Coronavirus pandemic

[hotdogPi]

I hear a lot about "china lied" - nothing concrete. So far my impression is US racism extends way beyond issue of white-and-black.

The Chinese government is not a racial group.

That's like, if people say the Kremlin lied about something, claiming they're racist against ethnic Russians.

That was the justification for the US to put ethnic Japanese in camps during WWII. It shouldn't have any connection, but some people equate the two.

[kalvado]

I hear a lot about "china lied" - nothing concrete. So far my impression is US racism extends way beyond issue of white-and-black.

The Chinese government is not a racial group.

That's like, if people say the Kremlin lied about something, claiming they're racist against ethnic Russians.

There was A LOT of "we have much better hygiene, infection will never spread over here" thinking - and (IN)ACTION. So yes, it was about race.

[NWI_Irish96]

I hear a lot about "china lied" - nothing concrete. So far my impression is US racism extends way beyond issue of white-and-black.

The Chinese government is not a racial group.

That's like, if people say the Kremlin lied about something, claiming they're racist against ethnic Russians.

There was A LOT of "we have much better hygiene, infection will never spread over here" thinking - and (IN)ACTION. So yes, it was about race.

I've never heard that even once until you just posted it now. There's no question that China lied, or at the very least hid the truth about this virus in the beginning. It doesn't excuse the inaction that led this country to have the highest death rate, but it is most certainly a contributing factor.

[kphoger]

I hear a lot about "china lied" - nothing concrete. So far my impression is US racism extends way beyond issue of white-and-black.

The Chinese government is not a racial group.

That's like, if people say the Kremlin lied about something, claiming they're racist against ethnic Russians.

There was A LOT of "we have much better hygiene, infection will never spread over here" thinking - and (IN)ACTION. So yes, it was about race.

That's correct.  And it may or may not be true that we have better hygiene here.  And saying so may or may not be racist.  But that has nothing do with "China lied".

[kalvado]

I hear a lot about "china lied" - nothing concrete. So far my impression is US racism extends way beyond issue of white-and-black.

The Chinese government is not a racial group.

That's like, if people say the Kremlin lied about something, claiming they're racist against ethnic Russians.

There was A LOT of "we have much better hygiene, infection will never spread over here" thinking - and (IN)ACTION. So yes, it was about race.

I've never heard that even once until you just posted it now. There's no question that China lied, or at the very least hid the truth about this virus in the beginning. It doesn't excuse the inaction that led this country to have the highest death rate, but it is most certainly a contributing factor.

If you count initial confusion - which is an expected part of any crisis - as lied, then you will have to admit that US lied even more.... 

[kalvado]

I hear a lot about "china lied" - nothing concrete. So far my impression is US racism extends way beyond issue of white-and-black.

The Chinese government is not a racial group.

That's like, if people say the Kremlin lied about something, claiming they're racist against ethnic Russians.

There was A LOT of "we have much better hygiene, infection will never spread over here" thinking - and (IN)ACTION. So yes, it was about race.

That's correct.  And it may or may not be true that we have better hygiene here.  And saying so may or may not be racist.  But that has nothing do with "China lied".

Well, slightly different aspect from this very thread:

We really shouldn't downplay the spread of COVID-19, which has a much higher fatality rate than the normal flu (around 2%) and seems to spread quite fast. Japan and South Korea have both started their own quarantines to try and contain the spread, Italy has its outbreak, and there's only so much we can learn out of China. Even the "underreported" figures are quite significant, and it's also having an impact on the world economy as more and more man-hours are lost in China.

That being said, the media hype is causing its own problems. Locally, there's been an uptick in anti-Asian racism, including harassment that I have experienced myself on the street.

That racism towards Asians and Asian-Americans (myself included–my mother and her family are from Taichung, Taiwan) really is disgusting when you get down to the nitty-gritty. I keep telling this to my friends that I have talked to on FB and whatnot.

[74/171FAN]

2. Inability to help others. Who was sending help when Italy was the first hot spot? China and Russia, of all places. What did the US do to help? A friend in need...

Samaritan's Purse sent a field hospital to Cremona, Italy, before later setting up the one in NYC.

(Note that I understand that Samaritan's Purse is a religious organization. Knowing that posting this is debatably against the Forum Guidelines, my intent here in mentioning this is only to state that an organization in the U.S. did help out in Italy.)

[kphoger]

Well, slightly different aspect from this very thread:

We really shouldn't downplay the spread of COVID-19, which has a much higher fatality rate than the normal flu (around 2%) and seems to spread quite fast. Japan and South Korea have both started their own quarantines to try and contain the spread, Italy has its outbreak, and there's only so much we can learn out of China. Even the "underreported" figures are quite significant, and it's also having an impact on the world economy as more and more man-hours are lost in China.

That being said, the media hype is causing its own problems. Locally, there's been an uptick in anti-Asian racism, including harassment that I have experienced myself on the street.

That racism towards Asians and Asian-Americans (myself included–my mother and her family are from Taichung, Taiwan) really is disgusting when you get down to the nitty-gritty. I keep telling this to my friends that I have talked to on FB and whatnot.

So you're saying that, when people claimed China's government was under-reporting the numbers, it was because they were racist against ethnic Chinese people?  Or are you saying it caused other people to be racist against ethnic Chinese people?

2. Inability to help others. Who was sending help when Italy was the first hot spot? China and Russia, of all places. What did the US do to help? A friend in need..

Samaritan's Purse sent a field hospital to Cremona, Italy, before later setting up the one in NYC.

(Note that I understand that Samaritan's Purse is a religious organization. Knowing that posting this is debatably against the Forum Guidelines, my intent here in mentioning this is only to state that an organization in the U.S. did help out in Italy.)

You weren't discussing religion.  All you did was state what a non-profit entity did in response to the epidemic.

[tradephoric]

I've never heard that even once until you just posted it now. There's no question that China lied, or at the very least hid the truth about this virus in the beginning. It doesn't excuse the inaction that led this country to have the highest death rate, but it is most certainly a contributing factor.

America doesn't have the highest death rate.  The UK's 67.55 deaths per 100k is 63% higher than America's 41.45 deaths per 100,000k.

[kalvado]

2. Inability to help others. Who was sending help when Italy was the first hot spot? China and Russia, of all places. What did the US do to help? A friend in need...

Samaritan's Purse sent a field hospital to Cremona, Italy, before later setting up the one in NYC.

(Note that I understand that Samaritan's Purse is a religious organization. Knowing that posting this is debatably against the Forum Guidelines, my intent here in mentioning this is only to state that an organization in the U.S. did help out in Italy.)

If you will, it is about large scale recovery operations - US seemingly didn't respond properly to Katrina in NO or, arguably, Maria in PR as well - so this is a pattern. Single religious organization certainly doesn't have resources anywhere close to what largest economy of the world would.

[bandit957]

I can't believe Connecticut had only 20 cases today. Twenty.

[hotdogPi]

I can't believe Connecticut had only 20 cases today. Twenty.

They had 11 on June 18, 27 on June 22, and 14 on June 24 (with -1594 tests). I think they're data adjustments.

[kalvado]

So you're saying that, when people claimed China's government was under-reporting the numbers, it was because they were racist against ethnic Chinese people?  Or are you saying it caused other people to be racist against ethnic Chinese people?

I am saying that there was a lot of "it cannot happen here!" attitude, which found its way into CDC documents - and which led to uncontrolled growth of first wave in US.

[SEWIGuy]

*  This pandemic represents a major blow to US soft power, since the dismantling of the overseas medical liaison system is now and will increasingly be seen as an unforced error.  The issue is not that China lied about covid-19 to save face:  the issue is rather that we knew they might do so, because we had experience with their having done it in the past (notably with SARS in 2003), yet we went ahead and stopped funding our own eyes on the situation.  This tells our allies, some of whom were relying on the umbrella provided by our medical liaisons, that the US cannot be trusted to look after their interests even when it is in the US' own selfish interest to do so.  In fact, I think the situation is likely to be even worse--there is bound to be deep and lasting resentment in allied countries at US inaction poisoning their own pandemic responses.

I hear a lot about "china lied" - nothing concrete. So far my impression is US racism extends way beyond issue of white-and-black.
Biggest blows to US soft power are self-inflicted.
1. Inability to respond to a challenge. Bad in 2008, even worse in 2020.
2. Inability to help others. Who was sending help when Italy was the first hot spot? China and Russia, of all places. What did the US do to help? A friend in need...
3. Of course, medical liason... How well surveillance systems worked within US and what makes you think it would work any better outside of the US?

Look, the whole "China lied" issue may have been a semi-decent excuse back in March and April.

But it is an absolutely unjustifiable excuse now.  We have had plenty of time to adjust, and had actually been doing a decent job, but then we decided we were done and it's exploded on us again.  Can't blame China for that.

[kphoger]

So you're saying that, when people claimed China's government was under-reporting the numbers, it was because they were racist against ethnic Chinese people?  Or are you saying it caused other people to be racist against ethnic Chinese people?

I am saying that there was a lot of "it cannot happen here!" attitude, which found its way into CDC documents - and which led to uncontrolled growth of first wave in US.

Which, again, has nothing to do with "China lied".

[kphoger]

Look, the whole "China lied" issue may have been a semi-decent excuse back in March and April.

But it is an absolutely unjustifiable excuse now.  We have had plenty of time to adjust, and had actually been doing a decent job, but then we decided we were done and it's exploded on us again.  Can't blame China for that.

Actually, I haven't really been hearing much about China at all in at least a month.  Not about under-reporting the numbers, not about the virus leaking out of a lab, not about hygiene, not about anything.  This thread is the first I've heard about China in quite some time.

[kalvado]

Look, the whole "China lied" issue may have been a semi-decent excuse back in March and April.

But it is an absolutely unjustifiable excuse now.  We have had plenty of time to adjust, and had actually been doing a decent job, but then we decided we were done and it's exploded on us again.  Can't blame China for that.

Actually, I haven't really been hearing much about China at all in at least a month.  Not about under-reporting the numbers, not about the virus leaking out of a lab, not about hygiene, not about anything.  This thread is the first I've heard about China in quite some time.

Totalitarian government doesn't argue with those who refuse to wear mask - so CHina is doing fairly well from what I hear,  working hard to supply US with masks which  largest economy in the world unable to make and population unable to use...
An outbreak of plague in Inner Mongolia (as well as Mongolia) is another story. 

[74/171FAN]

If you will, it is about large scale recovery operations - US seemingly didn't respond properly to Katrina in NO or, arguably, Maria in PR as well - so this is a pattern. Single religious organization certainly doesn't have resources anywhere close to what largest economy of the world would.

I agree in that the response from the US government itself to these events has been lacking. 

Beyond that, I do not remember a huge push from the US to help people in Puerto Rico after Maria even compared to the push to help people in New Orleans after Katrina.  After Katrina, I could not even tell you how many nonprofit organizations helped clean up New Orleans.  In my circles as a teenager, I heard about trips to Louisiana to help clean up for up two years after the event.  (For the record, I did not go on any of those.)

[kalvado]

If you will, it is about large scale recovery operations - US seemingly didn't respond properly to Katrina in NO or, arguably, Maria in PR as well - so this is a pattern. Single religious organization certainly doesn't have resources anywhere close to what largest economy of the world would.

I agree in that the response from the US government itself to these events has been lacking. 

Beyond that, I do not remember a huge push from the US to help people in Puerto Rico after Maria even compared to the push to help people in New Orleans after Katrina.  After Katrina, I could not even tell you how many nonprofit organizations helped clean up New Orleans.  In my circles as a teenager, I heard about trips to Louisiana to help clean up for up two years after the event.  (For the record, I did not go on any of those.)

NY governor was trying to make national stage (personal take on it) by helping PR - with things like restoration of power grid... 

[J N Winkler]

I hear a lot about "china lied" - nothing concrete. So far my impression is US racism extends way beyond issue of white-and-black.

Yes--racism comes in rainbow colors in this country.

Biggest blows to US soft power are self-inflicted.

Agreed.

Of course, medical liaison... How well surveillance systems worked within US and what makes you think it would work any better outside of the US?

There are no guarantees it would have worked, but it would have given us much more of a fighting chance.  To win the game, you have to go to the locker room and suit up.

[Scott5114]

The idea that we wouldn't have already had a recession with 135,000 consumers suddenly removed from the economy over the space of five months is absurd. If your primary concern is the economy, you should favor virus containment issues, because the dead spend no money.

I have yet to see a store actually enforce a mask requirement.  For example, my parents and I went to Chili's on Saturday, and a party of about six people came in and not one of them was wearing a mask.  Even though the restaurant is required by ordinance to require all guests to wear masks, restaurant staff did not bar their entry.  Rather, they promptly seated their six paying guests in a booth and took their order.  And I haven't been in a single grocery store or home improvement store in the past week where every single customer was wearing a mask, yet I also haven't seen the staff kicking anybody out.

Not a store, but the casino I work at has security posted at the entrance that will not let you in without a mask. (If you don't have one on you, they will happily sell you a disposable one for $3.) If you take your mask off inside when not eating/drinking/smoking, security will tell you that you  have to put it on, and refusing to do so is grounds for getting kicked out and probably banned. Most of the cashiers will not redeem your tickets or chips if you are not properly wearing a mask.

Why anyone is gambling in a pandemic in the first place, though, is beyond me.

[NWI_Irish96]

Why anyone is gambling in a pandemic at any time at games at are overwhelmingly in the house's favor in the first place, though, is beyond me.

[hotdogPi]

Why anyone is gambling in a pandemic at any time at games at are overwhelmingly in the house's favor in the first place, though, is beyond me.

Casino games are MUCH closer to fair than lottery tickets are. I would not call it "overwhelmingly" at all.

[NWI_Irish96]

Why anyone is gambling in a pandemic at any time at games at are overwhelmingly in the house's favor in the first place, though, is beyond me.

Casino games are MUCH closer to fair than lottery tickets are. I would not call it "overwhelmingly" at all.

If you're going to repeat the activity for any significant amount of time, a 3% house edge for a 10 second event is pretty overwhelming.

Lotteries are of course worse odds, but you can have fun playing $5-10 on the lottery once or twice a week. Hard to have much fun at a casino on $10-20.

[LM117]

I have yet to see a store actually enforce a mask requirement.

Same in my area. No social distancing, either.