Coronavirus pandemic

[kalvado]

Don't get me wrong, I know a lot of these policies are made on the fly.  The bigger problem is that when there are glaring errors like this there is often little motivation to get them clarified or adjusted.

Thing is, we're on exact same page. I am looking at the thing a bit from "what I would do in this situation? Would I do it better?" perspective - and I have to admit that many mistakes are very understandable. That doesn't make them non-mistakes, though.

[oscar]

Don't get me wrong, I know a lot of these policies are made on the fly.  The bigger problem is that when there are glaring errors like this there is often little motivation to get them clarified or adjusted. 

They can at least draw on other states' orders. That might repeat other states' mistakes, but at least avoid making new ones.

[hbelkins]

Don't get me wrong, I know a lot of these policies are made on the fly.  The bigger problem is that when there are glaring errors like this there is often little motivation to get them clarified or adjusted. 

They can at least draw on other states' orders. That might repeat other states' mistakes, but at least avoid making new ones.

People in Kentucky with access to Ohio media markets got in the habit of seeing what DeWine would do to predict what Beshear would do the next day.

[Duke87]

For those that feel the need to walk in the street to keep 6 feet away...what do you do in the supermarket when passing by someone in the aisle? Climb over the shelving?

Yes, it's good to maintain social distance while walking outside. No need to go overboard with it though when the encounter will last all of 1.5 seconds, usually with no conversation or contact which are the primary cause of virus transfers.

This is one of those things where I've adopted the habit mostly because I've observed other people doing it and thus determined it is the socially expected behavior. Objectively, yes, the exposure from briefly walking past someone outdoors, even unmasked, is basically nil... but now doesn't seem like a good time to antagonize people, so I just roll with it.

In the supermarket, obviously, it is not physically possible to pass people at greater than six feet. And ironically it's probably a higher risk situation even with faces covered since it is indoors.

[LM117]

Maga protesters in Delaware.


iPhone

What are they gonna do? Shoot the virus?

[Roadgeekteen]

Have states that opened up early experienced a spike in cases?

[bandit957]

Have states that opened up early experienced a spike in cases?

Nope.

[Roadgeekteen]

Have states that opened up early experienced a spike in cases?

Nope.

Interesting

[kalvado]

Have states that opened up early experienced a spike in cases?

Nope.

Interesting

Problem of this virus is that it takes about 2 weeks for infections to show up. Places can change policies and not realize response is there, but delayed. Once acceleration is there, nothing will change the trend for another 2 weeks.
So anything is done at risk....

[bandit957]

Have states that opened up early experienced a spike in cases?

Nope.

Interesting

This website shows which states are reducing the rate of contagion the fastest:

https://rt.live

Alaska was the first state to reopen. It's doing the best at reducing its r0.

Montana was the second state to reopen. It's doing second best.

[Roadgeekteen]

Have states that opened up early experienced a spike in cases?

Nope.

Interesting

This website shows which states are reducing the rate of contagion the fastest:

https://rt.live

Alaska was the first state to reopen. It's doing the best at reducing its r0.

Montana was the second state to reopen. It's doing second best.

Or maybe it's just because barely anyone lives in these states.

[webny99]

Have states that opened up early experienced a spike in cases?

Nope.

Interesting

This website shows which states are reducing the rate of contagion the fastest:
https://rt.live
Alaska was the first state to reopen. It's doing the best at reducing its r0.
Montana was the second state to reopen. It's doing second best.

Or maybe it's just because barely anyone lives in these states.

More specifically, they have no large cities and a very low population density.

[Roadgeekteen]

Have states that opened up early experienced a spike in cases?

Nope.

Interesting

This website shows which states are reducing the rate of contagion the fastest:
https://rt.live
Alaska was the first state to reopen. It's doing the best at reducing its r0.
Montana was the second state to reopen. It's doing second best.

Or maybe it's just because barely anyone lives in these states.

More specifically, they have no large cities and a very low population density.

That's kinda what I said just worded better

[jeffandnicole]

Have states that opened up early experienced a spike in cases?

Nope.

Interesting

This website shows which states are reducing the rate of contagion the fastest:
https://rt.live
Alaska was the first state to reopen. It's doing the best at reducing its r0.
Montana was the second state to reopen. It's doing second best.

Or maybe it's just because barely anyone lives in these states.

More specifically, they have no large cities and a very low population density.

Also, it can take up to 14 days to get sick, so we're well under that time period so far.

[kphoger]

There are 244 days from now till January 1, 2021 which is the earliest most experts believe a vaccine can be developed.  Even if the US remained under lock down, if the US averages 2200 deaths per day we will be sitting at 603,000 deaths before the vaccine is ready to go. 

I'm curious what you mean by "developed" and "ready to go".  Does that mean invented, tested, government approved, large-scale produced, and widely distributed?  I'm more than a little bit skeptical about even the "government approved" part being completed by end of year.  End of next year, maybe.

[kphoger]

what do you do in the supermarket when passing by someone in the aisle? Climb over the shelving?

Sure - assuming both parties have their masks on.

[RobbieL2415]

Not all blocks have sidewalks, and I used to be annoyed when people would walk along the curb on the right-hand side, thus aiming themselves right at me, instead of walking on the left side facing traffic, as people are supposed to do when they walk in the street.  However, I've come to realize these people are gone a lot faster than the ones who actually walk on the correct side and thus take forever to pass.

I find this idea that one is "supposed to" walk on the left side of the street facing traffic intriguing. This is sound advice when you find yourself walking on a busy road with no sidewalk, but
1) I am not aware of there being any law to this effect around here, certainly not one that is ever enforced, and
2) I don't see the principle really being applicable when dealing with quiet residential side streets.

My walkings on sidewalkless streets are almost entirely of the "quiet residential side streets" variety. In these cases I don't consistently walk down one side versus the other. In order to avoid coming close to other people walking I may switch sides, or just temporarily walk in the middle (which is fine so long as there isn't a car coming).

Relatedly though, sometimes it is necessary for one person on a sidewalk to step out into a normally busy street in order to pass someone walking the other way at sufficient distance. Preferably it is the person walking towards oncoming traffic who does this for visibility reasons, though I have found myself doing it when walking with traffic in cases where the oncoming pedestrian is unwilling to depart the sidewalk.

Regarding a "pandemic passport"  I know that's just likely wishful thinking.  Either way it would be nice to know if my wife and I had it just for peace of mind.  My Cousin caught COVID in course of her job at work already earlier on in the pandemic, I would be curious to find out if she has taken an antibody test.

With currently available tests you can't know, as they are not accurate enough for clinical use. They are only accurate enough for epidemiological use, where the ~5% error rate can be smoothed away by aggregating data from enough people.

If this happened in 2005... or even 2010, things would be much different in this country. Sure, you'd have a different president handling things, but the economic shutdown would have been way worse.

I think it's more likely that if this happened in 2005, the technology available at the time would have forced the response to be different. The shutdowns ordered would have been less comprehensive, but the instructions to cover faces may have come sooner.

The law here is:
1) if there's no sidewalk and no shoulder, walk on the left side facing traffic
2) if there's no sidewalk but there is a shoulder, walk with traffic in the shoulder
3) if there is a sidewalk, you must use it.  It is an infraction not to.

[kphoger]

I haven't yet dug into the law for either Kansas or New York. 

It's pretty standard for the Vehicle Code to require walking on the left side.

S 11-506-Pedestrians on highways

(a) Where a sidewalk is provided and its use is practicable, it shall be unlawful for any pedestrian to walk along and upon an adjacent roadway.

(b) Where a sidewalk is not available, any pedestrian walking along and upon a highway shall walk only on the shoulder, as far as practicable from the edge of the roadway.

(c) Where neither a sidewalk nor a shoulder is available, any pedestrian walking along and upon a highway shall walk as near as practicable to an outside edge of the roadway, and if on a two-way roadway, shall walk only on the left side of the roadway.

(d) Except as otherwise provided in this chapter, any pedestrian upon a roadway shall yield the right of way to all vehicles upon the roadway.

8-1537. Same; use of roadways.

(a) Where a sidewalk is provided and its use is practicable, it shall be unlawful for any pedestrian to walk along and upon an adjacent roadway.

(b) Where a sidewalk is not available, any pedestrian walking along and upon a highway shall walk only on a shoulder, as far as practicable from the edge of the roadway.

(c) Where neither a sidewalk nor a shoulder is available, any pedestrian walking along and upon a highway shall walk as near as practicable to an outside edge of the roadway, and, if on a two-way roadway, shall walk only on the left side of the roadway.

(d) Except as otherwise provided in this article, any pedestrian upon a roadway shall yield the right-of-way to all vehicles upon the roadway.

§ 1156. Pedestrians on roadways.

(a) Where sidewalks are provided and they may be used with safety it shall be unlawful for any pedestrian to walk along and upon an adjacent roadway.

(b) Where sidewalks are not provided any pedestrian walking along and upon a highway shall when practicable walk only on the left side of the roadway or its shoulder facing traffic which may approach from the opposite direction.  Upon the approach of any vehicle from the opposite direction, such pedestrian shall move as far to the left as is practicable.

[kphoger]

For those that feel the need to walk in the street to keep 6 feet away...what do you do in the supermarket when passing by someone in the aisle? Climb over the shelving?

Yes, it's good to maintain social distance while walking outside. No need to go overboard with it though when the encounter will last all of 1.5 seconds, usually with no conversation or contact which are the primary cause of virus transfers.

It's not that I really feel the need, it's more that others have a deer in the headlights look.  That being the case I'm usually the one who takes the initiative to move reasonably.  The store doesn't bother me all that much, it's rare seeing anyone without at least a basic mask anymore mandated or not.

Same here.  I try not to walk too closely to other pedestrians not out concern to avoid catching the virus, but out of concern for the feelings of the other person.

[kphoger]

My sister and her husband have decided to come down from the Des Moines area to spend time with family.  My parents and they will have dinner at our house Friday evening, and then we'll grill out at my parents' house on Saturday for Mothers Day.

Nine people total, just under the legal limit.  *whew*

[bandit957]

My sister and her husband have decided to come down from the Des Moines area to spend time with family.  My parents and they will have dinner at our house Friday evening, and then we'll grill out at my parents' house on Saturday for Mothers Day.

Nine people total, just under the legal limit.  *whew*

I don't think people even pay attention to the stay-at-home orders anymore, to be quite frank. It really wore on people.

[kphoger]

My (very limited) impression is that people who cared before still care about the orders now, and people who don't care about them now didn't care before.

[bandit957]

My (very limited) impression is that people who cared before still care about the orders now, and people who don't care about them now didn't care before.

I'm not even sure what the rules are anymore.

People keep having huge events in states that supposedly have stay-at-home orders. It's not just the big public protests we keep hearing about, but also a protest by nurses who need more medical equipment. They traveled from California and Puerto Rico all the way to D.C.

I see my neighbors having gatherings that obviously aren't following the orders. And people still keep visiting other states.

A lot of governors express dismay over the protests, but they don't really specifically try to stop them.

I saw a news photo taken just yesterday of people gathering in Central Park, of all places. They weren't wearing masks or bandanas or anything like that. Plus there was the photos of people on beaches in California last weekend.

The lockdowns are frankly pretty dumb, and the lockdowns literally damaged my health. But I think now people just stopped caring about them. There's limits on what people can handle.

[kphoger]

There's limits on what people can are willing to handle.

Your own health crisis aside (but only briefly for the purpose of this argument), I think my edit is more accurate as it pertains to the specific situation.

[bandit957]

Also, a lot of websites say Kentucky never really had a stay-at-home order, since it was phrased as more of a less threatening "healthy at home" statement. A lot of states are moving towards that, maybe even Ohio.

But trust me, it was a stay-at-home order. It was a really rough time.

I'm not sure if anyone was arrested over it. A lot of people say it was really just a very, very strong suggestion, not an order. But trust me, it was an order. I always thought it was mandatory. Kentucky did tell churches specifically not to have Easter services.