Florida: Vertically-oriented street name signs on signal pole

[Brian556]

http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ll=29.298956,-81.084638&spn=0.000019,0.012531&t=h&z=17&layer=c&cbll=29.299073,-81.08485&panoid=p_yqGNw3nxdgG5a8i-2alQ&cbp=12,335.19,,0,0

Has anybody heard any reasoning for this?

[NE2]

They won't blow away in the wind?

[Brian556]

Yeah, my thought was that it was in case a hurricane broke off he mast arm.

NE2, you live in FL, do hurricanes typically break off the mast arm or topple the whole thing?

[NE2]

I live in Orlando. We had one decent-sized hurricane here in the last 10 years, and I don't remember what if anything happened to the traffic lights.

[realjd]

We have those on every traffic light intersection in Palm Bay. They're put there so EMS folks still have road signs during hurricanes when the other signs have blown down. It's the same reason Florida painted exit numbers onto the shoulders of freeways right before the exit.

[roadman65]

I have seen them in Seminole County along US 17 & 92.  I thought they look neat.  If it is do the EMS, its a great idea.  I also heard that the reason why the Panhandle and South Florida have gone horizontal is for the hurricane issue.  Having a streamline signal head  along with the pole gives less resistance in high wind velocities.   However, FDOT will not mandate it to become the norm throughout the state, although there is talk of many county road agencies wanting FDOT to make it at least like California, Illinois, or New Jersey where mast arms are the norm in signal installations.  We still get a lot of the span wires with the Florida signature concrete strain poles still being installed as new or even span wires with metal poles if the person flipping the bill wants to pay for it, especially in Lake County where for some reason officials there do not want the mast arms at all as it would appear.

[formulanone]

I've never seen that stole style of signage before, and I've never heard of a mastarm toppling in s hurricane, either. Mastarms seemed to become more popular options after Hurricane Andrew tore up southern Dade County. New wire span installations are almost unheard of, the last one I recall was in 1998.

[brownpelican]

I think the vertical signs are a great idea also. The mastarms are becoming more prevalent here in Louisiana and I don't remember any of them being toppled also.

[xcellntbuy]

Mast arms for traffic signals were almost exclusive to Miami-Dade County when I moved to south Florida 15-1/2 years ago.  I would imagine Monroe County (Florida Keys) has similar installations, but I cannot verify.

Span wire systems were used at 95% or more at intersections in Broward County in 2005.  Broward County had begun to replace span wires with large black or silver mast arms on critical roads, usually of the 6-lane variety.  These new mast arm installations have continued to be installed at a slightly quicker pace since the damage of Hurricane Wilma on October 24, 2005.

Hurricane Wilma's extensive damage to Broward County's signals on span wires was devastating.  Piles and piles of broken traffic lights were everywhere.  Enter intersections had not a single surviving traffic signal.   There were a few existing mast arms in Broward County that the mast arm bent downward after the Hurricane, but these were older installations of less substantial in size and thickness.  I had noticed a pair of bent mast arms in North Lauderdale, for example. 

[Brandon]

Reminds me of ones I've seen on the Kennedy Expressway (I-90/94) in Chicago:
http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ll=41.915579,-87.667787&spn=0.004319,0.004823&t=h&z=18&layer=c&cbll=41.915362,-87.667622&panoid=DUCK-1SUOfpooXcxvp9RIA&cbp=12,354.36,,2,-0.55

[Brian556]

When I first started visiting FL in the early 90's, it baffled my that they used span wire installations in a hurricane-prone area. Especially since in my home state of Texas they had signals on mast arms with horizontal heads, which is so much more wind-resistant.

Just food for thought..If they are doing this for signalized intersections, will they install the old style concrete monument stye at non-signalized intersections in case the pole-mounted signs blow away?

[roadman65]

I've never seen that stole style of signage before, and I've never heard of a mastarm toppling in s hurricane, either. Mastarms seemed to become more popular options after Hurricane Andrew tore up southern Dade County. New wire span installations are almost unheard of, the last one I recall was in 1998.

In Charley back in 04, some mast arms were turned around, but none toppled over.  Many span wires were blown apart completely, so it shows that the former are better.  At least engineers have to do is turn the arm back into place where the wire assembly has to be re-wired and new signal heads attached.

The "X" span wire in some places were done to prevent that.  A friend of mine used to work for Orange County, FL and he told me that was a way to keep the wires from swaying in high winds as each cable would prevent the other from moving.

However, Miami- Dade (or when it was just Dade) County did start the horizontal mounts on mast arms in the early 90's and Andrew proved them useful.  Back in that fatal storm, the streamlined mast arms held up better than the span wire signals, according to someone who responded to a snail mail I once sent years ago.   I never visited it post Andrew, but seen the later results in the mid 90s when I seen many intersections getting the horizontal signal heads on metal mast arms.   

I could speculate that FDOT has not made it mandatory for new signals in Florida to be all mast arms is that there are some counties in this state that have late tradionalists and early baby boomers who do not want to see old Florida customs go, but that is all it would be.   I only imply it because Lake County is one that has very few mast arms and many signals installed in the 2000's that are span wires, and the fact that Lake County is one of the last counties in the state (other than dry counties) to have strict liquor laws, that would tend to be the modus operandi of some fuddy duddys.  Also, my friend in Orange County Traffic Engineering states that you cannot use mast arms at large intersections, which we all know is false because NJ, IL, CA, NV, and PA have plenty of mast arms on wide intersections.  However, if he is ignorant to believe it, then maybe FDOT could believe that one and is why they will not budge on this.

[DSS5]

Reminds me of ones I've seen on the Kennedy Expressway (I-90/94) in Chicago:
http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ll=41.915579,-87.667787&spn=0.004319,0.004823&t=h&z=18&layer=c&cbll=41.915362,-87.667622&panoid=DUCK-1SUOfpooXcxvp9RIA&cbp=12,354.36,,2,-0.55

Perhaps the reasoning is similar but with blizzards in mind.

[roadman65]

It might be the space limitations as those signs do not stick out, but yet effective I must say.

[UptownRoadGeek]

These vertical signs have started appearing around suburban New Orleans, I can only assume that it's used to help navigate after a hurricane as others have stated above.