I visit has a thread about things that are annoying you and I commented one day about getting stuck behind someone who simply refused to go left on red at an intersection where it was allowed. Several people responded along the lines of, "WTF is the matter with you? You can't go left on red." So I linked, and quoted, the relevant statute from the Code of Virginia (since I was driving in Virginia). One of them responded with a comment that was something like, "Yeah, well, I've never heard of that so I'm not about to start doing it." I can certainly understand why she wouldn't just take my word for it, but when I presented the statute.....  

The really scary thing is that I was able to find your story by searching for "sabbath elevator".  How I could possibly remember that the story was in the same seven-month-old post as the sabbath elevator thing is beyond me!

[agentsteel53]

how can someone know, for all jurisdictions (50 states, DC, NYC, etc) where things like "left turn on red one-way to one-way", "right turn on red", "U turn", etc are prohibited?

is this realistic to expect someone to know this?  seems to me you'd need to be some kind of savant.

[kphoger]

is this realistic to expect someone to know this?

No.  But what's the alternative?  Never ticket out-of-staters?

[The High Plains Traveler]

Red lights are considered to be green in Pueblo for at least two seconds after they turn red. Green protected left turn arrows remain in effect for at least ten seconds after they go out as long as there is a continuous flow of left-turning traffic.

[Brandon]

Less rare, in my observation (I say "less rare" to denote that it's still uncommon), is a "NO TURN ON RED" sign where left on red would otherwise be permitted. Actually, I made a left on red at just such a spot yesterday (the sign prohibits turns on red when pedestrians are present). Street View here. The intersecting street is one-way to the left here but two-way to the right.

That's a strange one to have a signal at, IMHO.  In some areas, that would be a porkchop directing traffic right or left without a signal.

I believe the theory is just like right on red: Unless you see a sign, if the state allows left on red you can presume it's allowed (usually only from a one-way onto another one-way). In places where it's not allowed at all, there won't be any sign, of course.

Of course, in some states, one can turn left on red from a two-way street onto a one-way street (Michigan for example).

[kphoger]

how can someone know, for all jurisdictions (50 states, DC, NYC, etc) where things like "left turn on red one-way to one-way", "right turn on red", "U turn", etc are prohibited?

is this realistic to expect someone to know this?  seems to me you'd need to be some kind of savant.

See:

As differing rules go, at least one Vancouver resident holds first-hand experience. Several years ago, City Attorney Ted Gathe found himself on the wrong end of a red-light camera in Northeast Portland. Vancouver has considered the enforcement cameras in the past, but ultimately decided not to put the technology in place here.

Gathe said the traffic light was yellow when he entered the intersection, but turned red before he got through. The camera flashed. Gathe ended up with a ticket.

Gathe made his case before a municipal judge, he said, arguing he lawfully entered the intersection before the light turned red. The judge listened, and responded with something to the effect of "You're not from around here, are you?"  Gathe said.

Ultimately, the ticket was reduced, Gathe said. But he still ended up with a fine of about $250.

...

[agentsteel53]

Of course, in some states, one can turn left on red from a two-way street onto a one-way street (Michigan for example).

does this apply to freeway on-ramps at diamond interchanges as well?  does the off-ramp and corresponding on-ramp count as a one-way street?

[empirestate]

Very common errors in Wichita (in addition to not signalling lane changes, which I think Kphoger mentioned above):

*  Using a TWLTL to stage left turns out of driveways

Not an error in New York; rather, it's the legal and proper way to use such a lane, as discussed lengthily in another recent thread. In fact, I'd count not-knowing-that-this-is-how-those-lanes-are-to-be-used as a common driver mistake itself.

Legal, yes; proper, no.  Because of the line-of-sight issues described upthread, it is a very unsafe maneuver and is to be avoided whenever possible.  It really should not be legal in the first place, and banning it would give highway agencies an incentive to implement proper access management.

Can't be both yes and no, by my intended meaning. I used "proper" as connoted by being legal and officially sanctioned, so if legal=yes, then proper=yes. Now, whether it's proper in terms of being safe or a good idea, I'll leave that discussion to another thread.

Straying from the topic a bit, when I first started driving in Downtown Denver (in the 1980's,) it was the first time I had seen legal "left turn on red,"  in the case of two one-way streets intersecting in the correct alignment. It makes perfect sense, but to this day I do not think I have ever seen a sign noting is acceptability.

You'll find them occasionally in NYC, where turns on red (in either direction) must be explicitly permitted.

how can someone know, for all jurisdictions (50 states, DC, NYC, etc) where things like "left turn on red one-way to one-way", "right turn on red", "U turn", etc are prohibited?

is this realistic to expect someone to know this?  seems to me you'd need to be some kind of savant.

Easy; there's an app for that: http://www.technomadia.com/apps/State_Lines.html

[Brandon]

Of course, in some states, one can turn left on red from a two-way street onto a one-way street (Michigan for example).

does this apply to freeway on-ramps at diamond interchanges as well?  does the off-ramp and corresponding on-ramp count as a one-way street?

Yes, it does.  It makes driving much easier, IMHO.  Why should I have to wait to turn onto a one-way street if the way is clear?  It's not like traffic coming at me can do much else other than stop at the red light.

[roadman]

One of the biggest errors I see (and is increasingly a pet peeve of mine) is drivers who, when backing out of their driveway to proceed in the lane adjacent to their property, turn so wide that they encroach on both sides of the street.

Of course, one could argue that drivers should actually back into their driveway, which would then allow them to directly pull out into the street.  I adopted this practice years ago, and I find it's much easier and quicker (fewer blind spots for one thing) than backing out of the driveway into traffic.

[Molandfreak]

Still number one is the idiots texting at red lights who aren't ready when the light changes, causing you to miss lights.

That's one of the things the horn is for.  Sit at the light more than 2 seconds after green, and you deserve that loud noise coming from behind you.  Green means "move your flipping ass", folks.

This.

[1995hoo]

One of the biggest errors I see (and is increasingly a pet peeve of mine) is drivers who, when backing out of their driveway to proceed in the lane adjacent to their property, turn so wide that they encroach on both sides of the street

Of course, one could argue that drivers should actually back into their driveway, which would then allow them to directly pull out into the street.  I adopted this practice years ago, and I find it's much easier and quicker (fewer bilnd spots for one thing) than backing out of the driveway into traffic.

Back-in parking done by people who are uncomfortable doing it ranks high on my list of pet peeves, especially at places like the shopping mall. Don't get me wrong, I understand the benefits of it, especially if you drive a small car or a car with large blind spots (my RX-7 qualifies as both!) and you're concerned about getting stuck between large vehicles like SUVs. Pulling straight through to face out is better, IMO, but of course you can't always do that. Anyway, I used to hate it when I worked downtown and the back-in crowd always took FOREVER to park, backing up at the wrong angle, pulling out, backing in again, pulling out, afraid of the wall, etc.....

For us at our house it's irrelevant, not enough traffic on our street to be an issue. I do back the convertible into the garage when I park it there because it's easier to jumpstart it if it's parked backwards. Otherwise, I always pull into the garage the normal way. We have a one-car garage with enough junk on either side (snowblower, trash can, recycle bins, golf bags, folded bicycle, etc.) and it's a tight enough squeeze in my Acura that parking backwards is more of a hassle than anything else. The convertible is far smaller car.

[roadman]

@1995hoo

Excellent points, and I agree about back-in parkers who obviously shouldn't be doing it.  However, at my local commuter rail lot, I usually see similar behaviors from people who pull directly into their spaces.  Either that, or they blindly pull in off-center, crooked, and/or straddling the adjacent space, and they don't bother to correct it.

[J N Winkler]

[Legality, propriety, or otherwise of using a TWLTL to stage left turns]

Can't be both yes and no, by my intended meaning. I used "proper" as connoted by being legal and officially sanctioned, so if legal=yes, then proper=yes. Now, whether it's proper in terms of being safe or a good idea, I'll leave that discussion to another thread.

If discussion of this particular issue should be shifted to another thread, then it would be helpful to provide a link to that thread.  I have run searches on {two-way left-turn lane} and {TWLTL} and this thread is the first I have found in which this particular issue has surfaced.  The last discussion I remember which dealt with staging left turns actually pertained to a length of US 50 in northern Virginia where the median (no TWLTL is present) is narrow enough that double-stacking in the crossover is not allowed.

[Kacie Jane]

Of course, in some states, one can turn left on red from a two-way street onto a one-way street (Michigan for example).

does this apply to freeway on-ramps at diamond interchanges as well?  does the off-ramp and corresponding on-ramp count as a one-way street?

In Washington, it's specified that yes it does.  I don't know about the rest of the handful of states that allow such a turn though.

[empirestate]

If discussion of this particular issue should be shifted to another thread, then it would be helpful to provide a link to that thread.  I have run searches on {two-way left-turn lane} and {TWLTL} and this thread is the first I have found in which this particular issue has surfaced.  The last discussion I remember which dealt with staging left turns actually pertained to a length of US 50 in northern Virginia where the median (no TWLTL is present) is narrow enough that double-stacking in the crossover is not allowed.

It's here: https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=8252.msg191782#msg191782 and ff. The search term you wanted was "center turn lane", as it turns out.

[KEK Inc.]

Sticking your middle finger up is not a proper hand signal.

[kphoger]

One of the biggest errors I see (and is increasingly a pet peeve of mine) is drivers who, when backing out of their driveway to proceed in the lane adjacent to their property, turn so wide that they encroach on both sides of the street.

Of course, one could argue that drivers should actually back into their driveway, which would then allow them to directly pull out into the street.  I adopted this practice years ago, and I find it's much easier and quicker (fewer blind spots for one thing) than backing out of the driveway into traffic.

After having driven a forklift for years, and then driving a delivery truck for a year or two after that, driving in reverse is almost as easy for me as driving forwards.  I always back into our driveway, and usually back into parking spaces.  Sometimes, I even find it easier to back in:  since the steering wheels are in the front, I find it quite easy to position the corner of my rear bumper where I want it and swing the rest of the car around it.  Almost but not quite like tying string to two pencils, poking one of them into a notebook, and swinging the other one around in a circle–the poked one being analogous to the rear of the car, and the free-swinging one to the front of the car.  I haven't really seen people who aren't good at it attempt it, though:  it seems like they usually avoid reverse gear as much as possible.  Like roadman, I see just as many people–probably more–fail at nosing in.  Sometimes on more than one attempt.



Back on the topic of stopping for emergency vehicles on divided roadways....  Just the other day, I personally got to witness why it can be a good idea to still stop on the other side of the median.  I was stopped at a red light, in the left lane of a 4-lane divided avenue.  An ambulance started approaching from behind me.  I had to decide:  (a) Start driving when my light turned green, and pull over to the far right, or (b) stay put, even though I wasn't over to the far right.  I made the decision that staying put was better.  It ended up not mattering because, meanwhile, the ambulance decided it would be better to just cut over to the left of the median at an intersection, and bypass our side altogether.  Oncoming vehicles weren't expecting to have to stop, since there was a raised median, and there was nearly a head-on collision.

[1995hoo]

Sticking your middle finger up is not a proper hand signal.

I rather prefer that to the current fad in the DC area of shining your high beams at people when you don't like their driving. (Although since my rearview mirror is auto-dimming, I shrug that off most of the time too.)

[roadman65]

Sticking your middle finger up is not a proper hand signal.

I am hoping that is the exception over the norm in your area.  I would hate to drive someplace or somewhere and have the "finger" raised everyplace I go.

Not saying that it never happens here, of course  only once in a while you will get that one person who does not like you honking your horn  at them when they drift off at a green signal, or that one raged individual who does not like your driving that I have experienced in my daily travels.