Interstate 93 Signing Work

[southshore720]

With all these ridiculous delays, I would certainly hope that the contractors don't receive the full payment of their bid...  They practically threw their timeline right out the window on this one.

[mass_citizen]

With all these ridiculous delays, I would certainly hope that the contractors don't receive the full payment of their bid...  They practically threw their timeline right out the window on this one.

yeah, most likely theyre going to receive MORE than they bid since i'm sure theyre claiming these delays are not their fault and are due to latent conditions.

[bob7374]

With all these ridiculous delays, I would certainly hope that the contractors don't receive the full payment of their bid...  They practically threw their timeline right out the window on this one.

yeah, most likely theyre going to receive MORE than they bid since i'm sure theyre claiming these delays are not their fault and are due to latent conditions.

Well, it looks like there will be some interesting things to see sign-wise once the project is complete. I contacted the MassDOT records office (thanks for the tip, Roadman) and received copies of all the plans in 49 separate TIF files. After briefly looking through most of them, the most interesting things (that have not been done yet) I've found are:
1. In addition to the new I-93/US 1 guide/paddle signs at entrance ramps, most of which have been installed, the plans indicate they are to install standalone MA 3 North or South trailblazer signs at least at the most important SE Expressway ramps as well (including additional Jct MA 3 signs both ways at the Granite Ave interchange).
2. The reassurance markers to be put up north of exit 7 will have all 3 route shields on one post (suggesting the couple new I-93 South signs put up a couple months ago are not part of the contract work).
3. As indicated by Roadman, the left-hand signs northbound at the Braintree split (Exit 7) will only have I-93 and US 1. North MA 3 trailblazers will be put up on the left support posts. The northbound signs are also not going to have any diagrammatic features, only the southbound signs will and Providence, RI is the only control city for I-93/US 1 South.
4. There will be new warning signs put up at 3 miles and 2 miles out in addition to the existing 1 mile indicating height and truck restrictions for the Big Dig Tunnel.
5. A new I-90 1 1/2 mile advance sign will be placed in the vicinity of the Columbia Rd off-ramp northbound.
6. The signs northbound after Exit 15 put up for the Big Dig will not be replaced but they will be moved onto new support structures.
7. The Exit 15 Columbia Rd control 'cities' are now going to be Dorchester and S. Boston in both directions (the current JFK Library text going south is on a removable panel with the new destinations underneath).
8. There are no indications on the plans that changes are to be made to the signs on the MA 3 North ramp from Washington St that were not swapped out during the MA 3 signing project, nor that US 1 or MA 3 shields or trailblazers will be added to the current signs.
9. The project will also not replace the current overhead exit signage for I-93 on MA 24 NB nor for the MA 37 interchange (which means the button copy I-93 and I-95 shields will remain).

If anyone would like copies of some of the plans, I have a list of what's on each sheet I can forward, particularly if you would like only certain interchanges diagrams or sign only plans.

[mass_citizen]

interesting that much effort is made to include the state route designation (MA 3) on trail blazers/reassurance assemblies on this interstate route whereas MA 128 is intentionally left out of the new I-95 sign work being done. Especially since more people would be looking for signs on how to get to MA 128 then they would the SE expressway/I-93 portion of MA 3. Conspiracy maybe by anti-128 traffic engineers at MADOT/FHWA?

also curious that the MA 37 interchange was excluded, considering its right in the middle of the project limits. Do they intend to replace that signage as part of a standalone project?

[PHLBOS]

interesting that much effort is made to include the state route designation (MA 3) on trail blazers/reassurance assemblies on this interstate route whereas MA 128 is intentionally left out of the new I-95 sign work being done.

MA 128 shields are still being erected (along w/I-95 shields) for the trailblazer/reassurance markers.  I've seen some new signs along the Peabody-Burlington stretch. 

To my knowledge, any existing MA 128 trailblazer assemblies at the various entrance ramps will likley remain.  Roadman can confirm/correct this.

[roadman]

Correct PHLBOS.  Current MassDOT policy is to provide trailblazer assemblies for MA 128 at entrance ramps along the I-95/128 overlap section.

[southshore720]

Why no diagrammatics northbound for Exit 7?  It's a major split!  Will the final NB signbridge before the split contain one arrow-per-lane BGS panel (the new generation BGS with the upward facing arrows), or separate BGS panels with downward facing arrows?  It's a tricky signage situation in that area because there needs to be advanced signage for MA 3's Exit 19-18...

[mass_citizen]

Correct PHLBOS.  Current MassDOT policy is to provide trailblazer assemblies for MA 128 at entrance ramps along the I-95/128 overlap section.

I stand corrected! Long live 128!   

[PHLBOS]

Why no diagrammatics northbound for Exit 7?  It's a major split!

I was wondering that too; especially since the through-routes (I-93/US 1 North) are making the sharp left. 

It's a tricky signage situation in that area because there needs to be advanced signage for MA 3's Exit 19-18...

Assuming that the existing control destinations of Boston and Cape Cod carry-over onto the new BGS'; a diagramatic panel could be small/narrow enough to allow for that advance-Exit 19-18 BGS for MA 3 South to be erected alongside it.

Will the final NB signbridge before the split contain one arrow-per-lane BGS panel (the new generation BGS with the upward facing arrows), or separate BGS panels with downward facing arrows?

IMHO, I hope not.  The more I look at those layouts; the less I like them.  The upward arrows for the straight-through traffic (while I realize the intent of those) just look wrong and the BGS panels become just as tall if not taller than a digrammatic BGS.

My guess is that MassDOT will just use the same format as the current BGS' in advance of the split: use LEFT LANES label for I-93/US 1 North and downward arrows for MA 3 South.

[roadman]

The replacement signs on I-93 NB for the Exit 7 MA 3 'split' will not be APL panels.

[Alps]

The replacement signs on I-93 NB for the Exit 7 MA 3 'split' will not be APL panels.

Unless lane balance is changing, APL is not possible because there's no option lane.

[bob7374]

Why no diagrammatics northbound for Exit 7?  It's a major split!  Will the final NB signbridge before the split contain one arrow-per-lane BGS panel (the new generation BGS with the upward facing arrows), or separate BGS panels with downward facing arrows?  It's a tricky signage situation in that area because there needs to be advanced signage for MA 3's Exit 19-18...

Here's an excerpt of the sign plans for Exit 7 on I-93 Northbound:

I have posted the plans for the southbound Exit 7 signs and another set of plans at the bottom of my latest blog posting covering new I-95 signage (nothing new to report for actual signs on I-93, unfortunately):
http://surewhynotnow.blogspot.com/2013/10/i-95-signage-update-and-more.html

[southshore720]

It would've been nice if the exit tab said:
MA 3
EXITS 19-18
as not to confuse those unfamiliar with the stretch, but I guess beggars can't be choosers.

Thanks for the maps and good work on your blog, Bob!

[PHLBOS]

It would've been nice if the exit tab said:
MA 3
EXITS 19-18
as not to confuse those unfamiliar with the stretch, but I guess beggars can't be choosers.

Given the fact that the Exit 19-18 BGS is situated next to the Exit 7/MA 3 South exit BGS & located just to the right of it; it should be fairly intuitive even for a novice.  Plus not everybody goes by nor refers to the interchanges by exit number in the Greater Boston area.

[spooky]

It would've been nice if the exit tab said:
MA 3
EXITS 19-18
as not to confuse those unfamiliar with the stretch, but I guess beggars can't be choosers.

Given the fact that the Exit 19-18 BGS is situated next to the Exit 7/MA 3 South exit BGS & located just to the right of it; it should be fairly intuitive even for a novice.  Plus not everybody goes by nor refers to the interchanges by exit number in the Greater Boston area.

There is an existing 3/4 mile advance BGS for Exit 19-18 that has an exit tab with the number removed. I always assumed that was to avoid confusion over the exit numbering.

[NE2]

There is an existing 3/4 mile advance BGS for Exit 19-18 that has an exit tab with the number removed. I always assumed that was to avoid confusion over the exit numbering.

The exit 7 sign at the split has greenout behind the 7, but exit 18 doesn't have any. But the tabs are too wide for the numbers (but not wide enough for 19-18). Perhaps the signs date back to when they were exits 69S (?) and 26 (but was it changed to 18 before Burgin Parkway was built?).

[PHLBOS]

There is an existing 3/4 mile advance BGS for Exit 19-18 that has an exit tab with the number removed. I always assumed that was to avoid confusion over the exit numbering.

The exit 7 sign at the split has greenout behind the 7, but exit 18 doesn't have any. But the tabs are too wide for the numbers (but not wide enough for 19-18). Perhaps the signs date back to when they were exits 69S (?) and 26 (but was it changed to 18 before Burgin Parkway was built?).

If it's the BGS' I'm thinking of, with the tab placed at the center-top, it was erected during the 1980s when the Southeast Expressway was overhauled and just prior to I-93's (Expressway & 128) exit numbers changing.  The tabs were blank for about a year after they were first erected.

http://goo.gl/maps/rLqjk

MA 3's exit numbers, south of the Expressway changed a few years prior to the Expressway overhaul (& the fore-mentioned I-93's numbers changing) so the DPW was not going to place any EXIT 26 tabs (for Exit 19-18) in that area in the 1980s.

As far as the exit tabs  are concerned, it appears that the numerals are taller than the tabs themselves.  Some of MassDPW's exit tabs from the 1970s featured exit numbers at the same heights as the EXIT text.  It's possible that these tabs were fabricated under those specs.

Clearly, the 7s were placed too close to the EXIT text; same could be said for the EXIT 18 tabs.

Since it was likely known within the DPW's inner circle that the exit numbers along the Expressway and now-officially-former-MA 128 were changing (or going to be changed) following the 80s Expressway reconstruction project; no effort nor provisions were made to show the old 128 exit numbering on these then-new BGS'.

BTW, 128's original Exit 69 was for MA 3 North not South.  MA 3 South from then-128 South was the through-route.  Addtionally, MA 128 piggybacked along MA 3 down to the MA 228 (old MA 128) interchange in Hingham until the late 1960s.

The old 60s-era BGS' featuring large route shields and cardinals occupying the entire left sides of the BGS boards sported the old exit tabs.

The old BGS' read:

      EXIT 69
NORTH        Quincy
    3           Boston

and

SOUTH       Weymouth
    3           Cape Cod

Not sure how the BGS for MA 3 South originally read prior to the 60s 128 truncation in terms of route shields.

[bob7374]

There is an existing 3/4 mile advance BGS for Exit 19-18 that has an exit tab with the number removed. I always assumed that was to avoid confusion over the exit numbering.

The exit 7 sign at the split has greenout behind the 7, but exit 18 doesn't have any. But the tabs are too wide for the numbers (but not wide enough for 19-18). Perhaps the signs date back to when they were exits 69S (?) and 26 (but was it changed to 18 before Burgin Parkway was built?).

If it's the BGS' I'm thinking of, with the tab placed at the center-top, it was erected during the 1980s when the Southeast Expressway was overhauled and just prior to I-93's (Expressway & 128) exit numbers changing.  The tabs were blank for about a year after they were first erected.

http://goo.gl/maps/rLqjk

MA 3's exit numbers, south of the Expressway changed a few years prior to the Expressway overhaul (& the fore-mentioned I-93's numbers changing) so the DPW was not going to place any EXIT 26 tabs (for Exit 19-18) in that area in the 1980s.

As far as the exit tabs  are concerned, it appears that the numerals are taller than the tabs themselves.  Some of MassDPW's exit tabs from the 1970s featured exit numbers at the same heights as the EXIT text.  It's possible that these tabs were fabricated under those specs.

Clearly, the 7s were placed too close to the EXIT text; same could be said for the EXIT 18 tabs.

Since it was likely known within the DPW's inner circle that the exit numbers along the Expressway and now-officially-former-MA 128 were changing (or going to be changed) following the 80s Expressway reconstruction project; no effort nor provisions were made to show the old 128 exit numbering on these then-new BGS'.

BTW, 128's original Exit 69 was for MA 3 North not South.  MA 3 South from then-128 South was the through-route.  Addtionally, MA 128 piggybacked along MA 3 down to the MA 228 (old MA 128) interchange in Hingham until the late 1960s.

The old 60s-era BGS' featuring large route shields and cardinals occupying the entire left sides of the BGS boards sported the old exit tabs.

The old BGS' read:

      EXIT 69
NORTH        Quincy
    3           Boston

and

SOUTH       Weymouth
    3           Cape Cod

Not sure how the BGS for MA 3 South originally read prior to the 60s 128 truncation in terms of route shields.

I can't remember that far back either, but I do remember a green sign after the split and just before merging with 3 South traffic that may have dated back to that time. It stated something like '128 Exit Numbers End. Exits numbers continued from SE Expressway, Next Exit 26.' This was removed when the Washington St interchange was re-worked in the early 1980's. 

[PHLBOS]

Bob7374,

Those fore-mentioned 60s-era BGS' were around until the mid-80s when the Southeast Expressway was completely overhauled.  Personally, I do not recall seeing a 128 Exit Numbers End sign; but then again, I never used that particular ramp until the late-80s.  That sign was likely a hold-over from when MA 128 extended east of the Braintree Split.

[shadyjay]

Another wrinkle to the "portion of Route 128 that isn't 128 any more"....Mass DOT is not helping the case:

http://www.massdot.state.ma.us/highway/main/tabid/1076/ctl/detail/mid/2938/itemid/365/Canton-Milton---Route-128-South-I-93-North---Weekend-paving-work.aspx

On Saturday, October 26, 2013, beginning at 8 AM and continuing through 8 PM, there will be multiple lane closures on the section of Route 128 South/I-93 North in the area between Ponkapoag Trail (Exit 3) and Route 24 (Exit 4) in Milton and Randolph to allow work crews to complete roadway paving operations.

[mass_citizen]

Another wrinkle to the "portion of Route 128 that isn't 128 any more"....Mass DOT is not helping the case:

http://www.massdot.state.ma.us/highway/main/tabid/1076/ctl/detail/mid/2938/itemid/365/Canton-Milton---Route-128-South-I-93-North---Weekend-paving-work.aspx

On Saturday, October 26, 2013, beginning at 8 AM and continuing through 8 PM, there will be multiple lane closures on the section of Route 128 South/I-93 North in the area between Ponkapoag Trail (Exit 3) and Route 24 (Exit 4) in Milton and Randolph to allow work crews to complete roadway paving operations.

LMAO. score 1 for the pro-128 camp!  looks like the PR people at MassDOT have different opinions on 128 than the traffic geeks and fhwa. fine by me- one road, one route. 

[roadman]

Another wrinkle to the "portion of Route 128 that isn't 128 any more"....Mass DOT is not helping the case:

http://www.massdot.state.ma.us/highway/main/tabid/1076/ctl/detail/mid/2938/itemid/365/Canton-Milton---Route-128-South-I-93-North---Weekend-paving-work.aspx

On Saturday, October 26, 2013, beginning at 8 AM and continuing through 8 PM, there will be multiple lane closures on the section of Route 128 South/I-93 North in the area between Ponkapoag Trail (Exit 3) and Route 24 (Exit 4) in Milton and Randolph to allow work crews to complete roadway paving operations.

LMAO. score 1 for the pro-128 camp!  looks like the PR people at MassDOT have different opinions on 128 than the traffic geeks and fhwa. fine by me- one road, one route. 

I see two reasons for this.  First, since the Randolph to Wellelsley project was first proposed in the mid-1970s, it has always been referred to as the "Route 128 "add-a-lane" project, even on the project plans - which refer to the highways as 128/I-95 and 128/I-93.  The PR folks get their info from the project manager, who likely uses the '128' description.

Second, unlike the old MassDPW days where the PR folks were engineers who were given PR training, the current breed of MassDOT PR people, although good at what they do, were mostly brought in from outside media companies.  Not only are they "generalists", but they also have a reporter's mindset which instinctively tells them "The public calls it 128, so we'll call it 128" - irrespective of the fact that, with one exception (a lone trailblazer sign on the S.E. Expressway south at the Braintree split), all traces of the 128 designation (signs, etc) have long since been removed from the highway between Braintree and Canton.

[shadyjay]

Not only are they "generalists", but they also have a reporter's mindset which instinctively tells them "The public calls it 128, so we'll call it 128" - irrespective of the fact that, with one exception (a lone trailblazer sign on the S.E. Expressway south at the Braintree split), all traces of the 128 designation (signs, etc) have long since been removed from the highway between Braintree and Canton.

Even more reason why I-93 should be routed down Route 3 to the Cape.  Then "128" can begin/end at the Braintree split once again.  And exit numbers can be "fudged" to meet up with I-95's future mileage numbers.  Yes, the first exit may be XX instead of 1, but if that's what it takes.... 

With I-93 "proposed" to be extended down MA 24, maybe 128 would pick up the slack between there and I-95.  Or just better yet, call it I-128.  Heck, if CA can do it....

Still find that PR funny, but there are apparently those at MassDOT who refuse to let the old designation die.

[roadman]

In 2004, MassHighway actually considered ending I-93 in Braintree as one option to end the Globe's whining about route numbers, especially the (inaccurate) designation of I-93 south/128 north that the media and the traffic reporters love to use.  The Canton to Braintree highway would have been designated I-595 instead.

After due consideration, AASHTO and FHWA finally nixed the idea, citing the AASHTO "2di should begin/end at another 2di" "rule".  Not sure how'd they react to extending I-93 all the way to the Cape, especially as MA 3 is hardly close to Interstate standards south of Weymouth.

MA 24 south of Raynham suffers the same "doesn't meet Interstate standards" problem, though much worse, so I wouldn't count on an I-93 extension to Fall River in the near future either.  Especially as it seems that the state is starting to put a large effort into the South Coast Rail project, which would make doing a major MA 24 widening project both financially and politically difficult.

[PHLBOS]

In 2004, MassHighway actually considered ending I-93 in Braintree as one option to end the Globe's whining about route numbers, especially the (inaccurate) designation of I-93 south/128 north that the media and the traffic reporters love to use.  The Canton to Braintree highway would have been designated I-595 instead.

Personally, I'm surprised that proposal was even seriously considered; Globe or no Globe.

After due consideration, AASHTO and FHWA finally nixed the idea, citing the AASHTO "2di should begin/end at another 2di" "rule".

And rightly so.  IIRC, that was the whole reason for extending I-93 south of Boston (via the Expressway & 128) to Canton (I-95) in the first place. 

Not sure how'd they react to extending I-93 all the way to the Cape, especially as MA 3 is hardly close to Interstate standards south of Weymouth.

For one thing it would make the Cape Cod destination listings on the Southeast Expressway BGS' more logical with respect to the primary route.