Coronavirus pandemic

[webny99]

The Census is not going to be moved, end of discussion.

Rest in peace, poor census takers...

We had a census taker come to our house a couple of months ago.  She came in, asked a whole lot of questions, filled our her forms, all of that jazz.  Now we've been getting reminders in the mail that we're required by law to fill out a census survey.  So what the heck was the census taker doing all that time, then??  Stupid bureaucracy...

Sure that was a census taker?
Usually the first step in the census is people self-submitting their info online or via the phone, and that's going on now. Most field workers wouldn't hit the streets till summer of 2020.
Bad enough you let them in the house. Hopefully you didnt give too much personal information.

Yikes, yeah, I was thinking the exact same thing.
Census Day is tomorrow, so there's no way any census takers would have been in the field before now, much less a few months ago.
This year in particular, between the online option and the coronavirus, there's all the more reason for them to be reducing field work where possible.

https://2020census.gov/en/avoiding-fraud.html

[webny99]

In other news, wait, what?? How did this thread earn a sticky?

[ErmineNotyours]

On the religion topic: Pastor arrested for holding services amid virus outbreak

TAMPA, Fla. (AP) – Florida officials have arrested the pastor of a megachurch after detectives say he held two Sunday services with hundreds of people and violated a safer-at-home order in place to limit the spread of the coronavirus.

According to jail records, Pastor Rodney Howard-Browne turned himself in to authorities Monday afternoon in Hernando County, where he lives. He was charged with unlawful assembly and violation of a public health emergency order. Bail was set at $500, according to the jail's website, and he was released after posting bond. [etc.]

[RobbieL2415]

Reading the order and seeing the statute applied that certainly leaves the door open for people start being questioned about "where they are going and why"  by a police officer under the pretense of "reasonable suspicion." .  Granted I doubt that something like charging people with crimes for things like protests is going to upset many in the general public.  Nonetheless there might be some hidden escalation of how these "stay at home orders"  might be enforced going forward in some states and jurisdictions.

A friend of mine works at Franklin Baking in Goldsboro, NC and he said that the cops were enforcing that order pretty heavily. He already got stopped once, but once he showed them a paper he got from his job, they let him go. Can't speak for other areas of NC, though.

It's also happening in SoCal. They have essentially suspended freedom of movement.

[Max Rockatansky]

Reading the order and seeing the statute applied that certainly leaves the door open for people start being questioned about "where they are going and why"  by a police officer under the pretense of "reasonable suspicion." .  Granted I doubt that something like charging people with crimes for things like protests is going to upset many in the general public.  Nonetheless there might be some hidden escalation of how these "stay at home orders"  might be enforced going forward in some states and jurisdictions.

A friend of mine works at Franklin Baking in Goldsboro, NC and he said that the cops were enforcing that order pretty heavily. He already got stopped once, but once he showed them a paper he got from his job, they let him go. Can't speak for other areas of NC, though.

It's also happening in SoCal. They have essentially suspended freedom of movement.

Is it?...I haven't heard of anything happening in Southern California.

[RobbieL2415]

Reading the order and seeing the statute applied that certainly leaves the door open for people start being questioned about "where they are going and why"  by a police officer under the pretense of "reasonable suspicion." .  Granted I doubt that something like charging people with crimes for things like protests is going to upset many in the general public.  Nonetheless there might be some hidden escalation of how these "stay at home orders"  might be enforced going forward in some states and jurisdictions.

A friend of mine works at Franklin Baking in Goldsboro, NC and he said that the cops were enforcing that order pretty heavily. He already got stopped once, but once he showed them a paper he got from his job, they let him go. Can't speak for other areas of NC, though.

It's also happening in SoCal. They have essentially suspended freedom of movement.

Is it?...I haven't heard of anything happening in Southern California.

Santa Clara County.

[Max Rockatansky]

Reading the order and seeing the statute applied that certainly leaves the door open for people start being questioned about "where they are going and why"  by a police officer under the pretense of "reasonable suspicion." .  Granted I doubt that something like charging people with crimes for things like protests is going to upset many in the general public.  Nonetheless there might be some hidden escalation of how these "stay at home orders"  might be enforced going forward in some states and jurisdictions.

A friend of mine works at Franklin Baking in Goldsboro, NC and he said that the cops were enforcing that order pretty heavily. He already got stopped once, but once he showed them a paper he got from his job, they let him go. Can't speak for other areas of NC, though.

It's also happening in SoCal. They have essentially suspended freedom of movement.

Is it?...I haven't heard of anything happening in Southern California.

Santa Clara County.

Santa Clara County isn't Southern California.  I digress though, what exactly happened?

[Duke87]

Responding to a post from another thread that's more relevant here:

And by the way,

Life expectancy in Italy is 82.54 years.  In the US it's 78.69 years.

The infant mortality rate in Italy is 2.6 deaths per 1000 live births.  In the US it's 5.8 deaths per 1000 live births.

So, I don't think it's fair or accurate to say that Italy has a substandard healthcare system compared to that of the US.  If anything, these important metrics seem to indicate that the US has a substandard health care system to Italy.

It really depends on what you're looking at and why. The United States performs poorly compared to its first world peers on life expectancy and infant mortality, but this isn't because our healthcare system itself is less capable - it's because not everyone has equal access to it. Americans who lack the means to receive proper healthcare drag these metrics down.

Otherwise, Americans who do have access to healthcare enjoy higher standards of it. And fortunately for the purposes of fighting covid, governments have been stepping up and working to eliminate barriers to access for this specifically.

Here's a good sniff test: New York City has a population comparable to but slightly lower than Lombardy (8.4 million vs. 10.1 million). New York City has over 40,000 confirmed cases and is still treating everyone who requires hospitalization. By the time Lombardy got to that many cases, they were already picking and choosing who to attempt to save.

[jakeroot]

Americans who lack the means to receive proper healthcare drag these metrics down.

But isn't that their point? If all Americans had better and equal access to proper healthcare, our metrics might improve.

I don't know if that's actually true, but that seems to be the consensus among countries with socialised medicine: America shoots itself in the foot by providing exceptional healthcare to most, but also then providing very little to those who cannot otherwise afford insurance, or access it through work; the latter group has (presumably) higher rates of infant mortality and lower life expectancies.

[jeffandnicole]

Reading the order and seeing the statute applied that certainly leaves the door open for people start being questioned about "where they are going and why"  by a police officer under the pretense of "reasonable suspicion." .  Granted I doubt that something like charging people with crimes for things like protests is going to upset many in the general public.  Nonetheless there might be some hidden escalation of how these "stay at home orders"  might be enforced going forward in some states and jurisdictions.

A friend of mine works at Franklin Baking in Goldsboro, NC and he said that the cops were enforcing that order pretty heavily. He already got stopped once, but once he showed them a paper he got from his job, they let him go. Can't speak for other areas of NC, though.

It's also happening in SoCal. They have essentially suspended freedom of movement.

Thought-processes like this makes it extremely hard for countries like the US to get pandemics like this under control.  By the summer months we'll be saying "China did a much better job containing the virus to just a few months".  But their people had a better understanding of just staying at home.  The same people complaining here in the US bitch about their Constitutional Rights won't stay the hell home.

[jemacedo9]

Reading the order and seeing the statute applied that certainly leaves the door open for people start being questioned about “where they are going and why” by a police officer under the pretense of “reasonable suspicion.”.  Granted I doubt that something like charging people with crimes for things like protests is going to upset many in the general public.  Nonetheless there might be some hidden escalation of how these “stay at home orders” might be enforced going forward in some states and jurisdictions.

A friend of mine works at Franklin Baking in Goldsboro, NC and he said that the cops were enforcing that order pretty heavily. He already got stopped once, but once he showed them a paper he got from his job, they let him go. Can't speak for other areas of NC, though.

It's also happening in SoCal. They have essentially suspended freedom of movement.

Thought-processes like this makes it extremely hard for countries like the US to get pandemics like this under control.  By the summer months we'll be saying "China did a much better job containing the virus to just a few months".  But their people had a better understanding of just staying at home.  The same people complaining here in the US bitch about their Constitutional Rights won't stay the hell home.

Because some people take "their constitutional right" to mean "I should be able to do whatever I want to regardless of how it may impact my fellow man, and therefore I will" to an entitled extreme. 

[Mapmikey]

A friend of mine works at Franklin Baking in Goldsboro, NC and he said that the cops were enforcing that order pretty heavily. He already got stopped once, but once he showed them a paper he got from his job, they let him go. Can't speak for other areas of NC, though.

Yikes.  I hope NY never goes that far.  I absolutely, positively, can't stand the idea of having to justify myself to authority figures.  It's the reason I've always hated crossing the border.

Ditto. I hope NC law enforcement comes to its senses, and its VA (or DC or MD) counterparts don't follow that bad example. People going to and from work can carry and show their papers. But I can't possibly document my need for non-work local travel, to shop for groceries, or a restaurant to grab some breakfast at its drive-thru, or the post office to pick up mail for a friend who's housebound after leg surgery, or to my friend's house to check in on him and deliver his mail, or my storage unit to retrieve and update an external hard drive as part of replacing my laptop, or to a hardware store to buy a voltmeter, or to an auto parts store if my car needs a new battery, or my dentist next week if that appointment doesn't get delayed again.

Having to get and show papers just for leaving your house, like in at least parts of Italy, is more oppressive than is warranted in our circumstances.

I don't think the DC region is going to do much stopping of traffic to check why you're out, given the large number of federal facilities that have some kind of operations still going on (though my employer has said to carry the Atty General memo with us).  Even down in Fredericksburg there is still a fair amount of traffic but the only place I've seen a cop in my limited forays out are by a playground with hoops and a ball field as a deterrent for folks wanting to get out there in groups.  People are still walking the Rappahannock River trails with no hassles.

I think law enforcement will concentrate (as NC should be doing) on what people are doing once they exit the vehicle.  Doing the stuff on your list?  Almost certainly ok as long as the establishment (in Virginia) complies with the <10 customer rule.  Congregating in groups (for whatever reason)?  Then you're going to be questioned. 

[LM117]

Reading the order and seeing the statute applied that certainly leaves the door open for people start being questioned about "where they are going and why"  by a police officer under the pretense of "reasonable suspicion." .  Granted I doubt that something like charging people with crimes for things like protests is going to upset many in the general public.  Nonetheless there might be some hidden escalation of how these "stay at home orders"  might be enforced going forward in some states and jurisdictions.

A friend of mine works at Franklin Baking in Goldsboro, NC and he said that the cops were enforcing that order pretty heavily. He already got stopped once, but once he showed them a paper he got from his job, they let him go. Can't speak for other areas of NC, though.

Yikes.  I hope NY never goes that far.  I absolutely, positively, can't stand the idea of having to justify myself to authority figures.  It's the reason I've always hated crossing the border.

Apparently, the level of enforcement in NC varies. The Johnston County Sheriff has said that his deputies would not be randomly pulling people over.

https://jocoreport.com/sheriff-bizzell-releases-statement-on-stay-at-home-order/

[LM117]

A friend of mine works at Franklin Baking in Goldsboro, NC and he said that the cops were enforcing that order pretty heavily. He already got stopped once, but once he showed them a paper he got from his job, they let him go. Can't speak for other areas of NC, though.

Yikes.  I hope NY never goes that far.  I absolutely, positively, can't stand the idea of having to justify myself to authority figures.  It's the reason I've always hated crossing the border.

Ditto. I hope NC law enforcement comes to its senses, and its VA (or DC or MD) counterparts don't follow that bad example. People going to and from work can carry and show their papers. But I can't possibly document my need for non-work local travel, to shop for groceries, or a restaurant to grab some breakfast at its drive-thru, or the post office to pick up mail for a friend who's housebound after leg surgery, or to my friend's house to check in on him and deliver his mail, or my storage unit to retrieve and update an external hard drive as part of replacing my laptop, or to a hardware store to buy a voltmeter, or to an auto parts store if my car needs a new battery, or my dentist next week if that appointment doesn't get delayed again.

Having to get and show papers just for leaving your house, like in at least parts of Italy, is more oppressive than is warranted in our circumstances.

I don't think the DC region is going to do much stopping of traffic to check why you're out, given the large number of federal facilities that have some kind of operations still going on (though my employer has said to carry the Atty General memo with us).  Even down in Fredericksburg there is still a fair amount of traffic but the only place I've seen a cop in my limited forays out are by a playground with hoops and a ball field as a deterrent for folks wanting to get out there in groups.  People are still walking the Rappahannock River trails with no hassles.

I think law enforcement will concentrate (as NC should be doing) on what people are doing once they exit the vehicle.  Doing the stuff on your list?  Almost certainly ok as long as the establishment (in Virginia) complies with the <10 customer rule.  Congregating in groups (for whatever reason)?  Then you're going to be questioned.

I went into Danville yesterday morning (I live outside city limits), and you'd never know there was a stay-at-home order, judging by the amount of traffic. The only cop I saw was a state trooper cruising along with traffic. Granted, I don't know how many were "essential" or how many were just giving Northam the middle finger...

[1995hoo]

Reading the order and seeing the statute applied that certainly leaves the door open for people start being questioned about “where they are going and why” by a police officer under the pretense of “reasonable suspicion.”.  Granted I doubt that something like charging people with crimes for things like protests is going to upset many in the general public.  Nonetheless there might be some hidden escalation of how these “stay at home orders” might be enforced going forward in some states and jurisdictions.

A friend of mine works at Franklin Baking in Goldsboro, NC and he said that the cops were enforcing that order pretty heavily. He already got stopped once, but once he showed them a paper he got from his job, they let him go. Can't speak for other areas of NC, though.

It's also happening in SoCal. They have essentially suspended freedom of movement.

Thought-processes like this makes it extremely hard for countries like the US to get pandemics like this under control.  By the summer months we'll be saying "China did a much better job containing the virus to just a few months".  But their people had a better understanding of just staying at home.  The same people complaining here in the US bitch about their Constitutional Rights won't stay the hell home.

Because some people take "their constitutional right" to mean "I should be able to do whatever I want to regardless of how it may impact my fellow man, and therefore I will" to an entitled extreme. 

I think the bigger issue is that China likely wouldn't hesitate to execute people in a summary fashion if they ignored these sorts of orders, so of course they probably see better adherence to these sorts of things than the US does.

[kalvado]

Reading the order and seeing the statute applied that certainly leaves the door open for people start being questioned about "where they are going and why"  by a police officer under the pretense of "reasonable suspicion." .  Granted I doubt that something like charging people with crimes for things like protests is going to upset many in the general public.  Nonetheless there might be some hidden escalation of how these "stay at home orders"  might be enforced going forward in some states and jurisdictions.

A friend of mine works at Franklin Baking in Goldsboro, NC and he said that the cops were enforcing that order pretty heavily. He already got stopped once, but once he showed them a paper he got from his job, they let him go. Can't speak for other areas of NC, though.

It's also happening in SoCal. They have essentially suspended freedom of movement.

Thought-processes like this makes it extremely hard for countries like the US to get pandemics like this under control.  By the summer months we'll be saying "China did a much better job containing the virus to just a few months".  But their people had a better understanding of just staying at home.  The same people complaining here in the US bitch about their Constitutional Rights won't stay the hell home.

Because some people take "their constitutional right" to mean "I should be able to do whatever I want to regardless of how it may impact my fellow man, and therefore I will" to an entitled extreme. 

I think the bigger issue is that China likely wouldn't hesitate to execute people in a summary fashion if they ignored these sorts of orders, so of course they probably see better adherence to these sorts of things than the US does.

Europe doing steep fines - hundreds and even thousands. I wonder if approach similar to parking - pay first, appeal later - can be implemented towards these fines. A bit short of execution, but a strong enough reminder. 

[02 Park Ave]

The two films most appropriate to view at this time would be:  Fahrenheit 451 and Dr. Strangelove.

When watching the latter checkout the similarities between Doctors Fauci and Strangelove.

[jemacedo9]

Reading the order and seeing the statute applied that certainly leaves the door open for people start being questioned about “where they are going and why” by a police officer under the pretense of “reasonable suspicion.”.  Granted I doubt that something like charging people with crimes for things like protests is going to upset many in the general public.  Nonetheless there might be some hidden escalation of how these “stay at home orders” might be enforced going forward in some states and jurisdictions.

A friend of mine works at Franklin Baking in Goldsboro, NC and he said that the cops were enforcing that order pretty heavily. He already got stopped once, but once he showed them a paper he got from his job, they let him go. Can't speak for other areas of NC, though.

It's also happening in SoCal. They have essentially suspended freedom of movement.

Thought-processes like this makes it extremely hard for countries like the US to get pandemics like this under control.  By the summer months we'll be saying "China did a much better job containing the virus to just a few months".  But their people had a better understanding of just staying at home.  The same people complaining here in the US bitch about their Constitutional Rights won't stay the hell home.

Because some people take "their constitutional right" to mean "I should be able to do whatever I want to regardless of how it may impact my fellow man, and therefore I will" to an entitled extreme. 

I think the bigger issue is that China likely wouldn't hesitate to execute people in a summary fashion if they ignored these sorts of orders, so of course they probably see better adherence to these sorts of things than the US does.

Agreed that it's an issue.  Not sure if it is bigger.  Both issues exist.

[J N Winkler]

It really depends on what you're looking at and why. The United States performs poorly compared to its first world peers on life expectancy and infant mortality, but this isn't because our healthcare system itself is less capable - it's because not everyone has equal access to it. Americans who lack the means to receive proper healthcare drag these metrics down.

Otherwise, Americans who do have access to healthcare enjoy higher standards of it. And fortunately for the purposes of fighting covid, governments have been stepping up and working to eliminate barriers to access for this specifically.

Here's a good sniff test: New York City has a population comparable to but slightly lower than Lombardy (8.4 million vs. 10.1 million). New York City has over 40,000 confirmed cases and is still treating everyone who requires hospitalization. By the time Lombardy got to that many cases, they were already picking and choosing who to attempt to save.

I agree that the US health care system leads to better outcomes for certain categories of disease, such as cancer, than most if not all socialized medical systems in Europe, but I don't think a comparison of triaging between Lombardy and NYC really tells us much.  The age structure is different, smoking is more prevalent in Italy, the level of antibiotic resistance is likely higher there, and different terminology for similar types of intake may mask how perfunctory treatment really is for hopeless cases in NYC.

In any event, the Associated Press is now reporting the use of forklift trucks to load dead bodies into refrigerated trailers in NYC.

[kalvado]

It really depends on what you're looking at and why. The United States performs poorly compared to its first world peers on life expectancy and infant mortality, but this isn't because our healthcare system itself is less capable - it's because not everyone has equal access to it. Americans who lack the means to receive proper healthcare drag these metrics down.

Otherwise, Americans who do have access to healthcare enjoy higher standards of it. And fortunately for the purposes of fighting covid, governments have been stepping up and working to eliminate barriers to access for this specifically.

Here's a good sniff test: New York City has a population comparable to but slightly lower than Lombardy (8.4 million vs. 10.1 million). New York City has over 40,000 confirmed cases and is still treating everyone who requires hospitalization. By the time Lombardy got to that many cases, they were already picking and choosing who to attempt to save.

I agree that the US health care system leads to better outcomes for certain categories of disease, such as cancer, than most if not all socialized medical systems in Europe, but I don't think a comparison of triaging between Lombardy and NYC really tells us much.  The age structure is different, smoking is more prevalent in Italy, the level of antibiotic resistance is likely higher there, and different terminology for similar types of intake may mask how perfunctory treatment really is for hopeless cases in NYC.

In any event, the Associated Press is now reporting the use of forklift trucks to load dead bodies into refrigerated trailers in NYC.

NYC is not at peak yet as well, things will get worse...

[thspfc]

Is this the first time that a thread about an event has been stickied?

[webny99]

But their people had a better understanding of just staying at home.

Perhaps more precisely, their people have a better understanding of "do what the government says, or else".
It's a totally reversed mindset to what we're used to here in the US: "why would I listen to the government?" vs. "how could I even consider not listening to the government?"

I think the bigger issue is that China likely wouldn't hesitate to execute people in a summary fashion if they ignored these sorts of orders, so of course they probably see better adherence to these sorts of things than the US does.

Yeah, we have no idea what's going on there. They've got conflicting interests (public health vs. the economy) on a scale that's hard to even comprehend, which is no doubt why they're trying so hard to keep information under wraps.
They're not fooling anyone but themselves by reporting fewer deaths than the US though... that's not even remotely believable.

[7/8]

The two films most appropriate to view at this time would be:  Fahrenheit 451 and Dr. Strangelove.

When watching the latter checkout the similarities between Doctors Fauci and Strangelove.

You forgot Contagion (a more intense version of COVID-19)

[02 Park Ave]

A friend of mine works at Franklin Baking in Goldsboro, NC and he said that the cops were enforcing that order pretty heavily. He already got stopped once, but once he showed them a paper he got from his job, they let him go. Can't speak for other areas of NC, though.

Great, now we're a "papers please" country.

We have been ever since our driver's licenses became Soviet-style "Internal Passports".

[kalvado]

But their people had a better understanding of just staying at home.

Perhaps more precisely, their people have a better understanding of "do what the government says, or else".
It's a totally reversed mindset to what we're used to here in the US: "why would I listen to the government?" vs. "how could I even consider not listening to the government?"

I think the bigger issue is that China likely wouldn't hesitate to execute people in a summary fashion if they ignored these sorts of orders, so of course they probably see better adherence to these sorts of things than the US does.

Yeah, we have no idea what's going on there. They've got conflicting interests (public health vs. the economy) on a scale that's hard to even comprehend, which is no doubt why they're trying so hard to keep information under wraps.
They're not fooling anyone but themselves by reporting fewer deaths than the US though... that's not even remotely believable.

I would say China is probably fairly honest. Unlike US, they got qualified people working these tasks; and their skills are battle-tested in SARS epidemics.
Numbers add up pretty reasonably.