Dollar Stores may be harmful

[kalvado]

I know that you strenuously maintain that you aren't racist, but in posts like this one, it doesn't really come through.

Since I never mentioned race at all,

You didn't have to.

You're a smart guy, most often the smartest in the room. But if I had to guess, the rooms you frequent are filled with idiots, and as a result, you seem blind to the idea that not everyone is so easy to fool.

Is it just me who thinks that it is  those who  assume certain race when personal wealth or social status are discussed are the most racist ones around?

[hotdogPi]

SP Cook probably wasn't thinking about race at all, and neither was hbelkins; both are from rural areas that are overwhelmingly white, and they were speaking from personal experience. However, the idea that poor people are poor because they made bad decisions is incorrect, as is the idea that they're obese because they're too lazy.

If someone from Alabama or Mississippi made the same comment, I would think differently. (This doesn't apply in most cases, but since personal experiences are involved here, it does here.)

[webny99]

SP Cook probably wasn't thinking about race at all, and neither was hbelkins; both are from rural areas that are overwhelmingly white, and they were speaking from personal experience.

That was my take as well.

However, the idea that poor people are poor because they made bad decisions is incorrect,

Context is very important, but I tend to disagree. It could be a lack of decisiveness (i.e., not making any decisions at all, resulting in no change in circumstances), as opposed to actively making bad decisions. But I firmly believe that anybody that is motivated to do so, can improve their situation to the point of being above the poverty line and living comfortably, at a minimum.

If you're poor at 20, I don't automatically assume you made bad decisions. Maybe you were born into a poor family and haven't had much opportunity yet. But if you're poor at 50 or 60, absolutely goes without saying that you are responsible for your situation, and could have improved it if you were motivated or cared enough to do something about it.

I have seen poverty in both the inner city and rural areas, and I believe the above applies equally to everyone, regardless of their race or where they're from or any other such factor.

[Brandon]

But if you're poor at 50 or 60, absolutely goes without saying that you are responsible for your situation, and could have improved it if you were motivated or cared enough to do something about it.

Although, that may not be the case at all.  One may be poor from what life threw at one.  One who is poor at 50 or 60 may have medical debt up to his/her eyeballs (or higher) for something completely out of his/her own control (genetics, an accident, etc.).  He/she may have gone through a divorce where the spouse took damn near everything, and the lawyers took what was left.

[tradephoric]

This is yet another variation on the "food desert' theme that has been flowing through the far left for about a decade.  Faced with the reality that people on food stamps are six times more likely to be morbidly obese than 10 pounds underweight, the far lefts would have to reexamine their basic beliefs, or come up with some idiotic theory to explain this fact.  As usual, they chose the later.  Food stampers are somehow trapped in unseen communities where the "healthy food" they want is somehow unavailable.  Of course, the reverse is true.  People that make ignorant economic decisions and end up on food stamps, and people that are just so fundamentally lazy that they refuse to work in a society that has a labor shortage and end up on food stamps, are exactly the same people that make bad food decisions.  It is part of their defective personality makeup.

I know that you strenuously maintain that you aren't racist, but in posts like this one, it doesn't really come through.

This weekend i was hanging out with a white girl who grew up in the food deserts of inner city Detroit.  Everything discussed by SP Cook applies to my white friend as much as it does to a black person living in the inner city.  Yet CtrlAltDel finds the need to imply that Cook's post was racist?  It's really ridiculous. 

[hbelkins]

I can't think of a county seat in rural Kentucky that doesn't have at least one full-service grocery store. Even tiny towns like Booneville, Sandy Hook, Frenchburg, Campton, and my hometown of Beattyville have at least one store that sells fresh produce and meats. Many have two or more such stores. A number of non county-seat towns also have grocery stores. Most counties have farmers markets that sell fresh produce during the growing and harvest season, and are set up to take SNAP cards. Yet many SNAP recipients are overweight despite the availability of "healthy food." It's not due to these places being a "food desert."

[hotdogPi]

Yet many SNAP recipients are overweight despite the availability of "healthy food." It's not due to these places being a "food desert."

It's because they can't afford healthier food, not because the stores don't stock it.

[hbelkins]

Yet many SNAP recipients are overweight despite the availability of "healthy food." It's not due to these places being a "food desert."

It's because they can't afford healthier food, not because the stores don't stock it.

If they're on SNAP, they can afford it. We have a terrible problem in our area of people using their food stamps to buy outlandish quantities of soft drinks with their SNAP cards, then reselling the pop for cash to support their drug habits.

[Brandon]

Yet many SNAP recipients are overweight despite the availability of "healthy food." It's not due to these places being a "food desert."

It's because they can't afford healthier food, not because the stores don't stock it.

Healthy food isn't all that pricey.  You're more likely to find cheaper food in the produce section than in the processed food aisles.  For the same price, I can buy either a can of Pringles or a pound of onions and a pound of carrots.  It isn't because the healthy stuff is pricey, it's either because it isn't there, or the people who are buying choose the unhealthy stuff over the healthy stuff.

[Life in Paradise]

There are always choices that each one of us make.  If you are looking for "organic", more than likely (not always), you are going to pay a premium dollar for that item and the benefit may be minimal.  Do you by vegetables and no skin chicken breasts or frozen dinners and prepared fried chicken from the deli or freezer?  Sometimes it's education that fails people in their choices, otherwise, it just may be their desire to have something that in large quantities just isn't good for them.  That's not necessarily a high or low income thing.

[jeffandnicole]

Yet many SNAP recipients are overweight despite the availability of "healthy food." It's not due to these places being a "food desert."

It's because they can't afford healthier food, not because the stores don't stock it.

Healthy food isn't all that pricey.  You're more likely to find cheaper food in the produce section than in the processed food aisles.  For the same price, I can buy either a can of Pringles or a pound of onions and a pound of carrots.  It isn't because the healthy stuff is pricey, it's either because it isn't there, or the people who are buying choose the unhealthy stuff over the healthy stuff.

Kids go crazy when parents try offering them onions for snacks.  They can't get enough of them!

But to your point, comparably priced healthy snacks do exist, although it does depend on the season.  And there's a slight convenience factor as well.  Someone can give a group of kids a can of Pringles to snack on, or a bag of apples.  The chips are much easier to deal with on the run, compared to fruit.  If they're committed to eating healthy, no problem.  Are chips fine for most kids?  Of course...in moderation.

[tradephoric]

This conversation is reminding me of the "twinkie diet".  For 10 weeks a nutritionist from Kansas State University ate a diet comprising of mostly twinkies, Hostess and Little Debbie snacks, Doritos chips, sugary cereals and Oreos.  Even though he ate poorly he would limit his daily caloric intake to 1,800 calories.  After 10 weeks he shed 27 pounds down to 174 lbs, his body fat dropped from 33.4 to 24.9 percent, his "bad" LDL cholesterol dropped 20 percent while his "good" HDL cholesterol increased by 20 percent.

Twinkie diet helps nutrition professor lose 27 pounds
http://www.cnn.com/2010/HEALTH/11/08/twinkie.diet.professor/index.html

Of course it's probably incredibly hard to eat just 1800 calories when you are eating caloric dense foods like Little Debbie cupcakes.  Anybody who is really living off this stuff is likely to have a little bit of a weight problem.

[kphoger]

Healthy food isn't all that pricey.  You're more likely to find cheaper food in the produce section than in the processed food aisles.  For the same price, I can buy either a can of Pringles or a pound of onions and a pound of carrots.  It isn't because the healthy stuff is pricey, it's either because it isn't there, or the people who are buying choose the unhealthy stuff over the healthy stuff.

Which costs more?  92% lean ground beef or 80% lean ground beef?
Which costs more?  Lays classic potato chips or baked whole-grain crisps?
Which costs more?  Wonder bread or sprouted wheat bread?
Which costs more?  Feeding a family of six on ground beef tacos and Sunny D or on a balanced meal?

Yes, it's possible to make a healthy meal for little money.  But, chances are, that meal will require more know-how in the kitchen, call for ingredients that are more likely to spoil, and in the end won't be as filling.



For what it's worth, I make more than $13 an hour, and my wife works full-time (self-employed) from home.  I live in a single-family home (rented), own our own vehicle, take vacations, etc.  We live in a decent neighborhood.  I do not consider my family to be poor.  Yet, with three kids at home, we qualify for food stamps.  I personally don't appreciate people equating food stamps with poverty or bad life decisions.

[kalvado]

Coming back to dollar stores. THat's where we started...
Is it fair to say that not carrying "good" food is primarily due to lack of demand?

[Brandon]

Coming back to dollar stores. THat's where we started...
Is it fair to say that not carrying "good" food is primarily due to lack of demand?

I'm not too sure.  The modern dollar store is pretty much an update of the five and dime of the past, and they did not carry much in the way of "good" food either.  How much grocery did Kresge or Woolworth carry?  I don't think it was much different than Family Dollar or Dollar General.

[SectorZ]

I know that you strenuously maintain that you aren't racist, but in posts like this one, it doesn't really come through.

Since I never mentioned race at all,

You didn't have to.

You're a smart guy, most often the smartest in the room. But if I had to guess, the rooms you frequent are filled with idiots, and as a result, you seem blind to the idea that not everyone is so easy to fool.

Dude, I'm in a state with many immigrants and I can tell you the ones leeching off the SNAP system while very obese are in fact just as white as I am. You don't even need to be in a totally white place for this to be like this. Stop seeing racism in everything.

[SectorZ]

Healthy food isn't all that pricey.  You're more likely to find cheaper food in the produce section than in the processed food aisles.  For the same price, I can buy either a can of Pringles or a pound of onions and a pound of carrots.  It isn't because the healthy stuff is pricey, it's either because it isn't there, or the people who are buying choose the unhealthy stuff over the healthy stuff.

Which costs more?  92% lean ground beef or 80% lean ground beef?
Which costs more?  Lays classic potato chips or baked whole-grain crisps?
Which costs more?  Wonder bread or sprouted wheat bread?
Which costs more?  Feeding a family of six on ground beef tacos and Sunny D or on a balanced meal?

Yes, it's possible to make a healthy meal for little money.  But, chances are, that meal will require more know-how in the kitchen, call for ingredients that are more likely to spoil, and in the end won't be as filling.



For what it's worth, I make more than $13 an hour, and my wife works full-time (self-employed) from home.  I live in a single-family home (rented), own our own vehicle, take vacations, etc.  We live in a decent neighborhood.  I do not consider my family to be poor.  Yet, with three kids at home, we qualify for food stamps.  I personally don't appreciate people equating food stamps with poverty or bad life decisions.

The problem is you can qualify in the midwest, but meanwhile your income is poor in San Fran, Boston, Seattle, etc. Like minimum wage, these things should be qualified by region, not the same nationally.

[SP Cook]

Stop seeing racism in everything.

True.  But, the easy memes of the far left such as "racist" = "people who say things I disagree with, but cannot refute" are far easier than having legitimate answers to legitimate problems. 

It is sad, really.

[tolbs17]

If you go to Dollar Tree to buy drinks, you get a better deal at Walmart or Target. You can buy like 4 for $2 rather than going to the dollar store to pay $4 for 4 drinks.