Covid vaccination status?

[kphoger]

They encourage them to join this century. 

Oh, I used to have one.  I divorced it a few months ago.

[JayhawkCO]

They encourage them to join this century. 

Oh, I used to have one.  I divorced it a few months ago.

Don't think I could do it.  So handy for Android Auto in my car (Waze/GMaps/Spotify/Audibile).

Chris

[kphoger]

Don't think I could do it.

That's why I did it.

If you can't quit something–well, that's when you know you need to quit.

[JayhawkCO]

Don't think I could do it.

That's why I did it.

If you can't quit something–well, that's when you know you need to quit.

I guess I understand that, but I guess I liken it to walking.  I could quit doing it, but I imagine a great many things become incredibly inconvenient.

Chris

[Rothman]

I've read that Israel is using an app-based approach to identify those who have been vaccinated, allowing them mask-less into normally off-limits places like gyms and cinemas.

It's chiefly made possible by their centralized health care system. This system has been handling vaccinations, so they have been able to keep track of who has been vaccinated and who has not through a single system.

In the US, such a system is unlikely to ever materialize, so the best we can do is wait until we have herd immunity or same-day vaccination openings (which may signal a reduced interest in vaccinations and the end of mass vaccinations).

Dividing Israel's recent daily case count by population and comparing it to the U.S.' rate shows that Israel's rate is ten times the U.S.' currently -- and quite surprisingly.

[kphoger]

I guess I understand that, but I guess I liken it to walking.  I could quit doing it, but I imagine a great many things become incredibly inconvenient.

You're my age.  Don't you remember the 90s?  For the things I really need a smartphone for, I have a PC.

[Rothman]

I guess I understand that, but I guess I liken it to walking.  I could quit doing it, but I imagine a great many things become incredibly inconvenient.

You're my age.  Don't you remember the 90s?  For the things I really need a smartphone for, I have a PC.

Can't put the PC in your pocket.

I used to think the way you do.  The convenience of a smartphone is life-changing.

[kphoger]

There are very, very few things I need the internet for but can't use a PC for–that is, while I'm out and about.

[webny99]

The best approach is to have one for the convenience, but then not spend your whole life on it. That's a challenging balance.

[JayhawkCO]

There are very, very few things I need the internet for but can't use a PC for–that is, while I'm out and about.

Especially living in a place with more traffic than you have, I honestly do find Google Maps/Waze indispensable.  The other day I went to my part time job, started going the way I always go but then had a hunch to check GMaps and, sure enough, there was an accident ahead that would have made me sit for 25 more minutes in traffic. 

Chris

[kphoger]

The convenience of a smartphone is life-changing.

The best approach is to have one for the convenience, but then not spend your whole life on it. That's a challenging balance.

Yep.  It's a balance I knew ahead of time I wouldn't be able to manage, and I resisted getting a smartphone in the beginning.  Then, recently, I found myself addicted to YouTube and news articles, found myself ignoring my family in the evenings.  I tried setting "rules" for myself, but I failed to keep them.  So I got rid of the darned thing.  My family time has improved, I'm no longer half-irritated by the news, I no longer feel the urge to pick up my phone every few minutes.  It's great.  That is what has been life-changing.

There are very, very few things I need the internet for but can't use a PC for–that is, while I'm out and about.

Especially living in a place with more traffic than you have, I honestly do find Google Maps/Waze indispensable.  The other day I went to my part time job, started going the way I always go but then had a hunch to check GMaps and, sure enough, there was an accident ahead that would have made me sit for 25 more minutes in traffic. 

Sometimes I get stuck in traffic.  When that happens, my route around the jam is generally the same as it's always been, so no big deal.  But I really can't look up, on the fly, how far the jam extends.  But still.  Even if I get home 25 minutes late, as I said, I'm making up that time by actually paying attention to my wife and kids for 25 minutes (and more!) in the evening instead of staring at a little glowing rectangle.

[webny99]

Then, recently, I found myself addicted to YouTube and news articles, found myself ignoring my family in the evenings.  I tried setting "rules" for myself, but I failed to keep them.

I have this problem too, but with the laptop, not the smartphone.

Sometimes I get stuck in traffic.  When that happens, my route around the jam is generally the same as it's always been, so no big deal.  But I really can't look up, on the fly, how far the jam extends.

I tried once to figure out where the traffic jam ended, and had a fender bender because of it. So, I won't be doing that again as a driver.

But I do it all the time as a passenger. I can think of at least two instances - one south of Buffalo due to an accident, and one in rural Minnesota due to road construction - where I suggested a detour and saved a bunch of time.

[kphoger]

But I do it all the time as a passenger. I can think of at least two instances - one south of Buffalo due to an accident, and one in rural Minnesota due to road construction - where I suggested a detour and saved a bunch of time.

I've done that in Minnesota as well.  Except that it was before smartphones.  Just whipped out the road atlas and plotted a new course.

[index]

I now have an appointment scheduled in Wilmington, NC on the 19th to get my jab. Three hour drive. It was either that or I waited until July, because all the appointments around here were booked all the way through June.

[kphoger]

My wife's arm is still sore, two days later–but only while doing certain motions.  Taking her left arm out of a sweatshirt is brutal for her.  But Advil is keeping her going.  And still zero other side-effects.

I hadn't mentioned this before, but it isn't quite accurate to say my wife has zero other side-effects.  The tip of her tongue has been tingling ever since she got the shot four days ago.

Last night at bedtime, she had arm pain at the injection spot again–except that, this time, it wasn't typical muscle pain that gets worse as you tighten the muscle, but more of a "deep down on the inside" kind of pain.  She had to get up and take Advil, because she couldn't lie on that side otherwise.

And yeah, her tongue still tingles.

[webny99]

I can think of at least two instances ... one in rural Minnesota due to road construction - where I suggested a detour and saved a bunch of time.

I've done that in Minnesota as well.  Except that it was before smartphones.  Just whipped out the road atlas and plotted a new course.

We're veering off topic here, but anyways...

Now I'm curious if I would have been able to suggest the same route with a road atlas. I'll have to check later. The construction was south of Owatonna, and this is the route we took to get around it*. It was one of those annoying lane closures that backs traffic up for miles in the summer, and I know we saved a bunch of time because the vehicle we were traveling with stuck it out, and ended up arriving back in the Twin Cities about 15 minutes after us.

The nice thing about Google Maps that a road atlas can't offer is that you can tell approximately where the jam stops and starts. In this case, I could tell it was going to be slow going for at least several miles, which factored into the decision.



*The ramp from US 14 WB to I-35 NB was closed, hence the triple loop at that interchange.

[kphoger]

Now I'm curious if I would have been able to suggest the same route with a road atlas. I'll have to check later. The construction was south of Owatonna, and this is the route we took to get around it*. It was one of those annoying lane closures that backs traffic up for miles in the summer, and I know we saved a bunch of time because the vehicle we were traveling with stuck it out, and ended up arriving back in the Twin Cities about 15 minutes after us.

The nice thing about Google Maps that a road atlas can't offer is that you can tell approximately where the jam stops and starts. In this case, I could tell it was going to be slow going for at least several miles, which factored into the decision.



*The ramp from US 14 WB to I-35 NB was closed, hence the triple loop at that interchange.

Oh yeah, I kind of figured you were talking about Owatonna.  I remember that road construction.  Blech!

In my case, it was I-494 traffic, while we were heading from Waverly back to Chicagoland.  I did one of those triple-loop-ramp maneuvers at I-35W (because it was a split-second decision to go south there), shot over from Medford to near Rochester, and followed I-90 from there.  One huge bypass of I-494/I-94.

Here is the approximate route, although the exact combination of county/state routes escapes me.  It was quite enjoyable, especially compared to the typical I-494/I-94 traffic.  And that makes me wonder if I ever would have driven/roadgeeked those roads if we'd had smartphones back then, considering that we probably "wasted" several minutes after all was said and done.

[webny99]

Now I'm curious if I would have been able to suggest the same route with a road atlas. I'll have to check later. The construction was south of Owatonna, and this is the route we took to get around it ...

The answer to this would appear to be yes, although Google Maps certainly offers a bit more clarity and precision than this:

In my case, it was I-494 traffic, while we were heading from Waverly back to Chicagoland.  I did one of those triple-loop-ramp maneuvers at I-35W (because it was a split-second decision to go south there), shot over from Medford to near Rochester, and followed I-90 from there.  One huge bypass of I-494/I-94.

That makes sense. US 52 is a good alternate too (in fact, I-90/US 52 vs. I-90/I-94 is almost a toss-up when heading to the southern suburbs). But if the traffic was at I-35W, US 52 wouldn't have been much help.

Here is the approximate route, although the exact combination of county/state routes escapes me.  It was quite enjoyable, especially compared to the typical I-494/I-94 traffic.  And that makes me wonder if I ever would have driven/roadgeeked those roads if we'd had smartphones back then, considering that we probably "wasted" several minutes after all was said and done.

+1 for the southeastern Minnesota countryside. MN 50 is a personal favorite (there's so many great views along there that every one I find, I can't remember if it's the one I specifically wanted to commit to memory).

[kphoger]

That makes sense. US 52 is a good alternate too (in fact, I-90/US 52 vs. I-90/I-94 is almost a toss-up when heading to the southern suburbs). But if the traffic was at I-35W, US 52 wouldn't have been much help.

Well, it unfolded like this:

  1.  Traffic jam
  2.  Split-second decision to bail and take I-35W south
  3.  Get out the atlas and plot a different route

So bailing happened before a new route was chosen.

[jakeroot]

-- Late to the party --

I've read that Israel is using an app-based approach to identify those who have been vaccinated, allowing them mask-less into normally off-limits places like gyms and cinemas.

So what about people like me, who don't have a smartphone?

I don't think other options would be as secure, at least for the time being. I think the app provides some level of verification not achievable with a piece of paper.

Otherwise: having a smartphone clearly grants you some level of privilege. Like a car in a rural area: it costs money but it makes things easy.

[Scott5114]

The idea of having a smartphone app for vaccination verification is lame as all hell. You mean to say a fancy Spirographed piece of paper is enough to prove I own a car, and a printed piece of plastic is enough to prove I can drive it, but we have to have a piece of software involved to prove vaccination?

Here, I'm going to quote someone smarter than me about the problems with that:

Without the federal government leading the way, there will be chaos as there will be dozens of different incompatible standards and methods of proof. If each state, some cities, and some companies develop their own smartphone app, how are airport officials in Hawaii going to tell real ones from fake ones? A patchwork of local solutions will invite uncertainty and fraud.

Further, not everyone has a modern smartphone running the current version of the operating system. Some people don't have a smartphone at all and they tend to be poorer and less white than the population at large. They will not be happy to be told they can't take the bus to Grandma unless they buy a modern smartphone and put some app they don't understand on it. So right off the bat, any kind of digital solution will discriminate against people who already face many barriers.

Also, people with an older phone that can't run the app won't be happy. Telling the app developers to make sure the app will run on every smartphone sold in the past 15 years will get the response: (1) that is impossible, and (2) unless we restrict the app to very recent phones we can't guarantee the security of the system since the security features we need were introduced only in version x of the operating system a couple of years ago.

The next problem is how to get the "proof" into the app. Vaccinations are being given by a large number of different organizations, from pharmacies to public health clinics to universities to private business concerns to municipal and county officials. All of them run different software and all of them will have to be updated to allow them to work with the new app (if there is just one) or the 50 new apps (if every state makes its own). Getting this to work properly could take months or maybe even years.

Then there are privacy concerns. Ideally, someone who shows up for a vaccination gets the passport put on the phone, and then the data is deleted from the source. Then it can't be hacked at the source. But some people will forget to bring their phones or lose their phones and will want to get their vaccination passports later on their new phones. This means the vaccination organizations will have to maintain the data, with the risk of it being hacked and exposed. There are also legal issues here as there are tight laws that organizations have to obey when handling health-related data. These laws were not written with the intention of storing confidential data on poorly managed unsecured devices.

Tanenbaum doesn't even note the cost of setting up all this digital infrastructure, and how all of it will quickly become obsolete after the pandemic ends. Personally, I think the solution, if we have to have one, is to just have the Bureau of Engraving and Printing print a bunch of fancy paper certificates for the CDC, with all the bells and whistles a $100 bill has. If anyone forges them, charge them under whatever sort of forgery/counterfeiting statute makes the most sense.

[hbelkins]

There should not be any need for any sort of vaccine verification, be it digital or physical. This reeks of "show me your papers."

[bm7]

Is it even possible currently to verify if someone has been vaccinated or not? Are the names and information of all those who have been vaccinated, no matter where in the country it was done, stored in a database somewhere?

[Scott5114]

Based on the procedures the nurses went through, I would be surprised if my vaccination wasn't recorded in a Oklahoma State Department of Health (and probably Pontotoc County Health Department) database. The problem is that if I travel to another state or country, how do they get access to the relevant OSDH record?

[oscar]

When I got my first vaccine shot, I got a card showing when I got it, and when I'm due for the second shot. It's not wallet-size, and didn't fold gracefully when I tried to put it in my wallet, so it seems not to have been intended for that purpose. It also doesn't look terribly forgery- or tamper-resistant.

I'll try to get a replacement at the second shot, and put the new unfolded card inside my just-reissued passport, in case I need it for travel purposes. But I doubt it will be much help with border agents, if they demand proof of vaccination.