Service plazas on turnpikes/thruways/toll roads

[Joe The Dragon]

did the old skyway mcdonalds let you do an u-turn for free?

[Joe The Dragon]

Regarding Pennsylvania, I've always assumed that accessing a service plaza via the service/employee entrance wasn't illegal per se, even if the practice wasn't officially condoned by the PTC. At the very least, even if doing so was technically prohibited, I doubt you'd be cited by the state police unless you made a major nuisance of yourself (like harassing plaza employees, blocking driveways/gates, or attempting to illegally enter the Turnpike). I've accessed various service plazas via the service entrance over the years, and I've never been stopped or questioned, even when state troopers were nearby.

My impression of the PTC's permissive attitude was formed in significant part by the signage posted at the service entrance of the Allentown plaza when I lived in the Lehigh Valley around 2003-2004. At that time, the service driveway entrance at Cetronia Road was posted with a billboard-sized sign bearing the logos of the restaurants at the plaza (which at the time included Bob's Big Boy, Roy Rogers, and a few others) and an arrow pointing down the driveway. So I assumed the plaza operator was trying to attract some local business. And as I recall, I didn't encounter any "Employees Only"  or similar prohibitive signage. In fact, I seem to remember that the employee parking area was posted with something like "Limit 1 Hour Except Employees" –essentially admitting that non-employees (i.e. plaza visitors) were allowed to park there.

When the plaza was completely rebuilt a few years later, the sign was replaced to reflect the logos of the updated plaza restaurant lineup. (Hopefully this 2008 Street View link works: https://goo.gl/maps/QuUhzs469GhGpEK89) By 2011, that sign had a "Delivery/Employee Entrance"  panel appended beneath–perhaps suggesting that this plaza driveway was somewhat less than completely open to the public. (https://goo.gl/maps/Pyf544f6NvDMsRVY7) Then last year, the main sign with restaurant logos was removed, leaving only the "Delivery/Employee Entrance"  panel. And the PTC had also installed a freestanding "Private Roadway"  regulatory sign which is their standard practice at maintenance access points and the like. (https://goo.gl/maps/vUjjiri9JqKiZnSG8)

I'm curious as to what prompted this change. Clearly, incremental actions have been taken in the past nine years, but I have a tough time imagining what could have happened to prompt the gradually stricter stance. Still, I'd have no qualms about visiting a service plaza (as a pedestrian) via the service entrance.

Wescosville Substation access is also part of that road

[TheOneKEA]

The MDTA's renovations of Maryland House and Chesapeake House have certainly improved the layout and flexibility of each site, but the charm of the original buildings made them somewhat noteworthy to visit prior to the renovations. I wonder how much revenue they return to the MDTA, especially for gas and diesel purchases, and if they attract any significant amount of true long-distance traffic versus opportunistic locals commuting to/from Baltimore.

[cpzilliacus]

The MDTA's renovations of Maryland House and Chesapeake House have certainly improved the layout and flexibility of each site, but the charm of the original buildings made them somewhat noteworthy to visit prior to the renovations. I wonder how much revenue they return to the MDTA, especially for gas and diesel purchases, and if they attract any significant amount of true long-distance traffic versus opportunistic locals commuting to/from Baltimore.

We stopped at the Chesapeake House service plaza in Cecil County yesterday and I glanced at some of the registration plates there - plenty of non-Maryland east coast tags, including New Jersey, Pennsylvania, New York, Virginia, D.C. and North Carolina.

[SP Cook]

WV Turnpike.  Three service areas, the north most and south most reachable only northbound (there is a smaller, improvised one for southbound parallel to the north most one.  The central one (Tamarack) is reachable from either direction.

This is because the road used to be two lane and it just worked out that way, more than anything.  While the areas were completely gutted and rebuilt, they never did a ramp to allow access for the other side.  Back in the day when it was two lane, and the road was on the "closed"  ticket system, the restaurants were the "Glass House"  which was table service, and you could, at least at Beckley, go there and then return to the exit with a receipt and pay no toll.

The three rest areas are pretty similar.  Exxon, with a "food court"  consisting of the typical fast food.  The central one, at Beckley, adds a truck stop with a large truck parking lot, showers, and like that (BTW, big prostitution sting there a couple of years ago).  And then the money pit that is Tamarack, which, as HB notes, can be accessed from a back entrance.  Tamarack is a store selling faux hill folk brick brack.  Bleeds $$.   

There has been talk of shuttering the south most one.  Since the turnpike does not charge a "side toll"  (you can use any of the exits, save one, without charge, just like a normal interstate), and the road is only 88 miles long, there is little need for service areas in the first place, and the south most one is just a few miles north of Princeton, which has plenty of services, and less than 40 from Wytheville, VA, which has far more (and lower Virginia fuel taxes to boot) it really does not make enough to even pay the staff.

[PHLBOS]

And the PTC had also installed a freestanding "Private Roadway"  regulatory sign which is their standard practice at maintenance access points and the like. (https://goo.gl/maps/vUjjiri9JqKiZnSG8)

Similar was done with respect to the eastbound Valley Forge Service Plaza access road to/from PA 252.

I''m curious as to what prompted this change. Clearly, incremental actions have been taken in the past nine years, but I have a tough time imagining what could have happened to prompt the gradually stricter stance. Still, I'd have no qualms about visiting a service plaza (as a pedestrian) via the service entrance.

Speculation on my part but it's possible that such may have been used for one or a combination of the following:

1.  A potential escape/shunpike route; especially given the annual Act 44-related toll increases.

2.  Such was becoming a potential hang-out for either gang-related and/or illegal/illicit activity.

3.  Similar to 1 & 2 as it relates to if a robbery took place at one of those service plaza stores; those driveways would serve as a perfect escape route.

[jeffandnicole]

Regarding Pennsylvania, I've always assumed that accessing a service plaza via the service/employee entrance wasn't illegal per se, even if the practice wasn't officially condoned by the PTC. At the very least, even if doing so was technically prohibited, I doubt you'd be cited by the state police unless you made a major nuisance of yourself (like harassing plaza employees, blocking driveways/gates, or attempting to illegally enter the Turnpike). I've accessed various service plazas via the service entrance over the years, and I've never been stopped or questioned, even when state troopers were nearby.

My impression of the PTC's permissive attitude was formed in significant part by the signage posted at the service entrance of the Allentown plaza when I lived in the Lehigh Valley around 2003-2004. At that time, the service driveway entrance at Cetronia Road was posted with a billboard-sized sign bearing the logos of the restaurants at the plaza (which at the time included Bob's Big Boy, Roy Rogers, and a few others) and an arrow pointing down the driveway. So I assumed the plaza operator was trying to attract some local business. And as I recall, I didn't encounter any "Employees Only"  or similar prohibitive signage. In fact, I seem to remember that the employee parking area was posted with something like "Limit 1 Hour Except Employees" –essentially admitting that non-employees (i.e. plaza visitors) were allowed to park there.

When the plaza was completely rebuilt a few years later, the sign was replaced to reflect the logos of the updated plaza restaurant lineup. (Hopefully this 2008 Street View link works: https://goo.gl/maps/QuUhzs469GhGpEK89) By 2011, that sign had a "Delivery/Employee Entrance"  panel appended beneath–perhaps suggesting that this plaza driveway was somewhat less than completely open to the public. (https://goo.gl/maps/Pyf544f6NvDMsRVY7) Then last year, the main sign with restaurant logos was removed, leaving only the "Delivery/Employee Entrance"  panel. And the PTC had also installed a freestanding "Private Roadway"  regulatory sign which is their standard practice at maintenance access points and the like. (https://goo.gl/maps/vUjjiri9JqKiZnSG8)

I'm curious as to what prompted this change. Clearly, incremental actions have been taken in the past nine years, but I have a tough time imagining what could have happened to prompt the gradually stricter stance. Still, I'd have no qualms about visiting a service plaza (as a pedestrian) via the service entrance.

How would the State Police be able to tell who you are, compared to any other employee in the travel plaza? 

The difference between then and now:  Maybe there wasn't anything that happened in PA per se, but elsewhere around the country.  And even if it happened in PA, often times unless its major, it's not going to make the news.  While signs aren't going to stop someone from doing what you're doing, but it gives the State Police a lot more authority to stop and detain someone like you to determine why you are visiting service areas.  From an employee/State Police point of view, it probably is quite abnormal.  If the PA Turnpike's Board Minutes are available online, they will be worth reading to possibly get an understanding of their more restrictive approach.

[Buck87]

And then the money pit that is Tamarack, which, as HB notes, can be accessed from a back entrance.  Tamarack is a store selling faux hill folk brick brack.  Bleeds $$.

Where does the name "Tamarack" come from anyway?

[CtrlAltDel]

And then the money pit that is Tamarack, which, as HB notes, can be accessed from a back entrance.  Tamarack is a store selling faux hill folk brick brack.  Bleeds $$.

Where does the name "Tamarack" come from anyway?

It's a tree that grows in the local area.

[kennyshark]

Just a theory...

Anyone think the Indiana Toll Road service plazas might be better quality if it was still under state control rather than publicly-owned?

[D-Dey65]

The MDTA's renovations of Maryland House and Chesapeake House have certainly improved the layout and flexibility of each site, but the charm of the original buildings made them somewhat noteworthy to visit prior to the renovations. I wonder how much revenue they return to the MDTA, especially for gas and diesel purchases, and if they attract any significant amount of true long-distance traffic versus opportunistic locals commuting to/from Baltimore.

I've stopped at both in spite of the renovations. But I agree that the charm of the original service areas has been lost. The newer version of the Maryland House makes a bad attempt to pretend to have those same features of the old one. Nevertheless drivers from all over the country do stop there for the same reasons that they did before, with the exception of car repairs. I just wish there was some old pictures of Delaware House around.

[SP Cook]

Actually, a Tamarack is a larch tree, native to most of Canada and the extreme northern edge of the USA.  It is not native to WV at all, with the exception of the Cranesville Swamp, which is on the WV-MD border, hundreds of miles from Beckley.  The swamp, is described as a "boreal bog"  and a "frost pocket"  which due to being in a deep valley at a high elevation it has a micro-climate that is like places about 800 miles further north, and is populated with species generally found in Canada. 

The use of "Tamarack"  for the place was done by the same out-of-state consultants who thought up the whole bad idea.  It kind of underlines the faux nature of everything about the place.

[roadman]

Actually, a Tamarack is a larch tree, native to most of Canada and the extreme northern edge of the USA.  It is not native to WV at all, with the exception of the Cranesville Swamp, which is on the WV-MD border, hundreds of miles from Beckley.  The swamp, is described as a “boreal bog” and a “frost pocket” which due to being in a deep valley at a high elevation it has a micro-climate that is like places about 800 miles further north, and is populated with species generally found in Canada. 

The use of “Tamarack” for the place was done by the same out-of-state consultants who thought up the whole bad idea.  It kind of underlines the faux nature of everything about the place.

Number One:  The Larch.  The Larch.

And now, Number One:  The Larch.  The Larch.

[hbelkins]

WV Turnpike.  Three service areas, the north most and south most reachable only northbound (there is a smaller, improvised one for southbound parallel to the north most one.  The central one (Tamarack) is reachable from either direction.

This is because the road used to be two lane and it just worked out that way, more than anything.  While the areas were completely gutted and rebuilt, they never did a ramp to allow access for the other side.  Back in the day when it was two lane, and the road was on the "closed"  ticket system, the restaurants were the "Glass House"  which was table service, and you could, at least at Beckley, go there and then return to the exit with a receipt and pay no toll.

The three rest areas are pretty similar.  Exxon, with a "food court"  consisting of the typical fast food.  The central one, at Beckley, adds a truck stop with a large truck parking lot, showers, and like that (BTW, big prostitution sting there a couple of years ago).  And then the money pit that is Tamarack, which, as HB notes, can be accessed from a back entrance.  Tamarack is a store selling faux hill folk brick brack.  Bleeds $$.   

There has been talk of shuttering the south most one.  Since the turnpike does not charge a "side toll"  (you can use any of the exits, save one, without charge, just like a normal interstate), and the road is only 88 miles long, there is little need for service areas in the first place, and the south most one is just a few miles north of Princeton, which has plenty of services, and less than 40 from Wytheville, VA, which has far more (and lower Virginia fuel taxes to boot) it really does not make enough to even pay the staff.

If I'm not mistaken, it's possible to access the northernmost travel plaza from the little county road that runs parallel to the turnpike in that area. Not sure about the southernmost one.

I can't think there's really that much need for the northernmost plaza, although the parking lot seems full every time I have passed by there. You're not that far from either Beckley or the Kanawha City/Chesapeake area with all the restaurants and gas stations there. A standard rest area would probably be sufficient.

[jeffandnicole]

WV Turnpike.  Three service areas, the north most and south most reachable only northbound (there is a smaller, improvised one for southbound parallel to the north most one.  The central one (Tamarack) is reachable from either direction.

This is because the road used to be two lane and it just worked out that way, more than anything.  While the areas were completely gutted and rebuilt, they never did a ramp to allow access for the other side.  Back in the day when it was two lane, and the road was on the "closed"  ticket system, the restaurants were the "Glass House"  which was table service, and you could, at least at Beckley, go there and then return to the exit with a receipt and pay no toll.

The three rest areas are pretty similar.  Exxon, with a "food court"  consisting of the typical fast food.  The central one, at Beckley, adds a truck stop with a large truck parking lot, showers, and like that (BTW, big prostitution sting there a couple of years ago).  And then the money pit that is Tamarack, which, as HB notes, can be accessed from a back entrance.  Tamarack is a store selling faux hill folk brick brack.  Bleeds $$.   

There has been talk of shuttering the south most one.  Since the turnpike does not charge a "side toll"  (you can use any of the exits, save one, without charge, just like a normal interstate), and the road is only 88 miles long, there is little need for service areas in the first place, and the south most one is just a few miles north of Princeton, which has plenty of services, and less than 40 from Wytheville, VA, which has far more (and lower Virginia fuel taxes to boot) it really does not make enough to even pay the staff.

If I'm not mistaken, it's possible to access the northernmost travel plaza from the little county road that runs parallel to the turnpike in that area. Not sure about the southernmost one.

I can't think there's really that much need for the northernmost plaza, although the parking lot seems full every time I have passed by there. You're not that far from either Beckley or the Kanawha City/Chesapeake area with all the restaurants and gas stations there. A standard rest area would probably be sufficient.

Because motorists like convenience.  If the parking lot was mostly empty,  a rest area would be fine. But if it's full, it's probably making money. And why take away something that motorists find useful?

[cpzilliacus]

The MDTA's renovations of Maryland House and Chesapeake House have certainly improved the layout and flexibility of each site, but the charm of the original buildings made them somewhat noteworthy to visit prior to the renovations. I wonder how much revenue they return to the MDTA, especially for gas and diesel purchases, and if they attract any significant amount of true long-distance traffic versus opportunistic locals commuting to/from Baltimore.

Maryland House has traditionally been one of the most profitable turnpike service plazas in the United States, since there are none on I-95 south of there.   

Note that there was once a place advertised as a service plaza on I-95 in Baltimore City, signed on I-95 as "Baltimore Travel Plaza," but it lacked direct ramps to and from I-95 and I-895 (and had no access from southbound 895) on O'Donnell Street Cut-Off and I think once had some sort of connection to the municipal government of Baltimore City and is now a T/A truck stop. I have not been there in many years (and not since T/A took it over), for the place was dirty and run-down and the fuel dispensers did not work well.

Regarding Chesapeake House especially, the old building (built about 1975, 12 years after Maryland House) was in very poor condition and needed to be torn down and replaced. 

[Brandon]

Just a theory...

Anyone think the Indiana Toll Road service plazas might be better quality if it was still under state control rather than publicly-owned?

They were shitty back then.  Even the new ones are an improvement.

[GCrites]

WV Turnpike.  Three service areas, the north most and south most reachable only northbound (there is a smaller, improvised one for southbound parallel to the north most one.  The central one (Tamarack) is reachable from either direction.

This is because the road used to be two lane and it just worked out that way, more than anything.  While the areas were completely gutted and rebuilt, they never did a ramp to allow access for the other side.  Back in the day when it was two lane, and the road was on the "closed"  ticket system, the restaurants were the "Glass House"  which was table service, and you could, at least at Beckley, go there and then return to the exit with a receipt and pay no toll.

The three rest areas are pretty similar.  Exxon, with a "food court"  consisting of the typical fast food.  The central one, at Beckley, adds a truck stop with a large truck parking lot, showers, and like that (BTW, big prostitution sting there a couple of years ago).  And then the money pit that is Tamarack, which, as HB notes, can be accessed from a back entrance.  Tamarack is a store selling faux hill folk brick brack.  Bleeds $$.   

There has been talk of shuttering the south most one.  Since the turnpike does not charge a "side toll"  (you can use any of the exits, save one, without charge, just like a normal interstate), and the road is only 88 miles long, there is little need for service areas in the first place, and the south most one is just a few miles north of Princeton, which has plenty of services, and less than 40 from Wytheville, VA, which has far more (and lower Virginia fuel taxes to boot) it really does not make enough to even pay the staff.

If I'm not mistaken, it's possible to access the northernmost travel plaza from the little county road that runs parallel to the turnpike in that area. Not sure about the southernmost one.

I can't think there's really that much need for the northernmost plaza, although the parking lot seems full every time I have passed by there. You're not that far from either Beckley or the Kanawha City/Chesapeake area with all the restaurants and gas stations there. A standard rest area would probably be sufficient.

Back in the '80s and before traveling the full length of the WV Turnpike was much more of an odyssey between the 55mph speed limit, two-lane sections and automobiles that were much more tiring to drive. For truckers though, the Turnpike and I-77 in general is more of a challenge than other interstates even today.

[lepidopteran]

Among the notable service plazas.

On the New York State Thruway:
Angola.  This one is in the median, but the exit ramps and the parking is on the right hand side.  To get to the plaza building, you have to take an overhead crosswalk over the highway lanes.  There is also a gas station on each side after the parking area.

Sloatsburg.  On the northbound side, it is the first plaza on the Thruway west of the Hudson River, and is the only plaza I've ever seen with its own parking garage!  This makes sense for two reasons (1) no room to expand due to being hemmed in by mountains, and (2) it's a popular stop, since it's the first plaza encountered after getting out of the New York City metro area, by which time the "we have to go to the bathroom"s begin.  Indeed, that second point actually precedes the construction of the Thruway; the parallel "old route", NY-17, had a popular stop called the "Red Apple Rest" right around the same point.  Last I heard it's still standing, but has been abandoned for a while.

Ramapo.  On the southbound side across from Sloatsburg.  Originally, there was only a parking lot here; customers had to walk across an overhead crosswalk to get to the Sloatsburg plaza.  But services were eventually added to the southbound side.  Not sure if or when the Ramapo name was added later.  The bridge is still intact, BTW, but it appears to be fenced off.

[lstone19]

Among the notable service plazas.

On the New York State Thruway:
Ramapo.  On the southbound side across from Sloatsburg.  Originally, there was only a parking lot here; customers had to walk across an overhead crosswalk to get to the Sloatsburg plaza.  But services were eventually added to the southbound side.  Not sure if or when the Ramapo name was added later.  The bridge is still intact, BTW, but it appears to be fenced off.

As a frequent passenger in my parent's car in the early 1970s, I believe the SB plaza was always Ramapo.

[theline]

did the old skyway mcdonalds let you do an u-turn for free?

Yes. It even had a single drive-through that was available for traffic from both directions, if I remember correctly. Since the the restaurant was to the southeast of the toll barrier one could conceivably drive from Indiana to get a Big Mac fix and return home without paying a toll, though I have no idea why they would. There are more conveniently-located Golden Arches at 106th and State Line Rd., which we've been known to visit on our way to The Loop.

Regarding the Indiana Service Plazas, I agree with others that they are miserably cramped. I had high hopes when they were recently rebuilt, but I was badly disappointed. It's impossible to know if they had turned out better if the state still ran the Toll Road. I also agree that Ohio has the best plazas in the Midwest, showing great improvement in resent years. In years gone by, we used to make a point of getting off the Turnpike at Toledo for dinner, but the current selections make exiting unnecessary. Illinois's food selections are a close second to Ohio in my opinion.

Historically, I recall most of the Ohio and Pennsylvania plazas once featured Howard Johnson's cafeterias, but we tried to avoid them. You've never lived until you've sampled the Jell-o cubes that have been out on the cafeteria line all day.

[roadman]

author=theline link=topic=26457.msg2480744#msg2480744 date=1582706282
Historically, I recall most of the Ohio and Pennsylvania plazas once featured Howard Johnson's cafeterias, but we tried to avoid them. You've never lived until you've sampled the Jell-o cubes that have been out on the cafeteria line all day.

Never knew that Howard Johnson's had cafeteria-style restaurants.  As they say, you learn something new every day.  Of course, the McDonalds at the Indiana Toll Road service plazas used to be notorious for making a big batch of sausage biscuits at the start of the breakfast hours and letting them sit under the heat lamps all morning.  Nothing quite like a dried out biscuit, which usually crumbled in a "poof' when you tried to eat it.

[sbeaver44]

Are there service plazas today that have cafeteria-style restaurants?

[Buck87]

-Do you have any interesting anecdotes about any particular plaza?

The last time I ate at a service plaza was the Ohio Turnpike Towpath plaza between I-71 and I-77.

I went up to the combined Pizza Hut and KFC counter, and was served by a guy wearing a Burger King uniform. Thought that was kinda funny. Was tempted to ask him if I could order off the Panera Bread menu and then pick it up over at the Starbucks counter.

[briantroutman]

Never knew that Howard Johnson's had cafeteria-style restaurants.

I'd be interested in learning more about the cafeteria setup as it applied to Howard Johnson's toll road locations. From what I've seen in old photos (like this one showing table service at a Pennsylvania Turnpike location circa the early '60s–by my guess), I'm inclined to believe that the cafeteria setup wasn't entirely universal.

Perhaps the company reserved the cafeteria arrangement for either high-volume locations or locations where the local labor pool made it difficult to maintain adequate staffing–or perhaps a combination of the two factors. Or maybe it was something Howard Johnson's primarily rolled out in later years ('70s/'80s) as traveler preferences shifted toward fast food and the company struggled to maintain profitability.

OrangeRoof.org, the Howard Johnson's history website, mentions that Howard Johnson's won a contract for Connecticut's service plazas in 1975. (I wonder what they were prior; amazing to me that a turnpike in Howard Johnson's backyard didn't have a contract with HoJo from day one.) And the company remodeled the service plazas, implementing a cafeteria-type layout. There's a photo of the cafeteria line on the page linked above. But the timing of the cafeteria implementation in Connecticut (1975) leads me to believe it was something that the company resorted to in its declining years.

Are there service plazas today that have cafeteria-style restaurants?

I don't know about today, but the cafeteria scheme was still in place at a few PA Turnpike locations up until about a decade ago.

When I first encountered the Allentown Service Plaza in the 1990s, the Roy Rogers was set up in a cafeteria arrangement where you'd pick up a tray, pass a line of stainless steel chutes with pre-made sandwiches, pass a warming rack with pre-filled fry boxes, and then come to a cashier at the end who would total your order and give you a drink cup. As I recall, the Roy Rogers at Peter J. Camiel (pre-renovation) was virtually identical. Since their renovations, both have been reconfigured with typical fast food counter service (like all standalone Roy's locations–as far as I know).