Coronavirus pandemic

[kalvado]

If anything something that could be parlayed in public messages is promoting living a healthy lifestyle as a way of being able to fight off disease.  I don't any data to back this up but it sure seems that a good percentage of younger people who (under 50) who are getting the worst symptoms (and end up in news stories) aren't exactly the bastions of healthy living.  Considering how many professional athletes who were diagnosed had mild symptoms no symptoms at all probably isn't a coincidence.

As of right now, general message I hear - smoking MAY be correlated, but even that is not certain. Otherwise, the say it is fairly random.
I wouldn't be surprised, after all is said and done, it will turn out that certain genetic variations make people more vulnerable. It was "Asians are more prone" originally, doesn't look like the case anymore. Still, genetic links of many diseases are now coming up..
Feel free to push for a random agenda, though, a good crisis should never be wasted.
***edited to fix quote format

[Max Rockatansky]

[quote author=Max Rockatansky link=topic=26301.msg2490500#msg2490500 date=158
If anything something that could be parlayed in public messages is promoting living a healthy lifestyle as a way of being able to fight off disease.  I don't any data to back this up but it sure seems that a good percentage of younger people who (under 50) who are getting the worst symptoms (and end up in news stories) aren't exactly the bastions of healthy living.  Considering how many professional athletes who were diagnosed had mild symptoms no symptoms at all probably isn't a coincidence.

As of right now, general message I hear - smoking MAY be correlated, but even that is not certain. Otherwise, the say it is fairly random.
I wouldn't be surprised, after all is said and done, it will turn out that certain genetic variations make people more vulnerable. It was "Asians are more prone" originally, doesn't look like the case anymore. Still, genetic links of many diseases are now coming up..
Feel free to push for a random agenda, though, a good crisis should never be wasted.
[/quote]

^^^

What pushing for people to actually live healthy lifestyles?  Especially those around me?...sign me up.  I'd argue if my Dad didn't spend 35 years of his life sitting around inactive and overeating he never would have had heart problems.  Conversely I doubt my Mom would have had lung cancer had she not smoked for 48 years.  To that end both of them would be lumped into the category of high risk during the current pandemic if they were alive.  These days I have a bunch of family now through my wife that I see making the exact same or very similar mistakes.  If making them worry about getting a virus is the push they need, why not give it a try?  Its not like I can make them change their ways, but it doesn't mean it isn't worth a try.

Besides, is it not the public message already that people in unhealthy groups/lifestyles are ones who at risk and needed protection from everyone else in society?  Living a healthier lifestyle doesn't completely eliminate risk nor makes one immune to disease but it certainly wouldn't hurt putting the odds in one's favor.

[Max Rockatansky]

If anything something that could be parlayed in public messages is promoting living a healthy lifestyle as a way of being able to fight off disease.  I don't any data to back this up but it sure seems that a good percentage of younger people who (under 50) who are getting the worst symptoms (and end up in news stories) aren't exactly the bastions of healthy living.  Considering how many professional athletes who were diagnosed had mild symptoms no symptoms at all probably isn't a coincidence. 

So far, all I've had is the headcold from Hell, but I'm staying in rather than taking any chances.

Isn't the general rule of thumb right now to isolate for 72 hours and to see if the symptoms improve?  Seems like the major symptoms are of COVID-19; fatigue, fever, and a dry cough by a large margin.  Apparently cold like symptoms show up in a small percentage of cases followed by some other flu-like symptoms or digestive issues.

[Max Rockatansky]

It seems that the Coronavirus in California back late 2019 theory is starting to get a little mainstream attention.  There has been several articles today based of something a Stanford research said.

https://abc7.com/health/coronavirus-herd-immunity-in-california-doctor-shares-his-thoughts/6093912/

Granted the comparisons between New York and California aren't one-for-one.  The only City that has a density near NYC is San Francisco and they shut down early.  Most communities are far more spread out in the rest of the state than they are in NYS.

[webny99]

Most communities are far more spread out in the rest of the state than they are in NYS.

I think you mean NYC, not NYS?
The city is very dense, obviously, but there are not many densely populated areas up here north of the 42nd parallel. 

[Max Rockatansky]

Most communities are far more spread out in the rest of the state than they are in NYS.

I think you mean NYC, not NYS?
The city is very dense, obviously, but there are not many densely populated areas up here north of the 42nd parallel. 

I mean both, the East Coast in general is far more densely populated than anything on the west coast.  You can easily go 100 miles in between towns in California and even further than that in places like Nevada.  I can't think of a single place out East aside from maybe northern Maine that is similarly sparsely populated. 

Speaking of that, does anyone know what the population density of New York State is if New York City is excluded?  I'd be curious to see what the actual figure is. 

[wxfree]

I'm in no hurry for huge public gatherings. But limiting basic travel and simple assembly just rips everything out of society. And I don't even think it was effective. States or countries that issued major lockdowns still had more and more cases for a long time afterward. There should have been plenty of time to reduce new cases dramatically.

There is no question that keeping people apart reduces the spread of viruses; that is an undeniable fact.  Pointing out the places that have the most severe restrictions also had the highest number of infections is like pointing out that the places that use the most water putting out wildfires have the most fires.  The relationship is obvious.  No one thinks that using less water will result in fewer fires.  Using less water to put out fires now will only result in using more water to put out bigger fires later.

[SEWIGuy]

These pastors are putting their congregation in compromised situations. But they are trying to play the "Freedom of Religion" card with law enforcement.

No, they aren't. People can make their own decisions about whether or not to attend services.

Its ridiculously dangerous when you consider that people can spread this disease for days before developing symptoms...if they ever develop symptoms.  Church goers are putting not just themselves at risk, but society at large.

Just stay the f*ck home and watch a service on TV or something.

[fwydriver405]

Are there any toll facilities that are still accepting cash tolls as of today? The Maine Turnpike is still collecting cash tolls full-time, and New Hampshire is still accepting cash, albeit exact change only from 5am-9pm daily, and then going AET outside of those hours.

[formulanone]

The freedom-of-religion nutjobs can wait their turn in the legal channels, after all the medical malpractice suits, contract breaking/wiggling, disputed business practices, are taken care of for the next two decades. Show us on the imaginary friend where the government hurt you, and then we'll await that day in court. I've met actual humans who had been deprived of their freedom to worship publicly for far longer than three weeks, and they lived to tell the tale.

"Freedom" and "ignorance" only come before "responsibility" in a dictionary.

[Max Rockatansky]

The freedom-of-religion nutjobs can wait their turn in the legal channels, after all the medical malpractice suits, contract breaking/wiggling, disputed business practices, are taken care of for the next two decades. Show us on the imaginary friend where the government hurt you, and then we'll await that day in court.

"Freedom" and "ignorance" only come before "responsibility" in a dictionary.

Didn't the governor of Kentucky just mandate that anyone attending a Easter Service will have to 14 day self quarantine?  I'm sure that will go off without a hitch or legal challenge in a Bible Belt state...

Conversely, a lot of religions and individual churches can be very aggressive with persuading their "congregations"  to attend.  I'm not saying I agree I'm just saying that nobody should be surprised that a lot of push back will he coming. 

[TheGrassGuy]

"Florida governor accelerates delayed infrastructure projects with less people on the road." - CNN

[J N Winkler]

If anything something that could be parlayed in public messages is promoting living a healthy lifestyle as a way of being able to fight off disease.  I don't any data to back this up but it sure seems that a good percentage of younger people who (under 50) who are getting the worst symptoms (and end up in news stories) aren't exactly the bastions of healthy living.  Considering how many professional athletes who were diagnosed had mild symptoms no symptoms at all probably isn't a coincidence.

As of right now, general message I hear - smoking MAY be correlated, but even that is not certain.  Otherwise, they say it is fairly random.

I wouldn't be surprised, after all is said and done, it will turn out that certain genetic variations make people more vulnerable. It was "Asians are more prone" originally, doesn't look like the case anymore. Still, genetic links of many diseases are now coming up.

I expect it to be confirmed eventually that a young healthy person's likelihood of developing severe COVID-19 depends on the virus load associated with exposure.  Correlation has already been established (severe cases are associated with high virus load).  If and when causation is proven, our failure to ensure frontline healthcare workers are provided with adequate PPE will be seen in a new and unflattering light.

Choice of treatment method is also increasingly thought to have an effect on survival chances.  Hospitals have been increasingly relying on alternative treatment approaches, such as CPAP with oxygen supplementation, since it is now thought that invasive mechanical ventilation itself is killing a certain proportion of the patients on it.

[LM117]

Has COVID-19 been really conclusively shown to bring on things like heart problems?  If someone had a severe "underlying condition" and it ended up being brought to a head by an infection like COVID-19...is it still not more attributable to that underlying condition over the virus?  It does seem misleading to pinpoint the cause of death solely to a viral infection in cases where there was clearly a severe medical problem that was waiting on the straw to break the camel's back.  To that end, is there any clear data out there showing the percentage of deaths in individuals with serious known existing health problems versus those who don't?

Well, the worsening of heart problems is obvious for me. You see, what this virus does it affects lungs - so oxygen absorption. Once the body doesn't get enough oxygen, rationing via blood vessels shrinkage and expansion starts (body's objective is to keep the brain alive at any cost). Heart is a very hard-working muscle, needs a lot of O2, and prone to problems with lack of transport.

This is why I've been staying home as much as possible, even before our governor gave his executive order. I've had symptomatic PVC's and random bouts of sinus tachycardia (high heart rate) since 2013, and in 2018 my blood pressure became a big problem, especially the diastolic pressure.

I'm taking propranolol 20mg three times a day and losartan 25mg once a day just to keep me above ground and out of the hospital. Last damn thing I need is this virus.

[kalvado]

If anything something that could be parlayed in public messages is promoting living a healthy lifestyle as a way of being able to fight off disease.  I don't any data to back this up but it sure seems that a good percentage of younger people who (under 50) who are getting the worst symptoms (and end up in news stories) aren't exactly the bastions of healthy living.  Considering how many professional athletes who were diagnosed had mild symptoms no symptoms at all probably isn't a coincidence.

As of right now, general message I hear - smoking MAY be correlated, but even that is not certain.  Otherwise, they say it is fairly random.

I wouldn't be surprised, after all is said and done, it will turn out that certain genetic variations make people more vulnerable. It was "Asians are more prone" originally, doesn't look like the case anymore. Still, genetic links of many diseases are now coming up.

I expect it to be confirmed eventually that a young healthy person's likelihood of developing severe COVID-19 depends on the virus load associated with exposure.  Correlation has already been established (severe cases are associated with high virus load).  If and when causation is proven, our failure to ensure frontline healthcare workers are provided with adequate PPE will be seen in a new and unflattering light.

Choice of treatment method is also increasingly thought to have an effect on survival chances.  Hospitals have been increasingly relying on alternative treatment approaches, such as CPAP with oxygen supplementation, since it is now thought that invasive mechanical ventilation itself is killing a certain proportion of the patients on it.

Virus load most likely matters. Doctors seem to be falling sick, worse than regular people. NOT us only 95% efficient after all. Even the mask I have for work is better than 99.9... but it costs few hundred $..
I heard some very negative opinion about CPAP. Same people were advocating whole lung lavage as a better option, and I would call those arguments very sound. But that is just my opinion.

[TheGrassGuy]

So NYC mayor De Blasio decides to join the trend of closing schools for the rest of the year... only for his decision to be voided by NYS governor Cuomo. CT governor Lamont has extended the reopening date to May 20 (1 month), while NJ governor Murphy has dodged the question entirely for now.

[ftballfan]

So NYC mayor De Blasio decides to join the trend of closing schools for the rest of the year... only for his decision to be voided by NYS governor Cuomo. CT governor Lamont has extended the reopening date to May 20 (1 month), while NJ governor Murphy has dodged the question entirely for now.

I'm surprised it's taken this long for anyone in the NYC tri-state area to even consider it. Michigan, Pennsylvania, and California (which are #3, #4, and #5 respectively in number of cases) made the decision to close schools for the remainder of the year in the last week. The first state to call off school for the rest of the year was Kansas, which I think has less than 500 cases

[tidecat]

The freedom-of-religion nutjobs can wait their turn in the legal channels, after all the medical malpractice suits, contract breaking/wiggling, disputed business practices, are taken care of for the next two decades. Show us on the imaginary friend where the government hurt you, and then we'll await that day in court.

"Freedom" and "ignorance" only come before "responsibility" in a dictionary.

Didn't the governor of Kentucky just mandate that anyone attending a Easter Service will have to 14 day self quarantine?  I'm sure that will go off without a hitch or legal challenge in a Bible Belt state...

Conversely, a lot of religions and individual churches can be very aggressive with persuading their "congregations"  to attend.  I'm not saying I agree I'm just saying that nobody should be surprised that a lot of push back will he coming. 

Louisville Metro has been enjoined on enforcing a county-wide ban on drive-in church services. The church that sued them had been holding drive-in services for a couple of weeks.  Kentucky Governor Andy Beshear has allowed drive-in services to continue as long as they follow CDC guidelines. What may be a bigger issue tomorrow is the weather.

What has been particularly bad optics for Mayor Fischer is that LMPD announced they will no longer respond to certain calls a few weeks ago, but is being asked to collect license plate information from people attending church - and that's on top of other scandals in the months prior to that.

[webny99]

Most communities are far more spread out in the rest of the state than they are in NYS.

I think you mean NYC, not NYS?
The city is very dense, obviously, but there are not many densely populated areas up here north of the 42nd parallel. 

I mean both, the East Coast in general is far more densely populated than anything on the west coast.  You can easily go 100 miles in between towns in California and even further than that in places like Nevada.  I can't think of a single place out East aside from maybe northern Maine that is similarly sparsely populated. 

Speaking of that, does anyone know what the population density of New York State is if New York City is excluded?  I'd be curious to see what the actual figure is.

Parts of New York's Adirondacks are probably similar to Northern Maine in terms of population density. Hamilton County, for example: 4400 people / 1800 sq. miles = 2.4 people per sq. mile.

So to answer your other question:

Area
Total Area: 54,556
Less downstate (using county lines closest to 42nd parallel): ~4,500
Area upstate: 50,050

Population
Total 2010 Population: 19,378,102
Less downstate (using county lines closest to 42nd parallel): 13,298,866
Pop. upstate: 6,079,236

13,298,866 / 4,500 = 2,955.3 people per sq. mile downstate
6,079,236 / 50,050 = 121.4 people per sq. mile upstate

Overall, upstate is quite similar to Kentucky, density-wise. And personally I think it's quite similar to Wisconsin, too. Slightly denser, but very comparable areas and populations, and they're both on the Great Lakes too. 

[bandit957]

\Kentucky Governor Andy Beshear has allowed drive-in services to continue as long as they follow CDC guidelines.

And he was quite right to allow it. I haven't been to Easter services since 1982, but a drive-in service doesn't seem to pose any viral threat.

[LM117]

Speaking of Kentucky...

https://kentucky.gov/Pages/Activity-stream.aspx?n=GovernorBeshear&prId=122

[hbelkins]

If you want to loot an electronics store like Best Buy, or a Lowe's (since they announced they would be closed on Easter), tomorrow at 11 a.m. would be a good opportunity if you're in Kentucky. The cops are going to be busy cruising church parking lots recording license places of the people there.

[J N Winkler]

I'm surprised it's taken this long for anyone in the NYC tri-state area to even consider it. Michigan, Pennsylvania, and California (which are #3, #4, and #5 respectively in number of cases) made the decision to close schools for the remainder of the year in the last week. The first state to call off school for the rest of the year was Kansas, which I think has less than 500 cases

In Kansas we have 1268 cases as of today.  When Governor Kelly ordered schools to close for the remainder of the year on March 17, we had only 16 confirmed cases and were ten days after discovery of the first case on March 7.  However, we did have known community spread in Wyandotte County as of March 12 and Johnson County as of March 14.

Kelly's school closure order was controversial and resulted in the Legislature passing a joint resolution giving the Legislative Coordinating Council review rights over further gubernatorial orders.  This set the stage for an ongoing fight (the Kansas Supreme Court heard oral arguments earlier today) over a later order extending the 10-person gathering limit (part of the statewide lockdown, which Kelly instituted on March 30) to religious services.

[webny99]

For states with school districts that don't have online classes and communication down to a science (which I assume is most or all states), it seems much too early to be closing schools for the rest of the year. That's over 2 months away in most states!

[Roadgeekteen]

For states with school districts that don't have online classes and communication down to a science (which I assume is most or all states), it seems much too early to be closing schools for the rest of the year. That's over 2 months away in most states!

I heard that many states close school at the beginning of June/late May. My school is open till June 19th.