People drive too slow in the left lane!

[kphoger]

How about the second lane from left on an 8 lane freeway? From my experience, people seem to just treat that lane as another left lane. I went 61 in a 55 in that lane coming home from a trip once, and I was getting honked at and flashed at by drivers approaching from behind (yes, I moved over). IMO the only lane that should be used for passing only is the far left lane. For the other leftward lanes, you should be moving faster, but you shouldn't have to move over for faster vehicles so long as your speed is reasonable.

If a dozen faster-moving cars is coming up from behind, then why should all twelve of them have to squeeze into that leftmost lane just because you believe that's the only lane you're not entitled to be in?  Wouldn't it make much more sense to give those twelve cars as many passing lanes as possible?

Did I not just explain that I did, in fact move over after the third car that had to change lanes for me?

Actually, what you explained is that you didn't move over until drivers were honking and flashing at you, and it apparently irritated you enough that you needed to post about it on here.



I'm beginning to wonder if |Mike2357| and |interstatefan990| have even done any driving outside of an urban area, or if they think their little sliver of the world is just how things are.  Closely-spaced exits, multiple lanes in each direction of a freeway:  these are things that strike me as distinctly urban.

But why someone wouldn't keep to the rightmost lane here, for example, is totally beyond me.  Or here or here or here or here.  Or even this eight-lane freeway.

[jeffandnicole]

Roadways like the NJ Turnpike (and, well, nearly no other roadway than the Turnpike) give this stuff a lot of though.  Why build a roadway 6 lanes wide and only 1 left lane, when they can build 2 roadways 3 lanes wide and have 2 left lanes. There's fewer lanes for faster motorists to swerve around when their fellow motorists decide they kinda-sorta want to respect the speed limit, or do respect the limit, yet could care less about the numerous other laws put in place for motorists to obey.

When the NJ Turnpike was designing the most recent expansion south of 8A, they gave it considerable thought about designing it as a single roadway in each direction, or maintaining the dual-dual roadway.  This is especially true south of Interchange 7A, where their own analysis determined that 6 lanes wasn't needed. But in the end, they decided to spend the money (and thus, raise the toll rates even higher) to go with the dual-dual roadway, no doubt in part to limit the weaving that could take place on roadways 5 and 6 lanes wide.

[webny99]

I'm beginning to wonder if |Mike2357| and |interstatefan990| have even done any driving outside of an urban area, or if they think their little sliver of the world is just how things are.  Closely-spaced exits, multiple lanes in each direction of a freeway:  these are things that strike me as distinctly urban.

But why someone wouldn't keep to the rightmost lane here, for example, is totally beyond me.  Or here or here or here or here.  Or even this eight-lane freeway.

Maybe a good discussion for this thread: https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=29827.0

If by "multiple lanes" you mean three or more, then yes, that is generally associated with urban areas. But the reason one's perception might be shaped by where one lives is that six lane freeways outside of urban areas are a lot more common in some states/regions than others.

The entire state of New York has just a couple of examples: I-87 west of Harriman State Park and north of Albany, arguably part of I-495 on Long Island, and that's about it. So, some of us simply assume that if it's six lanes, it's urban, while others have a lot more experience with rural six lane freeways (where it's generally pretty easy to use the right lane as the travel lane).

[Mike2357]

Roadways like the NJ Turnpike (and, well, nearly no other roadway than the Turnpike) give this stuff a lot of though.  Why build a roadway 6 lanes wide and only 1 left lane, when they can build 2 roadways 3 lanes wide and have 2 left lanes. There's fewer lanes for faster motorists to swerve around when their fellow motorists decide they kinda-sorta want to respect the speed limit, or do respect the limit, yet could care less about the numerous other laws put in place for motorists to obey.

When the NJ Turnpike was designing the most recent expansion south of 8A, they gave it considerable thought about designing it as a single roadway in each direction, or maintaining the dual-dual roadway.  This is especially true south of Interchange 7A, where their own analysis determined that 6 lanes wasn't needed. But in the end, they decided to spend the money (and thus, raise the toll rates even higher) to go with the dual-dual roadway, no doubt in part to limit the weaving that could take place on roadways 5 and 6 lanes wide.

Is it just me, or does the spur for ALL vehicles tend to have far less traffic than the car only lanes?

[jeffandnicole]

Roadways like the NJ Turnpike (and, well, nearly no other roadway than the Turnpike) give this stuff a lot of though.  Why build a roadway 6 lanes wide and only 1 left lane, when they can build 2 roadways 3 lanes wide and have 2 left lanes. There's fewer lanes for faster motorists to swerve around when their fellow motorists decide they kinda-sorta want to respect the speed limit, or do respect the limit, yet could care less about the numerous other laws put in place for motorists to obey.

When the NJ Turnpike was designing the most recent expansion south of 8A, they gave it considerable thought about designing it as a single roadway in each direction, or maintaining the dual-dual roadway.  This is especially true south of Interchange 7A, where their own analysis determined that 6 lanes wasn't needed. But in the end, they decided to spend the money (and thus, raise the toll rates even higher) to go with the dual-dual roadway, no doubt in part to limit the weaving that could take place on roadways 5 and 6 lanes wide.

Is it just me, or does the spur for ALL vehicles tend to have far less traffic than the car only lanes?

Spur? Or do you mean the outer roadway (normally known as the truck lanes)?  I find that tends to have less traffic, especially on the weekends when car drivers prefer to stay in the car only lanes.

[kphoger]

And a quick heads up: "8-lane freeway"  means eight lanes of traffic, four in each direction.

It might seem at first glance that "two-lane highway" might mean two lanes in each direction, and that it's just as commonsense.

But, then, if that's how someone classifies a road, then how does he classify something like this?

[interstatefan990]

I think there's a lot of confusion about what I was initially saying, which is causing people to warp my stated opinions and experiences into something they're not (looking at you here, kphoger), which I'm not at liberty to respond to. I will restate more clearly what I have said:

• I was driving back from a trip, on a 8-lane freeway with moderate traffic just after exiting an urban area. I was in the second lane from left with a wide open left lane going about 61-62 with a 55 mph limit. Three cars approached from behind, all of them either flashing their brights or quickly tapping the horn. No one had to change lanes to pass me besides those three. After the third car, I realized I was moving slower than the flow of traffic and instantly changed lanes to the right. I did not get "angry"  at them, and I'm guessing they got just slightly frustrated with me. No big deal.


• For a 6-lane freeway or wider, if you are not in the far left lane and are moving with the flow of traffic for the lane you're in, it's okay for a car to occasionally have to change lanes to pass you, so long as it's not happening too often. I know we all want a perfect world where all slower drivers will get out of your way, but unfortunately that's not the reality. The only lane that is for passing only is the far left lane. If you are moving slower than the flow of traffic for the lane you're in, then you should be moving rightwards to a lane that is more appropriate for your speed.
  
  That's it.

[NWI_Irish96]

• I was driving back from a trip, on a 8-lane freeway with moderate traffic just after exiting an urban area. I was in the second lane from left with a wide open left lane going about 61-62 with a 55 mph limit. Three cars approached from behind, all of them either flashing their brights or quickly tapping the horn. No one had to change lanes to pass me besides those three. After the third car, I realized I was moving slower than the flow of traffic and instantly changed lanes to the right. I did not get "angry"  at them, and I'm guessing they got just slightly frustrated with me. No big deal.

That's it. [/li]
[/list]

My point is that if you weren't passing cars in the next lane to your right, there was no reason for you to be in that lane. You forced other cars to brake quickly and/or pass you on the right, both of which are not safe.

[kphoger]

The only lane that is for passing only is the far left lane.

Depends on where you are.  For example, your statement is false in the state of Washington.  In that state, if you aren't moving faster than the flow of traffic, it is illegal to camp out in the middle lane.

WA requires all drivers to use the right lane on freeways unless passing. Middle lane hogging would not be permitted unless also passing. Far left is for passing those in the middle lane, who ideally are going slightly faster than traffic in the right lane.

[...]

Upon all roadways having two or more lanes for traffic moving in the same direction, all vehicles shall be driven in the right-hand lane then available for traffic, except (a) when overtaking and passing another vehicle proceeding in the same direction, (b) when traveling at a speed greater than the traffic flow, (c) when moving left to allow traffic to merge, or (d) when preparing for a left turn at an intersection, exit, or into a private road or driveway when such left turn is legally permitted.

[Mike2357]

Sometimes it's not just about whether you are passing or not, but more comfortable having no cars in front of you. It gets tiresome having to change lanes constantly to pass every yutz going near the speed limit. Usually if I am in the left half of the road I am going much faster than the flow of traffic so see no point in swerving in and out just to have to get back in anyway, slows you down.

[kphoger]

It gets tiresome having to change lanes constantly to pass every yutz going near the speed limit.

Hold on, let me go borrow someone's violin.

[webny99]

And a quick heads up: "8-lane freeway"  means eight lanes of traffic, four in each direction.

It might seem at first glance that "two-lane highway" might mean two lanes in each direction, and that it's just as commonsense.

I've never thought that "two-lane highway" meant two lanes per direction. A two-lane highway has two lanes total.

[NWI_Irish96]

Sometimes it's not just about whether you are passing or not, but more comfortable having no cars in front of you. It gets tiresome having to change lanes constantly to pass every yutz going near the speed limit. Usually if I am in the left half of the road I am going much faster than the flow of traffic so see no point in swerving in and out just to have to get back in anyway, slows you down.

If you just passed a car and you are already coming up on another one that you'll pass within a minute, yes, stay where you are, but not moving over because you're likely to pass someone again in a few minutes is lazy and unsafe.

[Mike2357]

More like a few seconds if I am going 20 mph faster than them. It's also safer to have two directions to move if you have to all of a sudden change lanes. Even on a 20 lane road, the 2nd right lane is safer than the far right.

[jakeroot]

It's also safer to have two directions to move if you have to all of a sudden change lanes.

I assume the sudden lane change is being caused by another driver with the same mentality hogging the middle lane...

[NWI_Irish96]

More like a few seconds if I am going 20 mph faster than them. It's also safer to have two directions to move if you have to all of a sudden change lanes. Even on a 20 lane road, the 2nd right lane is safer than the far right.

If you're in an urban area, maybe, but in a rural area with exits every 5 miles or less, there's really no such thing as a sudden need to change lanes if you're paying attention.

[SEWIGuy]

Sometimes it's not just about whether you are passing or not, but more comfortable having no cars in front of you. It gets tiresome having to change lanes constantly to pass every yutz going near the speed limit. Usually if I am in the left half of the road I am going much faster than the flow of traffic so see no point in swerving in and out just to have to get back in anyway, slows you down.

If you just passed a car and you are already coming up on another one that you'll pass within a minute, yes, stay where you are, but not moving over because you're likely to pass someone again in a few minutes is lazy and unsafe.

It really depends on the traffic.  Cruising in the left hand lane if there is no one coming up on you, even if you aren't going to pass another car in five minutes, is neither lazy nor unsafe.

[1995hoo]

I can see a reason for cruising in the left lane on certain highways with two lanes in each direction* where the right lane is in particularly bad shape or takes a heavy pounding due to truck traffic or the like, as long as you promptly move out of the way prior to a faster vehicle catching you from behind. Quebec's Autoroute 15 heading north from the US border was often that sort of a road–I haven't been on it recently to know whether it's been repaved, but on all of my most recent trips that way, the right lane was a washboard. That's a fair reason to use the left lane, traffic permitting of course.

*I would call those "four-lane highways," but it's clear from this thread that certain posters use their own different terminology, so I'm trying to avoid any possible ambiguity.

[jeffandnicole]

Sometimes it's not just about whether you are passing or not, but more comfortable having no cars in front of you. It gets tiresome having to change lanes constantly to pass every yutz going near the speed limit. Usually if I am in the left half of the road I am going much faster than the flow of traffic so see no point in swerving in and out just to have to get back in anyway, slows you down.

If you just passed a car and you are already coming up on another one that you'll pass within a minute, yes, stay where you are, but not moving over because you're likely to pass someone again in a few minutes is lazy and unsafe.

It really depends on the traffic.  Cruising in the left hand lane if there is no one coming up on you, even if you aren't going to pass another car in five minutes, is neither lazy nor unsafe.

Sure it is. It takes all the effort of flicking the turn signal arm and turning the steering wheel a fraction to move back into the proper lane.

More often than not, people become complacent and don't even realize someone is coming up on their rear. When they notice them, either the person has already initiated the pass themselves (as in the recent discussion we've had) or the other car is sitting behind the left lane hog, either closely (which means the hog is pissed the driver "came out of nowhere" and is tailgating for no reason) or is hanging a respectable distance back, (which the hog takes to believe he/she still has time to move over and isn't holding anyone up).

In all scenarios, the hog could've/should've been in the right lane to begin with.

[webny99]

It really depends on the traffic.  Cruising in the left hand lane if there is no one coming up on you, even if you aren't going to pass another car in five minutes, is neither lazy nor unsafe.

Sure it is.  ...

Yes, but I do think it's worth distinguishing between the two (lazy and unsafe). It is objectively lazy. However, it's not necessarily unsafe to be camping in the left lane. It's highly dependent on the context, including your speed and how much other traffic is around, if any.

But it doesn't really matter whether it's safe or not, because it's definitely lazy, and that's reason enough not to do it.

[SEWIGuy]

Sometimes it's not just about whether you are passing or not, but more comfortable having no cars in front of you. It gets tiresome having to change lanes constantly to pass every yutz going near the speed limit. Usually if I am in the left half of the road I am going much faster than the flow of traffic so see no point in swerving in and out just to have to get back in anyway, slows you down.

If you just passed a car and you are already coming up on another one that you'll pass within a minute, yes, stay where you are, but not moving over because you're likely to pass someone again in a few minutes is lazy and unsafe.

It really depends on the traffic.  Cruising in the left hand lane if there is no one coming up on you, even if you aren't going to pass another car in five minutes, is neither lazy nor unsafe.

Sure it is. It takes all the effort of flicking the turn signal arm and turning the steering wheel a fraction to move back into the proper lane.

More often than not, people become complacent and don't even realize someone is coming up on their rear. When they notice them, either the person has already initiated the pass themselves (as in the recent discussion we've had) or the other car is sitting behind the left lane hog, either closely (which means the hog is pissed the driver "came out of nowhere" and is tailgating for no reason) or is hanging a respectable distance back, (which the hog takes to believe he/she still has time to move over and isn't holding anyone up).

In all scenarios, the hog could've/should've been in the right lane to begin with.

It's not lazy because a lane change just isn't necessary.  And I pay attention when I drive so it's not unsafe either.

[kphoger]

It's also safer to have two directions to move if you have to all of a sudden change lanes. Even on a 20 lane road, the 2nd right lane is safer than the far right.

I disagree.  If I have a tire blowout, or if anything goes wrong with the engine, and I have to suddenly pull over on the shoulder, then it's safer to not have to cross a travel lane to get there.  And, in my experience, pulling over to the left shoulder is a bad idea:  they're generally quite narrower, and passing traffic is faster.  I've only had to so once or twice (most recently because I witnessed an accident and pulled over to check on the driver and call 9-1-1), and I don't recommend it.

As for needing space on both sides of you to avoid a collision, I'm really struggling to think of a single instance of my having had to suddenly swerve from the right lane but didn't have the right shoulder available for that purpose.  There have been plenty of times I've needed to swerve to the right, but I've always had pavement there waiting for me.

Cruising in the left hand lane if there is no one coming up on you, even if you aren't going to pass another car in five minutes, is neither lazy nor unsafe.

If no one is coming up on you, then you're a tree falling in a forest.  Nobody cares, because nobody is around to care.

It takes all the effort of flicking the turn signal arm and turning the steering wheel a fraction to move back into the proper lane.

More often than not, people become complacent and don't even realize someone is coming up on their rear.

This.  Much better to assume you'll eventually be negligent in checking your mirrors (because you're human), and just move right just to be sure.

When they notice them, either the person has already initiated the pass themselves (as in the recent discussion we've had) or the other car is sitting behind the left lane hog, either closely (which means the hog is pissed the driver "came out of nowhere" and is tailgating for no reason) or is hanging a respectable distance back, (which the hog takes to believe he/she still has time to move over and isn't holding anyone up).

Portion bolded for emphasis.  If a faster driver exhibits defensive driving by hanging back a proper following distance, then there's a good chance you don't even realize you're holding him up.  It shouldn't take someone riding your tailgate or going around on the right to make you jump back over to the right lane.

I can see a reason for cruising in the left lane on certain highways with two lanes in each direction* where the right lane is in particularly bad shape or takes a heavy pounding due to truck traffic or the like, as long as you promptly move out of the way prior to a faster vehicle catching you from behind.

I encounter exactly that situation a lot in Mexico, where the right lane gets pretty beat up by heavy trucks.  Sometimes driving on the shoulder is another option, but sometimes driving in the left lane is reasonable, and even turnpike doubles do so.  However, everyone moves back into the right lane whenever a faster vehicle approaches from behind.

I pay attention when I drive so it's not unsafe either.

I pay attention too.  But sometimes, because I'm human, I miss something.